Please read the following letter I received from a soldier who is on his third tour of Iraq. He is scheduled to return back home in August. I'm praying he will make it back safely. This is from a soldier who knows the truth of what is happening in Iraq.I am not including his name for his protection.
Classification: UNCLASSIFIED//FOR OFFICIAL USE ONLY
Lydia,
I read your blog of the ten service members that were killed in country.
The one that stood out was the mention of the one that was on his third
tour. This is my third tour here as well. I came back from a injury that
had me unable to walk for 90 days. I had my tendon repaired and my nerve
dissected and repaired on my left foot. I came back to Iraq after
healing...why?
If I can try to explain why...
1. We don't have to believe our leaders but we have to believe in our
Country. Our love for our Country and our service is something we take
pride in. Whether Foreign Policy is screwed up or not we have to protect
our Country for whatever threat. Now, this comment can raise a few
arguments I know BUT if I believe in my Country then I am willing to
defend my Country. Notice, I believe in my Country even if my leaders
are slightly off center.
Being in the military we are not allowed to discuss our political views
and I will respect that and I don't think it's important on whether I am
a Republican or Democrat (even though I am sure you know which I am). I
am paid to be a medic, to save lives, not to get into a political debate
with my Commander-In-Chief.
2. We continue to come over because we know others wont. This is an
ongoing situation. We have folks that go AWOL and vanish on their units,
we have folks that claim "conscientious objector" status after they
somehow woke up one day and said "hey, I'm not going to war", and then
we have the National Guard men and women who claim the "I only joined
for college". We also have entire Guard units that for some reason are
able to jockey their way out of deployments, but they and their
personnel are able to remain in the Guard.
3. With being here three times you have experience. You want to share
this experience with the younger soldiers or the "virgins to war". At 35
years of age I see it as my part to help those here and to ease their
worries and to help them relax know that at any moment thing can and
will go down hill fast. If you can learn from those who have been here
before and if it helps you to stay alive and to do you mission then that
is a success.
4. For some of us, like myself, being here is being able to support our
families. Thanks to a poor job market or a job that only pays the status
quo, by coming over here with the extra pay and the like we can keep our
heads above water and make sure our families can survive. I am married
with 3 beautiful children and I know that if anything does happen to me
then they will be taken care of. I hate to think of anything happening
but I am not the dictator of my time on earth. In the civilian side I
would not be able to give my wife of 13 years and my children as good a
life as they have now. Once I get back to Alabama after this tour, I
return to the job I have and take a huge cut in salary. And once again I
look forward to the prospect of having to work two or possibly three
jobs just to stay afloat and to continue to provide for my family.
5. Family history. I come from a long line of military blood. I have had
family in every major conflict since the Civil War. And due to my German
heritage, I have had family on two fronts in two World Wars. Our
dedication to Country and service is a way of my family saying "Thank
You" to a Country that allowed us to cross the water and enter and to
allow us the chance to make our lives better, brand new. From
Grandfather to father to brother to sister and uncles and cousins (one
cousin - William Wayne Seay gave the ultimate sacrifice in Vietnam and
was awarded the Medal Of Honor) we have all given our time to our
Country. At one time over here my sister, my cousin and I were all in
theatre together. Some were raised to be actors, doctors and lawyers and
these are noble professions. My family - Deane's and Steiner's - see our
calling differently. Some 44 years ago a great man told us to ask not
our Country could do for us, but what we could do for our Country. I
have never nor will I ever ask of my Country to do for me, I simply give
to her without question.
6. Faith moves mountains. I have Faith in my God. And I know that if
anything should happen I will look forward to being in His arms and
standing with Him. There is a greater place and my Lord has a place for
me in it. My family will miss me, yes, BUT what a glorious day when we
will be reunited in the presence of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.
Faith keeps me going.
7. My family trusts and believes in me and that is all that matters. As
long as I can look at my children and my wife when I get home and know I
did the best that I could do and they love me, then that is all that I
am after. I have nothing to prove to anyone but to my wife and babies.
This is my last tour. I will volunteer for no more. I once told my wife
one day that as long as I believe that we are helping these people and
SPC (name withheld)
(Operation withheld)
ASR/AMR.NCO
"Those who dare to fail miserably can achieve greatly" - John F.
Kennedy
Classification: UNCLASSIFIED//FOR OFFICIAL USE ONLY
If this e-mail is marked FOR OFFICIAL USE ONLY it may be exempt from
mandatory disclosure under FOIA. DoD 5400.7R, "DoD Freedom of
Information Act Program", DoD Directive 5230.9, "Clearance of DoD
Information for Public Release", and DoD Instruction 5230.29, "Security
and Policy Review of DoD Information for Public Release" apply.
LYDIA CORNELL: AFI Best Actress Nominee, People's Choice Award winner; Actor, Writer, Director, Producer; woman and children advocate; teen mentor, comedienne, talk show host, inspirational pubic speaker best known for her starring role on ABC's "Too Close for Comfort" as TV legend Ted Knight's daughter 'Sara'; HBO's Curb Your Enthusiasm, and over 250 shows, episodes and movies worldwide. Turns tragedy into comedy, life-saving issues for women and equal pay for equal work...
Think Dick Cheney is always wrong?
ReplyDeleteListen to this.
Cheney the prophet
The "classic definition of a quagmire".
ReplyDeleteSounds just like what this solider, who has been there 3 years is describing ay?
I think for us to get American military personnel involved in a civil war inside Iraq would literally be a quagmire.
ReplyDeleteOnce we got to Baghdad, what would we do?
Who would we put in power? What kind of government would we have? Would it be a Sunni government, a Shi’a government, a Kurdish government? Would it be secular, along the lines of the Ba’ath Party? Would be fundamentalist Islamic?
I do not think the United States wants to have U.S. military forces accept casualties and accept the responsibility of trying to govern Iraq.
I think it makes no sense at all.
Dick Cheney
April 7, 1991
No sense at all.
ReplyDeleteYup. We're with you on that one "dick".
Bush claims oversight exemption too
ReplyDelete"The White House says the president's own order on classified data does not apply to his office or the vice president's."
By Josh Meyer, Times Staff Writer
June 23, 2007
Overseeing the overseers?
WASHINGTON — The White House said Friday that, like Vice President Dick Cheney's office, President Bush's office is not allowing an independent federal watchdog to oversee its handling of classified national security information.
An executive order that Bush issued in March 2003 — amending an existing order — requires all government agencies that are part of the executive branch to submit to oversight. Although it doesn't specifically say so, Bush's order was not meant to apply to the vice president's office
I hope this soldier comes home safely. I've learned, since Viet Nam, that it isn't the soldiers who I hate.
ReplyDeleteLoving one's country means that we must hold our leaders accountable for what they do in our names.
ReplyDeleteI hope this soldier knows that while we do not approve of this war or the people who lead it, we do support the troops fully and want them home, safe, and most of all alive.
ReplyDeleteI've never understood how the redumblicans say that wanting troops to come home alive is the same thing as hating them and not supporting them.
Oh, and as for the bogus argument of Iraq falling into chaos if we were to leave ... it's there now. All we're succeeding in doing is adding to the body count.
I commend that mans service. I have a family military history that mirrors his too. As I was telling Larry this morning I have 2 sons in this right now.
ReplyDeleteOne feels the same way this soldier does. Despite many lifers opting to get out because of Bush's abuse and misuse, though his wife is due any day and despite just returning from a tour in Afghanistan as a Explosive ordinance disposal team leader where he lost a buddy, he is volunteering to return to Iraq where he lost 3 buddies to one IED.
It is those increasingly deadly IED's I worry about but not him. He wants to lead his troops and thinks he is the best to do it. He also has the monetary lure. Despite our talks Bush has him brainwashed into thinking Dems. are his enemy.
Another son is flying air support in Iraq and is due home 9/5. He shares the same sense of duty but he knows Bush is the problem. They both tell me not to mention their names because they do not want to get in trouble.
They, like this troop are good dedicated soldiers. It is not the current wars that concern me so much as the future wars soon to come. I have some very heated discussions with the Lifer but they both just laugh at me.
I warn them do not get tired because this is just starting and they will be in Iran or elsewhere soon. Bush did not divert from the so called war on terror to unseat Saddam. That was merely his excuse to put American boots on the ground in the middle east.
He will not leave until he has a chance to further what he thinks will be his new middle east order. That is why he keeps our troops in the middle of the Iraqi civil war. It will soon spread throughout the entire middlle east then it will really get going.
He will find his excuse to attack Iran and he will beat Congress to the punch. Bush is being forced to fight and imp-lement his new order. He is a happy camper. Everything is going as planned.
Patriot:
ReplyDeleteYou are so right about this whole issue, and about Bush's plans for further involvement.
I have known soldiers who had the whole military principle drilled into them like brainwashing.
It wasn't until years after their service was over, that they realized what had happened.
Thank you for your input.
Divajood:
ReplyDeleteGlad you returned and you are right, we don't hate the soldiers, we hate the war they are forced to fight in.
Lynn:
ReplyDeleteI agree, we must hold those in power accountable for what they have done to the soldiers, and to our country.
Hey Guys, this letter that Lydia has shared is so tragic of what the troops must face I was struck by his taking 3 tours
ReplyDeleteInteresting the reichwinger idiots like Dolty Boy always want to bring up Vietnam as the example of what could happen if we leave Iraq, BUT they never tell the whole story of why Vietnam was so bad.
ReplyDeleteThe WARS in Vietnam started with the invasion of French Indochina by the Japanese early in WW2, before most of the soldiers from the US whop were doomed to die there were born.
After the defeat of the Japanese lead by Ho Chi Mihn, the French tried to reassert their former colonial control over Vietnam, but were fought tooth and nail by the very same fighters who survived the fight with Japanese colonial control.
The French were defeated at Dien Ben Phu in 1954 even though they had US logistical support and some air support in the end. (which should have told the id-jets in the White House under Richard Nixon a proxie army supported by the US was doomed to fail against the 90% of the people who supported Ho and his government.)
Well instead of accepting the Paris Peace accords of 1954, the Dulles brothers tried to set up a separate state in the south, refused to hold the elections of 1956 because they were doomed to lose them and with the 90% of the support Ho had with the people he fought with and beside since the late 1930's the Republicans in charge of the US government directed by the Dulles brothers couldn't pull any voting games to steal that election like they did in 2000, 2002, 2004......
Sp we have the US government VIOLATING a peace accord to try to steal half of the country from it's people something the Japanese and french were unable to do, so we ended up with a FRAUD called SEATO a treaty with a government lead by a supposed president of south Vietnam who HID in New Jersey during WW2 unlike the person the Vietnamese wanted to lead them like he did during WW2....
The rest is history, Nixon who thought he was destined to continue the policy laid down by the Dulles brothers(remember they were the same genius who fostered the coup in Iran in 1953) which gave the Iranians the SHAH and SAVAK, and resulted in the 1979 revolt, Khomeini and the hostages for 444 days.
Well Nixon LOST and he handed Kennedy a coup in Cuba which became the "bay of pigs", and a failed and flawed foreign policy based on the SEATO Treaty which Kennedy had to honor.
Dolty Boy fails to admit the truth of what happened before 1975, because just like most every other civil war fostered by out side imperialist powers when it fails, and it always fails, see India 1949, Algeria 1959, Vietnam 1975, Afghanistan 1988, Apartheid in South Africa 1986, the people who have committed treason against their fellow citizens in favor of the foreign occupation forces they have a debt to pay to their society, which is very violent if the struggle to force the occupation forces out. Since Vietnam was very violent and bloody as long as the war went on, the resulting backlash was also doomed to be, just like what the reichwing and id-jets like dolty boy have fomented and advocated had been extremely violent, I would not expect the aftermath to be much less violent as old scores are settled and the power vacuum is worked out, but asking for the US forces to remain to prevent this is to ignore the reality that we are fostering just as much violence in the time we remain, however we are one of the main actors in creating that violence, namely with our presence and weapons we use to try to force OUR will on them.
As long as we remain the costs to us rise, and the violence we do escalates, but in the end we will be forced to re-deploy our forces out of Iraq just like the Russians had to retreat from Afghanistan in 1988, the French from Vietnam in 1954, Algeria 1959, the British from India and Pakistan 1949, The Palestinian mess in 1948, Iraq, 1921, Afghanistan 1845, (yes 1845), The United States 1783, The Spaniards lost their empire, The French lost their empire, The British lost their empire, and the soviets lost their empire, which was the Warsaw Pact + the former territories of the soviet Union which refused to stray in Russia post 1992.
The US had to leave the Philippines in 1945 and allow them some semblance of freedom, Cuba 1959, Vietnam 1975, we will be forced to leave Iraq in the near future, maybe not this year nor next year, but we do not have the decade Gen Petraeus wants to remain there.
Time for the US occupation is running out, and the violence needed for the US to remain is going to continue to escalate for both our forces and the Iraqi people.
Sorry dolty boy but if you do not want a violent backlash to a war,
DON"T START ONE SON.........
Cause if you do the rest is almost destine to follow.
ONLY in GOPerville could this happen;
ReplyDeleteI knew the GOP was hard up. But I had no idea it was this bad.
According to this quite hilarious article in the San Francisco Chronicle, the California GOP has hired as its chief operating officer, an Australian national who the Department of Homeland Security has been trying to deport for repeated immigration violations. As recently as Februrary, Michael Kamburowski, was working, rather haplessly, as a real estate agent in the Domincan Republic until he "ran away without mentioning anything to us," according to his one-time boss, Rico Pester, the owner of Re/Max Island Realty, in the resort town of Punta Cana. (Said his Re/Max bio: "With his attention to detail, laid-back yet professional approach, and sense of humor, Michael will smoothen the road to your dream property in Punta Cana.")
Perhaps it is somehow implicitly redundant to note that in the second half of the 1990s Kamburowski was working for Grover Norquist on immigration policy, tort reform and 'paycheck protection' before becoming the executive director of Norquist's Reagan Legacy Project.
Along the way there were a couple of hasty marriages leading shortly to his new brides submitting "Petition for Alien Relative" forms to get him citizenship, various stints as an "aspiring actor" and even a stay at the Wackenhut Correctional Facility in Jamaica, New York courtesy of the Department of Homeland Security.
In addition to his work running the California Republican party he is also suing the Immigration and Customs Enforcement agency for "significant financial hardship" and "severe emotional stress and embarrassment" for trying to have him deported.
Apparently, this wasn't the last of the CA GOP's overseas outreach.
Republican Party Chairman Ron Nehring, who hired the afore-mocked Kamburowski, claimed he was not able to find a qualified political director for the California party among the three-hundred-odd million citizens of the United States. Nehring used a H1B visa (the type commonly used by high-tech companies when say they need to hire a foreigner with a skill not possessed by any American) to Christopher Matthews, a Canadian citizen, with no experience in California politics.
-- Josh Marshall
The party who is screeching about illegal immigration is hiring them to run itself?
Well since the GOPers who run the sweat shops and minimum wage jobs of this country have done this for years, why not running their party also?
Cliffy,
ReplyDeleteThat may well all be true, yet there were certain realities and global contexts present which made some of those actions seem like wise choices at the time. (which you like to ignore)
And what do you think the world would look like now if those things were not at least attempted?
Also, the rest of the world looks to America to do a lot of their dirty work and heavy lifting, yet think nothing of hurling their slings and arrows at us.
As an American I see nothing wrong with trying to stack the deck in our favor considering what's expected of us and the thanks we get.
You know your losing your base when things like this appear.
ReplyDeleteh/t no quarter
Simpleton, they IGNORED a hell of a lot of reality, like the French trying to warn the Dulles Brothers and Lyndon Johnson, Kennedy listened some to the french and was considering a partial withdrawal of some troops when he was killed.
ReplyDeleteThey ignored the history of the empires and the treaties they signed when they created the UN, itself which supported indigenous peoples OVER the corporate state and empires whether enforced by military might or economic imperialism.
Now gutless about that age waiver I know you asked for son,
Have they gotten back to you yet?
what would the world look like if we hadn't violated both US law and UN rules and fomented a coup in Iran circa 1054 at the behest of the British who couldn't pull it off, so turned to the Dulles brothers, we wouldn't have been hated there for decades, fostered one of the worst dictators in the region, and had suffered the blowback of 1979, which means we would have still had good relations with Iran, the Islamist hardliners would have never come to power, thus NO Hamas no Hezbollah underwritten by Iranian hardliners,
ReplyDeletewe wouldn't have turned the Saddam, thus no Iran-Iraq war, no first gulf war, and no invasion of Iraq circa 203, and the country wouldn't be caught in the current fiasco which is getting worse son.
Looks like the world would have turned out a whole lot better.......
as for Vietnam the country over there would have turned out some what similar politically and economically with out over 56,000 needless US troop deaths and up to 2 million Vietnamese deaths, and the US wouldn't have suffered from the economic impact from that war and the blowback on the world stage because of it.
Also no counter culture and peace movement so there goes your dope smoking days widdle boy.........
I'm impressed Clif.
ReplyDeleteYou should be, how's that age waiver going son?
ReplyDeleteBTW widdle boy that is my cousin their talking about, he is the family know-it-all son.
DivaJood said...
ReplyDeleteI hope this soldier comes home safely. I've learned, since Viet Nam, that it isn't the soldiers who I hate."
I made that very comment on the last thread Divajood, the repugs are a bunch of Cold War chicken Hawk dinosaurs stuck in the past and unable to adapt.
During Vietnam some of those against the war did blame the troops, spit on them etc.........I havent seen ONE single person do or say anything of the sort that would not be supportive of the troops yet lying pieces of crap like Rove and bush, and lying pathetic blog trolls using multiple sock puppets like Moo Moo and Volt use that very tactic because they have nothingh else to use........they cant debate facts because theirs are based on lies.......they cant tout their competence or past accompishments because they are incompetent failures that have been dead wrong on everything that comes out of their mouth so they resort to lying and smearing their opponents.
with the Army falling short of it's enlistment goals this month, they certainly would want the dolty boy of the pink pajama circle jerk romper room fame with his ability to force people to take three showers a day, hell son, the insurgents will up and surrender when they hear YOUR comin' boy.
ReplyDeleteGet the age waiver yet son?
Thats all he does is ignore reality Clif..........the delusional little goosestepper is fond of spending the whole day defending Bush, while claiming he doesnt defend or agre with him.......either he's REALLY stupid or he thinks we are REALLY stupid!
ReplyDeleteDolty boy, KNOWING military history means you might not repeat it;
ReplyDeleteSwamp Fox Goes to Iraq
by
Larry C Johnson
General Odierno, our number two guy in Iraq, needs a sit down with Benjamin Franklin. He has the symptoms of insanity. Franklin apparently was the first to note that "insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results" (others credit Albert Einstein with this insight; I don't know, let's thank both of them). Having learned nothing from the battles of Fallujah, Ramadi, and Tall Afar, U.S. Generals launched another feckless attack on alleged Al Qaeda insurgents in Baquba this week. The New York Times Michael Gordon reports:
In an otherwise upbeat assessment, Lt. Gen. Raymond T. Odierno, the second-ranking American commander in Iraq, told reporters that leaders of Al Qaeda in Mesopotamia had been alerted to the Baquba offensive by widespread public discussion of the American plan to clear the city before the attack began. He portrayed the Qaeda leaders’ escape as cowardice, saying that “when the fight comes, they leave,” abandoning “midlevel” Qaeda leaders and fighters to face the might of American troops — just, he said, as they did in Falluja.
Let me see if I have this straight? We go after a supposed concentration of Al Qaeda. We encircle a city filled with civilians. We blow the living shit out of the place. And guess what? The terrorists aka insurgents beat feet and melt away. The so-called cowards won't "stand and fight". Well, looks to me like those cowards are much faster learners then we are.
General Odierno ought to go back and read some good old fashioned American History. There was this guy, General Francis Marion, who got the nickname "Swamp Fox" from a fussy British Colonel (Tarleton) who complained that Marion did not fight fair:
When British forces captured Charleston in 1780, American troops pulled out of South Carolina. Marion, however, stayed and organized a small force of poorly equipped men, training them in guerrilla tactics. Living off the land, Marion and his men harassed British troops by staging small surprise attacks in which they captured small groups of British soldiers, sabotaged communication and supply lines, and rescued American prisoners. After these attacks Marion withdrew his men to swamp country unfamiliar to the British. Colonel Banastre Tarleton, a British commander, gave Marion his nickname when he complained that it was impossible to catch the "swamp fox." Near the end of the war, Marion and American General Nathanael Greene joined forces. In 1781 they successfully fought at the Battle of Eutaw Springs and forced the British retreat to North Carolina.
Sound familiar? Despite our decided technological advantage we are fighting insurgents on their home turf. There is a home advantage in more than football.
The current U.S. offensive will fail. We will punch ourselves out on an enemy that is smart enough to retreat in the face of overwhelming force. We will go house to house rousting able bodied men from their sleep and humiliating them in front of their wives. We will detain some of these folks but eventually let them return home. When they return home they will be fully prepared to support whatever insurgent group will help them reclaim the honor we took from them.
We have employed these insane tactics for four plus years. And what have we achieved? A steady increase in terrorist violence and insurgent attacks. More U.S. soldiers have died in the last six months then in any six month period since the war began. And what do we have? A modern version of Colonel Banastre Tarleton whining about the insurgents who run away. Well General Odierno, those run away cowards are kicking our ass. I suggest you pull your head out of yours and come up with an effective strategy that does not play into the hands of the "terrorists".
What should we do? It is very simple.
1. Recognize that we are fighting a hydra-headed insurgency.
There are at least 20 different insurgent groups. There is no single enemy. Ironically, we spend an inordinate amount of time talking about "Al Qaeda". We deceive ourselves that Al Qaeda is the main enemy in Iraq. It is not.
2. Disengage from attacking the Iraqi people.
Immediately institute a moratorium on kicking in the doors of suspected weapons sites, etc. Whatever value has been achieved by capturing small caches of weapons has been grossly overshadowed by the ill-will we have spawned among the various factions in Iraq. If a house has to be invaded let the Iraqi police or soldiers do it. Our boys and girls need to sit this one out.
3. Empower local sheiks and tribal chiefs to secure the roads and infrastructure in their area.
Pay them to keep the roads open and free of explosives. Provide training and support to those tribes. We do not have enough troops to secure the roads and infrastructure. We would need at least 500,000 troops to accomplish that objective. We do not have them and we do not have a plan (e.g., draft) in place to produce such numbers in the foreseeable future. We need to stop bullshitting ourselves and work with the tools we have, not the tools we would like to have.
4. Convene a regional peace conference.
We need Iran, Turkey, Saudi Arabia, Jordan, and Syria at the table. We must negotiate our way out of Iraq while preserving our own interests in the region. Like it or not we have created a majority Shia state in Iraq that will not willingly relinquish power. Yes they will be favorably disposed to Iran, at least for the near term. But we can accomplish more through diplomacy in the region then thru military action. Our current approach is tarnishing our reputation with each new report of an offensive to "root out" Al Qaeda.
5. Deploy an international peace keeping force to Baghdad.
As long as U.S. troops are the face of the military action in Iraq, we foster the impression that we want the chaos. Most folks in the Middle East still believe we are a superpower. By definition nothing happens unless we want it to. Therefore, the violence in Iraq is a deliberate choice of the U.S. superpower. Otherwise, because we are a superpower, we would exert control over the insurgents and stop the violence. For some strange reason the the Arabs and Persians don't comprehend, we are allowing Iraq to fall into chaos and disorder. If we did not want that outcome then we would do something different because we are a SUPERPOWER.
I know one thing for certain. The approach I have outlined above will work far more effectively in helping the United States achieve tangible, positive results in Iraq then the madness and insanity of General Odierno and his strategy of punching the bag of jello known as the Iraqi insurgency.
**********************************
Wanna bet something along these ideas happens LONG before dolty boy asks for his age waiver let alone gets one?
Good going Bartlebee, we need to attack their competence and credibility..........these authoritarians keep pretending THEY are the only ones to protect us from terrorist we need to show how utterly incompetent and dishonest they are and how they are dead wrong about everything they say.
ReplyDeleteLynn@ZelleBlog said...
ReplyDeleteLoving one's country means that we must hold our leaders accountable for what they do in our names.
An EXCELLENT point Lynn, thats exactly what we need to do..........the goosesteppers try to silence people by delusionaly equating criticizing the President or his bungling corrupt administration and illegal war with not supporting the troops and that is pathetically riddiculous.
Hmm my comment dissappeared, about the actions of mercenaries.
ReplyDeleteMan I hate blogger. It said 'error"
Don't worry Lynn,
ReplyDeleteBlogger will be a thing of the past here soon, and you won't lose your comments.
Interesting Clif, I was reading something along those lines earlier today.
ReplyDeleteAlthough what I was reading was by actual former military guys...
Just so the id-jet dolty boy might get the comparison;
ReplyDeleteWhen British forces captured Charleston in 1780,
Just like The US "captured Iraq and some stupid foole claimed mission accomplished
American troops pulled out of South Carolina.
The Iraqi army melted away
Marion, however, stayed and organized a small force of poorly equipped men, training them in guerrilla tactics.
Folks there is how you organize any insurgency, the Iraqi's are following a time tested OLD tradition of the indigenous population using their familiarity of the land and it's people to foster their ability to harras the occupation forces and when the occupation forces respond blindly, the locals give tactic support to the insurgents as the resentment of the occupation GROWS
Living off the land, Marion and his men harassed British troops by staging small surprise attacks in which they captured small groups of British soldiers,
like the insurgents in Iraq also do
sabotaged communication and supply lines,
like the insurgents in Iraq also do
and rescued American prisoners.
like the insurgents in Iraq also do for Iraqi prisoners, However the Iraqi Insurgency also use the American built prisons in Iraq to recruit from the local population caught up in the massive sweeps of every male 16-50 who happen to end up in places like Abu Ghraib
After these attacks Marion withdrew his men to swamp country unfamiliar to the British.
like the insurgents in Iraq also do, only they melt back into the desert and Baghdad neighborhoods and for some reason look just like the rest of the people living there
Colonel Banastre Tarleton, a British commander, gave Marion his nickname when he complained that it was impossible to catch the "swamp fox."
wanna bet they cries the Iraqis don't fight fair ring as hollow in Fallughs, Ramadi and Tikrit, as they did in Charleston, Valley Forge, Bunker hill etc.
Near the end of the war, Marion and American General Nathanael Greene joined forces.
Like the Iranians who understand the end is coming so they have decided to aid the Shiite insurgents but NOT al qaeda
In 1781 they successfully fought at the Battle of Eutaw Springs and forced the British retreat to North Carolina.
stay tuned, it's a coming, the French had their Dien Bein Phu, the US had their TET, Hitler had his Stalingrad, and the Iraqi insurgents will also decide when the time is right to strike the blow which undercuts the ability of neo-cons to lie and get away with it any more.
See dolty boy everything which is happening in Iraq has a historical perspective so if you know WHERE to look the ability to for see what is a comin' ain't being a know it all just a good student of military history son.
Too bad your a gutless chicken hawk punk and NOTHING more........(like those you still support)
Hey Clif,
ReplyDeleteWhat do you think would've happened if Marion had started to attack and kill groups of American citizens to incite them?
Think he'd still have won?
Because that's what the "insurgents" in Iraq are doing...
ReplyDeleteDamn your an IDIOT, the american revolution also did not include a fight between catholics and protestants like the Iraqi insurgency does FOOLE
ReplyDeleteBTW hows that age waiver request a comin' son?
ReplyDeleteSince both the British forces and American revolutionary forces spoke the SAME language, and had mostly similar customs including religion son, the differences do create some subtle changes in adapting the insurgent fourth generation warfare tactics than a society like Iraq does with the fact their language and customs are totally foreign to the US forces which results in many unintended consequences which the insurgents take advantage of.
ReplyDeleteNow son when are YOU going to sign up and serve?
Get that request for that age waiver off yet?
"...the american revolution also did not include a fight between catholics and protestants like the Iraqi insurgency does..."
ReplyDeleteEXACTLY Clif.
And that's why the comparison doesn't work. The insurgents are pissing off the average citizens who are now starting to rat them out to US.
Thanks for sharing Lydia, I guess if enough of these type letters were posted and put on the news maybe this man we call President would listen.
ReplyDeleteFrom what I'm getting right now he's already extended or added on time for troops to be in Iraq, so I don't know if this letter writer will be home in August or not.
The sunni's are increasingly turning to our side because they KNOW what's in store for them if we just up and pull out.
ReplyDeleteSince both the British forces and American revolutionary forces spoke the SAME language, and had mostly similar customs including religion son, the differences do create some subtle changes in adapting the insurgent fourth generation warfare tactics than a society like Iraq does with the fact their language and customs are totally foreign to the US forces which results in many unintended consequences which the insurgents take advantage of.
ReplyDeleteNow son when are YOU going to sign up and serve?
Get that request for that age waiver off yet?
Volties just upset thab Dick the Dunce Cheney put his foot in his mouth again and is going to get slapped down...................Still defending the indefensible Dolty!
ReplyDeleteMike, I don't give a rats fat arse what they do. The immigration bill is the final straw for me.
ReplyDeleteBull dolt, your STILL defending the morons and mooks at this late date.
ReplyDeleteI'm defending what I believe is right in Iraq.
ReplyDeletewhy dont you suit up and go to Iraq yourself instead of cheering on the war from the sidelines.
ReplyDeleteWell widdle boy since the invasion was based on lies, they lied about the occupation, make false claims that all insurgents are al qaeda linked which is another LIE, NO Shiites could be part of al qaeda (since it is an exclusively Sunni organisation) they lie about how many Iraqi are killed, lie about what generals said attack and dismiss generals when they tell the truth, just what in hell are you trying to defend foole you favorite set of lies?
ReplyDeleteand speaking of defending son, hows that age waiver so's you can do your defending up close and personal?
It doesn't matter anymore why we're there or who is responsible. We ARE there. There are only TWO options, we can win it, or we can lose it.
ReplyDeleteRegardless of what you believe will happen, what do you HOPE happens?
See, that's the problem you guys have. You've been calling this a "loss" even before it began. Reid and Pelosi have called the surge a failure before it was even fully in place.
You're heavily invested in failure.
If by some wild stretch of the imagination or luck we win this, you and your affiliated groups lose all credibility and influence. And you can't stand that.
You HAVE to root against your country. And that's why we say it.
And Clif, if it WAS based on lies those lies began well before Bush was president.
ReplyDeleteWas Bush providing the intel for the Clinton administration too?
And on that note, do have a good evening.
ReplyDeleteyeah run away little troll........See Clinton didnt invade the country based on lies he didnt try to tie the invasion to an act of terrorism like bush did..........Clinton didnt PURPOSELY cherrypick and twist the intelligence did he you Dunce?
ReplyDeleteDamn son, your still, an idiot, there is NO historical military president for an occupation force THIS small winning in a country which has 90% of the population against the aims of the occupation forces.
ReplyDeleteThere is NO win there son, just either more and larger episodes of violence, and more and more money thrown away on a cause which was unwinnable given the way they structured and staffed it and the goals they set out to achieve.
No we can leave this year, next year or in half a decade, but the Shiites and Sunnis are going to do the same thing no matter how long we stay because THEIR aims are not our aims, the only people who desperately need the US there is the Kurds, but because of their home grown insurgents against both Iran and Turkey who both control sizable sections of territory which they want for a Kurdish homeland.
Foole we can not win Iraq any more than we could ever win Vietnam the french could win Vietnam or Algeria, the British could win our revolution, Afghanistan 1840's, India 1949, Palestine 1948, The Soviets Afghanistan 1988, or maintain control over the Warsaw Pact post 1990. Every one of those were fights of diminishing returns especially once the insurgents had gained the upper hand which the insurgents gained last year.
The surge is just an attempt to regain the control we never really had, and it is FAILING on it's face especially with the latest attacks on Baquaba..........
And describe winning you dunce of a troll......all you do is spout of talking points for the simpleminded.
ReplyDeleteYOU and your masters make it like its Us over there challenging the evil Al qaeda terrorists for the fate of the world when the truth is its our soldiers over there occupying a sovreign country that We destabilized against their will serving as siting ducks in the middle of a civil war hated by all.
Did YOU ever think our presencve over there is fueling the violence and resentmnt rather than helping.
BTW Duncetron please explain to us what a win is..........is it getting the oil contracts we want for Exxon et al?
Oh look some facts and real questions and the little troll has to run away.
ReplyDeleteBill Clinton DIDN'T have his secretary of defense create a separate intell agency in the defense department because what the CIA was getting and proving didn't meet up with the LIES the white house especially Cheney was trying to sell.
ReplyDeleteSo as usual dolt your WRONG id-get, Bill Clinton never tried to lie about aluminum tubes, nor did he claim Saddam was getting yellow cake from Niger so he NEEDED to attack Iraq, did he dolty boy?
I thought not so you LIED as usual.
BTW Al Gore never LIED about the 1993 attack on the world trade center to attack Iraq either like Dick Cheney STILL does.
ReplyDeleteAnd of course neither lied so much that 41% of the American sheeple believe their lies over reality, which is 15 of the 19 hijackers were from Saudi Arabia and ZERO were from Iraq, and the leadership of al qaeda was from from either Saudi Arabia, Egypt or Pakistan, NONE from Iraq.
ReplyDeleteA very simple question dolty;
Given your assertion about no matter how we got into Iraq we need to stay there and win as you put it, does the same advise apply to Hitler circa 1942 and Stalingrad,the rest of Europe and North Africa and Tojo concerning the Philippines, Burma, China and French Indochina?
Does the same hold true for the Soviets in Afghanistan?
Should Saddam have stayed in Kuwait?
Because that is YOUR position about Iraq.
Associated Press:
ReplyDeleteThe number of blacks joining the military has plunged by more than one-third since the Afghanistan and Iraq wars began, as other job prospects soar and relatives of potential recruits increasingly discourage them from signing up.
According to data obtained by The Associated Press, the decline covers all four military services for active duty recruits, and the drop is even more dramatic when National Guard and Reserve recruiting is included.
Los Angeles Times:
ReplyDeleteThe deaths of 10 U.S. troops Saturday in Iraq, seven in roadside bomb attacks, brought to 30 the week's toll for American military personnel.
Hi Lydia:
ReplyDeleteThank you for sharing the letter.
Suzie:
ReplyDeleteThe letter says a lot about what is going on there.
Voltron said...
ReplyDeleteI'm defending what I believe is right in Iraq.
--
Yea? When do you ship out? What is your deployment date. We will have to send you some cookies or something.
Bartlebee, your talking to a gutless goosestepping Chicken Hawk who supports the war from his keyboard and while saying he ISNT defending Bush spends the entire day defending him and blaming Clinton.
ReplyDeleteEven though Clinton NEVER invaded a sovreign Country based on lies and chery picked intelligence.
Oh is that right troll?
ReplyDeleteYou mean you're just another neocon supporting the war with his mouth? Oh I see.
Looks like they've got your number down pat, ay troll?
ReplyDeleteAnd here I was, already to get out the toll house dough.
ReplyDeleteHey Mike, you ever watch this show called lil Bush? I'm watching it now and its hilarious.
ReplyDeleteThey show Jeb Bush as an idiot. A rock fell on him, pinning his arm, so he chewed his own arm off. But he chews the wrong arm off! LOL
ReplyDeleteis it on comedy channel?
ReplyDeleteI just caught the last minute or so of it, thats priceless...........I wonder how that pompous megalomaniac likes being mocked.
ReplyDeleteHe better get used to it after he's done with the president gig NO ONE will respect him or care what he has to say unless they are ripping or mocking him.
It cracks me up. I can't beleive they have the balls to do it but it says a lot for the lack of respect people have for this so called president. The whole country is against him.
ReplyDeleteI mean Jon Stewart and Bill Maher are one thing but a cartoon dedicated to insulting the prez is pretty ballsy. I can't imagine it has ever happened before which shows how much people hate Bush.
ReplyDeleteThank you for sharing that letter, Lydia. It's important to get the perspective of the soldiers as well as everyone else's.
ReplyDeleteBush knows nothing of valor, nor does he know how to be president of a country. He's made the U.S. the laughing stock of the world. I'm ashamed of him and Cheney, who are putting the almighty dollar ahead of human lives.
A very interesting read;
ReplyDelete'A Different Understanding With the President'
Cheney's role is being exposed and how he uses his staff to circumvent the process and other players in the administration.
Cheney is getting some press he might not want right now.
ReplyDeleteThat article is the first in a four part series about how Cheney has created his own special place in the Federal Government outside the constitution and the checks and balances
ReplyDeleteHas anyone ever noticed the striking physical resemblence between Bill Oreilly and Joseph McCarthy?
ReplyDeleteNew York Times:
ReplyDeleteOn June 8, 2004, national security adviser Condoleezza Rice and Secretary of State Colin L. Powell learned of the two-year-old torture memo for the first time from an article in The Washington Post. According to a former White House official with firsthand knowledge, they confronted Gonzales together in his office.
Rice "very angrily said there would be no more secret opinions on international and national security law."
Poor Condi wanted to be in on the torture and was excluded.
New York Times:
ReplyDeleteOn Nov. 14, 2001, the day after Bush signed the commissions order, Cheney took the next big step. He told the U.S. Chamber of Commerce that terrorists do not "deserve to be treated as prisoners of war."
The president had not yet made that decision. Ten weeks passed, and the Bush administration fought one of its fiercest internal brawls, before Bush ratified the policy.
What a surprise Cheney wants torture.
Baghdad:
ReplyDeleteTwelve more U.S soldiers wree killed in Iraq.
"Surge" on Bush.
Larry read the entire WAPO articles about dead eye's change in the constitution to create his special place in the government, it is very interesting to see just how much he has a disdain for the checks and balances which the founding fathers fought to make a central core to our system of governemnt
ReplyDeleteparts one and two can be accessed here
A new reason to stop the stupid ethanol taxpayer financed program, and this time maybe even the id-jet reichwingers will get it...
ReplyDeleteBiofuels to blame as beer prices soar 40 per cent in Germany
If that starts to happen here the rednecks would storm congress and attack all ethanol plants.
Clif:
ReplyDeleteThose two parts were telling of how Cheney is really the President and his stoic reaction during 9/11, when everyone in the room let out loud moans at the falling of the towers, and Cheney sat there stone faced.
Cheney ignores every law and rule that has ever been used.
The next two parts will be real telling.
Cheney didn't rule out cruelty to prisoners. Cold person.
BAGHDAD:
ReplyDeleteA suicide bomber who penetrated layers of security blew himself up in the busy lobby of a leading Baghdad hotel on Monday, killing at least nine people, including a U.S.-allied tribal sheik, police reported.
The attack, in which 16 others were wounded, was just one in a surge of five suicide and other bombings Monday that killed at least 29 people across Iraq.
In an equally deadly attack, a suicide truck bomber targeted an Iraqi police station shared with U.S. troops in Beiji, 155 miles north of Baghdad, killing nine people. There were no American casualties in that blast, the U.S. command said.
Just another normal day in Bush's war.
Reuters:
ReplyDeleteBankrupt auto parts maker Delphi Corp. (DPHIQ.PK: Quote, Profile, Research) will retain and operate four plants under a tentative agreement with the United Auto Workers, according to a document posted on a Web site run by union members.
Delphi would hold another four sites for divestiture as ongoing businesses and would wind down or consolidate 10 plants, according to the memorandum of understanding posted on www.SoldiersofSolidarity.com.
Delphi's agreement with the UAW and former parent General Motors Corp. (GM.N: Quote, Profile, Research) also calls for cutting starting wages for new workers to $14 per hour, as well as one-time "buy-down" payments to existing workers of up to $105,000 in exchange for accepting lower initial wages of $14.50 to $18.50 an hour.
Delphi is the largest U.S employer in China, yet in the U.S they file bankruptcy, cut wages by $14 per hour and close most of their U.S plants.
A prime example of the Bush economy.
AP:
ReplyDeleteHe lies flat, unseeing eyes fixed on the ceiling, tubes and machines feeding him, breathing for him, keeping him alive. He cannot walk or talk, but he can grimace and cry. And he is fully aware of what has happened to him.
Four years ago almost to this day, Joseph Briseno Jr. was shot in the back of the head at point-blank range in a Baghdad marketplace. His spinal cord was shattered, and cardiac arrests stole his vision and damaged his brain.
The 24-year-old is one of the most severely injured soldiers — some think the most injured soldier — to survive.
"Three things you would not want to be: blind, head injury, and paralyzed from the neck down. That's tough," said Dr. Steven Scott, head of the Polytrauma Rehabilitation Center at the Tampa VA Medical Center, where Briseno has twice been hospitalized for extensive care. In recent days, Briseno was hospitalized yet again, this time at the Washington, D.C., VA Medical Center.
"They told us, 'Prepare for his service.' That's how bad he was," said his father, Joseph Briseno Sr., a retired career Army man.
But he survived. From Germany, he went to Walter Reed Army Medical Center in Bethesda, Maryland, then to McGuire VA Medical Center in Richmond, Virginia. In December 2003, he went home, to Manassas Park, Virginia, where his parents, Joseph Sr. and Eva, quit their jobs to care for him.
"All our savings, all our money, was just emptied ... the 401(k)s, everything," said Joseph Briseno, who took a new job a year and a half ago to make ends meet.
This is how Bush takes care of the wounded soldiers in his war.
Pathetic.
I have never nor will I ever ask of my Country to do for me, I simply give
ReplyDeleteto her without question.
Let's see... The country is the people not some perfection not to be questioned. If the founding fathers had thought like this young man (soldier) then we would have folded the card tables long ago and never been considered the beacon of light to some.
Patriotism is a crutch for those afraid of reality. Humanity hasn't much time for people such as this.
I dont agree with that one. Patriotism is a love for one's country - whatever form that love may take. Some enlist in the military, others sit at home and type on blogs, others run for office, and still others go to work and raise their kids to be decent people. All of those are a form of patriotism. Patriotism isn't a crutch for people afraid of reality -- to me, Patriotism IS MY reality.
ReplyDeleteThe other reality is George Dubbledum Bush and Herr Cheney are destroying the country that I know and love. Patriotism is the reason I am not fearing that reality, because I know they will not succeed. We're better than that.
I'm not sure this guy is making a whole lot of sense. On the one hand, he seems to disagree that this war is accomplishing what he was told it would, that it's main goal was to protect us from "them", yet on the other, he feels he's defending us from them.
ReplyDeleteThe guy's really confused.
Voltron said...
ReplyDeleteAnd Clif, if it WAS based on lies those lies began well before Bush was president.
Was Bush providing the intel for the Clinton administration too?
Clinton didn't send kids the age of your son into harm's way, pussy. He maintained a no-fly zone PROBABLY BECAUSE THE INTEL WAS THAT F*CKING BAD, DIPSHIT!
Another troll stomped courtesy of Actor212, a wholly owned subsidiary of Actor212 Enterprises, a Cayman Islands Corporation
Voltron said...
ReplyDeleteIt doesn't matter anymore why we're there or who is responsible. We ARE there. There are only TWO options, we can win it, or we can lose it.
We could never win this. We could only lose it.
Guess what, idjit?
clif said...
ReplyDeleteInteresting the reichwinger idiots like Dolty Boy always want to bring up Vietnam as the example of what could happen if we leave Iraq, BUT they never tell the whole story of why Vietnam was so bad.
Vietnam is a thriving semi-capitalist society that has better health care than the US does. It's infant mortality rate is far better than ours (yea...pro-life America...), its poverty rate is declining much faster than China's, and just recently joined the WTO, meaning it will likely explode, economically. It's telephonic infrastructure puts America's to shame (the entire country is digital, and there are no wireless dead spots, even in the deep jungle), all while transitioning from an agrarian society to an industrial one.
How did it go "bad", precisely?
Doltron and the rest of the Chimpleton morons have signed on to the 21st century version of the "Domino Theory," even though any idiot that ever got a map of the region out and looked at it knows there's no way in hell all the countries in that region will ever go Wahhabi/Muslim Brotherhood/Salafi.
ReplyDeleteThey are so desperate to feel good about their worship at the altar of their moronic monkey Messiah that they have become worms, always digging down deeper to avoid the light of the truth.
How did it go "bad", precisely?
ReplyDeleteWe f'd them pretty good with our unexploded ordnance and Agent Orange. They're still paying the price.
Imagine what joys await the Iraqis from all that DU.
Very good assessment of the latest operation in Iraq;
ReplyDeleteBaquba Can't be Held by Iraq Troops: Bednarak
by Juan Cole
This AP story made me angry. I admire a straight shooter, so I am glad that Brig. Gen. Mick Bednarak admitted to AP that the Iraqi Army is not up to actually holding the neighborhoods in Baquba that US troops recently cleared, in hard fighting, of Salafi Jihadi guerrillas.
So Baquba is a city of like 300,000 northeast of Baghdad, in Diyala Province. Diyala has a 60% Sunni majority, and it had a lot of Baath military bases in the old days. It is now ruled by the (Shiite) Supreme Islamic Iraqi Council, which benefits from the province's proximity to Iran. The previous Iraqi military commander had to be fired because he was helping, behind the scenes, Shiite militias.
So the Sunni Arabs in Baquba are done out. They have a Shiite government in their province that they don't want, and they have a Shiite/Kurdish government in Baghdad that sends Shiite troops of the Iraqi Army against them. The Sunni Arab neighborhoods of Baquba have thrown up local militias, and they have made alliances with Baathi and Salafi Jihadi cells.
The US military spent last week trying to 'clear' these Sunni Arab neighborhoods of 'al-Qaeda.' But I doubt they have Bin Laden's telephone number. They are just local guys or foreign volunteers who don't like seeing Sunni Arabs subjected to Shiite ayatollahs and secessionist Kurds.
As US troops fought on Sunday, they discovered that the guerrilla leaders had set mines and then made themselves scarce.
So after 6 days of hard fighting, in which US troops were killed and wounded, what do we have?
A sullen, defiant Sunni Arab urban population.
A guerrilla leadership that slipped away.
An Iraqi army unable actually to hold the 'cleared' neighborhoods, which are likely to throw up more guerrilla leaders and campaigns.
A continued dominance of Sunni Arabs in Diyala by a Shiite government completely unacceptable to them.
A US commitment to upholding the Shiite ("Iraqi") government.
So I am angry because this looks to me like we sent our guys to fight and die for a piece of political quicksand in which the entire endeavor is likely to sink.
It is not right.
Doltron prattled,
ReplyDeleteThat may well all be true, yet there were certain realities and global contexts present which made some of those actions seem like wise choices at the time. (which you like to ignore)
Wrong again. Iraq never made any sense, and our own top brass tried to tell your Messiah he was making a BIG mistake.
We know what happened to them, don't we?
The only soldier that I knew who went to Iraq came home 13 months later and he was safe and sound. Hopefully this soldier will have the same luck.
ReplyDeleteHey Jr,
ReplyDeleteI know lefties don't like reading and all, but that reply was to Clif who was expounding on the evils America has committed since man invented the wheel.
We weren't talking about Iraq.
Get a clue.
mch,
ReplyDeleteI dont agree with that one. Patriotism is a love for one's country - whatever form that love may take.
Humanity my friend would disagree with you on this point. That was my point when I wrote that humanity hasn't much time for those that think that their country is worth more than another.
Defending ones homeland is different than aggressive strikes based on nothing but lies. I do not cut down soldiers themselves. I make it known that I am certainly behind the troops at the same time I feel a strong connection to the fate of the Iraqi people whom we have delivered a hell beyond our comprehension. I support the troops, not in a patriotic way, but in a humane way. In my opinion it is humanity that takes a step back with every bomb, every bullet fired, even every war, especially one that is in the name of patriotism.
The notion that a radical is one who hates his country is naïve and usually idiotic. He is, more likely, one who likes his country more than the rest of us, and is thus more disturbed than the rest of us when he sees it debauched. He is not a bad citizen turning to crime; he is a good citizen driven to despair.
In the United States, doing good has come to be, like patriotism, a favorite device of persons with something to sell.
The love of one's country is a splendid thing. But why should love stop at the border?
I know lefties don't like reading and all, but that reply was to Clif who was expounding on the evils America has committed since man invented the wheel.
ReplyDeleteI know Chimpletons like to deny and obfuscate but in the general context of the ongoing conversation, the assumption almost had to be that the decision to invade Iraq was implicitly included.
As one of that invasion's staunchest protector/defenders, I'm afraid you are sans legs yet again for your faux complaint. But the feigned attempt at intelligence was amusing.
Poetryman:
ReplyDeleteI couldn't agree with you more. It is easy to hate, as Bush has shown, but it takes someone decent to care for the innocent ones that Bush has chosen to destroy.
Patricia:
ReplyDeleteThanks for stopping in and for your comment.
You are one of the fortunate ones to not know a soldier killed in this mindless war.
Divajood, Patricia, Poetryman, Average Patriot, Bartlebee, Lynn
ReplyDeleteThank you for your insightful comments. It is very important that we get the truth out there. Every bit helps to destroy the lie.
Lynn,
ReplyDeleteI tried to find your comment on mercenaries in the comment file, but it's not there.
Sorry about blogger. We will switch soon.
Thank you for commenting.
And of course, thanks to Mike, Clif, Carl, Suzie, Tom Cat, Worf, Jolly Roger, Volt and of course LARRY!
ReplyDeletexo
Carl said...
ReplyDeleteI'm not sure this guy is making a whole lot of sense. On the one hand, he seems to disagree that this war is accomplishing what he was told it would, that it's main goal was to protect us from "them", yet on the other, he feels he's defending us from them.
The guy's really confused."
I'm sure that the delusional fool has NEVER made sense........and confused is being diplomatic......he's a goosestepping Chimpleton, he;s brainwashed Volksturm.
Poor Widdle Twucker...he got his ass stomped again, and so he has to try to change topics.
ReplyDeleteAgain.
Hey, Twucker...what part of "Know your role and shut your mouth" ain't clear ta ya?
Jolly Roger said...
ReplyDeleteDoltron prattled,
That may well all be true, yet there were certain realities and global contexts present which made some of those actions seem like wise choices at the time. (which you like to ignore)
Wrong again. Iraq never made any sense, and our own top brass tried to tell your Messiah he was making a BIG mistake.
Agreed.
America has done some dumb things in the past...using the Gulf of Tonkin as an excuse for Nam leaps to mind...or the Maine for the Spanish-American War...but this instance was one where any pretext of innocence was thrown out the window, and we committed the war crime of naked aggression against an innocent people.
Naturally, Widdle Twucker's weading compwehension was not sufficient to see that nuance in your post.
You wonder how he learned to drive a twuck.
Some gutless punk said;
ReplyDeleteWe weren't talking about Iraq.
Get a clue.
Your full of she-it and stupid to boot son, we WERE discussing Iraq
Iraq as the present problem and Vietnam as a previous example, among other counter insurgencies which were doomed to FAIL from the start because they didn't take into account the civilian populations resistance to being occupied.
But if the truth and reality means I'm, how did you put it?
Oh yea,
Clif who was expounding on the evils America has committed since man invented the wheel
Since I discussed the American Revolution, British empire counter insurgencies which failed, French counter insurgencies which failed, Soviet counter insurgencies which failed, and of course our attempts to control Vietnam Like we are trying to control Iraq, you think I am being anti-american?
If facts and the course history took is anti-american, where does that place you foole?
Creating a reality which never occurred but makes you happy?
Typical reichwingnut son nothing more, re read the thread and you might realize you lie so much you no longer know you do it.
We were discussing Iraq ID-JET.
Hey guys, did you see where Newscorp made 10 billion in profits and paid no income taxes, I think they own Fox
ReplyDeleteHolly said, Loving one's country means that we must hold our leaders accountable for what they do in our names.
ReplyDeleteHolly, Thoreau said the same thing when he said that real patriots are those who serve the state with their conscience.
Man Tomcat I must be a real deep thinker or I am guilty of plagarism
ReplyDeleteListen to Conservatives lie and piss and while..........SEnator Diane Feinstein asks for the Fairness Doctrine to be reinstated and Larry Krudlow says thats the end of Conservative talk radio.................Sounds like Krudlow is ADMITTING that Conservative Talk Radio's monopoly on diversity of opinion is NOT FAIR!
ReplyDeleteWhats wrong Krudlow Conservative talking points cant stand up to REAL facts and opposing opinions?
Reuters:
ReplyDeleteA suicide bomber killed six Iraqi tribal leaders opposed to al Qaeda when he blew himself up at a busy Baghdad hotel, in one of four attacks on Monday that killed 50 people in all, police said.
Another typical day in Iraq.
I'm not sure left wingers need talk radio as much as the right does. We think for ourselves and therefore we don't need to tune in to find our what we are supposed to think. We go searching for information, we don't wait for it to be handed to us. We don't need that.
ReplyDeleteI am sort of speaking for myself here, but I have a feeling I'm not alone. Yes, it's good to hear other lefties' point of view, but I don't depend on only that when I make up my mind about something. My decisions come from my heart and my mind, not from someone else's playbook.
Patricia:
ReplyDeleteIf the left wing would have started this years ago when the right winger did, we would be on a more level playing field.
pissed off patricia said...
ReplyDeleteI'm not sure left wingers need talk radio as much as the right does. We think for ourselves and therefore we don't need to tune in to find our what we are supposed to think. We go searching for information, we don't wait for it to be handed to us. We don't need that.
I am sort of speaking for myself here, but I have a feeling I'm not alone. Yes, it's good to hear other lefties' point of view, but I don't depend on only that when I make up my mind about something. My decisions come from my heart and my mind, not from someone else's playbook."
Patricia, while I see your point that we dont DEPEND on it like the brainwashed goosesteppers do.............think of the many people who are influenced by Conservative talk radio, the weak minded or easily influenced who think because they heard it on radio or tv from a person who sounded authoritative and like he knew what he was talking about.
There are a great many people who unquestioningly believe and accept what they hear on tv and radio and to have a single ideology control 91% of that is dangerous and irresponsible.........thats how the Iraq war was Sold to most of the nation and that forum is used to get people to vote against their interests.
A Sunday report by one of Britain's best political reporters in Washington posits that Sen. John McCain (R-AZ) is on his last legs and may abandon his bid for the presidency as soon as September "if his fundraising dries up.
ReplyDeleteGood one more Bush hugger about to fall by the wayside.
The Official George W. Bush
ReplyDelete"Days Left In Office"
Countdown:
574 DAYS
5 Hrs 39 Min 11.5 Sec
Are we about there yet?
The widening impact of a soft economy
ReplyDeleteThe numbers don't lie.
An independent survey of residential construction issued across the Treasure Coast from January through April showed a staggering drop in building permits — a trend analysts say is reflective of a troubled housing market and slumping buyer demand.
From January through April, Indian River County residential permits issued dropped 71 percent from the prior year while in Port St. Lucie the number of permits issued dropped 72 percent.
Residential permits dropped 70 percent in Martin County and 86 percent drop in Fort Pierce.
The effects of a softer housing market becomes apparent when you drive by blocks of vacant homes in what was once considered some of the hottest communities in Martin, St. Lucie and Indian River counties.
Subcontractors in the tile, carpet and upholstery industries were the first to experience the harsh ripple effects of the housing downturn, said Brad Hunter, who follows housing trends on the Treasure Coast and South Florida for Metrostudy's South Florida division. Now with those employers, real estate and mortgage firms laying off workers, the ripple effect is reaching the service sector.
"There's fewer construction workers buying lunch and getting haircuts now," Hunter said. "That's what I call the multiplier effect."
This year, payrolls have been trimmed at employers such as Indian River Medical Center, the Indian River County Property Appraiser, Harbor Federal Savings Bank (now National City Bank) and the St. Lucie Building and Zoning Department.
DiVosta Building Corp. and KB Homes shut their Treasure Coast divisions.
The lucky employees had their hours cut.
"I know some subcontractors whose hours have been reduced to four eight-hour days," said custom homebuilder Richard Hope, owner of Hope Co. in Vero Beach. "I've received half a dozen calls from subcontractors that are looking for work, and it's really pointless at this point because I'm down to my best people. People have got to be really hungry to just call you out of the blue for work."
Jack McCabe, CEO of McCabe Research and Consulting, a real estate consulting firm in Deerfield Beach said condominium builders in Miami have resorted to giving away a two-year luxury vehicle lease to rid themselves of excess inventory.
"Frankly, we are going to see a recession in 2008," McCabe said. "The housing boom drove us all into this paper wealth, artificial wealth that drove consumer spending."
McCabe said many homeowners refinanced their homes based on inflated values and the effects of that are about to hit Florida and the rest of the nation.
"Things are really bad in the Midwest and Northeast," he said. 'All those Baby Boomers we thought would move to Florida, well it maybe very troublesome for them to leave.
"For the first time last year we had more moving trucks leaving Florida than coming in because the boom made it very difficult for young families to afford living here."
With the number of foreclosures increasing locally and higher interest rates creeping into the budgets of local property owners, the local economy will start to feel the effects of tighter consumer purse strings.
Fran Love, owner of the Clubhouse Bar & Grill in Vero Beach said because business has dropped 25 percent since last year — she's had to make some drastic decisions.
"We don't open for lunch anymore, we open a 3 p.m." Love said. "It's like a snowball effect, everyone feels like there's a noose tied around your neck."
John and Regina Barczykowski, owners of Allen's Diner in Fort Pierce, says business has been unpredictable since the housing market started to slide.
"We're all feeling the affects of the housing market," John Barczykowski said. "Everyone is tightening their belts, doubt."
And that means the trickle effects will start to invade the economic lifeblood of the Treasure Coast — less discretionary spending on big-ticket items like boats, cars and big screen televisions.
"I don't think the loss of jobs here were reflected in our unemployment because many of those workers just went back to Mexico or Brazil or found work rebuilding from Hurricane Katrina," said Don Santos, past president of the Treasure Coast Builders Association and president of Santos Construction.
"But if you asked how many Ford pick-up trucks have been sold during the past six months compared to last year — I bet you the dealerships would say there were down by 60 percent."
Rich Barker, a broker of SUVs, motor homes, trucks and imports at Patti's Car County on US 1 in Fort Pierce is one who describes current sales as terrible — in part because of the softening housing market and because of higher gas prices.
"It's not just me feeling this, everyone down the street is feeling it," Barker said. "It's a new reality that no one wants to talk about because everyone wants the public to feel secure and happy so they'll spend more."
Bill Wallace, owner of Wallace Automotive Group, said the company is down 20 percent for the first four months versus 2006.
"I would attribute about 90 percent of that to the housing crisis," Wallace said. "Anybody that depends on the residential real estate market for a living isn't doing as well as they were a few years ago."
And this is with most people being told the economy is fine, wanna bet things have to be REAL BAD before the powers that be admit things ain't like they said they were.
Heck of a job georgie...........
I just don't believe that the people who are influenced by Fox news, et al, would listen to the left no matter what. They have their own mind set and they look for anyone who would confirm that. They want to hear Ann Colture (spelling? Who cares?) tell them thay what they believe is right. We couldn't do that. They want to hear that we are godless and she tells them we are. You really can't fight or change that thinking.
ReplyDeleteThese two paragraphs bear repeating;
ReplyDelete"Frankly, we are going to see a recession in 2008," McCabe said. "The housing boom drove us all into this paper wealth, artificial wealth that drove consumer spending."
"It's not just me feeling this, everyone down the street is feeling it," Barker said. "It's a new reality that no one wants to talk about because everyone wants the public to feel secure and happy so they'll spend more."
The truth slips out.
Thank you Alan Greenspan and George Bush.......
pissed off patricia said...
ReplyDeleteI just don't believe that the people who are influenced by Fox news, et al, would listen to the left no matter what. They have their own mind set and they look for anyone who would confirm that. They want to hear Ann Colture (spelling? Who cares?) tell them thay what they believe is right. We couldn't do that. They want to hear that we are godless and she tells them we are. You really can't fight or change that thinking."
No you cant change that type of thinking but you could prevent or make it far more difficult for the moderates or the intellectually lazy to be deceved and led astray........the far right blindly loyal goosesteppers are a lost cause but look how MANY were deceived into supporting GWB and his illegal war 90% of America did at one point BECAUSE of the media sorcery and mind control of the Conservative controlled MSM.......its a huge problem our Media is controlled by a cabal of conservatives who push their agenda rather than truth facts and REAL news......there are a few media empires that push what the owners want them to push.
pissed off patricia said...
ReplyDeleteI'm not sure left wingers need talk radio as much as the right does. We think for ourselves and therefore we don't need to tune in to find our what we are supposed to think. We go searching for information, we don't wait for it to be handed to us. We don't need that.
That said, there is an element of lefty that needs talk radio.
I recall in the inaugural days of Air America, spending a lot of time on their blogs in 2004. Not a day went by where someone wouldn't log on and thank AAR for making them, poor isolated lefties, liberals, and Democrats in deeply red states, realize they were not alone, that the country on the whole was sane, and not bugshit crazy.
Hi Lydia and Guys! ;)
ReplyDeleteDid you see the article on my blog about the NeoCons sinking? LOL
Suzie:
ReplyDeleteI saw that article and the Brady Bunch squares of neocons you had with it.
Patricia,
ReplyDeleteI understand what you're saying, but a new poll today says that 41% of Americans still believe Sadaam Hussein and Iraq were involved in 911 and that's why we are in Iraq?
this is a result of 90% of all talk radio spewing lies.
Talk Radio is responsible for the propaganda. These people believe the lies Rush, Larry Elder, Hannity and over 900 radio stations across America and many thousands more owned by one conglomerate (who won't allow the TRUTH to be told because the TRUTH is "left wing" they think)
are spewing.
This is the reason we need the fairness doctrine. The myth of "liberal media bias" has to be shattered once and for all. There is no liberal media; it's all corporate-owned. Corporations are interested only in profit. Republicans give corporate tax breaks and the whole machine feeds itself.
We have no democracy if we don't have unbiased media.
These right-wing opinion shows have replaced real news.
If you guys havent seen Lil Bush, you need to watch it, its hillarious!
ReplyDeleteTax Breaks for Billionaires? Those Days May Be Numbered
ReplyDeletePosted by Stephanie Taylor on June 22, 2007 at 02:15 PM
Email this Print this Blog this Digg this
Some wealthy financiers who run private equity firms and hedge funds receive tax breaks worth billions of dollars, due to an obscure tax break. But those days may be coming to an end.
Right now hedge fund managers are shielded from the top income rate of 35 percent on their performance fees, and only have to pay a tax rate of 15 percent. Democrats in Congress are considering new legislation that would end that exemption. Top hedge fund managers bring home over $1 billion a year.
John Stewart is absolutely shredding Dick Cheney tonight!
ReplyDeleteTypical reichwingnut son nothing more, re read the thread and you might realize you lie so much you no longer know you do it.
ReplyDeleteWe were discussing Iraq ID-JET.
I was amazed he'd even try that tack. That one was too easy to take apart.
Sen Lugar changes his stance, and signs on to the Iraq study Group Idea of downsizing the US foot print in Iraq.
ReplyDeleteOops does he mean the surge was a bad idea?
does his cutting and running from the idiocy of all that is Bush mean other sycophantic re-pubies will also soon start to do the same?
BTW dolty boy the morons at blackfive who claim we are going to "win" in Iraq KNOW nothing at all, because instead of reading the FACTS on the ground like this they make up excuses to think something miracles will happen and those same MORONS claim we could have "won" in Vietnam if we just KILLED enough people for long enough they Vietnamese would have changed their minds and accepted US dominance after fighting the Japanese french and US for over a quarter century and losing upwards of 4 million people in the process....
ReplyDeleteTry this one son to see why the fiasco in Iraq is a lost cause because McDumsfeld and Bush allowed so much to go so wrong for so long nothing but a START over would change the situation on the ground now, and nobody but a complete foole would suggest upping the US comitment to 300,000 troops and starting to clear Iraq of foreign insurgents, and the Sunni and Shiite militias which are fighting to achieve a advantage for their factions in the civil war for control over different sections of Iraq.
Basra problems bode ill for U.S. Iraq strategy: report
By Alister Bull
BAGHDAD (Reuters) - Violence and infighting among Shi'ites in Basra are a warning that a last ditch U.S. plan to improve security in Iraq is badly flawed, a think-tank said in a report.
"The answer to Iraq's horrific violence cannot be an illusory military surge that aims to bolster the existing political structure and treats the dominant political parties as partners," said the Brussels-based International Crisis Group.
The report, issued late on Monday, said that Operation Sinbad, in which British forces tried to tackle armed militias and support Iraqi security forces in the southern oil-rich city of Basra, offered important lessons to learn from.
The current U.S. strategy in Baghdad -- a four-month-old offensive aimed at ridding neighborhoods of gunmen, deploying soldiers to hold the areas and then reviving economic activity -- appears similar to the British plan launched last September.
Sinbad initially helped calm Basra, Iraq's second largest city and its economic hub, but violence has since mounted and British forces have come under increasing attack there.
Britain recently reduced its troops to around 5,500 soldiers from about 7,000. The forces are also withdrawing to a single base outside the city at Basra airport.
Armed militias in Basra have meanwhile joined local security forces, but remain loyal to the Shi'ite political factions that dominate southern Iraq, the report said.
It said part of the Basra police was under the sway of the Mehdi Army of fiery cleric Moqtada al-Sadr, while the intelligence service was influenced by the Supreme Iraqi Islamic Council, previously the Supreme Council for the Islamic Revolution in Iraq (SCIRI), and the Oil Protection Force was controlled by Fadhila.
"Far from being a model to replicate, Basra is an example of what to avoid. With renewed violence and instability, Basra illustrates the pitfalls of a transitional process that has led to the collapse of the state apparatus," the ICG report said.
Much of the tension in Basra revolves around competition for control of southern Iraq's vast oil reserves as British forces draw down.
U.S. President George W. Bush has sent 28,000 extra troops to Iraq in a major effort to reduce violence that has pushed the country to the brink of all-out sectarian civil war.
U.S. public opinion has swung against U.S. involvement in Iraq and there is growing pressure to start bringing troops home.
The lesson from Basra was that political parties did not respect the law and were part of the problem, the ICG said.
"Basra teaches that as soon as the military surge ends and coalition forces diminish, competition between rival factions will surge," the ICG said.
"Prolonging the same political process with the same political actors will ensure that what is left of the Iraqi state gradually is torn apart... The priority is to confront the power structure ... by insisting on genuine political compromises."
BTW son, just so you understand it, Basra is the key city to the US military's logistical support upon which the entire occupation of Iraq rests. If the logistical situation becomes unsustainable because the situation in and around Basra erupts, t5he surge is dead, and no amount of reichwing spin or wild eyed claims by some supposed former military keyboard commandos can change that simple fact.
That is the lesson of the loss of an entire German army group at Stalingrad, they could NOT get the supplies they needed to continue the fight thus they were forced to surrender.
That is also the underlying fact of any siege, whether the blockade of Cornwallis at Yorktown by the French Navy as Washington was attacking from the ground, or what the Romans did to the Israelis at Masada.
Logistics is always the achilles heal of any military, which is why Admiral Halsey attacked the re-enforcements and supplies to Guadalcanal to stop the Japanese on the island from being resupplied thus undercutting their capabilities to continue the battle with enough effectiveness to prevail.
The same was true for the victory gen Grant achieved at Vicksburg, and why the Germans needed to capture US logistical supplies during the Battle of the Bulge, which they were unable to do which doomed that attack to total failure, because unlike their attack of 1940, they no longer had the logistics to fight the battle and win with out capturing supplies the US had.
Rommel's entire North African Campaign rested on the Germans a1bility to resupply him, which in the end the Germans were unable to do, thus at El Alamein, he didn't have what he needed to make a break thru and achieve victory.
Give you a widdle hint son, amateurs always look for the shock and awe aspects to think they can determine how well a battle can go, but people who study military history and the arts of war, KNOW it is logistics which determine who usually wins in the end.
The French were not able to sustain a logistical resupply at Dien Bein Phu, thus were forced to surrender in the end, however 14 years later the US forces were able to resupply Khe Sahn and prevent the NVA and VC from creating a US version of their greatest victory over the french, both battles outcomes rested MORE on logistical capabilities then and shooting from a military historical perspective son.
Other examples abound, but hopefully your John Wayne idea of how to win wars is being corrected by real military historical examples of what really works, and why this time the idiots went on country too far with a totally incompetent leadership both senior military and all civilians who were never served but advocated the greatest military fiasco since Roman times .......
BTW hows that age waiver request going son?
NPR:
ReplyDeleteDuring the weekend, details were leaked of an agreement between auto parts maker Delphi and the UAW. About 17,000 of the company's workers face a difficult decision: Vote "yes" on a new labor agreement that cuts wages about 40 percent, and possibly get a buyout; or vote "no" and take their chances with the bankruptcy court.
Word of the tentative agreement between Delphi and the autoworkers union came late last week, but details of the deal leaked on a dissident union Web site. The new contract would lower starting wages from $27 an hour to $14. The complex agreement would offer buyouts to veteran workers and incentives to others.
Some UAW members, mostly those who have been with the company for a long time, expressed displeasure with the deal. Several union Web sites carried postings exhorting members to "Vote NO."
But for newer employees, the deal may be better than seeing Delphi go out of business. Half of Delphi's workers are relatively new hires, and they could make up to $18.50 an hour under the new agreement.
This is the outcome of the Bush economy.
NPR:
ReplyDeleteHomes for Our Troops is a nonprofit grup that helps disabled veterans build new homes or retrofit old homes to adapt them to their disabilities.
But criteria for the government's Specially Adapted Housing grant exclude many severely disabled veterans, and the grant amount has not kept pace with the current price of a home.
Another result of the Bush compassion.
NPR:
ReplyDeleteFour Sunni, tribal leaders were killed Monday when a suicide bomber blew himself up at a Baghdad hotel where they were meeting with U.S. officials. The sheiks were associated with the Anbar Salvation Council, which has allied itself with the U.S. to help drive al-Qaida extremists out of Iraq's Anbar province.
More of Bush's war for oil.
In walks the RIAA, or the Music Royalty Board, or the Rich Executives Screwing Their Employees (RESTE). They want to take a larger chunk of the profits generated by these online stations. Well, as you can imagine, the profit line is pretty small, but those in power (or with the power of attorney) want even that small profit. Ignore the fact that if these stations close down, many will not hear music they might purchase. Ignore that this is great for the up and coming musicians. Ignore that this will only turn an already disgruntled public against you even more. Just generate more profit. More profit. More profit.
ReplyDeleteWell, in a quite amazing show of solidarity, many of the larger radio stations will shut down today for a Day of Silence in protest. They encourage you to contact your legislators to protest and encourage them to take action. Will it work? Possibly. Probably not, but if this goes through, many of these radio stations will close, ending independent music. Will it stop there? Once these corporations take over internet radio, sites like YouTube will fall under their crosshairs next.
Live 365
More of Bush's drive to silence the opposition.
GOP Senator Says Iraq Plan Not Working
ReplyDeleteBy ANNE FLAHERTY
WASHINGTON (AP) - Sen. Richard Lugar, a senior Republican and a reliable vote for President Bush on the war, said Monday that Bush's Iraq strategy was not working and that the U.S. should downsize the military's role.
The unusually blunt assessment deals a political blow to Bush, who has relied heavily on GOP support to stave off anti-war legislation.
It also comes as a surprise. Most Republicans have said they were willing to wait until September to see if Bush's recently ordered troop buildup in Iraq was working.
"In my judgment, the costs and risks of continuing down the current path outweigh the potential benefits that might be achieved," Lugar, R-Ind., said in a Senate floor speech. "Persisting indefinitely with the surge strategy will delay policy adjustments that have a better chance of protecting our vital interests over the long term."
Only a few Republicans have broken ranks and called for a change in course or embraced Democratic proposals ordering troops home by a certain date. As the top Republican and former chairman of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, Lugar's critique could provide political cover for more Republicans wanting to challenge Bush on the war.
Lugar's spokesman Andy Fisher said the senator wanted to express his concerns publicly before Bush reviews his Iraq strategy in September.
BTW just so's ya all know, when Sen Lugar suggested Ronald Reagan make the break with Ferdinand Marcos in 1986, Marcos was finished and had to run to Hawaii to live out his days.....
ReplyDeleteGeorge Bush likes to say it's because they're patriots, but the truth may have more to do with financial need and recruiters targeting those with limited economic options.
ReplyDeleteIn today's political climate, with two wars being fought with no end in sight, it can be difficult for some people to understand why young folks enlist in our military.
The conservative claim that most youth enlist due to patriotism and the desire to "serve one's country" is misleading. The Pentagon's own surveys show that something vague and abstract called "duty to country" motivates only a portion of enlistees.
The vast majority of young people wind up in the military for different reasons, ranging from economic pressure to the desire to escape a dead-end situation at home to the promise of citizenship
Lugar has supported this war from the onset.
ReplyDeleteLugar also used his power to avert a major highway away from his farm in Indiana, to an area where dozens of families were forced to sell their homes for the highway.
Lugar is a war lover, and a elitists landowner who abuses power over the less fortunate.
Lugar is a typical Republican.
However even Lugar know when to unhook his wagon from the Bush created fiasco's and he could provide cover for other republicans who want to do the same, he has been in the senate for a long time and does NOT scare easily like some do.
ReplyDeleteLarry I'm not a Lugar fan but he has enough credibility to undercut the coming Cheney-Kristol neo-con offensive this September with Gen Petreaus playing the military general who is willing to parrot the white House talking points for military advancement.
If enough republicans refuse to accept more Bullshit packaged by Bush Cheney Kristol, and the rest of the neo-cons, things might have a chance of changing before Bush is forced to go back to Crawford and cut brush
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ReplyDeleteClif:
ReplyDeleteI hope he will stick with it. Remember the non binding resolution on the war that John Warner was going to support, until he got a call from the White House.
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ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteThis is why Sen Lugar's questioning the surge is so important;
ReplyDeleteAP reports on the US troops wounded in Iraq:
More than 800 of them have lost an arm, a leg, fingers or toes. More than 100 are blind. Dozens need tubes and machines to keep them alive. Hundreds are disfigured by burns, and thousands have brain injuries and damaged minds. These are America’s war wounded, a toll that has received less attention than the 3,500 troops killed in Iraq. Depending on how you count them, they number between 35,000 and 53,000.
This must end.....
Check out the excellent article and even better photos on Peace Train titled "Is Bush Cheney's new lapdog."
ReplyDeletePeace Train
Clif:
ReplyDeleteYou seldom see anything on the news about those seriously and permanently wounded.
Newsvine:
ReplyDeleteBut what precisely is this American way of life that our military purportedly defends? We live in the richest country in the world, yet unlike other developed countries that have universal healthcare, tens of millions of people in this country do not have health insurance, and our medical care system comes in dead last behind comparable countries. Millions of children go to bed hungry every night, and our educational system is leaving far too many children behind. The standard of living of all but the rich has fallen, and people are losing their homes. Our energy use and wastefulness is a toxic disgrace.
In the name of all this, we squander trillions of dollars to send our troops to fight a war that was justified by lies. In Iraq, we have killed an uncountable number of innocent people and so destroyed the infrastructure of the country that millions of children are starving to death (one in eight children will die before their fifth birthday). Going to school or feeding one’s family is all but impossible, and millions have now become refugees living in unspeakable conditions. The result of all this is that violence continues to escalate, more and more people hate our country and the world is a far more dangerous place. And when all is said and done, we bring our wounded warriors home to the squalid conditions of Walter Reed Army Medical Center.
To defend a government that claims these actions in the name of “democracy” is hardly patriotic.
Larry out of sight out of mind, unless you happen to be a wounded vet or know one......
ReplyDeleteThe MSM is just doing the bidding of it's corporate masters, and the neo-con GOPers who hawked this illegal war, but are far too much of chicken-shit chicken-hawks to go fight it their selves.
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ReplyDeleteAfter reading three of the four articles about Cheney's unconstitutional stance on his role of the Vice President, I think I know where the "undisclosed locations" Cheney has hid in the lasy 6 years ... undercutting the will of the American People and destroying their country for the enrichment of a select few people Cheney calls friends or needs to consolidate his power.
ReplyDeleteMust be why so much of Cheney's own personal financial investments are outside this country, or in a company moving it's headquarters to Daubai .... the entire US is just another economic opportunity to be exploited by him from what I see.
Clif:
ReplyDeleteEveryday Lou Dobbs announces the deaths and gives numbers of the wounded.
He nor any of the others give the breakdown you had in the article of the amount of missing limbs, eyes, ect.
This is a shame.
Larry I use the Iraq Coalition Casualties Count website to get the totals, of both KIA's and wounded soldiers, along with quite a lot of other info they have in the stories they post.
ReplyDeleteThat along with Juan Cole's website, Larry Johnson's website and Col Pat Lang's website, I keep up with what the MSM refuses to cover.
Add in Information Clearing House, and Iraqslogger, and you can form a relatively good picture of what is happening there, and what the MSM, Pentagon and White House are trying to hide......
BTW the ICCC puts the deaths at 3563 so far, with KIA's with 86 so far this month.
ReplyDeleteCNBC is supposed to be a financial channel yet the were showing Paris Hilton getting out of jail...........who the hell cares!
ReplyDeleteExxon is rumored to be pulling out of Vennezula............Not good for the economy or the long mid term price of oil............looks like peak oil is upon us.
ReplyDeleteWe NEED a progressive in the white house that can lead us to energy independence before its too late.
I was watching a repug strategist on CNBC talk about health care...........it boggles the mind how dirt dumb stupid theese inbred idiots are, his solution for the heath care problem was tax cuts now PLEASE explain to me HOW ITS FAIR to give $150,000 to a fat cat CEO who not only has health care most likely but could well afford to pay for it out of pocket if he did not vs giving $300 to a poor person with a $80,000 medical bill will help him pay his bills or obtain health care.
ReplyDeleteRepugs dont have solutions they have a failed ideology that has NEVER worked...........Doug Basham is 100% right Conservatism is a disease its a form of insanity or mental illness.............Course maybe Duncetron can pop in and enlighten us as to how its fair and will solve the heathcare problem to give the poor who CANT afford medical treatment and healthcare a irrelevant $300 tax cut while giving the wealthy who CAN afford medical treatment and healthcare tax cuts in the hundreds of thousands of dollars.
The issues we need to focus on for the 2008 election are FAIRNESS and Competence and the repugs come up sorely lacking on both counts.
Dear Lydia,
ReplyDeleteI think Blogger just eats comments. I'm not quite sure what happens but I know its not anyone's fault around here!
On talk radio- I hear Patricia but I think on the other hand that one reason why the looney wingnut faction has gained so much traction is because they have been perhaps more strategic about it.
They organize around hate. They hit the streets while many of us pontificate in our coffee shops over a latte just TALKING about change. They get out there with their hate. AND WE MUST TOO.
They get their hate on the airwaves, and they repeat nonsense over and over.
I look at it this way, from a heuristics kind of view: some say that the more an image or threat is seen, the more it seems probable even when statistics tell us otherwise. So if we see an alligatopr attack on tv over and over, we will come to fear alligators disproportionately to say- the flu or drunk drivers. REAL killers, numerically speaking.
So suppose instead of repeatedly showing the twin towers, the networks showed Florida engulfed by water from ice caps melting. What if they showed it over and over?
Some say that we have developed some irrational fears, that they know exactly how to sell a war and package fear. And we dont on the left.
They packaged Iraq as a solution to an unrelated matter. Anyone who disagrees is soft on terror. meanwhile, you are still more liekly to die of the freakin flu.
So where's the war on healthcare???
Back to talk radio, I think their redundancy drills talking points into people's heads. I see little wingnut quotes sprinkled all around, all the same.
They feed people their irrational ammunition. Is it horrible to suggest that left talk radio might need to start some of that? Not spoon feeding soundbytes, but educating one another on responses to counter the ridiculous spin?
Thats my take on it, for what its worth. A few cents? :)
I wanted to mention that I appreciate your welcome tone here. Its busy but I dont feel lost or stepped on! I look forward to hanging out with you folks if you dont mind the difficulty I have with choosing what to respond to out of the many important remarks in the thread.
ReplyDeleteAnd I think Poetryman's remarks were thought provoking.
I think we must push for a cabinet level dept of peace and diplomacy, to push us to the task of developing a true stamdard for war and aggression. We need a guideline, a criteria that we as a society can look to when we debate morality of war as a solution or means to some end. The "end" in this case seems elusive.
Is it murder, or defense? What do we call the death of civilians, in a country that did not threaten us? What do we call actions that make us more vulnerable, that increase not decrease terror recruitment? Do we call people that create this...traitors?
They have used our military, killed in our name, and eradicated our credibility. Will people trust as at the table after this?
No- I dont blame the soldiers and I respect that not all conflicts are the same. There is a role for defense and protection. But does THIS scenario line up with our way of thinking about war and its necessity?
Is it just, is it moral? Is it even doing what they claim, are we safer, is the region more stable?
Wow! Great post Lynn (8:40AM), and we're glad to have you btw!
ReplyDeleteThanks for posting that, Lydia. My heart goes out to him and to all the soldiers out there. If only this heinous administration would not treat these heroes like so much Charmin.
ReplyDeleteLarry King bumped his interview with Michael Moore so that he could interview Paris Hilton tomorrow night and be the first to get her. If that doesn't tell you all you need to know about the media's interest, what does?
ReplyDeleteBoooooo!
ReplyDeleteHe's an idiot then.
Ok actually on the other hand, its crazy to think that people have alot of choice nowadays on what they put out there. People debate the liberal media, as though people have complete editorial freedom and content autonomy.
ReplyDeleteYeah, like CNN can ever hit hard like Democracy Now. MY comment was naive, but rooted in disgust.
Public media/radio is the way. For now at least.
If I was Michael Moore I wouldn't reschedule.
ReplyDeleteLast night on Hannity and Colmes, Ann Coulter stated that only the right wing have religion down right.
ReplyDeleteAlan Colmes actually grilled her, and got her to confess that. He made her look like a fool, which is amazing for Alan Colmes.
Ann Coulter said live on the air, that only the right wing are good Christians.
Coulter is a moron, did you here them ripping Coulter on LIL Bush................The "Decider" must be steaming if he watched that show it makes a mockery of his bumbling idiocy incompetence and nazi like McCarthy talk.
ReplyDeleteBTW Volt i'm still waiting for you to enlighten us.......in fact i'll repost what i said earlier just for you.
ReplyDeleteI was watching a repug strategist on CNBC talk about health care...........it boggles the mind how dirt dumb stupid theese inbred idiots are, his solution for the heath care problem was tax cuts now PLEASE explain to me HOW ITS FAIR to give $150,000 to a fat cat CEO who not only has health care most likely but could well afford to pay for it out of pocket if he did not vs giving $300 to a poor person with a $80,000 medical bill will help him pay his bills or obtain health care.
ReplyDeleteRepugs dont have solutions they have a failed ideology that has NEVER worked...........Doug Basham is 100% right Conservatism is a disease its a form of insanity or mental illness.............Course maybe Duncetron can pop in and enlighten us as to how its fair and will solve the heathcare problem to give the poor who CANT afford medical treatment and healthcare a irrelevant $300 tax cut while giving the wealthy who CAN afford medical treatment and healthcare tax cuts in the hundreds of thousands of dollars.
The issues we need to focus on for the 2008 election are FAIRNESS and Competence and the repugs come up sorely lacking on both counts.
pissed off patricia said...
ReplyDeleteLarry King bumped his interview with Michael Moore so that he could interview Paris Hilton tomorrow night and be the first to get her. If that doesn't tell you all you need to know about the media's interest, what does?"
I completely agree with your point Patricia, the MSM is trying to dumb us down by sensationalizing and feeding us BS instead of real news..............But like I said before who the hell cares about Paris Hilton, I sure dont want to hear about her............Thats why I dont even bother to watch the news.
He IS an idiot if he bumped Michael Moore for Paris Hilton!
ReplyDeleteCIA opens the book on a shady past
ReplyDeleteDeclassified ‘family jewels’ detail assassination plots, break-ins, wiretaps
By Alex Johnson
Reporter
MSNBC
Updated: 1 hour, 25 minutes ago
The CIA declassified nearly 700 pages of secret records Tuesday recording its illegal activities during the first decades of the Cold War, publishing a catalog of adventures that run the gamut of spy movie clichés from attempts to kill foreign leaders and intercept Americans’ mail to garden-variety break-ins and burglaries.
“Most of it is unflattering, but it is CIA’s history,” the CIA’s director, Gen. Michael Hayden, said last week in announcing plans to release the documents, which had been considered so sensitive that they were known internally as the agency’s “family jewels.”
Much of the material had previously entered the public record through nearly 30 years of requests by academics, authors and journalists under the Freedom of Information Act. But publication of the materials Tuesday by the CIA itself marked a major step in the agency’s public acknowledgement of its sometimes sordid history.
The documents were compiled beginning in 1973 at the order of then-CIA Director James Schlesinger, who wanted to be prepared for congressional investigations he expected in the wake of disclosures that arose during the Watergate scandal. Schlesinger’s successor, William Colby, was outraged at much of the material, which he collected in a report to President Gerald Ford in 1975.
A possible kidnapping
Among the disclosures, gleaned from a six-page summary prepared in January 1975 by Associate Deputy Attorney General James Wilderotter and a review of documents by MSNBC.com, are that the CIA confined a Soviet defector, Yuri Nosenko, in a cell from August 1965 to September 1967, fearing he might be a plant.
Nosenko, deputy chief of the Seventh Department of the KGB, was responsible for recruiting foreign spies. He claimed to have been the KGB handler of the case of Lee Harvey Oswald, who he said was rejected as not intelligent enough to work as a KGB agent.
After more than two years confined in a cell with only a cot, Nosenko was released and was given a false identity. He became an adviser to the CIA and the FBI for $35,000 a year and a lump sum $150,000 payment for his trouble.
The papers indicate that the CIA regularly confined defectors for interrogation, but only outside the United States, and the agency was concerned that the detention of the Soviet defector might violate kidnapping laws. “The possibility exists that the press could cause undesirable publicity if it were to uncover the story,” David H. Blee, chief of the Soviet Bloc Division, wrote in a memo.
Operation CHAOS — still sensitive
Even after more than 30 years, the CIA chose to keep scores of pages partly or totally blacked out.
Much of the redacted material appears in sections relating to Richard Ober, the deputy to James Jesus Angleton, the agency’s legendary chief of counterintelligence, and head of the Special Operations Group. Ober directed Operation CHAOS, a highly secretive covert operation to spy on racial, anti-war and other protest groups inside the United States.
The CIA’s charter bans domestic spying, but i n 1976, the final report of the special Senate subcommittee headed by Sen. Frank Church, D-Idaho, to investigate CIA abuses concluded that the CHAOS project had amassed files on more than 7,000 American citizens and 1,000 domestic organizations. That information was disseminated in thousands of reports to the FBI and other agencies.
The plot to kill Castro
The papers also reveal new details about the CIA’s plots to assassinate foreign leaders. Among them were Cuban President Fidel Castro; Patrice Lumumba, the democratically elected president of the Democratic Republic of the Congo; and Rafael Trujillo, the Dominican dictator.
Of special interest to many historians will be the CIA’s attempts to persuade organized crime figures to kill Castro. The plotting began in August 1960, in the final months of the Eisenhower administration. The documents reveal for the first time that the CIA’s director at the time, Allen Dulles, knew of and approved the operation.
Working through a go-between, Robert Maheu, a former FBI agent who did work as a private investigator for the CIA, the agency approached Johnny Roselli, who was believed to be a high-ranking Mafia official. Roselli offer
CONTINUED: The plot to kill Castro
wonder how much of that criminal activity occured under repug administrations?
ReplyDeleteHolly said Man Tomcat I must be a real deep thinker or I am guilty of plagarism
ReplyDeleteHolly, probably the former. When I studied philosophy in college, I learned that those ancient Greeks actually had the audacity to steal my best ideas thousands of years before I was born. ;-)
Bartlebee said:
ReplyDeleteast night on Hannity and Colmes, Ann Coulter stated that only the right wing have religion down right.
Alan Colmes actually grilled her, and got her to confess that. He made her look like a fool, which is amazing for Alan Colmes.
Ann Coulter said live on the air, that only the right wing are good Christians.
__________________
This PERFECT that Ann Coulter said that!
This is what my book is all about.
I am so glad she keeps sticking her big foot in mouth.
New blog thread is up: ANN COULTER IS THE ANTI-CHRIST
ReplyDelete"by coming over here with the extra pay and the like we can keep our
ReplyDeleteheads above water and make sure our families can survive.."
So the guy goes to Iraq to earn money, not for some patriotic ideal.
. There is a greater place and my Lord has a place for
me in it."
Religious fundamentalist?
"we have to protect
our Country for whatever threat. "
What threat has Iraq ever been to America?
To be honest, I see the letter as a piece of military propoganda, written by a scriptwriter.
600,000 dead Iraqui civilians, 3 million homeless, typhoid, radiation poicsoning, polluted drinking water, open sewers, torture camps, detention without trial, use of airplanes to bomb civilians, the list goes on.
Whoever wrote this letter wanted sympathy for the american military, and unquestioning patriotism.
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ReplyDelete