The World Mourns NedaHer name was Neda Agha-Soltan. She was 26 and loved pop music. She was killed by the Basij and has become an icon of the resistance.
TWITTER UPDATESFollow me on Twitter: http://twitter.com/LydiaCornell
THE GOOD FROM IRAN: First victory: World doesn't look at us as terrorists anymore! #iran #iranelection
PRAY FOR NEDA, her family and all Iranians
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HEALTH CARE, LIKE POLICE & FIRE DEPT
SHOULD NOT BE FOR PROFIT!
WHY ARE THEY SO AFRAID?
Republican lawmakers are afraid of a lower cost health care option, because they are afraid people will choose it!
Republican lawmakers are afraid of a lower cost health care option, because they are afraid people will choose it!
Medicaid and Medical are already the best socialized medicine we have in this country. Of course in France they have a much better system, as in every other industrialized nation.
Read more below, but first, let's say a prayer for Neda, the young woman killed in Iran simply for kneeling in protest. And then this weird story..
Is this right? 165 closed Circuit TV cameras spying on the city of Lancaster, which has a population of 55,000. Who is watching everyone through these cameras all day long? Not the government, but a private company that says it wants to reduce crime. Hmmm. Sounds suspicious. What about our rights to privacy? Could evidence on these tapes ever be used to blackmail people in divorce cases? Could evidence ever be misinterpreted? Isn't it kind of creepy to be watched from every corner all day long? "No one has the right to see who comes in and out of my front door," says one L.A. Times reader. This has crossed the line, don't you think? Or do you. Maybe I'm wrong.
MASSIVE REPUBLICAN PROPAGANDA AGAINST LOW-COST HEALTHCARE FLOPS: 72% WANT A CHOICE! Republican lawmakers are afraid of a lower cost health care option, because they are afraid people will choose it!
When It Comes to Health Care, Why Do Republicans (and Some Centrist Democrats) Hate Americans? by Mitchell Bard, 06.22.2009 http://www.huffingtonpost.com/mitchell-bard
You see, the Republicans are speaking out of both sides of their mouths. They are quick to tell you, as Graham did, how terrible government-run health care would be, with long waits for inferior service. But when you argue for a public option, with people being given the chance to keep what they have (with private insurers) or opt for a new public option (especially for those who don't currently have any insurance) that would compete with the private companies, then the Republicans say that the private insurers would be driven out of business because they can't compete with the public plan. But if the government-run plan would be so bad, why would the private insurers lose to it? Shouldn't Americans, terrified at the big bad government trying to run their health care decisions, run screaming away from the new public plan and into the arms of the wonderful private insurers they adore? What is the risk? And if the government-run plan is so good it would be an improvement over the private insurers, why are the Republicans against it (if they can't admit that they are protecting the business interests over the health of Americans)? Isn't the goal better care at lower costs?
_____________________________
On Terrorist Watch List, but Allowed to Buy Guns
By ERIC LICHTBLAU
June 20, 2009
WASHINGTON — People on the government’s terrorist watch list tried to buy guns nearly 1,000 times in the last five years, and federal authorities cleared the purchases 9 times out of 10 because they had no legal way to stop them, according to a new government report.
In one case, a person on the list was able to buy more than 50 pounds of explosives.
Gun purchases must be approved unless federal officials can find some other disqualification of the would-be buyer, like being a felon, an illegal immigrant or a drug addict.
“This is a glaring omission, and it’s a security issue,” Senator Frank R. Lautenberg, the New Jersey Democrat who requested the study, said in an interview.
Mr. Lautenberg plans to introduce legislation on Monday that would give the attorney general the discretion to block gun sales to people on terror watch lists.
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/06/20/us/politics/20watch.html
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BREAKING NEWS: During the last five years, over 1,000 people on Terror Watch list bought guns. "Gun rights advocates said showing up on a terrorist watch list should not be grounds for being denied a gun." - New York Times
Read more below, but first, let's say a prayer for Neda, the young woman killed in Iran simply for kneeling in protest. And then this weird story..
___________________________________
I have to post this again from the New York Times: "Gun rights advocates (NRA) said showing up on a terrorist watch list should not be grounds for being denied a gun."
ARE THEY CRAZY??
A VIDEO-CAMERA ON EVERY CORNER? SPYING FOR PROFIT ON AMERICANS
Is this right? 165 closed Circuit TV cameras spying on the city of Lancaster, which has a population of 55,000. Who is watching everyone through these cameras all day long? Not the government, but a private company that says it wants to reduce crime. Hmmm. Sounds suspicious. What about our rights to privacy? Could evidence on these tapes ever be used to blackmail people in divorce cases? Could evidence ever be misinterpreted? Isn't it kind of creepy to be watched from every corner all day long? "No one has the right to see who comes in and out of my front door," says one L.A. Times reader. This has crossed the line, don't you think? Or do you. Maybe I'm wrong.
MASSIVE REPUBLICAN PROPAGANDA AGAINST LOW-COST HEALTHCARE FLOPS: 72% WANT A CHOICE! Republican lawmakers are afraid of a lower cost health care option, because they are afraid people will choose it!
When It Comes to Health Care, Why Do Republicans (and Some Centrist Democrats) Hate Americans? by Mitchell Bard, 06.22.2009 http://www.huffingtonpost.com/mitchell-bard
You see, the Republicans are speaking out of both sides of their mouths. They are quick to tell you, as Graham did, how terrible government-run health care would be, with long waits for inferior service. But when you argue for a public option, with people being given the chance to keep what they have (with private insurers) or opt for a new public option (especially for those who don't currently have any insurance) that would compete with the private companies, then the Republicans say that the private insurers would be driven out of business because they can't compete with the public plan. But if the government-run plan would be so bad, why would the private insurers lose to it? Shouldn't Americans, terrified at the big bad government trying to run their health care decisions, run screaming away from the new public plan and into the arms of the wonderful private insurers they adore? What is the risk? And if the government-run plan is so good it would be an improvement over the private insurers, why are the Republicans against it (if they can't admit that they are protecting the business interests over the health of Americans)? Isn't the goal better care at lower costs?
_____________________________
On Terrorist Watch List, but Allowed to Buy Guns
By ERIC LICHTBLAU
June 20, 2009
WASHINGTON — People on the government’s terrorist watch list tried to buy guns nearly 1,000 times in the last five years, and federal authorities cleared the purchases 9 times out of 10 because they had no legal way to stop them, according to a new government report.
In one case, a person on the list was able to buy more than 50 pounds of explosives.
Gun purchases must be approved unless federal officials can find some other disqualification of the would-be buyer, like being a felon, an illegal immigrant or a drug addict.
“This is a glaring omission, and it’s a security issue,” Senator Frank R. Lautenberg, the New Jersey Democrat who requested the study, said in an interview.
Mr. Lautenberg plans to introduce legislation on Monday that would give the attorney general the discretion to block gun sales to people on terror watch lists.
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/06/20/us/politics/20watch.html
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I've always wondered why my former fellow Republicans were so damned frightened of a National Health Care plan? To here them talk, you'd that "Socialized Medicine" was right up there with "Satanic Baby Killing Cannibal Cults" in terms of evil.
ReplyDeleteHere's something that the TheoCons don't like to talk about.
One of the major reasons that we are losing jobs to foreign countries is that the health care costs here are so prohibitive. It's cheaper in the long run to outsource jobs to nations that have a national health service.
Therefore, a National Health Plan in this country would IMO, make us more competitive and possibly slow down out sourcing.
Republicans are running scared because, they are one by one, actually, many by many...are being exposed for the crimes they have commited. Self severing people. The last 8 years of what happened to our beautiful country and all its people...is now an exposed crime. Did George and Company really think we were that dumb? While we were terrified over terrorists...and watching the repug fed media..."the war on terror" was a shameful fraud...a distraction for us here in the states. We were being robbed blind by our own leaders. The people didn't select them...the money bought them...and they delivered. All the while "the war on terror" (not the war on oil...or the 'illusion of terror') ran on and on and on...what the hell are they fighting for? Everyone is dying over there...Americans and regular normal people just like you and me from the war torn countries.
ReplyDeleteIf George and Company wanted to battle the war on terror...HE SHOULD HAVE DONE IT RIGHT HERE IN AMERICA...SECURING THE BORDERS...SHOWING UP WHEN THE SUPPOSEDLY UNBREACHED LEVYS IN NEW ORLEANS FLOODED AND KILLED PEOPLE JUST LIKE YOU AND ME.
Everything they stood for was so Un-American.
I love what good ole Joe Biden said.
When George and Company were elected (yeah right) into office...George put up a "FOR SALE" sign on the White House's front lawn.
Freedom bought changed hands and was sold.
Those that let, without any feelings of...I don't know...shame...sadness...guilt... etc... are now being head hunted... where did the money go? Why did you do that? How could you let that happen?
They are scared because the new "Left Team" is coming to get them...and they have no where to hide.
Pray.
God forgives you...and we as Christians should forgive you...
BUT...not everyone is like that...
Sorry.
I was thinking what I had written was really harsh...then I saw Mitt Romney's face (he and his slick $200 haircut...and nasty snear) and I thought of him looking like...and acting like my old drug dealer. I saw Sarah Palin's face...and her obnoxious and inappropriate winks to the camera...and how she had self served her state for her own tailor fit needs...Then I saw Cheney...and his pinched angry face...allowing and planning torture...and war before getting into the White House...what do you call a man like him? He reminds me of the guy that caused WW2.
ReplyDeleteAnd Big and Little George...Daddy's War...
George and his (not on drugs again...mmmm) twitching, messed up...beady eyed face...in his rare public speeches...lying like his father...lying...lying...lying.
I think of the women behind these men...women are the hearts and the love and support technically...where were they?
Nah...my comment was just and due and right.
Ladies and Gentlemen...
In the event of The Obama Administration coming to get you...brace your backs to the cushion...put your head between your knees...then....give your ass a good kiss goodbye...
i am not too up on the debate over health care, and the idea that there would be competing ideas in the private sector and in the public is not too odious. what i do know is that socialized health care is not all it is cracked up to be. one of my former professors and good friends is from italy, and they have that kind of health care there. his dad recently had a heart attack, and after being stabilized, he went out of the country for care. he could afford it, and if he had waited for the government run system to respond to him, he would not have made it.
ReplyDeleteand just because it is cheaper for business to operate in another country because of health care, does not mean the care is better there. you guys should know that. businesses will do what is in their own best interests, if they are exploiting labor somewhere that allows it legally, it wont bother them much.
big k
i am sorry, he has cancer, they found it during the heart scare, and he went out of the country for that. sorry.
ReplyDeleteYea, that never happens with Insurance companies, huh?
ReplyDeleteAnd of course a unverifiable personal anecdote is worth about as much as the guy purporting it, which in Big K's case means it's worth nothing.
In England and Canada they enjoy excellent health care, and the fact that they vote to keep it tells us all we need to know about it.
Guys like Big K trust the government to put a fire out, or protect him from criminals via the police and federal law enforcement agencies, but he doesn't want them giving anything that would actually help them, i.e. medical care.
It's ok if the government sends our kids to school, but if those kids get sick or injured, f$#k em.
So goes the mind of the right wing hypocrite, who claims to believe in Christ but hasn't an ounce of Christs teachings in him.
Frank Frey said...
ReplyDeleteHere's something that the TheoCons don't like to talk about.
One of the major reasons that we are losing jobs to foreign countries is that the health care costs here are so prohibitive. It's cheaper in the long run to outsource jobs to nations that have a national health service.
Therefore, a National Health Plan in this country would IMO, make us more competitive and possibly slow down out sourcing.
Well your humble opinion is right on target.
That's the number one reason for losing jobs in the US. Nationalized health care means lower company overhead which means jobs in the US which means increased revenue which means more taxes being paid which means ....
It's a win win.
But don't tell Big K that.
He's too busy reading talking points from his party.
hey worf,
ReplyDeleteyou know i dont trust the police protection, that is why i own my own guns. you knew that.
i dont trust the government with a whole lot, actually. i know they are needed, but should be as small as possible, in my opinion.
and the personal anecdote is necessarily vague since i am not sure if the people involved want their names out there. especially on political blogs. you should know that too. but his real world experience with exactly the subject is noteworthy. and btw, he supported obama for president and shares many of the views expressed here. he is not a conservative by any measure.
massive government involvement would mean massive government spending, and massive tax increases. things that have historically not helped job creation, or business growth. and once you buy into it, there is no turning back. you cannot put a sunset provision on something like that, so caution is rightly observed when implementing something of that scale and importance.
Kevin said...
ReplyDeletehey worf,
you know i dont trust the police protection, that is why i own my own guns. you knew that
Actually I just thought that was because you were another gun freak too afraid to live in civilized society without the barrel of a gun to suckle himself to sleep at night.
:|
Who knew?
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteKevin said...
ReplyDeletemassive government involvement would mean massive government spending, and massive tax increases
Tax re-appropriations you mean?
As for the "massive" government involvement, we're talking about the government paying for it.
:|
Not giving breast exams.
Big K said...
ReplyDeletethings that have historically not helped job creation, or business growth.
Really?
So the Federal\DoD job sector hasn't helped with "job creation", or "business growth"?
:|
Once again, who knew?
Law enforcement and the Public School systems haven't created jobs and business growth in the supporting industries?
ReplyDeleteThe US Postal service hasn't created millions of US Jobs, and spawned competitive business growth?
:\
Who knew?
The VA Medical Hospitals provide "sub-standard" medical care?
ReplyDeleteThose titanium limbs they're designing and creating isn't spawning massive advancements in medical treatments for the disabled and helping to create new medical markets and job growth in the private sector?
The National Institutes of Health provides "substandard" medical care and treatment and substandard medical research and technology?
:|
Who knew?
NASA doesn't create jobs, or develop lateral business growth in the private sector?
ReplyDeleteThey're poorly run and haven't produced amazing leaps forward in research and technology?
:|
Who knew?
Hey Big K.
ReplyDelete:|
Newt Gingrich just called and asked if you'd consider going back into retirement.
"Actually I just thought that was because you were another gun freak too afraid to live in civilized society without the barrel of a gun to suckle himself to sleep at night."
ReplyDeleteSay Worfy, didn't you once tell me YOU owned a gun or two yerself?
GHOST OF WORFEUS said...
ReplyDelete"The VA Medical Hospitals provide "sub-standard" medical care?"
You guys claimed they were under Bush, although Cliffy later amended that to say they provided good care under "competent leadership"...
"As for the "massive" government involvement, we're talking about the government paying for it."
ReplyDeleteYeah, and just where does the "government" get their money?
From US under threat of jail or cabinet position...
(depends on your political persuasion)
"In England and Canada they enjoy excellent health care, and the fact that they vote to keep it tells us all we need to know about it."
ReplyDeleteYes, so "excellent" that the rich go to other countries for their "excellent health care".
However the poor ARE condemned to the government run programs that leave many with serious conditions on waiting lists for months sometimes years.
Why do liberals ALWAYS define equality as everyone being equally miserable?
And Worfy?
ReplyDeleteName ONE entitlement program anyone EVER voted to do away with.
But it sure doesn't stop everyone from bitching about it does it?
Ever heard seniors bitching about their Social Security? Medicare?
Ever heard the poor raving about how great medicaid is?
You might ask Mrs. Messiah about the patient dumping her hospital engaged in under her tenure...
Oh and those waiting lists? You might get on one IF a cost analysis shows that you'll live long enough to make it worthwhile.
ReplyDeleteThe fact is that there ISN'T enough money to provide health care for everyone.
Nationalized health care is RATIONED health care.
Lydia said "
ReplyDeleteWHY ARE REPUBLICANS AFRAID?
Republican lawmakers are afraid of a lower cost health care option, because they are afraid people will choose it"
Outstanding Lydia..........you nailed it the repugs are anti-choice........they hate giving the people the right to choose they want the business elite of the insurance companies to dictate what type of treatment if any they can get..........because the insurance company lobbyists pay to get and keep them elected rather than act for the public good.
Duncetron said "Oh and those waiting lists? You might get on one IF a cost analysis shows that you'll live long enough to make it worthwhile.
ReplyDeleteThe fact is that there ISN'T enough money to provide health care for everyone.
Nationalized health care is RATIONED health care."
No IDIOTRON............National Healthcare is healthcare where the premiums dont go up about 20% a year so companies and people cant afford it and either drop coverage or move god paying jobs out of the country which decreases our tax base.
Mike, why would they move god paying jobs out of the country? Companies are NOT required to provide health care.
ReplyDelete(besides I thought those jobs were leaving because of Bushes evil outsourcing...)
And besides that, IF it was a god paying job, they could afford health care themselves now couldn't they?
Oh and Mikey, do some reading on the health care plan in Taxechusetts. That's the one they keep calling a model.
ReplyDeleteBlogger Voltron said...
ReplyDelete"In England and Canada they enjoy excellent health care, and the fact that they vote to keep it tells us all we need to know about it."
Yes, so "excellent" that the rich go to other countries for their "excellent health care".
However the poor ARE condemned to the government run programs that leave many with serious conditions on waiting lists for months sometimes years.
Why do liberals ALWAYS define equality as everyone being equally miserable?"
Hey stupid troll If the overwhelmng majority of people which are the middle class and poor freely choose to vote for national healhcare in Canada and we are losing more and more good paying manufacturing jobs to Canada due to health care I think thats a very clear and convincing sign THEIR health care sysyem is superior and ours doesnt work.
It scares the living shit out of you clowns to give the PEOPLE the RIGHT TO CHOOSE.........weather its national health care or abortion.........you want to deny choice and dictate what rights others can have.........because as usual you cant argue the facts so you argue lies, halftruths and fear monger.
ReplyDeleteHealth care is a "right"???
ReplyDeleteCan you show me that in the Constitution?
Ok Mikey, lets discard the "lies" and "fear monger"ing.
ReplyDeletePoint out my "half truths" and we'll start there.
Blogger Voltron said...
ReplyDeleteKevin,
You didn't miss it. He never mentioned it before that post.
He was losing the argument and needed to pull out a 'get out of jail free' card."
Listen you gutless grannyhipped pussy.............next time you feel the urge to shoot off your big fat mouth and disrespect me...........do it to my face and see what happens next you piece of scum.......and bring that 9mm pea shooter with you so I can take it away from you remove the ammo and shove it up your ass.
Only a total dirtbag loser with no decency whatsoever would my father dying was an "excuse" for not cleaning your clock in a debate.
First of all you assclown i've had more inportant things on my mind that arguing with a lying babbling inbred retard.
Secondly I dont remember you EVER winning a debate..........now maybe you might have pulled one out out of the tens of thousands we've had over the last 4 years just like hell might have frozen over once or twice but I dont remember it happening.
How can we even begin a rational debate when you can't even acknowledge givens.
ReplyDeleteWhether you like it or not, there ARE many people on long waiting lists in Canada for serious illnesses.
AND there are many people in England denied life saving treatment because of cost and their age.
It may not make their health care better or worse than our system, but it IS happening.
Voltron said...
ReplyDeleteSay Worfy, didn't you once tell me YOU owned a gun or two yerself?
No "Volty", I didn't tell you I owned a "gun or two".
Healthcare is JUST as much a right as having the government insure the public safety by giving us a military and a police force to keep us safe........you need to be healthy to lead a good life and be safe.
ReplyDeleteYou know life liberty and the pursuit of happiness.........you need access to good medical care to live and be happy just like you need a military to keep us safe and insure our liberties..........funny how you ONLY worship the military part of that.
That's funny Worf, I distinctly remember being told once that if my inbred ass ever came to your place in ole Virginny I'd be staring down the barrel of something...
ReplyDeleteVoltron said...
ReplyDeleteYou guys claimed they were under Bush, although Cliffy later amended that to say they provided good care under "competent leadership"..
Who is "you guys"?
Just because you "guys" can't fight your own battles and play round robin rather than handling your own debates, doesn't mean I do.
As for complaints on the VA, all I ever complained about (and I believe Clif but I won't speak for him like you speak for Big K) was Bush's cutting of funding to the VA skippy.
In fact I expressed how well the VA took care of my father, so if you're going to start inventing stuff then you and Big K should get a room and leave me out of it.
So what else is a "right" Mike?
ReplyDeleteA house?, I mean we gotta take care of the homeless right?
What if you can't get to the doctor for your whiz bang national health care because you don't own a car or live near public transportation?
Is a car a right?
Voltron said...
ReplyDeleteThat's funny Worf, I distinctly remember being told once that if my inbred ass ever came to your place in ole Virginny I'd be staring down the barrel of something...
Yea well that is funny since I'd never make such a statement.
But you would look funny flossing your teeth with my bootlaces.
And as for your pissing and whining about the wealthy having to resort to expending their massive resources to seek out better health care than the average person gets under national healthcare.............Why shouldnt they have to spend their own money if they want something supeerior to what the average person gets?
ReplyDeleteYou clowns are all for denying choice to the masses and letting the corporate elite dicate what dole the peasants deserve if anything.........you even refer to national healthcare as Socialized medicine and help for the working class as welfare.........yet you seem to think ONLY the wealthy elite deserve corporate welfare.
Your outrage at the wealthy having to spend their vast resources to seek out better healthcare is very telling.............let the poor and middle class starve and go without but how dare the wealthy have to spend their vast fortunes to seek out BETTER healthcare than the masses who cant afford any healthcare or who have crappy health care where the sysyem is a rigged for profit sham where the object is to deny coverage and access to healthcare to as many as possible so the CEO's can reap huge bonus's while the masses die because they are denied access to health care and good paying jobs keep leaving the country because of rising health care costs.
Voltron said...
ReplyDeleteHow can we even begin a rational debate when you can't even acknowledge givens.
Whether you like it or not, there ARE many people on long waiting lists in Canada for serious illnesses.
AND there are many people in England denied life saving treatment because of cost and their age.
Wrong.
As in all situations nothings perfect, but most people in Canada and England have no complaints about the care they receive.
Voltron said...
ReplyDeleteHealth care is a "right"???
Can you show me that in the Constitution?
Show me in the constitution where it makes provisions for the President to wage war.
Or where it says Public Schools.
Or Police, or Fire Depts.
Or Sanitation.
Or the right to bear arms outside of a "well organized militia".
This is a simple issue.
ReplyDeleteThe VA gives excellent medical care to our Veterans.
Is it perfect?
No.
Nothing is.
But it works.
NIH gives excellent care to our leaders and dignitaries, and provides some of the best medical research in the world.
For a few cents I can walk down to the street corner and mail a letter or package and in a few days have it arrive anywhere in the country.
And NASA walked on the moon, and brings us the most cutting edge technology in the world.
The fact is good government works.
But inbred moronic republicans who can't tie their shoes without instructions can't make it work, so they declare, "WE CAN'T DO IT SO IT MUST NOT WORK".
Well, it does work.
When you're not in charge.
Voltron's off checking his collection of Worfeus quotes.
ReplyDeleteTake your parotted RNC talking points about Socialized Medicine and rationed healthcare and shove em up your troll ass............people in Canada CHOOSE to keep their national healthcare despite the insurance companies best efforts to get a rigged for profit sham of a healthcare system where the object is to deny access to medical coverage and let people die to increase profits.
ReplyDelete"the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed" worf. and unless you missed it, the supreme court held it as a personal right somewhat recently.
ReplyDeletehowever, police, fire, health insurance, lollypops, marrying anything you feel like. none of those are rights guaranteed in the constitution. its funny how much people can imply from it though. there is no expressed right to privacy either. it just isnt there. you guys would say it was left out, i say it was deliberately omited.
as to worf owning a gun, i remember him telling me once that he would never touch the things. he had an uncle who came back from a war and never picked up one again and he thought that was cool and blah blah blah. so i dont think he has one. i cant say anything about threats though. that is between yous guys.
big k
Blogger GHOST OF WORFEUS said...
ReplyDeleteThis is a simple issue.
The VA gives excellent medical care to our Veterans.
Is it perfect?
No.
Nothing is.
But it works.
NIH gives excellent care to our leaders and dignitaries, and provides some of the best medical research in the world.
For a few cents I can walk down to the street corner and mail a letter or package and in a few days have it arrive anywhere in the country.
And NASA walked on the moon, and brings us the most cutting edge technology in the world.
The fact is good government works.
But inbred moronic republicans who can't tie their shoes without instructions can't make it work, so they declare, "WE CAN'T DO IT SO IT MUST NOT WORK".
Well, it does work.
When you're not in charge."
EXACTLY!!!!!!!!!!
What I cant wrap my head around is these repug knucleheads love big government if they are spying on citizens or dropping bombs or torturing people...........but providing healthcare to people is the the end of the world as we know it.........thats why these people are pathetic laughingstocks and thats why they will get their ass handed to then in the NEXT election as well.........they are completely out of touch with mainstream America.
mike,
ReplyDeletei wasnt pissing and moaning about the rich having to spend their resources. i was pointing out that the waiting list is so bad that they could die before the state could respond. in my friends case, if the cancer was not operated on immediately, his dad ran the risk of it not being operable by the time the state got to him. so, he got on a plane and got it done elsewhere. i dont care that he spent his money, i care that there are a lot of people who cant do that, and your solution will leave them in the cold.
our system sucks, and i dont have an answer for it. but i am saying you might want to rip a page out of your own book and not give the pres a "rubber stamp" without vetting it. i dont think that is too much to ask.
big k
and worf,
ReplyDeletesocial security is a mess, and is going to only get worse. that can not be denied. public school, police, fire departments, dead animal pickup, the dmv, yeah, they create jobs. very few jobs when we need millions of them. and we all know how good some of the people are who are in those jobs. i am a product of the public school system, and you cant stop yelling about my typos, for instance.
big k
Nor was I Kevin.
ReplyDeleteThe rich will simply go where ever they have to to get the health care they want. And more power to them.
It's the poor that will be stuck with the care the left wants to impose.
Our healthcare system sucks and Canada's is far superior.........thyats not giving the president a free pass Little Strawman......thats simply stating a fact.
ReplyDeleteTell me how many people lose everything and are forced into bankruptcy in Canada because they get sick or injured and dont have health insurance?
Another point Kevin, is that those government jobs, be it federal, state or local are taxpayer supported and do not provide much support to the economy at large.
ReplyDeleteIt's private sector jobs that actually grow the economy.
sure mike, and while i am looking up the backruptcy numbers in canada related to medical care, you can look up the number of people turned away from hospitals across the boarder because they are full.
ReplyDeletehttp://www2.canada.com/montrealgazette/news/story.html?id=9c3d0790-c709-416f-a860-bda0cea61431
http://www.cmaj.ca/cgi/content/full/171/4/321-a
wow, what great coverage they had...
you know volt, i should really revise that and say its not poor people that would get screwed, its everyone who is not super rich. that means all of us.
ReplyDeleteDuncetron babbled"Nor was I Kevin.
ReplyDeleteThe rich will simply go where ever they have to to get the health care they want. And more power to them.
It's the poor that will be stuck with the care the left wants to impose."
yeah your SO WORRIED about the poor that you want them to keep a rigged sham of a healthcare system where the objective is to deny access to health coverage to as many as possible and allow them to die just to maximize profits for the greedy CEO's..........thats how concerned for the poor you are duncetron..........Why are you so hell bent on NOT ALLOWING people to choose which healthcare system they actually want.
YOU seem to feel that denying people to choose what they prefer and YOU dicating what they should be able to receive is the way to go.............lets see how that plays out at the polls in 2010
Oh I see the tag teams here. Big K, shored up by his RNC cube partner, Volt.
ReplyDeleteKevin said...
"the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed" worf. and unless you missed it, the supreme court held it as a personal right somewhat recently.
however, police, fire, health insurance, lollypops, marrying anything you feel like. none of those are rights guaranteed in the constitution
Well no, the right to bear arms is tied to a "well regulated militia".
But the courts have given you pussies the right to suckle yourselves to sleep at night with your 357, so whats the problem?
Saying that something is or isn't in the constitution doesn't mean it can't be a right as our laws develop.
The US code is 100,000's of pages long, and none of it's found in the Constitution.
Just because somethings not in the Constitution, doesn't mean it's not something we need.
And I don't know of any human beings who's bodies are impervious to disease, illness or injury.
We believe that a country that will not care for it's sick or injured is less than decent.
ReplyDeleteYou believe that the sick and injured should fend for themselves.
So, I have a solution.
Lets let all you cocksuckers who want the right to have guns, but not the right to have an injured child cared for, fend for yourselves.
The rest of us, the majority, will have health care and care for the sick and injured in our borders.
Kevin said"sure mike, and while i am looking up the backruptcy numbers in canada related to medical care, you can look up the number of people turned away from hospitals across the boarder because they are full."
ReplyDeleteHey stupid how bout we see how many more millions of people in the USA are denied coverage by the greedy insurance companies than are turned away becaus of full hospitals in Canada first........how about that troll?
mike,
ReplyDeletei was an insurance agent for 8 years. auto and home insurance, but the principles are the same. i can assure you that they do not want people to die to maximize profits for a few people. unfortunately, the problem is quite complex, and difficult to summarize on a blog. the idea of insurance is to spread the risk, so if you are the unlucky one who gets a big financial hit, the rest of the community helps out. unfortunately, this also means that if you are a guaranteed risk, insurance either does not want you, or you will pay more for it. if you are really pissed about the situation, next time you are in the hospital, get an itemized bill. those 50 dollar tylenol are a big part of the problem too. when the hospitals pump up the cost, insurance premiums go up. when you go to the hospital and they order unnecissary tests, they are not helping you.
also, one last potentially suprising thing is the government has a big hand in the insurance industry already. it is highly regulated. if the company actually makes too much profit the department of insurance comes down really hard on them. companies can neither make too much or loose to much by law. they make money by investing somewhere else, like the stock market. they want to pay out in benefits what they bring in, in premiums, ideally.
big k
Blogger Kevin said...
ReplyDeletemike,
i was an insurance agent for 8 years. auto and home insurance, but the principles are the same. i can assure you that they do not want people to die to maximize profits for a few people."
And I can assure you your full of shit and a lying troll spewing RNC talking points!
Kevin said...
ReplyDeletesure mike, and while i am looking up the backruptcy numbers in canada related to medical care, you can look up the number of people turned away from hospitals across the boarder because they are full.
http://www2.canada.com/montrealgazette/news/story.html?id=9c3d0790-c709-416f-a860-bda0cea61431
http://www.cmaj.ca/cgi/content/full/171/4/321-a
wow, what great coverage they had...
Wow, Voltron's left nut speaks.
:D
Well fatso, I did read your "article" from the Gazette.
It was a story purported by ONE WOMAN.
ONE pregnant woman, who claims she was turned away, however the article states the hospital was closed due to a "national holiday".
Here.
Here's what the article you steered us to actually says, since you clearly didn't take the time to read it.
Yesterday was as a statutory holiday for many Quebec hospitals.
About 5,000 babies a year are delivered at St. Mary's, which is highly regarded as a birthing centre.
In March 2007, it was rated as one of the three best hospitals on the island of Montreal.
In terms of patient satisfaction, Quebec Health Minister François Legault put St. Mary's at the top of his list.
Last month, the province designated St. Mary's a university-affiliated hospital, which recognizes it as an accredited teaching hospital.
Gee, that article seems to support our position, instead of yours.
:|
Go figure.
Kevin said...
ReplyDeletemike,
i was an insurance agent for 8 years
Now THAT I believe.
:|
That merely confirms the "slimeball" factor.
Wait Time Alliance
ReplyDeleteStill want to call me wrong Worf?, Mikey?
This is from a group of CANADIAN doctors.
Check out the percentage of people who waited more than 18 weeks to see a doctor for chronic illnesses...
Voltron said...
ReplyDeleteAnother point Kevin, is that those government jobs, be it federal, state or local are taxpayer supported and do not provide much support to the economy at large.
It's private sector jobs that actually grow the economy.
Really genius?
So NASA doesn't create large numbers of jobs and business development in the private sector?
The US Military and Department of Defense doesn't create large numbers of jobs and business development in the private sector?
:|
Wow. You're really smart, huh?
So building schools, roads, bridges, federal buildings, military installations, post offices, ....all of this doesn't create jobs and growth in the private construction sector?
ReplyDelete:|
I bet you had to go to a "special school" to "know" such things, huh?
"The only reason we haven't been able to respond is because no one was around to respond on the weekend and Monday was a holiday."
ReplyDelete"Faced with a doctor shortage, the Centre Hospitalier du Centre-de-la-Mauricie in Shawinigan-Sud had recently instituted a policy of closing its ED after 9 p.m. for walk-in cases and midnight for ambulances, until 8 a.m. the following morning."
both articles blamed doctor shortages, and that is the point volt and i are making. that the doctors have jobs is a given.
I know you're wrong.
ReplyDeleteSome people wait for weeks, but they get the treatment.
My friends 4 year old daughter lost her leg waiting for an "Insurance company" to authorize treatment.
So, what's your point?
No one says it's perfect genius.
But the fact is MOST Canadians, and MOST Brit's will tell you that they are completely satisfied with their health care.
And that is proven at the polls.
Of course, you say they vote for it because they don't like it, and it doesn't work, and ...you're really smart....
ReplyDeleteI thought we already assumed I favored military and defense spending Worf?
ReplyDeleteAnd I'll give you NASA as well.
However I'd like you to show me you can support a family for a lifetime by building only schools or military installations.
(Oh and by the way how many NEW military bases are being built these days? Last I read they've been closing quite a few...)
72% of Americans support national healthcare and 87% of Demacrats support it...........its just the backwash of America the, dregs of society the Volksturm like Volt and Little K and Crusty who oppose the will of the people.
ReplyDeletelets see where that gets you clowns in 2010.
Yes Worf, and like Gibbs recently asserted most Americans like their health care system too.
ReplyDeletebtw, all i did was pull out two of the top articles from a google search, if you want more, i can get them for you. or you can google them yourself. so seem to be in the mood for looking up stuff lately worf.
ReplyDeleteas for mike,
"And I can assure you your full of shit and a lying troll spewing RNC talking points!"
you should get worf to help you build stronger sentences to convey your point. i dont think that was an effective tone, as it was certainly not mature. and you can "assure" me all you want i am not what i say i am. it dosnt change the facts.
big k
Kevin said...
ReplyDeleteboth articles blamed doctor shortages, and that is the point volt and i are making. that the doctors have jobs is a given.
So?
The article also said they deliver 5000 babies a year and is rated one of the best.
There's always failures at ever hospital and no system will be perfect.
But all in all, it works.
Hundreds of millions of Canadians and Brits, French, etc live under the systems and they work for most people.
The fact is simple.
We think our country should care for its sick and injured.
You think it should not.
And I'm glad I'm not on your side of that line.
Worf said ""But the fact is MOST Canadians, and MOST Brit's will tell you that they are completely satisfied with their health care.
ReplyDeleteAnd that is proven at the polls."
EXACTLY while MOST Americans or over 3/4 of our country will tell you they ARE NOT SATISFIED with our current system..........But Volt ad Little K's argument is we feel you dont deserve to choose what YOU ACTUALLY WANT...........so we'll decide FOR YOU WHAT YOU GET!
And Mikey, IF you bothered to look at the polling data for that poll you'd KNOW that democrats were way over sampled.
ReplyDelete"First, the raw numbers: Out of 895 total poll respondents, 310 described themselves as independents, 301 Democrats, and 284 Republicans. That broke down as 34% independents, 34% Democrats, and 32% Republicans, just a two-point gap between the parties.
Those raw figures were then whisked away into the poll kitchen, the secret "weighting" ingredients were added, and the recipe came out puffed up with far more Democrats: 345 Independents, 339 Democrats, and 211 Republicans. That broke down into the stark 14-point gap between Democrats (38%) and Republicans (24%) that the Times cited, with independents at 38%."
Regarding the CBS/NYT poll, IF that's the one you're quoting...
"But Volt ad Little K's argument is we feel you dont deserve to choose what YOU ACTUALLY WANT...........so we'll decide FOR YOU WHAT YOU GET!"
ReplyDeleteActually Mikey, that seems to be YOUR argument to us...
"There's always failures at ever hospital and no system will be perfect."
ReplyDeleteooooooh typo!!! your point is moot!! you are a left wing troll!! etc, etc.
sorry, i had to get that one in. i really dont care.
we all want everyone cared for, worf. its a question of how. you think running to the government is the answer, i do not. the private sector is much better at handling these things. and volts link is a good one. their wait times are horrible.
also, those are just two examples, fine. you want more? i was actually looking for one i remembered in the news from a few months ago and found those first. if one of the best hospitals around is having a shortage of doctors, btw, that is not proof of your point. that means the rest are getting over run even worse.
big k
The fact that you clowns want to DENY the will of hundreds of millions of Americans to choose what they want and want to decide for them speaks volumes about the strength of your position or I should say lack of strength.
ReplyDeleteAll you knucleheads are is ANTI-CHOICE Party and the party of "NO".........your a bunch of fear mongering lying obstructionists that want to deny the will f the people for your own greedy self interests and your as transparent as can be to most Americans thy neither like nor trust you idiots.......as you'll soon learn after the 2010 elections.
Worf,
ReplyDeleteThe article I linked is by a consortium of CANADIAN doctors.
I am so glad I have you who knows so much more than they do about their system to put me straight....
The only people who don't want public health care are the brainwashed neoconservative hacks like you two clowns, who were told to not want it by their party leaders.
ReplyDeleteOnly a complete fool or rube would want to see a family member or friend suffer because some piece of shit like Kevin or the companies he works for, denied them coverage.
Or worse they couldn't afford it.
My mom died recently, due to an insurance company repeatedly denying needed preventative treatment, tests and finally surgery that could have helped her.
I make a damn good living, but I don't make that much. None of us did.
So we watched our mom die with substandard treatment.
But that damned insurance company had no problem paying for her to be doped up while she died.
That they payed for, and felt we should have been more grateful for their support.
You two are nothing more than brainwashed automatons parroting what your leaders told you to say.
No decent American would ever scoff at our country caring for its sick and injured.
Period.
Hey knuckle head..........spew some more canned prepackaged RNC talking points like a trained parrot who cant think for himself.
ReplyDeleteMikey,
ReplyDeleteThe REASON we have a representative republic is to protect the minority from the tyranny of the majority.
So why then would you insist that because (you think) you have the majority on your side that you have the right to dictate what health care plan I personally have?
Oh, and we'll see on those 2010 elections.
I don't know if we'll see a Republican takeover or anything, but there are a lot of people on BOTH sides of the aisle that think you guys have WAY over reached.
I personally see LOTS of new faces.
And here Volt.
ReplyDeleteHere's what the Canadian doctors have to say.
The 10th Annual
Health Care in Canada Survey
A national survey of health care providers, managers, and the public
Overall, would you say that Canadians are or are not receiving quality health care
services right now?
who says yes:
Public, 2007: 57%
Public, 2002: 53%
Doctors, 2007: 72%
Doctors, 2002: 72%
Pharmacists, 2007: 76%
Pharmacists, 2002: 81%
Nurses, 2007: 66%
Nurses, 2002, 64%
Managers, 2007: 91%
Managers, 2002: 74%
http://www.hcic-sssc.ca/pdf/2007_hcic.pdf
Is there issues with wait times?
ReplyDeleteSure. So what?
My mom waited for 6 months for approval for treatment and died while waiting.
In the US people die every day waiting for some scumbag at their insurance company to approve treatment.
In the US insurance companies ROUTINELY DROP people as they get ill and DENY COVERAGE, letting them die.
Americans aren't traveling to Canada for Health Care because their system doesn't work moron.
They're traveling their because it does.
Nobody's "scoffing" at caring for the sick or injured Worf.
ReplyDeleteI whole heartedly agree that our current system has huge gaps and needs to be fixed.
But the pro's and con's need to be rationally weighed. Not emotionally driven.
Mike, my condolences regarding your father. I lost my wife 10 years ago and my mother last year. It's very tough stuff, no doubt about it. My advice would be to spend as much time with friends and family as you need to. And don't be afraid to talk about it. And time, yes. I can tell you from experience, it DOES get better with time.
ReplyDeletemike,
ReplyDeleteno one is happy with their healthcare. i had my coverage double in price and the deductible went up in the last few years. if you think i was jumping around in unbridled glee afterwards think again. i think going after the medical industry is the first step. doctors are running around in hugely expensive cars and putting them in expensive homes, which is great unless you realize the hospitals they work for are broke. the hospitals will spend hundreds of thousands of dollars on equipment that will be obsolete in a short period of time, and is unable to be salvaged at the end of its useful life. they are horribly wasteful places. if the government stepped in and worked on that, i wouldnt have much of a problem there. i would hope that a competitive system could be implemented to fix the shortfalls of the system. that way little really needs to get changed.
the first thing i think everyone needs to come to terms with is that somewhere, all of our ideas, and even the presidents will leave someone out. it is such a big problem that you cant just put a bow on it and fix it.
big k
Blogger GHOST OF WORFEUS said...
ReplyDeleteThe only people who don't want public health care are the brainwashed neoconservative hacks like you two clowns, who were told to not want it by their party leaders.
Only a complete fool or rube would want to see a family member or friend suffer because some piece of shit like Kevin or the companies he works for, denied them coverage.
Or worse they couldn't afford it.
My mom died recently, due to an insurance company repeatedly denying needed preventative treatment, tests and finally surgery that could have helped her.
I make a damn good living, but I don't make that much. None of us did.
So we watched our mom die with substandard treatment.
But that damned insurance company had no problem paying for her to be doped up while she died.
That they payed for, and felt we should have been more grateful for their support.
You two are nothing more than brainwashed automatons parroting what your leaders told you to say.
No decent American would ever scoff at our country caring for its sick and injured.
Period."
Yep..........these two mindless parrots make me sick.
I watched my father die over the last month and same thing they gave him plenty of drugs.
I watched as the insurance companies almost forced me into bankruptcy after my motorcycle accident because I couldnt cough up the almost $60,000 in medical bills they demanded........I had a good job and was doing fine and one accident almost forced me into bankruptcy..........that would not have happened in Canada or any country with National healthcare where access to medical treatment wasnt a rigged sham where the objective was to DENY coverage.
That the Canadian system needs improvement is not in question.
ReplyDeleteBut it does work.
Better than ours.
And in England, it's even better.
Would universal health care be an overnight panacea for health care problems in our country?
Of course not, and no ones saying it would be.
But the cost of health care right now is prohibitive except for the extremely wealthy, and getting insurance ONCE ILLNESS IS DIAGNOSED IS IMPOSSIBLE.
Which is why my best friends 4 year old daughter, had to have her leg amputated due to cancer.
Because the insurance company took his premiums for years, then DROPPED HIS DAUGHTER when the disease was diagnosed after a few treatments.
That's the truth.
And scumbags who don't want to admit it are just pebbles in the way of change, who will be swept away with the tide.
Thanks Will!
ReplyDeleteMike said...
ReplyDeleteI watched my father die over the last month and same thing they gave him plenty of drugs.
Did he pass Mike? I was wondering after you'd written me.
I was thinking about you you know.
I'm sorry to hear that. I hope it wasn't too bad on you.
I didn't stop thinking about you once you emailed me that day.
Three things:
ReplyDelete1. I note that your statistics show MUCH higher satisfaction by medical professionals than the public.
(Also I assume the satisfaction rate given by the public is from those who survived?)
2. Your report is from 2007, whereas mine is from 2009.
3. I'd like to see the information on Americans traveling to Canada for their health care.
Voltron said...
ReplyDeleteNobody's "scoffing" at caring for the sick or injured Worf.
I whole heartedly agree that our current system has huge gaps and needs to be fixed.
But the pro's and con's need to be rationally weighed. Not emotionally driven.
And they've been weighed, and we see working Universal health care in most major EU countries and Canada.
And the fact that a few right wing morons tell you what to think, doesn't mean that the rest of us aren't able to learn from their success.
Is there system perfect? Of course not.
Is the Post Office perfect?
Of course not.
Some letters don't arrive at their destination.
But the MAJORITY of them do.
Is NASA perfect?
Of course not.
We lost two space shuttles.
But MOST shuttle launches and missions go off brilliantly.
It doesn't have to be perfect to be better.
And what we see in the EU, and Canada, is better.
That's why Americans go there, for health care.
:|
If it didn't work, then they wouldn't go there.
What is the most important health care issue facing Canada today? (open-ended)
ReplyDeletepublic:
Wait times, 2007: 20%
Wait times, 1998: 4%
Physician shortage/going to US, 2007: 19%
Physician shortage/going to US, 1998: 3%
For each of the following, please indicate whether timely access over the past 2 years has
improved, worsened or remained the same: … Family doctors.
who says worsened:
Public: 49%
Doctors: 81%
Pharmacists: 78%
Nurses: 81%
Managers: 71%
From YOUR article...
Strawtron said"Mikey,
ReplyDeleteThe REASON we have a representative republic is to protect the minority from the tyranny of the majority.
So why then would you insist that because (you think) you have the majority on your side that you have the right to dictate what health care plan I personally have?
"
Hey Simple Simon "YOUR" the one that wants to dictate what health care plan people have or dont have.......you just want to say nuh uh and obstruct the will of the people and keep things the way they are where HUNDREDS of MILLIONS are either uninsured or denied coverage by the insurance companies.
Lets be clear here my position is to allow the people to CHOOSE whether they want national healthcare or want to stay in the rigged for profit sham sysyem we currently have.........while its YOU THAT WANT DO DENY PEOPLE THEIR RIGHT TO CHOOSE.
wow, you guys kill me.
ReplyDeleteno one is advocating letting people die wantonly. not on this post, anyway. i am concerned that if we jump into something that the cure will be worse than the disease (pardon the pun). wait times are a problem. a big one. they are commulative. so you wait 6 months to see a doctor. then you wait 6 months to get the tests ordered. then you wait 6 months for the results. then you wait 6 months to get seen again. then you wait 6 months for the treatment. that is not a solution and that is a reality in places like italy and canada. and if you think that is better than backrupcy, as horrible as that may be, i can find people who would disagree. plenty of cancer patients simply do not have the time to wait for that, for an example.
big k
Well Voltron, since they're doing it illegally, and since they don't record that information in the hospitals, just where exactly would I produce such "statistics" from?
ReplyDeleteWatch a 20/20 story on it sometime.
It's common knowledge, but it's not like they're filling out forms saying, "hey, I'm an American illegally pretending to be Canadian to get free health care".
:|
Duh
Kevin said...
ReplyDeletewow, you guys kill me.
And you scumbag insurance reps are killing the rest of us, so I guess that makes us even.
He passed away Thursday Worf!
ReplyDeleteAnd that piece of sludge Voltron mocked me about it like only a piece of garbage would.
volt and worf,
ReplyDeleteaccording to my babysitter, a canadian national, you cant get health care there if you are not canadian.
Your a piece of dirt and if you EVER disrespected me like that to my face Voltron......it wouldnthappen again!
ReplyDeleteAND from what I've read the Americans going to Canada for health care is for ELECTIVE treatments.
ReplyDelete(some of which are cheaper there)
The ones coming here from Canada are for CRITICAL treatments...
(all of which is more expensive here)
oops,
ReplyDeletemissed your post there worf. people doing it illegally would answer that one.
Voltron said...
ReplyDeleteWhat is the most important health care issue facing Canada today? (open-ended)
public:
Wait times, 2007: 20%
Wait times, 1998: 4%
Physician shortage/going to US, 2007: 19%
Physician shortage/going to US, 1998: 3%
For each of the following, please indicate whether timely access over the past 2 years has
improved, worsened or remained the same: … Family doctors.
who says worsened:
Public: 49%
Doctors: 81%
Pharmacists: 78%
Nurses: 81%
Managers: 71%
From YOUR article...
Right. Wait times are an issue. They've increased over the years (probably as more and more Americans start filling up the lists).
But OVERALL satisfaction is still very high.
Besides, how long of a wait time do you think an uninsured single working mother waitress has to wait for surgery?
Or any uninsured person?
And how long do you think the wait is when that surgery is DENIED?
Or when the cocksucker Kevin works for DROPS them?
Huh?
Did you not hear me just say my Mom died due being denied coverage?
Did you not hear Mike say his Dad just died due to similar issues?
Did you not just hear me point out my best friends 4 year old daughter lost her LEG because some cocksucker at an insurance company DROPPED her off his policy after taking his premiums on her for four years?
:|
I'm with Mike.
Lets give coverage to all the smart people, and the rest of you gun toting cocksuckers can fend for yourselves.
Kevin,
ReplyDeleteI know it's illegal, but evidently the checks are pretty loose in Canada.
I read an article where people from Detroit were going up there for cataract surgery and face lifts. Stuff like that.
Kevin said...
ReplyDeletevolt and worf,
according to my babysitter, a canadian national, you cant get health care there if you are not canadian.
Well, when you're done fondling your babysitter go rent the movie "Sicko" and WATCH as Moore follows an American citizen into a hospital for treatment.
Or watch the special 20/20 did on it last summer, where people BUSSED up to Canada to get health care and medicine.
:|
It's not legal dumbass.
That's why I said "IT'S NOT LEGAL".
The bottom line is most people want health care. National health care.
ReplyDeleteBut a handful of right wing throwbacks are busy preaching right wing talking points and holding up the process for the rest of us.
If you don't want it, then OPT OUT.
Worf & Mikey,
ReplyDeleteI AM sorry for your losses.
However, if anything that just puts you too close to the situation to make a rational call.
And Mikey, I'm sorry I doubted you. Kevin said you posted before about it and it got deleted. I didn't see it, and I'll take his word for it.
And considering how you guys have behaved in the past what was I supposed to think? It's not like you haven't used any bit of personal information you garnered against us.
Also, what you're not mentioning is that most Americans who go to Canada for their non life threatening afflictions do not use the Canadian system anyway. It's fee for service. And for trivial services Canada can be cheaper.
ReplyDeleteThis doesn't even take into accout those who go to buy prescriptions only...
EXCUSE ME.........what personal information have I or anyone else used AGAINST YOU?
ReplyDeleteFirst of all I was for national health care long before my personal loss.
ReplyDeleteSecondly, we have all the distanced cold hearted bastards we need making decisions for us now.
What we need is less goosesteppers making decisions for us, and more human beings.
"cocksucker Kevin "
ReplyDeletenice worf. i just sold the stuff and tried to make sure people knew what it was. underwriters make the decisions for who to drop and why, not the agents.
i did read your posts. worf, did you read mine? my friends dad would have died if he waited for the system. he had to go out of the country, because there simply isnt anyone he can get in the country even if he has the money. what do we do in those situations when the person isnt loaded? do you have an answer to that? i am currently watching my wifes grandfather go through this same thing here. and i have a friend, she is only 26, who is looking at not making it to 30. my sister has ms. she was diagnosed with it when she was quite young. she is hoping to see her kids graduate from high school. i am not immune to these things. i just have a different perspective on how to fix it.
"love your enemies," right? "the greatest spiritual growth can be found with those who annoy you." the host of this blog repeats herself on those points daily. have you read them? heard them? lived them, at all!! the first step is to see people you dont agree with as not inherently evil. its hard. it took me a long time. you might want to try it.
big k
""love your enemies," right? "the greatest spiritual growth can be found with those who annoy you." the host of this blog repeats herself on those points daily."
ReplyDeleteKevin,
That only applies to disagreements among liberals about who isn't liberal enough.
The blog hostess has repeatedly shown by her postings that those principles do not apply to conservatives.
Nice how you trot out the be nice be reasonable arguments when its clear your losing a debate............you clearly had a different attitude over the last week Kevin.
ReplyDeleteEvidently anyone who disagrees with the postings here IS inherently evil.
ReplyDeleteWorf would probably say "You may not be the devil, you're just the one who goes into the 7-11 to buy him smokes..."
Hate to interupt your boondoggle Voltron but i'll ask again...............What personal information was ever used "AGAINST" you............you made the claim now back it up or retract it and admit you were lying?
ReplyDeleteKevin said...
ReplyDeletenice worf. i just sold the stuff and tried to make sure people knew what it was
Yea, heroin dealers say the same thing.
:|
So what's your point?
volt,
ReplyDeletei know, and i called her on it years ago. but i think it bears repeating when the time calls for it. lydia isnt here though, at least she isnt posting. so if she is still not heeding her own advice i wouldnt know. but it is really good advice, and i try to live by it as best i can, even if others cant or make it hard to do.
big k
Hey Worf,
ReplyDeleteIf NOBODY sold it, you guys could claim there were 300 million people uninsured.
That'd be a good news story huh?
we need insurance worf. like it or not, the world wasnt even this nice before it. and if you find someone who will sit down and explain what the policy is and does, and you enter into that agreement, isnt that fair as long as everyone is honest?
ReplyDeleteGood lord Mikey,
ReplyDeleteI think just about everyone has had their say about my boy, my hip replacements, etc.
I think if you look back over our postings it's been YOUR side overwhelmingly with personal attacks, smears and vulgarity.
I make it a PERSONAL point to try not to respond in kind just to highlight the difference.
On a constructive note here (I hope), Rahm Emanuel has a brother named Ezekial. He's a doctor and just wrote a book on healthcare. I saw him on C-Span last night and he sounded very impressive. He seems to think that we can achieve universal coverage without going the single-payer route (he evidently has some issues with it). I'm thinking about checking out the book or at least researching it a little. Hey, the more we know, the better, right?
ReplyDeleteBig Puss said...
ReplyDeletevolt,
i know, and i called her on it years ago. but i think it bears repeating when the time calls for it. lydia isnt here though, at least she isnt posting. so if she is still not heeding her own advice i wouldnt know. but it is really good advice, and i try to live by it as best i can, even if others cant or make it hard to do.
Are you kidding?
I mean seriously are you kidding?
You waltzed in the other night after 4 supposed years of absence and started calling people names, insulting everyone and even me, who wasn't even here, lol.
:D
I'll say one thing for you Big man, you sure have got some big brass ones.
mike,
ReplyDeletei said i try. i am not perfect at it. and you were not the nicest guy last week either. since i got here you have not been arguing a point so much as calling me as many names as you can think of. i am not sure how you think that wins and argument. but if it helps mike, let be be the first to apologize, and to pledge anew not to resort to personal attacks with you. is that fair?
i just thought the "cocksucker Kevin" comment warrented a bit of grounding for us.
big k
Kevin said...
ReplyDeletewe need insurance worf.
Like we need a hole in the head.
:|
If it were free, we wouldn't need the insurance.
Kevin,
ReplyDeleteYeah I agree it sounds nice to say, and is nice to aspire to, but it just rarely happens in the real world.
I get roundly pilloried when I say that, but their responses belie the truth.
Man by himself is NOT perfectible, hence the first and main liberal failure.
Good lord Mikey,
ReplyDeleteI think just about everyone has had their say about my boy, my hip replacements, etc."
No........In the 4 years i've known you I dont think i've used ANY of those things to attack you.
"Hey, the more we know, the better, right?"
ReplyDeleteSorry Will, these guys will tell you ALL you NEED to know...
Kevin while it is true I may have called you names over the past week my post contained a valid point other than the name calling unlike people like Crusty that add NOTHING to the discussion but name calling and whining.
ReplyDeletethere you go with your scroll button again worf.
ReplyDeletemy first post had no personal attacks, and no, did not mention you. jr and mike came right out of the box with "illiterate inbred" and "idiot."
it went down hill from there.
Voltron said...
ReplyDeleteMan by himself is NOT perfectible, hence the first and main liberal failure.
Why is that a liberal failure?
Isn't that equally a conservative failure?
Here's where it's at.
You guys think man isn't perfect, so therefore you chose to do nothing.
And in lieu of nothing, you chose to do as little as possible.
We on the other hand likewise acknowledge man isn't perfect.
But liberals still chose to do "something". And they choose to do as much as can be done.
Do they always succeed? Of course not.
But they succeed more than you, because they are willing to try, while you guys choose to roll over and cry.
I'd rather shoot at the moon and miss, than shoot at nothing, and hit it.
ReplyDelete:|
"If it were free, we wouldn't need the insurance."
ReplyDeleteIf it were free, you wouldn't need the taxpayers to foot the bill.
That's the POINT Worf. The government doesn't have any money of it's own. What they have they TAKE from others.
ok worf,
ReplyDeletewe should go ahead and go back to the way things used to be. get sick the doc comes and he holds his hand out. if you cant pay, then he leaves.
if it were free, we would have socialism. and i dont care what the polls say, that is not a good thing.
big k
No health care reform MUST BE SINGLE PAYER........there is no compromise on this issue we NEED National Single Payer healthcare as an option...........not more of the same rigged sham of a system that flat out doesnt work!
ReplyDeleteBig K said..
ReplyDeletethere you go with your scroll button again worf.
my first post had no personal attacks, and no, did not mention you. jr and mike came right out of the box with "illiterate inbred" and "idiot
There you go with your revisionist history again.
Did you or did you not call me ugly names without me saying one word to you?
:|
That's a yes or no question chief.
Kent Conrad has a plan, too. I think it has something to do with nonprofits, businesses pooling together, etc.. I mean, seriously, there has to be something in between single-payer and what we have now, no? Hey, Volt, how you doin'?
ReplyDeleteTalking Point Puppet said...
ReplyDeleteif it were free, we would have socialism
Wrong Herr Unterfuhrer.
We'd have national health care, like England.
:|
Or did that "degree" you earned over the last 4 years teach you that England was a socialist regime?
You think you're smart Big K, but your words say otherwise.
ReplyDeleteYour words say you're just a brainwashed right wing troll, in selling the talking point issue of the day.
ReplyDeletewell mike,
ReplyDeletelike i said, i am willing to try again with a fresh plate if you are. i hope that is fair enough. if we can get everyone else to do that, at least we have achieved that much. and i think that is a big step these days.
big k
No Worf, it's wholly a liberal failure.
ReplyDeleteConservatives realize that man is imperfect and harness that imperfection through capitalism to achieve the best possible outcome for as many as possible.
Do some fall through the cracks? YES. Do some resist participating? YES.
But by and large even our "poor" have a standard of living envied by many in the third world.
Liberals seem to think that with the right people in charge they can legislate man into perfection.
Hence the grandiose ideals of some sort of utopian society where all are good, nice and generous, everyone is taken care of even the least among us.
This has historically failed everywhere it's been tried. What's more it's lead to genocide, mass murder and poverty for those under such a system.
Whether intentional or not your vision of equality leads to everyone being equally miserable.
yes worf, i did.
ReplyDeletelike i said, it went down hill after my first post. i didnt try that hard, but i wanted to be clear to mike and everyone else, that i wasnt trying to get you back here. my master plan backfired.
if you would like an apology and a fresh start, i am willing to go there too. hows that?
If we could get you to honestly respond to a question, instead of dodging the ones you know make you look foolish, that'd be a big step forward these days.
ReplyDelete"But they succeed more than you, because they are willing to try,..."
ReplyDeleteDid they succeed in Russia?, China?, Cuba?, Vietnam? or North Korea?
Please tell me just where they have succeeded...
Kevin said...
ReplyDeleteyes worf, i did.
That's right you did.
So who are you to act pompous and superior about others in here, huh slick?
Voltron said...
ReplyDeleteDid they succeed in Russia?, China?, Cuba?, Vietnam? or North Korea?
Please tell me just where they have succeeded...
Well we did pretty good against Nazi Germany as I recall.
:|
Course some of you still are around.
Kevin said...
ReplyDeleteif you would like an apology and a fresh start, i am willing to go there too. hows that?
Any apology that has to be asked for is no apology at all.
Now, instead of playing Mr Rogers Kevin, why don't you respond to my response to you about your ridiculous right wing talking point claiming if we had national health care, we'd have socialism?
ReplyDeleteInstead of playing dodgeball all the time, why don't you stand up for a little hardball once in a while?
"Well we did pretty good against Nazi Germany as I recall."
ReplyDeleteOh hell. I forgot about Chamberlain's peace treaty.
Or the fact we had national health care back then...
Or maybe you're taking credit for liberals carpet bombing Dresden, the Japanese internment camps, or dropping nukes on Japan?
ReplyDeleteVoltron said...
ReplyDeleteNo Worf, it's wholly a liberal failure.
Conservatives realize that man is imperfect and harness that imperfection through capitalism to achieve the best possible outcome for as many as possible.
Do some fall through the cracks? YES. Do some resist participating? YES.
But by and large even our "poor" have a standard of living envied by many in the third world.
Liberals seem to think that with the right people in charge they can legislate man into perfection.
Sorry, would've answered sooner but I was still laughing.
This nonsense from a guy who is fine with "legislating offensive war", the government spying on Americans and making laws to control what people do with their personal lives and bodies.
:|
Too damned funny.
Honestly, you've never heard the term "European socialism"???
ReplyDeleteVoltron said...
ReplyDeleteOh hell. I forgot about Chamberlain's peace treaty.
Gee, and here I though Franklin Delano Roosevelt was president during the war.
:|
Those home schools you go to sure teach some advanced stuff, huh?
Voltron said...
ReplyDeleteHonestly, you've never heard the term "European socialism"???
So you think England is a socialist regime too, ay?
:|
You and Kevin must have attended the same home school I take it.
The schools I attended taught us England was a Constitutional Monarchy.
ReplyDelete:|
But then again they were public schools, so you know....socialists and all.
"This nonsense from a guy who is fine with "legislating offensive war", the government spying on Americans and making laws to control what people do with their personal lives and bodies."
ReplyDeleteYeah, and I also note that your savior hasn't ended any of those policies. Indeed now that he's president he's embraced many of them.
-Surge in Iraq = bad. Surge in Afghanistan = good.
-Still spying. It's ok now though liberals are in charge.
-Still in against gay marriage.
-Abortion...
(I'll give you that one. Obeyme even thinks it's ok that babies born alive after a botched abortion should be left alone and allowed to die...)
"That's right you did.
ReplyDeleteSo who are you to act pompous and superior about others in here, huh slick?"
like i said, i started clean, but it didnt last long.
to my knowledge, i have not cussed at you or anyone else since i got here last week. i may not have been the nicest guy, but i drew the line there. why? i know lydia does not appreciate it. and i want to respect that. you start crossing that line and more will follow. i think it is disrespectful of her.
no matter. are we going forward in a different tone or what? its on you.
big k
Voltron said "No Worf, it's wholly a liberal failure.
ReplyDeleteConservatives realize that man is imperfect and harness that imperfection through capitalism to achieve the best possible outcome for as many as possible.
Do some fall through the cracks? YES. Do some resist participating? YES.
But by and large even our "poor" have a standard of living envied by many in the third world.
Liberals seem to think that with the right people in charge they can legislate man into perfection."
Gee silly me, and here I thought Karl Rove and you guys permanent repug eutopian majority that you pompous clowns crowed about was going to legislate this country into perfection.............now how did that work out for us?
Oh yeah the wORST terrorist attack EVER in our countrys history and the worst economy in 7 DECADES.........looks like that repug majority evaprated almost as quicl as the surplus handed to GWB and the trillions in wealth that evaporated during his reign of error.
Seems like te American public doesnt trust you clowns to decide much of ANYTHING for them particularly health care.
Voltron said...
ReplyDeleteYeah, and I also note that your savior hasn't ended any of those policies. Indeed now that he's president he's embraced many of them.
Doing what we do best I see Volty.
When the facts work against you, out comes the straw arguments to shift momentum.
:|
You and Kevin are a match made in heaven.
FDR wasn't a liberal Worf. He was a communist.
ReplyDeleteSee my post re: Dresden, Interment camps and nuking Japan.
Kevin said...
ReplyDeletelike i said, i started clean, but it didnt last long.
Not with me you didn't.
Oh and Hi Will...
ReplyDeleteVoltron said...
ReplyDeleteFDR wasn't a liberal Worf. He was a communist.
Wow. Once more we see the superiority of home schooling over what the rest of us are stuck with.
All those dumb colleges, universities, ....even the White House and National Archives tell us he was a Liberal Democrat.
:|
Go figger.
Just pointing out what happens to liberals when they get elected to office Worf.
ReplyDeleteSeems it's only bad when the other guy does it.
"All those dumb colleges, universities, ....even the White House and National Archives tell us he was a Liberal Democrat."
ReplyDeleteOK fine. Have it your way.
So liberals DO support carpet bombing entire cities, putting people into internment camps and dropping nukes...
Who'd a thunk it?
That being the case, why are we even arguing? You guys are just like you claim we are.
ReplyDeleteVoltron said...
ReplyDeleteJust pointing out what happens to liberals when they get elected to office Worf.
Seems it's only bad when the other guy does it.
No, you're just dodging the issues you get bested on to change the subject to Dresden or the Internment camps.
Liberals go to war too.
We just aren't the ones starting them.
:|
We're just the ones finishing them.
"We're just the ones finishing them."
ReplyDeleteWell the next time could you please finish one for good so we don't have to go back again?
worf,
ReplyDeletehardball? i didnt think there needed to be a response to "if it were free." why dont you give me one on a platter? nothing is free. ever. someone somewhere pays for it. if you are not forking over cash, someone is doing it for you. if you think the doctors are just going to go through medical school for years and come out and give it away i think you are quite mistaken. the only way it is "free" is if the government implements a nanny state and now everything is free!! we now have a right to free food!! free housing!! all of us are guaranteed a job!!
where have we heard these things before?
"free" healthcare is a step in that direction, and it will be headed by a huge government beurocracy that bankrupted social security and the school system. we all know how good those well oiled machines are performing these days. i cant remember who said this, but a senator on c-span the other day was saying that if you go to the dmv, and think they are going a great job, you will like the health care you get under the proposed plan.
big k
"Not with me you didn't."
ReplyDeleteneither did you. "who is the father?"
i think that was your first post.
we can point fingers all night. actually, we cant. i have to get up early. but you get the idea. the ball is in your court.
big k
Voltron said...
ReplyDeleteWell the next time could you please finish one for good so we don't have to go back again?
Well ya got me there Mueller.
:|
We thought we stopped those damn Nazi's and Fascists over there but you guys are dug in deeper over here than an Alabama tick on coon dog.
"We just aren't the ones starting them."
ReplyDeleteAren't you? Is diplomacy working in Iran or North Korea?
President Hopenchange stuck out his hand in goodwill and they slapped it.
Of course you won't start that war either. You'll leave it to simmer until a conservative is in power.
Voltron said ""We're just the ones finishing them."
ReplyDeleteWell the next time could you please finish one for good so we don't have to go back again?"
Uhh genius we DID in WW2 with Germany and Japan UNLIKE the unwinnable wars of choice you clowns started with a treasonous pack of lies that
cost trillions and will likely last decades in Iraq and Vietnam
Kevin said...
ReplyDeleteneither did you. "who is the father?"
i think that was your first post
uhh, that was AFTER you'd already drug my name through the mud and back, genius.
:|
So much for your "apology" ay chucklehead?
"Uhh genius we DID in WW2 with Germany and Japan..."
ReplyDeleteYeah Mikey, and I was just pointing out how UN-liberal the policies were that ended them.
Voltron said...
ReplyDelete"We just aren't the ones starting them."
Aren't you? Is diplomacy working in Iran or North Korea?
Wow. You really did learn more than me in those special schools you guys attended.
I really mean it.
I'm impressed.
:|
In my dumb ole school they taught us that a Truman and Eisenhower were the Presidents starting the war and ending it in "diplomacy" with a stalemate.
They also taught us those two guys were republicans.
:|
Darn ole public school system anyway.
Also they're telling us we're not in a war with Iran right now...but you indicate we are, and....you're really smart...
ReplyDelete:\
Voltron said...
ReplyDelete"Uhh genius we DID in WW2 with Germany and Japan..."
Yeah Mikey, and I was just pointing out how UN-liberal the policies were that ended them
No.
What you were doing is creating a straw argument defining what "liberals" must do according to your definitions.
The only way you can argue against a liberal or anyone supporting them is to invent an image of liberals, and define their policies for them, then proceed to argue against your own fabricated straw men.
Liberals kick ass too pal.
:|
We just don't go lookin for it.
hey worf,
ReplyDeletewhile you are on the subject of deflecting,
"and if you find someone who will sit down and explain what the policy is and does, and you enter into that agreement, isnt that fair as long as everyone is honest?"
"what do we do in those situations when the person isnt loaded? do you have an answer to that?"
questions to worf, 2.
answers from worf. 0.
play ball worf.
Never said that Worfy.
ReplyDeleteWe aren't in a war with Iran yet, but your liberal policies are either going to lead to a lot of death and destruction, or a war for the next administration.
mike,
ReplyDeletevietnam was started under a democrat and ended under a republican.
"The only way you can argue against a liberal or anyone supporting them is to invent an image of liberals, and define their policies for them,..."
ReplyDeleteNo Worf, your publications and media portray that image and define your policies for you very well.
Krugman, Dowd, Rich,..etc. The list is endless.
Kevin said...
ReplyDeletehey worf,
while you are on the subject of deflecting,
"and if you find someone who will sit down and explain what the policy is and does, and you enter into that agreement, isnt that fair as long as everyone is honest?"
"what do we do in those situations when the person isnt loaded? do you have an answer to that?"
questions to worf, 2.
answers from worf. 0.
play ball worf.
Oh I'm sorry. Did I give you the impression your demands were of some importance?
:|
My bad.
"Oh I'm sorry. Did I give you the impression your demands were of some importance?"
ReplyDeleteno, but you deflected the arguement. as much as that supposedly means to you, i would think you would refrain from doing it.
big k
Voltron said...
ReplyDelete"The only way you can argue against a liberal or anyone supporting them is to invent an image of liberals, and define their policies for them,..."
No Worf, your publications and media portray that image and define your policies for you very well.
No. That's just more strawmen.
First, you know I'm independent, and not really liberal on everything. You just paint me as one so as to make it easier to argue with me.
Second, I think winning WWII, while you clowns STARTED a war right after, and lost it, pretty much paints a picture of what you guys are about.
Kevin,
ReplyDelete"Oh I'm sorry. Did I give you the impression your demands were of some importance?"
Read that: "Oh I'm sorry. Did I give you the impression I was going to engage in a reasoned debate? -Just accept what I tell you as gods given truth..."
"First, you know I'm independent, and not really liberal on everything. You just paint me as one so as to make it easier to argue with me."
ReplyDeleteYou're liberal on everything we've discussed so far tonight. You call independent just to avoid the argument.
Kevin said...
ReplyDeleteno, but you deflected the arguement. as much as that supposedly means to you, i would think you would refrain from doing it.
Nope.
I didn't even deflect the "argument".
I am answering all "coherent" questions posed to me as rapidly as I can, from both of you.
Those "questions" were not coherent enough to be noticed or demand a response.
If you wish to get out your Speak-N-Spell, and repost them so I know what the hell you're asking me, I'll take another look.
Otherwise don't pester me.
Well you win Worf. Last one to post and all. I'm turning in, running away.
ReplyDeleteGo ahead toast your victory.
Voltron said...
ReplyDeleteYou're liberal on everything we've discussed so far tonight. You call independent just to avoid the argument.
Do me a favor peabrain. Don't tell me what I am and am not.
I'm for national health care because I am a "Human Being".
It has nothing to do with politics.
Voltron said...
ReplyDeleteWell you win Worf. Last one to post and all. I'm turning in, running away.
Go ahead toast your victory.
Well it isn't much of a victory when I waste several hours arguing with a nut who thinks our government should send our kids to school but if they get sick or injured they're on their own.
Victory would be guys like you stepping aside for once and letting civilization advance, so the rest of the world doesn't have to suffer under the tyrants and despots you continue to stand up.
uh,
ReplyDeleteworf, truman was president truman was in office during the beginning of the korean war. and it was the policies of his administration that led to our current war fighting stance. that you have to wage a nice war, bomb half of a bridge, that sort of thing. mcarther hated that policy and thought that it was prolonging the fight and costing more lives. i think history has vindicated him on that one.
big k
Kevin said...
ReplyDeleteuh,
worf, truman was president truman was in office during the beginning of the korean war.
uhh, Kevin, I just said Truman was President at the start of the war.
:|
Scroll button broken again, or is the illiteracy kicking in?
And he started a war that he couldn't finish.
ReplyDeleteIt was republicans who started that one, and left it in a stalemate.
Not democrats.
admit it worf,
ReplyDeleteyou deflected the argument and went a few posts later and accused me of the same.
if you dont want to talk to me, then simply dont. will hasnt engaged me, and i have not said anything to him. but if you are going to call shenanigans and then do them, do not say you are not a hypocrite.
big k
This is how Big K starts strawmen, pretending to "correct me".
ReplyDeleteIt's like the Inquisitions one.
I say "the Inquisitions spanned 700 years" , and he says "nuh uh the Inquisition lasted only 400 years".
And now I say Truman was President at the start of the Korean war and he says "Nuh uh, Truman was President at the start of the Korean War".
:|
It's like arguing with a 4 year old.
Or a retard.
ReplyDelete"Second, I think winning WWII, while you clowns STARTED a war right after, and lost it, pretty much paints a picture of what you guys are about."
ReplyDeletemy scroll button works just fine.
big k
Kevin said...
ReplyDeleteadmit it worf,
you deflected the argument and went a few posts later and accused me of the same.
Uh,, moron, one straw argument at a time.
I'm answering your most recent post.
I told you already I had no idea what you were asking no do I have no idea what you were asking on those two "questions" you posted.
I invited you to repost them in a language resembling English, and explain what you're asking me and I'll be happy to answer them.
But for now, can we stick to your most recent strawman, about Korea and who was President?
Mr ADHD?
Kevin said...
ReplyDelete"Second, I think winning WWII, while you clowns STARTED a war right after, and lost it, pretty much paints a picture of what you guys are about."
my scroll button works just fine.
Well it must be your brain then.
:|
What about that statement is wrong?
We were talking about who beat Nazi Germany moron.
Please identify the part of that statement you think is wrong.