LYDIA CORNELL: AFI Best Actress Nominee, People's Choice Award winner; Actor, Writer, Director, Producer; woman and children advocate; teen mentor, comedienne, talk show host, inspirational pubic speaker best known for her starring role on ABC's "Too Close for Comfort" as TV legend Ted Knight's daughter 'Sara'; HBO's Curb Your Enthusiasm, and over 250 shows, episodes and movies worldwide. Turns tragedy into comedy, life-saving issues for women and equal pay for equal work...
Wednesday, December 28, 2005
BLESSED ARE THE PEACE MAKERS * NARROW IS THE GATE
The kids are still out of school - so I'm sneaking away to post a quick item that I had written as part of an earlier blog. In memory of the tsunami victims: all these calamities, catastrophes and hurricanes show us the importance of loving and helping each other -- and helping those less fortunate. Tribal divisions and ethnic chauvinism seem so primitive. We can't survive without each other. It's also pretty clear that storing up material treasures on earth is useless. We are learning not to depend on material sustenance, but to depend on charity. Love for our fellow man -- there is nothing else worth talking about. And that is why the Gate is narrow: it's hard to love your enemies -- and I'm not just talking about terrorists; it's hard to love those people you can't stand to be in the same room with! With my relatives this weekend, I kept asking myself: "How can I be of love and service to people who are incredibly annoying?" Very few will make it through this gate of loving their enemies, not fighting, and embracing those morally bankrupt people who offend them. (I really have to forgive Bush!) But I want to start focusing on all the good we can do. (Although I have a riveting expose on this new breed of "Christian" coming out soon.) Look at this incredible universe – it would take a blind slug not to see God everywhere. This is heaven and it is here now, if we choose to see it. I was at a peacock farm with my kids, chasing peacocks all over the place -- and in the design of a peacock's feathers, you see God’s artistry. In the design of a Monarch butterfly or a baby's smile, you see heaven. Why do people debate whether or not God exists when God is simply LOVE? Who can argue with love, kindness, compassion? Asking to prove the existence of God is like asking to prove you love your kids. I actually believe that Einstein was on the cusp of proving God through science, for he said that 'goodness, truth and beauty are laws of the universe'; hence God and science are not mutually exclusive. I also love Wayne Dyer's statement that "you'll see it when you BELIEVE it" and "the antidote to depression is kindness". One act of kindness to another human being is an anti-depressant; it actually raises your serotonin levels. An observer of an act of kindness also gets a serotonin boost. If everyone in America did more love and service work, we wouldn't be thinking about ourselves so much, what we lack -- and we wouldn't be depressed. Depression is an epidemic in this country and the pharmaceutical companies love promoting our fears & obsessions. Tom Cruise said some very stupid things, some people need medication, but the way they're pushing drugs on us is criminal. Anyway, getting out of our self-centered fear by helping others works every time.
Hope everyone is having a great holiday; I have several articles in the works, a book and a new Brad Blog item which will be up soon. Rene - I love your name, sorry about the confusion. Also, my web designer is in the process of putting up new photos & DVDs for sale for charity and an 80's page of the bombshell pictures ABC put out.
My brilliant friend Chaz was there the other night and we were discussing how the world has changed and how odd it is that something we thought was a given -- these ideas I've been writing about -- make so much sense to us, but make so little sense to Bush-supporters -- and he said that if what I was saying wasn't the truth, it wouldn't upset so many people. Kind of like the film "Good Night and Good Luck" about Edward R. Murrow's battle with McCarthy. He also said that "a frog never jumps out of a pan if you turn the heat up slowly." Which is what the people in power are doing to middle-class Americans: turning the heat up and taking away our earnings, choices and freedoms in such gradual degrees that we barely notice until it's too late.
Received follow-up letters from Dennis Taylor of Phoenix, Arizona. I think this man is very intuitive -- which we are all capable of being when we open our minds.
"Dear Lydia, I have to share something that my wife said after reading your blog. Without sounding flakey…I’m convinced that my wife is correct and that this goes hand in hand with your statement regarding the next frontier being the center or the middle. We both have a strong internal sense of something impending that is difficult to explain. A feeling that many of us are going to be called to stand out for what is right and rescue the Constitution of the USA so that the country can get back to being a democracy. It seems like while America slept, we were slowly and silently robbed of democracy. The irony is the fact that so many people who call themselves Christian as well as conservative played a big role in America silently surrendering democracy to those who regard the constitution as a mere technicality to work around in order to promote their self-serving agenda’s. Respectfully, Dennis Taylor"
And though I cringe at self-promotion, the following letter is not so much about my blog as it about the truth people are hearing. The truth always upsets some people by the way. Throughout the ages, others have said these things in different ways before I did. But the following letter really touched me:
"I could not resist sending your blog page with my letter to many friends. What blows me away is how well it was received by some long time friends of mine who openly admit to be agnostic. I’ve never witnessed anything quite like that before as some of these folks have historically been some of the most open critics of religion and Christianity. I must admit that I never saw that coming. One of them even described tears coming out or their eyes while reading this and stating that your blog rekindled their hope for humanity. A hope that had been lost over the last 5 years." Best Regards and God Bless You & Your Family Dennis Taylor Phoenix, AZ
Prior post: I want to share an amazing letter I just received last night. But first: HAPPY HOLIDAYS, MERRY CHRISTMAS, HAPPY HANNUKAH, HAPPY KWANZAA, HAPPY DIWALI and GOD BLESS YOU ALL! I want to thank the hundreds of wonderful people who have sent me letters of encouragement and support. I especially want to thank Worfeus, for your wisdom and insightful commentary -- and for being a scholar of the Bible as well as every other book ever written. I am learning a lot from you. You are very truthful, and you're not afraid of ANYTHING! I'd also like to thank Rene, the lovely woman who prayed for our family and wrote such beautiful comments in this section, as well as Rebecca from Oklahoma, who left me a voice message & several supportive letters, and Jennifer the young woman from Minnesota who heard Ann Coulter speak at St. Olaf -- your letters all touched me so much. I have to mention Johnny Moo Moo, the atheist, whom I love too; he's so reasonable and balanced. I love that! I know this is unusual, but I'm adding to this post rather than create a new one because of time -- plus this one is chock full of current events. The kids are out of school and home for the holidays and driving me CRAZY with happiness! We are making gingerbread cookies and decorating every nook and cranny.
Okay, here's the letter:
Dear Lydia,
This might be a bit late in the making but I was so moved by your article regarding Ann Coulter, that I felt compelled to respond. You are to be commended for your courage in speaking the truth about Ann Coulter and hate mongers like her who somehow think that they are conservative people. A friend had sent me a link to another article on the Brad Blog and that was where I saw a link to your article. The more I read, the more I was drawn in by the content in your article. I’m sure that you already know this but I have to say it anyway. You are absolutely right in every point you made in that article and this world needs more people like you. God Bless You for Stating the Facts!!!
I have a hard time articulating just how much of a breath of fresh air your article was. As opposed to Ann Coulter’s hate mongering speeches that are designed to manipulate impressionable minds, your comments are something that Americans seriously need to be taken to heart. For the last five years, I have watched the Bush administration feverishly dismantle the very freedoms and liberties that make this nation great. At the same time, I’ve closely observed a very scary “us and them” kind of mentality that has been born and perpetuated by the Bush administration, much of the religious right wing of this nation, and vicious mouth pieces like Ann Coulter, Rush Limbaugh and Bill O’ Reilly.
As a Christian with a bachelor’s degree in the Bible, I learned rather early on that I had the God given spiritual gift of discernment. That gift can sometimes be as much of a curse as a blessing as I am always able to tell when people are either lying or telling the truth. Because of the fact that I can immediately interpret one’s intentions early on, it puts me in the minority and often times in unpopular situations as I’m often referred to as being “brutally honest”. It does not win any popularity contest but then…those with honesty and integrity never feel threatened when around me either. I knew Bush was lying to America regarding just about all the things he claimed he would do during his 2000 campaign. I also knew that he was lying to America during his very first televised speech when he was trying to convince America that we needed to wage war against Iraq. But I digress….
Tactics like posting your personal contact information on Ann Coulter’s web site are nothing more then the desperate act of someone who is void of any real depth or Christian substance. It was geared towards unleashing a bunch of hate mongering minions and sycophants upon you and your family and Christ Jesus himself would find that to be completely unacceptable. And those who call themselves conservatives should be ashamed of themselves when they justify Ann Coulter’s pusillanimous activities and remarks as being satirical. True conservative people do not engage in the type of conduct or tactics that she and those like her demonstrate on a regular basis. I am convinced that if Jesus Christ almighty were to come pay us a visit incarnate today, he would have one thing to say to many of the religious right-wing and republican party as well as a result of the mess they have made. “Be gone!!! I never knew any of you!!!” (Note from LYDIA: Even Christ admonished the pharisees this way, calling them a "BROOD OF VIPERS".) It sounds harsh to put it that way, but I am not going to mince words when I see these very same people wearing Christianity as a shield to ward off criticism when their anti-Christian conduct and anti-constitutional agenda’s are exposed in the light of God’s word and Christ’s example. These very same people who did everything in their power to rake Bill Clinton over the coals for an indiscretion with a Whitehouse Intern seem to have absolutely no problem with telling lies, half truths and hiding Bush’s sins and crimes. It’s a sad but true statement when ya consider the fact that Nixon got impeached for things far less offensive then the crimes that Bush is flat out guilty of both locally and internationally.
I’m concerned about the future of this country as a result of the dangerous trend of growing lies and deception that the Bush administration and vicious mouthpieces like Ann Coulter and Bill O’ Reilly. Over the course of the last five years, people like this have effectively redefined the word “liberal” to mean a lot of things that it simply is not and never was. Liberal is actually a very positive and progressive term when examined under the light of honesty. However, in the hands of corrupt people like Bush, O’ Reilly and Coulter, it has been used to mislead the American public. Regretfully, they have used the stupidity of most Americans to believe that liberal is something bad, immoral, baby murdering and anti-Christian.
I wish that I could take credit for the following lyric excerpt from a particular song by the band Rush as it is so very true today. One would think that it might have come from a book depicting American society during the Salem Witchcraft Trials. Regretfully, it describes the “mob rules” mentality that the self-serving Ann Coulters of the USA like to incite in impressionable minds who like to be told what to think.
--“Quick to judge, quick to anger, slow to understand. Ignorance prejudice...and fear walk hand-in-hand”.
In any case, my wife and I are 100% supportive of you and everything you said in your article. Your article was uplifting and it is nice to know that we are not alone as we observe the very same dangerous and destructive things that you were brave enough to expose. I wish that there were more people like you in this world. I regularly hear the same hateful responses from Bush & Coulter sycophants stating that they won and we lost and we should get over it. Those of us who see the truth realize that this is incorrect and the ones who lost were Americans and it has been at the price of democracy. It grieves me that my son and others who are only children right now are going to wind up paying the price for the sins of such corrupt self serving individuals. That’s just not right.
God Bless you and your family!
Respectfully,
Dennis Taylor, Phoenix Arizona
You know when you have a sixth sense about things? Well, this may sound bizarre to some of you (and quite common to others) but I actually get a knife-pang in my gut when something is wrong, even distant things outside my sphere of knowledge or interest. Right after the 2004 presidential election, I had this severe pang -- a terrifying gut instinct. I knew beyond a shadow of a doubt that fraud had occurred, that electronic voting machines were rigged. A lot of people suspected this, but I KNEW there was electronic voting fraud in putting Bush in the White House. This wasn't wishful thinking, believe me I know the difference. And now it is proven to be true. Everyone who thought this -- and there were millions of us -- were instantly dismissed as crazy conspiracy-theorists. Even John Kerry was mysteriously acquiescent in accepting defeat. Why won't the mainstream media really pick this story up and bring it out to the people of America? Maybe it's too disturbing to even fathom that this could happen in our cherished democray -- and it is still tinged with that "conspiracy theory" label. But you'd think this would be front page news -- especially in light of the right-wing's rampant corruption, and the illegal spying on American citizens. And given the obvious propaganda of the Fox network, does anything seem past these people in the Bush administration or in the Republican party? You can read all about the voter-fraud scandal at BRAD BLOG
Heard someone mention to Tim Russert the other night that Bush's poll numbers were up last week (before his Oval Office address last night) simply because Bush is not talking about Katrina. This subject is off-limits because it makes his poll numbers go down. The White House will not remind anyone about Katrina, and as long as they stay off that subject, Bush can gain some ground. So they are deliberately not mentioning it! Nice Christmas present for those poor people down in New Orleans. Now that the mainstream media is focused on Barney and Mrs. Beasley or whoever the other Bush dog's name is, they don't have to shoot footage of things that depress everybody: the continuing chaos and poverty down in New Orleans. Those poor souls; God Bless them.
Narrow is the gate, not wide. Please read Craig Unger's article in the December 2005 issue of Vanity Fair -- an astounding, mind-altering article called "Apocalypse Soon! Evangelical Christians, the Rapture and the Big Business of Being Born Again" For years I had heard about this, but thought it was highly improbable. Now here is the hard evidence AMERICAN RAPTURE I believe this explains why we're in this mess in Iraq. It's the key to how this administration came to power.
For years I've been embarrassed to say out loud that I am a Christian -- because very un-Christian-acting fanatics and televangelists like Pat Robertson and Jerry Falwell have made a mockery of the most loving, peaceful force that ever came to man -- but now more than ever, I feel we must turn this lunacy around. It is frightening what these people have done to our country -- and there are so many of them, that theirs is certainly not the Way. It is too wide. And I know this is true with every cell of my being. Remember, it is how we treat "the least among us" that counts. Tim LaHaye, Jerry Falwell, Jesse Helms, Pat Robertson, Tom DeLay, Ralph Reed, George H. W. Bush and W -- this cabal which includes top executives and CEOs is just part of the C.N.P., the New Right -- and they represent the EXACT OPPOSITE of Christ's teachings! They've taken their obsession with morality and their fear of Hollywood to such an extreme, they've lost compassion for their fellow man. Many of them have become homophobic, disdainful of the poor and cruel toward any human who does not meet their rigorous standards -- while ignoring their own pride -- the character defect which annoyed Christ the most! The news footage of looting in New Orleans gave them fuel for their bigotry. Can't they see that the economic system that created such a wide chasm between the haves and the have-nots has created Les Miserables! A culture that constantly advertises salvation through Nintendo, i-Pods and Plasma TVs creates an insatiable craving for stuff. Yes looting is bad, but looting pension funds is worse. Looting votes through Gerrymandering is worse. And to think the minimum wage is still only $6.75 an hour, while Congress votes lifetime pensions for themselves up into the six figures. Reaganomics and the trickle down theory didn't work because of the greed of the corporate executives, who take such a large slice of the pie they have to eliminate the actual workers! Churches are not tithing enough to support the needy. A society must take care of the "least among us." Then we will see amazing things begin to happen. And I'm not talking about a welfare state, by the way.
A lot of you already know about the power of this group of pharisees: they are very organized and already have millions of Americans manipulated into this self-serving, rapture-obsessed, un-Christlike agenda -- and this is how they took our beautiful country, our beautiful democracy away from us. You have to read this article. And our president, calling himself a Christian -- had a perfect chance to show our enemies how Christianity works, but he chose the opposite path.
** The idea of "Christians" obsessing about the rapture and spurring on war in the Middle East (all Jews have to be in Israel) to hurry along Christ's return (and subsequently destroying all Jews in Israel) is an absolutely dangerous, sophomoric, misguided idea. Certain of these fanatics and evangelical preachers should quiet their hearts and go within -- where God is -- to find the truth. And if fundamentalists take the bible literally, FUNDAMENTALLY -- then why not take Christ's very words literally? LOVE ONE ANOTHER. The kingdom of heaven is within. Looking down on sinners is not your job. (Even though, yes, I am looking down on you, which is not very Christian of me, I know.) But I can honestly say I've cleaned house and conquered a few of my major demons. I was a complete idiot before -- selfish and greedy. And I work on those things still, every day. Character change is it's an inside job. And pride (the sins of the Pharisees) is the sin Jesus spoke about more than any other sin
There's a great website I discovered called Slacktivist:Left Behind with insightful, hilarious critique of the LaHaye-Jenkins "Left Behind" books, which I think are not only sophomoric and badly written, but false and dangerous! By the way, there was a time when I was a Republican -- but that was before I got sober. It was when I was in my ego-stage: very self-centered and full of myself. And in fear of losing what I had or not getting what I wanted. As we shed our ego, we become more compassionate toward others, more concerned about social justice and saving our earth and helping other flawed humans -- not judging them, but helping them. There's a famous cartoon I saw shortly after the election: I can't remember the exact words, but two pot-bellied rednecks are standing around drinking beer, happy with being red: "Well, my son lost his legs in Iraq, veteran benefits got cut, lost my pension plan to Enron, got laid-off down at the plant, they canceled my health insurance, Bush vetoed stem cells which would have saved my daugther's life from brain cancer -- BUT I'M SURE AS HELL GLAD THOSE TWO GAYS DOWN THE STREET CAN'T GET MARRIED!" By the way, the marriage contract is a private contract between two individuals. How does it hurt anyone to let two souls honor their monogamy by allowing them the dignity any other human has a right to? I am heartsick at the bigotry I see in America today.
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Holy geez Lydia, it sounds like your ready to declare war on all this injustice. I agree with you for most of it and I would be very impressed if you could put a 1% dent in any of it. Nevertheless, I do support you.
ReplyDeleteIf I meet ten Christians, I consider myself extremely lucky if one turns out to be half real; my experience has shown that they use this title as a disguise for their own benefit only.
Johnny moo moo
aethist
Lydia -- everything you say here is the truth. I used to be a Christian, but I left the church because of what I saw there. You're right, these people are the exact pharisees Jesus talks about. But there are some really good people who love Christ also. Keep telling the truth and maybe you can bring some people back.
ReplyDeleteJames
I agreed with you until you compared African-Americans with gays. There is no comparison and I am offended you went there.
ReplyDeleteWell, it wasn't long ago when it ws considered immoral, if not illegal, for blacks and whites to marry one another. The gay marriage thing is really no different, for all intents and purposes. The point being that it should be up to two individuals to determine if they should marry. It shouldn't be up to others to determine that for them, regardless of sex, race, religion or anything else.
ReplyDeleteI've always found the uproar over gay marriage to be utterly silly. Whether or not gays can marry each other has no bearing whatsoever on heterosexual marriage. That's why some of these amendments that are called "The Defense of Marriage Act" are sheer nonsense.
I sometimes will kid my wife that, once gay marriage is allowed, I'm going to divorce her and marry that handsome hunk down the street. Could anything be more ludicrous?!
I have a number of friends who happen to be gay or lesbian. Why should I be legally entitled to marry someone because I'm a man and I'm heterosexual, but they are not allowed to do so because the person they want to marry is of the same gender? Does it somehow impact me if they CAN marry? No. I'd be happy for them.
I once heard someone say that life is too short and too hard for most people that why should it matter WHOM we should happen to fall in love with. Just finding that person and committing to that person should be a wonderful thing.
Yet, as we know, there are people who feel threatened by it for some unknown reason. It's sad.
A friend of mine observed that gays speak about Republican in laws in the same way Republicans in laws speak about them. In hushed tones, with a sense of shame, comments like "as long as they don't try to impose their lifestyle on us..." pepper the conversation.
ReplyDeleteIf you'd like a Christian church you'd feel comfortable in, please check out MCCLA.org. Trust me.
Oh my goodness - I agree. 'let the one without sin cast the first stone.' 'Jesus is to be the only judge so judge not unless you too shall be judged' oh and one of my other favorites that people don't bring up to often...You all have got to check this one out (The version of the Bible I have is "Children's Bible New Revised Standard Version")from Revelation 22: 18-19
ReplyDelete"18
I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: if anyone adds to them, God will add to that person the plagues described in this book;
19
if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God will take away that person's share in the tree of life and in the holy city, which are described in this book." So with that said I wonder why people keep trying to add more to it than what is said. Interesting ay?
Good night all. Good night sweet Lydia.
Your friend,
Rene
Lydia:
ReplyDeleteThe other night it disturbed me to learn the trouble Coulter has caused for you and your family and later that evening I almost went to bed without reading a bit from the bible, but my soul kept being urged to read a little scripture before going to sleep. I sat up and prayed asking God to show me what He wanted me to read. I opened up the Bible at random and it just happened to open up on Proverbs Chapters 12 & 13. Granted I'm reading from the Children's Bible, but its awesome. You should check it out when you have time. To me it was like God was saying, 'Son, I know you're concerned for Lydia and her family - and have watched her career flourish since Too Close For Comfort, but don't worry she & her family are in good hands - I'm watching over them.' It was also like He was agreeing that you're on the right track with all that you're doing too, because it's all for the good and well-being of mankind. I found it to be very moving and inspirational. Truly awesome. Well, it may seem odd to you but I just had to share that with you.
Take care and good night again. :D
Rene
Jesus Christ Lydia, take a break,up the Prozac or Paxil.Better yet read Ann Coulter's new columm.
ReplyDeleteEven though I do not agree with all of Lydias beliefs, her ultimate intentions are that of a decent and good human being. Sometimes war may be necessary and unavoideable, however, peace is certainly not a dirty word.
ReplyDeleteGuilty of nothing except standing up for what she believes in,(right or wrong) I suggest it is extremely low and infantile to place attacks upon her personal character by bringing up references to her past and attempting to relate this to who she is now.
Johnny moo moo
80's child
atheist
war historian
Lydia, you're awesome and one of the true Christians that I wish there were more of.
ReplyDeleteI think you really hit the nail on the head when you said you were a republican but that was when you were full of yourself. That sums them up perfectly to me.
I just want to add that this "war on Christmas" is the biggest joke I've ever heard.
I think Jesus would be the first to wish everyone happy holidays because he wouldn't want anyone feeling left out or like they aren't as good as Christians. HOWEVER, I say Merry Christmas and will continue to do some simply because it's what I'm celebrating, and if I have a Jewish friend or one of another faith I'll wish them a happy holiday greeting however they wish it to be.
Its said, but there is no CHRIST in christian anymore.
Actually I agree with the republicans on the Gay issue....I mean isn't it obvious that homosexuality is a choice. And that these people are just attention seeking when they decide to come out because they crave negative attention? I agree that the biggest threat to my family is that Bob and Fred in NYC want to get married, and not that my 7 year old autistic son can't get the services he needs in this Christian nation. So if I have to declare Chap 13 just to pay my other bills...so be it if it'll keep those 2 from getting married.
ReplyDeleteSorry...i just needed to be a sarcastic smart ass for a day
Happy Festivus!!!
KAN12
Lydia I can't tell you enough how your words are changing my life. I had lost hope of ever finding a Christian who made sense -- they are all so focused on promoting their version of God it's very pushy and "holier-than-thou" with a lot of shoulds instead of love and acceptance. A lot of the mega churches seem to be into group-think and they are so in love with "being a Christian" they totally miss the point -- but I will say some churches do a lot of missionary work. So I applaud them for that. Keep telling the truth, the world needs it!
ReplyDeleteLydia : Being its very close to Christmas, I would like to suggest that you share some of your humorous side with us ........afterall, you are a comedian. And the "About" section does mention comedy.
ReplyDeleteBut be careful, I am a heckler.
Johnny moo moo
Rene, it really bothers me when someone drags out that old "judge not" saw. If you read the entire passage Jesus is not telling us NOT to judge, (to the contrary) he is telling us TO judge, but to do it FAIRLY.
ReplyDelete(the part about removing the mote from your own eye)
As to gay marriage, Jesus said love the sinner hate the sin. And homosexuality is condemned as sin. So by advocating gay marriage you are not only condoning sin but actually promoting it above gods laws. I guess we're all so Christian now we can tell Jesus where he went wrong?
As to the war on Christmas or Christianity, all I can say is may you all be blessed by the "Holiday Infant".
It seems to me that homosexuality and abortion are the two hot-button issues that "Christians" care about: the Pat Robertson-type Christians. Does it seem strange to anyone that these people organize protests about homosexuality and abortion, but don’t call for protests and marches against greed, gossip, divorce, adultery, lying or self-righteous pride? Maybe it’s just me. (From Lewis B. Bell III - bible.org)
ReplyDeleteIt’s clear in the Bible that the message of Jesus and his followers to the sinful world is one of love and forgiveness, not one of condemnation and confrontation. Jesus himself said he did not come to condemn but to save. He never told us to judge others EVER.
But you might be saying, “Yes, the message is all about forgiveness. But these people don’t know that they need forgiveness and they won’t know unless I tell them.” You know what? The Bible says that job belongs to someone else. (Leave judgment and vengeance to God)
It’s the Holy Spirit’s job to convince people that they are guilty and need forgiveness. That’s not our job.
We should worry about our own sins and stop looking at everyone elses'. In fact, until you have no sin, you have no right to judge another -- and that's what Christ meant when he said, "Let he who is without sin, cast the first stone." No one in this earthly life is without sin. We are to love our fellow man, especially our "enemies" -- those sinners we are so focused on.
Hey to Anonymous who said Jesus said to Judge others: WRONG!! I don't know what Bible you're reading but no where does it say you are to judge others. That's just your way of justifying intolerance. And in fact, the only people who will not be saved are the ones who are condemning others: the ones who are unkind and exclude groups they don't approve of and who judge! The ONLY people Jesus kept mentioning as being completely full of sin were the religious leaders who were in power - BECAUSE THEY JUDGED OTHERS AND WERE HYPOCRITES, AND WERE UNKIND TO THE SINNERS!! In case you are missing something: Jesus hung out with the sinners, prostitutes, thieves. They were the ones in need of help and their hearts were open. The leaders hearts were too hardened by arrogance, power and wealth.
ReplyDeleteUh, I'm reading the Christian bible. Which one are you reading?
ReplyDelete"Hypocrites! You can discern the face of the sky and of the earth, but how is it you do not discern this time? Yes, and why, even of yourselves, do you not judge what is right?"
Luke 12:56
“Do not judge according to appearance, but judge with righteous judgment.”
John 7:24
Basically, the lord is saying not to judge HYPOCRITICALLY. Only Jesus can discern what is in the hearts of men, but IF done righteously we are to judge actions. We are to judge in the spirit of helping, not of being vindictive or mean.
Do you think you will be saved when your "tolerance" allows your fellow man to continue to sin and not receive the kingdom of God?
Yes, many of the religeous leaders at that time were hypocrites. Not because they judged others, or were "unkind" or even wealthy, but because of their SELF righteousness and arrogance, they judged HYPOCRITICALLY.
Hence the part about removing the plank from your own eye before attempting to remove the speck from your brothers eye.
Jesus "hung out" with sinners, protitutes and theives in an attempt to bring them to salvation.
How will you do this when you will not see (judge) their need?
And if you cannot see clearly (righteously) you can't help them anyway, and hanging out with them will do your spirit more harm than good.
And if you can't swallow that, try this:
Sin is evil, the opposite of good.
Where in the bible does it say we are to "tolerate" evil and allow it to grow in our midst?
Furthermore, another saw I get tired of hearing about is "intolerance". With the exception of a very few psychos who seem to be in every group, most of us are VERY tolerant.
Tolerance, to tolerate, to put up with something we don't accept. We don't kill everyone we disagree with or even put them in prison and torture them. I'd say we're VERY tolerant. What we refuse to do is openly ACCEPT groups we disagree with, and therein lies the rub eh?
Your idea of "tolerance" is fascist.
Eric - If its your job to tell everyone in society that they are sinning, then you have a full time job. I hope you're outside Las Vegas or parts of Kentucky in front of the strip clubs with picket signs. Do you also disapprove of half-naked women on TV in lingerie ads & music videos? I hope you are boycotting Paris Hilton and Carl's Jr. And since divorce is the only sin (besides pride & tax collecting) that Jesus ever mentions -- why aren't you boycotting divorce or the IRS or Garth Brooks, Amy Grant, Pamela Anderson, Britney Spears & Jessica Simpson who are all divorcing and remarrying constantly and making a sham out of marriage -- and all the stars like Jessica Alba who pose suggestively on the covers of FHM magazine? Not to mention Playboy. Why don't you boycott those publications for promoting porn and soft-porn for our teenage daughters?
ReplyDeleteworf,
ReplyDeleteIf you're gonna quote it, quote the whole thing:
"Judge not, that ye be not judged. For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again. And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye? Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye? Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye" (Matthew 7:1-5)
Then try to understand what it means:
Read this again carefully. Notice that it is addressed to a hypocrite!-not to those who sincerely want to discern whether a teacher or teaching is true or false to God's Word. And instead of being a prohibition against honest judgment, it is a solemn warning against hypocritical judgment. In fact, the last statement of this Scripture commands sincere judgment-"Then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye." If we take a verse or a part of a verse out of its setting, we can make the Word of God appear to teach the very opposite of what it really does teach. And those who do this cannot escape the judgment of God for twisting His Word (2 Peter 3:16). Let this be a warning to us never again to take a text of Scripture out of its context.
Many who piously quote, "Judge not," out of its context, in order to defend that which is false to God's Word, do not see their own inconsistency in thus judging those who would obey God's Word about judging that which is untrue to the Bible. It is tragic that so much that is anti-Scriptural has undeservedly found shelter behind a misuse of the Scripture just quoted. The reason the professed church of Christ is today honeycombed and paralyzed by satanic Modernism is because Christians have not obeyed the commands of God's Word to judge and put away and separate from false teachers and false teaching when they first appeared in their midst. Physical health is maintained by separation from disease germs. Spiritual health is maintained by separation from germs of false doctrine. The greatest peril of our day is not too much judging, but too little judging of spiritual falsehood.
and to anonymous,
ReplyDeleteI suppose you think since I can't be everywhere I should be nowhere?
Sometimes you just have to start with your own little corner of the world my friend.
And I wasn't trying to come off as arrogant, that would be against the point I was making.
And the point is we MUST judge evil in order to keep ourselves separate from it.
Eric: I am no bible expert, but your point seems to make sense, however, everyone has their own version of what they believe evil is, therefore, can anyone accurately DEFINE evil?
ReplyDeleteJohnny moo moo
Worfeus: LOL big time:) I hope your not saving a spot for me on the bottom grill of this fish fry and I thought you said their were mansions, LOL? And would I ever like to know who your reliable sources are?
ReplyDeleteErics statement: " We are to judge in the spirit of helping, not of being vindictive or mean". This seems very reasonable to me.
Johnny moo moo
Ah come on....enough of this Jesus crap! I came here to see some T & A!
ReplyDeleteThis Worfeus Character is hilarious. The post that Eric responded to was exactly the same post that Worfeus used to respond to Eric's refutation. Eric kicked your butt seriously.
ReplyDeleteWorfeus the only difference between Eric and yourself, is that you have an endless well of "blather" energy. You rehash, rehash, and rehash.
Then when you keep blathering, you announce yourself the winner.
I'm sorry....Eric kicked your butt with fact and scripture. He showed how you use it when it's for your absurd arguments, and showed how you denounce or change it's meaning when it's against your arguments.
"Christ made it clear that judging each others actions was the mistake, which is the beam and mote reference, which I could go on and on about."
ReplyDeleteMore blather....Eric answered this in-depth, something you seem to keep ignoring. Taking the scripture out of it's original contexts, switching small words, leaving out entire passages is exactly what he's talking about and exactly what you are doing here.
"Judgement was something to be used sparingly with regards to each other, and unrighteous judgement was condemned."
Where does it say "sparingly"? You are making a complete ass of yourself here.
"For instance, criticizing someone who is gay, while endorsing the killing of tens of thousands, now theres a good mote and beam comparison."
Lord, another anti-war goon. War casualties does not equal MURDER. If someone can take something out of context like the Bible though, I can sure see how you'd twist meanings of simple words that are available on Merriam Webster online 24/7. Maybe if you do a little reading you will understand the long term benefit here. Also, if you are whining and sobbing now about 2,000 American deaths, imagine what you would have said to FDR.
"You probably still think Jesus was a carpenter. :|"
This is just stupid, Eric posted an ENTIRE scripture in it's entire true factual context and you try and insult him (when liberals are insulting - you know you've already won).
"So see, we agree. I believe we should be able to judge good from evil, and so did Jesus. But if your "judgement" skills don't show you the wolf in sheeps clothing Bush and the so called Christians who support him are, then I think you better adjust that beam in your eye a little more."
This is the best! Your biblical interpretations of "evil" and "discerning" are just as biased as Howard Dean/Barbara Boxer/Nancy Pelosi's views on foreign policy. "We agree that Saddam was evil, but I'm right and you're wrong, and he wasn't a threat, but I am glad we removed him, we just should have done it in a more peaceful way".
Here you are no different. "yes we can judge evil, but I am going to falsely characterize GWB as a murderer who blows people away and stands over them grinning while wearing a tee-shirt that says "I've got the power", and it's only okay to judge evil when it is "invented" (kind of like constitional rights to privacy for late-term abortionists) by whining liberals like myself".
LOL. Worfeus, you are serving as a typical liberal hypocrite, accept now you are just doing it biblically instead of politically. You lie (one of the Commandments-yes those ten rules in the "beginning" of the Bible) about the context of war and compare it to killing in cold senseless blood when indeed you know there are goals in Iraq that have been met.
Liberals will never change. I suppose I should be greatful that people like Worfeus (Lydia's pet stalker) are ensuring that the 2008 election results will certainly serve in the country's best interests.
I'm telling you, the internet is driving liberals more and more insane.
I really hope you are impressing Lydia (better yet I hope it's worth it),...one day, you'll have to answer to God himself. You best start preparing your summation.
Im not 100% sure, but I think that last anonymous post was Ann Coulter; I can tell by the writing style. (T&A)
ReplyDeleteAnyways, Worfeus, your last statement was explained very well and I can safely say I agree with this reasoning. We may discern, yet "Judge not, that ye not be judged". COOL, however, cant say Ive met too many people who live by this!
Life is one big, fat, huge, juicy catch 22 and this has always bugged me, however, theres no doubt this was extremely clever.
And you never know, the bottom grill could break and you could be flipped up to the top?
Johnny moo moo
atheist..."Remember what the doormouse said"?
"And as for why I talk about the Bible. It's because you nazi sympathizing lunatics put your self up as the holy Christian Right, thats why dimwit."
ReplyDeleteMore philosophy from the biblical scholar - Worfeus!
This is the scripture:
"Judge not, that ye be not judged. For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again. And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye? Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye? Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye" (Matthew 7:1-5)
I'm not explaining it to you - because Eric already did and you've already ignored it once, as you probably - along with every other leftist unrealistic Cindy Sheehan type - ignored every word President Bush said tonight in his address that fully acknowledged every one of your allegations. He was polite, he accepted responsibility as Commander in Chief, he regrets faulty intelligence, but holds accountable EVERYONE including every prominent Democrat who thought the same thing. Now before you flip the coin - he (as well as myself) am still eternally grateful that a tyrant like Saddam Hussein is gone. HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS of skeletons and bodies recovered from mass graves....those mass graves are not being filled anymore. Iraq voted in majority - INCLUDING SUNNIS - 4 days ago in an overwhelming election to establish true democracy in Iraq.
"Don't come to me unless you got a little more ammo than that."
&
"Oh and BTW steviewonder, anytime, and I mean anytime, you want to debate anything biblical with me, consider WORFEUS at your service."
For starters, don't flatter yourself. It does not require "ammo" to defeat you in any debate.
I have debated MANY liberals on many "smear" sites to stand my ground on any issue. Regarding the Bible however, it is clear on every single thread you have copied and pasted specific words to mis-represent God's message. However, your true motivation for doing such is your apparent need to Bush bash (not to mention continued patrolling of this blog) and your antiwar babble. You don't care about "God's" word universally. You care about it to serve your goofy agenda to try and gather some new ground to debate from, and judging by your liberal leaders like Kerry and Dean with their arguments, or liberal college students that throw pies at Ann Coulter, Pat Buchanan, David Horowicz, etc...or stamp their feet, chant "You Suck", or play loud music to prevent Coulter from speaking, I cannot say that I blame you because I know and realize the base of your party, and their failure to produce a coherent argument that sticks, is failing in the political arena.
But just like liberal smear of Bush during the war, during Katrina, every trick like Cindy Sheehan and Kanye West ("George Bush doesn't care about black people"), this again is another example of liberals who are still feeling the burn of their sore loss from the 2000 elections.
Far be it for a conservative like myself to allege a "vast wing conspiracy" from the opposite side (I'll leave that for you liberals to allege to us - as you need it)but I think comparing the case against Bill Clinton (who actually led out with 17 convictions) compared to your baseless nonsense about Bush being a "murderer" is all you need to know to figure out what it is you are trying to do here.
Using the name of God for a political agenda is shameful. No matter what your biblical knowledge is, you cannot deny the fact that God is watching. You will stand in judgement for this someday, and it's only you in your heart that knows if you are doing this for the pure good of man kind, or to create a new branch of baseless debate for the insane left to balance on. Only you truly know that.
One thing Ann Coulter was totally right about in a discussion with Alan Colmes (a liberal) in regard to idiot college students that prevent her from speaking by shouting her down, and liberal smear sites that want to oppress speech - was her assertion that liberals like himself, Bill Maher, Joe Lieberman, Zell Miller, and Pat Cadell have all got to go off and start their own party.
You are destroying liberals and the liberal movement with this nonsense. Anybody with a brain can read througn it. When liberals lose the next Presidential election - it will be because of the arguments put forth like these.
And before you shoot back your nonsense about "You and the Christian right are saying this and that", let it be clear that I do not see anything on this Earth like war as grounds for Biblical discussion. In other words, I (nor has Jerry Falwell) used the word of God to explain the big picture of why we are in Iraq. Bush got through his entire speech tonight without mentioning anything to that effect. Try rebutting it doing the same thing. I dare you.
ReplyDeleteYou're setting up a straw man argument - just thought I'd burn it down before you waste your energy building it.
"Jerusalem -- President Bush told two high-ranking Palestinian officials that he had been told by God to invade Afghanistan and Iraq and then create a Palestinian state to bring peace to the Middle East, they recall during a documentary on Middle East peace that airs next week in Britain"
ReplyDeleteThis was an ALLEGED statement ALLEGED by Nabil Shaath (an Arab looney with an agenda - sort of like a liberal). A statement that has been denied by the White House and ALSO DENIED by Palestinian leader Mahmoud Abbas who was also present at the Jordan Summit that occured about two years ago (this is where Bush allegedly made the statement).
Wow Worfeus, it might have been a little bit more convincing if you had used the name of the goon who actually ALLEGED it, rather than a liberal news reporter who couldn't wait to report it to liberal boobs who are starving for more anti Bush information.
Eric's post was articulate and informative. He did not use the word of God to politicize anything, he posted the entirety of the verse in it's context and explained it to you.
YOU ARE THE ONE who misrepresents the Bible to make political allegations against George W. Bush...on the basis of a phony quote no less. Again, I know why you are doing it, it's just another liberal trick, but one that doesn't have much strength.
Bush has addressed this nation a million times (including last night) since the invasion. Using the speeches he made to us, why don't you search for a quote that he actually said for the basis of your argument here.
Debating the Bible is easy Worfeus. You have been an excellent teacher at showing how keeping words out, or the actual context of things can serve ANY agenda. That isn't very hard to do, people have been doing it for years. Hell, Muslims thinks that Allah told them to fly planes into our buildings killing 3,000 Americans, so it is possible to use religion to prove a stupid point when you twist it's context.
But I'd rather focus on the political end of this. The ONLY reason you are here is to promote an anti-Bush cause using a phony quote that he never made in the first place, to give credance and energy to the usual leftist empty arguments.
Read the part again about Zell Miller, Pat Cadell, Joe Lieberman, etc...all having to go off and start their own parties. You are ensuring that they will never stand another chance to sit in the White House ever again.
On the basis of what you have shown buddy, it looks like your entire party, let alone you individually, are the ones that need to come up with the ammo. My party is doing just fine.
"stevieitsawonderyoucanspell"
ReplyDeleteI think this is pretty indicative of your true "mission"
;-).
LOL, If you got nothing out of my posts, (well you got nothing out of Eric's) then you are a nut. LOL.
ReplyDeleteOne that is so far consumed by his own rhetoric that he cannot see past Cindy Sheehan's tie-dyed shirts she wore during the antiwar rallies.
I proved that your arguments against Bush are phony because it is NOT A FACT that Bush said those things.
I proved that not only the White House denied such, but also other Arab leaders who attended the summit denied it as well. YOU are the one so hungry for debate against Bush that you are accepting the words of Nabil Shaath to guide your rhetoric.
LOL, I don't need a pass from you. Stop flattering yourself. You are not one that needs to be "out-witted" by a Coulter/Einstein type. If I cared enough to write an essay on all of your nonsense I would do so. This particular quote from the Bible is all one needs to know to understand your biased poop. Eric may have copied and pasted a THOUGHT of someone else's that articulated his OWN thoughts on it. However, the SCRIPTURE in it's entirely debunks your arguments WITHOUT the commentary on it. The end of it, Eric's post provided more information on the verse and explained it in it's TRUE context, where you only used ONE LINE from the verse to support your line of rhetorical crap.
Sadly Worfeus, I can tell you aren't a Christian. You're not telling me anything new. A christian would not use pieces of Bible verses to promote liberal rhetoric. LOL.
But the thought is funny:
"I'm not a christian, but I'm going to use the Bible to make points"...
You coming back with insults each time is pretty indictive of how my "numbskull" comments have gotten to you.
You are a liar! That's it. Just like Bill Clinton. A perfect liberal for sure. You lied about Bush, and the MAIN STRUCTURE of your argument is destroyed with one sentence of fact:
That Bush NEVER said that, and conservatives are arguing with fact and logic, not twisted Bible verses.
Do your party some good, and quiet down ;-).
He's not my friend you boob, I don't run from the fact that he may of copied and pasted a thought of someone else's.
ReplyDelete(This proves you aren't reading as I stated this in my last post to you)
What I am standing by is the ENTIRE scripture in it's FULL CONTEXT that you keep erasing.
You are the one that cannot hook and sink anyone with your factless blather LOL. Eric really got you going and it appeared that I did as well. Haha.
In order to clean a clock (or anything for that matter) you need good cleaning supplies. Blather is not clean - it's sort of like that air spray that has a temporary cover up scent.
Learn to disinfect my friend.
I gave you facts, Eric gave you facts...you are the one running.
If you stop running, and start acknowledging truth is when and only when your party can be productive again.
Ya know, truly live up to that "progressive" pitch you types keep giving.
;-).
In fact, what i will do is give you every factual statement made by Eric and myself, and show your responses to them, to show how you have endless dance energy.
Come on back, and give me some more material to add to it.
"Prove me wrong."
ReplyDeleteEric already did! He showed the verse (s) in their full context - IN ORDER - to show what the teachings were gearing toward.
Simplest words here: "If you are going to judge, make sure you're living by the standards you are setting forth".
People are allowed to use other's words to articulate their own opinions. I could use one of many of Ann Coulter's one-liners to drop three of your blather posts in ten seconds or less. You're allowed to do that.
You're doing it right now! Using the Bible to make a political NON EXISTENT point.
What you keep ignoring is that your ENTIRE structure for this whole argument is destroyed BY pointing out the fact that GEORGE BUSH NEVER factually said those things.
You are using an allegation from an Arab who is nutty. I know your people are prone to taking the word over Arabs as opposed to fellow Americans, but with reasonable thinking types, it does not work.
You insinuating that I support plagiarism is the same thing as saying that George Bush is a murderer.
I love now, you have decided yourself the "Blog Monitor" (ever hear of the expression "Get a Life"?) by asserting what is and what is not acceptable as Blog-friendly material LOL. You are so funny....is this the "meaning" of your life, or the pinnacle of your stature? Well, I guess it's a start.
You can call Eric a plagiarist if you would like, but the fact is, he pasted an entire context of Bible verses to prove that you were either A.) Missing something or B.) Purposely withholding from us to cover up the true context. I can only hope it is A. because simple error is okay, but to purposely manipulate the word of God is not only greasy and low, but it's also blasphemous. You will answer for this one day.
You can paint it all you want to produce your blather as compelling truth in regard to churning out ridicule to "murderous Presidents" and the "clock-cleaning" of individuals who have shot down every one of your arguments.
I can go all day though Worf, this is fun for me. All I have to do to stir you up is mention fact. I have not avoided ONE THING you have said.
You are clearly a liar in your respresntations of the Bible, and will stoop to such levels to produce more liberal bile :-).
Just don't cry when Hillary loses in 2008.
LOL.
ReplyDeleteWhy do you ignore? This is the same thing you are doing with Bush. You are literally MAKING UP arguments on my side to refute.
I do not contend that you ever said that(though i'm sure you will drone on for another 5 posts about how you "called me on it" and "cleaned my clock" when indeed I never insinuated what your thoughts were to what your interpretation was in terms of what Jesus thought regarding judgement and evil.).
WHAT I AM arguing with you about is your bold face basis of a crap argument. The entire foundation of your argument rests on the idea that GWB said "God sent me to Iraq" and that conservatives are "christian conservatives" that believe that God is the reason when indeed MOST of us are not advocating that at all.
Your only proof - thus far - has been a copy and paste of a liberal journalist who was quoting Nabil Shaath who's ALLEGATION was debunked and denied by the White House and other Arab leaders.
I'm also arguing with your "full context" theory of the Bible. You clearly took a PIECE of this section of the Bible without providing ALL of the context to prove something wrong.
You, my friend, are the one who got YOUR clock cleaned, and I know you can't stand it. But I'm telling you, the sooner you admit that these assertions of yours are claims made only by a scholarly "boob" are flawed and opinionated to serve the wacky left's agenda, the sooner your mind will open up to learn more - so that you can either A.) Convert to the common sense party or B.) Start to gain the ability to at least debate them honestly with unique substantial thought.
F for effort.
Sorry Worfeus.
Don't give up. I pray honestly that your heart is in the right place and that your first name is not really Mohammed.
Everything must have some form of balance and I vehemently stand by this. As I have stated previously, there are no absolutes - If there were, the world would be a perfect place.
ReplyDeleteTo say: "Law is an exact science" would be incredibly unbalanced. Could law ever be an absolute?
To say: "Never judge until you are perfect" is also incredibly unbalanced and is certainly no absolute. THERE MUST BE SOME FORM OF BALANCE IN THERE and I believe Eric pointed this out very well! I myself may judge another in the spirit of making myself a better human being which may actually benefit others as well. For instance, I will point out to my daughter that the guys sitting over there on the bench pushing needles into their arms are a bunch of lowlives. I am judging ,but, am I judging for the wrong reqasons?
In other words, how am I to learn if I am not allowed to judge until I am perfect? Therefore, the question must be: What is the appropriate and civil way of judging?
Although I have no absolute, I suggest that if someone is going to judge for whatever reason they feel justified, that one sits down and judges him/herself afterwards and silently points out their own imperfections. To judge silently in the spirit of improving oneself positively is also realistic. And to judge in the spirit of helping, not of being vindictive or mean is even better. However, to simply judge others vindictively, while not examining oneself, is truly evil.
Some forms of judging may be good, while some other forms just plain suck. Hence, balance.
Johnny moo moo
aethist
Wow!, did I start all that?
ReplyDeleteWorf, you'll have to excuse me. I'm a little new to "blogging". However, you are correct on one thing, I should have attributed the quote to the author. And Stevie is also correct in that I'm not quite the wordsmith you or he seem to be. I found that passage and it articulated my thoughts more accurately than I felt I could. Sorry, my bad.
Stevie is also correct on another point though, It may not have been my words but that doesn't make them any less valid. Maybe it makes them even more valid since the person who wrote them is a biblical scholar and I am not.
Who is this Lydia person and why does she hate Ann Coulter so much?
ReplyDeleteAn outta work actress who envies Ann's intelligence.
ReplyDeleteoh, and she tried to play coy with Ann in an attempt to outwit her and lost...lol
ReplyDeleteworf,
ReplyDeletegeez, get over it. Out of that whole post I used 2 paragraphs of his, and I already apologized for that.
I'd hate to see how much you whine over the big stuff....
Lydia Cornell is a humanitarian, a mother, a brilliant writer and comedienne - and ten times the human being Coulter is. And a TRUE CHRISTIAN!!
ReplyDeleteIn fact, she has had more effect on me with her words than any other Christian I have heard. I had given up hope of ever believing there were good Christians out there. Coulter is full of hatred. It's very sad. I've been silent too long.
Have you noticed that Ann Coulter and her types attack on a personal level anyone who tries to speak up -- but Lydia, being a class act, never attacks at all? She just points out the truth.
ReplyDeleteGuess the truth hurts.
Worfeus: Sorry! I hate that when I leave important stuff out. You did say to discern good and evil is OK as well as raising some other good points that have excellent substance and I did not forget this. Both you and Eric have raised excellent points that fit together and I sincerely agree with both of you.
ReplyDeleteJohnny moo moo
Worf,
ReplyDeleteHow about enlightening me on just how you were fooled? Because the words in 2 paragraphs weren't mine they aren't valid? plagerisim? I didn't realize I was up for a pulitzer or a cash reward for that post. Since a pat on the back seems to do so much for you here ya go, I'm S-O-R-R-Y, you're R-I-G-H-T I should have quoted the author.
Geez, I thought I only broke the rules of "Blogging", but now to find out I've corrupted my eternal soul!
(how non-judgemental of you, and how tolerant.....)
Worfeus: I certainly admire Eric for coming out and admitting he was wrong.
ReplyDeleteAlso, how did you know that these werent his words? Just curious? You must really get around.
Johnny moo moo
read that: He googled it.
ReplyDeleteWorfeus: Have you ever heard of Anthony B Herbert? He was a Colonel during the Vietnam war. We wrote several e-mails to each other a couple of years ago. Anyways, he wrote about the murder of innocent civilians and his refusal to take part in it; this was his downfall. He wrote his book in 1973 while the war was still going on. He also speaks of how corruption reached up into high levels of goverment. At one point he feared for his life and his family was threatened.
ReplyDeleteJohnny moo moo
Sorry Worfeus, I had to pick up my daughter at Air Cadets. I dont remember "Hunters moon killers moon" but I remember "Haunted Tank"LOL. That comic was cooler than the Fonz.
ReplyDeleteAlso, I think your a good JOE. And I value your non christian status.
Johnny moo moo
Worfeus, The only reason why you worry me is your post of the Associated Press and how Bush is picking and choosing the various victories and failures.
ReplyDeleteFirst of all, he has explained (this is my opinion as well - seeing as this is all happening in Iraq I have to make judgment based on the rest of the results - and of course the success of the election turnout) the desire for soldiers to leave Iraq. The fact is, in that same poll I believe (it was an ABC poll - if not it was another poll - lord all these darn polls) the question of if Iraqis felt that their military was capable now of handling their own job now of dealing with terrorist attacks when they occur...the result was overwhelming that the Iraqi people now believe (as they did not 1 year ago) that their military is strong enough to handle their own problems. Throw that fact in along with Al Jazeera playing weekly various leftist reports hailing from our own country that are labeling Bush and our troops as "murderers" or "terrorists" who invade peoples' homes in "the dark of the night" - or the belief that we are "creating terrorists" (as if these nuts never existed in the first place) - I can see how many of the younger idealist crowd of Iraq would believe that U.S. presence is causing more trouble. But the fact remains, Iraq would have not achieved the above military success without the training of U.S. soldiers.
The polls are questionable. ALL OF THEM...even the ones that talk in my favor. The only substantial facts we have are the elections, all three of them.
January 22, 2005: 8,456,266 Iraqis showed up amidst threats of insurgents to partake in their first democrat process ever.
October 15, 2005: 9,852,291 Iraqis
showed up amidst overwhelming violence by fearful insurgents that want Iraq to remain oppressed.
December 15, 2005: We are waiting for the final numbers, but we do know that over 10,000,000 showed this time; maybe over 11,000,000 (the ballots are still being counted). This time the violence was down, and Sunnis overwhelmingly participated.
The proof of progress in my opinion was the immediate "Al Queda in Iraq" opposition. If terrorists did not think that Iraq had anything to do with terrorism, why do you think they are there? If they thought they could conduct their "business" strictly out of Afghanistan - then why are they fighting so hard in Iraq? All along that was one point that I thought nobody ever made. That in and of itself - though why it does not get reported - or why more people don't discuss it - is enough for me to certify the entire terrorist network's fear of having an Iraq that is much like the United States.
All of this progress cost us 2,000+ lives. Though, it will save hundreds of thousands of Iraqis from being slaughtered by their own dictator who already slaughtered hundreds of thousands and forced others to live under oppression under various military regimes for the last 48 years. It will improve operations in the Middle East by having a strong ally in the Middle East to join forces in the future and battle other such regimes and networks. Many many lives will be saved. 9/11 (THOUGH IT HAD NOTHING DIRECTLY TO DO WITH IRAQ) itself was a lesson of what has happened as a result of trying to make evil people allies, it doesn't work to rub noses with them, and it does not work "giving peace a chance" with them either.
Lastly, you seem to throw around the term "Christian right" a lot. If Bill O'Reilly was "wrong" about biblical technicalities then so be it, send him an email, and he answers all of them on his show - even the non-flattering ones. However, why does this make him a member of the "religious right" now? Who is the “religious right” by the way? If do your own Lexus-Nexus and New York Times database searches and see how many articles contain the phrase "religious right" versus "atheist left". Also, pay attention to the type of people that the articles are describing. It’s never the same cadre of folk. Sometimes it’s Jerry Falwell, sometimes it’s a farmer from Kansas who wants lower tax rates (and believes in a higher being). In any case – without their being a clear description of what the “religious right” is, it’s always used as an example to frighten Americans. These days, all it takes to become a member of the “religious right” is to vote “Republican” and acknowledge that you believe in a “higher being”. Though I do not go to church, and though I do not use religion and God’s philosophy to justify war, all it takes is to write one piece in favor of a Republican like GWB to be cast into that same crowd.
I personally believed that "Christmas" was under attack before O'Reilly even made mention of it (and I don't even go tot Church anymore) by watching a piece on CNN (not Fox news) where they were talking about Boston Common (who receive a Christmas tree from Nova Scotia every year as a gift for Boston's help with the Halifax explosion in 1917). The ACLU and atheist minority of Boston wanted to “Christmas” struck out of it, and wanted to call it a "Holiday" tree. That's when it all started.
Bill O'Reilly, like me, is appalled every time some corporation caves into this pressure. Art museums are allowed to hang paintings in their museums of men urinating in each other’s mouths and call it "art", but the majority is not allowed to celebrate Christmas as a community - A FEDERAL HOLIDAY - (BTW do you think an atheist will insist on working on the days off they receive for these religious-federal holidays? LOL. Come on, you have to admit...this is the one times of the year when people are actually kind to one another, people smile....it's something that comes from within...the celebration of Christmas.
Do you think Christmas should be stripped away at the request of the ACLU and atheists just because a few of them feel like they have the right to strip the "rights" away from the majority? If not - I think Bill O'Reilly talking about it on his show is certainly not an issue that can be viewed as "dangerous" or "deceitful". Also, why do you think the left believes that O'Reilly would lie or make something up like that? JUST to demonize the left?
Okay just be more selective when someone is branded with the "religious right" mark. When it's overstated, it becomes less believable.
Merry Christmas!
MERRY CHRISTMAS LYDIA -- You rock! Like I said before, you get my vote as the most inspirational person I've had the pleasure of reading all year! Keep writing and helping the world.
ReplyDeleteLove,
James
"What would you do?"
ReplyDeleteIt's hard to answer. Honestly.
At this moment, if anyone invaded the United States to convert us to anything, I'd fight it, any of us should.
I cannot honestly tell you what it is like to live under oppressive military regimes though. The horrible parts of World War 2 and the Civil Wars helped to ensure that I can enjoy and never take for granted a true Democracy. A Democracy where you and I have the luxury to debate one another without you or me getting our heads sliced off. A Democracy that allows us to call our leaders horrible names (it's free speech and anyone has the right to do so).
It's not even so much about Ann Coulter being "right". I agree with her basic conservative ideas. However, she has a right to free speech without having to endure being called Joseph Stalin.
She gets a kick, as I do, about making liberals go crazy with speech because "we" think the left's ideas are nuts. However, the left has a right to call her "Stalin" and GWB a "murderer" if they choose to.
If we lived in a country that limited your right to dissent from our war efforts (I.E. GWB has not chopped off your head for dissenting) I would be grateful for the right to have my democratic voice, as you have the right to yours.
We have so much to be thankful for here in the United States. At the end of the day, if I (and guessing Coulter or Hannity as well, in fact I'd put $$$ on it) saw you or Lydia on the side of the road stranded or in need, even though I think your political views are wacky - the human being in me would kick in and feel the need to "help". The political smear nowadays is now leaving the political arena to personal attacks. But we need to remember that it is political and that more than anything - our country as a whole - must get through this hard time that is a result of decades and decades of ignoring problems with middle eastern leaders, the levees in New Orleans, Social Security, whatever.
The partisan politics needs to be reserved for debate only - but all of us need to learn how to come together and realize that we are where we are and we need to cut it out and pray for the best.
I know it was a long answer - a lot of that just came to me as I was writing.
What would I do? If I was living under a dictatorship - I would be grateful. If it was our democracy and freedom at stake - I'd fight.
If anyone deserves an especially nice thanx I would have to choose Worfeus. He has shown what appears to be true honor,loyalty, and strength of character defending Lydia and her views.
ReplyDeleteRene simply comes out here and says" I pray for you and your family" and she gets an extra thanx? Heck, I coulda easily said that.
Rene sounds like that psychologist chick I dated a few months ago who thought the Titanic movie was to violent to watch. Or could not read about the "Great Boston Fire" because it was too depressing.
My intentions are not nefarious; I just believe the award should be given to the individual who has put forth the most effort.
Johnny moo moo
Stevie Wonder - that was actually very eloquent and beautifully written. I do have problems with this statement you made though:
ReplyDeleteIf we lived in a country that limited your right to dissent from our war efforts (I.E. GWB has not chopped off your head for dissenting) I would be grateful for the right to have my democratic voice, as you have the right to yours.
Figuratively, many people have had their heads chopped off for dissenting. People who wore "PEACE" t-shirts were arrested in malls. The Dixie Chicks seem to have vanished (Maybe I'm wrong, but where did they go?) Michael Moore has been marginalized and ridiculed. There's a sinister form of blacklisting going on in America right now.
If you research it, there are thousands of "swarthy" types (Ann Coulter's term) who are still being held at Guantanamo Bay, who are completely innocent and whose lives have been ruined.
There are also things about this war that no one is telling us; our trusted leader did not do everything in his power to avoid war -- on the contrary, he chose to ignore every spiritual leader, even the Pope, who came to him and beseeched him to stop and really think this through, or at least slow down. There was no imminent danger: we were ON TOP of Saddamm. The whole world was watching him --and there was no IMMINENT DANGER. Bush RUSHED us to war. You say he didn't create more terrorists? It's only natural: if our country was invaded, more and more people would rise up against the invaders in very violent ways. More and more people in Iraq have joined the "resistance" and are committed to hating us -- more than ever before -- across all Muslim territories. Believe me, we would do the same thing if we were invaded -- even with a despot in power. ("He may be an evil despot, but at least he's MY evil despot.") You have to remember that at the time of Sadaam's reign, there was at least a routine and normalcy to daily life that people had been accustomed to: at least they could get food & housing & electricity. Students, even women, attended universities, had parties, and celebratd birthdays in cafes without fear of suicide attacks. And Time Magazine had a report on Christians in Iraq: they were not bothered or interfered with by Saddamm -- and some even owned laundries and corner markets. I actually read that they owned their own liquor stores! And at the time we were hovering over Sadaam while the U.N. inspectors made their rounds -- no one was going to look away for one second. We had Sadaam on his best behavior, after all -- he knew the world was his stage, and at that point, just to look like a good guy -- he might have actually been malleable enough (given enough time) to be willing to work with us. I wrote a book on Stalin and he definitely had an Achilles heel: his ego. There were many ways to get to Saddam - it would have been interesting trying, in a focused way, while the world watched. Or if not him, maybe his cronies. We could have won people in the underground over to our form of democracy -- by attraction not force. Nothing is ever truly won by force (and I mean that figuratively as well -- until a person reaches his own bottom or sees the light, they resist. You never win them over until they come to the decision inside first. Yes you can chain them up, but to win their hearts they have to want to change and be attracted to the light; they have to want it for themselves.) You think what they have now in Iraq is better? Living in constant fear of walking outside, going to school, buying groceries? Religious extremists blowing up Iraqi children as they blow themselves up -- because they are so passionately against the invaders? The Mideast has always been a hotbed, why on earth did Bush have to invade Muslim Holy land -- when the extremists made it known this was their biggest beef with us? American footprints on their holy land bringing capitalism to the Muslim world. Just like we did with the Saudis.
I will not be smeared by propagandists like Ann Coulter. I have family in the military (Marine with purple heart) and the American flag flies high outside our house. I love my sons and love all children. We are the most patriotic family I know. This is a heinous, diabolical war, brought on by an unthinking elitist who couldn't even finish his airforce training. I'd like to know why he doesn't send his own daughters to fight. Or why don't any of the other members of Congress who sold this war to the American people.
American parents who have lost their only children in Iraq have a right to speak out against this evil war without being called unpatriotic.
By the way, I do not hate Ann Coulter. As a Christian, I am called to hate the sin, but not the sinner. I do not hate anyone. But I will continue to speak out against her tactics. I am praying for her -- and for all of us to have softer hearts.
Thank you for your understanding.
Peace on Earth.
Love,
Lydia
WORFEUS -- I just read your above comment, and we said the same thing! Only yours was shorter and more to the point. I want to thank you publicly for your wisdom and insightful commentary -- and for being a scholar of the Bible as well as every other book ever written. I am learning a lot from you. You are very truthful -- and you're not afraid of ANYTHING!
ReplyDeleteAll is well:)
ReplyDeletejohnny moo moo
Johnny Moo Moo -- thank you for bringing that to my attention; I thanked Worfeus on my blog and also added a few words about you! I really appreciate all of your comments -- even the other side's because they give us a reason to use our minds. Love to all. Drewl, KAN 12, Marc, James W., Steve F., Stevie W. and everyone else is cool too!
ReplyDeleteLydia: Thank you for your kind comment to everyone :D Your still my favorite daughter even though I seen the "Warriors" three weeks ago." Im not your number 1 fan........ just a regular one. Dana Plato had my head spinning as a teenager.
ReplyDeleteBTY, did you get my e-mail at info@lydiacornell.com requesting an autographed book of "Sylvia Plan"?
Also, my offspring wants to say something to you but shes to shy as everyone on here talks so intellectual shes afraid of looking dumb :) LOL
Johnny moo moo
Hey Lydia,
ReplyDeleteIt is only recently that I have become a fan of you; as I am of a younger generation.I really want to see your show "Too close for comfort", I love those 80's sitcoms(All in the family and Three's Company were good ones).I've read some info about you on you're site and I'm quite interested in your book "Venus Conspiracy". I agree,it's sad that girls as young as nine are so concerned with their looks;it shows how much the stars and media of now days can affect us.
Under your favourite books section, I noticed "The diary of Anne Frank" a book I have read a few times myself,including the critical version.I own the black and white movie from 1956,it's pretty sad.She's a really good writer, her book "tales from the secret annex" includes many of her stories and an unfinished novel,maybe you've heard of it.Another author I really like is Stephen King,he's brilliant.Recently, in english class we read "Of mice and men" overall, it was a pretty good book, the end made me sad though, when George killed Lennie.Another book I suggest is "The Giver". Although it's intended for a younger audience, people of any age can read it.It's actually quite inelligent, maybe your older son has or will read it in the future.
I'd write more, but I've got to go.
Bye and Merry Christmas!
Yours sincerely
Lil Miss Moo Moo
Thank you Lil Miss Moo Moo - I'm delighted you wrote to me (you sound very intelligent, but never worry about that) and I'd love to discuss books with you in detail sometime. Tell your dad that my book THE SYLVIA PLAN will be out next year, but two other books are coming out first. I will send him an autographed copy and send you a copy of the film we did "Venus Conspiracy" as soon as we get more copies. Happy Holidays! You are so lucky to have a dad who loves you so much. Are you in high school or college?
ReplyDeletexoxo,
Lydia
Hi Lydia,thank you for responding.
ReplyDeleteI am in highschool, as I just turned fourteen on December 13th. :)
Bye, and have a nice night!
P.S Happy Holidays Worfeus :P
Sorry, I forgot to sign my name on the previous post!
ReplyDeleteLil miss moo moo.
Lydia,
ReplyDeleteI believe your quote about Ann was: "... so I suspect she belongs to the Antichrist trinity or the Taliban sect of Christianity." If that isn't hate speech what is?
You are nothing but a liberal copy of Ann Coulter. All you do is spew hate toward right-wingers.
Okay,
ReplyDeleteSorry. I was downtown Chicago tonight with family checking out the "Christmas" displays and the tree on State Street.
Okay Worfeus, I want to clear the confusion about the leaders.
When Clinton was talking of going to war, I never dissented. When many democratic senators who went with the same intel Clinton used during his administration and Bush used after he was elected, I did not dissent.
No it doesn't matter who the leader is. You asked about us being invaded, my answer is: If we were leaving in a military regime - as Iraq has for 48 years - I would be grateful..BUT since we have the luxury of living in a true democracy, I would fight it. All people in an oppressed society do not/did not have the voice that you and I have here. So it's a different situation.
Lydia: I haven't read about the mall incidents. However - when all of the Hollywood types, including Susan Sarandon and the Dixie Chicks fell under attack for not supporting the war, it was not simply because the "right-wingers" were out to get them.
The politics has played back and forth between parties. In May of 2000, conservative talk show host Dr. Laura Schlessinger (this is just one example of the left's marxism) was attacked by GLAAD for using an unapproved of phrase. Celebrities like Julia Dreyfus and Susan Sarandon got involved with them to make sure sponsors were ripped from her radio show and television show that came out at the time.
I am explaining this because, at the time, Tammy Bruce (a lesbian liberal & former N.O.W. president in Los Angeles) warned in her book "The New Thought Police" that when the left (in a matter of years from that time) chose to dissent from anything that they were going to suffer a backlash. Susan Sarandon, for example should not have been surprised by this reaction from the other side when it was her time to dissent, and in fact, she and other celebrities are hypocrites for helping to set up that structure in the first place that says "we can destroy someone we disagree with".
I have a million examples of - during the 90's - how the left has used these tactics to smother diverse opinion on any main social issues.
That explains - sort of - why the right has now slapped back.
Next, I understand what you are and aren't willing to put up with out of Ann Coulter. But the last time I checked, it was you who started the whole issue by writing the original piece on her.
Please correct me if I am wrong, did Ann Coulter write or speak anything of you before this? I watch her a lot on Fox News, CNN, MSNBC, I read her column every week. I don't remember her demonizing you, ever.
Bush - along with the elected Senate - picked up where Clinton left off. The speculations were there that Saddam was developing WMD. There was "fact" that he had supported and harbored terrorists. There was "fact" that he had corrupted the United Nations and France with his Oil For Food scandal - and as a result of that - hundreds of thousands of Iraqis were gassed and stuffed into mass graves.
Lastly, I'd like you guys to consider the fact that liberals were indeed (as Ann Coulter described in "Treason") enthusiastic about war in the Balkans based on some exaggerated numbers on human rights abuses alone. Compared to Milosevic, Saddam is a monster!
He's gone now. He cannot kill one more person. These terrorists and insurgents in Iraq are there out of fear. Their "power" comes from fear of oppressed people who were terrified for years to speak out against government policy. I am not being a wise guy by asking this question: but, do you guys honestly recognize how LUCKY you are to dissent?
In the political arena it is perfectly acceptable for Coulter to call you a traitor. Coulter, however is not calling for the slaughtering of liberals. Yes she will joke about it just to push your buttons, but come on...the woman weighs 90 pounds! (LOL)
In any case, I am grateful for the discussion. I'll check back again...and I am convinced sitting down and talking with you guys could be done with dignity and without screaming or insulting.
I am taking the realist view now. IF I did not support George Bush in the beginning (as I did) I would still get over my stuff from the past and move forward with this country because I am telling you - at this point - it's the best we can hope for.
Goodnight.
"If we were leaving in a military regime"
ReplyDeleteReplace "leaving" with "living".
"If we lived in a country that limited your right to dissent from our war efforts (I.E. GWB has not chopped off your head for dissenting) I would be grateful for the right to have my democratic voice, as you have the right to yours."
ReplyDeleteWhat I meant by this statement was:
If Worfeus was at risk for being beheaded in our current state of government because of his choice to dissent, I would support the invasion IF the invasion of this country was to establish a free democracy to take the risk away from him being beheaded.
In Iraq, people were killed for opposing Saddam. The US invasion and the establishment of democracy is TRYING to change that.
lydia cornell said...
ReplyDelete"Figuratively, many people have had their heads chopped off for dissenting. People who wore "PEACE" t-shirts were arrested in malls. The Dixie Chicks seem to have vanished (Maybe I'm wrong, but where did they go?) Michael Moore has been marginalized and ridiculed. There's a sinister form of blacklisting going on in America right now."
That "sinister form of blacklisting" is called "Freedom of Speech" Lydia, people have the right to express themselves on public property, (unless you're a conservative, then it's called hate speech) A Mall like any other store is PRIVATE property. Remember the signs that say "we reserve the right to refuse service to anyone"? You don't have a right to offend others ON THEIR OWN PROPERTY. The Ditzy Twits and Michael Moore have a right to express their opinion and have done so. Liberals are not the only ones with this right. If they offend me (and others) WE have the right not to purchase their products. Likewise in capitalism, Manufacturers have a right NOT to produce their merchandise if they are either offended by them as well, or if they can't sell enough of their merchandise to make a profit. Welcome to Democracy baby.
"If you research it, there are thousands of "swarthy" types (Ann Coulter's term) who are still being held at Guantanamo Bay, who are completely innocent and whose lives have been ruined."
Since you have obviously done the "research" please post it. I know that plenty of innocent people happen to hang out on battlefields just because they have nothing better to do. (A friend of mine is in prison for backpacking through a bank when the safe just happened to explode) I aslo sleep much better at night knowing these people are having gourmet meals and practicing the "religeon of peace" while reading their US goverment issued korans on a sunny carribean island while I have to work my butt off for a living.
"There are also things about this war that no one is telling us; our trusted leader did not do everything in his power to avoid war -- on the contrary, he chose to ignore every spiritual leader, even the Pope, who came to him and beseeched him to stop and really think this through, or at least slow down. There was no imminent danger: we were ON TOP of Saddamm. The whole world was watching him --and there was no IMMINENT DANGER. Bush RUSHED us to war."
If when you say "Bush RUSHED us to war" you mean after a decade and several (what was it, 14?) UN resolutions that Saddam ignored I guess I have to agree he certainly "RUSHED" right in. (that's not even taking into account his shooting at our sons and daughters in the northern and southern no fly zones) And UN inspectors can't do a whole lot of good while Saddam's men were running around in front of them moving items of interest before the UN got there. (remember how he had the UN office in Iraq bugged?) -Yeah, we were on top of 'ol Saddam.
"You say he didn't create more terrorists? It's only natural: if our country was invaded, more and more people would rise up against the invaders in very violent ways. More and more people in Iraq have joined the "resistance" and are committed to hating us -- more than ever before -- across all Muslim territories. Believe me, we would do the same thing if we were invaded -- even with a despot in power. ("He may be an evil despot, but at least he's MY evil despot.")"
Would we do the same thing? How many on your side would now welcome UN authority over our country? And regardless of what you might think, on the "Evil Despot scale" Bush isn't ranking very high. What would we do if governed by a REAL tyrant? And besides I really like fighting them over there first rather than waiting for them to kill a few thousand more and fighting them here.
"You have to remember that at the time of Sadaam's reign, there was at least a routine and normalcy to daily life that people had been accustomed to: at least they could get food & housing & electricity. Students, even women, attended universities, had parties, and celebratd birthdays in cafes without fear of suicide attacks."
Just fear of rape and torture by Saddams evil sons. Or being fed alive into meat grinders for their entertainment.
And that "food, housing and electricity" was only when and where availible. (offer not applicable if you happen to be a Kurd or Shite) And how about building sports stadiums with "Oil for Food" money while many of his people went without the food or medicine it was intended for? Oh, I forgot, that was America's fault for those darn sanctions....
WHERE IS YOUR MORAL CHRISTIAN OUTRAGE AT ANY OF THIS???!!!
"You think what they have now in Iraq is better? Living in constant fear of walking outside, going to school, buying groceries? Religious extremists blowing up Iraqi children as they blow themselves up -- because they are so passionately against the invaders? The Mideast has always been a hotbed, why on earth did Bush have to invade Muslim Holy land -- when the extremists made it known this was their biggest beef with us? American footprints on their holy land bringing capitalism to the Muslim world. Just like we did with the Saudis."
Although you won't hear it through the mainstream media (the propaganda arm of the DNC) A lot of Iraqis DO think what they have now is better. They're going to new schools rebuilt by our men and women in uniform, many are starting their own businesses and the Iraqi stock market is begining to take off. And the religeous extremists blowing up Iraqi children aren't just "passionately against the invaders", they're against ALL Jews and Christians wherever they exist in the world.
"I will not be smeared by propagandists like Ann Coulter. I have family in the military (Marine with purple heart) and the American flag flies high outside our house. I love my sons and love all children. We are the most patriotic family I know. This is a heinous, diabolical war, brought on by an unthinking elitist who couldn't even finish his airforce training. I'd like to know why he doesn't send his own daughters to fight. Or why don't any of the other members of Congress who sold this war to the American people."
This "heinous, diabolical war" ended a evil regime that unmercifully gassed hundreds of thousands of it's own people, stopped it's leaders from throwing human beings into shredders alive, (as one man said, "the lucky ones went in head first") what would Jesus think about us ignoring these attrocities while we sit at home all comfy in our beds?
AGAIN, WHERE IS YOUR MORAL CHRISTIAN OUTRAGE?
And look how the middle east is begining to change, Syria has left Lebanon, Khadaffi gave up his nuke program, democratic concessions are being made in Egypt and Saudi Arabia. If he is an elitist, Bush was thinking more than liberals were. Please, tell me what you know about Air Force training. Bush signed form 180 releasing all of his military records from the Pentagon. (Kerry wouldn't by the way) And as far as sending his daughters to fight goes, IT'S A VOLUNTEER MILITARY, he didn't force anyone to enlist.
"American parents who have lost their only children in Iraq have a right to speak out against this evil war without being called
unpatriotic."
Unless they're being disingenuous and unpatriotic. Calling terrorists "freedom fighters" while condemning your own country comes to mind.
WWII in both the European and Pacific theaters were "heinous and diabolical". Was that America's fault too? Is not the world now a better place because of it? Anyone notice that our strongest allies now are mostly those whose butts we kicked somewhere down the line? Democracy is begining to spread in the middle east now. Becareful what side you're on. Unthinking elitist indeed. Bushes vision may just usher in an era of greater peace than ever if the liberals don't weaken our resolve before the job is done.
"By the way, I do not hate Ann Coulter. As a Christian, I am called to hate the sin, but not the sinner. I do not hate anyone. But I will continue to speak out against her tactics. I am praying for her -- and for all of us to have softer hearts."
Lydia please, your tactics weren't any better. You went there trying to bait her and she caught on. Conservatives aren't the dimwits you think they are. You thought you could pull a fast one on her and you got bit. (And you seem to be making a lot more hay of it than she is, I don't hear her grousing about Lydia Cornell in every column, and it's seems to have enlarged your spotlight making you a little more marketable. So relax, you're gonna make more money now than you would've before.)
-Eric
Nice try worf,
ReplyDeleteTalk about hubris, just dodge the facts and make up points to argue against.
Nowhere in that post do I claim to be afraid of Saddam. Instead I pointed to the many attrocities he commited on HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS of his own people and asked where the moral Christian outrage is for that on this board.
I also notice you distorted Stevie's post to serve your own needs as well.
I believe his point was IF we lived in a totalitarian dictatorship he would NOT fight an invasion for our liberation, but WOULD fight invaders if we lived under a true democracy like we now have. But you knew that.
You want to accuse me of deception because I post 2 paragraphs from someone else without proper attribution? Fine, but truth is truth wether I post it under my name or not. If you have to twist words and make up arguments that don't exist you must not have much integrity yourself.
And Democrats have always tried to sell out their own country throughout history. Copperhead democrats were preaching sedition during the civil war, you guys coddled communism in the 50's and 60's, demonized McCarthy as destroying peoples lives and then after the release of the venona papers we find he was right. No war was ever good enough to support your country was it?
That's ok, keep on omitting the context when you quote someone. Keep twisting their words even though you know what they mean. And if all that fails just make up and attribute a position to someone and argue against that.
You may be well read, but knowledge and wisdom are often two different things.
You question my manhood?
The hubris and deception is all yours little man.
Lydia,
ReplyDeleteGeez, do you honestly believe if Christ were to come down from Heaven he would say to all the Republicans (and BTW those who DON'T think like you--of which, yes I don't always agree with you) "Be gone!"
I know you didn't write that, but you printed it so what say you on this?
I believe I already know your answer.
Regards,
Ken
"Wow, stevo, so much false information, so little time."
ReplyDeleteWell Worfo, if you were trying to make a case of blather on my part, I think the appropriate phrase would be "so much false information, so MUCH time" LOL.
I don't know what you were talking about in terms of false. It's frustrating trying to have a discussion with someone who makes huge accusations like this without producing the case of guilt. I really would rather you tell me what I was wrong about, I can produce the evidence, I assumed you already knew everything that I had said.
You said "What would you do?" I told you, that in the case of the United States I WOULD FIGHT.
I am glad you brought that up though. What would YOU do if Arab terrorists invaded our country? Oh...wait.
But seriously. Let's speculate, shall we? We lose the war on terror, terrorists become more powerful than ever, they invade our country, and convert us all to Islam (their kind, not "true" Islam). Wouldn't you fight?
"The Arabs have been living under oppressive (by western standards)and cruel Muslim Governments since before the Crusades.
And just because you think you're more enlightened than those poor arab mongrels, like the Knights Templar did, does not mean you have a right to kill or cause to be killed 30,000 or 100,000 of them, or whatever estimate helps you sleep at night, so you can force your form of government on them.
Why is it so many right wingers never learn the concept of free will?
You can't be forced into freedom.
You have to want it."
What was that group of individuals that were oppressed and gassed to death by a brutal dictator? Ummm, don't quote me, but I do believe it was the Jews, wasn't it?
So, Worfeus, other than retaliating for WW2 and being bombed at Pearl Harbor and all (though we technically were not attacked by Hitler), why did we work to free Nazi concentration camps? Shouldn't the Jews have "wanted it" on their own without help?
Doesn't that prove that with extreme levels of oppression, that people have very little choice to change their way of life?
Lastly I'd like to make one comparison:
The John Hopkins Study is false (that estimates that over 100,000 have died in the Iraq War). But we are going to use it here, just so that you have an advantage (sort of a freebie).
In the case of the war, 100,000 Iraqis die because we are working to establish the same democracy that you and I enjoy right now! The benefits will be endless for the Iraqis and for us!
In the case of the honorable Saddam Hussein, who corrupts the United Nations and France and gasses up to 400,000 of his own people (which surpasses the war number by 300,000) accomplishes nothing but power for himself and more oppression for Iraqis.
My only question is: how powerful should we have let him become before we took him out?
Also, read the numbers I provided for all three of the Iraq elections: I do believe this proves that they want it.
I'm leaving you with a paraphrase from a fine (LOL) United States Senator.
'I never want Saddam to see the light of say again..he needed to be removed, I just disagree with the course of action we took in removing him, we could have went in and nabbed him peacefully, as we did with Milosevic'.....Senator Barbara Boxer during the confirmation hearings for Condoleezza Rice.
Let me ask you one question Worf.
Did he need to be removed, and do you agree with liberal Barbara Boxer's statement?
Woerfus,
ReplyDeleteHey, happy to make your acquaintance again!
I couldn't help but notice this you wrote:
"Hmmm..see the problem with a republican, is their morals are so far gone, they think plagiarizing someone elses work,and pretending it's theirs so they can sound smart in a debate, is somehow ok, as long as they don't get caught."
I seem to remember a couple of Democrats having the same problem. Larry Tribe, the Democrat's top scholar and lawyer and Senator Joseph Biden of Delaware.
Works both ways.
Regards,
Ken
Worfeus said: "And the Iraqi people were free to either live under Saddam, or change their situation. EXCELLENT,EXCELLENT,POINT!
ReplyDeleteCONSIDER THIS:" The task of diplomacy is to ensure that a nation does not heroically go to its destruction but is practically preserved. Every way that leads to this end is expedient, and a failure to follow it must be called criminal neglect of duty."
"State authority as an end in itself cannot exist, since in that case every tyranny on this earth would be sacred and unassailable. If a racial entity is being led to its doom by means of governmental power, then the rebellion of every single member of such a folk is not only a right, but a duty."
Adolph Hitler
Johnny moo moo
Wow Worfeus:
ReplyDeleteTalk about plagiarism, even complete with the liberal throw- ins. Should we do a nation wide survey to see everyone who is enlisted now, of which ones are conservative and which ones are liberal?
Something tells me though that you had a look at the following blog, OR copied and pasted it from whomever this person copied and pasted it from.
Read it and enjoy:
http://skaroff.com/blog/index.php/2005/11/30/but-arent-democrats-weak
"And the Iraqi people were free to either live under Saddam, or change their situation."
ReplyDeleteWhat steps could they have taken?
Living under that kind if fear and all.
Inspired by Hitlers own words, Albert Speer conducted his own mini one man revolution which included assassination.
ReplyDeleteAlthough poorly planned, Col. Count Klaus Von Stauffenberg and his chums came very close to achieving their objective.
Johnny moo moo
Worfeus: In March/April 1945 on his own initiative, Speer made a silent and moral decision to assassinate his long time friend.
ReplyDeleteThe other attempt that you are refering to, with lots of generals in it, was on July 20 1944 and Speer was not in on this one. The conspirators were basically afraid to approach him.
Johnny moo moo
Good god......164 comments.....and all but 12 of them posted by Worfeus. Dude, you're using up all the white space, and I dare say dominating the dialogue (or diatribe as the case may be). I was going to chastise you for this, but scrolling through the other comments I see that Lydia actually likes your comments (sigh)....go figure.
ReplyDeleteWorfeus....is this you dude?
ReplyDeletehttp://worfeus.stumbleupon.com/about/
Worfeus: My point is in relation to your 5:12 and 6:12 pm posts and the Hitler quote I posted which one may wish to analyze.
ReplyDeleteJohnny moo moo
"Do me a favor Steve. If you want to debate me, then debate me.
ReplyDeleteBut don't ever accuse me of Plagiarism again if you want me to respond to you."
I have been debating you all along. The problem is, you have been selective in what you will talk about. I have made so many factual points on this thread that you have failed to mention.
It's easy to get your goat though, which is not my intention, though showing how easy it is for you to respond, and counting the number of posts you've made on this blog makes me wonder if you live anywhere else other than your computer screen.
In your military assessment, you pass the idea as if you gathered the facts and wrote that entire post yourself. When indeed, someone else wrote ALL OF THAT back in November and worded it EXACTLY the same way you did. So yes TECHINCALLY you are guilty of plagiarism for wording it EXACTLY the same way.
Sorry guy, you aren't getting a pass on this one. ;-)
Always cute when the worm turns isn't it?
The tact and hard work was done by someone else to compile it.
I am not sure what your point is though. The list is not overwhelming in proving anything. The fact is now, the military is made up of volunteers - PEOPLE WHO ENLISTED. They are free to leave the military but they are staying there. Many interviews with many of the troops display pride in what they are doing there. So I would be willing to bet that MORE of them are supporting George Bush than they support Worfeus.
It's the idea that is debateable. If you support your police department and fire department, you NOT joining them in fighting crime and fires tomorrow does not change the IDEA of having them, does it? If you don't join, does this mean that the fire department does not have your support?
What you are ignoring, is the fact that Iraqis DO WANT the democracy. The overwhelming turnout of the polls are all the proof we need. You are ignoring that!
I know why. But you won't admit it.
You also ignored Barbara Boxer's comment I posted. She is grateful that Saddam is gone.
Lastly, I'd like to give you a stress test. Sit you in a chair, hold up a picture of Saddam Hussein and hold up a picture of George Bush. LOL....Which one gets your goat Worfeus?
By the way, speaking of those gays, you know under Saddam's regime, homosexuality was a CRIME that was punishable by death. It was also a CRIME held in the same regard as rape.
That poor Saddam, no threat whatsoever.
What were the evil right-wingers thinking?
LOL
"Saddam increasingly portrayed himself as a devout Muslim, in an effort to co-opt the conservative religious segments of society. Some elements of Sharia law were re-introduced (such as the 2001 edict imposing the death penalty for homosexuality, rape and prostitution, and the ritual phrase "Allahu Akbar" ("God is great"), in Saddam's handwriting, was added to the national flag.)"
ReplyDeleteAnd Worfeus, you thought that pesky religious right was oppressing homosexuals.
;-)
"The war in Iraq is wrong, and the Christian Right has corrupted the teachings of Christ and blurred the division of Church and State."
ReplyDeleteOh no, no no no. LOL. Come on Worfeus, we went over this. Your only substantial proof of this was a phony quote that was alleged by Nabil Shaath, and you didn't even give him the credit. You gave it to a liberal journalist who reported it.
I put that one to rest by telling you the White House denied it, AND that other Arab leaders who attended the Jordanian summit denied it as well.
Regarding the men urinating in eachother's mouths, it was an art exhibit, in 2001 I believe in New York (I will find it) posted in a Museum. The majority wanted it taken down because they felt the exhibit was offensive but the ACLU came in and protected the rights of the artist.
Second, the ACLU also ran to the rescue of the EXTREME minority in Boston who wanted the Christmas tree (the Nova Scotia gift I explained to you earlier) to be renamed the "Holiday" tree. This occured before Bill O'Reilly said ANYTHING about it.
But more than anything here, why are you so threatened by Bill O'Reilly making a deal about it, regardless if his concerns were valid or not. He's just protecting Christmas. What harm do you think is going to come out of it?
See when the left "reacts" like you seem to be to him, it makes me wonder what these signs are indicative of. Care to explain?
In regards to these few issues, including the war, I, as well as Eric, have explained IN DETAIL our opinions and thoughts. You didn't convince us, and we didn't convince you, but don't act as if these issues like the Christmas controversy, or the "religious right's" 13 month "Rush to War" counterargument. It's all been explained and articulated to you.
You probably didn't read all of it. I am concerned if your mind really is open to the diversity. Aren't liberals the ones who advocate "tolerance"? "Tolerance" cannot pause just when you don't agree with someone, can it? (Even if it is steviewonder, Eric, O'Reilly, or Ann Coulter).
Well, since you made mention of it twice, I would venture to say that the comment about getting your goat, indeed "got your goat" in and of itself.
ReplyDeleteYou made mention of it twice LOL.
The reason you have ignored the numbers of Iraqis who particpated in the greatest democracy ever is because it clearly indicates their desire.
The same desire that you declare they needed to start their own "revolution".
Did we force them to vote?
Or did we cook the books when it came to counting the ballots?
LOL...OH NO...what did I just do? More "election fraud" for the liberals to create and cry about for another four years.
"I will email my answer to Lydia now so I can't change it later."
ReplyDeleteLOL.
You're kidding me.
What is this, the game of "Life"?
"I'm going to show you my card, let's hope he/she doens't guess it"
By the way.....
ReplyDeleteWhy woould you admit the "real reason"
It would mean you would have to admit your fear of a "democracy accepting" Iraq.
Of course you aren't going to tell us the truth.
LOL....worf you are too much. Go ahead, give me your best "George Bush is a liar", we "forced the Iraqis to vote", whatever your answer is, let's hear it!
ReplyDeleteBut you must promise that it is 100% truthful (LOL yeah right).
Patriot Act extended - passed by the Senate today!
ReplyDeleteLOL, poor Liberals.
Oh Geez! It's not "moot"
ReplyDeleteI sat here, like a good boy for the last 20 minutes waiting for that!
LOL.
And now, you get to make assumptions on my responses? Perhaps I should start pre-emailing Lydia as well.
"You know you would have"
LOL. Well Worf, this has turned from a passionate back and forth to a fun chat. Which is fine.
In any case.........
If you scroll up you will see the advantages of Iraq democracy.
You are wrong. We did not go to Iraq STRICTLY BECAUSE OF WMD. Condoleezza Rice reminded the Senate Foreign Relations Committee of this when Kerry, Boxer, and Biden all tried to intellectualize the same thing.
The plan for establishing democracy and over throwing Saddam's regime was clear from the very beginning, AND was illustrated and outlined as well.
If it weren't, Teddy Kennedy, Joe Biden, John kerry, and Barbara Boxer would have not been debating and flip flopping on the issue of "troop withdrawal".
Look beyond little buddy.
I have to say you've grown on me the last couple days. Kind of like an annoying little brother who I can give wedgies to and throw popcorn at. (Don't get so itsy....all in good fun of course).
LOL.
I have to go to bed now.
Night!
Dec 22 1879
ReplyDeleteStalin's birthday!
"I just disproved by posting the exact post made yesterday showing clear evidence of the Right Wing influencing the separation of church and state"
ReplyDeleteLOL. Worf....I DO NOT live on this blog bud. I answered your first "I don't care" post and went to bed. Apparently, you were typing the second post as I was answering the first.
I did not dodge. What I have proven is that I (as many Republicans) do not have to back down...you are the ones that have to produce the evidence of Bush being a murderer, Republicans being corrupt, yada yada. We don't have to back down because common sense generally speaks in our favor. Which results in a number of things, but mainly the usual liberal label of "oh, well you know the trouble with them conservatives is they have simple answers to complex issues". LOL
However to answer your question Worf (but I really do hate taking away that feeling of self victory on your end) I never remember discussing the separation of church and state with you. When did I bring that up? What we were discussing is the right wing's apparent "religious" rush to war. What I shot down was the argument that George Bush went to war because of religious reasons. What I am shooting down is the assertion that supporters of war are supporting it because of "religion". Now you are bringing in seperation of church and state?
How can I be called on something or defeated on something if I never mentioned it in the first place.
It does raise a great question for the ever-so-bright Worf. Isn't it great that Saddam was removed - seeing as he was executing homosexuals and all. He obviously thought "religion" was enough inspiration to grant justification for this.
I know, GWB is the evil one. Poor Saddam...LOL.
Incidentally, don't tell me you believe Saddam as he prattled on yesterday about how the United States has tortured him.
So....okay. I think after reading here, you can see that I was not evasive with you. Still aren't.
:-).
And I'm 32. Somehow I feel older than you. Yoga is a terrific thing though for making one feel 21 and all. Try it. Also stops them from freaking out, as well as clearing the mind for good productive thinking.
I am shorter than you however. 5'11. Though both brothers (younger) are 6'2, plus my sister is 5'10. I am the oldest though. Just comes natural. My poor mother though is 5'1 and weighs about 100 pounds LOL.
"WORFEUS is at your service. :|"
Still waitin for ya to clean my clock there Worfy.
"Worf's Clock Cleaning Service"
"Among the things that war entails are: killing people (sometimes innocent), destroying buildings (sometimes innocent) and spying on people (sometimes innocent). That is why war is a bad thing. But once a war starts, it is going to be finished one way or another, and I have a preference for it coming out one way rather than the other."
ReplyDelete"It's one or the other: Either we take the politically correct, scattershot approach and violate everyone's civil liberties, or we focus on the group threatening us and — in the worst-case scenario — run the risk of briefly violating the civil liberties of 1,000 people in a country of 300 million.
Of course, this is assuming I'm talking to people from the world of the normal. In the Democrats' world, there are two more options. Violate no one's civil liberties and get used to a lot more 9/11s, or the modified third option, preferred by Sen. John D. Rockefeller: Let the president do all the work and take all the heat for preventing another terrorist attack while you place a letter expressing your objections in a file cabinet as a small parchment tribute to your exquisite conscience."
A couple of great points from "hatemonger" Coulter's brilliant column this week.
Poor Worfeus, his lunchtime break is going to require a lot of work!
;-)
Stevie,
ReplyDeleteHow much work can it take to misquote, twist and distort?
(by the way worf, I don't care if you ever answer anything from me. You can't. It'd just be a warped delusionary spew anyway. What a coward you are, never address an issue just bitch about sematics. -And that's the last post I'll ever address to you.)
"Steve, don't worry, I won't waste too much more time on you."
ReplyDeleteRight, because you haven't done so already.
"Because you are clearly just lying now to try to sound smart."
I know I'm not lying, and one doesn't "sound" smart. They either are or they aren't. I'm not proclaiming intelligence and degrading you by pronouncing myself the "clock-cleaner" (that's your job). I'm just the "goat-getter". Which, by the way, doesn't say much for you if a "dummy" like me has gotten you to "waste" so much time on me.
"All I have been debating is the war, and the Christian Right's influence on the government."
What you have been debating - more than anything - is the "religious" rush to war. Which I answered to. The rest of your biblical interpretations are not really "debate" politically. They serve more biblical debate than anything. The only thing "political" I have gotten out of your "biblical" arguments is "Bush went to war because God told him to". So that's all I've answered. The seperate issue about Eric's post explaining the entire Matthew verse of judging was a separate argument. I was just stating that Eric was "right" and your definition was "wrong". (Something else that apparently "got your goat").
"Yea, you're a genius.
So you're either very stupid, or a liar."
Ummm, okay so why don't you pick one so I can either A.)Thank you for the compliment B.) Accept your insult as a compliment seeing as most brilliant liberal arguments can be summarized with a small "you're stupid" or C.) Demand evidence of mis-truth (which probably exists in the same file cabinet that you are storing the "murdering" evidence against GWB - hurry send it to Capital Hill so Bush can be impeached!)
"The war is wrong.
And the Christian Right is influencing the division of Church and State."
We have debated point 1. Point 2 again is a vague statement. The only point I have thoroughly debated you on was the war aspect of religion, and proved you wrong about conservatives justifying going to war by using religion as a reason. That's just false.
Regarding you calling me a "Nimrod".
I'll let you have that one. A present to you from me. Feel any better?
Merry Christmas.
LOL, I'm between book jobs here.
ReplyDeleteWorf said:
"For instance, criticizing someone who is gay, while endorsing the killing of tens of thousands, now theres a good mote and beam comparison."
"And the fruits of men like George Dubya Bush, are evidence enough for me of his evil."
"And as for why I talk about the Bible. It's because you nazi sympathizing lunatics put your self up as the holy Christian Right, thats why dimwit."
"Jerusalem -- President Bush told two high-ranking Palestinian officials that he had been told by God to invade Afghanistan and Iraq and then create a Palestinian state to bring peace to the Middle East, they recall during a documentary on Middle East peace that airs next week in Britain
Matthew Kalman, Chronicle Foreign Service, Friday, October 7, 2005
Since you dared and all."
So these are just a few. There are other threads on here I have read where you indicated this as well.
What you are trying to do is a few things. Label Republicans as religious hypocrites by 1.) showing their love of gay bashing and love for war, using religion as your platform for hypocritical allegation. 2.) When you actually came out and IMPLIED that you believed the nonsense about Nabil Shaath and responded to my "dare" by posting your so-called "proof".
You really are not fooling anyone. Now that I have characterized your summations appropriately: you implying that Bush rushed to war because "God told him to", your only argument is demanding a quote where you used the EXACT wording.
My wording put your words into the SAME context but also REVEALED how ridiculous the ideas were.
If you have a problem with this kind of writing, perhaps you ought to take it up with 99.999% of the columnists and editors at the New York Times.
BUT, now since you are proclaiming to never have thought these things - EVER, I am assuming that you are I can both be happy here.
Okay, here's the deal! I will admit that I have completely misrepresented you - EVEN TAKING INTO consideration the arguments including Nabil Shaath's comment about President Bush that you showed to "prove" some other point - since that wasn't your point in the first place.
Okay, but before we shake on it, you must promise me that such ideology would be debated by you and that all liberals out there who are saying these things are "insane" and also admit that no conservatives use religion to justify the war - including Bush!
Okay, if you agree on it, I will admit that I was wrong (gratifying your ego) if you admit GWB and conservatives are not using religion for war. I mean, after all, you never said or implied it, right?
We both get something out of it.
Whaddya say?
Your response will prove how liberals are willing to "compromise".
I'm dying to read it.
Word usage implies my ability to "explain".
ReplyDeleteYou are one to talk about endless yap. Want to count the words on this entire website typed by me, compared to you?
Okay, and just so you know I WILL NOT be responding for a while this evening.
I'll be at Christmas parties for clients. So, it may be up to a full day before you hear back from me.
Hopefully Eric can pick up where I leave off.
Hey Eric buddy, btw, nice to see "we are the same person". LOL.
I've always thought you were handsome and smart!
LOL
No hard feelings Worf. Be nice!
Read it again:
ReplyDeleteYour only argument is demanding a quote where you used the EXACT wording.
My wording put your words into the SAME context but also REVEALED how ridiculous the ideas were.
If you have a problem with this kind of writing, perhaps you ought to take it up with 99.999% of the columnists and editors at the New York Times.
And what about the my proposal? Is it or is it not a deal Worfeus?
Don't just deny that you said it: AGREE with me that the idea that conservatives use "religion" to endorse war is "nonsense" then we can move on.
You claim the it's something you don't believe in, so it's really easy. Just agree with me on it.
Work with me here.
Worfeus: Being a Canadian, I support the United States and its war on terrorism and have always considered you our long time good friends. I mean, let's face it, you guys could easily steam roll over us for our land and resources; so your ultimate intentions cant be that bad.
ReplyDeleteDont try it though..... because you never know, maybe we could kick your butts again like we did a couple of hundred years ago? LOL :D
Anyways, I, like you and Stevie, appreciate democracy and feel it would be good for Iraq, however, I would not like it if someone came inside my house and said " I know whats best for you."
On the other hand, if I heard my neighbour beating his/her kids senselessly with a stick, I would most certainly bust down the door to aid them.
But, I would not bust down my neighbours door to raid his/her fridge.
In extreme cases such as Stalin, Pol Pot, Hitler, Saddam ,etc..I believe that the people should rise up and make a determined effort at salvation. Therefore, I applaud Stauffenberg in heeding Hitlers own words, and Speer for his efforts at preventing scorched earth.
Nevertheless, I have always been mystified that somebody somewhere inside Russia never peeled Stalins cap - thereby allowing millions to die.
And, many times I have said to myself "How could the rest of the world allow this to happen?"
Johnny moo moo
Take Care
P.S. I hope Iraq doesnt turn out to be another Vietnam.
Johnny,
ReplyDeleteWe'd NEVER steamroll over you guys!
You guys make the best BEER!
(Molson and Moosehead)
Worf, now you know I admitted nothing of the sort.
ReplyDeleteBut you are obviously holding firm to your accusation that I totally misquoted you and took you out of context.
FINE, so then you obviously would have no problem admitting that the idea that "conservatives and Bush are using religion to justify war" is an unfair liberal characterization.
I would rather be wrong in mischaracterizing you by taking your words the wrong way.
It's a good thing for the world if we are on the same page here.
SO just say it then....that you think the liberal accusation of "Republicans and/or Bush went to war because God told them to" is INSANE.
It's a good thing, we finally agree on something, don't we?
Stevie,
ReplyDeleteNot me. After awhile I get tired of beating my head against a brickwall.
Any person with an ounce of compassion, wether christian or not, could not say that Saddam should've been left alone and Bush is evil.
I have a hard time believing that Jesus would sit on his hands and do nothing while almost half a million innocent people were gassed, shot and/or fed alive into meat grinders.
"All evil needs to succeed is for good men to do nothing"
-don't know who said it, it wasn't me though so it's probably not true...
See what I mean Steve?
ReplyDeleteHe IMPLIED a "religeous rush to war" even if he didn't actually string those exact words together. Now he wants to play "I never said that".
It's cheap and diversionary and he probably knows that but thinks he's being clever.
He has to frame the argument exactly this way because he either he can't think for himself or he doesn't have the courage of his convictions. He doesn't know where to go if it doesn't fit into the talking points he's memorized or if he can't paste up a quote that fits.
Speaking of quotes, I like this one,
"Now I will concede, that there is Hubris that I have pointed to, that it is Hubris to call oneself a Christian while supporting the killing of thousands and thousands of people."
Note how he and others here use this to denounce Bush while they, through speech and actions support Saddam's killing of hundreds of thousands of people.
What a bunch of hypocritical self serving tripe.
"See how easy it is for a dishonest person to move on?"
ReplyDeleteYeah, you're a pro alright.
"See, the Administration never claimed that Iraq was anything other than for WMD and keeping Americans safe?"
Yes they did. They claimed it was for a whole list of things. Saddam being a mass murderer was one of them.
"Cause Mr. Humanitarian, while you're busy going after a guy who did these things to half a million people, you sit idly by and watch leaders in Rawanda, the Congo, and North Korea who are doing those things and far worse, and not to half a million people, but 10's of Millions of People."
So by this "logic" Christ shouldn't have saved anyone if he couldn't have saved everybody?
"I would spend a few minutes to illumintate the difference in the Christian Right supporting the decision to go to war, and making the decision to go to war, but your too stupid to get it."
ReplyDeleteHere you go again implying a religeous "rush" to war....
"It is Hubris to call yourself a Christian if you support the killing of thousands and thousands of people.
What's your point?"
Wether you personally happen to be christian doesn't matter. You personally DEFEND others here who are and use this very logic to denounce Bush but SUPPORT Saddam through their words and actions
" Whereas Iraq persists in violating resolutions of the United Nations Security Council by continuing to engage in brutal repression of its civilian population thereby threatening international peace and security in the region, by refusing to release, repatriate, or account for non-Iraqi citizens wrongfully detained by Iraq, including an American serviceman, and by failing to return property wrongfully seized by Iraq from Kuwait;
ReplyDeleteWhereas the current Iraqi regime has demonstrated its capability and willingness to use weapons of mass destruction against other nations and its own people; "
You seem to have forgotten these jems....AND before you mouth off, "mass murderer" isn't stated. Just implied. (you know, like you IMPLY all sorts of things you won't defend?
You bore me.
maybe later...
Incase you haven't noticed, congress has had no spine for a very long time. They haven't legally "declared" a war in a long time, even before it was run by the Republicans. Somalia and Bosnia weren't congressionally declared. Neither was the first gulf war or Vietnam. Make someone else make the hard decisions. Easier then to deny they called for it.
ReplyDeleteAnd Iraq WAS tied to 9/11 even if it was indirectly. Al-Qaida was trying to establish ties with Baghdad. Iraq was a recupperating home for terrorists including Zarquawi, and don't forget Iraq is where Abu Nidal committed suicide. Pumped a few rounds into his chest and several more into his head.
And moreover, let's not forget the Bush doctrine of preemption. We needed to take them out BEFORE they became an imminent threat. Saddam was already paying the families of palestinian suicide bombers among other things.
"I knew then that America was a paper tiger"
Osama bin Laden, when we cut and ran in Somalia...
Also, we weren't talking about the "Authorization to go to war", we were talking about Bushes CLAIMS for going into Iraq.
ReplyDelete(small distinction I know, but since you like semantics so much...)
Well worf,
ReplyDeleteIf you had a large gang, and taught them all to chant "death to Eric" all day and you or members of that gang had threatened to kill me, had the weapons, and had attempted to kill members of my family and had killed others of a simillar position as me, and I saw you coming down the street?
I'd blow your ass away in a heartbeat.
And I'd bet a jury would be hard pressed to convict me.
A special Christmas thanks to all of the "right-wing" conservatives who have made our nation safe this season. It is funny how the liberals call our president stupid but then complain that they fooled them into voting for war. Who are the real idiots?
ReplyDeleteAnn Coulter for President!
Awwww You guys I really missed out of a lot of fun here.
ReplyDeleteLOL...Quickly Worfeus, I thought Jesus was born on December 25. He was RESSURECTED in April after being hung on the cross.
Yes it's a simple folk retort but correct me on it if you'd like.
What about the three Wiseman, the donkeys, Bethlehem....that all happened in April?
Eric, you did a great job I'm very proud. It's not hard spewing right winged venom.
Unfortunately, myself included, I've gotten almost "friendly" with Worf so even though him and I will take pot shots at each other in the future, I don't want to hurt him, or Lydia for that matter.
Taking out "Ann Coulter" of Lydia's words, they are actually very nice words. I said some things about Lydia on my website and I considered erasing them but I don't think there is anything wrong with allowing to demonstrate your opinion of people at face value.
My implication was that Lydia was a "has-been" and after reading various pieces and fact-checking various sources (including Stafford Jones) I became angrier. Lydia, though corrected herself and made a public apology to him, so she won some points (not saying that winning points from me is "important").
I do believe Lydia and Worf have "good intentions", and what's funny is that Lydia and I seem to be exactly the opposite. While Lydia was a Republican in her early years, I was a liberal in mine.
I'm not sure, I think she and I are both in our 30's (I'm 32) but I know what converted me was the left's Marxism when it came to social issues and how they seemed to be overwhelmed with "silencing" political diversity.
Being a gay man, I am appalled every time a heterosexual liberal tries to decide what's best for my community politically as they lived in it everyday. I see, day in and day out, the problems existing in my community that stem from self-segregation, and downright bitterness. While gays often complain about not being "accepted" by the norm, I see them everyday REJECTING the norm. My turning point was what I described above, when they went too far and launched the campaign against Dr. Laura Schlessinger in 2000. They tortured this woman, smeared her name, gathered Hollywood support - and then - as Lydia pointed out - 2 years later they were crying when their names were being smeared for being "anti-war". As I pointed out, it was the left side of this country that made it "in-vogue" to set up a structure that allows dissenters to be destroyed. It's a war within our own country, and the left now have basically ruined it for themselves.
While politically for Ann Coulter, this is great news. However, it's bad for business. It's getting to the point now where all Ann has to do is say something along the lines of: "The left is getting crazier" and the average person's response is "yeah, so?"
Worf, there was no rush to war. George W. just happened to be the man who had the sack to finally do it. Stephanopoulos and Clinton were talking and implying for years...then AFTER 9/11 when Bush was President, and after Saddam made a bluff to the UN, it was apparent...we could not take threats LIGHTLY anymore.
So what if he was an ally before? So was Bin laden, what's the point there? We tried the peaceful approaches in the past of arming them, providing for them, and it only fed their rage. So yes, we have to fight. It's going to take a long time.
But, as Ann pointed out (there was a reason I pasted that passage from her column this week) "war is bad" for different reasons (mainly because "innocents suffer", but once a war is started, the outcome is detrimental to our future.
As Christmas and the New Year approach, though I am nobody special, I implore you war bashers to save your words of discouragement until our boys win and come home.
We have plenty of time to debate about it.
"But thanks for providing a clear example of how the Christian Right really doesn't know anything about the guy whose name they call themselves after (not that you're a Chrisitan Right, consider the comparison analogous)."
ReplyDeleteWell I'm glad you threw in that last statement there. This is my point about you. Believing that Christ was born December 25th IS NOT a "christian right" thing. It's a "majority" thing. Liberals and Conservatives ALIKE believe it.
I'm going to do some reading on this though. We shall see.
By the way, what INDEED makes your philiosophy or your source of your philosophy MORE scholarly and true. Who's preaching it?
"Iraqis March, Say Elections Were Rigged
ReplyDeleteAP - 2 hours, 22 minutes ago BAGHDAD, Iraq - "
Worfeus I'm surprised that you didn't have this posted 2 hours ago when it broke. LOL.
Just in case you are interested, here's stevie's take on it.
Iraqi Sunnis = American Liberals
So 20,000 OUT OF 10 MILLION people are whining and screaming because a majority elected leaders that they disagree with politically. They allege corruption and rigging. Gee, I wonder what Americans they learned this tactic from?
Call me crazy - but it sounds like the year 2000 elections to me.
So, because American liberals question the basis of our democracy, should we live under a strict military regime?
LOL.
(I could just picture your little eyes light up like a Christmas tree Worf when you read those headlines).
In any case, regarding "your words" bringing the boys home...I think your quickness to post this article (to provide more discouragement to our troops) is indicative of your desire for us to lose.
"Just to kill Arabs"?
Do you support Saddam being removed at all? I don't know if you ever made mention of that.
Thank you President Bush for making the country safe for Americans.
ReplyDeleteAnn Coulter for President!!
Worfeus: Your 12:11 PM post was nicely said and I agree. I have to admit I was somewhat taken aback by Stevies comment: "What steps could they have taken? Living under that kind of fear and all?" I cannot speak for everyone, but I know I would die trying. However, creating an effective rebellion is easier said than done.
ReplyDeleteAlso, I would like to say everyone has certainly raised some good points to keep his/her brain occupied for awhile.
BTW Worfeus, maybe your intelligent, but not as intelligent as Johnny moo moo. Without cheating, answer this difficult mystery of life? - What was Barney Rubbles occupation on the Flintstones? :D
Johnny moo moo
no cheating :D
Try to remember! One more guess.
ReplyDeleteJohnny moo moo
Its a trick question to make one think needlessly. Often with good results. You cant remember because it was never described on the show. Barney simply jumped in Freds car in the morning and that was the end of it.
ReplyDeleteMerry X-mas to you and your family Worfeus. :)
Johnny moo moo
Merry Christmas LYDIA to you and your family. BTW, the present with no name on it is from me :)
ReplyDeleteAnd happy holidays to Stevie, Eric, Drewl, Rene, and eveyone...
Johnny moo moo :D
Merry Christmas Lydia, to you and your family. I hope that it is very blessed and brings wonderful memories. Thank you again for being such a real woman and inspiration; who looks to someone even more of an inspiration: God! Happy Holidays again!
ReplyDeleteJennifer
Your responsibility to them you must give,
ReplyDeleteYour life is still yours and yours to live,
If to them your responsibility you have not gave,
We all would live amid anarchy in our cave.
You see my liberal friend with each "right" you claim,
A responsibility comes you cannot abstain,
A price we must willingly submit,
To keep our democracy well and fit.
SONG OF ERIC 12:05
PS, Merry Christmas to all
OK, OK, "claim" and "abstain" was weak....lol
ReplyDeleteHI, Lydia, and thank you for the compliment. I haven't been online much lately due to health issues, but I check your blog now when I get a chance and have finally started reading all the comments. Those who come here to harass you seem to thankfully be finding better things to do with their time. I hope that continues.
ReplyDeleteI hope that you and all others here have had a Merry Christmas, Happy Hanukkah, Happy Kwanzaa, Happy Solstice, or whatever holiday they seem to observe, and I hope we all have a wonderful and peaceful new year!
Rebecca in OK
To edit my above post, "Seem to observe" was not what I meant to say. I inserted a sentence and decided to delete the next sentence, and I missed one word.
ReplyDeleteIt should have said "choose" to observe.
Rebecca in OK
Hi Lydia:
ReplyDeleteI hope you and your family are having a wonderful Christmas vacation and that you all have a happy new year. Thank you so much for all of your writings and for the acknowledgement in your last post to us. That really made my day. :D
But I have to let you know I'm a man. :D
I know it’s the either way name thing. lol.
Your fellow Christian friend,
Rene
Hi Everyone!
ReplyDeleteWorf, I am touched by your comments made. Thank you, you are respectful as well.
Eric, you've shown great sign for stamina.
I hope you all had a great holiday, and that the New Year is even better.
Have friends in from California and have been doing a lot of entertaining and end-of-the-year stuff at work for my corporations - I'm an accountant. So I have decided to pop on to see if I've missed anything.
So, again, Happy New Year, I'm sure I'll run into you again soon.
Plenty of debate in 2006 I'm sure.
:-)
Lydia: Im not a slug! :) - I am just an individual who is convinced that God is a lazy chicken who, quite clearly, makes big mistakes, then takes the easy way out by destroying what he has created by way of a flood, thereby proving he is not perfect, which allows me to question his worthiness of someone who has any sound judgement at all? Should all human beings follow in Gods footsteps and wipe out their children if they are not satisfied with them or their behaviour? Are there any Christians out there who are brave enough to say that this would be wrong?
ReplyDeleteMankind does NOT need religion or God to be kind to one another or to believe in her/himself. On the contrary, it is the above items that create conflict, confusion, and destruction.
I do, however, agree with you that mankind could be more helpful towards one another even though my kindness and good efforts has always resulted in me being taken advantage of.
This "God loves us" malarchy makes me laugh. Without taking away free will, I see no reason why God (who is not perfect) cant stop being so shy and spend a little phyiscal time with his children and offer a little guidance and support? When my daughter was in need, I went through intoxicating efforts to be by her side physically and emotionally. His love is half hearted at best and could never praise Him for what He considers to be an honor to live on this planet - I also dislike being tested.
My intentions are not to convince people of my beliefs.........I simply want answers like everyone else.
You have a very nice looking family, however, the dog looks a little bummed out. I love the piano, its my favourite instrument. Got TCFC dvd for Christmas and Lil Miss moo moo thinks your too self concious as you always seem to be picking on yourself during commentary with Deborah. Although you have very nice eyes, it does look like if I were to slap you on the back to say hello, they might pop out and fall on the floor. Dont worry, they are not "buggy".
Johnny moo moo
aethist
Hey I have the new TCFC DVD and I really loved Lydia's commentary! She sounds so real and makes fun of herself as a blonde bombshell. It shows she's got a lot of humility and is very real. It must have been hard being a sex symbol and having to keep up the looks thing...
ReplyDeletegood work and keep blogging. We need your brand of God; it's not the kind of God that you're thinking of J. Moo Moo. It's the spirit of love and it's inside us and everywhere and it gets bigger the more you think loving thoughts. Your reality is where you choose to put your thoughts. I'm into metaphysics so I know what Lydia is talking about. Seek and you shall find. Good Luck, and happy new year!
James W.
Thanx James W and "Happy New Year" to you as well. I did attend a youth group many years ago in an attempt to pick up chicks, however, smitten and curious by the weird people around me, I made a genuine, from the heart effort, to see something I had not yet seen. Unable to feel this great love from God that everyone else seemed to be astonishingly enveloped by, I soon came to realize that all these people had some crisis in their lives whereas I did not?
ReplyDeleteI shall never forget the broken young woman who appeared to be begging God (with little effect) for salvation from a planet that simply does not care.
Johnny moo moo
aethist
Ahhhh.......Worfeus, I thought maybe you would be tied down with the Wil Wheaton blog; I did check it out but I like this one better. Anyways, you may very well be right concerning your 1:32 PM post and have to keep myself in check.
ReplyDeleteAlso, I think its very nice of Lydia to suggest that people start focusing on the good they can do, therefore, I will perform (for a joke) an act of kindness towards someone else other than a family member.
Although our beliefs are different, our missions are very similiar and mine can be best described by Charlie Sheen at the end of Platoon when he says: ...." to teach to others what we know, and to try with whats left of our lives to find a goodness and meaning to this life."
Johnny moo moo
P.S. Hope you drank too much egg nog (spiked) and had a good X-mas.
Hey Johnny Moo Moo -- I would love to have this discussion about God with you, and will give you some ideas to think about in the coming weeks. No time to go into detail right now, but contemplate this and let it sink into your mind: God is Love. I love your open spirit -- so hopefully Happy New Year.
ReplyDeletexoxo,
Lydia
I really hope this "worfeus" person got a new pocket protector in thier stocking this year.He/she needs to get away form the computer for a bit and get some fresh air.
ReplyDelete