Tuesday, October 07, 2008


On Thursday October 9, 2008, Former President Clinton Advisor Paul Begala will be the guest on the Basham and Cornell Radio Show at 8 am Pacific Time on AM 1230 KLAV in Las Vegas and simulcast worldwide on the web.

Paul is a Democratic strategist who serves as a political contributor for CNN, appearing frequently on CNN's The Situation Room as well as other programs on CNN networks.

Begala was formerly co-host of Crossfire, CNN's political debate program. Begala first entered the national political scene after the consulting firm he and fellow Democratic strategist James Carville started, Carville & Begala, helped President Bill Clinton get elected in 1992. Serving in the Clinton administration as counselor to the president, he was a close adviser to Clinton and helped define and defend the administration's agenda, serving as a principal public spokesman.

He is currently an affiliated professor of public policy at Georgetown University's Public Policy Institute. Begala is not a paid political consultant for any politicians or candidates for office.

Upcoming and recent guests: Tom Daschle, Hooman Majd, Ahmedinijad's translator. If you live in Vegas you can tune in Live or go to our website and listen in the audio archives.

The Basham and Cornell Show broadcasts weekday mornings at 8 am Pacific (11 a.m. Eastern) on KLAV 1230 AM Radio live in Las Vegas. Again, all shows are simulcast worldwide on the Internet (and archived) and can be listened to at Basham and Cornell Radio

If you've missed our show, check out the audio archives for MP3 podcasts. We have interviewed Former Reagan Advisor Past Buchanan, CNN Crossfire's Bill Press, Rep. Carolyn Maloney, John & Elizabeth Edwards, Dennis & Elizabeth Kucinich, John Dean, NBC Bureau Chief in Tel Aviv Martin Fletcher, Pulitzer Prize winner Charlie Savage, Congressman Charlie Rangel,Valerie Plame, Vincent Bugliosi, Christine Pelosi, Dahr Jamail, Senator Mike Gravel; Senator Byron Dorgan; bestselling authors Greg Palast, Paul Krugman, Greg Anrig.


McCain and Palin's Long List of Lies Pinocchio Politics.org

BUT PALIN IS THE MOST CORRUPT, UNETHICAL CANDIDATE for her lies about Obama. But the worst thing is McCain snickering, smiling while a man in the audience yells, "Kill him!" after Palin spews her inflamatory lies about Obama hanging out with William Ayers. What a lie. Obama was 8 years old when Ayers was a college kid with the Weather Underground. Ayers not only apologized and asked forgiveness for his college associations, but he was never convicted and has been pardoned by President Clinton. Further, Obama attended one coffee conference that Ayers attended in his State Senate career. And by the way, Ayers is a distinguished university professor.


Obama “pals around with terrorists.”
ACTUALLY: Obama was 8 when radical Bill Ayers planted bombs to protest Vietnam. Now a professor, he & Obama volunteer for the same charity. (CNN FactChecker)

McCain 'suspended' his campaign.
ACTUALLY: During his campaign 'suspension', McCain aired attack ads, raised $, and kept all his campaign offices open. (CNN FactChecker)

Obama will raise your taxes.
ACTUALLY: Obama's tax plan lowers taxes for 95% of middle class families. (factcheck.org)

Obama wants to teach sex ed to kindergartners.
ACTUALLY: The bill Obama voted for in the Illinois Legislature helps protect children from sexual predators. (factcheck.org)

Obama called Sarah Palin “a pig.”
ACTUALLY: It was McCain’s attempt to repackage himself as a candidate of change, that Obama was chiding when he said, “you can put lipstick on a pig, but it's still a pig" (factcheck.org)
Obama opposes all free trade.

ACTUALLY: Obama supports free-trade agreements that include significant protections for workers and the environment. (liecount.com)

McCain “never asked for a single earmark.”
ACTUALLY: McCain hauled in pork for Arizona -- most recently a $10 million academic center to honor the Justice Rehnquist. (politifact.com)

Obama will increase spending by $1 trillion.
ACTUALLY: Obama’s proposed $990 billion in new spending will be near exactly offset by his $989 billion in spending cuts. (Washington Post)

Obama will “hand the health care system over to the federal government.”
ACTUALLY: Obama's plan expands federal coverage, but will allow people to keep their current plans or choose from private ones. (factcheck.org)

Obama thinks Iran “doesn’t pose a serious threat.”
ACTUALLY: Obama said Iran doesn’t pose a serious threat *in comparison to the Soviet Union.* (factcheck.org)

Obama wants to bomb Pakistan.
ACTUALLY: Obama sees Pakistan as key ally, but is willing to strike Al Queda leadership even if within Pakistan’s borders. (New Republic)

Obama voted against funding the troops.
ACTUALLY: Obama voted to fund the troops 10 times. Both McCain & Obama have voted against funding when attached to larger bills they opposed. (factcheck.org)

Obama voted for higher taxes 94 times.
ACTUALLY: Obama has voted consistently to reduce taxes for the middle class, while supporting tax increases ONLY on the very wealthy. (factcheck.org)

Palin “vetoed millions of earmarks.”
ACTUALLY: Governors can’t veto earmarks; this year alone, Palin pushed for $197 million in earmarks. (MSNBC, Wash. Post, TPM)

McCain tried to reform Fannie Mae
ACTUALLY: McCain only supported *a report* on Fannie/Freddie corruption. Meanwhile, his staff lobbied for deregulation of both. (New York Times and DKos)

Offshore drilling will reduce the cost of gas.
ACTUALLY: Offshore drilling will not reduce the price of gas until 2030, and then only by a few cents. (politifact.com and doe.gov)

US companies pay world’s 2nd highest corporate taxes.
ACTUALLY: Over 160 countries have higher corporate taxes. (liecount.com)
Obama will tax electricity.
ACTUALLY: Obama supports taxing dirty fuel like coal to pay for clean energy like wind and solar. (factcheck.org)

McCain invented the BlackBerry.
ACTUALLY: The BlackBerry was developed by Research In Motion, a Canadian company. (wired.com)

McCain says "I have always told 100% absolute truth."
ACTUALLY: um, no. See above lies. (politico.com)

Obama supports “infanticide.”
ACTUALLY: Obama will protect any baby “born alive,” even if from an induced abortion – but not bills that use this as a cover to undermine Roe v Wade. (factcheck.org)

Obama thinks troops in Afghanistan are “just” killing civilians.
ACTUALLY: Obama called for more troops on the ground exactly so “we're *not* just air-raiding villages and killing civilians.” (Huffington Post, Washington Post)
Obama snubbed wounded troops.
ACTUALLY: Obama has visited wounded troops many times. He cancelled one visit in Germany so it wouldn’t be misconstrued as political. (factcheck.org)
Biden supported McCain on Iraq until this election.
ACTUALLY: Biden & McCain agreed in 2004 on the need for more troops, but from then on, Biden has strongly differed with McCain on Iraq. (TPM)

"Thanks, but no thanks" (repeated 36++ times)
ACTUALLY : Palin supported the Bridge, then opposed it, and kept the money for a bridge that won't be built. politifact.com

McCain refuses special interest money
ACTUALLY : McCain takes millions from big oil and foreign military contractors – and his campaign is run by lobbyists - mccainslobbyists.com

Sarah Palin commands the Alaskan National Guard
ACTUALLY : Sarah Palin has next to no authority to command the National Guard - vetvoice.com

Obama agrees that the economy is fundamentally strong
ACTUALLY : Obama disagrees with McCain's foolish claim. - CNN PoliticalTicker

Alaska Produces 20% of US Energy
ACTUALLY : Alaska produces just 3.5%. Neither fact means Palin is qualified. - factcheck.org

McCain's Campaign has no Connections to Fannie Mae or Freddie Mac
ACTUALLY : John McCain flat lied – his lead campaign adviser Rick Davis took checks from Freddie Mac until August 2008. -
NY Times

Palin Rejected $500 million Earmarks
ACTUALLY : Palin pushed for federal earmarks as both Mayor and Governor. - MSNBC and The Washington Post and TPM
Obama is 'mum' on the economic crisis
ACTUALLY : Obama has offered a variety of proposals, but held off on a full bill because he didn't want to play politics with the economic crisis. - factcheck.org

Palin sold the Govnr's jet on EBay
ACTUALLY : In a political stunt, Palin put the jet on eBay for much less than its worth – and it didn't sell. -
The Washington Post

Obama gave big oil millions in subsidies
ACTUALLY : This claim has no basis – Obama subsidized alternative energies and taxed oil companies. - factcheck.org

Palin took on big oil
ACTUALLY : Palin only disagreed on where to place one pipeline, otherwise she supports ANWR drilling and other disastrous policies. - factcheck.org

Obama Killed Immigration reform
ACTUALLY : Obama voted for bipartisan immigration reform bills, while McCain decided he would vote against his own immigration bill- hardly a step forward for reform. -
The Washington Post

Palin visited troops in Iraq
ACTUALLY : Palin grandstanded on a US base in Kuwait, but never quite made it over to Iraq. - The Boston Globe
Obama wants to increase government size by 23%
ACTUALLY : McCain invented this figure from faulty assumptions and misstatements. - politifact.com

Obama opposes the electric car
ACTUALLY : Obama backs clean energy, he said 'no' to McCain's ineffective free-market solutions to the energy crisis. - politifact.com

Obama is advised by the former CEO of Freddie Mac
ACTUALLY : Obama only spoke with the Freddie head once, on the phone. John McCain's campaign adviser was taking checks from Freddie until August '08. - liecount.com

Obama wants to bomb Pakistan
ACTUALLY : Obama merely supported taking action against Osama bin Laden when the US knows where he is, using special forces troops. - The New Republic

McCain supports a 'bipartisanship' in the bailout
ACTUALLY : McCain has openly blamed Democrats for the economic collapse, and Obama for the bailout bill's failure in Congress. - Talking Points Memo

Obama asked for a million $ a day in pork
ACTUALLY : Fuzzy math. - liecount.com

"23,000 People at our rallies"
ACTUALLY : No one knows where this number came from. It appears to be a fabrication. - Bloomberg

FactCheck.org Agrees with Us
ACTUALLY : FactCheck.org disagrees, particularly about this lie. - factcheck.org

Palin Fired Trooper for Performance Reasons
ACTUALLY : Palin's story keeps changing, lying about her previous lies. - ABC News

Obama is part of the corrupt Chicago establishment
ACTUALLY : McCain's assertions make mountains out of molehills. - factcheck.org


  1. Palin has been travelling the country, HIDING from reporters while making speeches that accuse Obama of associating with terrorists.

    She is as low life a trailer trash coward as I have ever seen.

    She's whoring herself out to the McCain camp, slandering and smearing Obama with the most foul, bitter lies one could imagine.

    She's a coward because she will smear people without being willing to take ANY QUESTIONS from reporters but instead RUNS and HIDES from questions and interviews that will challenge her dirty filthy lies.

    And she's a whore, because shes selling any integrity she had to the McCain camp.

    So she's a liar, a coward and a whore.

    And she's dumb dirt stupid to boot.

  2. Palin is truly the female incarnation, of the character, Commodus. (as portrayed by Joaquin Phoenix)

  3. If they win, she will not doubt spend her first months in office, sneaking up on John McCain and yelling "BOO!".

  4. What I saw for Obama last night was a Gregory Peck like moment. Here was the calm, cool candidate, who has had his race dragged through the mud by McCain and his new henchwoman, Palin, (who’s been out there labling him a terrorist sympathizer while simultaneously running from any reporters or journalists questions and interviews that would challenge her smearmongering campaign of hate) yet he never stopped smiling.

    And he has a GREAT smile.

    He just sat there, calm, cool, Gregory Peck like, towering over the little old meanmouthed man standing next to him, mocking him, calling him “that one”, and didn’t miss a beat.

    But when his moment came, was when McCain tried to interupt him, and started across the stage to try and intimidate him, and said “thank you”, interupting Obama. Obama instead of “reacting” just sucker punched him as we walked right into it. It was the ole “ONE TWO”.

    He smacked him down on the BombomBom Iran song, AND his statements on anihilating North Korea.

    McCain visibily REELED at this one, and I felt for a moment there that I was watching a prize fight where the knockdown blow had just been delivered.

    Obama, like Gregory Peck, showed the coolness there of a man who “walks soft, and carry’s a big stick” something Mccain was bragging about, and that made the debate for me a clear win.

    I didn’t give the last one to Obama. I called it a wash. But this one, … this one Obama bitchslapped him across the room there, and there is no doubt, who was victorious last night.


    Thank God.

  5. Gee last time I saw noses like that was on Dalton , and he won the election even thought it was true..

    You think American managers ,workers have lost the work ethic ?

    I mean the bosses at AIG go on the public nickle to pimp around, maybe they should go to economic boot camp and get fired for not nowing how to balance a bank book ....

    The economy was unleashed from regulation in the early 80's and continued 4/5 year term bosses have led us here , will they be any diffrent now ?

    Will the Hoover dam infrastructure project of the 20teens be the hydrogen infrasturcture of the I need any work people of the next decade ?

    scary to think that a lifetime of savings can be chewed up by a few high or rather easy flyers riders.

  6. Bart, Caribou Barbie has always been what you see right now. She's always whored herself out wherever she could get her Narcissism satisfied. Check out her record; the attention is what keeps Sarahpoleon going. She's a "popular kid" teenager that never grew up.

    Oh, and she's the absolute worst form of white trash there is, too. Make no mistake about that; she's an ignorant, racist, Jesusistan fanatic who believes herself to be one of the "chosen ones" and therefore exempt from having to play by the rules the riff-raff have to play by. To call her Chimpy in a skirt is, in some ways, to slur Chimpy.

  7. As Pastor Muthee would say, "Amen".

  8. Former President Clinton advisor Paul Begala is on our show tomorrow.

    Senator Tom Daschle is on our show Monday.

    Thanks for listening.
    You can get MP3 podcasts of all our shows in the audio archives at BashamandCornell.com

  9. Get the word out: the biggest problem we have is right-wing talk radio which is full of lies and propaganda.

    Under everything are these lies that people keep hearing and repeating from AM TALK RADIO: that Obama is a "frightening Manchurian candidate, a secret Muslim, a friend to terrorists.

    Sean Hannity spends 3 hours a day saying this and had a very well-watched special one hour show on Obama that people are saying paints a "frightening" picture of Obama.


  10. You're interviewing Paul Begala?

    He's a fairly intelligent man. I don't agree with some of his less aggressive strategies and gameplans but all in all he's a pretty sharp cookie.

    That should be a good interview.

  11. The stuff they are saying about Obama right now I can't understand. I can't understand how they're getting away with it.

    Keith Olberman did a collage of Sarah Palin's speeches over the last week, and everyone she basically accused Obama of being a terrorist, or at least a terrorist supporter.

    She said it over a DOZEN times in ONE WEEK!

    Clearly this woman is not just stupid. She's foul, evil and corrupt.

    She is the worst example of an American that I've ever seen.

  12. Lydia. Want to see something?

    Check out this YouTube video, where McCain is busy proving my point that he's slipping into senility.

    My Fellow PRISONERS

  13. Now, come back and tell me he's not losing control of his marbles.

    That was no "minor" gaff.


    In fact, I'm hoping it was prophetic.

  14. What's funny bart, is NOBODY reacted when McCain said it.

    You'd a thunk they wouldn't like being called criminals would you?

  15. Maybe they're just used to hearing it?


    Wasn't that a great gaff Clif?

    That one was a "KEEPER".

  16. Clearly a Freudian slip.

  17. Almost as good as his set up of Barack last night before the jujitsu hit he took.

    BTW we know it's over cause the trolls seem to have slithered away.

  18. shh... don't wake them.

    Its nice and quiet in here today.

  19. The blowback against the greedy fat cats has begin;

    Chicago's Cook County won't evict in foreclosures

    The sheriff here said Wednesday that he's ordering his deputies to stop evicting people from foreclosed properties because many people his office has helped throw out on the street are renters who did nothing wrong.

    "We will no longer be a party to something that's so unjust," a visibly angry Cook County Sheriff Tom Dart said at a news conference.

    "We have to be sure that when we are doing this — and we are destroying some people's lives — we better be darned sure we're talking about the right people," Dart said.


    Dart said that from now on, banks will have to present his office with a court affidavit that proves the home's occupant is either the owner or has been properly notified of the foreclosure proceedings.

    Illinois law requires that renters be notified that their residence is in foreclosure and they will be evicted in 120 days, but Dart indicated that the law has been routinely ignored.

    He talked about tenants who dutifully pay their rent, then leave one morning for work only to have authorities evict them and put their belongings on the curb while they are gone.

    By the time they get home, "The meager possessions they have are gone," he said. "This is happening too often."

    In many cases, he said, tenants aren't even aware that their homes have fallen into foreclosure.

    Kudos to him for caring more about justice then money.

  20. But then again you still have ass-hats like this;

    Perino Confirms White House Won’t Extend Jobless Benefits, Says People Should Just Find A Job

    Hopefully this dimwit will be outa a job come next January.

  21. If anyone missed Michelle Obama on Jon Stewart tonite, go to Comedy Central.com and watch it as soon as its up.

    What a class act. I mean what an incredible, class act. She is genuinely a nice lady. She was sweet and warm and genuine, and so refined. So cultured and refined.

    She was such a striking contrast from the foul, bitter mouthed Cindy McCain, and Sarah Palin.

    She didnt' say one harsh or mean spirited thing about McCain or Cindy McCain, instead she actually was genuinely warm and spoke kindly of them. And not in a fake way but in a REAL way. She was genuine and sincere in a way we seldom see in politics these days.

    When you look at the rabid Sarah Palin and her foul mouthed screaming about Senator Obama being a "terrorist sympathizer", and Cindy McCain now saying the same thing, and then look at the beautiful, gracious and warm, kind, soft spoken Michelle Obama, its such a striking contrast as to be overpowering.

    There is no comparison. Michelle Obama is on a level that Cindy McCain and Sarah Palin have never in their lives even approached.

  22. I think her appearance on the Daily Show tonight will do wonders for Obama's campaign.

    You just couldn't help but like her.

  23. I know what you're thinking Lydia.

    You're thinking, why can't I be more like Michelle Obama.



  24. bart, her appearance on the daily show was good, BUT she really shines on Larry King to night, she had nice things to say about Cindy McCain AND Sarah Palin.

    Larry king laid out some of the less nice things both have said, and Michelle Obama just passed it off as part of the campaign and nothing personal, including the that one comment by John McCain.

    She doesn't come like the republicans portrayed her, but as the calm in the middle of the storm of the campaign.

    She doesn't want to do the mud, or character issues, but discuss real problems and how to solve them and how to work together, and she had the time to go into details and expand beyond the sound bite.

    It's much more impressive then what I see from the McCain/Palin stage performances.

    She will make a great first lady.

  25. I try to avoid situations where I'm forced to watch Larry King.

  26. I'll make an exception in her case.

  27. Bart it is worth putting up with Larry King's idiosyncrasies to see her speak openly at length about her views on things.

  28. Do you think that Michelle Obama is on that plain as was Jacqueline Kennedy ?

  29. Hey I heard a rumor today you might be interested in...

    Your favorite prosecutor Patrick Fitzgerald may be coming back into the limelight.

    ACORN and BO's campaign may be violating RICO laws with their massive fraud in voter registration across state lines AND donations from individuals exceeding the maximum amount, and people in other countries donating illegally.

    Stay tuned for this one!

  30. Sorry duncetron the Ayers lies and spin didn't sell so your goosesteeping reichwingers are NOW tryin' to sell this one,

    I followed the deceit back to the HillBuzz crap fest blog, where that internet rumor started, and realized you gutless chicken hawk yellow bellied clowns are really THAT desperate now,

    Enjoy son,

    This one ain't gonna stop Obama from his date with destiny on January 19th 2009, anymore then the lies and spin about Ayers did.

    BTW son how do the right wing talking heads speak about the senile grumpy old guys pick of the TWIT go over;

    The Palin choice “is political bullsh*t”
    – Peggy Noonan, longtime Reagan confidante/speechwriter & WSJ conservative columnist

    Palin “is absolutely not ready to be president or vice president… scorns not only liberal ideas but all ideas… is a fatal cancer to the Republican Party”
    – David Brooks, conservative commentator on PBS, NYT, WSJ and ex-editor of the National Review

    “you really got to have some people in charge that have some sense of the bigger scope of the world, I think that’s just a requirement… I think it’s a stretch to, in any way, to say that she’s [Palin's] got the experience to be President of the United States,”
    – Senator Chuck Hagel (R-NE)
    Ranking Rep. member Senate For Relations Comm.

    “If BS were currency, Palin could bail out Wall Street herself… Only Palin can save McCain, her party, and the country she loves. She can bow out for personal reasons”
    – Kathleen Parker,
    Conservative columnist for Townhall.org & National Review

    Obviously, for all the talk about Sen McCain’s experience: the first, (and some would say for a man with cancer who will be 76 before his term is over) possibly most important decision of his potential Presidency has shown, to be polite, extremely poor judgment.

    God help us all if that “cocky whacko” (former Senator Lincoln Chafee R-RI) ever gets within 3000 miles of the White House.

    Looks like they don't thunk McCain is up to the job after his idiotic pick of a VP for a campaign stunt, instead of thinking of the good of the country.

    So spew your ignorance son,and hope for it all you want bozo cause in the end the american people see Obama as presidential in stature and you hate filled bigots haven't been able to spew enough lies and reich wing spin to stop it.

    Get used to it son;

    President Barack Hussein Obama

  31. The Cowardice Issue

    The image is coming into focus. Even McCain's confidants are now suggesting that it was his anger and frustration with Obama that led him to embrace Steve Schmidt's Willie Horton-on-Steroids campaign for the White House. And whether it's the appearance before the Des Moines Register Editorial board or his tense refusal to make eye contact during the first presidential debate, I don't think many people would deny at this point that McCain's hostility and contempt for Obama -- what even Wolf Blitzer calls his "disdain" -- is palpable.

    After the first debate many people wondered aloud whether it was hostility and contempt or fear and intimidation that kept McCain from looking Obama in the face even once. But with two weeks and more evidence to consider, it is clear that it was both: Hostility that is magnified by the person's mortifying inability to face the person who inspires it. That's the kind of unchanneled, clogged up anger that makes you unsteady, that makes you make mistakes.

    McCain's moral cowardice has been one of the subtexts of this campaign ever since he wound up the nomination and turned his attention to Barack Obama. But I did not realize it would reveal itself in such a physical dimension.

    The tell came this week as McCain unearthed the Ayers story which, for whatever its merits, was fully aired months ago and has no clear relation to the particulars of October other than McCain's collapsing poll numbers. He's on it. Palin's on it. He's releasing slashing new TV ads like this one. Both of them are ginning their crowds up into spiraling gyres of right-wing delirium -- a ready-made Lord of the Flies (and let's admit that's a gentle allusion, given the tone of these barnburners) if Obama happened into one of the auditoriums at the wrong moment.

    He ever swaggered on for a couple days about how he was going to 'take the gloves off' when he met up with Obama in Nashville. But when the two of them were there in each others physical presence ... nothing. By a myriad of gestures and reactions Obama owned him.[punked him, pawned him big time, showed him for the big mouth no show he is, taught him how it is done at town halls]

    Nor is it a matter of shifting off the tactics, because as soon as McCain made his hasty retreat from the stage at Debate #2 he was right back at it. In every other aspect of life, high and low, refined and unlovely, we have a word for that kind of behavior: cowardice.

    And now Obama can lightly taunt McCain with that very cowardice, his inability to just say it to his face. And if my take on the inner workings of McCain's mind at the moment is right that should simply unhinge him even more.

    --Josh Marshall

    Like I said duncetron;

    Naa, naa, naa, naa;

    Naa, naa, naa, naa;

    Hey, hey, hey;


    Naa, naa, naa, naa;

    Naa, naa, naa, naa;

    Hey, hey, hey;


    Naa, naa, naa, naa;

    Naa, naa, naa, naa;

    Hey, hey, hey;

    Goodbye, McSame;

    and the clueless twit too .........

  32. Even you former favorite polling site just put Obama as having enough electoral votes to win duncetron;

    From Real Clear Politics;

    Obama/Biden 277

    221 Solid 56 Leaning

    McCain/Palin 163

    143 Solid 20 Leaning

    Toss Up 98

    (No toss ups;

    Obama 364, McCain 174)

    Which means son, Obama is winning almost all the toss ups as well.

    get used to saying,

    President Obama.

  33. Here's why the Palin Hate Express is trying to keep the press from their supporters.

    Cause they are loony tunes ....

  34. Is McCain gonna call HIM a terra-ist now?

    McCain's Hero General Petraeus: "You Have To Talk To Enemies"

    General David Petraeus, who McCain recently named as one of the three living people he'd most like to dine with, didn't return the favor in a speech at the Heritage Foundation yesterday, saying: "I do think you have to talk to enemies."

  35. Joe Biden knows you say it to their face;

    "All of the things they said about Barack Obama in the TV, on the TV, at their rallies, and now on YouTube ... John McCain could not bring himself to look Barack Obama in the eye and say the same things to him ... In my neighborhood, when you've got something to say to a guy, you look him in the eye and you say it to him."

    Otherwise people might think your a coward about what you say.

  36. Mike, gold exceeded the S&P

  37. Court Throws Out GOP Effort to Quash Trooper-Gate

    The Alaska Supreme Court has rejected the effort by Republican legislators to quash the Trooper-Gate investigation, affirming the decision of a lower court last week.

    Details from the ruling to follow...

    Update: The court wrote: "The order of the superior court issued on October 2, 2008 granting the Motion to Dismiss is AFFIRMED. An opinion will follow."

    Looks like caribou barbie don't have the cover up clout the reich wing in Washington has .... for now.

  38. Voltron said ACORN and BO's campaign may be violating RICO laws with their massive fraud in voter registration across state lines AND donations from individuals exceeding the maximum amount, and people in other countries donating illegally.

    Now, the campaign one is still pretty murky but unfortunately the Acorn part is correct. It was in Independence, MO and they turned in a bunch of bogus voter registrations.

    Of course, when you look at how many legitimate votes the Redumblicans manage to squash every election, it seems a shame not to be able to add a few back. However, I can tell you from first hand experience that Obama is running an honorable campaign and we are not doing anything even remotely illegal or even questionable in out canvassing.

    Too bad Rove's army cant say the same thing.

  39. Dolty apparently doesn't exist. Someone has written a wingtard bot that repeats whatever was on the Laura Ingraham program on any given day.

    A human being would know that there has yet to be a proven case of widespread voter fraud, and a human being would also know about the wingtards' loathing of ACORN. They've been trying to shut ACORN down for years, but they have YET to produce anything that would stand up in court.

    It isn't "false" registrations the 'tards hate. It's the WRONG registrations (as in, non-wingtards and minorities) that the 'tards want to shut down.

  40. guess it's useless to ask but this is interesting

    "A final thing that made the Great Depression such a catastrophe was that some of the worst shocks occurred right before the 1932 presidential election."

    Party politics at play ?

    are we going down the same road ?

  41. It's official, John McCain has had to back down his supporters from repeating the reich wing lies that have been spread for months,

    He told one person fearing Obama's election "Obama is a decent person and a person you do not have to be scared of" and the kool-aid addled crowd BOOED McCain."

    He took the mic away from a woman who was lying calling Obama an Arab, he said "NO mam, He's a decent family man citizen who I happen to disagree with",

    It must SUCK to have to back track on your campaign strategy ....... like he did.

    I actually hand it to him for doing it in front of the people Sarah Palin whipped into such a frenzy,

    I wonder if he is going to say to her;

    "NO mam, He's a decent family man citizen who I happen to disagree with"

    Of is he afraid of saying that to her face?

  42. Oops the Troopergate report seems to say Sarah Palin BROKE STATE LAW.

    To the trolls, don’t say it is partisan cause the vote to release the report was 10 republican members and 4 democratic members, so a all of the of republicans on the committee voted to release the report … she just might have a bigger problem then losing the VP office but her criminal misuse of her governors office …..

    The report says she LIED when she said she didn't fire Walter Monegan for not doing her family's bidding.

    SHE LIED to the Alaskan people;

    She lied to the American people.

    She lied ....

    Enough reason NOT to vote for her if lying about a blow job was enough to get the Clenis impeached.

    We now KNOW we can't trust a word out of her mouth.

  43. And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be?

    And what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?

  44. And Jesus answered and said to them, Take heed that no man deceive you.

    For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.

  45. And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars:

  46. For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom

  47. and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places

  48. Then they will hand you over to those who will torture and kill you.

  49. And then shall many be offended

  50. ....and shall betray one another

  51. ... and shall hate one another.

  52. And many false prophets shall rise...

  53. and shall deceive many.

  54. And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.

  55. By the way. For those of you who argued with me about my point that nothing will improve until we get lenders lending again, and stop scaring them out of lending, well, if you won't listen to me, maybe you'll listen to Suze Orman.


    What the Fed Rate Cut Means for You & Your Money

    You probably heard the news that the Federal Reserve reduced its Federal Funds rate from 2% to 1.5% the morning of October 8th. Now let me explain what that means for all of us during this volatile and scary time...

    The Federal Funds rate is the going rate that banks charge other banks to borrow money. Right now we are in the midst of a credit crunch. Banks aren’t lending money to anyone, be it other banks or consumers who want a mortgage or car loan.

    So the idea with this Federal Funds cut is to make it even less expensive for banks to loan out money that they can then charge a higher rate on.

    The goal with this rate cut was for the Federal Reserve to give banks an incentive to lend more money-ease the crunch-because the banks can make more money if they borrow at a lower rate and lend at a higher rate.

    That’s the main goal of today’s rate cut that was coordinated with similar rate cuts across the globe: to cajole and entice big banks to get back into the business of lending money to businesses. When that finally starts up again it will eventually trickle down to helping all of us. Once banks start lending to each other and to businesses those banks and businesses will turn around and look for consumers to lend to

    "The Suze Scoop"
    -Suze Orman

  56. Unless we get the lenders lending again, nothing will improve.

  57. That’s the main goal of today’s rate cut that was coordinated with similar rate cuts across the globe: to cajole and entice big banks to get back into the business of lending money to businesses.

    When that finally starts up again it will eventually trickle down to helping all of us.

    Suze Orman

  58. BARTLEBEE said...
    By the way. For those of you who argued with me about my point that nothing will improve until we get lenders lending again, and stop scaring them out of lending, well, if you won't listen to me, maybe you'll listen to Suze Orman."

    My argument was MORE that all getting lenders to lend more freely right now will do is slow down the deterioration in the economy.................GWB advocated going shopping after the terrorists atacked and squanered iour surplus giving us stupid $300 tax refunds and you thought that was idiotic then while I FULLY agree that we MUST make sure credit is available to the credit worthy and banks are solvent and well capitalized.

    How can you say things will be fine if lenders are willing to lend if borrowers are losing their jobs and homes and are too indebted to borrow or buy................there are 2 sides to every equation and lenders being willing to loan is meaningless if borrowers are not willing to or are unable to take on more debt.

  59. Bottom line this phony frankenstein sham of an expansion under GWB was built on sandy shoals the foundation was rotten.........is was an expansion based on phony manufactered GDP and CPI inflation numbers that were total fabrications and was fueled by reckless credit expansion and incresing and unsustainable levels of debt............Consumer spending is 70% of the economy and consumers were buying things buy going into debt running up their credit cards and by pulling equity OUT of their homes.

    The Game is OVER PEERMANENTLY FOREVER..........the factors that allowed housing to run up and allowed consumers to keep spending and live above their means were

    1) cheap and readily available access to credit.

    2) extremely low interest rates.

    3) negative REAL interest rates that fueled home price increases and made debt more tolerable as home prices rose.

    4) the ability to pull equity out of homes to fuel spending

    5) excessive demand for homes because anyone with a pulse could get a loan.

    Those factors are No longer there to prop up housing prices or consumer spending and since Consumer spending is 40%-50% of jobs and Wall Steet and banking are likely another 5% unemployment wioll go up substantially which will cause more forclosures which will cause housing prices to drop further which will cause more banks to fail as the assets are revalued lower..........this is a LONG way from over.

    I've seen lots of recessions this WILL be MUCH MORE SEVERE than any that has occured in MY lifetime during recessions earnings and assets ALWAYS get revised and ratchet lower MANY times analysts ALWAYS under estimate how bad things really are.............there will be ups and downs but it could take a minimum of 10 years to get out of this and then things will NEVER be the way they have been the last 20 years.

  60. As For Suzy Orman I like and respect her just as I do you..........your both 2 smart people that I tend to agree with almost all the time...........this time I do not however...............cutting interet rates 1/2 point isnt going to do crap number one theyve been cutting for overr a year now and i have PERFECT credit and ny credit card rates and the rates i can get on car or home loans havent gone down essentially at all.................number 2 lowering the rate 1/2 point ISNT going to entice ANY bank to loan that is worried they could NEVER see the money at all.

    Keep in mind Japan cut rates to zero and for the last 20 there stock market is MUCH lower than where it was and there economy has stagnated for decades.

    What people fail to realize is the stock market just like housing is ONLY worth what people are willing to pay it DOESNT matter what they were worth before that was insanity that will NEVER happen again...........think about it like collectibles lets say a a rare baseball card that is worth a million dollars because there are only believed to be 5 known examples was selling for over a million then 20,000 more examples are discovered it would be worth far less housing is the same, if prviously houses sold for 300,000 because there were 20 buyers for every house it only stands to reason if there were 50 houses for every buyer they might be lucky to get 1/3 of the value and with increased unemployment, forclosures, structer lending standards, tighter credit, and higher interest rates that will most certainly be the case.

  61. Mike.

    This isn't complicated.

    Until lenders start lending again, NOTHING will improve. I never said anything about that curing any problems, or being a panacea for everything.

    But it is the ONE thing that needs to happen now, if we're going to stay out of a depression.

    Its ALL resting on lending and saying ridiculous things like "the Game is over forever" isn't helping.

    I don't know what else to say to you people. You don't get it. You think you do but you don't.

    The problems we're experiencing now is NOT do to bad mortgages.

    Its due to people like you, buying into congresses claims last October, and spreading the fear and panic.

    What we are suffering under now was caused by one thing and one thing only.

    FEAR and PANIC.

    When you people stop with the fear and panic, and start understanding that housing values will climb WHEN buying starts up again, then we'll be on the road to recovery.

    But that won't happen until Obama is elected and you guys can feel comfortable saying he fixed it, instead of looking at the root of the problem.

    Its not bad mortgages.

    Its panic talk.


    Nothing more.

  62. All the things you sit there screaming about, lower home values, jobless rates, all happened because of people like you, screaming the sky is falling.

    It all happened because of the spread of panic.

    There was a fire. The fire was a controllable one. The fire was some mortgages were bad and there were SOME unscrupolous traders who built securities on these mortages, and suddenly, a company named "Realty Trac" sprung up and started spouting doom and gloom figures.

    Then the democrats in congress took those figures from Realty Trac, and started spreading panic while simultaneously essentially FREEZING lending, by declaring investigations forthcoming into the mortgage industry.

    This in turn locked down lending, which froze home sales, which caused home prices to drop which caused a glut of houses which caused foreclosures which caused millions of workers to be laid off in thousands of supporting and peripheral industries which in turn caused more defaults and on and on and on.

    Its a spiral, and what people like you Mike, smart people, need to do, is STOP with the damned fearmongering and start understanding that its not the fire thats killing us, but the stampede to get out of the room.

  63. Lydia said 2 years ago that "Consumerism" was over and she was absolutely right that reckless mantra of saving nothing, going into debt tapping the home to keep spending and buying homes without 20%-30% down...........thats over FOREVER its not fear mongering its reality and the fact that without all those reckless destructive tactics to prop up houusing, the economy and employment a long and painful recession is inevitable!

  64. Cutting interest rates BY ITSELF won't do enough, obviously.

    Its like putting a tournicate on injury. Its there to stop the bleeding, not heal the wound.

    Its ONE step, and a GOOD step, in doing the ONE THING that will get our economy moving forward again.

    And that ONE thing, is getting lenders to lend again.

    Everyone like you, are busying heralding the SYMPTOMS of the problem, instead of the actual problem. Fear is the problem.

    Fear by lenders who will not lend, which FREEZES the economy and in turn puts us out of work and out of funds.

    You can talk to me about the symptoms and effects of this crisis until you're blue in the face, but the fact is that the CAUSE, is no lending.

    Congress froze up lending in October, and its snowballed since then, just like they wanted.

    Ask yourself a question.

    Whats the ONE thing that every political analyst agrees on that is causing Obama to pull forward in the polls.


    Which is what the democrats wanted last year, right before the election, just like I predicted.

    LENDING is the key here Mike.

  65. Unless lenders start lending and on a large scale, then all your fear and gloom predictions will come true.

    By self fulfilling themselves.

    You can talk to me about a million different solutions you have but the fact is the ONLY thing that will fix this economy, is to get the lenders lending again.

    Without credit, every business out there is going under.

    Best Buy can't sell TVs and Computer stuff, so the people making those things are losing their jobs. The people selling that stuff are being cut back.

    Without credit, Car dealers can't sell there cars, and are going under, which in turn put millions of auto workers jobs on the chopping block.

    And without credit, home sales grind to a halt, in turn putting MILLIONS AND MILLIONS of people out of work.

    Everyone from the Realtor, to the Mortgage lenders and all their clerical staff, to the carpenter to the bricklayer to the factory worker to the landscapers to the painters, plumbers, electricians, drywall men, flooring installers etc, and all the businesses that support these industries or rely on them, go under.

    EVERYONE suffers as long as Americans let their rage rule, and let Congress play them like a cheap banjo, telling them to froth and foam at the mouth about "getting the FATCATS".

    Tell me this. When you're walking down the street carrying your personal possessions in your bindle stick as you walk to the nearest soup kitchen for your evening meal, will it "comfort" you knowing you "stuck it to the fat cats"?

    Use your head.

    Petty people worry about "sticking it to the fat cats", and those people are damned to petty lives.

    Stop worrying about "sticking it to someone" and "making someone pay", and start concentrating on keeping our country afloat.

    The fatcats aren't the problem right now.


  66. Theres nothing wrong with buying homes with no money down. That permits the average person to own a home.

    Theres nothing wrong with a spending economy. Spending means people get jobs. Jobs means more spending, and common wealth.

    Spending is GOOD.

    And MOST people pay their bills.

    There will ALWAYS be people who default on loans.

    There ALWAYS has been. Always will be.

    We need to stop screaming "FIRE" in a crowded movie house.

    We need to calm down, and THINK.

    NOTHING will work, unless lending returns.


    And you can sit there on the curb with the rest of the unemployed and homeless, waiting for a handout while you console each other on how you "got the fat cats", if that makes you happy.

    But if you want to eat next year, and you want a roof over your head that belongs to you, then you need to take the rage, the hate, the fear, and the panic, and put it away, and start focusing on WHAT WORKS.

    And what worked in the Great Depression, and what worked in 1989, was simply funnelling money into banks to get them to lend again. (and raising taxes on the TOP tax bracket).

    THATS what works.

    The rest is just all hype.

  67. FDR knew what fearmongering did, which is why he instituted his "bank holiday".

    He didn't even call it "shutting down the banks" which is what he did. He called it a "HOLIDAY" to help calm people.

    And he did it to stop the PANIC. Which he knew, was the REAL problem.

    People sit there and say "omg the sky is falling" "Pull your money out of stocks" and then you sit there and proclaim how badly the stock market is falling.

    Its falling because people are taking their money out.

    And people are taking their money out because everyones saying the sky is falling.

    Its a CYCLE. Why can't you see that?

    Why is that so hard for you people to see? Is it fear? Hate? Rage?

    What emotion is blinding you personally Mike, thats keeping your otherwise intelligent brain, from comprehending that yelling FIRE in a panic is only going to perpetuate the damage???

  68. Once more, think about that White Snake concert where there was a fire and all those people were killed.

    There WAS a fire.

    But the fire wasn't what killed the people.

    It was the PEOPLE that killed the people.

    They killed themselves with their PANIC.

  69. There ARE some bad mortgages out there.

    But we KNEW there would be when we started lending to higher risk people.

    Its NOT the bad mortgages that are causing this economic collapse.

    Its the PANIC.

    The panic made lenders stop lending.

    Panic STARTED by democrats in congress trying to spread fear prior to the election.

    Panic perpetuated, by those like you, who would dance to their fiddle, and spread the panic.

    Sorry Mike, but I am not wrong here.

    And neither is Suze Orman.

  70. Bart said "And what worked in the Great Depression, and what worked in 1989, was simply funnelling money into banks to get them to lend again. (and raising taxes on the TOP tax bracket).

    THATS what works."

    Your preaching to the choir I KNOW thats what NEEDS to be done and will help that doesnt change the fact that a severe recession is inevitable though.

  71. I REALLY want to resond to your posts, i'll have to reply tomorrow though, I have things i need to take care of this evening.

  72. What your not realizing is the mortgage credit crunch is only the catalyst or trigger that causes the economy that has its foundations on sandy shoals and lies to implode its not the cause its merely the trigger once you understand that you will also understand that while capitalizing the banks so they can lend is critical there are other factors in play just as powerful pushing the economy in the same direction as the credit crunch.........plugging one of the holes without dealing with the others doesnt help that much.

  73. Ask yourself this question Mike.

    If lenders won't lend money...

    A. How do car dealers sell cars?

    B. How do realtors sell homes?



    How many people have 15 or 20 thousand, in cash, that they can use to buy a car with?

    How many people have a Quarter of a million dollars in cash, to buy a house with?

    The answer is hardly ANY.

    99 percent of auto and home sales are done on a CREDIT, not cash.

    Knowing this, ask yourself these questions.

    What happens to Auto Manufacturers when they can't sell autos any more?

    What happens to the millions and millions of people who work for those auto manufacturers jobs when they can't sell any more cars.

    What happens to the debt of the automanufacturers, when they can no longer sell cars.

    Who eats that debt?

    What happens to those that eat that debt?

    And it just goes on and on and on.


    This ain't rocket science. Its simple.

    And its the same way with the Mortgage lending industry, only much worse.

    There is ONE thing that will stop the bleeding, and thats getting the lending moving again.

    Problem is, because of all the fear mongering and panic, its gotten worse, and no everyones been focused on "MAKING SOMEONE PAY" instead of focusing on how to deal with the problem.

    So in the last several weeks, we've lost a lot of blood.


    Those are things we will eventually do. The effectiveness of these things will be directly based to how quickly we implement them and stop the cries of panic, as will the level of residual damage be controlled by the same factor. Time.

    We should have passed the 700 billion bailout back when the Dow CLIMBED on news of it.

    THATS when the "iron was hot". We could have made a dent then, and started turning this ship around.

    But instead, RAGE, HATE, EMOTIONS OF REVENGE, FEAR, PANIC, etc ruled, and everyone spent their time blathering about how they need to "STICK IT TO THE FAT CATS".

    The democrats AND republicans in congress said "Don't BAIL OUT THE WALL STREET FAT CATS" and everyone in the country lapped it up.

    Everyone sat back and declared how EVIL the "FAT CATS" were and how we're not going to bail them out, never bothering to read about the great depression, or the crisis of 89, and how THIS VERY MOVE worked then.

    This is a failure of History teachers all across America, and a failure of students to learn.

    Injecting money into the ailing banks is what got us out of this mess in the 1930's, and in the 1980's and its what WOULD have gotten us out of this mess 3 weeks ago.

    And it STILL CAN, if we stop the panic and start using our heads.

    Its not "bailing out fat cats". Its backing our own banks, where WE KEEP OUR MONEY.

  74. And don't give me stories about some CEO's going to a spa.

    Yes, I know they suck.

    But what would you rather do?

    Stick it to the fat cats, or keep your job?

  75. Would you rather:

    A. Stick it to the Fat Cats

    B. Keep your job

    C. Keep your house

    D. Eat

    E. B, C and D.

    Please check one of the above.

  76. Mike said...
    What your not realizing is the mortgage credit crunch is only the catalyst or trigger that causes the economy that has its foundations on sandy shoals and lies to implode


    I realize much more than you know Mike, and I know a lot more about this industry than you think.

    And thats bullshit.

    The MORTGAGE industry is the CRUX.

    Its what backs our economy and its NOT SANDY SHOALS.

    Thats the PANIC BULLSHIT.

    Whats SANDY about it? NINETY NINE PERCENT of mortages written last year are GOOD!


    Not bad.

    99 PERCENT.

    That "SANDY SHORE" bullshit is what started all this.


    MOST MORTGAGES are sound, and what happened was mortgage backed securities got a bad rap because of PANIC TALK, so foriegn investors PULLED OUT THEIR MONEY and that in turn devauled US monatary funds and that in turn caused banks to start struggling, because they invest OUR money in THOSE securities.

    It ain't rocket science, and I'm getting tired of writing the same things over and over again, just to have you or someone skirt over what I say and just come back with that "sandy shoals" bullshit.

    Its bullshit.

    The SHOALS are only sandy because we're draining the pond.

  77. But your stubborn insistence on clinging to your fear is typical and I doubt is changing anytime soon.

    I doubt they'll do anything significant until AFTER the election, because the democrats don't want a fix. They want a panic, that drives voters to the polls.


    Run sheep, run.

  78. When people stop and go back and look at what Alan Greenspan tried to tell us, about maintaining the mortgage industry to fuel our economy to compensate for the dot.com drop off, then they'll get it.

    Our economy inflated because of the dot coms which in turn drove up the housing market, which when the dot coms dropped off, "propped up" the economy and would have continued to do so had Congress not scared the lenders into not lending.

    Talk of new regulation in the middle of a crisis was the STUPIDEST damn thing in the world to do.

    Thats like telling the guy driving you you in the amublance to the emergency room that you're a policeman and you're taking notes as to the number of traffic laws he violates on the way to the hospital.

    Its STUPID.

  79. Sooner or later, those in power who already know what needs to happen, will allow it.

    Perhaps prior to the election if they feel Obama has the lock. If not, then after the election, once he's won.

    In the meantime, real people are losing their entire lifes savings, like my brother, who has now lost more than 2 thirds of his retirement account, all in the last 3 weeks.

    Eventually though, you will hear on the news, exactly what I've been preaching to you since last October. That it was fear that took a manageable problem, and turned it into an economic collapse.

    You'll hear these stories on the news after they've stimulated the lenders to start lending again which will in turn stimulate the economy into moving forward again.

    You'll see these stories, and you'll all no doubt say "yea, but".

    But there is no "but".

    Theres just the simple fact, that when we smelled smoke last October, the Democrats in congress yelled FIRE, and got a lot of us run over in the stampede.

  80. If you understand why this graph is really really bad, you'll get why bart is miles off the mark.

    Cause it ain't the US housing market that is going belly up, it is the entire planets economic foundations;

    Countries at risk of bankruptcy from Pakistan to Baltics

    A string of countries face the risk of "going bust" as financial panic sweeps Asia, Eastern Europe, and Latin America, raising the spectre of a strategic crisis in some of the world's most dangerous spots.

    Nuclear-armed Pakistan is bleeding foreign reserves at an alarming rate leading to fears that it could default on its loans. There are mounting fears that Ukraine, Kazakhstan, and Argentina could all now slide into a downward spiral towards bankruptcy, while western banks exposed to property bubble across Eastern Europe have seen their share price crushed. The markets are pricing an 80pc risk that Ukraine will default, based on five-year credit default swaps (CDS) – an insurance policy on a country being able to pay its debts.

    The country's banking system has begun to break down after years of torrid credit growth; its steel mills are shutting as demand collapses; and the political crisis is going from bad to worse. President Viktor Yushchenko dissolved parliament this week in a dispute that risks bitter conflict with the country's Russian bloc. Diplomats fear Moscow could be drawn into the crisis – or even use it as a pretext to occupy territory in a replay of the Georgia invasion this summer. Ukraine's government seized Prominvestbank this week, suspending payments to creditors. It closed the Kiev stock market, which has fallen 73pc this year.

    Emerging market stocks have been tumbling since their peak in October, when investors were still betting that rising stars such as the BRICs (Brazil, Russia, India, China) were now strong enough to shake off a US crisis. That illusion has been shattered. The International Monetary Fund said it is mobilising a "rapid-fire" fund worth several hundred billion dollars to stop a domino collapse across the developing world.

    The trigger for the latest round of capital flight has been the lightning implosion of Iceland. BNP Paribas warned clients yesterday that the island is heading for "sovereign default" with contagion risks for other economies that have been living beyond their means on foreign credit. Hungary had to intervene yesterday to prop up its markets following a run on country's biggest lender OTP. The Budapest bourse fell 13pc. The treasury had to scrap a bond auction. The most new mortgages in Hungary are in Swiss francs, leaving the homeowners facing a vicious squeeze as the forint plunges against the franc.

    In Pakistan, the rupee has fallen to an all-time low. Standard & Poor's downgraded the country's sovereign debt to near write-off levels of CCC-plus. The central bank's foreign reserves have fallen to $4.7bn (£2.73billion). "The danger of default is hovering," said Professor Kaisar Bengali from Karachi University. "Pakistan may not be able to re-pay its debt or import anything," he said, adding that the country cannot assume that it will be bailed out for strategic reasons.

    Default risk on Kazakhstan's top banks has risen to 70pc as property bubble bursts in the former Soviet republic and reliance in foreign credit comes back to haunt. The country has mortgaged its future to oil prices, which crashed below $80 a barrel yesterday as the whole nexus of commodities (except gold) buckled in a wave of forced selling. Analysts warn that it is leading indicator for what could happen in Russia if crude falls much further.

    bart is posting about reviving the canary while the coal mine is exploding.

  81. Just how bad is it really?

    Berlusconi Says Leaders May Close World's Markets

    Italian Prime Minister Silvio Berlusconi said political leaders are discussing the idea of closing the world's financial markets while they "rewrite the rules of international finance."

    "The idea of suspending the markets for the time it takes to rewrite the rules is being discussed," Berlusconi said today after a Cabinet meeting in Naples, Italy. A solution to the financial crisis "can't just be for one country, or even just for Europe, but global."

    Group of Seven finance ministers and central bankers are meeting in Washington today, and will stay in town for the International Monetary Fund and World Bank meetings this weekend. European Union leaders may gather in Paris on Oct. 12, three days before a scheduled summit in Brussels, Berlusconi said today, while Group of Eight leaders may hold a meeting on the crisis "in coming days," he said.

    Berlusconi didn't give any details about what kind of rules leaders were looking to change, except to say that leaders are "talking about a new Bretton Woods." The Bretton Woods Agreements were adopted to rebuild the international economic system after World War II in a hotel in Bretton Woods, New Hampshire.

    The aim of the agreements was to establish a monetary management system, initially by pegging currencies to gold. The IMF was set up later to help manage the international financial system.

    If re-inflating the housing bubble could solve the problem things like this would never be publicly discussed.

    Cause shutting down the markets all over the planet means two things;

    1 The problem is a little larger then just the losses in the US housing market.

    2 Things done so far just ain't a working.

  82. You guys will just never get it.

    At least you clif. You call me "miles off the mark" and then proceed with your endless crying bout the sky falling by showing us SYMPTOMS and EFFECTS caused by the collapse of the housing market.

    I've spelled it out PAINSTAKINGLY for you, how each industry collapsed in a domino effect.

    Hell the idiot news did an idiot demonstration for you, where they lined up GIANT DOMINOS with various things on them then knocked them over, showing how everything DOMINO'd once the housing market collapsed.

    The housing market was a LITTLE bad last October, with an "INCREASE" in loan defaults.

    This was MANAGEABLE, and could have been dealt with for a lot less money than we're spending now had we done what were FINALLY getting around to doing now.

    But guys like you in Congress, started screaming THE SKY IS FALLING, INVESTIGATE THE MORTGAGE LENDERS, which immediately froze lending.

    This in turn caused the millions of real estate investors and developers around the country to go belly up, defaulting on tens of thousands of mortgages they held, because they could no longer sell their investment properties because no one could get a loan to buy them.

    THEN we had a much larger problem, with this sudden splurge of defaults CAUSED by Congresses freezing up the lending industry.

    So you see, if you'd LOOK, and stop scouring the internet for someone elses take on it, and LOOK at what I am saying, that you NEVER address, then you'd see its you who are way off the mark.

    But instead you just lazily post some link on the internet to an article you think supports your positions but what really just shows us the EFFECTS of the collapse of the mortgage industry, and sit back and say "nuh uh".

    Try writing your own words for a change, and actually addressing the specifics of what I am saying.

    Greenspan said it in his book.

    Suze Orman spells it out on her website.

    And I know, from personal dealing in the industry and from a WIDE array of friends and contacts in the mortgage lending and banking industries, that this is the problem.

    People who know money understand that until lending resumes, nothing will move forward.

    And they also know, that as long as people like you scream the sky is falling, the problem is just going to get worse.


    If this were the Titantic, and I was the purser, I'd be loading my side arm right about now.

  83. Clif said

    1 The problem is a little larger then just the losses in the US housing market.

    2 Things done so far just ain't a working.

    A. Of COURSE the problem NOW is larger than just the losses in the housing market. Try READING what I've spent countless keystrokes in countless posts trying to tell you.

    Of COURSE its larger now.

    Thats what "snowballing" means.

    B. Things haven't been done yet. Little bits of money have been pumped in but they're not injecting funds into the bank yet.

    They APPROVED the bill but they're only beginning to act on it. They've propped up AIG, and a few other firms, but they haven't injected cash flow into the banks, which is what we did in the great depression, and what this bill was designed to allow.

    Also, they did it too late. Back when you all were crying to not let them pass the ORIGINAL bill, back when the stock market was CLIMBING on word of the bill, it would have done some REAL good.

    Now, as every financial analyst on television keeps trying to tell you, its just a "tournecate to stop the bleeding".

    We need MAJOR steps now, because we didn't strike when the iron was hot last month.

    Now, we're just trying to hang on.

  84. Three things have to happen now if we're to keep from sinking.

    1. We have to inject cash flow into the banks and give real incentives to lend. That means backing off on this investigation talk and the "heads must roll" nonsense, until we get the ship steady.

    2. We have to make provisions for homeowners to not lose their homes, and we need to find ways to help investors and devlopers offset losses.

    3. We need to stop the stampeding herd. All this doom and gloom crap is whats facilitating the stampede. People who cry the sky is falling over and over are like cowboys chasing their own cows off the cliff. We need calm, cool heads and reason and not all this end of the world nonsense. The world is what we make of it and right now, the bed we're lying in is made up of our own panic in the face of a problem.

    Enough already. Calm down, look for the signs of growth and concentrate on real immediate solutions. Now is not the time to reinvent the wheel. We need to fix the wheels we have, then we can worry about improvements for the long term.

    If we can replenish the banks and at the same time, slow the default rate while simultaneously getting people to calm down and stop spreading panic, then we will be doing some good.

    Real, tangibe good.


    Or, we could further freeze up lending by screaming "off with their heads, and watch our country and domestic system collapse into a third world anarchistic nightmare, comforted only with your the satisfaction at having acheived your petty revenge.

  85. And don't feel bad about the 'petty revenge' thing.

    Its not personal.

    Revenge is always petty.

  86. No bart YOU don't get it, you keep wasting keystrokes trying to rewrite history;

    The current financial crisis is only the beginning

    Yes, Virginia, the banking crisis will one day end, but what comes after promises to be even more arduous.

    With the solvency of the Western banking system seriously in question, there is a temptation to hope that if only the latest bold, last-ditch rescue plan will work, we can go back to the good old days of 2006.

    One could argue that the banking crisis is just the cold sweat, not the flu that follows it.

    The problem is not just that the banking system has been broken by an orgy of foolish lending but moreover that huge swaths of the global economy are predicated on that foolish lending and the consumption it allowed.

    The bubble wasn't just in real estate, leaving the financial system holding the bag; the bubble was in consumption.

    That is not to say that the current scrambling to save the system is pointless. There is a very big difference in the damage that would be done by a disorderly deleveraging compared with a slightly slower, more controlled one.

    The banking crisis will have very serious negative effects on the real economy, and the cost will grow. This is true even if ATM machines continue working, our deposits stay safe, and gold, bullets, canned goods and bottled water don't become the best asset allocation choices for 2008.

    The core of the issue isn't even solvency. It's the way in which the debt causing the banking insolvency distorted, distended and hollowed out economies around the world.

    It caused a huge misallocation in the English-speaking economies into real estate, and into consumption that could only seem to make sense to people drunk on the appreciation of property prices. It caused a less huge but still significant misallocation elsewhere; I think we will see that a lot of what was being produced by Europe and Asia's vibrant export industries were products that the United States and Britain will find they can do without, or with much less of.

    Don't get me wrong: The banking crisis is extraordinarily dangerous. But the changes in the global economy that are needed are even more profound. Savings rates are going to need to rise in the developed economies of the English-speaking world, and consumption fall. Those economies are also going to have to place a higher priority on producing goods and services they can sell abroad.

    There are lots of parts of the "service economy" that very likely won't exist in two years time, or only in a very feeble way. Take for example the U.S. and British phenomenon of late-middle-aged people setting up small service businesses after they have been laid off from their jobs. Very often they use a combination of their severance package plus equity extracted from their houses to provide themselves with working capital, and often to supplement their earnings.

    So, someone who - for the purposes of argument - used to work for IBM in the Hudson Valley in New York State starts a business installing marble countertops. For four of the last six years that has been a good business, but the people paying for it were only able and willing to do it so long as the illusion that consumption-is-investment could be maintained.

    That is over, and significant parts of the U.S. economy will need to be repurposed, and will need to do so at a time when we are suffering from asset-price deflation and may well get deflation. The recession will be long and probably ugly.

    Just think about your own lives and the people you know: How many of them do jobs that didn't exist 15 years ago but have nothing, really, to do with new technology? Many of those jobs are enjoyable and worthwhile offshoots of a credit bubble and will have a very difficult time surviving its demise.

    Similarly, it will be tough for those English-speaking economies' global enablers. China will need to find somewhere else to sell many of its goods. The grand bargain of China buying U.S. Treasury bonds to finance consumption in the United States will come under enormous and dangerous strain.

    Europe, too, as well as other exporters, will hit difficulties - not just in their banking systems, which helped finance the binge, but also in their auto and consumer electronic industries, just to name two.

    There is no doubt that the needed changes can happen and that these innovative and creative economies can re-balance. But it is going to be very painful.

    Let's say it again;

    The bubble wasn't just in real estate, leaving the financial system holding the bag; the bubble was in consumption.

    Things ARE going to have to change no matter how much YOU don't want them to.

    We in the United States need to learn to live with in our means and stop thinking we can borrow like there is NO tomorrow when the bills come due,

    it really is that simple.

  87. sorry bart, but the house of cards the US economic system has been built on since the borrow and spend culture was given the green light has gotten it's balance due notice.

  88. Cheney said deficits don't matter;

    BUT they do,

    you can't live beyond your ability to pay your bills forever.

    whether you are a




    The bills evtually always come due

    just like the ARM resets and sub prime resets did it to the housing market.

  89. That is the truth you seem intent on ignoring for some reason;

    We all have to pay the bills we run up,

    and if our financial situation is built on a house of cards,

    it isn't solid enough to survive the current down turn.

  90. the economic swings are part of the process, but the last 6-7 years the economic system was built upon a claim prices couldn't go down, BUT they can and did.

    and it is NOT something anybody said, but the fact the resets were too expensive for a large majority of people who lost their homes.

    that is what caused this to happen NOT any words spoken

    but the interest rates AND lack of over sight in the mortgage companies, banks, investment houses, governments

    all of them share the blame for it.

    speaking the truth NOW won't change it one bit,

    but keep complaining Mike, Jolly and I are the problem because we speak what is happening right now.

  91. Of COURSE the problem NOW is larger than just the losses in the housing market. Try READING what I've spent countless keystrokes in countless posts trying to tell you.

    Of COURSE its larger now.

    It was always gonna get this bad


    because the banks and investment houses allowed trillions MORE debt created them the possibility of ever paying all of it off.

    And the housing bubble was created almost the same way by greedy bankers and wall street investment houses more interested in the immediate profit then the long term solvency of the system.

  92. Here. If you think theres nothing to be positive about, check out this video of Sarah Palin being BOOOED at a hockey game tonight.


    Seems as if Palin is not so popular with her fellow hockey fans.

    Note the Obama\Biden signs the fans are waving in the background.


    Even dragging her daughter out with her didn't keep the fans from booing.

    See? There are positive signs.

    Just have to look for them.


    again with the negative waves Moriarty?

    Why can't you say something righteous, and hopeful for a change?

  93. Clif paniced;

    It was always gonna get this bad


    The losses we're seeing now is from panic investors and a run on several banks, and the panic of foriegn investors of US securities.

    You are stuck in a perpetual loop of hate, and fear.

    I can't write this out for you again clif. Its not rocket science.

    Our injuries aren't from the fire. They're from the STAMPEDE.

  94. Real simple math example,

    The entire planets worth is around 170 trillion,

    the credit default swaps are over 62 trillion,

    the lehman swaps just sold for around 9 cents on the dollar.

    which means the swaps real worth is around 6.9 trillion

    so you have to remove 55.1 trillion out of the 170 trillion to pay off the debt created by the CDS market, or deflate the entire planets net worth by around one third.

    THAT is the root of the real problem.

    Not the canary in the mine housing bubble you keep wasting key strokes telling Mike Jolly and ME to STFU

    cause we are not going to stfu

  95. The losses we're seeing now is from panic investors and a run on several banks, and the panic of foriegn investors of US securities.

    NO bart the losses are from the fact the entire investment schemes hatched on wall street some starting in the 1970's the CDS were hatched in 1994, all grew far too big to ever get resolved but in a negative way.

    YOU can NOT have 170 trillion in wealth supporting 370 trillion in total debt, with out LOTS and LOTS of people getting burned bad in the process,

  96. We were starting to bleed severely last month, and when the medics came with bandages and tournecates to stop the bleeding, you stopped them, and started arguing with them about whether or not they needed to stop the bleeding.

    Now, the bodies lost a lot of blood, and you're STILL arguing whether we need to stop the bleeding.

    You won't get it clif, probably because you've never handled real money before, I don't know. But whatever the reason you clearly don't get it. YOU are part of the problem, not the solution right now.

    Later on, when the ships safely on shore, THEN you'll be more help in going after "the fat cats".


    But for now, can we worry about getting the plane safely on the ground before we hang the pilots?

  97. The housing bubble exposed that issue,

    but it is the reason people are NOT handing out easy credit,

    cause they don't know who holds too much toxic debt in CDS to ever pay the new credit back let alone the credit they already hold.

    THAT is the root of the real problem and it is world wide,

  98. Bart there is NO landing the plane

    cause it is NOT one plane

    but each bank and country is a separate plane

    some have crashed

    some are gonna crash unless we forgive almost all their debt.

    some can't survive in the new constricted economy even if we forgive their debt because their costs are larger then the profits they can make now.

  99. It is NOT one problem

    but many problems interconnected;

    some smaller like the housing bubble which by itself would be manageable

    some massive like CDS swaps.

    and some like the banks which have far too much toxic debt to survive will be taken over like the FDIC, british dutch, iceland germany et al are currently doing.

  100. Bart the real solution is each and everyone of us to live with in our means.

  101. If and when we do that the problem can be dealt with,

    But as long as we collectively want more then we can pay for,

    We have a GROWING problem of debt.

    Currently the debt we have is strangling the world economy.

  102. The US government has refused to ask the US tax payer to live with in their means since the 1970's

    and as each year went by the media and culture sold the idea we as individual citizens could do as the government was doing, live large and ignore the mounting debt.

    that can NEVER end any way but bad.

  103. Clif said...

    NO bart the losses are from the fact the entire investment schemes hatched on wall street some starting in the 1970's the SKY IS FALLING THE SKY IS FALLING

    My gosh. I don't know what else to tell you.

    You don't get it.

    You'll probably never get it because you don't want to get it.

    People pulling their money out of stocks is what causes the stock market to drop.

    Any idiot can understand that so I assume you can, right?

    And any idiot can understand that the reason investors pull their money out is because of fear.

    So if you can understand those too things, then why can't you understand that its people like you spreading the PANIC???

    Listen. No one is denying stuff went on.

    No one is denying their were losses due to an increase in loan defaults. But it was MANAGEABLE.

    I don't know if you're lying or just don't know any better, but only ONE PERCENT of mortgages written last year failed, up from half a percent the year before.

    This means our securites are good, because the bulk of the mortgages are good.

    We had a problem, but it wasn't as big as you doom and gloom panic people made it out to be. Now because of your PANIC and FEARMONGERING, and because of the Dems in congress scaring the lenders into a lending freeze that caused more mortgages to default thus further increasing the number of bad mortgages which further devauled securities which further caused investors to flee the securities which further worsened the panic on wall street who also listen to the doom and gloom mongers, and on down the line.

    We had a wound.

    Then, you guys with your panic came along, and PRYED THE WOUND APART, causing massive hemmoraging and now we can't stop the bleeding.

    You don't get it, and thats fine, but I'n done spelling it out for you.

    Like I said, if this were the titantic and I were a purser, you'd be in the water by now.

  104. Since the late 1990's I have forced myself to live within my means, which meant I only bought a car when the cost of that car payment didn't mean anything but I had to cut discretionary spending by that amount.

    Since early 2005 I have lived debt free, because I could see this problem rearing it's ugly head, and didn't want to get caught short.

  105. My gosh. I don't know what else to tell you.

    Bart, YOU don't get it, the banks are NOT reacting to the housing bubble BUT the CDS market and the commercial paper market.

    BTW they definitely aren't reacting to what YOU or I say.

    PS nice to see you ignored the FACTUAL part of that post like Voltron usually does.

  106. This is the part YOU left off;

    the CDS were hatched in 1994, all grew far too big to ever get resolved but in a negative way.

    YOU can NOT have 170 trillion in wealth supporting 370 trillion in total debt, with out LOTS and LOTS of people getting burned bad in the process,

  107. Which is the crux of the real problem the world bankers are looking at NOT this blog.

  108. Clif, bullshit about you living within your means has nothing to do with this.

    This is not about people defaulting on loans.

    You are busying trying to cure the disease and I am trying to keep the patient alive.

    Your cure for the disease is whats killing the patient.

    The IMMEDIATE Losses we're seeing now are caused by what I said they're caused by. Your panic.

    This country lost a few trillion dollars in real wealth over the past 3 weeks and you're trying to talk about underlying issues we've lived with for years instead of the hemmoraging of the tumor.

    We lost that money in the STOCKS.

    And how did we lose it?


    And why did they pull out of them?


    PANIC spread by folks like you.

    If you don't stop the bleeding, then you won't have to worry about a cure.

    My solution is to get the plane on the ground, THEN redesign the aircraft over time.

    Your solution, is to rebuild the plane in mid air.

    You don't see it because you have no real wealth. I can tell you don't own a home. Not one you paid for yourself anyway.

    If you had real money at any time in your life, you might see this. You might see what it is. But you don't, so instead your intent on kicking back and bashing the system and saying "BURN BABY BURN", while you sip a soda and go to harley conventions.

  109. Anyway I don't want to offend so we disagree.

    Good night.

  110. This country lost a few trillion dollars in real wealth over the past 3 weeks and you're trying to talk about underlying issues we've lived with for years instead of the hemmoraging of the tumor.


    The REAL problem all over this planet of the LACK of credit,


    In you analogy is a massive coronary, which is what is shrinking all the banks willingness to lend

    Whether commercial for business, which is causing them to contract collapse and lay off workers, and credit for the consumer which is what under lies their ability to buy things which is 66% of our entire economy at the moment.

    That coronary started when Lehman collapsed, Merril was bought out AIG had to beg for it's survival.

    It is why the banks refuse tom loan the hundreds of billions of dollars, euros, yen, central banks all over this planet have loaned then in the past month.

    The banks do not trust each other nor the balance sheets of GM Ford GE et al so they refuse to loan except at high interest levels which means the loans won't help.

    Cutting interest rates won't cure this because the truth is NOT in the interest rates but the hidden balance sheet.

    Buying up toxic debt will help BUT we don't have the ability to buy it all up or fast enough to stop the recession from getting severe.

    The housing crisis is just a small part of the toxic debt problem which is why 1% of bad mortgages aren't the problem,

    BUT the tens of billions of CDS and tens of billions of other derivatives which aren't worth in reality what they are claimed worth on paper are the problem giving the worlds economy the coronary we have experienced since mid Sept.

    Only by freeing up the credit markets and getting commercial paper moving and the LIBOR rates between banks back down will the credit markets and equity markets swing back in balance and moving in positive ways again.

    That is accomplished by giving day light to balance sheets so trust between the people who hold all those central banks loans will unfreeze their operations.

  111. I can tell you don't own a home. Not one you paid for yourself anyway.

    Sorry, but I have owned my house since 1990, and paid the first off, so when I bought the second and sold the first I paid the second one off in 2002.

    Trust me NOBODY but me sent the bank a check for the mortgage payment.

    In fact I bought my first new Harley when I was in the military right after I returned from the Gulf War, and didn't by another until I paid the second home off.

    That Harley I paid off in 39 months as opposed to the 84 month dealer loan, because I decided to get out of debt before I bought anything else.

    So I am NOT sure what you're claiming here, but I handled million dollar budgets as a commander in the Army and millions of dollars of equipment.

    I also learned to pay my bills on time if not faster, and live with in my means.

    I don't live large but comfortable.

  112. BTW it seems Henry Paulson agrees the credit crisis IS the real problem which is why he is buying into banks to resolve their hidden balance sheets and not the mortgages which are only a symptom of the problem.

    He has sort of jettisoned his plan he got put of congress a week ago, for a British/Swedish model where the government buys into banks to restore trust in each other.

    If the banks think the government is backing them and checking the balance sheets they MIGHT unfreeze credit and solve the deep problem which is crashing wall street and the economy at the same time.

    That is what will get us on the road out of this mess, however it will not be easy or quick, which is what it seems most people want right now.

    Just like the 1929 crash, this one won't be over quick, however if we unfreeze the credit the solution will start to stop the slide THEN beginning the slow climb out of this morass the fast easy credit combined with lack of any real regulation or oversight got us into.

    The solution needs to include a prevention of the next bubble which is the quick fix Greenspan used in 2001/2 to get the country out of the last recession, which landed us all here and now.

  113. I think I agree with Bart.

    I was an English major in college so I confess to not having the greatest sense of finance, but it seems to me a person only really loses money on the stock market if they sell when the prices are lwess that they bought it for. Selling off stock is what drives the prices down.

    Therefore, if a lot of these people stopped panicking and stopped selling their stocks, the market wouldnt be dropping so far. Seems to me, if a person has some excess cash, it'd be a great time to pick up some good stocks because they'll be worth so much more in a bit of time when things settle down.

    Panic is half the problem. If we stop panicking, we've fixed half of it.

  114. MCH, the small investor did NOT start the crash back when Lehman, Merril, AIG all basically collapsed on the same weekend.

    This is not a normal downturn.

    This is a world wide interconnected downturn.

    No crash has never happened before like this.

    This is NOT fear mongering, as much as speaking the truth about what is coming our way.

    The American way of life involving extensive debt, over spending and living way beyond our means is over.

    Things are going to change and the sooner we get our collective minds around those changes, the sooner we can adapt what we are trying to do to those changes. Then the sooner the recovery we NEED to occur can occur, but the longer we cling to what we did the last three decades the longer this crisis clings to us.

    We have used two bubbles to create wealth and both have burst. The first wasn't as large as the second BUT the second had to include ways the mitigate the bursting of the first bubble.

    Trying to recreate the second or create a third bubble to mitigate this crisis will result is a much worse crisis.

    It's simple we can't inflate our way out through bubbles, they always burst and the results of them bursting is always worse then the conditions they were created to fix.

    And when a bubble bursts the over priced assets need to fall in price to their NON BUBBLE worth.

    Hence the cries against mark to market which is just setting values to the non bubble real worth.

    Since you say your a English major in college;

    try reading,

    Soros sees end of US-led globalized market system

    The Post-Binge World

    The Great Unwind

    Credit swaps dragged out of shadows

    Why there's a crisis -- and how to stop it

    The Party is Over

    Bigger and Bigger Challenges Would Greet Obama

    For Mike, you'll like this article;

    Balance sheet of the Federal Reserve

    Because it shows the enormous lengths the Fed combined with the Treas has already gone to try to stall this deleveraging of the risks so many took in the last 5-7 years ......

  115. New blog is up.
    Please leave comments there.
    Thank you.

    Fear is the cause of all our strife. Fear is "False Evidence Appearing Real."

  116. clif said...
    MCH, the small investor did NOT start the crash back when Lehman, Merril, AIG all basically collapsed on the same weekend.

    No one said it was just the "small investor" Clif.

    Thats your straw argument that you require to prop up your "sky is falling" tirades.

    In fact, you purposely ignore what I ACTUALLY said, in favor of your straw argument.

    What "I" said, was it was FOREIGN INVESTORS pulling their funds out of US Mortgage backed SECURITIES, which is precisely what it was.

    Please don't invent straw arguments to sell your fearmongering. At least not when addressing my arguments.

  117. Sorry bart but the only people we could even influence is the small investor,

    because hedge funds and other large financials use computer programs and high order math models to set their buy and sell orders, so arguing NOT to speak the truth at the moment because it causes panic is only effective IF your speaking of the small investor.

    NOT a straw argument but an intelligent deduction.