Sunday, January 08, 2006

THE TAPESTRY * SPYING ON AMERICANS

"To announce that there must be no criticism of the president, or that we are to stand by the president right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public." - Theodore Roosevelt

THE TAPESTRY

Imagine if the human pageant were just a tapestry — and God sees the complete picture on the finished side, but from our vantage point below, we only see dangling threads that keep disappearing as they are woven in and out. As people pass on, certain threads disappear because they are part of a grand stitch that completes a beautiful landscape — or picture on the other side. We can’t see the whole picture. But God can. We don't know the reason for death and suffering; we don't know what's on the other side, but I'm sure there are many mansions and colors -- and the weave creates a majestic tapestry.

Somehow in this day and age, we’ve seen too much, done too much, been too naked. There’s too much hard-core violence and porn in the airwaves. We can’t really take it back and become innocent again. But I really want to be a virgin again in more ways than one. There is nothing in the physical world left to want, do or imagine. I don’t want one more luxury or gadget to make my life easier except maybe a Gizmo can opener. I don’t think anything impresses anyone anymore. Except seeing, actually seeing God. The great mystical force of love inside us all. I was thinking about the tragedy of the hurricane and the tsunami – and how many bodies have rotted and evaporated – how quickly human life is snuffed out. It proves to me what I’ve always known: that man is not made of matter, that rotting flesh has no essence in and of itself --- no matter how real the illusion seems. Man is spiritual; we are linked to the Divine mind, the one mind, God -- and to each other with the fabric of love.

This is a universe of thought. Thought is energy and it is swift (too bad those lying 'Boat Veterans' forever ruined the word 'swift' for me, which just proves I am too much a victim of my thought.) Here's the Catch 22: what you think about all day long, is what you become; what you focus on grows. Whatsoever things are good, pure, lovely -- think on these things and you will bring these into your life in proportion to your thoughts. Our thoughts create our reality, and as Shakespeare said, "There is nothing either good or bad, but thinking makes it so." It's just so hard not to be horrified by this administration, the lies they told, the Machiavellian way they operate -- and the way they aligned themselves with truly good people in order to make liberals seem like heathens. This is a travesty. Liberal is not a dirty word: it's a great word. It means FREEDOM LOVING!

I have the profound sense that we can touch God everyday when we are loving to others, especially those who offend us and disturb us, and especially those less fortunate. Have you seen someone's face light up with just one kind word? Anne Frank was a pure and loving soul and thank God we have her diary to describe for us man's inhumanity to man. I have heard that at the moment of death, we transcend suffering - that it is removed. They did a study of people whose heads hit the tarmac after an explosion, and one woman who "died" and then was revived, said that she did not feel anything but went straight to the "light" as heaven embraced her. ** No one is going to hell by the way, unless their thoughts are already there and they are consumed with hatred for their fellow man.

I lived in Holland and visited Anne Frank's hiding place; it is so eerie to think humans can do this to other humans -- disparage an entire group of people and actually get the masses to believe that Jewish people were as worthless as rats. We have to be careful not to do this with any group - even extremist Muslims. The tendency in this divisive culture is to lash out at each other, and I have been guilty as well when I speak of the religious-right. But this new breed of militant "Christian" has completely missed the point of Christ's teachings and turned many people off to Christianity in the process. And I believe they are partly behind our foreign policy and this rush to war.

SPYING ON AMERICANS
"It seems the Bush administration — being a group of sane, informed adults — has been secretly tapping Arab terrorists without warrants" -- from ANN COULTER "WHY WE DON'T TRUST YOU (Democrats) WITH NATIONAL SECURITY" January 4, 2006

Tell that to James Moore, who is on the "No -fly list". He was once one of GW Bush's good friends, until he wrote a book called "Bush's Brain" about Karl Rove. He is all-American, not Middle Eastern, has no Middle Eastern business and has never had a connection to a terrorist. Now he is forbidden to fly anywhere -- and has no way to get off the list. WONDER WHY HE IS ON THAT LIST!!!

My friend Chaz has an analogy of this administration: "A frog will not jump out of a pan if you turn the heat up slowly."

God Bless the miners' families, the brave soldiers we have lost in Iraq, and Ariel Sharon. Our prayers are with you. I am deeply humbled by our men and women in the military, and in awe at their courage and sacrifice. These amazing people are true super-heroes -- along with fire fighters and police. God Bless those who died for our freedom.

438 comments:

  1. Lydia,

    "Anyone ever wonder why the first time in US history we used electronic voting, the President who ordered it, also happened to be running in the race? And anyone ever wonder why, the first time in US history we used electronic voting, the President who ordered it, also ordered that there be no paper trail?"

    The President may have requested it, but he can't just "order it", and it was congress which passed it.

    http://www.fec.gov/hava/hava.htm

    And it was not an immediate nationwide mandate, many places still used punch cards, and in many places that had electronic voting, punch cards were availible. As to the paper trail, that option was left to the local election officials most of whom decided not to go with machines which had that capability because of the additional cost. Not because the President "ordered it".

    And since you seem to like the reference to gay marriage so much you've posted it twice now,

    (and that cartoon certainly has judgemental overtones....)

    Marriage is NOT merely a "private contract between two individuals".

    It has at least two components, one civil, one religious. If two gays want to have a "civil union" I personally see no problem with that, but I don't think you can demand that clergy (or God) ordain something they feel is a sin.

    Also, we live in a democracy. Well actually a representative republic, but the people still get to vote and they voted in several states NOT to allow gay marriage. So, unless you want to rewrite the constitution....

    And as food for thought, Did you know that in early America just after the writing of the constitution the penalties for "sodomy" ranged from castration to death? We've come a long way from the founding fathers.

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  2. Also just as a personal observation, I used to run around with a girl who had many friends who "claimed" to be gay. In my experience the vast majority were simply perverts who'd do anybody anytime anywhere, and probably a few inanimate objects as well. That said, there were one or two who seemed genuinely gay.
    I have no problem with what two (or more) consenting adults do behind closed doors but I DO have a problem with educators who feel the need to teach our children (usually without our express permission) that homosexuality is a viable "alternative lifestyle". I DO have a problem with Hollywood (figuratively) ramming it down our throats in supposedly "family oriented" movies and television. I also think gays can be their own worst enemy in defining themselves as people by their sexual orientation. Most wear it on their sleeves. I don't introduce myself as "Hi!, I'm Eric - I'm hetrosexual", and if I've just met you I really don't want to know that much about your sex life.

    -Just my opinion

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  3. Liberals enjoy pummeling folks with traditional values as “homophobic” bigots. The vast majority are not. Liberals equate broad opposition to the concept of gay marriage as homophobia by the “Religious Right” bogeymen. It is not.

    California has a Domestic Partners Rights Act which grants gay couples virtually all of the rights usually reserved for married heterosexual couples. There are similar laws in many states.

    California voters also passed Proposition 22, which only recognizes “marriage” as between a man and a woman. It passed 61% to 39%--nearly 2 to 1. Many states have passed similar propositions.

    Despite the wishes of the vast majority of California voters, San Francisco Mayor Gavin Newsom began issuing marriage licenses to homosexual couples. Governor Schwarzenegger was then vilified by gay rights activists for stopping this flagrant violation of the law. As usual, the elite Liberal intelligentsia is attempting social engineering through our court system, thwarting the will of the people and their democratically elected representatives. What an arrogant distain the self-anointed Liberal elite have for the wisdom of common people!

    In Canada, homosexual marriage is legal. Canada also has a birth rate of 1.5 persons per woman. This is far below replacement levels; Canada, like many European nations, is rapidly dying demographically. Immigration is their only hope to sustain their existence as a country, and immigration without assimilation is a disaster as France has found.

    I submit that the fundamental purpose of marriage is to provide a stable home environment for raising children. Studies show that most children benefit tremendously from being raised in a traditional two parent home. Such homes have been decimated in recent years by the welfare state, narcissistic sexual attitudes, rampant out of wedlock births, and high divorce rates. The family unit is the fundamental building block of society; it desperately needs to be respected and strengthened. If the family unit is in deep trouble, society enters a death spiral. The institution of marriage in its present form has existed for centuries. Is it “homophobic” to suggest that we need to carefully consider what we are doing before we mess with the very foundation of society?

    Apparently Liberals like Ms. Cornell find it a sufficiently convincing argument to demonize their opponents with naughty words. Unfortunately for them, simply calling folks with traditional values things like “bigots” and “pot-bellied rednecks” will not work because decent people are already comfortable with what they find their own hearts. Folks capable of critical thinking must have an argument with substance before they consider changing an institution so vitally important to the fate of civilization.

    Now that gay couples can have civil unions granting the same rights as heterosexual couples, why do gay activists fight so hard to be allowed to “marry”? The only reasonable conclusion is that this fight is not about “marriage” per se; it is about acquiring, by force, society’s stamp of approval on a person’s choice of the gay life style.

    The 10th amendment to the U.S. Constitution states: “The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the states, are reserved to the states respectively, or to the people.” In other words, if something is not spelled out in the Constitution, the states and their people get to decide.

    Roe vs. Wade passed in 1973 allowing abortions nationwide. As with gay marriage and polygamy, the U.S. Constitution is silent with regard to a federal policy on abortion, notwithstanding bogus linguistic hat tricks. Thirty three years later, America is still bitterly divided on this issue. This is what happens when the Constitution is used for bird cage liner instead of respected as the foundation for liberty.

    My point is simply this: If you want to change society, then do it the right way. Put your ideas in the arena of public opinion with competing ideas and let the best ones win democratically. It is very difficult to challenge any law which has been legitimately passed by the majority of the people in a free society; the moral weight of popular opinion is massive. If you want to change the Constitution, there are procedures for amending it. Don’t Democrats believe in democracy too? If you allow arrogant justices to do whatever they please, despite the will of the people, we no longer live in a proud and free democratic nation; then we then live in a monarchy where judges reign.

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  4. Eric and FF -- Since it's Sunday morning, I was in the process of adding stuff and I took out the word "Redneck". My sister is gay, so I am especially sensitive to "Christians" who malign others.

    I am researching the electronic voting issues and will repost an in-depth article later, with some breaking news.

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  5. James W11:50 AM

    Eric you make some good points about gays wearing it on their sleeve. Maybe you are referring to the parade.

    But Freedom Fan, if being gay is something you're born with, then why is it so horrible to allow them to get married? Like Drewl said a few days ago, it was once illegal for a black man to marry a white woman. I don't understand why you want to make gay people feel like second-class citizens.

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  6. Anonymous1:23 PM

    Lydia - I need time to think based on your response. Will get back to you and Worfeus with my bigger picture. Thanx for your response.

    I have reserved Victor Frankl's book from my local library ; I was amazed it was out.

    Take care
    Johnny moo moo

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  7. But Freedom Fan, if being gay is something you're born with, then why is it so horrible to allow them to get married? Like Drewl said a few days ago, it was once illegal for a black man to marry a white woman. I don't understand why you want to make gay people feel like second-class citizens.
    -James W

    James, your argument would be valid if you were able to identify a "gay gene". As you know, chromosomes determine who someone is biologically. There are genes for racial characteristics but it is my understanding that there are no similar genes which dictate homosexual behavior just as there are no genes for bi-sexuality or polygamous behavior. Forensic criminologists can test someone’s DNA and determine his race and gender. However I believe it is impossible to learn someone’s sexual orientation from similar objective tests. I have never heard of an Ob/Gyn doc exclaiming to new parents: “Congratulations! You’re going to have a lesbian.”

    I submit that sexual orientation is a choice which individuals make if perhaps subconsciously. Although I don't profess to entirely understand this phenomenon, I'm pretty sure it's not a result of genetics. Granted, sexual patterns, once established, are extremely difficult perhaps nearly impossible to change.

    This still doesn't change the fact that heterosexual reproduction and nurturing of children is vital to the very existence of a civilization, whereas homosexual behavior is not. I say this not to offend my gay friends who contribute a great deal to the richness of our culture. But it is disingenuous to deny biological facts.

    Perhaps I'm mistaken; if so please provide a link to a credible source which demonstrates that sexual orientation can be reliably established by testing someone’s genetics. Logically the burden to make the case for changing the status quo rests upon those who would change it; not upon those who support it. Folks who do not support gay marriage are not “evil”, just cautious. Adolescent name calling doesn’t lead to understanding and consensus necessary to bring about such fundamental societal change.

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  8. Ms. Cornell while our politics are polar opposites, I admire your taste in music. Loreena McKennitt is one of my all time favorites; I own all her eerily beautiful and mystic albums. Another little known but soul shaking artist is Eva Cassidy. She was a shy, plain looking young woman who was taken from us early in her life, but managed to cut several life changing albums. I recommend her Greatest Hits.

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  9. I'm also surprised at you Lydia for the Swift boat vets comment. 250 veterans are lying and only the 3 or 4 who supported Kerry are telling the truth?

    Kerry was the one who early on made his vietnam service a centerpiece of his campaign , nobody else. If you stick your hat up there somebodies gonna shoot at it and Kerry knew damnned well he gave them plenty of ammo.

    You SHOULD be ashamed of Kerry for his treasonous slandering of our troops during the "Winter Soldier" investigations.

    Also, did you know that Bush SIGMED form 180 authorizing the pentagon to release all his military records? The mainstream media claims to this day he hasn't released them. They also claim based on Kerry's statements that Kerry did! And the pentagon says Kerry NEVER signed form 180.
    And if you want to get into the AWOL charges, Bushes military records show he was honorably discharged. So do Kerry's of course but there has been some questions raised about wether he actually finished his enlistment with service in the Maryland Ready Reserves.

    http://ice.he.net/~freepnet/kerry/staticpages/index.php?page=AWOL

    "Because John Kerry was discharged from TOTAL ACTIVE DUTY of only 3 years and 18 days on 3 Jan. 1970, he was then required to attend 48 drills per year, and not more than 17 days active duty for training. Kerry was also subject to the Uniform Code of Military Justice. Additionally, Kerry, as a commissioned officer, was prohibited from making adverse statements against his chain of command or statements against his country, especially during time of war. It is also interesting to note that Kerry did not obtain an honorable discharge until Mar. 12, 2001 even though his service obligation should have ended July 1, 1972.

    Lt. John Kerry's letter of 21 Nov. 1969 asking for an early release from active US Navy duty falsely states "My current regular period of obligated service would be completed in December of this year."

    On Jan. 3, 1970 Lt. John Kerry was transferred to the Naval Reserve Manpower Center in Bainridge, Maryland.

    Where are Kerry's Performance Records for 2 years of obligated Ready Reserve, the 48 drills per year required and his 17 days of active duty per year training while Kerry was in the Ready Reserves? Have these records been released?"

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  10. FF, You and Lydia listen to all that long hair stuff?
    I prefer Led Zeppellin myself...
    LOL

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  11. On the gay issue, Ellen DeGeneres is a good example. When she first came out, she rubbed it in everone's face constantly. That turned people off and ended her show.
    She seems to have calmed down a little now and has a talk show that appears to be doing pretty well.
    I don't think that anybody really cared wether she was gay or not, they just didn't want to hear about it in every other word out of her mouth.

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  12. Anonymous3:25 PM

    Bush lied about his military service, they conveniently doctored or lost his records, blacked them out and he got out of finishing Airforce training school.
    Hardly any republicans in Congress served in combat, or very few. Kinda strange for war-mongers, don't ya think?

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  13. I agree Eric, pretty much.

    People talk about it way, way, way, way, way, way too much.

    I don't really like hearing the details of hetro-sexuals personal actions in the bedroom, and I would rather not hear about those of the gay men either.

    Of course, I guess I could lower the bar on that for some good lesbian escapades :D

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  14. Anonymous4:11 PM

    LOL WORFEUS :D

    Johnny moo moo

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  15. Anonymous5:38 PM

    On issue of gay marriage I see no reason why gays should not be allowed to marry, whatever their reasons are wether it is for domestic rights/tax considerations, personal reasons etc..

    that being said, I think Eric made a good point that the exhibitionism and defining oneself as gay where the person is constantly giving play by play details of all of their sexual encounters and every word out of their mouth is talking about or promoting the gay lifestyle is wrong, and something I dont support either. Youre right, Ellen De Generes did do this and it was a big turn off.

    Mike

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  16. Anonymous6:18 PM

    Freedom Fan, you raised some good points in your post last night, after thinking about it you are right the majority of my views are Liberal and I definately do lean to the Left. Also after thinking about it from your point of view, I guess it it difficult not to use generalizations while debating, however the thing I do not like is when these generalizations lead to us stereotyping or labeling people and then inferring what we Think their views would be on other issues based on that stereotype. we need to look at what people actually say rather than what we think they will say.Thats one of the reasons I dont like being "categorized" as a Liberal the other is because the Republicans turned it into a dirty word, i'll never forget how Bush looked into the cameral during one of the presidential debates and said "My Oponent is A Liberal" with such disgust in his voice like it was worse than being a child molester.

    Freedom Fan i'm going to post some detailed examples of what i'm saying in my next post. but first i'd like to paraphrase one of your quotes
    Freedom Fan I think you are a very intelligent person and a worthy but misguided oponent.

    Now lets rumble

    Mike

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  17. Anonymous6:29 PM

    Well, it wasn't long ago when it was considered immoral, if not illegal, for blacks and whites to marry one another. The gay marriage thing is really no different, for all intents and purposes. The point being that it should be up to two individuals to determine if they should marry. It shouldn't be up to others to determine that for them, regardless of sex, race, religion or anything else. 

I've always found the uproar over gay marriage to be utterly silly. Whether or not gays can marry each other has no bearing whatsoever on heterosexual marriage. That's why some of these amendments that are called "The Defense of Marriage Act" are sheer nonsense. 

I sometimes will kid my wife that, once gay marriage is allowed, I'm going to divorce her and marry that handsome hunk down the street. Could anything be more ludicrous?!

I have a number of friends who happen to be gay or lesbian. Why should I be legally entitled to marry someone because I'm a man and I'm heterosexual, but they are not allowed to do so because the person they want to marry is of the same gender? Does it somehow impact me if they CAN marry? No. I'd be happy for them.

I once heard someone say that life is too short and too hard for most people that why should it matter WHOM we should happen to fall in love with. Just finding that person and committing to that person should be a wonderful thing. 

Yet, as we know, there are people who feel threatened by it for some unknown reason. It's sad.

    reposted from DREWL's comment a few days ago

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  18. Anonymous8:13 PM

    Ok Freedom Fan you've made some blanket generalizations about what you think my views are as well as others without regard for what I actually said, i'm going to take some quotes from several of us and I would like to hear your response.

    I look forward to your retort!!!

    Freedopm Fan said "U.S. Conservatives are passionate about freedom and defending the country which established it
    with the creation of the U.S. Constitution in 1776. Liberals are passionate about robbing our
    freedom in exchange for security provided by the state."

    Really, from where I sit it seems Liberals are the only ones pasionate about trying to defend our freedom and civil liberties from a powerhungry meglomanaiac Excecutive branch that is running wild and trampling over these Freedoms and civil liberties under the guise of of security, and it seems the conservatives are the ones who crave this PROTECTION from the state. I do not live in fear and do not need or want the type of protection president Bush is providing.he's turning the whole world against us even former allies.


    Freedom Fan said "Liberals believe the U.S. Constitution is a ““living breathing”” document which means whatever
    they want it to mean, regardless of original intent. Attempting to change the Constitution without
    due process is an ominous threat to liberty and represents a fundamental violation of the
    Constitution itself."

    I agree whole heartedly that Attempting to change the Constitution without
    due process is an ominous threat to liberty and represents a fundamental violation of the
    Constitution itself, in fact I think you should inform The Bush Administration of this immediately. One of the core principles of our Founding Fathers which is timeless and still very relevant today was to establish checks and balances so one branch of government does not become too powerful. Our Founding Fathers would be turning over in their grave if they saw what was happening today, Freedom of speech is being compromised, if you criticize our president or the war, you are LABELED unpatriotic, the president feels he should be able to authorize spying on our citizens as well as war. This is a blatent power grab by the executive branch.

    "They who would give up an essential liberty for temporary security, deserve neither liberty or
    security."
    - Ben Franklin
    Freedom Fan, this is fantastic quote you posted by Ben Franklin that I think Conservatives need to take more seriously.


    Freedom Fan said "Liberals appear to believe that the ends justifies the means and as such have a very cavalier
    attitude towards pursuing truth, as I have demonstrated on many occasions. Liberals have little
    trust in the wisdom of common folks and our traditional values. They insist on using the courts to
    impose their own elite views upon the benighted masses, rather than allowing people to choose
    their own destiny through the democratic legislative process."

    I think Conservatives believe the ends justify the means, just look at all the assaults on our personal freedoms and civil liberties as well as the so called war on terror all in the name of keeping us safe. and as for a cavalalier attitude to pursuing truth look at the justification for the war, there was none, there were no weapons of mass destruction, there were no ties between Iraq and terrorist the Bush Administration even admits there was "FAULTY INTELLIGENCE" Pun fully intended and no arguments there.As for imposing elite views on the masses I think the Excecutive Branch particularly the Bush Administration has allready cornered the market on that, they are trying to circumvent both the judicial and legislative process. but this appear ok to you.

    Mike

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  19. Anonymous8:15 PM

    Good post Worf

    and FF, I gota lot more coming buddy

    Mike

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  20. of that I am certain...buddy

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  21. John Cornyn said on Meet the Press this morning,

    "the most extreme violation of your civil liberties is of course, death at the hands of a terrorist"

    I beg to differ Senator Cornyn.

    The most extreme violation of our civil liberites is life under the rule of a tyrant.

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  22. Mike,

    Freedom of speech does not mean freedom from dissent. You can still say whatever you wish. (within reason and logic - you wouldn't want to yell fire! in a crowded movie theater if there wasn't one for example)
    That said OTHER people have a right to speak their minds as well.
    If you want to dissent you have the power to do so, no one stops you.
    If I were to say you were "unpatriotic" thats MY free speech.

    The Ditzy Twits are a good example. Even though they've tried to cry foul, nobodies marched them off to a gulag or had them executed.
    They had their say and then the American public had theirs. I am not obligated to buy anyones merchandise when I vehemently believe what they did or even said was wrong.
    Radio stations, advertisers and retailers also have a right not to support anyone who they personally may disagree with or which casts them in a bad light with the public causing them to lose business or money.

    They had their say, the rest of the country had theirs. Until I see them in a jail somewhere for crimes against the state I doubt their "Freedom of speech" was abridged.

    Especially when Maines thinks she should be able to repress the free speech of Toby Keith for instance.

    I'm sure Freedom Fan will have more with your other comments, and I may too after I go back through them more closely. This is just one that particullarly irks me.....LOL

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  23. Anonymous8:57 PM

    heres some more Freedom Fan

    Freedom Fan said"Similarly, when Conservatives say ““patriotism”” liberals hear ““jingoism”” because they don’’t
    believe their country is anything about which to be particularly proud.

    Freedom Fan, this is complete BS and insulting, Lydia Cornell said"never taken anything for granted and I LOVE my country more than anyone I know." and as for my view, I feel the same, I love my country and am very proud of it,Its the best place in the world that doesnt mean I agree with EVERYTHING we are doing and dont think we can't make things better. This is my point, you are infering things based on what YOU belive a Liberal thinks or believes as it is obvious neither Lydia or I actually said this.

    Freedom Fan Said "However, you apparently believe that being a good Christian requires you to ““turn the other
    cheek”” regardless of circumstances. I submit that if you know that someone intends to harm you
    or your loved ones and you do nothing, you are worse than a sucker. In this case you have
    betrayed the fiduciary responsibility to protect your loved ones, and you are probably dead. May I
    assure you that if someone wipes out 3,000 of my countrymen and blasts a crater out of a quarter
    of New York City, the next thing the bastard sees will not be my cheek."

    Freedom Fan again Lydia never advocated doing nothing, she said we should go after the real terrorists heres the quote "I would love to have gone after Osama and the actual terrorists, instead of wasting our MOST
    PRECIOUS SOLDIERS ON A FAKE WAR FOR PURPOSES WE DON'T EVEN KNOW!
    11:28 PM" again you were wrongly assuming what people thought based on a stereotype, this administration allready admitted going to war based on wrong information, arent you even the least bit worried they are wrong about other things as well or are relying on more "FAULTY INTELLIOGENCE" or flawed logic????

    Freedom Fan said"This is the same fundamental reason liberals continually lash
    out against Conservatives: envy, laziness and greed. This is the same reason that they identify with
    and coddle our islamist enemies as well as common criminals. The mindset is identical."

    The above quote was a reply to Lydia Cornell, and Lydia basically echoed my point that Conservatives paint a label on ALL liberals and basically assume that they all believe the exact same things regardless of what they actually say. its pretty clear from the post what Lydia's views are heres the quote

    "How dare you say that any American CODDLES OUR ISLAMIST ENEMIES? This is what's
    wrong with our political discourse: people like you who have a mindset that all people fall into
    one of two categories. This breeds the kind of hatred that brings down nations. You don't know
    me. I am a freedom-loving, hard-working mother of two sons and a follower of Christ. I have never taken anything for granted and I LOVE my country more than anyone I know."

    my views basically mirror Lydia's but I would like to add as for envy laziness and greed, I certainly dont envy conservatives,and I find it insulting to be called lazy, I worked 90-100 hours a week for years to put myself through both college and graduate school and am working two jobs right now to pay off student loans and credit card bills from school.As for the greed, I am intelligent and hardworking and if I were truly greedy I could be making far more than I now am doing something else, but that thought doesnt even enter my mind, I like what I do and think it is more important to help people and make a difference in their life than make a few more bucks. many times I work 7 days a week on my own time to give kids a place to go and keep them off the streets. One more thing, I think its pretty bobvious its the conservsatives that are lashing out.

    Mike

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  24. Anonymous9:04 PM

    Eric, i'm not trying to be a jerk here honest, but it appears what your saying is freedom of speech is ok as long as we dont disagree with you or President Bush?

    As for the Dixie Chicks they were silenced, you never heard from them again afterwards just like anyone else who didnt agree with the NEO Cons, even fellow conservatives, look at what happened to Paul O'Neil and Colin Powell, two conservatives who I will admit to having respect for. read Paul O'Neils book sometime, its a great read.

    Mike

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  25. Worf,

    "The most extreme violation of our civil liberites is life under the rule of a tyrant."

    With life under the rule of a tyrant, you MAY still have a FEW civil liberties left, and regaining them later after his being deposed would remain a possibility.

    Once your dead you've pretty much lost ALL your civil liberties.
    (we can discuss the afterlife later)

    And if you think Bush is truly a tyrant, I'd hate to see what you'd do if we ever had a real one.

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  26. Mike,

    No offense taken.

    My point is this:

    YOU have a right to say whatever you wish about me or the president.
    (your free speech)

    I have a right to say that it's unpatriotic if I feel it is.
    (my free speech)

    You have a right to say whatever you wish. You DON'T have a right to NOT be called on whatever you say by others expressing THEIR freedom of speech.

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  27. Anonymous9:28 PM

    Eric, YOU have the right to say it is unpatriotic, but I dont think government officials have that right, because in my view that is trying to surpress freedom of speech that like saying I am the ultimate authority and you cant disagree with me without being unpatriotic.

    And your right they didnt get thrown in jail for it, but the way they were silenced it sure appeared to me that there was some form of government retaliation, now I could be wrong, but i could also be right.

    Mike

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  28. Mike,

    Besides democracy, we also live in a capitalist system.

    If an entertainer or a politician for that matter says anything that offends enough people THOSE people have a right NOT to financially support them.

    The Ditzy Twits were not silenced. After they used their right to free speech, a great number of their ex-fans exercised their freedom by not purchasing their products. The advertisers then expressed their freedom not to continue to support people who could no longer benefit them financially, and radio stations expressed their freedom not to carry an artist who in turn would've made them unprofitable.

    The same for O'neil and Powell. Hell I just heard Powell on some show the other day. If their books aren't selling it's not because they're being silenced. Their books just aren't selling and publishers won't publish them gratis.

    I think O'neil had had his 15 minutes of fame, and Powell, well I'm sure we haven't heard the last him.

    Just like you and me buddy. We have freedom of speech, but if we can't make it profitable to a publisher or the media we DON'T have a right to be heard. And even if we could force them to publish our books or put our mugs on TV, we can't force the people to buy them or not change the channel.

    ReplyDelete
  29. Anonymous9:44 PM

    Eric, one more thing I dont disagree with you and FF on everything you both make some good points that I have acknowledged them. we probably dont see eye to eye on the majority of our political views but I do think FF is and intelligent guy and i'm not trying to bash him. would like to hear his response because even though i'm pretty sure I wont agree with many of them, i'd like to try to understand how he thinks and where hes coming from. I also want to show that you guys are assuming you know how some of us think or feel or where we stand on certain issues by lumping us in with how you think all liberals think rather than looking at what we say, and if the shoe were on the other foot you guys would be frustrated and insulted also, I mean I am not lazy, I am not unpatriotic, I love my country, I do not support welfare to people who are too lazy or lack the desire to work or better themselves, and I do not want to lets the terrorists get away with 9/11etc....


    Mike

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  30. Thanks, Anonymous, for re-posting my earlier comments. I think they are quite apropos to some of the issues in the current thread.

    You know, through the years, I've had a number of friends and colleagues who are gay or lesbian. And with very few if any exceptions, all are wonderful, upstanding individuals who never wore their "gayness", if you will, on their sleeves. In fact, I had no idea for quite some time that some of them were, in fact, gay. But the relationships that they have, aside from the fact that they often have to "closet" them to some degree, are not unlike any relationships that I have had as a heterosexual.

    Are there some gays who are more outgoing or promiscuous with their sexuality than others? Absolutely. But I must say that I've known a helluva lot of heterosexual men AND women who have lived similarly promiscuous lives. Believe me, the stories I could tell. Let's just say that there an awful lot of kids out there who would be seriously embarassed to learn what their moms and dads - those supposed pillars of virtue that some have mentioned - once did with or without their clothes on. Sexual promiscuity is an equal opportunity pastime.

    I am married with two wonderful kids. I take a lot of pride in trying to do the right things for my kids and in trying to be the best possible parent that I can be. But just because one is heterosexual doesn't mean that all is "The Land of Ward and June Cleaver" in American heterosexual households. Physical abuse, drug and alcohol addiction, crime, divorce and a multitude of other things can and do pose problems for households headed by heterosexuals. So let's not paint it as the be-all/end-all panacaea that some with an agenda make it out to be.

    Two committed adults, regardless of sexual orientation, can provide a loving and nurturing environment for children. Many of the childless gay and lesbian couples that I know, some who have been together for a long time, would make absolutely wonderful parents. Would all of my friends who are gay make great parents? No. But then I know a lot of heterosexuals who wouldn't, either. I'm sure we all do. Again, sexual orientation should neither dictate the ability of two people to have a monogamous, committed and RECOGNIZED or SANCTIONED relationship, nor should it dictate their ability or suitability to raise children.

    I know that some other topics have been raised in the previous posts, but I won't get into those today. Suffice to say that we all have our opinions and we all are entitled to not only have them but also to share them. We may disagree, but hopefully we can appreciate another's opinion even if we don't quite understand it or agree with it.

    Just remember to open your hearts and your minds, if only just a bit, to see that there are a lot of things in this world that would cease to be problems if only we'd let them be. We often try to make our lives and our beliefs more difficult and more pained than they need to be. That may sound a bit esoteric to some, but it would make our co-existence much more pleasant and rewarding if more people did so.

    Ciao.

    ReplyDelete
  31. As far as the president goes, or any other politician for that matter, I don't think you lose your civil liberties just because you've been elected to public office.

    We elect them pretty much on rhetoric anyway, so if you don't like what they say, vote them out of office.

    Anyways, gots to go to work in the morning so g'night folks!

    ReplyDelete
  32. Anonymous9:50 PM

    I dont really think the age group that listen's to the dixie chicks would be motivated by politics I think they just buy whatever album they like, I think it was more where the administration and FCC, put pressure on the advertisers and radio stations to blackball them and put them in their place. I have no evidence to support this but thats my gut feeling

    Mike

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  33. Anonymous10:05 PM

    Oh my God - did you write that Lydia or did you read that somewhere the Tapestry is so beautiful. It sounds like you speak "with authority" and I am so touched by the beauty of your words. thank you.
    Chris

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  34. One last thing before I go, I am tired and I hope I express this clearly.

    On the issue of conservatives thinking liberals are unpatriotic, it strikes me that there is a time and place for everything.

    Lets say you and your wife WERE America. You're having a big party and all your friends are there and your enemies are peeking through the windows.

    Your wife suddenly commits a social faux pas.

    If you really love her, you'll take her aside perhaps in another room to talk to her about it.

    You wouldn't do it loudly in the middle of the room with everyone looking on and listening.

    My point being, we MUST appear unwavering to our allies and united against our enemies.

    We shouldn't be airing our dirty laundry over the public airwaves in a time of crisis, and not with the politics of personal destruction.

    If we must disagree lets have it out beforehand or after the crisis has passed, or simply go to the polls in the next election cycle and vote against the ones we disagree with.

    ReplyDelete
  35. Ah, the gay thing yet again...I’m a ‘straight’ man, but I do have a few lesbian friends so here’s my two cents worth - the funniest thing that just so happened to happen tonight. I'm getting ready to go to a buddy's house and thought, 'gee, I haven't popped on here in a while so I wanted to check out what Lydia has written recently' because I'm a huge admirer and I just can't get enough from such a kindred spirit. :D I'm really looking forward to her books when they come out too.

    In any case, before getting home and packing my things to go to my buddy's house I had just come from the book store with my "Lesbian" friend. While we were there I picked up yet another copy of the Bible with what Jesus said in red. Gotta love it. There was a student bible to lead you to all the "pertinent scriptures" right next to it. Naturally, I looked up the scriptures referring to "homosexuality" which were listed as Leviticus - you know the ones of the different laws that also include tattoos being a sin as well as eating shrimp - yet some people put too much emphasis on homosexuality. The funny thing is I guess lesbians are okay because Leviticus 18:22 Literally says, "Do not lie with a man as one lies with a woman; that is detestable." It doesn't say anything about lesbianism there. Gee aren't we supposed to take it like it is written. Naturally I'm kidding but I'm merely pointing out how ridiculous the right wingers are. Now the interesting part was the scripture listed for the New Testament in regards to homosexuality...it had only ONE scripture listed and it is Galatians 6:7-8
    "7 Do not be deceived: God cannot be mocked. A man reaps what he sows. 8 The one who sows to please his sinful nature, from that nature will reap destruction; the one who sows to please the Spirit, from the Spirit will reap eternal life." <-Ok first of all, Jesus apparently did not say this because guess what boys and girls...that's right - it's not in red. Second...I don't see anything that states gay or homosexual in it at all. As a matter of fact the heading to the chapter is "Doing Good to All." Yet another right wing misinterpretation of scripture! This just makes me wonder why people continue to take only one or two sentences out of the a chapter in the bible and make a mountain out of a molehill. They have taken it completely out of context, and yet I bet some of them have tattoos and eat the “all you can eat shrimp dinner at Sizzler.” Just kidding but you get my drift.

    I really feel like protesting the protesters at the pride festivals when they're down there telling all the gays and lesbians that they're going to hell because God hates them. I'd love to be there with a gigantic sign that states the quote "Judging Others" Matthew 7:2 "2 For in the same way you judge others, you too will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you." I’d do it but then I’d be doing the same thing in reverse so I guess it’s a lesson the right-wingers will have to learn on their own when judgement day arrives.

    You can't bother using the first verse with these right wingers its all they'd see. You have to just go straight to the second verse on this one. In any case, there is no way anyone can tell me my friend is going to hell. She is one of the sweetest, most good hearted, caring people I know. She'd give someone the shirt off of her back to help them out so just because she's gay...no. I know I'll see her in Heaven for sure.

    But here's one for Bush and Coulture who's too chicken to let you post anything on her site...

    Leviticus 19:11 "Do not steal. Do not lie. Do not deceive one another."

    Now what was that about weapons of mass destruction?

    Oh and here's a favorite for the evening...Leviticus again - don't you just love it -- Leviticus 19:16 the second sentence "Do not do anything that endangers your neighbors life. I am the Lord"

    Now how many 'neighbors' have died in this war? Which brings to mind a church show that was on this morning talking about planned parenthood clinics who killed so many hundreds of babies...ok so they're going with ‘thou shall not kill,’ so how many were killed in any war? What makes that killing ok? That's what I'd like to know.

    And how many died unnecessarily in New Orleans because Bush was too busy to show up right away until he could get his hand shaking PR shots in, and lets not forget how he refused to let the levy get fixed because he needed the money for the war. Furthermore, what about the human lives that were ignored of people who were trapped in their homes and were passed by and left to die because if they couldn’t be seen then no one was going to look for them because they were afraid of future law suits for breaking and entering. I personally would not sue someone for breaking my window in order to save my life. Granted some people actually might but you have to do what’s right and save the lives. Also what about the elderly people who were calling daily to find out when help was coming for them as the water was rising? Yet, they were left to drown in their beds in the convalescent hospital. Where’s the right wingers Christianity in all of that? Yet they can sit back letting our own people die and tell another country how to run their government. The war and all of this is a huge let down to America. God Bless the brave troops but my point is for every terrorist taken out a new one takes his place.

    Funny how my lesbian friend is all about peace and love yet these right-wingers let people die and rob from the rest of us with price gouging.

    Ann Coulture putting Lydia’s personal info on her site - every time I think of that it riles me up.

    Lydia: It just makes me want to rise up and be a guard for you. I'm sure you have some but still...I'd be wherever in a flash to help protect you and your family. That may sound odd but and I don't mean it to...just know I continue with prayers of good thoughts and protection for all of you. :D

    Just wondering too...when your books are available will we be able to buy them through your site?

    Off subject – on a happier note - I received my copy of Too Close for Comfort (2nd Season) earlier this week. It's so refreshing to watch my all time favorite show again. :D

    I also wanted to thank you again for your acknowledgment from the earlier posts and for what you wrote about for the New Year “May all the gifts hidden inside you make their way into the world, and may all your deepest dreams come true.” That one part in itself was so inspirational to me. I went out and bought a guitar and I am scheduled to start lessons in a few weeks. I was looking forward to starting school this semester and now with your warm thoughts to us I’m even more excited to see what my hidden gifts are.

    Take care, and God Bless you all.

    Sincerely,
    Rene

    ReplyDelete
  36. Patriots used to say, "give me Liberty or give me death",

    The new and improved republican patriot says

    "oooohh please Mr. Bush, take whatever liberties from us that you need, just please keep us safe"
    :O

    ReplyDelete
  37. Anonymous11:08 PM

    Lydia, fantastic post, I think i would like hear more of your views on spiritualism, that is such a broad subject and i'd like to hear your views in more detail when you have the time.

    Mike

    ReplyDelete
  38. Anonymous11:10 PM

    Johnny and Worfeus i'd like to hear more of your views on Religion, as I think we may be more
    similar than you think, although if you prefer to keep them to yourselves or just discuss them with
    Lydia I understand.

    Mike

    ReplyDelete
  39. Anonymous11:49 PM

    Gotta give credit where credits due, thats awesome Worf

    Mike

    ReplyDelete
  40. I agree with you on that Worf.

    ReplyDelete
  41. Rene -- what a beautiful post; thank you for your offer of protection and for all your amazing words.
    I have to print it out and read it again.

    God Bless.

    ReplyDelete
  42. Anonymous11:10 AM

    As for my views on religion,although I am not an Atheist and I do believe in God, I have been
    turned off to religion since I was a very young child, the reasons for this are basically the same as
    today, People like the Religious Right or Rich Jewish people who label and stereotype people,
    stand in judgement and look down on people less fortunate than themselves rather than going out
    of their way to help them.

    There have been so many terrible things throughout history committed in the name of religion,
    that not only have I been turned off to it, but I have also been creeped out by the fanatical zealots
    who use religion to promote what ever agenda they are trying to push. Also there should never be
    any type of ties between the church and the state, because no good has ever come out of it.

    After coming to this page and listening to Lydia I have to say I might have been a little judgmental
    and hasty, before I would have thought every religious person was a fanatic and been kind of
    creeped out by them. Although I don’t ever see myself as being religious, Lydia's views on
    Religion and life have helped me see that religion itself is not bad, its the people themselves and
    the beliefs they hold which can be good or bad.

    Mike

    ReplyDelete
  43. Anonymous11:11 AM

    The only positive I ever found in religion while growing up was it was a time to spend with family
    and friends that you cared about, and I have many cherished memories from celebrating holidays
    with friends of various faiths and religions.

    I think religion should put more than just lip service to going out of your way to help people or
    making them feel good. Lydia mentioned in her blog going out of our way to help others, and
    making someone’s face light up with a kind word or gesture.

    After reading this several memories came to my mind. The first is while working my way through
    college I was working and going to school full time, about 90 hours a week between both and yet
    every Friday I always found the time to take my grandmother out to lunch, she was sick with
    cancer off and on for years, and it was the highlight of her week when we would go out, her smile
    would light up the room.

    Another example that comes to mind is that I moved away from my home town about 4 years
    ago, my best friend who I’ve known since I was seven had a son who was six at the time and we
    were very close, and I’ve made every effort to stay in contact and try to visit twice a year if
    possible. well 2 years ago my flight was delayed and I didn’t get in till about 2:30AM I was
    staying at his house and when I got in his eight year old was waiting for me in his room (where I
    sleep) with the light on and a game set up and a movie going. When I walked into his room, the
    smile on his face could have lit up the room with the lights out, mine could have as well. We
    played board games and watched movies till the sun came up that night and almost all seven of the
    other nights as well, I think I got a total of 4 hours sleep the whole time I was there, but I
    wouldn’t change a thing. It was hilarious he actually got upset the one night my buddy invited
    some of our old friends over and we had an “adult night” away from the kids, he actually wanted
    to spend every minute with me. Which is a precious thing because kids grow up so fast and that
    probably wont be the case when he’s a teenager. You just cant put a price on things like that,
    showing someone you care about them is better than any amount of money.

    I can remember when I was working 90 hours a week to put myself through college and my
    Grandmother or Uncle or Mother would see how hard I was working and give me $20 or $50 and
    tell me to enjoy myself or go out and have a good time, while money was tight and it really
    helped, the act of kindness was even better. Another example, I just bought my first home and one
    of my co-workers who is very comfortable financially bought me a new table and chairs as well as
    a set of glasses (also bought me a Christmas gift) while what he gave me was great, the thought
    behind it and act of kindness itself was even better. Also we run rated chess tournaments at my
    work once a month and the fee for a membership is between $20-$40, one of our regulars who is
    19 years old and is struggling to earn his engineering degree while working 90 hours a week, and
    is also expecting a child kept saying he really wanted to come to our tournaments but just
    couldn’t afford it, so I bought him and membership, and I usually by lunch also when we have a
    tournament, while he truly loves chess and it probably serves as an outlet for him I think what
    really brought a smile to his face was that I cared enough to want to help him and try to make his
    life better.

    Even just a few kind words or an nice e-mail can bring a smile to someone’s face. I sent Lydia an
    e-mail showing my support about the whole Coulter incident, she probably gets a ton of e-mails
    from both supporters and enemies since her e-mail was posted, I never expected a response from
    someone as busy as her, but it made me feel good and brought a smile to my face that I did get
    one. Is it so wrong to go out of your way to help someone or say a few kind words, the
    Conservatives seem to think so, I don’t think helping a person who is breaking their back working
    90 hours a week to better themselves will destroy their drive, make them dependent or ruin their
    sense of achievement the smallest of gestures can mean so much.

    Mike

    ReplyDelete
  44. Anonymous11:16 AM

    I agree Rene, you made some excellent points, I agree with EVERYTHING you said, particularly about New Orleans and the Coulter Incident, and I too am looking forward to reading Lydia's books when they come out, she is such a cool and interesting person.

    Mike

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  45. Mr. Bush, and the right wing constantly talk about "honoring the sacrifice of our troops by "staying the course".

    In reality, the only way this President and those who follow him have to honor the sacrifce of our troops, is to sacrifice more troops.

    ReplyDelete
  46. Anonymous12:40 PM

    Yes! Agreed. This is not the kind of organized war with any rules of engagement; the theory that we are weakening our cause by speaking out against the war I think only exonerates the American people and strengthens American resolve too catch the real enemy. It shows our enemy that normal Americans are not the ones who are causing all the problems. It is our leaders who have forced innocent lives to be lost. The terrorists think they are doing something holy; they are mothers and sons and children who believe we are invaders. Once we leave their holy land, the suicide attacks will stop. We have to get rid of our pride.

    ReplyDelete
  47. Pride goeth before destruction, and an haughty spirit before a fall

    Proverbs 16:18

    ReplyDelete
  48. Anonymous2:41 PM

    nice post who ever you are?

    and Worf, another great one line zinger, maybe i'll have to try to keep my posts short and sweet too, after I fire off one more long one in respose to FF in the next couple of days

    Mike

    ReplyDelete
  49. Anonymous2:43 PM

    So Worfeus, what made you turn to the bible? also did you see my 11:10PM post from last night?

    Mike

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  50. The pride of thine heart hath deceived thee, thou that dwellest in the clefts of the rock, whose habitation is high; that saith in his heart,

    Who shall bring me down to the ground?

    Though thou exalt thyself as the eagle, and though thou set thy nest among the stars,

    ...thence will I bring thee down, saith the LORD.


    Obadiah 1:3- 4

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  51. I will disguise myself, and will go to the battle; but put thou on thy robes

    CHRONICLES 18:29

    ReplyDelete
  52. Anonymous4:04 PM

    Hey Worfeus, can you help me make a profile later?

    Mike

    ReplyDelete
  53. If you can't see the Link that says, NO BLOGGER ACCOUNT?, SIGN UP HERE, directly above the big button you click everytime you post, then I highly doubt it.

    ReplyDelete
  54. "the only way this President and those who follow him have to honor the sacrifce of our troops, is to sacrifice more troops"

    ------------------

    And ye shall eat the flesh of your sons, and the flesh of your daughters shall ye eat

    Leviticus 26:29

    ReplyDelete
  55. Anonymous4:37 PM

    yeah, but how do you get one of those cool pictures like Freedom Fan has???

    Mike

    ReplyDelete
  56. yea, those are cool :|

    ReplyDelete
  57. Anonymous6:34 PM

    Lydia - I have read & examined your tapesrty post several times on printout and have been struggling with my conscience.

    Your writings have the strong stench of someone who speaks from the heart in search of honesty and truth which offers yourself and mankind nothing but hope, therefore, I have no choice but to refrain from elaborating on the bigger picture; your efforts are good.

    And who knows, your well written, and very interesting tapestry theory, may in fact, have some merit. :}

    Johnny moo moo
    atheist

    P.S. Does Miss/Ms. Valkenburgh share your beliefs as it appears you are good friends? (Easy question for once) :D

    ReplyDelete
  58. Anonymous8:03 PM

    Boo Boo Fix.

    Exchange stench for "scent".

    Sorry Lydia

    Johnny moo moo

    ReplyDelete
  59. I kinda figured thats what you meant to say Johnny

    ReplyDelete
  60. Anonymous8:20 PM

    Thanx Mike. My own daughter is laughing at my mistake and rubbing it in.

    Johnny moo moo

    ReplyDelete
  61. No, I do smell something....

    ReplyDelete
  62. Anonymous8:35 PM

    Please elaborate Worfeus?
    I value your opinion.

    Johnny moo moo

    ReplyDelete
  63. twas that it were, just jokin around Johnny

    ReplyDelete
  64. Anonymous9:11 PM

    I like jokes Worf, but thats too serious.

    Johnny moo moo

    ReplyDelete
  65. you know me, always the kidder ;)

    ReplyDelete
  66. Anonymous9:23 PM

    Stop being crabby or Ill give you the Vulcan nerve pinch and wipe you completely out.

    Johnny moo moo

    ReplyDelete
  67. I wish someone would pinch me :|

    ReplyDelete
  68. Hey Johnny buddy,

    Question

    What do you think of Bill Maher?

    ReplyDelete
  69. Anonymous9:51 PM

    Thats funny, I was kinda hopin you would pinch me.

    johnny moo moo

    ReplyDelete
  70. Anonymous9:56 PM

    I dont have enough information about him to form an opinion. I do think Jon Stewart is funny though.

    Johnny moo moo

    ReplyDelete
  71. Is Bill Maher still on TV?, I used to watch him every night when he was on latenight. I'm a Bill Maher fan

    ReplyDelete
  72. Anonymous10:07 PM

    Hey Johnny tell me, did you ever believe in God? When did you decide to be an atheist?

    ReplyDelete
  73. Anonymous10:08 PM

    Sorry Worf , I misinterpreted your statement. Theres a great singles dance up here in the Toronto area - weird chix and everything :D

    ReplyDelete
  74. Anonymous10:16 PM

    Thats a tough one Worf ? I believe I became an atheist at a very young age due to the fact of something my grandmother told me that didnt make sense. She is Christian. Nothing traumatic or anything.

    Johnny moo moo

    ReplyDelete
  75. Anonymous10:19 PM

    10:08 PM Post
    Signed Johnny moo moo

    Johnny moo moo

    ReplyDelete
  76. Well I think you're cool.

    ReplyDelete
  77. You live in Toronto Johnny, i have family there, used to visit all the time when I was a teenager and in early 20's, its a cool place in fact I might try to make it up there this summer.

    ReplyDelete
  78. Anonymous10:32 PM

    You had my offspring laughing big time with your 3:29 PM post. As well as your previous cyclops post :D

    ReplyDelete
  79. Anonymous10:37 PM

    Mike: Sounds like I may have to allow you to buy me a drink at Oktoberfest in Kitchener :D

    Johnny moo moo

    ReplyDelete
  80. Sounds like a plan if i'm there that time of year, I grew up in Buffalo, and usually visit in August, but i'm considering visiting twice this Summer. I have to say October is one of my favorite times of year there.

    ReplyDelete
  81. Anonymous10:39 PM

    Once again :

    10:32 PM post

    Signed Johnny moo moo

    Johnny moo moo

    ReplyDelete
  82. Johnny, is Eaton's Center still around, how bout the Spagetti Factory, I think 2002 was last time I was in Toronto

    ReplyDelete
  83. How about you Worf, I seem to recall you saying you werent the relgious type even though your a scholar of the bible, feel like giving the short story?

    ReplyDelete
  84. Anonymous10:48 PM

    Yes Mike, Our city swells to twice its size during Oktoberfest, however , bring Worfeus with you- Id very much like to see him smashed :D

    Johnny moo moo

    ReplyDelete
  85. thats really weird, I replied to your comment johnny and my reply ended up before yours

    ReplyDelete
  86. Anonymous10:50 PM

    Mike - Eatons Centre is alive and well. Please go to top of blog for answer about the good Worfeus.

    Johnny moo moo

    ReplyDelete
  87. The top of this blog? or another one?

    ReplyDelete
  88. Anonymous10:55 PM

    Oh.... Dont mind that. Thats just Lydia trying to freak us out :D

    Johnny moo moo

    ReplyDelete
  89. Anonymous10:56 PM

    Mike- Previous blog.

    Johnny moo moo

    ReplyDelete
  90. Theres not much difference Johnny.

    I need a drink...

    ReplyDelete
  91. Anonymous11:01 PM

    Worf - I am a single father who has sole custody. Years of suffocating battle where I represented myself. Believe me , many rough copies when dealing with lawyers.

    Johnny moo moo

    ReplyDelete
  92. That was a good post, I think it was probably made just before I discovered this board. New Years Day was the first time I visited this site

    ReplyDelete
  93. You know, I wish Bill Maher was on network television. That they sensor too much is true, but Real Time is one of the best shows on Television, and I think Bill could easily pull off a 30 Minute talk show like Stewart or Colbert.

    Of course, he did probably suffer slightly the night Alan Simpson took him out for a ride.

    And from a big screen interview even. Personally, if I was John, I would not have let a guy named 'Kooi' buffalo me.

    But Bill's still the man. (cept that night)

    ReplyDelete
  94. He did, dont you remember late night with Bill Maher, I watched it every night, it was awesome

    ReplyDelete
  95. Anonymous11:09 PM

    Yes there this is. You are a general.I am a major.

    Johnny moo moo

    ReplyDelete
  96. Bill spoke out and made a comment against the war, and next thing you know he didnt have a show anymore

    ReplyDelete
  97. When is Maher on?

    ReplyDelete
  98. Anonymous11:15 PM

    Bill Maher was great on the Howard Stern Show with Beetle Juice - that I clearly remember.

    Johnny moo moo

    ReplyDelete
  99. Bill Maher is usually great. His satirical wit is unmatched, particulry when working with prepared material, but he is also quite gifted on the improv.

    But's what's with Andrew Sullivan on all the time?

    I think he just likes to stir things up, and hear himself talk.

    He's reasonably intelligent at least, but kind of....caustic...ya know?

    And with his Coulter friendship, I think the whole Carville - Matalin thing is admirable.

    Atheist?

    Who cares? Least I know he won't be trying to convert me to anything or making me wear any funny hats.

    That's true right? I mean, you guys don't have some sort of anti-church or something do you?

    ReplyDelete
  100. Anonymous11:24 PM

    Mike - Is that right regarding your 11:09 PM post?

    Johnny moo moo

    ReplyDelete
  101. yep, probably like 3 years ago

    ReplyDelete
  102. I was working full time and going to school full time, so I didnt have much free time for tv and that was one of the few shows I took the time to watch. I was really disapointed. Bill is cool though he kept taking shots at them right till the very last show

    ReplyDelete
  103. Anonymous11:28 PM

    Worf- Didnt you suspect you were debating Andrew Sullivan in a previous blog? Too lazy to look.

    johnny moo moo

    ReplyDelete
  104. Real time is still on HBO every Friday night.

    Or did I miss something?

    ReplyDelete
  105. I'll have to get someone to tape it for me, I dont get HBO

    ReplyDelete
  106. Just curious, how did you guys end up becoming regulars on this site?

    ReplyDelete
  107. If Bill and me had grown up in the same town, we would have ended up best buddies, I think.

    He's the reasonable satirist friend I always wanted but never got.

    ReplyDelete
  108. agreed, Bill Maher is awesome, I really miss the guy

    ReplyDelete
  109. he combines an intelligent reply, with the perfect one line zinger you'd love to say to the village idiot whos been spewing rhetoric all night with comedy.

    and your right Worf he is great with prepared material as well as improv

    ReplyDelete
  110. Hey Worf do you live on the left coast, or are you just a nightowl

    ReplyDelete
  111. Anonymous11:45 PM

    But Worf. How did you know it was Andrew Sullivan we were debating?

    Johnny moo moo

    ReplyDelete
  112. Anonymous11:54 PM

    I remember you saying: "Are you really Andrew Sullivan". and then Lydia blocked the post after that.

    Johnny moo moo

    ReplyDelete
  113. Anonymous12:02 AM

    Strange! Theres a Mike in "A Vision of Peace"

    Johnny moo moo

    ReplyDelete
  114. Never said I did, did I?

    What makes you think he was?

    ReplyDelete
  115. Anonymous12:07 AM

    Your blank face in your 11:31 PM post; like I was supposed to know better?

    Johnny moo moo

    ReplyDelete
  116. I like watching Bill Maher on Larry King.

    You're never quite sure if Larry is getting him, know what I mean?

    ReplyDelete
  117. But hey Johnny, what did you think about that time Alan Simpson buffaloed him from the big screen?

    I think it's the overwhelming size of the screen. I mean, there's Bill, standing there at a microphone, and Simpson's heads like 15 feet tall.

    That would scare anybody.

    ReplyDelete
  118. Anonymous12:22 AM

    Sorry Worf. I have no idea what your talking about. im so tired I could faint.

    BTW, I have made a video im Very proud of . Could you help me get it on the web to a specific site?

    johnny moo moo

    ReplyDelete
  119. I'm not quite sure what you're asking me.

    What is this video about?

    ReplyDelete
  120. Hi Lydia:

    Thanks for the note. I support you 100% always. :D

    I've been looking forward to reading your books for quite some time. I'm sorry I missed The Sylvia Plan though. Is there any way to still read it? Oh, and one more thing...I have both Sirius and XM radio so if you ever do an interview for either of one of them I'd love to catch a heads-up (if possible)when you would be on so I can listen in. I hope you're having a great night.

    Sincerely,
    Rene

    PS: A little something for everyone here...

    I went to the site tonight that has the info on the Shrimp and have some interesting info to post as a quote for anyone here who wants to read it...I tried to edit out any "bad words" sorry if I missed any.

    I found it at the following URL: http://www.godhatesshrimp.com/about.php

    "The point we're trying to make is that by using the Old Testament (specifically the book of Leviticus) as a basis for protesting gay marriage, you run into a couple of problems. The first is that in the New Testament, Jesus established the New Covenant, which stated that the old Mosaic laws about unclean things were invalid (Jesus in his own person said nothing specifically against homosexuality, although Paul later attributed some remarks to him). The second reason is that if you still want to quote from Leviticus, despite Jesus' doing away with Mosaic law, then you better be prepared to enforce the whole thing, not just the parts you like. This includes not only the injunction against shellfish and mussels and such, but also against wearing fabrics made of blended fibers, cutting or shaving your beard, sewing mixed seed in a field, and a slew of other things nobody takes seriously anymore.

    But, some of you say, in the original Hebrew, there are two words that were both translated as "abomination": toeivah, for homosexuality, and sheketz, for non-kosher food. Our answer to that is, sure, that's the letter of the law, but pretty mealy-mouthed, in our opinion - you take the "strict constructionist" viewpoint in this situation to justify your prejudice while still being able to eat what you want, while glossing over or ignoring other translation problems in other parts of the bible. You're still picking and choosing which rules you want to follow. Either follow all the rules, or admit that they're all outdated. (More about biblical mistranslations in Romans and Corinthians: What the New Testament Says About Homosexuality)

    But, still others say, what about 1 Corinthians? Paul says... Well, the easy answer is, this site was never meant to be a comprehensive rebuttal to following outdated religious rules. But, we'll answer this one by quoting a friend who is studying to be a minister:

    1) Paul is not God.

    2) When Paul is citing this list of sins he is doing it to make the point that the Church in Corinth is free of these sins, which were listed in the Torah, because of their faith in Jesus. Paul's letter to the Romans spells out in excruciating detail how the law no longer applies to Christians because they have died to sin and been risen in Jesus. In other words, these categories were good enough for our Hebrew forebears as they went, but as Jesus says to the tricky scribes, Moses gave those laws (specifically speaking of divorce) because the people's hearts were hard. Jesus clearly demands a higher mode of ethical conduct; in repeated instruction and parables he contrasts what people were taught with what he says. Therefore, Paul's personal feelings about what kind of people will inherit the kingdom of God, taken as a blanket condemnation of certain behaviors, is not only contrary to Paul's own teachings on the matter of justification, but deeply opposed to the spirit and teaching of Christ.

    3) What Paul is giving a list of, in both verses that you cite, are examples of depraved conduct, as he sees it. His point is that when people turn their backs on God, they are prone to act in all kinds of sick ways; his point is not to list things that Christians should mark in their notebooks as being the "newly revised Levitical code". Paul is saying, "You guys used to do all kinds of crazy stuff, but now that you have Jesus, you've got your act together." I would say that there is a big difference between lustful, furtive couplings and a committed, healthy relationship. The notion of a committed, healthy homosexual relationship was utterly foreign to early Jews and Christians, as was the notion of abolition, racial intermarriage, antiseptics, and all sorts of other things that we take for granted today.

    4) Jesus never mentions homosexuality in the Gospels, not once. If it was so important that we had to clamp down on it anywhere and everywhere it rears its terrible head, don't you think he would have at least, you know, brought it up? There is on the other hand, a specific condemnation of divorce in the Gospels, spoken by Jesus, and yet I don't hear Focus on the Family saying anything about divorce."

    ReplyDelete
  121. Anonymous12:31 AM

    A tribute to Natalie Portmans- Leon:The Professional

    johnny moo moo

    ReplyDelete
  122. Anonymous12:41 AM

    We can discuss this another time Worf.
    Good night!

    Johnny moo moo

    ReplyDelete
  123. Johnny Moo Moo said

    A tribute to Natalie Portmans- Leon:The Professional


    Waiter?? I'll have what moo moo's having.

    Oh, and check please?

    ReplyDelete
  124. All nations before him are as nothing; and they are counted to him less than nothing, and vanity...

    That bringeth the princes to nothing; he maketh the judges of the earth as vanity.

    ReplyDelete
  125. Hast thou not known? Hast thou not heard?

    That the everlasting God, the Lord, the Creator of the ends of the earth, fainteth not, neither is weary?

    ReplyDelete
  126. He giveth power to the faint; and to them that have no might he increaseth strength.

    Even the youths shall faint and be weary, and the young men shall utterly fall

    ReplyDelete
  127. But they that wait upon the Lord shall renew their strength; they shall mount up with wings as eagles;

    They shall run, and not be weary; and they shall walk, and not faint.

    ReplyDelete
  128. Hey Rene, I would like to read The Sylvia Plan also, as I would really like to learn more about how Stalin came to power. On Saturday I searched WorldCat for any books written by Lydia and didnt come up with any, that could mean one of several things, 1) the book hasnt been published yet. 2) the book has been published fairly recently and hasnt been picked up by WorldCat or 3) the book has been out for a while and WorldCat hasnt picked it up yet for whatever reason. I think today i'll double check and do a title search, and possibly try Barnes and Noble and Amazon as well some time this week.

    Again you raise some very interesting and valid points, the concepts you mention about kosher food and homosexuality were ahead of their time in their day and were designed to protect people, but I think the average person didnt understand the reasons for them and just continue to blindly follow the letter of these laws rather than the spirit.As you say, Shell fish was not eaten because people would get sick, while today it is safe to eat shellfish. another thing that comes to mind is that people would not work or go out on the sabbath, (I believe the amish still practice this) because most people worked hard manual labor or factory jobs and relied on horses for transportation and didnt want to get all dirty or sweated up working or saddling and riding the horse or horse and buggy on the sabbath.

    ReplyDelete
  129. Talk no more so exceeding proudly; let not arrogancy come out of your mouth:

    for the Lord is a God of knowledge, and by him actions are weighed.

    ReplyDelete
  130. Mike and Rene -- Sylvia Plan is being released right after my new book Falling UP. The movie rights were pre-sold. Sylvia Plan was an 800 page book, and they made me cut it to 500 pages - it took me a long time, so it went on the back burner until I could finish the other book. I will keep you posted on the release dates. Thanks for your support and wise insights in your retort to FF about the Constitution and Liberals vs. conservatives. You both have amazing things to say.

    Johnny Moo Moo - I have not moved or deleted anything on this blog. Something happened to my mail and it's not receiving the blog posts properly. Will have it checked out. Wonder if I should suspect the NSA or Coulter herself? LOL
    xo

    ReplyDelete
  131. RENE -- EXCELLENT POST!! This is what I've been saying, I can't figure out why they aren't protesting at every courthouse when a couple gets divorced:

    Jesus never mentions homosexuality in the Gospels, not once. If it was so important that we had to clamp down on it anywhere and everywhere it rears its terrible head, don't you think he would have at least, you know, brought it up? There is on the other hand, a specific condemnation of divorce in the Gospels, spoken by Jesus, and yet I don't hear Focus on the Family saying anything about divorce."

    ReplyDelete
  132. Lydia SAID

    "There is on the other hand, a specific condemnation of divorce in the Gospels, spoken by Jesus, and yet I don't hear Focus on the Family saying anything about divorce"


    An excellent point that is seldom made.

    The divorce rate in the United States is over ridiculous. Surprisingly, it has declined over the last decade, dropping from a ridiculous 47 percent, (meaning basically you had a 50/50 shot of staying married) to a still whopping 37 percent, meaning you have just better than a 50 50 shot of staying married.

    It will be interesting to compare the divorce rate of homosexual to heterosexual marriges once they've been legal for that long.

    Maybe you married folks can learn something from them. Guess well have to wait and see.

    That is assuming the religious loons in this country don't get decide for everyone else who can enjoy the benifits of marriage and who can't.

    ReplyDelete
  133. James W8:38 PM

    Why do republicans like George Bush? I really want to know.

    On C-Span, when republican callers call in, they say these great things about George Bush, what a great man he is, what a "man of faith, and a Christian" he is. They seem to adore him, he can do no wrong.

    I once heard someone say they'd like to hang out with him at a BBQ, but is that enough credentials to be president of the free world?

    ReplyDelete
  134. Anonymous9:29 PM

    James brings up a great point.......It seems the Right wingers identify with Bush because he wears his religion on his sleeve...it doesn't matter whether or not he is competent....he's christian and that's all that matters. I often ask friends that if they go to the ER at 3 AM having a heart attack---will they ask for a christian doctor or a competent doctor......I'm not condoning what Clinton did, but I'd rather have the world renowned heart surgeon who's sleeping with his nurse than the christian who can't cut straight.

    KAN12

    ReplyDelete
  135. James, i was thinking the same exact thing yesterday, I just cant understand what they see In Bush, or where the blind loyalty comes from

    ReplyDelete
  136. James and KAN12 are right on the money.

    Talking the talk ain't walking the walk.

    And Bush does talk the talk, but I have never seen him walk a straight line.

    Well, cept for that one time in Kennebunkport back in 76.

    ReplyDelete
  137. Freedom Fan said "My point is simply this: If you want to change society, then do it the right way. Put your ideas in
    the arena of public opinion with competing ideas and let the best ones win democratically. It is
    very difficult to challenge any law which has been legitimately passed by the majority of the
    people in a free society; the moral weight of popular opinion is massive. If you want to change the
    Constitution, there are procedures for amending it. Don’’t Democrats believe in democracy too?
    If you allow arrogant justices to do whatever they please, despite the will of the people, we no
    longer live in a proud and free democratic nation; then we then live in a monarchy where judges
    reign."
    9:43 AM

    You seem to have a problem with as you say "arogant justices doing whatever they please despite the will of the people", you even refer to this as a "monarchy where judges reign". What about an arogant president doing whatever he pleases despite strong oposition in our own country as well as throughout the world. I see it more as a deceptive dictatorship where megalomaniacs reign.Why is it ok if the executive branch does this

    In closing I would just like to add that you seem to blindly support this administration regardless of what they do, you state in a prior post that:

    Freedom Fan said "Liberals believe the U.S. Constitution is a ““living breathing”” document which means whatever
    they want it to mean, regardless of original intent. Attempting to change the Constitution without
    due process is an ominous threat to liberty and represents a fundamental violation of the
    Constitution itself."

    It seems our president is the one who thinks the constitution is a living breathing document which means whatever he wants it to mean, and his attempting to circumvent it or change it without due process is indeed an ominous threat.

    So that being said I have to ask,if the tables were reversed, if say the Clinton Administration were still in the Whitehouse doing the EXACT same things as the Bush Administration, would you be blindly supportive of everthing they did as well????

    I think I know the answer. I can remember when the conservatives were complaining during Clinton's presidency that democrats were to weak to ever take military action, that we needed a Republican, then when Clinton finally did take military action thay said it was only to deflect the heat off of the Monica Lewinski scandal.

    ReplyDelete
  138. Hey Freedom Fan, how about hooking me up with one of those cool Lord of The Rings pictures????

    ReplyDelete
  139. His mouth is full of cursing and deceit and fraud: under his tongue is mischief and vanity

    ReplyDelete
  140. He sitteth in the lurking places of the villages

    ReplyDelete
  141. In the secret places doth he murder the innocent, his eyes are privily set against the poor

    He lieth in wait secretly as a lion in his den

    ReplyDelete

  142. He lieth in wait to catch the poor

    He doth catch the poor when he draweth him into his net

    ReplyDelete
  143. He croucheth, and humbleth himself

    That the poor may fall by his strong ones

    ReplyDelete
  144. Hi Lydia:

    Thanks for writing Mike and me and letting us know about your books. We're eagerly waiting for them. :D

    God Bless you and your family.
    I hope you all have a great day.

    Sincerely,
    Rene

    ReplyDelete
  145. The proud have digged pits for me

    ReplyDelete
  146. Let them be taken in the devices that they have imagined

    ReplyDelete
  147. Mike,

    Please refrain from biting my ankles; don't make me come over there--it won't be pretty. And how does a woman get the name "Mike"; do you have a husband named "Sue"? Hmm...perhaps you live in the Berzerkeley area. How many pairs of Birkenstocks do you own? What's your favorite flavor of tofu?

    ReplyDelete
  148. His ways are always grievous

    ReplyDelete
  149. Rene,

    I would lose the cat if you hope to ever get a date. Seriously. And stop attending those Star Trek conventions.

    ReplyDelete
  150. Behold, I am against thee, O thou most proud, saith the Lord God of hosts

    ReplyDelete
  151. For thy day is come, the time that I will visit thee

    ReplyDelete
  152. If divorces weren't allowed unless infidelity or abuse played a roll...I wonder how many people would stay single, and how many more couples would actually stay together and go to marriage counseling for any other problems.

    Here's my bible quotes for today:

    Matthew 5:32 "Divorce"
    "32 But I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for marital unfaithfulness, causes her to become an adulteress, and anyone who marries the divorced woman commits adultery."

    Yeah, the above is in red so Jesus said it.

    I'm not judging - just quoting. God knows I haven't married anyone yet, and only He knows who the right girl for me will be. I've yet to meet her. :)

    Here's an interesting scripture from the Old Testament. I think Bush the right-winger needs to know this one:

    Dueteronomy 24:5
    "Misscellaneous Laws"
    "5 If a man has recently married, he must not be sent to war or have any other duty laid on him. For one year he is to be free to stay at home and bring happiness to the wife he has married."

    I wonder how many newly wed husbands or wives have been sent to war.

    ReplyDelete
  153. FF:

    I'll keep the cat as I'm not interested in dating you, and I don't go to Star Trek conventions. Sorry, you have me confused with someone else, I don't do conventions. I'm guessing it was really a remark to reference the rest of my picture... Yeah, that would be CHRISTmas lights in the background and a New Year's hat on my head. Thanks for noticing me. :D Being that you studied my picture so well, feel free to save it to your wallpaper. LOL.

    Have a nice day. ;0)

    Rene

    ReplyDelete
  154. I thought it was a Yammaka :D

    ReplyDelete
  155. Oh and FF, as for accusing Rene of going to Star Trek conventions?

    You're the only one here sporting a Gandalf The White Icon...

    ReplyDelete
  156. Anonymous1:27 AM

    So back to my question: George Bush had an affair, he did cocaine, he skipped out of Air Force training and lied to cover it up; he never admitted the truth about his drug days, he quit drinking but is now on all sorts of anti-depressants or anti-anxiety drugs.

    Why doesn't the mainstream media pounce on him the way they did Clinton. Some liberal media. Clinton was a Rhodes scholar, a diplomat, a brilliant man with a heart. So he had a character flaw. At least he didn't start World War 3. Bush has an "aw-shucks" dumb looking innocence about him so no one ever can get too mad at him. A priest says Bush could be the AntiChrist, a wolf in sheep's clothing.

    ReplyDelete
  157. Hahaha Worf. A yammaka...that cracked me up. Thanks for the laugh. :D

    Rene

    ReplyDelete
  158. Anonymous4:41 AM

    Peace has brought me many pleasures, but nothing as powerful as that passion for survival in wartime, that faith in love, and that sense of absolutes. It often strikes me with horror that peace is really extremely monotonous. During the terrible moments of war one longs for peace with a passion that is painful to bear. But in peacetime one should never, even for an instant, long for war.

    Guy Sajer
    " Forgotten Soldier"

    Johnny moo moo

    ReplyDelete
  159. Freedom Fan it seems you missed the whole gist of my post and the points I was trying to make. I was not trying to take a shot at you or bite your ankles as you say. I was simply trying to illustrate that you put stereotypes and labels on people and then infer what YOU THINK THEIR BELIEFS are based on your preconceived labels regardless of what their true beliefs are, then when someone calls you on it or presents a point that you are unable to refute or is indefensible you turn to personal attack.

    you presented some good arguments and I was open minded enough to concede you were right on some of them, I had hoped you were open minded enough to do the same, I guess I was wrong. I actually was looking forward to your responses to my posts, I had thought that perhaps you were here for intelligent open minded debate and you genuinely wanted to learn how the other side actually thinks instead of just trying to stir things up and take shots at people like a malacious troll. I have to say i'm disapointed both in your narowminded responses and in the type of person you are. Lydia was right you are a BIGOT!!!!

    As for your questioning my manhood, or my sexual orientation (not that there's anything wrong with gay people),and not that I have to defend myself to you, but I am definately a man, and most definately into women, can you say the same, you sure seem to Like George Bush an aweful lot LOL!. My weekend consisted of watching the ultimate fighting championships, hardcore poker with the guys and dinner and a movie with a female, as well as getting the motorcycle ready for the dragstrip this spring, so just because my beliefs differ from yours does not make me a girly man.I think peace is always easier and preferable to war, war should be a last resort, but I have slain many dragons in my day and dont shrink from a fight when it comes to defending others who cant defend themselves or myself.

    ReplyDelete
  160. Come on FF old Pal how bout hooking me up with that Gandalf The White Pic, you can always be Sauron, or would that be George Bush?

    ReplyDelete
  161. Yea, let em have the Gandalf the White icon.

    You can have one of my Slappy White icons.

    ReplyDelete
  162. Anonymous said;

    Why doesn't the mainstream media pounce on him the way they did Clinton

    Because Clinton wasn't a religious loon. They were'nt as scared of Clinton as they were of Bush.

    But don't fret anonymous. Carl Bernstein summed it up on Steve Colbert last night when Colbert asked him the same question. He asked why Bush gets away with this stuff. Bernsteins answer was (paraphrased)

    he hasn't got away with anything yet, just keep watching

    ReplyDelete
  163. Anonymous11:45 AM

    Worf, do you think the Media is afraid of him? or is it that the media is alligned with or controlled by him?

    Mike

    ReplyDelete
  164. I think they're afraid of him, and his Pratorian.

    I think just like people were afraid of being labled a communist by good ole Tail-Gunner Joe, I think so too the mainstream media is afraid of being branded un-patriotic or sympathetic to the enemy by the zealous right.

    ReplyDelete
  165. Goering: "Why, of course, the people don't want war. Why would some poor slob on a farm want to risk his life in a war when the best that he can get out of it is to come back to his farm in one piece?

    Naturally, the common people don't want war; neither in Russia nor in England nor in America, nor for that matter in Germany.

    That is understood.

    But, after all, it is the leaders of the country who determine the policy and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy or a fascist dictatorship or a Parliament or a Communist dictatorship."


    Gilbert: "There is one difference. In a democracy, the people have some say in the matter through their elected representatives, and in the United States only Congress can declare wars."

    Goering: "Oh, that is all well and good, but, voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders.

    That is easy.

    All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same way in any country."


    Herman Goering
    Nuremberg War Crimes Trials
    April 18, 1946

    ReplyDelete
  166. Anonymous5:09 PM

    Freedom Fan has raised a good point about the cat thing.

    That chick I dated, who had her B.A. in psychology, had mentioned on several occasions that she couldnt wait for me to meet "TOM" - her pet cat :|

    I wanted to meet "TOM" like I wanted the Roadrunner to flatten me under a steamroller. Nevertheless, I was unable to avoid the enevitable and did meet "TOM". And while "TOM" proved to be a fine and agreeable individual, I was terrified that this girl was going to pull out an old video of "TOM" as a kitten playing with his first ball of string :|

    Calculated efforts on my part avoided this :]

    Johnny moo moo

    ReplyDelete
  167. Mike,

    I apologize for remembering, erroneously apparently, that you were a woman with two kids.

    Now how about you apologize for calling me a "bigot" otherwise you'd better have a some bona fide reason, you turkey.

    Worfeus, I get to be Gandalf if you get to be a giant green dragon living at home with his folks at the age of 30.

    ReplyDelete
  168. The only thing i'm sorry about Freedom Fan is that I mistakenly thought you were a worthy oponent and a fairly intelligent guy with different views, and I was making an effort to try to understand them.

    When in reality all you are is an arogant condecending bigot and a troll who spreads lies and misimformation and resorts to insults and personal attacks when some makes a point you cant refute or doesnt agree with you..

    You dont like the word bigot, tough, because if the shoe fits, its funny you didnt have a problem with any of the other things I said regarding you, so I guess I am to assume you dont dispute them and they are true. As for me i really have nothing more to say to you, your a lightweight, and I allready put you in your place and exposed you as a hypocrite and spreader of lies and misinformation.

    I wont waste any more time responding to your negativity,because time is too precious and I would rather spend it talking to people I like and respect. So I suggest that you slither back under your rock or bridge or whatever it is. All you've done here is basically insult people. So I have to ask the question,WHAT ARE YOU DOING HERE, what possible reason could you have for spending your time hurling insults at people it is obvious you dont respect? the only answer I couild come up with is you are just a troll with nothing better to do and nothing positive going on in your life.

    ReplyDelete
  169. Worfeus, I think your right about the press being afraid of him, the only thing about that is if they're afraid of him now wait till later, they have to take a stand against whats going on early and while they can before its to late.

    like you said we aint seen nothing yet. your right the rhetoric that "we are under attack" and giving them a cause to rally behind and an enemy to hate as well as discrediting or labeling the oposition as unpatriotic are all clasic power grab tactics that have been seen time and time again in history and literature.

    excuse me if i'm butchering them but to paraphrase two fantastic quotes

    Those who fail to remember history are doomed to repeat it

    All evil needs to prosper is for good men to do nothing

    ReplyDelete
  170. How come you deleted your reply to that clown Worf?

    ReplyDelete
  171. Because on second thought I decided such a juvinile insult did not merit a response.

    Let him think what he wants.

    ReplyDelete
  172. your right, I wont waste my time on him either

    ReplyDelete
  173. When he has a reasonable point to make, WORFEUS is all ears.

    ReplyDelete
  174. Rene and Worfeus, I think you guys made a good point about the high divorce rates, I think people should take marriage a little more seriously and not get married until they are sure they are with the right person and the time is right.Many rush into marriage because they dont want to be alone or they think its the thing to do.

    Also its much easier to just walk away today than in the past, as Worfeus said almost half of all marriages end in divorce and there is no stigma attached to divorce nowadays. Another thing is in the past there werent that many women in the workforce and many women didnt have the earning power to support themselves if they left, so they worked through the problems. Today with the playing field more level it is much easier for many people to just walk away rather than working to save the marriage.

    ReplyDelete
  175. Mike,

    You call me a bigot but cannot say why and you refuse to apologize. This is exactly what liberals do to Conservatives all the time as they pose piously. I was teasing and you lash out in typical fashion. You sir are the one with no honor.

    ReplyDelete
  176. Anonymous9:34 AM

    "Freedom fan" and "Mike"

    Do the two of you not realize that you are in love? Now stop all this bickering and name calling.....sorry I was channeling Kramer there for a minute.
    Seriously you 2...can we not make our points without calling each other Nazi's or unpatriotic? Those of us who consider ourselves moderates find that we have
    "clowns to the left of me, jokers to the right" because of all your rhetoric.

    Now I'm gonna turn around....and I want the 2 of you to kiss and make up!!!!!!

    Kan12

    ReplyDelete
  177. By SALAH NASRAWI, Associated Press Writer
    2 hours, 33 minutes ago



    MINA, Saudi Arabia - Thousands of Muslim pilgrims rushing to complete a symbolic stoning ritual during the hajj tripped over luggage Thursday, causing a crush in which at least 345 people were killed, the Interior Ministry said.

    The stampede occurred as tens of thousands of pilgrims headed toward al-Jamarat, a series of three pillars representing the devil that the faithful pelt with stones to purge themselves of sin.

    ReplyDelete
  178. Ahh, the joys of religion.

    ReplyDelete
  179. Anonymous11:34 AM

    I wonder what Pat Robertson will have to say about this tragedy........Go ahead Pat, open mouth and insert foot!!!!!

    KAN12

    ReplyDelete
  180. He'll probably say the devil made them do it.

    ReplyDelete
  181. By JIM ABRAMS, Associated Press Writer
    2 hours, 21 minutes ago


    WASHINGTON - House Democratic leader Nancy Pelosi on Thursday said Republicans had created "one of the most closed, corrupt congresses in history" and urged the House ethics committee to investigate GOP lawmakers linked to lobbyist Jack Abramoff.

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  182. Looks like the Shite is starting to hit the fan now. Stay tuned.

    ReplyDelete
  183. Republican pundit Chris Matthews dubbed Judge Alito today, Judge Incognito,

    ReplyDelete
  184. Anonymous2:34 PM

    Nancy Pelosi talking about ethics.....I bet she's taken a few free fact-finding trips in her time.
    The fact is that if the Dems were in the majority all this would be coming down on them. We have this notion in the US that Congress and the Senate are a bunch of crooks yet we keep electing the same people....somehow we think OUR congressman or senator isn't guilty. Well there's just too much evidence that they are all guilty of being corporate shills. And we can call for tem limits, but the next peope elected will end up being just the next in line at the trough if we don't do something about the BRIBES these people are taking......they can call it a donation from a lobbyist BUT ITS A BRIBE for God's sake.

    KAN12

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  185. Chris Matthews republican pundit?

    Get real worf, geez.
    The guy worked for Tip O'neal for gods sake! And he treated Michelle Malkin like dirt....

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  186. By ROBERT BURNS, AP Military Writer
    40 minutes ago


    WASHINGTON - The Army closed a criminal investigation of abuse allegations by an Iraqi detainee last year, finding no reason to believe his claims, even though no Americans involved in the case were questioned, according to Pentagon records made public Thursday.

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  187. BTW, WORFEUS agrees with both KAN12 and ERIC's last posts.

    I was just throwing out some talking points, since it's so quiet in here.

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  188. Anonymous4:22 PM

    Wow! 345 people dead because they wanted to throw stones at devils?

    Atheism does have its advantages. You dont empty your bank account for some preacher so he can install gold faucets in his home. And, you wont get crushed by a bunch of airheads while trying to sanitize your sins. I like my sins right where they are - inside me to work on in the safety of my home.

    Pretty grim Worf

    Johnny moo moo

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  189. Anonymous4:58 PM

    I wonder if they each get 70 something virgins in paradise for dying like that.

    KAN12

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  190. Yup buddy, pretty grim.

    I think I will start a church that believes in the brain that supposedly everyones God gave them when they got here.

    Our slogan will be think for Jesus.

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  191. The Church of the Grey Matter.

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  192. Yea KAN12, 70 virgins to slap them across the head and say "hey, what were you thinking?".

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  193. I probably should start that new braniac religion. Because God knows we don't need another religion that says hey, lets cram more then 2 MILLION people onto a single Bridge and tell them to throw rocks.

    And oh yea, tell em the devils there.

    There's a formula for success.

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  194. See, if they were members of the Church of the Grey Matter, they would have to stop and think about the 251 people who died there last year doing the exact same thing.

    It would be one of our by laws.

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