"It's easier to wear slippers than to carpet the whole world." - Stuart Smalley
A method Bush Inc used was "intent to deceive" by word association. An analysis revealed that on over 100 occasions Bush and Gang had used Saddam and 9-11 in the same sentence to convey an association. Bush did it in 8 sentences during one speech. How else could 70% come to believe there was an association? The same technique was used on Saddam-Osama.
- From Political Historian Clarence Swinney
______________________________
From Ron Kovic, paralyzed from the chest down by Vietnam War wounds, and confined to a wheelchair for almost 40 years: "As I now contemplate another January 20th I cannot help but think of the young men and women who have been wounded in the war in Iraq. They have been coming home now for almost three years, flooding Walter Reed, Bethesda, Brooke Army Medical Center and veterans hospitals all across the country. Paraplegics, amputees, burn victims, the blinded and maimed, shocked and stunned, brain-damaged and psychologically stressed, over 16,000 of them, a whole new generation of severely maimed is returning from Iraq, young men and women who were not even born when I came home wounded to the Bronx veterans hospital in 1968."
"I have come to believe that there is nothing in the lives of human beings more terrifying than war and nothing more important than for those of us who have experienced it to share its awful truth."
"We must break this cycle of violence and begin to move in a different direction; war is not the answer, violence is not the solution. A more peaceful world is possible." To read Ron's entire essay, go to: TRUTHDIG
_________________________
Yesterday I had the honor of hosting Robert Dreyfuss for lunch at my house. He's the author of the brilliant new book, DEVIL'S GAME: How the United States Helped Unleash Fundamentalist Islam (Holt/Metropolitan) This is a must-read, and answers all the questions about our Mid-East foreign policy stretching back 60 years, when America forged an alliance with the Islamic right in order to, among other things, combat Soviet atheistic communism. Dreyfuss is an investigative journalist who writes for Rolling Stone, The Nation, The American Prospect, Mother Jones and is a frequent contributor to NPR, MSNBC and CNBC. ROBERT DREYFUSS
__________________________
From this blog's feisty contributing commenter WORFEUS, who is not aligned with either party:
DON'T BE FOOLED: The increases Bush made in the VA are based on peace-time regular annual cost increases.
In peace-time we don't have many Post Traumatic Stress Disorder cases. And not too many Amputee's.
Right now the VA is dealing with some 16,000 GI's needing prosthetic limbs, seeing eye dogs, physical therapy, wheel chairs and reconstructive surgery.
We have another 30,000 + needing counseling, therapy, medication and hostpitalization for battle related stress and mental illness, family and medical counseling and so on.
------------------------
VA officials told Congress that the unexpected shortfall occurred because they had used an inaccurate, two-year-old financial model to calculate their spending requests. VA officials said the model underestimated the impact of the Afghanistan and Iraq wars and made other forecasting errors
VA Undersecretary Jonathan Perlin said budget forecasts are created two years in advance, meaning that the current year's predictions were made before the 2003 invasion of Iraq. - Kaiser Daily Health Policy Report, June 24, 2005
** What Bush did is take the lowest number he could get away with to tend for our nations veterans, based upon Peace Time Projections, then sent them to war, then cut that figure after he got elected by a Billion dollars to help pay for his war.
This is a prime example of Bushonomics. (WORFEUS)
Received this from my friend Doug Basham, whose amazing Progressive Talk-Radio show I did last month. DOUG BASHAM RADIO
Dear Lydia, Just wanted to share this with you. It hit me pretty hard last night. Back on Dec. 16, a little over a week after you appeared on my show, I had Specialist Douglas Barber as my guest, an Operation Iraqi Freedom veteran suffering from PTSD. He was telling us how the VA had abandoned Iraqi vets, and how he couldn't get help for his PTSD. Last night, at the top of my 3rd hour, I received this email...
Mr. Basham: I was a dear friend of Douglas; I say was, because Douglas committed suicide today on the front porch of his trailer around 2:30 pm Opelika, Alabama time. I was just listening to your interview with him so I could hear his voice again. Just thought you might like to know.
Here is a link to the interview itself:
http://www.dougbasham.com/12-16-05DouglasBarber.mp3
********************************
GORE "The President of the United States has been breaking the law repeatedly and persistently."
Click here to hear Gore's electrifying speech at BRAD BLOG (Or read highlights of the speech at end of blog below)
On the eve of the election of 2004, I sent this excerpt and wrote the following letter to a Republican Christian friend:
"Al-Qaeda came into Iraq after the American invasion," claimed Said. He added that, contrary to claims in Washington, the deposed Iraqi leader was probably the most reliable bulwark against Al-Qaeda infiltration into Iraq." - Mohammed al-Sayed Said, deputy director of the Ahram Center for Political and Strategic Studies and a former Washington correspondent for the Al-Ahram daily.
Dear Tristan (name changed)
For years I've done research on Islamic fundamentalism, Christianity and the Middle East. I am not implying that life under a madman was anything but terrifying, so please don't distort or spin my words, but do read TIME Magazine's article on "Iraq's Persecuted Christians" written by Iraqi Christian leader, Munir Mardirisosian. "The current violence in Iraq threatens one of the oldest Christian communities, dating back 2,000 years....Under Sadaam, Christians coexisted more or less amicably with the Muslim majority. Easter services were broadcast on state television, and Christians were allowed to own and operate liquor stores, beauty salons..."
Tristan, there is only one truth — but many distortions, manipulations and hidden agendas. I hate the way politics polarizes people; you seem to imply that people like myself (pro-environment, anti-guns/NRA, pro-peace) are not PATRIOTIC and madly in love with our country!! There are millions of faith-filled Democrats who support our troops but despise this illegal war — and it's corrupt how the extreme right-wing has smeared anyone against the war for lacking morals, faith or patriotism!
After much soul-searching and constant prayer for months, years — asking God to fill my heart with answers — without a doubt, the answer that keeps coming up over and over is that this war is wrong and our president is morally corrupt (as well as lazy, unconscious, severely misguided and resistant to truth.) There is something inherently wrong with the principles of current administration, their enablers and right-wing lawmakers. These are not true conservatives. The Republican party is hardly recognizable, though it used to be a party of balance. Please read Gore's speech below.
It says in the Bible, that we must go to God in private to hear God's voice, and follow God's leading in our heart. If you get out of your head and go to your heart, and take away all intellectual arguments as well as personal profit or money motives, you will know this administration is morally wrong. In fact, they are behaving the opposite of any real Christian.
No matter what, as a follower of the Prince of Peace, no Christian can say that bombing an entire country to remove one man (among other reasons) is the method Jesus would have used. His teachings were very clear. I sent you an article that tells how much we are hated in the world because of Bush, and therefore in MUCH more danger. You don't have children yet, but now I'm really scared about the increasing hatred Bush has brought upon us.
"All Arab and Muslim peoples are convinced that (US President George W.) Bush is persecuting Muslims and Arabs and is targeting only the Arab world," said Makram Mohammed Ahmed, editor-in-chief of the semi-official Al-Mussawar magazine.
And this, he said, "increases tensions and hatred. The whole Arab world hates America and the Bush administration." Said said he found it even more disturbing that "the Americans do not have any regret for what they did to the Iraqi people as a result of their mistakes."
And you never answered my question: how do you explain Christ's explicit instructions for dealing with our enemies? Why don't Bush "Christians" take Christ's words literally, fundamentally: Bless those who persecute you, resist NOT evil, return love for hate, love your enemies? Even if we can't always follow this, at least we should never be the invaders, torturers or aggressors. Defense is one thing, a preemptive strike based on a lie is another. As Robert Dreyfuss put it: "Bush is like a kid with his hand stuck in the candy jar; he wants the oil, and he won't let go until many more of our troops have died.
I used to be a Republican, but I finally had to check my motives. To be conservative is admirable, but to be fear-based and withholding (as in conservative with your charity), motivated by increasing your own profits at the expense of others, and interested only in self-preservation (as these "new-conservatives" are) -- rather than elevating mankind and helping others, this to me is primitive and shameful. God is love and should never be used to justify war, "moral righteousness, hatred or judgment of others. And the bible is still being written because we are still living our history. Why do people think it all ends, when it's still going on! Every spiritual thinker is writing the living Bible right now. Our battles are truly within ourselves. Love is the essence of everything.
I am dismayed that our president was actually proud of the fact that he didn't like to read or think deeply! (He later denied it, but he did actually bragged that he didn't read books or newspapers!) He’s proud of himself for never changing his mind, never enlightening himself, never reflecting.
All great men REFLECT, go within, read the great books, consult spiritual advisers with the big decisions -- and ponder the meaning of life. And a wise judge or leader always investigates, considers all sides, puts himself in another’s shoes. Remember Solomon?
I don’t want a Supreme Court justice that doesn’t change his or her mind in 20 years -- a quality Bush finds desirable! This would be just plain STUPID.
HIGHLIGHTS FROM GORE'S AMAZING SPEECH...
A president who breaks the law is a threat to the very structure of our government. Our Founding Fathers were adamant that they had established a government of laws and not men. Indeed, they recognized that the structure of government they had enshrined in our Constitution - our system of checks and balances - was designed with a central purpose of ensuring that it would govern through the rule of law.
...
The President and I agree on one thing. The threat from terrorism is all too real...Where we disagree is that we have to break the law or sacrifice our system of government to protect Americans from terrorism. In fact, doing so makes us weaker and more vulnerable.
...
In the 70's and 80's, the oversight hearings in which my colleagues and I participated held the feet of the Executive Branch to the fire - no matter which party was in power. Yet oversight is almost unknown in the Congress today.
...
It is the pitiful state of our legislative branch which primarily explains the failure of our vaunted checks and balances to prevent the dangerous overreach by our Executive Branch which now threatens a radical transformation of the American system.
URL: http://www.bradblog.com/archives/00002288.htm
LYDIA CORNELL: AFI Best Actress Nominee, People's Choice Award winner; Actor, Writer, Director, Producer; woman and children advocate; teen mentor, comedienne, talk show host, inspirational pubic speaker best known for her starring role on ABC's "Too Close for Comfort" as TV legend Ted Knight's daughter 'Sara'; HBO's Curb Your Enthusiasm, and over 250 shows, episodes and movies worldwide. Turns tragedy into comedy, life-saving issues for women and equal pay for equal work...
http://www.factcheck.org/article144.html
ReplyDeleteEric, what are you referring to when you send us to
ReplyDeleteFACT CHECK? Am I missing something?
This is a great site http://www.factcheck.org/article144.html
ReplyDeleteRead the "DEFAMING DELAY" article. Turns out Delay's own lawyer lied and also denied Abramoff was involved in Delay's dealings when no one even mentioned it (thereby implying Abramoff was involved, and also not directly denying the accusations were true.
The U.S. border issue is an interesting one, Worfeus. And I think there are reasons why there isn't a great deal of concern from the Bush administration. Namely, because they are not concerned about another significant domestic attack. Why? You'd have to ask them. I have my suspicions.
ReplyDeleteThe United States has a combined border and coastline of roughly 20,000 miles (about 7,500 miles of border with Canada and Mexico, and about 12,500 miles of coastline). TWENTY-THOUSAND MILES!! Just think about that number for a minute. Do you realize how utterly easy it is for someone - or many - with nefarious intent to sneak into the country? It's easy enough for simple Mexican immigrants who just want to come here for a better job and a better life. What about for those who are trained and skilled at evading detection? A piece of cake.
My point is that if the "lurking enemy" was so intent on destroying America and killing U.S. citizens, it would be as easy to do as shooting fish in a barrel. Yet, there has not been a single foreign-instigated terrorist attack in this country in almost 4.5 years. Are Bush and Cheney just doing such a magnificent job of protecting us? Yeah, right. We've seen how easy it has been for domestic terrorists to attack (DC shootings, Okla. City bombing, Eric Rudolph bombings, Unibomber, midwest bombs from a few years ago, etc.), yet the "lurking enemy" can't seem to get off a single shot.
Coincidence? I'll let you draw your own conclusions.
9/11/01 was a terrible day and an unmitigated disaster for this country. I lost a friend that day, a man with a wife and young son and - unbeknownst to him at the time - a daughter on the way. His wife and my wife worked for one of the airlines that was attacked that day. I yelled and cried - a lot - that day and for days afterward. I still hurt thinking about it. And I do think about it.
That said, there is virtually no question in my mind that the events of that day were NOT completely unknown to certain people with connections to the U.S. government. Not in an explicit fashion, per se, but enough to leave no question that a major catalyst of change was going to take place. And I'm not one to jump on the typical conspiracy du jour bandwagon. But this is a situation where the right people, intelligence, money and desire came together to ensure that a number of mutually necessary objectives could be accomplished via a single, cataclysmic event.
We're all up in arms about the illegal NSA spying, and we should be up in arms about it. But I think that's mere window dressing to the real scandal that is festering beneath the surface. No one really wants to talk about, but it's there, I believe. Time will tell if it can be uncovered.
Some of the best intelligence agencies are masters of deceipt and illusion; in fact, those are their most effective tools. And if the mind games are played just the right way, almost anything can be accomplished. There's a reason why we've had no more attacks, in spite of the ease with which they could be carried out in this country. Therein lie the answers to many of our collective questions.
Why doesn't anyone investigate the charges that the Bush administration immediately ushered out 38 members of Bin Laden's own family living in America, flew them right out of the country? This is documented and not made up. Michael Moore asked this question, and now he has been smeared so badly, no one dares bring up his name, but he really asked the hard questions.
ReplyDeleteAnd I love the part of Farenheight 911 when he asks the question about how many guards are guarding the Oregon border. At the time: ONE! LOL
Anybody wonder why Kerry lay down so quickly after the election? Seems pretty spooky to me, like he was told some inside information that none of us are supposed to know.
Kirk - this is terrible, I can't believe the death benefit is only $12,000! I don't understand how lawmakers can pass such huge salaries and lifetime pension benefits for themselves and not take care of the men and women who die for us!
ReplyDeleteThis has got to change. And you're right, I blame all lawmakers on both sides.
Drewl - you make some very staggering points, which I've suspected all along.
Worfeus mentioned Jesse Ventura talking about how strange it was that we didn't have any anti-aircraft or ABMs in the air to intercept our planes once we knew they were off track. Lots of unanswered questions.
Worfeus said "The stumbling bumbling strategy (slapstick like even), of the Bush administration in fighting this so called "War on Terror" is akin to stirring up a hornets nest in your back yard, while leaving your own homes doors and windows wide open."
ReplyDeleteWow!!!, thats a fantastic analogy Worfeus. you started this blog right, that is a powerful and vivid analogy and right on the money.
Kirk you make a great point about our national debt being $25,000 per person I think the administration sold the war to the young, the poor, the rednecks etc. with tough talk and vulgar language,they painted the voices of caution or opposition as weak or sissies and appealed to to people who are fearful and feel that we need our government to protect us, and the only way to do this is to get them before they get us. they dont care that this is only stirring up more hatred against us.I think many of the young, poor, rednecks etc.. would not be so supportive of the war or this administrations warmongering phony patriotic rhetoric if they knew that $25,000 was coming out of their pockets to pay for it. the dems did a poor job of getting this message out to the public, hopfully like worf said they will do better next time.
As for our military, Worfeus and Kirk you are absolutely right, I am appalled and disgusted at how poorly these guys are treated and how under appreciated they are, these guys are heros, they are spending time away from their families and risking their lives everyday, they should be making much more money, instead veterans get their benefits cut to fund a corrupt war and the people sending them there dont even value them enough to give them the proper equipment and tools to help them succeed and help keep them safe. I find it offensive and hippocritical that congress voted to give themselves a lifetime pension and cut our veterans benefits. I worked with many soldiers aiding Hurricaine Katrina victims this past summer, these guys are heros, they are fantastic people and I cant say enough good things about them.
Drewl you raise some very thought provoking and contoversial points, i'm pretty sure I know what your alluding to and what you say makes sense, i'd really like to hear more about your theories.
Mike
Isn't it odd how the NRA supporters claim we all have the right to bear arms, in case of a government like this one coming to power. But the problem is, the guns are in the wrong hands.
ReplyDeleteVery sad story about Douglas Barber; I salute this one time moderate and soldier.
ReplyDeleteAs for Drewls comment - This is seriously, seriously heavy stuff. I would like to suggest that everyone proceed with extreme caution.
Johnny moo moo
"Anonymous said...
ReplyDeleteEric, what are you referring to when you send us to FACT CHECK? Am I missing something?
8:14 PM"
yeah, Worfeus lied....again
Kirk12 said...
ReplyDeleteNAAAAAAHHHHH!!! The fly in the ointment of all of this is the American People....."
Yeah! Those damned American People!
If only they had the brains to realize that you guys are smarter than they are and know whats best for them.
If only this were a liberal dictatorship....
And Jack Murtha....LOL
ReplyDeleteI bet he sure was proud to get the code pinko award. Dems just LOVE praise from communist organizations...
Since we all STILL seem to be misguided about Bush's VA funding "cut" and to lazy to copy and paste a link....
ReplyDelete"In Bush’s first three years funding for the Veterans Administration increased 27%. And if Bush's 2005 budget is approved, funding for his full four-year term will amount to an increase of 37.6%.
In the eight years of the Clinton administration the increase was 31.7%
Those figures include mandatory spending for such things as payments to veterans for service-connected disabilities, over which Congress and presidents have little control. But Bush has increased the discretionary portion of veterans funding even more than the mandatory portion has increased. Discretionary funding under Bush is up 30.2%."
http://www.factcheck.org/article144.html
please, don't let FACTS get in your way.
And for "anonymous" at 10:28pm, and of course Worfeus and that bastion*-sp? of truth Michael Moore....
ReplyDeletehttp://www.factcheck.org/article294.html
The New York Times and Huffington Post? -yeah. THEY don't have an axe to grind....
ReplyDeleteWorf I just saw what you're talking about. Oh my God, is this for real, the Blogs for Bush Bet on Iraq ad?
ReplyDeleteIf so, this is truly horrible.
Worf
ReplyDeleteDrewls comment is almost inconceivable to me, therefore, I would not want anyone, during the heat of debate, to make some kind of rash conclusion without outstanding supporting evidence and facts.
One should be careful what they write. Speculation only!
Im staying out of this one; it almost sounds apocalyptic.
Think Im gonna go buy a Chia Pet and chill.
Johnny moo moo
I know......Im just responding to your 11:50 PM post.
ReplyDeleteI like your new cartoon......it reminds me of my ex-wife and myself.
And yes I do have to catch up on some of the reading.
Johnny moo moo
"Yea, that's a brilliant respone that most of you lame brains turn to when you're rump is firmly wedged in your mouth."
ReplyDeleteWorf, YOUR WORDS:
"But what is more appalling is that president Bush cut the VA's budget by 1 BILLION DOLLARS, shortly after getting re-elected to help pay for his war."
You like to play semantics so much?
Lets keep it to just the VA and a "1 BILLION DOLLAR" cut.
So whose rump is lodged where?
Kirk,
ReplyDelete"That still would leave the possibility that Cheney could profit from his Halliburton stock options if the company's stock rises in value. However, Cheney and his wife Lynne have assigned any future profits from their stock options in Halliburton and several other companies to charity. And we're not just taking the Cheney's word for this -- we asked for a copy of the legal agreement they signed, which we post here publicly for the first time.
The "Gift Trust Agreement" the Cheney's signed two days before he took office turns over power of attorney to a trust administrator to sell the options at some future time and to give the after-tax profits to three charities. The agreement specifies that 40% will go to the University of Wyoming (Cheney's home state), 40% will go to George Washington University's medical faculty to be used for tax-exempt charitable purposes, and 20% will go to Capital Partners for Education , a charity that provides financial aid for low-income students in Washington, DC to attend private and religious schools.
The agreement states that it is "irrevocable and may not be terminated, waived or amended," so the Cheney's can't take back their options later."
http://www.factcheck.org/article261.html
Try again....
Worf,
ReplyDeleteOnly in Washington is a reduction in PROJECTED spending called a "cut".
And while it may be woefully inadequate, the funding for the VA IS rising at about 5 billion a year since
Bush took office. (about 70 billion for 2006)
And here's the tale of one veteran who's happy about the way it's going:
http://www.barking-moonbat.com/index.php/weblog/category/Economics/P48/
Might just be what George had in mind....
As far as the "Blogs for Bush" thing goes, I've never heard of them before tonight.
ReplyDeleteWhile I agree the slogan leaves much to be desired, investors pumping money into Iraqs economy can do a lot to rebuild and stabilize their country.
And what a great way to show our support. It would also create some jobs for the people and probably lessen the growth of insurgents.
A nice way of saying "we believe in you" here's our money. (and it's not charity either, so no bruised egos)
...well except for democrats of course.
Maybe the slogan SHOULD have been:
ReplyDelete"Put YOUR money where THEIR mouth is"
I did see a report recently that their stock exchange is growing pretty rapidly. I may have to invest.
(seeing as how we're not taking any of their oil in this war for oil...)
BTW, since we can't drill in ANWAR, how many MPG could we get out of (what was it, 23?) caribou?
Worf,
ReplyDeleteI guess we can forgive the lie since you live in Washington.
Ya know, the other day I told my boss I needed a $1 an hour raise and then he had the nerve to CUT my salary by only giving me 75 cents...sheesh now what am I gonna do?
Gee worf, if I cared at all what you think of me I'd probably be offended.
ReplyDeleteOh well, yawn.....g'night.
Kirk, you didnt do too bad with those 1000 shares of Haliburton, i've thought of pulling the trigger on Haliburton myself several times over the last 6 years,although I knew oil service companies are fantastic holdings in an oil bull market, the stench of Chenney was just too much for me, and I couldnt pull the trigger, thats not to say I dont own other oil and natural gas stocks though. same goes for the cigarette makers I love high dividend stocks, but I just couldnt be a part of a company that is all about killing people and causing cancer, theres too many other opportunities to make a buck without compromising my principles. you did nicely though, in fact I think Haliburton still has room to run.
ReplyDeleteWorf at this point I dont think Eric is a troll, (I am absolutely positive that FF is a troll though) although I am curious why he chooses to spend his time on a site that clearly leans to the left. It seems pretty obvious that he is not trying to understand how the left thinks and is not into open minded debate, and he is not going to convince anyone here that his views are correct. so I wonder why he chooses to spend his time here with people he doesnt agree with or respect instead of spending it on a right wing blog.
Eric, I have to ask you, from I sit it appears you are blindly loyal to the Bush administration and the war in IRAQ, so I have to ask if a democratic administration were in the whitehouse would you be as supportive and blindly loyal if they were doing the exact same things as the current administration?
Great example Worfeus, a perfect example of what self serving slime Bush is, using a lowball figure and waiting till AFTER he is elected to cut benefits. The arogance with the way the administration blatently puts the screws to the little guy, the poor and middle class and panders to the rich is sickening.
ReplyDeleteHe's willing to cut all kinds of programs and aid to our own country and citizens but not for HIS WAR. look who our new Federal Reserve Chairman is "Helicopter Ben Bernake" a man whos answer to fighting deflation is to fire up the printing presses and print more money then drop it from helicopters, he obviously meant it figuratively rather than literally. but its not much a stretch to envision them cranking up the presses to print more money and using Inflation (the silent and deceptive tax)to destroy the lower and middle classes and fund his war, because he doesnt have the integrity to take care of his own backyard first or be a man and take back the tax cuts to his rich buddies to pay for the mess he created.
Worfeus...don't you work? How do you find the time to keep up with all your blogging, and to pay your ISP bill?
ReplyDeleteIMHO, the reason this whole country is gone in the shitter is that those of us who are productive, and could actually effect real change, are too busy working two jobs just to pay our taxes while the rest of you just blather on incessantly trying to save the whales.
And Lydia, Christianity is a huge turn off, regardless of the brilliant idea one uses it to support. Whatever it is you're trying to say is totally lost behind the nonsensical Christian rhetoric you espouse.
I don't know why I waste my time coming here [sigh]
Prophet -- so you're saying love is a huge turn-off?
ReplyDeleteAnother good way to spot trolls:
ReplyDeleteEven after they KNOW someone has left the board for the night they post longwinded BS posts about how the other guy won't respond.....
I'll respond this evening after work,
I'm only home for lunch right now and don't have the time.
BTW,
ReplyDeleteThe argument WASN'T about wether Bush cares for the troops or not, it was about 1 BILLION DOLLARS cut from VA funding. And while I admitted the current budget is "woefully inadequate", you were the one who had his "pathetic argument" nailed to the wall....
Now I'm going back to work, so you can call me names again for not reponding further....
Better watch it Kirk, or FF Eric and prophet will start labeling you a liberal
ReplyDeleteMike
Good point Worf, same thing with me and FF who didnt respond to one thing I called him on because he couldnt then he started with the name calling and insults, while hippocritically claiming thats all the liberals do is not respond and answer with insults.
ReplyDeleteIn a post last night I also asked why these guys choose to come to a site that leans to the left if they dont like or respect anyone here, clearly dont share the same views and philosophies and obviously arent here for open minded debate and/or to learn how the other side thinks, although the jury is still out for some of these guys, the signs do point to troll.
Mike
Man you write fast Worf
ReplyDeleteMike
Because raising taxes to pay for these things and do them right goes against their ideologies and party rhetoric, they would prefer the deficit get bigger so there is no choice but to cut social programs, then for the things that are important to them like the war they will just print more money and use inflation (the silent deceptive tax) to destroy the poor and lower middle class without having to raise taxes on the wealthy. its been done countless times throughout history to pay for wars, and its sneaky, disgraceful and disgusting.
ReplyDeleteMike
Because thats not this administrations, style they are sneaky and they will turn to inflation so they can have their cake and eat it to. it takes a while for the increased money supply to really stoke the fires of inflation, look at the late 1970's which were a result of the Vietnam War and the Guns and butter philosophy. This guy doesnt want to raise taxes so his wealthy cronnies have to foot the bill for the war, so he will most likely use inflation to pay for it, we'll know for sure in the next 5-10 years. This time we can call it "guns and cake" since they want to have their cake and eat it too.
ReplyDeleteMike
Sorry Worf
ReplyDeleteAmongst other things, I have been attempting to finish (with great diffuculty) that Victor Frankl book Lydia recommended to me; its content is rather deep and requires my last reserves of brain power.
Excellent research......Im proud of you. I am astonished by your findings. And, I know, you know, that I am enormously unimpressed with BetonIraq.com; its essence seems calculating and suggests that money & power are its ultimate focus.
What happened to the human factor that Eric pointed out so well in previous blogs?
As I have said before: "I would bust down my neighbors door if I heard them beating their children senselessly, however, I would not bust down their door to raid their fridge".
Johnny moo moo
P.S. The hankys are above the microwave, on the little shelf to the left, under the bible books ,that lay beside your most recent bills.
Eric
ReplyDeleteI would be proud to share the same foxhole as you while peeling the turbans off of silly little terrorists at distances of 200 yards.
We both know that sending saddam a luvogram and some roses would not prevent him from putting humans into his shredder; head first if their lucky!
Additionally, we both know that sometimes evil should be stopped at its roots before it has time to grow. This does not necesarily mean war, but sometimes it does.
However, Lydia is correct when she says things were reasonably under control in Iraq before the invasion. And as the country does belong to its people, it is up to them to make change if they feel oppresed.
Therefore, a well planned rebellion, by the people, backed with U.S. support, was a realistic option that Worfeus and I believe should have been attempted first, possibly sparing American casulities and billions of dollars that could otherwise be allocated to more important social concerns.
I suggest that you may at least consider this.
Johnny moo moo
P.S. I believe Worf, Mike, Drewl, James, Kirk, would also visit our foxhole.
“Wow!!!, thats a fantastic analogy Worfeus. you started this blog right, that is a powerful and vivid analogy and right on the money.”
ReplyDeleteHey mike, can you hear the rest of us? Your nose is so far up worfeuseseses butt your in danger of falling in. how is the view there, btw? Enjoying the smell? I guess it aint that bad, the bs spews out of the other end.
And for another good laugh,
“WORFEUS runs two firms,is a property owner, and is quite comfortable with regards to the matter of his own temporal life.”
Sure, and I am a multimillionare playboy/business owner. Oh, and I am batman too. Worf runs two businesses between posting, like 100 times an hour. That must involve a lot of coffee.
popeye
Lydia
ReplyDeleteIt seems everyone has gone out for burgers or something?
I want season one and your comedy thing but do not want to use paypal; never used it before. Is there some way I can send you a cheque or give you my credit card number?
Johnny moo moo
Dont explain yourself Worf......I respect you no matter who you are or how rich.
ReplyDeleteJohnny moo moo
i never said you were rich. i said a lot of coffee was involved, and you might want to get a surgeon to remove mike from your nether regions.
ReplyDeletei pade atenshun in skule, but those darned commutes are a pain.
then again, as batman.....
popeye
Trolls are back, hey Popeye it would be nice if you at least had the courage to register your real name, its real easy to be brave and insult people while hiding behind a keyboard, but on second thought why bother to register when you have nothing worthwhile to add anyway.
ReplyDeleteAs for my post to Worfeus, sorry if it annoys you, but I have a great deal of respect for Worfeus, Lydia, Kirk etc.. we share similar beliefs values and views on life and I prefer to spend my limited leisure time engaging in activities I enjoy and with people who share similar values, that doesnt mean I am not open to other views and dont accept people that are different. That being said however I find in odd that there can be people whose lives are so pathetic that they have nothing better to do than seek out people they dont like or respect and post hateful remarks and insults.
Prophet said "And Lydia, Christianity is a huge turn off, regardless of the brilliant idea one uses it to support. Whatever it is you're trying to say is totally lost behind the nonsensical Christian rhetoric you espouse.
I don't know why I waste my time coming here [sigh]"
heres another example first of all if you dont like or share the same views as Lydia, Worfeus, myself etc.. THEN WHY ARE YOU HERE, i've asked this question about 5 or six times in the last few days and realize I am not going to get an answer, because no one is going to be honest and say "i'm just a pathetic troll with nothing positive going on in my life and nothing better to do" As far as nonsensical Christian Rhetoric, I think the Right Wing has cornered the market on that. Is being kind and accepting of others that hard to embrace (I guess for a miserable pathetic Troll with nothing positive going on in their life it is)
I just dont get it though i'm always willing to have an open minded debate with some one whether they share my beliefs, values and views on life or not as long as they are respectful and open minded as well. I am a big enough person to admit when I am wrong or when an opponent presents a sound argument, but I dont go out of my way to seek people who hold principals and values that are the opposite of my own. For example I would never go to a Right Wing Blog and I am curious as to why Conservatives would want to come here. It is obvious to me they dont come for open minded debate or out of a desire to see how the other side thinks, and they have to realize that they arent going to convert anyone here to their way of thinking, so the only conclusion I can draw is that they are here because they are trolls with bad intentions
Btw i'm just curious Popeye, are you and Freedon Fan and Prophet all the same person or are there actually 3 different people that are that pathetic that they have nothing better to do than be insulting trolls.
ReplyDeleteHow come just season 1 Johnny?
ReplyDeleteI almost bought it a week or two before Christmas, glad I didnt though, i'd rather buy it from Lydia.
can you say BIG BROTHER!!!!!
ReplyDeleteits kinda scary the stuff these clowns are doing, and like you said they just got started, we aint seen nothing yet
Kirk
ReplyDeleteI truly appreciate what your sayiny, however, please define more clearly - "make it happen as peacefully as possible". There is some substance to what your indicating .
Anything is better than a long drawn out war. Inciting is different from a well planned rebellion coming from the very people of Iraq without angering the mideast from our presence.
I may be wrong ,however , please elaborate on: " thats how it will end up".
Johnny moo moo
Mike
ReplyDeleteI bought season two before Lydia came out with her offers. She had nothing for sale regarding TCFC. Season one was sold out at my local video store.
Johnny moo moo
Kirk
ReplyDeleteCivil war it is - let them battle it out for a chrysalis, however, if extermination plays a role, then I suggest intervention for humane reasons.
Johnny moo moo
Life is war, war is life.
ReplyDeleteJohnny moo moo
Johnny, I seem to remember around the late 1990's there was a guy from the CIA I believe that said there were people in IRAQ who wanted to start a revolution and overthrow Saddam and wanted the USA's assistance and we just blew them off. its obvious to me that the AGENDA was not an internal revolution but a war where we had some control as to the outcome and rebuilding process, i've read books that have stated that Chenney, Wolfowitz, Rumsfeld etc.. have wanted to Create an Ally/install democracy in an oil rich Middle Eastern Country since the 1970's to break the back of OPEC, Saddam and 9/11 just gave them the excuse/justification to take action
ReplyDeleteThink back on all the reasons the Bush administration listed for the War, they change more than the direction of the wind, first it was weapons of mass destruction, then it was that phantom link to Al Queda than Chenney tried to sell us, that Saddam was a tyrant and oppressing his own people (which leads me to ask how come we dont overthrow any oppresive tyrants in poor African Countries or North Korea that dont have oil) Oh and dont forget Bush saying "he tried to kill my daddy" Now the justification is "well we went there on FAULTY INTELLIGENCE, but as long as we are there lets install democracy.
Johnny, I think i'm going to pull the trigger on those TCFC DVD's this weekend, I was sick over the holidays and sat home for the most part relaxing and watching marathons from my favorite 70's and 80's shows and I really enjoyed myself
ReplyDeleteThat could be him Worf, the guy seemed very credible and intelligent in my oppinion
ReplyDeleteMike
ReplyDeleteI can go no further than to say I appreciate your first paragragh and thanx.
Johnny moo moo
Mike
ReplyDeleteI am hopelessly lost in the eighties and I consider it an honor to meet you.
Remember the good ol days when people used to pick up their phones?
Johnny moo moo
Kirk, I am going to remember what you said about Iraq breaking up into 3 seperate countries, over the next several years. I think you very well may be right, only time will tell.
ReplyDeleteNow you remember my theory that the Conservatives will turn to inflation to fund the war with out having to raise taxes on the wealthy. that also will take many years to see if it comes true. I think we are in for a repeat of the 1970's Wars, trouble in the Middle East, inflation, high oil prices etc..
Worf, what is "See No evil" about?
ReplyDeleteis it about what happened in Iraq?
I think thats a book I want to read
Johnny, i enjoy chatting with you also, youre definately one of the good guys.
ReplyDeleteI enjoyed the 1980's also
Worf i have to cut the clowns a little slack here, sure they raise the threat level for a bump in ratings, and they also do it to help support their crooked war or to support their agenda for raping the constitution and stealing our civil liberties and personal freedoms, but I think they also do it to cover their butts in case they really think something is going down because after all Bush would lose his credibility as our hero, savior and big protector if something actually did happen and there was no kind of warning or raised threat level, plus I think they frequently raise the threat level around holidays or big events like the Superbowl.
ReplyDeleteHey Worf, did you see that Lydia added what you said about Bush's funding of the VA to her blog.
ReplyDeleteI agree with you that the justification for the so called war on terror benefits from the fear created by Bin Laden speaking out, but what did you mean by his vagueness? do you think those videos were made ahead of time and Bin Laden is either in captivity or dead?
Worf
ReplyDeleteHow do you feel about Kirks theory dividing Iraq? And what do you think about the long/short term possible effects of such a division?
Johnny moo moo
Exactly, that thought has crossed my mind for a few years allready. he does always say general vague things, kind of like they created several hundred tapes and when ever the time is right or a certain event is relevant to what is played on the tape it is released.
ReplyDeletemike,
ReplyDeletei was just running around internet land finding something to laugh at and your post came up. i thought i was pretty funny, everyones a critic. your post did not annoy, i found it funny as heck. you reminded me of that little dog that kept saying the bigger dog was so cool in those old looney tunes cartoons. i could not help myself.
otherwise, why register a handle? johnny hasnt, and i dont plan on staying as long as he has.
and um, no, i am not prophet or freedom fan. speeking of prophet, that is a pretty lame arguement he made. but not funny. so i left it alone.
originally i found lydia funny. "heaven is inside of us" but not "them." she says that alot. why buy her book if she is going to repeat that a million times. "God is love" and all that, but those guys over there really suck.
i find that funny too.
till next time. c-ya ladies.
popeye
mike,
ReplyDeleteone last thing. you should reconsider posting on a conservative site. one reason. if you are so sure of your position you have nothing to fear. but you could have some fun finding out how they tick. maybe we are not all bad.
just a thought.
popeye
Ah, a comedian, I think your material needs serious work, maybe you need to watch a few more loony tunes or eat some spinach Popeye
ReplyDeleteNever said all conservatives were bad, I always respected John Mcaine, Colin Powell, and Paul O'neil, and i'm open minded enough not to lump all conservatives in a bunch and assume I know how they feel and where they stand on issues without actually listening to what they say, but to come to a site knowing their views are the opposite of your own and start insulting people is indicative of a troll. and I have no desire to spend my time that way
ReplyDeletePopeye seems very smitten with Mike. Perhaps Popeye is a right winged hot chick trying to entice him into evil actions of the flesh? :D
ReplyDeleteJohnny moo moo
I've thought that for a few years allready, the tapes do seem manufactured, I just wondered who made them, Al Queda or the Bush Administration?
ReplyDeleteI didnt know there were any Right Wing hot chicks johnny,
ReplyDeleteand your right at this point I dont think Eric is a troll, I just think he is blindly loyal to the Right Wing. I got to admit I was looking forward to erics retort to you, and disapointed it never came. He had a tought position to defend though, although he did use facts, how do you argue with what you said, Bush calls him self a War Time president, then he should act like it, and recognize that our soldiers and vets deserve better. funding the war includes caring and providing for the soldiers not just giving them ammo. using outdated peacetime stats to chintz them is a disgrace
As for the others definately trolls and ignoring them is the best thing, although I do like his only joking comment, next time one of those guys cry that all we do is insult them without backing up our facts i'm gonna say "I was only joking"
yeah, you call them on something they cant back up, they go right to the insults, then hide behind the lame "i'm only joking"
ReplyDeletethis blog has really picked up steam the last week, how long has the blog been going, as long as the archives list or longer?
ReplyDeleteso your saying maybe his comedy wasnt as bad as I thought
ReplyDeleteWow, I figured you were one of the originals around here, that kind of surprised me
ReplyDeleteToodaloo Worfeus, Mike, Kirk, and Popeye. Its way past my bedtime and im ready to faint again.
ReplyDeletejohnny moo moo
I think its my bedtime also, seeya
ReplyDeletePopeye, it seems, is Ann Coulter herself. NO Popeye, my book is not going to say God is love, over and over. You are in for a big surprise.
ReplyDeleteOh - and please read my updated post on Ron Kovic.
ReplyDeletewhy are you guys obsessed with calling me by someone elses name? that is pretty strange. no, not ann coulter either, or hoffa, or elvis.
ReplyDeleteglad you like some of my material worf. actually i got it from red vs blue. sarge says that every once in a while.
popeye
as to why i came, i felt like playing in your sandbox for a bit. hey, freedom of speech is great! it aint just for ward churchill anymore.
ReplyDeletepopeye
I was just reading the top of the blog on how the Bush Administration uses word association to deceive people and infer a conection between Iraq and Al Queda or Saddam and Bin Laden, i've noticed this for years and it disgusts me, but what disgusts me even more is that over 70% of our nation buys the garbage these guys are selling, what a bunch of sheep.
ReplyDeleteIt brings me back to what you said last night Worfeus about the apparently manufactured Bin Laden tapes that surface every so often, I don't think it would be that big of a stretch for the Bush Administration to be behind the tapes,after all they are a bunch of liars and deceivers, but i'm curious to hear what others think, so:
Do you think the Bin Laden tapes are
1) the real deal and Bin Laden is still alive
2) manufactured by the Bush Administration
3) Manufactured by Al Queda
I think Eric didnt respond to the post because Worfeus closed the door when he admitted that although the budget did actually go up from the previous year, it was based on a flawed study conducted during peace time and then cut from there, what can you really say to that. I think Eric assumed Worfeus was basing his argument that the budget was cut, meant that Worfeus was saying the budget was less than the previous year and when he clarified this there really wasnt much to say. Eric did admit the budget was inadaquate, but he grew silent when the the Bushinomic deception and rhetoric had the light of truth shined on it. that relates back to what Lydia said at the top of the blog how these guys use word games and semantics to deceive people, sure Bush can claim the budget was actually increased from the previous year, but anyone who digs a little deeper and doesnt take what he says at face value would see that basing funding on a flawed 2 year old peace time study during a war and then having the audacity to cut it even further from there is not only disrespectful to our military and veterans, its insulting to the American publics intelligence as well.
ReplyDeleteI think your right, that was Bob Baer I saw on tv, I rember hearing that quote he made about Clinton somewhere. I'm going read his book soon
ReplyDeletethats a good point, we are getting filtered information in all likelihood
ReplyDeleteI want to read "Devils Game" as well as "See No Evil"
ReplyDeleteThats why its so hard to discern what is really going on and if he is alive. theoretically even if he is dead, having him appear to be alive could be of benefit to a wide variety of entities.
ReplyDeleteKirk 12 wrote: It seems we forget very quickly in the US.....I remember right before 9/11, Newsweek had just done part 1 of a 2 part feature on how Bush basically stole FLA in 2000.......I'm not sure either way if he did...maybe it's true that the parties are now even for the 1960 election Illinois shenanigans.....but it's interesting that part 2 was never printed.....9/11 happened that week. Maybe it's all coincidence...either way the administration is EITHER evil or incompetent.......
ReplyDeleteWhich is it, evil or incompetent? Is there really a vast right-wing conspiracy?
Kirk
ReplyDeleteTheres something that bothers me about installing new fences inside Iraq - although this is probably whats best.
Guess I feel lucky being Canadian where so many different cultures can live together in general harmony, without fences.
I honestly dont know. I really dont claim to have an answer that makes the trains run on time over there.... or anywhere for that matter. I am unable to offer an absolute on this ant farm we call earth.
Tito had his version, as did Stalin, Hitler, etc.. Can any one individual or group decisively say they have an answer that conforms to all?
Johnny moo moo
P.S. I can't see Lydia running around to all these different factions in Iraq saying: " C'mon everybody, just love each other", and it actually working.
Kirk
ReplyDeleteI do know one thing......I really miss President Clinton. BTW, wasnt he the president after Bush :)
Johnny moo moo
Independent ticket.....hmmmm... wonder who would allow me to enjoy my passion for target shooting without under going a humiliating psychiatric evaluation?
ReplyDeleteJohnny moo moo
Under Canadian law, one of the questions on the application to purchase a firearm is " Have you recently been divorced or seperated".
ReplyDeleteAdditionally, they ask your ex-wife if they believe the ex-husband should be entitled to a F.A.C.
My nefarious ex would answer this untruthfully as a form of revenge for my winning sole custody.
On the contrary, it should be I concerned about her.
Johnny moo moo
I swear it Worf. How blue in the face do I have to turn to convince people that I really only want to purchase a firearm to take my offspring target shooting at cans or eggs?
ReplyDeleteJohnny moo moo
The application must also be signred by a priest or something.
ReplyDeleteJohnny moo moo
Curiously, however, I have met many Americans who speak of much violence and love our ant-gun laws.
ReplyDeleteJohnny moo moo
Hello all.
ReplyDeleteIt seems I picked the right day to see what was going on.
Johnny, I do not know what you have to do in Canada to buy a gun. Down here, if one has a concealed carry permit they can simply walk in and buy one. The background checks have already been done, so there is no need to wait. Pretty neat. Otherwise you may have to wait depending on the state.
Worf, I like your analogy, but there are more reasons to own one. Collecting for instance. I have a few WW2 pieces that rarely ever get used. They are simply preserved as part of history. Otherwise, you are right. They are used to kill. In my opinion, if you are in a situation where it is either you or them, I would rather it be the bad guy.
Having looked down the business end of a gun more than once I can tell you there is nothing in this world that makes a man feel more helpless than knowing there is nothing you can do to save yourself, and the 20 people around can not help either all because you obeyed the law and did not carry. I am able to type here today because one of those guys forgot to chamber his weapon before use. Lucky for me, not good for him. Since there are ladies present I will not tell you what I did to that guy. But he did live to tell about it, after they unwired his jaw.
Big K, so glad you're back, we really missed you.
ReplyDeleteSorry I can not play much. School season is on.
ReplyDeleteUnless someone can help me calculate the stress and strain in two .030 inch wires holding up a lamp of 18 lbs. That problem should not be this hard. There is not even any calculus involved. But I keep getting it wrong. Very infuriating.
Anyway. Also, if anyone is interested, part of the reason my wife was feeling like hell warmed over the last few weeks is she is expecting our first child. We just found out last week.
Very nasty Worf. Using one of my old favourite shows against me :D
ReplyDeleteIf I were to place a gun, bat, knife rope, or bow&arrow in Lydias hand, does this mean shes going to feel a sudden urge to destroy?
There are good people out there who use guns for purposes that are not evil.
I do, however, see your point. Guns have done more harm for humans than they have good. It just bugs me that criminals walk about freely with them, while good Joes like me cant enjoy a fun afternoon shooting at pumpkins.
I guess I do feel a little comfort knowing everyone on the street doesnt own one....Hmmmm... kinda suggests sometin about our human nature.
Johnny moo moo
I have only small arms. A Turkish Mauser, a Luger, and my personal favorite, a Thompson .45 pistol. Not the Tommy gun, but really cool. The Luger has a lot of blood pitting on it. Some German officer died holding that gun. Kind of gruesome, but it still fires perfectly. Unlike the French, they made things that worked. (Maginot line, heh)
ReplyDeleteMy father on the other hand has owned all of the guns you mentioned. He had for a number of years a type 7 Federal Firearms License. That means he could manufacture full auto guns. He could only sell them to other FFL holders and the government, but we were able to play with some fun stuff. He did some work with the Air National Guard Museum in Scottsdale, AZ for a long time.
One of his friends has a MG-08. Japanese WW2 nose gun from bomber. It fires over 1400 rounds per minute. Fastest recoiling weapon ever made. And fires 8mm no less.
I have fired real Tommy guns, AR-10’s (think M-16 but in .308 instead of .223) and a bunch of other stuff. A Maxim, WW1 water cooled and air cooled. Nicknamed the Devil’s Paintbrush. Lots of fun. I played with a Russian Draganov before they were ever imported into this country through the museum. Those are nice too. Yeah, I could go on. This is a subject I know a bit about.
Good story and point BIG K. Congrats on the bun in the oven :)
ReplyDeleteJohnny moo moo
Johnny, if I can find it the US Justice Department released a report in 2004 that said that more crimes are stopped with firearms than are committed with them. It is a lengthy read and quite dry, but informative. If I can find it I will post it. It also mentioned no link to crime rates dropping to the assault weapons ban that sunseted that year. I thought I saved it, but could not find it a few weeks ago.
ReplyDeleteKeep in mind also, guns are great at one thing. Making people equal. If someone Lydia’s size was attacked by someone like me (6’1”, 240 lbs, former bodybuilder, and has been known as a tough fighter if I may be so bold as to say) she would hold little chance without a gun. This was the problem before guns were invented. One trained soldier, such as a samurai could kill 50 farmers without being hurt. The problem of abuse was rampant in the old days. You will not find that so much now, because the cops will think twice before busting in your door for jaywalking if they think you may have a gun.
Wow, me and Worf almost agree. We need to write down the date and time.
ReplyDeleteCool Worf :)
ReplyDeleteJohnny moo moo
Big K
ReplyDeleteThis is shocking news to me . I would appreciate it if you could post this item.
Johnny moo moo
No Worf, I am in agreement with your 3:36 PM post. After your Kwai Chang Cain post I assumed you were completely against guns in any shape, form, or matter.
ReplyDeleteThus cool.
Johnny moo moo
Worf
ReplyDeleteI cant help but share your views, however, Canadian laws are just to strict.
Johnny moo moo
My only defense would be to slap someone over the head with a big slab of bacon.
ReplyDeleteJohnny moo moo
It does not discredit the deaths, it merely points out the millions of crimes like thwarted burglaries and personal attacks that do not go reported by the news. Most of which are done without a shot being fired. When I break from homework today I will look for it. It should not be hard to find, it was big news for a while running up to the end of the assault weapons ban in September of ’04.
ReplyDeleteWe agreed on the necessary evil part. We agreed on the history of the guns as presented. That is why I said that. We can also agree that there must be responsibility.
We will undoubtedly disagree with how it should be decided, however. I think since sex ed, drivers ed, and drug ed is presented in school so should this subject. Too many parents are inept at discussion of these topics. I think a public education solution could be very effective in reducing the accidents and the crimes. If people understood more about the realities of guns from trained people rather than from the aforementioned Rambo type movies the problem could be at least lessened. I also think that someone who inherits these things should not be a criminal. I also do not think registration of guns like cars are registered is practical. As stated before, my dad built guns. You would be surprised how easy it is. A picture in Time Magazine of a guy in Pakistan building his own rifle with a fire and a hammer comes to mind. It really is not hard.
And countries that have laws against guns have less gun violence. Fair enough. But many times, not less violence. Australia and the UK have recently shown that.
Thats it! Im moving to the states and live right beside Worfeus on the ranch where I can shoot tin cans without going under the microscope :O
ReplyDeleteI do agree education to our children may be of some positive value.
I have a perfectly clean record in every aspect of life ,but, our laws are just plain unbalanced.
Johnny moo moo
Alright, so as not to send you guys on wild goose chases, the report I was talking about only discusses assault weapons. It is a pdf file.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.ncjrs.org/pdffiles1/nij/grants/204431.pdf
However, the victim/ offender ratios are not discussed here. Give me a minute, this is bugging me so I am trying to find it now. And the report should come from the National Institute of Justice or someone similar or I will not post it. No NRA stuff if people can leave Sarah Brady out of this.
=)
Hey Worf,
ReplyDeleteDo you live in Washington as in DC or the state?
I thought it was DC, if that is the case Johnny would have to move closer to me. Arizona is not so picky.
The education thing came to me when I took a CCW class. They scare the heck out of you. You hear about all these people that did the right thing and still end up in jail because they used a gun to defend themselves. Or how much the "victims" family can sue you for shooting them even though they were raping your daughter. Nasty stuff. So, even though I can carry, I usually do not. Besides, it chaffes.
Yes BIG K, I am very interested in the victim/offender ratios. You offer me hope as I was always under the impression that guns do more harm than good.
ReplyDeleteJohnny moo moo
I said it could be lessoned. There is no way to get people to stop killing themselves, no matter how you arm or disarm them.
ReplyDeleteThe West was an interesting time. Too many men came out here with no women. The women who did were more often than not prostitutes. Many historians argue that it was the wives that came that really settled the west, not the lawmen. Too many drunk guys with nothing to do but play cards and go to brothels will not be a good control group for social experiment.
When I was a kid my friends thought guns were cool. They say the movies and TV shows and thought that was the truth. The good guys would get up after getting shot and all that. I am not saying we should have live fire drills in class. I am saying a cop coming in having a discussion of the realities of guns could be useful. To my knowledge, no one does that.
This is more like what I am talking about.
ReplyDelete\\http://www.cnsnews.com/ViewCulture.asp?Page=%5CCulture%5Carchive%5C200601%5CCUL20060119a.html
A pertinent excerpt.
Self-defense. According to the Bureau of Justice Statistics, NCVS data from 1987 to 1992 indicate that in each of those years, roughly 62,200 victims of violent crime (1% of all victims of such crimes) used guns to defend themselves. Another 20,000 persons each year used guns to protect property. Persons in the business of self-protection (police officers, armed security guards) may have been included in the survey. Another source of information on the use of firearms for self-defense is the "National Self Defense Survey" conducted by criminology professor Gary Kleck of Florida State University in the spring of 1993. Citing responses from 4,978 households, Dr. Kleck estimated that handguns have been used 2.1 million times per year for self-defense, and that all types of guns have been used approximately 2.5 million times a year for that purpose, during the 1988-1993 period.
This illustrates some of the confusion. Reported crimes are easy to see. We can go through records and count what is reported with no difficulty. It is the unreported crimes that make it hard to track. Hence one of the reports says that only 1% of victims used a gun to defend themselves, the other is 2.1 million people use them yearly for that purpose. Before Worfeus castigates me over that let me mention once again my personal experience. I was threatened with a gun 3 times in my life. Only once was the cops called, and not for the guy I beat up. I did not feel I needed to involve the cops if nothing happened to me. And I never had a description that would be useful in catching the guy. The one time I did call them anyway, I was right, they did not catch the guy. Many people, myself included, think why bother in that situation.
Part of the problem with these reports is they do not name the bloody things. It is just a “report” but the government does not seem to want to make it easy to look up. This appears to be a good source, but if I can find the report he cites I will post it.
I must do homework. But I will try to come back later.
I have heard similiar stories and, this is why I am shocked by BIG K's post. However, I cant help but think of "In Cold Blood" and how this family could have possibly saved itself if they possessed firearms.
ReplyDeleteJohnny moo moo
Worf,
ReplyDeleteDuring your study you should have also seen that household cleaners kill more family members than accidental shootings. Car accidents too. Again, we are never fully safe from our fellow man. We can only hedge our bets. I do so with a 9mm in my headboard. My child will learn to respect guns and not play with them unless I am there. And I intend to offer the opportunity often so curiosity is not a factor.
If you choose not to have one, it is your decision and people should respect that.
Thanx for the research BIG K, I have to read it again.
ReplyDeleteJohnny moo moo
Worf, in response to your earlier post I am actually not in the NRA. They are too tame, they play politics a lot and let things go because it is too hard. I hate that. The GOA is more my speed. But I have not given them any money, so not a member there either.
ReplyDeleteYou have the wrong impression of my gun ownership. I do not worship the tools of death. I understand they are tools for a particular job. It is a grim job, but one that is occasionally needed. I shoot for practice only a few times a year to keep my skills up. This is necessary if you choose to own a gun, as not being able to handle your weapon can be disastrous. Otherwise it stays where I put it.
As for my kid, I will not expect him or her to do what I ask. That is why I have to think ahead of them. If you take away the taboo and make it accessible they will not be curious. That is when people get hurt. Think about it. Very few kids grab the keys to the family minivan and joy ride at 10 years old. That is because they are more focused on other things, and they get in the van all the time. The guns in the house should be the same. I was never curious when I went to friends houses, and kept them from playing with guns when I was around. I hope to emulate that example.
The Columbine kids are again a bad example. Their parents paid little attention to them. The doors to their rooms were locked and the parents let that be. Not in my house. Those parents knew their kids had problems. That is why when the news of the shootings came out the first calls that both parents made were to their lawyers, not the school to see if they were ok like everyone else.
I do have one little problem with guns however .....a reasonable person may be tempted to use it in otherwise normal circumstances; while under a little stress and hot under the collar.
ReplyDeleteI dont think I could ever carry one with me full time.
Johnny moo moo
Your very bad Worfeus.....no Chia Pet for you next Christmas :D
ReplyDeleteJohnny moo moo
LOL :D
ReplyDeleteJohnny moo moo
Well, I have heard of a few decent citizens who deeply regretted using a gun while a little hot under the collar; they showed extreme remorse afterwards.
ReplyDeleteI think its safe to say everyone agrees with your 3:54 PM post.
Johnny moo moo
Worf
ReplyDeleteI swear something funny is going on with the posts. Is Lydia playing with us again? Or maybe Ann Coulter?
Johnny moo moo
Pretty good points by both sides on Gun Control, I dont really have much to add.
ReplyDeleteI have wanted to learn how to shoot for a while, and now that i'm a homeowner I had considered getting a gun,(probably never get around to it) but I would never carry one around with me, even though i'm not a hot head and could honestly say i'm sure I would never use it, trouble seems to find people who CARRY guns and you never know what can happen, its just not worth it.
That being said I think law abiding citizens should be able to own guns, the right to bear arms is in our constitution, and it makes sense, I dont think its right for just criminals, law enforcement and government to have guns, private citizens should have that right as well. I do feel there should be some type of regulation on who gan get one though
the posts do get screwy every once in a while Johnny
ReplyDeleteBUMMER....Worf mentions Battle of the Bulge right when I have to pick up my offspring from work.
ReplyDeleteBe back Soon
Johnny moo moo
Human judgment is pretty screwed up at times. I agree. People make look back on mistakes made that looked good at the time. That is why I stress education so much. Like I said, I have every right to carry. I have gone through the hoops, paid the money, proven I can handle my weapon to the authorities, and passed a written test to get that CCW. Now that I have it I rarely carry anyway. I do on occasion, but my job and my school frown on such things. It is a gray legal area in this state whether you can carry at work even if the employer says you can not. I do not feel like testing those waters.
ReplyDeleteYou are both right though, using a gun can put you in jail. People should know all the risks of them on both sides of the issue.
I too wish that people did not need guns. Unfortunately that is not the world we live in. I have gotten better at avoiding trouble, but many of the times I was assaulted I was not looking for it in the first place. It came to me. I also grew up in a crappy part of town. Lots of gangs and stuff.
I will say this one last thing here. I do not hope to use my guns. I have a collection, but the one I have for defense is the only loaded one. I hope it is never used. Everyone I know who owns one hopes they never have to use theirs either. Kind of like insurance. The vast, overwhelming majority of people who own guns have that philosophy.
Btw, Glocks are not my favorite. They feel too plastic. Kimber, Ruger, H and K, and Colt are more my speed. The Kimbers are especially nice, for anyone interested. But then again it better be for 2K per copy. My wife likes revolvers, I plan on buying her a Taurus Tracker. I know a lot of people like Glocks, I can not stand them.
Johnny going back to your 7:41AM post, I think you might have been looking at things from the wrong perspective.
ReplyDeleteFirst of all, although it would be great, and a best case scenario if peace came to iraq and all the separate factions made peace, started getting along and Iraq became one unified country. However although i'm no expert on Iraq I think Kirk will probably prove right and Iraq will probably fracture into several different countries. It may take years to see how this actually plays out, but I think we need to keep an open mind as to what is the best solution, as some times when the IDEAL solution is not a viable option we have to choose the best possible solution or even the lesser of two evils.
Johnny Moo Moo said "Tito had his version, as did Stalin, Hitler, etc.. Can any one individual or group decisively say they have an answer that conforms to all?
Johnny moo moo
P.S. I can't see Lydia running around to all these different factions in Iraq saying: " C'mon everybody, just love each other", and it actually working."
Johnny I think you made a great point we have to keep an open mind as to what the best possible solution is, Hitler and Stalin all had their own personal agenda they were trying to impose on others. It certainly appears the Bush administration has an agenda regarding Iraq as well, although I am not trying to speak for Lydia, (she does that quite well on her own) but from my perspective she is a realist and does not have any kind of self serving agenda, i'm sure she would like to see our troops stop dying and see the Iraqi's stop fighting and unify into a peaceful democratic nation as would all of us, however i'm sure she would be flexible and open minded enough to realize that if that was not possible it would be ok for Iraq to divide into several counties if that helped bring peace and allowed us to get our troops out of harms way. Also I think Lydia is saying more that Religion should be about love and acceptance not hatred and killing like the Fundamentalist Terrorists and Religious Right have been using it to justify their self serving Agendas.
If you notice people that have hidden self serving agenda's never say they are wrong, never change their mind and are not open or tollerant of other points of view, kind of like Bush, Hitler, Stalin etc..during the debates Bush stated he never changed his mind and when asked if he ever made a mistake or did anything wrong immediately replied no. To me this is scary, everyone makes mistakes, and most people are open minded enough to admit it, also when new information comes in or when a particular course seems not to be working, most reasonable people revaluate their position and then choose the proper course of action, people who think they are infallible or perfect are usually dictators tyrants and megalomaniacs
7:41 AM
So Worf, your from DC?
ReplyDeleteDid you get a nice pension when you retired from the government?
I doubt i'll ever see my pension
Mike
ReplyDeleteI did point out in my post that division may be best...I just hope it doesnt turn into another war of extermination like Yugoslavia.
As for Lydia, I am pointing out that sometimes love is not always the answer; I wish it were.
Like I said earlier, I really miss President Clinton.
Johnny moo moo
Worf
ReplyDeleteI wasnt talking about the funny movie with Henry Fonda, Im talkin about the real deal.
It really is called " The Ardennes Offensive" in which the best German troops, including the 12 ss panzer division, were to split the allied forces in half in a push to the Meuse river. Dec 16, 1944
This whole move was more political if anything as such forces were deperately needed on the
Eastern Front.
The spearhead was led by Colonel Piper whom Americans dont like to much. Lots of Tigers and King Tigers. I have no idea what your talking about when you mention King Henry the eighth.
I think Charles Bronson was in this sad movie.
Johnny moo moo
P.S I have not dusted off any war books.
Anyways, cheers to your Uncle. Would be interesting to talk with him. Please enlighten me on the King Henry thing?
ReplyDeleteJohnny moo moo
Worf
ReplyDeleteLooks like you went out for burgers or something?
Talk to you tommorow.....Im tired.
Nite everyone
Johnny moo moo
Mike, this is correct, thank you:
ReplyDelete"Also I think Lydia is saying more that religion should be about love and acceptance, not hatred and killing like the Fundamentalist Terrorists and Religious Right have been using it to justify their self serving agendas. "
I love this "A soft answer turns away wrath."
It in no way means we’ve got to push our spiritual path on anyone. We don’t have to try to persuade anybody of what we believe. We really need to live it more than talk it, don’t we? Just live the love, live the understanding.
When someone is trying to provoke you or cause trouble, try not reacting for a change. I think everyone eventually will respond to compassion, patience, love, forgiveness. We can’t help it. It's so winning.
I am not a scholar of the bible, but I love this:
ReplyDeleteJesus on the cross saying about his persecutors, “Father, forgive them; for they know not what they do.” That has helped me so many times, because it’s, first of all, that compassionate understanding that no one would do these things if they really understood God as Love, as the loving source of all life, and their relationship to Him.
Nobody would be cruel. Nobody would be unjust if they really understood their relationship to God. In fact, I remember a friend telling me once that what helped him sometimes if someone was very angry at him, or was behaving very badly, he would picture this statement printed across their forehead: “I don’t feel God’s presence.”
And you can think, “That should make me feel compassionate toward them. They don’t feel connected to God.” When someone acts cruelly, they’re not knowing their relation to God.
So our response to that, instead of being angry at them, could be to want to help them feel it, perhaps by the way we respond. Perhaps by our patience, our forbearance, our forgiveness, we can help them feel the closeness of God.
So I think that example was exactly what Jesus showed—that he understood that his persecutors simply did not know God, and he forgave them on that basis.
By thinking about people in the right light, you can instantly transform them, even your enemies. "A soft answer turns away wrath." And remember Daniel in the Lion's Den: the reason the lions never touched him, is because his thoughts were on God, love -- which casts out fear.
Johnny, I also miss Clinton, i'm curious, what is Canada's opinion of the USA, particularly the Bush Administration.
ReplyDeleteI agree with you in that I hope this war doesnt turn into a war of extermination either.
Your also right in that some times you cant always take the high road, its possible that these people will never get along and a fight or war is unavoidable, but it should always be a last resort. As I said before I cant speak for Lydia, but from my perspective she is a realist and a very intelligent open minded person, and although she clearly advocates love, peace and acceptance I dont think its fair to label her as soft or passive. She said in a previous post that we should actually go afer the terrorists not be fighting a corrupt war in Iraq. I'm just trying to say that I think she is open minded enough to see when peace may not work and admit it if that is actually the case, even if peace is what she really wants, unlike the people like Bush who have their own agenda and never waver or change their opinion regardless of what new information comes out or what transpires.
Worfeus, your a little older than me and have a lot more perspective, how would you say the Iraq war compares to Vietnam and Korea are there any similarities or differnces that immediately jump out at you. I know thats a pretty broad question, but i'm curious to hear what you have to say if your willing to take a stab
ReplyDeleteCongrats BIG K on the baby!! Hey guys, I don't mean to interrupt your romantic war talk (I love old war movies too, and am a WWII buff) but I wanted to clarify something.
ReplyDeleteMy husband is in Vegas and we had a horrible fight on the phone about the kids (we were both being controlling schmucks tonight.) I was so upset, I couldn't see straigh and slammed the phone down. I tried to turn it over to love, then typed in "Fight with Spouse" on www.spirituality.com (one of my favorite websites) and up came a series of articles on "forgiveness", so I clicked on the first one: an enlightening talk with a healer who literally stopped me in my tracks tonight.
I transcribed some of those words about Christ in the prior posts; should have mentioned that, sorry. There's something else about how Gandhi, in his early political life, turned an enemy into a friend.
Wow Gandhi, that brings back memories, I remember when I was a kid in school our social studies class went to see Gandhi when it first came out, I knew absolutely nothing about Gandhi and went into the movie expecting not to like it, as at the time I was more interested in classical history and not very interested in Asian or Indian history.
ReplyDeleteWhen I came out of the theater I just remember thinking what a cool person Gandhi was, it was like I instantly liked and respected the guy. Also even though there were many sad or unpleasant parts to the movie I walked out of there feeling good. you kind of remind me of Gandhi in a way Lydia, (BTW I mean that in a positive way) your just a really nice cool person. (hope that doesnt sound too weird or anything)
PS Good Luck with the disagreement
its bout time for bed for me
Hey Worfeus, I actually stayed home on a Saturday night and your out getting burgers as Johnny would say. whats up with that?
ReplyDeleteI kinda was hoping to hear your opinion on how Iraq compares to Vientnam and North Korea
but now its bed time.
Yes Mike, Lydia is very intelligent & open minded. And for the most part agree with her that peace & ummm..GULP..love is always best.
ReplyDeleteTry not to take my teasing of Lydia to seriously. Worfeus understands me 100%. Sometimes I may tease Lydia in an effort to find out just exactly how soft & passive she is or to entice her into sharing more of her views, opinions, and wisdom, thus, I may learn something new.
Lydia is not infallible and we do have our differences, thereby, we are learning from each other.
Lydia is a big girl and she will scold me if I get to out of line.
As for Canadian opinion : Americans are our friends and we feel terrible about 911 ,but I dont think Bush is highly regarded.
Actually, your Vietnam/Korea question is not that broad at all.
In a nutshell - Vietnam/Korea were really nothing more than the good intentions of America to prevent the spread of evil communism. Stalin stabbed everyone in the back in 1945 creating cold war and, extreme paranoia of a world dominated by communism.
The United States, who did not not want to feel isolaed in a communist world, offered to help any country seeking democracy, thus preventing this evil spread and solidifying its own position. And this is where Vietnam/Korea play a role.
You may surmise from this, how it relates to Iraq.
Johnny moo moo
Worf
ReplyDeleteActually, I think Robert Shaw may have played the part of Colonel Peiper.
The thing about Germans disguised as Americans and using your Shermans, was led by Otto Skorzeny and was really a very minor event compared to the rest of the battle. Interestingly, its psycholocical affect was extremely powerful as it was believed this was an effort to assassinate Eisenhower; it was not.
I generally think of Bastogne and Stavelot when this battle comes to mind, not the Skorzeny thing.
You guys really did stop some very powerful panzer corps.
Johnny moo moo
P.S. The recent movie "Downfall" really bummed me out. Its portrayal of Albert Speer was a joke.
Johnny moo moo
Ah Chasing girls and riding motorcycles, Worf your a man after my own heart, I knew there was a reason I liked you.
ReplyDeleteI really liked your post about China and Russia getting involved and will respond in more detail as soon as I respond to Johnny.
The Points I was trying to make last night I dont think were very clear, and I want to apologize if I offended him and clarify what I was trying to say even if I did not.
After that its time for some Football and.....You guessed it a motorcycle ride.
Worf
ReplyDeleteYour super cool man. Among others, I built and painted an extremely well detailed inside/outside version of the Tiger 1; took me hundreds of hours.
I bow my head in shame at your knowledge of this movie. I have not seen it in at least 15 years. I do remember being appalled at it and becoming upset. I didnt even remember Shaw was in the movie, but I did remember an actor portraying an important officer, therby I took an intelligent guess.
Kellys Heroes is an excellent (albeit fictional) movie as is " Where Eagles Dare". I do not remember the armor in Kellys heroes.
Dirty Dozen is another great movie.
I do, however, remember being pleasently surprised at how good the Tiger 1 looked in "Saving Private Ryan". I quickly pointed out, to anyone that cared, that it was cleary on the chasis of a T-34.
I was unaware that Eisenhower denounced the movie.
One of my all time favorite scenes is from" The Thin Red Line" when Capt. Staros is fighting with his conscience after being chewed out by
Nick Nolte.
BTW, can you sell me your excellent memory...you have stunned me many times with it?
Johnny moo moo
Johnny, Thanks for the quick response regarding Vietnam and Canadian sentiment towards America. I think what you say about America fighting to stop the spread of Communism is corect.
ReplyDeleteAbout my post last night, I was basically in agreement with you that peace may not be an option for these people, there was been fighting in the Middle East for thousands of years, and they may never get along and stop killing each other, however I was just trying to say that doesnt mean we should just give up on peace or rule it out as an option.
Johnny you also make a great point that we can learn a lot from each other, and I am in complete agreement with you on this, You and Worf are both a little older than me and have a lot more perspective as well as knowledge of history and I learn something new from you guys almost everyday.
Back to my post though, I am well aware you use the socratic or philosophic method to question theories, sometimes in a playful or sarcastic way, thats cool with me in fact I kind of like your style (its original) I know you are one of the good guys and have good intentions here, and apologize it if it came across like I was scolding you or defending Lydia's honor to you, believe it or not those were not my intentions, even though that may not have been clear from the post.
What i was trying to say is that I think Lydia is trying to advocate love, peace and acceptance in a broader more general way like for religion or life in general, as opposed to for SPECIFIC instances or for EVERYTHING. Too many trolls come on here and bash her that all she is going to say in her book is love is everything or that she coddles terrorists and I just think they are not listening to what she's really saying. Maybe I just get what she is saying,I think kindness and acceptance should be core principles of life and religion.
we are actually more alike than different, as I stated in an earlier post although I am not an atheist, I was turned off to religion at an early age, I think religion is all about power, money, looking down on people and not accepting them and justifying corrupt agendas. I have probably not set foot in a church or temple other than for a wedding or funeral in over 20-25 years. I also feel very uneasy or creeped out by religious people that always preach and try to convert or brainwash you to their way of thinking or hide behind religion to justify their actions or push their agenda. To me Lydia's advocating that the core principles of relgion should be simply kindness and acceptance coupled with the fact that she doesnt try to push her beliefs on others make her a breath of fresh air. BTW I was not in any way trying to lump you in with the trolls Johnny, as stated earlier, I think your one of the good guys.
Worfeus that was a fantasic post last night, I too think Iran could be an important catalyst in escalating the war, they have good relations with both China and Russia. Bush has made veiled threats to Iran (Axis of Evil etc..) and if we ever did take any type of action against Iran it wouldnt surprise me much for China and/or Russia to get involved.
ReplyDeleteChina is quickly moving towards becoming a developed nation, I think they will replace the USA as the dominant economic and military superpower, just as we replaced Great Britain at the turn of the century. They are sucking up a great amounts of natural resources in their attempt to industrialize, in many cases this is putting them in competition with us for energy and raw materials, hence the alliance with Iran.
Although we should not let our interests be compromised or get pushed around, we have to start treating China and Russia with more respect and more as equals rather than talking down to them in an arrogant condecending manner.
These countries could do us a great deal of damage both economically and militarily if they truly wanted to. China is financing our deficit by holding a ton of our debt, they could cripple or destroy our economy by dumping all the debt instruments they currently hold. In addition to this China has become the heart of world manufacturing, what would happen if both their currency rose substantially and they decided to raise prices substantially for their manufactured goods, not much is currently manufactured here in the USA anymore, factories have been closed and moved overseas and we have lost our ability to make things, inflation would run wild and our economy would fall apart if these things happened. Also, most of the worlds oil lies in the Middle East, in the USSR and in the tar sands of Canada which have not really been developed yet, If China is clearly competing with the US for oil and the Middle East and Russia are clearly not our allies what do you think would happen if Russia, China, and the majority of the Middle East formed an alliance and cut of the USA's oil supply, it would be a disaster is what, both our economy and our military need oil to function. I think we better work with Candada ASAP to develop the tar sands or we could be in a great deal of trouble.
Worf do you think war with China and Russia is enevitable, or do you think our relations with them could change if we started treating them with more respect and respecting their interests and needs as well as just our own.
Mike
ReplyDeleteGood post!
All is well! All I can say is Lydia is twice the human being I am. You too are an okay Joe.
Maybe her and Worf can show me something I have not yet seen?
Believe me, I too have learned much.
But, I do not follow blindly.
Who knows, maybe Worf and Lydia will CRUSH me and my atheist views one day; I doubt it, but you never know.
Im pretty sure Worf and I are going to be playing poker together at the fish fry.
Johnny moo moo
Dont mention Poker Johnny, this is the first weekend I havent played poker since New Years, i'm exhibiting withdrawl symptoms
ReplyDeleteIran - Russia - China - United States...think Ill take that blue pill now.
ReplyDeleteJohnny moo moo
It is a sobering thought, the USA might be a 200 pound tough guy, but an alliance between Russia, China and Iran would definately be an 800 pound gorilla on many levels.
ReplyDeleteAnd I also think your right that the administration would be completely blindsinded by it, as they clearly cant see past their own pride and arrogance.
The Bush Administration is clearly not among the great thinkers and planners, although all their arrogant and condescending tough talk is being eaten up by a lot of rednecks, teens and and early 20 year olds it is pushing us into a very bad situation that many of these same people are completely unaware of.
I'm pretty confident if all these people who supported the war and all the tough talk realized that the war is costing each American something in the neighborhood of $25,000 per person I dont think they would be so blindly supportive of it. Bush gives them a measly 300 tax refund, then charges over $25,000 on their credit card to pay for his war. sounds like a great deal to me, he's a real working man's president LOL
Lydia and Johnny,
ReplyDeleteThank you both for the well wishes concerning the future Little K. I did not say that to Johnny yesterday and I realized that this evening. Sorry about that.
As for a Vietnam/ Iraq debate. Here is another take on it. After the Tet Offensive the US pulled out and let the peaceniks in this country have their way. This cost many Vietnamese their lives. Who were spared were sent to “reeducation camps,” concentration camps with a nice new name but the same great flavor of the original. Our troops were sent home to face the “peaceful” American population that threw blood on them when they got off the plane and tried to cut them with home made weapons. My dad was one of those troops, he tells me stories of the day he came back on occasion.
In other words, there is little in common between the two save the fact there is a very vocal opposition to the war in this country, same as before. The scale, the tactics, the reasons, and hopefully the treatment of our own citizens and troops are and will be different.
Also, Worf, Lyndon Johnson (Democrat) effectively got the US in the war, while Richard Nixon (Republican) got us out, albeit in defeat. Claiming the Republicans were the reason we were there and the sole force keeping us there is a little strange. The war ended LBJ’s political career, he said he would not run for reelection. Nixon won on an antiwar platform. Maybe the reaction to that is why dems have their political views about war. That and the Korean War (Truman got into that one, also a Democrat). I can only speculate on that last point though.
All of the accusations of “Bush lied,” and “Bush is turning America into a fascist state,” have forced some serious thought about the inherent differences between those of us on the “right” and those of us on the “left.”
ReplyDeleteThroughout history there have been those who wanted to believe that all people can be reasoned with, given the time and effort. Those people who tried that tactic with Genghis Khan probably had little success and short lives, but still those people with pacifist tendencies have persisted. Apparently, the few who survived the tragic aftermath of their extended peace efforts managed to pass on to their children the slogan, “Give peace a chance.”
Now giving peace a chance is a noble endeavor but at some point that endeavor turns into nothing more than an opportunity for evil people to grow into uncontrollable monsters. After the leftists have failed in their attempt to reason with the unreasonable, they grudgingly turn to those of us on the right to put the evil genie back in the bottle because that is all one can do with evil. Then, evil bides its time until it can be unleashed on the world again and the cycle begins anew.
-Barbara Stock
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