Monday, August 24, 2009

Dear President Obama: The Solution to Healthcare Reform


Most of us will do damn near anything to get out from under the thumbs of the multi-millionaire CEOs who are running our current insurance programs. Sign me up!

Which of these socialistic (socialism) programs should we eliminate?

This is Socialism: Police Force, Fire Dept., Military, Veterans Dept., Clean Water, Public Highways, Public Parks. Medicare, Social Security are all government run for the protection and and rights of the PEOPLE, who run the Government. Which one of these vital programs should we get rid of?

It is immoral and un-Christian to make a profit off of cancer, illness or basic health care. We are the only country in the world that does not take care of its people and puts corporate billionaires ahead of the middle class.


Did you know the billionaire insurance companies are PAYING PEOPLE TO PROTEST THE TRUTH AT THESE TOWNHALL MEETINGS? THEY ARE USING YOU TO DO THEIR LOBBYING!! And what I find quite disturbing, is they pay their CEOs $30-50 billion dollars a year in salaries.

You like Insurance socialism? You like Corporate welfare? Try reading the bill if you can read. Basic health care is a human right for every human being in our country.

"You can't even bring a glass bottle, pocket knife or nail clippers to a rock concert or on an airplane. Why are angry gun-carrying loonies allowed to show up at Health Care rallies with weapons and assault rifles?
This is a violation of our rights — of our children's right to feel safe. Your "right" to own a gun does not mean you can bring it to public events, or wear it the frightening thing hanging off your body, where any angry psycho, including yourself, can grab it. It's far too easy to use a gun on a human being. I am ashamed and embarrased to have these as my fellow Americans and everyone should be ashamed of the current Republican party, it's leaders and politicians for taking bribes and payments from the Big Insurance companies to DENY the middle class free basic health care and for condoning LIES, RACISM AND HATE-SPEAK. And for inflaming the angry mob into believing outrageous lies about our president who simply wants to help create a FREE HEALTH CARE system FOR THE working MIDDLE CLASS!!

What on earth is wrong with you people?

You can't be pro-life and against universal health care. If you are, then you are being brainwashed by liars. Fox "News" and Sean Hannity, Glen Beck, Bill O'Reilly and Rush Limbaugh take home *$45 million a year in salary. I never believed it could happen in America, that lies would be condoned on the public airwaves. These talk show hosts and pundits have to lie to keep the corporations that employ them happy.

This I know for the past 5 years, with every cell of my being, as a lifelong follower of Christ, the Great Peacemaker. For years I've been appalled at how you can call yourselves Christian when you leave out Christ! Is it because you don't realize the word "Christ" is the root of the word "Christianity" because the vowel sounds are different? I'm sorry I know I've used that joke ad nauseum, but I am seriously wondering where on earth right-wing fundamentalist "gun-loving" Christians think they are CHRISTIAN!!! Nowhere in any of my 7 Bibles does it say you are to throw stones, lie, cheat, steal, create fear, worship greed, despise the poor, hoard wealth, and kill thousands of our young troops in a war based on lies for oil! You are the pharisees, the very ones that crucified Christ. I am sick of being silent for fear of more death threats. You care only about the fetus but not about your fellow man, woman or child. At least the Republican politicians and anyone who listens naively to Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hannity or Glen Beck or Bill O'Reilly -- who all MAKE $45 MILLION A YEAR TO LIE TO YOU IN ORDER TO MAKE THE CORPORATIONS THAT HIRED THEM, RICH!

Dear President Obama: A Modest Medicare Proposal

by Thom Hartmann

Dear President Obama,

I understand you're thinking of dumping your "public option" because of all the demagoguery by Sarah Palin and Dick Armey and Newt Gingrich and their crowd on right-wing radio and Fox. Fine. Good idea, in fact.

Instead, let's make it simple. Please let us buy into Medicare.

It would be so easy. You don't have to reinvent the wheel with this so-called "public option" that's a whole new program from the ground up. Medicare already exists. It works. Some people will like it, others won't - just like the Post Office versus FedEx analogy you're so comfortable with.

Just pass a simple bill - it could probably be just a few lines, like when Medicare was expanded to include disabled people - that says that any American citizen can buy into the program at a rate to be set by the Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services (CMS) and the Department of Health and Human Services (HHS) which reflects the actual cost for us to buy into it.

So it's revenue neutral!

To make it available to people of low income, raise the rates slightly for all currently non-eligible people (like me - under 65) to cover the cost of below-200%-of-poverty people. Revenue neutral again.

Most of us will do damn near anything to get out from under the thumbs of the multi-millionaire CEOs who are running our current insurance programs. Sign me up!

This lets you blow up all the rumors about death panels and grandma and everything else: everybody knows what Medicare is. Those who scorn it can go with Blue Cross. Those who like it can buy into it. Simplicity itself.

Of course, we'd like a few fixes, like letting Medicare negotiate drug prices and filling some of the holes Republicans and AARP and the big insurance lobbyists have drilled into Medicare so people have to buy "supplemental" insurance, but that can wait for the second round. Let's get this done first.

Simple stuff. Medicare for anybody who wants it. Private health insurance for those who don't. Easy message. Even Max Baucus and Chuck Grassley can understand it. Sarah Palin can buy into it, or ignore it. No death panels, no granny plugs, nothing. Just a few sentences.

Replace the "you must be disabled or 65" with "here's what it'll cost if you want to buy in, and here's the sliding scale of subsidies we'll give you if you're poor, paid for by everybody else who's buying in." (You could roll back the Reagan tax cuts and make it all free, but that's another rant.)

We elected you because we expected you to have the courage of your convictions. Here's how. Not the "single payer Medicare for all" that many of us would prefer, but a simple, "Medicare for anybody who wants to buy in."


Thom Hartmann

Thom Hartmann (thom at is a Project Censored Award-winning New York Times best-selling author, and host of a nationally syndicated daily progressive talk program The Thom Hartmann His most recent books are "The Last Hours of Ancient Sunlight," "Unequal Protection: The Rise of Corporate Dominance and the Theft of Human Rights," "We The People: A Call To Take Back America," "What Would Jefferson Do?," "Screwed: The Undeclared War Against the Middle Class and What We Can Do About It," and "Cracking The Code: The Art and Science of Political Persuasion." His newest book is Threshold: The Crisis of Western Culture.

A message to the LIARS on Hate-Radio and at Town hall meetings:

How dare you lie to your listeners. These BLATANT lies have to stop. The Birthers and the Liars on Fox "News" -- Why are you allowed to lie for years about everything? You know the truth. You know you are being paid by wealthy insurance companies to defeat our chance for free and low cost health care. But you lie with every breath you take.

You are inciting people to violence, hate-speak and bringing assault weapons to Presidential rallies. This should be illegal. Now we demand stricter gun control! You people are denying me of my right to feel safe. This is more important than your right to flaunt you "guns and gun-rights" at a public rally on health care where children attend. We've had enough of you. You are un-American, self-serving, and have caused nothing but destruction.

After listening to Glen Beck, one man in PA murdered 3 Police officers in cold blood because he was all hyped up on FEAR. Guess who got him this way? Glen Beck kept screaming on his CNN TV show these kinds of LIES: "Obama's gonna take your guns!" WHERE DID HE GET THIS? WHY DID HE MAKE THIS UP? President Obama never said he was going to take away anyone's guns.

I can't even bring a glass bottle or nail clippers to a rock concert. Why are there violent right-wing racists allowed to show up at Health Care rallies with weapons? Huge assault rifles? I am ashamed and embarrased to have these as my fellow Americans and everyone should be ashamed of the Republican party for condoning LIES, RACISM AND HATE-SPEAK.

Now I know why I am no longer a Republican. Thank God. THere is nothing remotely Christian or moral about this current tribe.

To the HATE-RADIO right winge liars: BASIC HEALTH CARE is a human right. It should not be "for profit."

Why are you protesting against your own self-interests? Do you really like AIG and BIG INSURANCE SOCIALISM? You like the way they have jacked up your rates and denied you coverage? Why are the Big Insurance companies better at deciding your health care rather than YOU? GOVERNMENT IS THE PEOPLE. Medicare negotiates lower prices with Big Pharmaceutical firms.

I am sorry to be so outspoken, but we need to unite our country against the greed that is destroying us.


To those who brag about being right-wing terrorists: you spend trillions on war, on an illegal and horrifying invasion of Iraq based on lies for oil to profit BIG OIL. You destroyed millions of innocent Iraqi lives, children's lives -- and thousands of American troops lives. With your evil war, and these seeds you have sown, the result is over 30,000 maimed, injured American troops with the highest suicide rate of any returning military in any war AND YET -- yet you won't spend money on HEALTH CARE for your own people?



  1. No, Clif, Obama ISN'T a part of the media (though, clearly, he benefitted greatly from it). But he's obviously revulsed (as most Americans are) by the release of a man who cold-bloodedly participated in the killing of close to 300 people. Compassion, yes. Compassion for this guy, absolutely NOT.

  2. 300 people?

    Bush Cheney ET AL have the blood of hundreds of thousands on their hands,

    But you keep pushing the corporate owned MSM ginned up outrage of the week.

    Nice concern trolling;

  3. Not a supporter of Bush, Cheney, Clif. Strawman city. Concern trolling? I'm agreeing with the President on this one. The President did the RIGHT thing! And, really, do you consider the families a part of this ginned-up coverage, too?

  4. Seems your outrage at Scottish judge for releasing a PEON in the bombing, doesn't go to the person who orchestrated the bombing, and neither does John Mccain's outrage extend that far;

    John McCain Praises Libyan Leader Gaddafi


    McCain had a face-to-face meeting with Gaddafi, which he detailed on his Twitter page with the following message:

    Late evening with Col. Qadhafi at his "ranch" in Libya -- interesting meeting with an interesting man.

    Sorry like I said Corporate owned MSM ginning up the outrage at the release of a peon,

    While NOBODY questions the former republican candidate for president PRAISING the person who orchestrated and gave the order to bomb the airline.

    Cause that don't fit the meme that the MSM wants to push right now.

    Screech about a man who will be dead by Christmas, but NOT a peep about the person who is responsible for the original order.

    Typical double standard.

    Interesting to me.

  5. Gaddafi is a dirtbag. But he has been behaving (though, clearly, praising him wouldn't have been my priority).

  6. Gadaffi is the ONLY reason that jet got bombed, he was as ruthless as Saddam ever was.

    He did it for payback for Reagan bombing his house and killing one of his daughters.

    The motive that is generally attributed to Libya can be traced back to a series of military confrontations with the US Navy that took place in the 1980s in the Gulf of Sidra, the whole of which Libya claimed as its territorial waters. First, there was the Gulf of Sidra incident (1981) when two Libyan fighter aircraft were shot down. Then, two Libyan radio ships were sunk in the Gulf of Sidra. Later, on 23 March 1986 a Libyan Navy patrol boat was sunk in the Gulf of Sidra, followed by the sinking of another Libyan vessel on 25 March 1986. The Libyan leader, Muammar al-Gaddafi, was accused of retaliating to these sinkings by ordering the 5 April 1986 bombing of West Berlin nightclub, La Belle, that was frequented by U.S. soldiers and which killed three and injured 230.

    CIA's alleged interception of an incriminatory message from Libya to its embassy in East Berlin provided U.S. president Ronald Reagan with the justification for USAF warplanes to launch Operation El Dorado Canyon on 15 April 1986 from British bases[ —the first U.S. military strikes from Britain since World War II—against Tripoli and Benghazi in Libya. Among dozens of Libyan military and civilian casualties, the air strikes killed Hanna Gaddafi, a baby girl Gaddafi said he adopted. To avenge his daughter's death, Gaddafi is said to have sponsored the September 1986 hijacking of Pan Am Flight 73 in Karachi, Pakistan.

    Nice concern trolling there though,
    Screeching over the underling while excusing the real primary cause.

  7. Someone asked President Obama if he believed in Marxism.

    His reply was “Yes.”

    After the crowd recovered, the same person asked a follow-up question, something to the effect of “So you believe in the teachings of Karl Marx?”

    President Obama’s answer was “No, Groucho!”

  8. Punked,

    Billionaires for Wealthcare

    and didn't even realize it.

  9. The only reason you have a problem with this, Clif, is because it's me. If Lydia or Mike had voiced outrage over this dirtbag getting released, you wouldn't have batted an eye. And, no, he doesn't deserve to see the light of day - EVER.

  10. Nobody's excusing Gaddafi for anything, Clif. And what exactly are you suggesting here, that we should have invaded Lybia, that we should have tried harder to assassinate Gaddafi? I mean, come on. IF Reagan had gone to war with Lybia back in '81, you and the rest of your ilk would have crucified him (hell, I probably would have excoriated him, too). Look, this dirtbag was the only person we had in prison for this incident. To release him is an absolute slap in the face to the families of the loved ones. You do care about them, don't you, Clif?

  11. The only reason you have a problem with this, Clif, is because it's me.

    wrong as usual bozo.

  12. Sorry but having the losing republican presidential candidate from 2008 visit Qaddafi at the same time Scottish judges are releasing one of Qaddafi peons, seems to be sending a signal screeching about peons is OK but leave the REAL criminals like Qaddafi and Bush alone, which is Why Pfc England and Spc Graner went to prison, BUT Bush Cheney Rumsfeld Miller ET AL are still allowed to walk free.

    Or why they went after Lt Calley (who actually apologist for My Lai this week) but the actual criminals who ordered the attack on innocent civilians and free fire zones walked away scot free.

    Good job of concern trollin' again son.

  13. Calley apologizes for role in My Lai massacre

    After nearly 40 years of silence, convicted ex-Army officer says he's sorry

    'bout time.

  14. Preident Obama, Senator Schumer, Senator Leibermann, Senator Cardin, Senator Lugar - they all must be concern trolling with me/have gotten suckered big-time by the mainstream media, too. Man, Cliffy, are you ever an isolated boob on this one.

  15. Sorry, if I don't have the prerequisite outrage,

    but then again, I usually think for myself,

    YOU, it seems, not so much.

  16. And Ummm widdle will;

    Lockerbie Doubts

    Not everyone is absolutely sure he was guilty.

    Not that it matters to the ginned up corporate owned MSM.

    Or you.

  17. I'm thinking with the President on this one, Clif. That's a good thing, right? Not guilty? Wow, he must have been hanging out with O.J or something.. LOL Let me ask you somthing there, Cliffy. If they can prove that this release was somehow a part of some deal for oil, will you THEN say that it was a mistake?

  18. "I think that President Obama is WRONG on this one, Will." Can you say those words, Clif? I think it would be so refreshing to hear you say them.

  19. Not guilty? Wow, he must have been hanging out with O.J or something..

    Nice way to try to conflate a racially charged trial in the US with real problems many people have with the trial in Scotland circa 2001.

    Ignore the truth and no discussion of any of the relevant facts about that trial, just your normal ignorance and diatribes.

    BTW widdle will can't you just accept I don't give a rats ass what you think?

  20. "I think that President Obama is WRONG on this one, Will." Can you say those words, Clif? I think it would be so refreshing to hear you say them.

    Never said he was WRONG did I stupid

    I just have a different opinion, that doesn't make either President Obama or me wrong numbnuts.

    Just we seem to have differing opinions on something both the President and I are both powerless to legally do much about.

    Damn why can't you accept differing opinions with out demanding I condemn the president,

    I can.

  21. Looks like REAL grass root activity does pay off;

    as this Montanan press release attests.


    U.S. Senator Max Baucus has finally broken his silence regarding his personal position on including a public option in health care reform legislation. Last Monday night (8/17), in an unprecedented conference call to Montana Democratic central committee chairs, the powerful leader of the Senate Finance Committee told his strongest supporters that he supported a public option. While discussing the obstacles to getting a public option through the Senate, he assured his forty listeners, "I want a public option too!"

    The conference call was groundbreaking in that none of the recipients could ever remember this kind of call ever happening before. The teleconference was set up seemingly in reaction to rising discontent among the local Democratic leaders with the Senator's failure to take a clear position on the issue.

    The discussion, which became contentious and rancorous at times, also touched upon the wisdom of creating insurance cooperatives as an alternative to a public option.

    When several of the county chairs objected, commenting that they did not trust the health insurance companies to police themselves and limit their outrageous corporate profits, Baucus commented, "Neither do I."

    In the aftermath of the teleconference, a coalition of eighteen Montana counties in the Senator's home state decided to move forward with their plan to issue a Unified Statement accompanied by a joint press release. The statement sends a loud and clear message to their Senator: Any health care reform package coming out of his Senate Finance Committee must contain, at a minimum, a provision for a strong public option. The action is a show of unity not previously seen in Montana political history...


    A little pressure from his real constituents, the voters of Montana, and he starts calling for a public option.

    And Max Baucus states he don't trust the large insurance corporations.

    I wonder how Chuck Grassley is gonna deal with this one?

    I wonder if the insurance industry is gonna ask for their millions back?

    I wonder if the astroturf teabaggers are gonna realize America wants REAL health care reform not more of the same?

    I bet the corporate owned MSM down plays this one.

    I just hope he realizes he works for the voters not the insurance industry, or "big pharma".

    It looks like this just might not be over by a long shot.

  22. This is actually good news, to me, and for President Obama's hope for real health care reform.

    Hope the pressure for democrats to actually act LIKE democrats continues.

  23. The pressure NEEDS to continue ANY repug liar NEEDS to be challenged with the truth and ridiculed and marginalized as EXACTLY what they are a lying paid for shill, demagogue and propagandist of the corrupt insurance industry whose agenda is clearly aligned with the corporate robber barons and AGAINST the interests of the American people.

  24. The Dems NEED to stick together and any decent repugs NEED to choose the interests of the American people over the corporate robber barons.

  25.'ve been posting some GREAT information lately keep it up.

  26. Clif, I never asked you to condemn President Obama, just to say that you think he's wrong. I mean, come on, you absolutely NO problem telling other people that THEY'RE wrong.

  27. So, Clif, this Scottish system that you previously admonished me for not respecting - are you saying that this same court may have railroaded an innocent man? Interesting.

  28. Clif, I never asked you to condemn President Obama, just to say that you think he's wrong

    Sorry widdle will, BUT I really don't look to you for my opinions or how I express my opinions.

    Peddle your concerns elsewhere son.

  29. Can you say Reconciliation Voltron!!!!!!!!!

  30. According to Barnes and Nobles;

    Glen beck's new book cover

    It's real not a photo shop.

  31. Mike said...
    "Can you say Reconciliation Voltron!!!!!!!!!"

    Go for it Mikey!
    Own it.

  32. Not an onion article;

    Statehouse Insider: Gene saves the day for GOP

    Illinois Republicans are a patriotic bunch.

    They start their meetings with a recitation of the Pledge of Allegiance, the nation’s unofficial
    loyalty oath. And so it was last
    week when Republican Party leaders met at a Springfield hotel prior to attending Republican Day at the Illinois State Fair.

    Republican county chairmen (party leaders, not county board leaders) held a meeting and prepared to recite the pledge. Oops. There was no flag in the room for them to face while reciting. What to do?

    Why, call on a fellow named Gene to come to the rescue. Gene was wearing a shirt decked out in an American flag pattern. He came forward, and the group of assembled Republicans pledged allegiance to his shirt.

    You have to wonder how conservatives would have reacted had Democrats done the same thing.


    i pledge allegiance to the shirt

    nice improv ......

    BTW Gene's shirt is technically desecrating the flag. See section 8d of the Flag Code.

    §8. Respect for flag

    d. The flag should never be used as wearing apparel, bedding, or drapery. ……..

    So they pledged allegiance to some guy wearing a shirt who was desecrating the American Flag at the time …..


    Hey volty these ain't friends of yours by chance are they?

    To quote Matt Groening:

    "I plead alignment to the flakes of the untitled snakes of a merry cow;
    And to the Republicans, for which they scam;
    One nacho,
    With licorice and jugs of wine for owls."

    but remember;


  33. Top Ten Differences Between Bush & Obama First 7 Months

    Obama, unlike Bush:

    1. Has no plans to invade any new oil countries for Israel.
    2. Knows who president of Pakistan is
    3. Knows how to safely consume pretzels
    4. Does not take orders from his veep
    5. Not on vacation 40% of time
    6. Clears away Bush’s harm, rather than clearing brush on old pig farm
    7. Worried about 47 million uninsured, not about 47 thousand idle rich multi-millionaires
    8. Not removing oversight from bankers on theory that financiers would never steal from own bank!
    9. Does not believe US menaced by Gog and Magog
    10. Not ignoring threat of al-Qaeda

    H/T to Juan Cole

  34. Unfortunately (or fortunately, depending on your point of view), Clif, so, too, are there similarities; 1) "don't ask-don't tell", 2) rendition, 3) warrantless wire-tapping, 4) unlimited detention, 5) military tribunals, 6) a tendency to heave American troops into the middle of a sink-hole (let's face it here, he's going to have to cut quite a few deals with pigs for HIS surge to work, too), 7) nation-building, 8) deficit-spending (My God, on this one he's making Bush and Paulsen look like a couple of pikers), 9) bail-outs, 10) a tendency to ignore the immigration issue....Not exactly Bush 3 but, still.

  35. The Real Debate About Health Care

    By Dr Howard Dean

    While employers are guaranteed the right to purchase health insurance, the great majority of states -- which govern the individual insurance marketplace -- do not extend the same protection to Americans who buy individual insurance politics. In most states, "insurers can refuse to sell individuals policies based on their health, recreational activities, occupations, credit histories, and a variety of other factors" -- and state governments do little to stop them. As a recent Families USA report observed, "[States] are doing very little to provide basic protections for health care consumers and many are turned down from coverage or are charged unaffordable premiums or have their health claims wrongfully denied."

    Insurance companies earn enormous returns for their chairmen and shareholders, becoming successful by insuring only healthy people while rescinding coverage once a person becomes ill.

    More than 14 million Americans receive their health coverage on the individual market, but although these patients pay hefty premiums, only a fraction of the dollars are spent on providing actual care. According to the Congressional Budget Office (CBO), 29 percent of premium dollars in the individual insurance market go toward administrative costs; the average policyholder spends roughly $300 more on administrative costs each year than if he or she purchased coverage through a group policy.

    Meanwhile, medical loss ratios, an indicator of how much revenue insurance companies spend on care versus how much they keep as profits, have dropped precipitously in the last decade. That is, as more and more people have become uninsured or discovered that they don't have enough insurance to cover their medical expenses, insurers have grown richer.

    Much has been made of the 47 million Americans who don't have health insurance. But the healthcare reform debate should also focus on the fact that an estimated 25 million working-aged Americans have health insurance but still can't afford to see a doctor.

    The fact is, there is a huge debate about how much of our health insurance should be in government hands. But our real challenge is dealing with the extraordinary damage that the private health insurance system has done to countless Americans who thought they had health insurance, faithfully paying huge amounts of money into the system over many years, only to find that their insurance company refused to stand behind them when they needed it most.

    The real issues in the debate over healthcare reform is not whether or not we should have "socialized medicine." It's whether we should continue with the extraordinarily inefficient system that today features a private insurance industry that takes large amounts of money out of the healthcare system for shareholders, administrators, and executives while denying people the basic coverage they think they have paid for.

    So, the real debate about health care reform is not a debate about how large a role government should play. The real issue is: Should we give Americans under the age of sixty-five the same choice we give Americans over sixty-five? Should we give all Americans a choice of opting out of the private health insurance system and benefitting from a public health insurance plan?

  36. What is more important, the profits of a few wall street corporations or the health of the American people?

    To the obstructionists Wall Street profits it seems.

  37. WILL -- and I am not singling you out, as I didn't mean to lump you in the category eariler either.. BUT YOU SAID:

    8) deficit-spending (My God, on this one he's making Bush and Paulsen look like a couple of pikers)

    BUSH BANKRUPTED OUR NATION AND SPENT OVER A TRILLION DOLLARS ON AN ILLEGAL, DISHONEST, DEADLY, IMMORAL, EVIL WAR and killed millions of people with more military suicides each month than any other war.

    Do you see why you reap what you sow? Do you understand why we are in the poorhouse?

    Republicans spend trillions to destroy and kill. But they won't spend to save and create good health care for millions of uninsured Americans.


    PLEASE STOP TALKING about Obama's "spending" as if you can actually restore a country's middle class and economic structure and infrastructure and SAVE LIVES without spending!!!!

    Obama, in the face of the ACTUAL BANKING SYSTEM WHICH RUNS OUR WORLD, is at least trying to help the middle class. The Republicans and their corporate cronies created this mess by their evil principles and CORRUPT VALUES.

    Bush, Reaganomics, Phil Gramm, deregulation, credit default swaps, are all ways for the corporatocracy to swindle the American people.

    This has long been the republican agenda: to DESTROY GOVERNMENT AND PRIVATIZE EVERYTHING. That is why they campaign on an anti-government platform. They make SURE government fails when they are in office (FEMA, etc.)

    Republicans are interested in one thing; the rich getting richer and pretending that if you own stock, you all get to "pretend" you are one of the corporate owners.

    You can't break the laws of nature and succeed. They are spectacular at failure because they broke the laws of honesty, righteousness, the Golden Rule, the spiritual laws of abundance and taking care of their fellow man. The corporatists are not interested in the well-being of humans, only the profit of the corporation.

    The corporations own the Republican party and a few blue dog Dems and others I'm sure.

    That's why The Great Peacemaker was a BLEEDING HEART LIBERAL.

  38. Voltron said...
    Mike said...
    "Can you say Reconciliation Voltron!!!!!!!!!"

    Go for it Mikey!
    Own it."

    I hope they DO take ownership of health care just like they did with FDR and Social Security that way you repug IDIOTS will be shut out of power for DECADES just like you were after the Great Depression!

  39. Yeah Lydia spening TRILLIONs on treasonous wars based on lies and giving billions and trillions in corporate welfare to th wall street elites and super wealthy is great but helping the working class or poor is "socialism".........its high time these knuckle dragging liars and propagandists got bounced out of power just like they did after the Great Depression when they pulled the Obstructionist let the poor et cake routine.

  40. Guess your running out of LIES to peddle troll........better tell your masters to hurry up with some NEW tallking points......the BS you've been using for the last 70 years is getting old!

  41. Go for it being the Obstructionist party of "NO" Voltron.........tilt to the right and become MORE Conservative........I'd LOVE to see you clowns lose another 10 elections.

  42. Unfortunately (or fortunately, depending on your point of view), Clif, so, too, are there similarities;

    Well widdle one, they both occupied the office of the presidency, and of course are both men

    ..... 1) "don't ask-don't tell",

    On the list of things to do, but since the republicans handed him a crashed economy and two wars which the repubies screwed up by the numbers, I guess the president is prioritizing the issues.

    Nice evocation of two different political views that have little in common.

    2) rendition,

    So did Clinton, but not the ignorant way Bush and the stupid neo-cons did it,

    Obama is not allowing the Afghan warlords to sell their enemies nor Pakistanis to hand over people they got form money to be wasted away in Gitmo.

    Under Bush renditioned hundreds of people in eight years, under Obama ONE person, who plead guilty already. (Quite a few of the people bush ET Al renditioned, were later released with no trials at all.)

    I have no problem grabbing real terrorists who want to kill Americans before they act, but you i guess not so much....

    3) warrantless wire-tapping,

    Sorry but your a little off, Obama is NOT wiretapping in the way Bush did, he is however trying to protect the methods and means of how the US government wiretaps.

    4) unlimited detention,

    Sorry but since Bush ET Al screwed up so badly with the hundreds of people they rendered to Gitmo and other black sites THEN tortured some, we can't exactly use the evidence they have against the master mind of 9-11, so what do you propose?

    How do we deal with Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, Abd al-Rahim al-Nashiri, Ghassan Abdallah Ghazi Al Shirbi, Abu Zubaydah, among others?

    We already know they have admitted guilt, but have not been formally tried and convicted.

    Obama is trying to un-f*^k the Bush administration claims of that they could withhold all the protections of the Geneva Conventions to captives from the war on terror. I guess you want instantaneous miracles, but in real life that usually don't happen.

    5) military tribunals,

    The Military Commissions Act of 2006 mandated that Guantanamo captives were no longer entitled to access the US civil justice system, so unless you use a military tribunal type of trial, the ability of every person currently detained by the US will remain in limbo.

    So either is is LEGAL tribunals AUTHORIZED by an act of the US Congress or nothing, I guess you want nothing eh?

  43. 6) a tendency to heave American troops into the middle of a sink-hole (let's face it here, he's going to have to cut quite a few deals with pigs for HIS surge to work, too),

    Real good one here, Afghanistan was invaded by bush, but with out enough troops or equipment to actually accomplish the mission, because Bush Cheney Rumsfeld ET AL wanted to attack Iraq instead they created a looming fiasco, which has slowly but steadily gotten worse. so at this time we have two choices,

    Leave Afghanistan, and accept things will go badly for those we worked with, and the Taliban will return to total control, possibly with a return of al Qaeda, not to mention how that would destabilize Pakistan even further, the only Muslim country with nuclear weapons.

    Or we stay and try to un-f*&k the Bush-Cheney-Rumsfeld fiasco, they created to attack Iraq illegally.

    I guess you want to leave and just accept what ever happens. It is an opinion, however not a very realistic one from a national security view point considering what happened when Bush Sr cut and ran from Afghanistan after the collapse of the USSR there. It is one head in the sand view point on how to deal with the place Osama bin Laden was hiding while he orchestrated the 9-11 attacks.

    7) nation-building,.

    Nice open ended (RNC talking point) code word but no real info for what you actually mean here.

    You are a little light on specifics here as usual.

    8) deficit-spending (My God, on this one he's making Bush and Paulsen look like a couple of pikers),

    Lydia slapped you down quite good here,

    I leave you lying on the floor smarting from that widdle one .

    9) bail-outs,

    Let's see, Bush bailed out wall street on Paulsons say so.

    You can't be talking about the wall Street bailout.

    Obama did work to save the US domestic auto industry, however given the way it was structured, it definitely weren't a bail out in the sense of Paulson and Bush gave Wall Street.

    As part of the stimulus bill, Obama signed the bill to give a tax cut to the middle class, are you complaining about that one?

    You are a little light on specifics here as usual.

    10) a tendency to ignore the immigration issue....


    Obama pushes immigration bill

    Obama setting the priorities on immigration

    While Congress moves slowly on reform, the administration is making policy changes primarily aimed at illegal immigrants with criminal records and employers who hire undocumented workers.

    Obama Hones Immigration Policy

    The Obama administration is using its executive powers to change U.S. immigration policies and practices on a range of fronts, not waiting for efforts by Congress to tackle a broader overhaul of the system.

    Obama Vows to Focus on Borders

    President Obama, attending a North American summit with the leaders of Mexico and Canada, said Monday that his administration will pursue a comprehensive overhaul of the U.S. immigration system this year but that no action on legislation will happen before 2010.

    Lets see, legislation is what congress writes, and Obama only signs when congress sends him a completed bill, right?

    I think you might redirect your attack here to congress son.

    Not exactly Bush 3

    Not even close son.

    but, still. concern trollin' like you have all along attackin' Obama trying to make him out to be as bad as Bush was.

    Transparent as usual widdle will.

  44. Lydia, I vociferously opposed the Iraq War from day one. I didn't start to oppose it (ala Kerry, Clinton, Hagel, Biden, etc.) only when it started heading south. As for Obama's and the Democrat's stimulus plan, I guess that we can agree to disagree on that. I personally, instead of that 800 billion dollar Christmas tree, would have done three things; 1) a payroll tax holiday, 2) a PERMANENT middle-class tax cut, and 3) infrastructure repairs of every bridge under code from Connecticut to California. And I wouldn't have waited for the out-years to spend the money. I mean, come on, the recession will be over by the time we spend all of this money. And, then, boom, inflation. Face it, Lydia, there's fuzzy thinking on both sides of the aisle. And now Obama wants to send even MORE troops to Afghanistan. Incredible.

  45. Hey, Clif, on warrantless wiretapping, military tribunals (which I actually support, btw), rendition, unlimited detention, you might actually want to take all of that up with the ACLU. It doesn't sound like they're very persuaded by your spinning for Mr. Obama.

  46. Bush blew it in Afghanistan, Cliffy. If you're looking for an argument here, you had better look elsewhere. But the ship has sailed, good buddy. And, besides, name me one foreign power that's ever been able to pacify that particular hell-hole. Yes, we need to monitor Al Qaeda, blow up training facilities, etc.. But to put increasingly more and more of an American presence (insert nation-building here, the necessity to cut idiotic deals with "moderate" Taliban, etc.) into that region, it's insane. I'm consistent, Clif. I'm for a limited utilization of American military power. I don't give a damn if the President is Johnson, Nixon, Bush, or Obama. We need to be smart here, fellow, not partisan. P.S. Clif, your allies here are probably going to be McCain, Leibermann, Graham, etc.. Mine, on the other hand, will probably be Feingold, Kucinich, etc.. Talk about irony, huh?

  47. Sounds like Obama (JUST LIKE BUSH) is going for a comprehensive approach to immigration.

  48. Temporary tax cuts (as Obama clearly should have learned from Bush's stupidity) only balloon the deficit, Clif. People don't spend those monies, they save them. So, no, I DON'T like THOSE tax cuts.

  49. Ummm widdle will, trying to say we should not try to correct the bush mistakes and gross incompetence in Afghanistan is saying you really do not what the problem we created by invading Afghanistan fixed.

    I do not give a pink rats ass what others think, I don't hide my opinions like that.

    We invaded so we need to resolve it.

    If you wanna cut and run that is an option,

    If you just wanna keep the same number of troops and try to slog thru, that is also an option.

    Neither will improve the national security of the Unites States if we do.

    The decision to invade and be so incompetent and militarily naive about the way Bush-Cheney- Rumsfeld invaded to preserve their hoped for illegal invasion of Iraq is criminal, but they left us with the quagmire, in the same way Eisenhower allowed the Dulles brothers to f&@k up both Vietnam and Iran.

    Sorry but Colin Powell was right when he said the china shop rule applies, if we break it we OWN it,

    We broke Afghanistan, not by the invasion alone, but the incompetence the civilian heads of government did show from 2001-2008, not enough troops to secure the region nor actually defeat the Taliban.

    Sorry if ya don't like it, but we OWN the fiasco in Afghanistan thanks to the incompetence of the way the republicans wanted to "get Saddam" before they actually got the guys who actually attacked us on 9-11.

    They came to office to "get Saddam", Bin Laden and 9-11 was their way to ram their Iraq plans down our throats, which resulted in their creating a total fiasco in Afghanistan .......

    Obama is having to clean up this mess like he is trying to stabilize and rebuild the economy eight years of republican mismanagement created.

  50. Sounds like Obama (JUST LIKE BUSH) is going for a comprehensive approach to immigration.

    You want piece meal?

    Wanna bet they actually do different things with immigration reform even though you keep trying to equate the two of them for some reason... (nice concern trolling technique)

  51. And I really do not care if the ACLU doesn't like my opinions so your slimy attempt at diversion is noted, as your concern trolling has been.

  52. 1) a payroll tax holiday,

    Ahhh yes further destabilize social Security, Bush couldn't KILL IT so you clowns wanna under cut the funding so both it and Medicare/Medicaid goes belly up faster.

    2) a PERMANENT middle-class tax cut,.

    Needs to be done is a separate bill, (however aren't you one of the clowns decrying the deficiets?) one that has the time for real inputs not a stimulas idea, however you really don't have much to go on so you concern troll with what ya got eh son?

    Screech cut taxes, while at the same time screeching about the deficit, sorta the reich wing concern trolling that got us here in the first place don't ya think son?

    and 3) infrastructure repairs of every bridge under code from Connecticut to California..

    Nice idea, however there is much more infrastructure repairs then just bridges, which only affects a certain portion of the population,

    BTW fixing schools is as needed as bridges, and it will do double duty, help the kids who go to them receive a better education, help localities hamstrung with budget concerns of their own, and help future generations who are going to use those schools.

    But to actually achieve the needed stimulus the projects needed to be actually ready for work instead of surveying all the bridges THEN decided which ones need work.

    Obama's stimulas, plan shows more intelligence then your does, as usual.

    Nice try at attacking a complex stimulus bill many had their hands in creating, which BTW Louisiana wanted to ask for HIGH SPEED RAIL stimulus money for some high speed rail from Baton Rouge to New Orleans. But Bobby Jindal can't help his state with out looking like a hypocrite can he?

    And the state of Ohio is looking at putting passenger train service from Cleveland thru Columbus to Cincinnati with some of their stimulas money.

    Arnold Schwarzenegger submitted 42 applications for $1.1 billion in federal stimulus funds Monday to help pay for intercity rail projects,

    Rick Perry don't have bobby Jindals hypocrisy problem on taking stimulus money in Texas;

    Texas is proposing the “Texas T-Bone” that would connect DFW Airport with Waco, Temple, Austin and San Antonio, crossed by a leg from Killeen to Houston. The Texas High-Speed Rail and Transportation Corporation, a coalition of cities, counties and private-sector partners including major airlines, is floating this proposal. Ironically, the city of Waco isn’t a member of the coalition, but local officials are obviously pleased with the T-Bone plan.

    Neither does Gov walkin' de Appalachian trail Sanford;

    In North Carolina, state officials are teaming up with Virginia’s high speed rail folk to get the money focused on connecting Washington DC with Charlotte NC. Planning has been proceeding since the early 1990s for trains that could speed Raleigh travelers to Charlotte in a little over two hours, and to Washington, D.C., in less than four.

    Seems some republican governors say your fix bridges only, proposal is not too intelligent either.

    And using some money for schools seems to be working also.


    Documents that Dick Cheney had been begging the CIA to release don't actually show what Cheney claimed they would,

    that the Dickster thought he could get away with lying one more time.

  54. BTW widdle one, this article explain how different Obama and bush really are;

    In Case of Emergency

    Instead of political clowns like heck of a job brownie, we get competent people with years of experience.

    But then again Obama doesn't automatically think government is always the problem like the republican'ts do.

  55. 101, Clif. There ISN'T a military solution for Afghanistan. Have you not learned anything from Iraq, Vietnam, etc.? The Taliban will never , EVER, give up. And, seriously, the odds of that country being anything remotely resembling the way we want it to be are so frigging poor that it's not even worth talking about. Yes, I know that the Taliban gave sanctuary to Al Qaeda and, yes, we definitely needed to attack them. Hell, if Bush hadn't dropped the ball the way that HE did, maybe something good could have happened. But that time has clearly passed, Cliffy. Our best stategy at this time, in my opinion, is containment.

  56. My do you folks always take criticism of Obama as some sort of affirmation of Bush? Bush was an extremely poor president (maybe one of the 5 or 6 poorest EVER) who I don't think that anybody is defending (I don't even think that Volt liked Bush very much at the end). And now he's GONE, people. Maybe keep an eye on the current guy instead.

  57. A permanent middle class tax-cut would have stimulated the economy a whole hell of a lot better than that idiotic Pelosi penned stimulus package, my brother. That is for sure. Yes, Clif, I know that it's more than bridges. I was referring to infrastructure projects, bridges obviously being the most important in terms of safety.

  58. Our best stategy at this time, in my opinion, is containment.

    What in your words exactly is "containment"?

    1) How many troops, stationed where, doing what, do we use to "contain" the radical extremists who aided and abetted Osama bin Laden before and immediately after 9-11?

    2) Where and how do we station the forces and equipment to capture Osama bin Laden?

    Numbers of troops in both cases, and what exactly is their mission?

    You claim to know so much, put up or STFU

  59. Maybe keep an eye on the current guy instead..

    YOU are the clown constantly trying to conflate Bush with Obama claiming he is as bad, in your comparison while denying that is what you are doing, nice try at deflecting the TRUTH of your concern trolling here.

    Funny you totally fail to keep an eye on the actual members of the obstructionist party of NO the republican'ts, and the numerous false statements and ways of obstruction they use to try to stop Obama from cleaning up the mess of the worst president ever.

    Screech about o'Rielly and hannity once in a while now but NEVER call the republican't obstructionist politicians to task for their political activity.

  60. Typical concern trolling there also.

  61. A permanent middle class tax-cut would have stimulated the economy a whole hell of a lot better

    Wrong bozo, because it would have increased the deficit even more then it already has been, with out actually creating jobs like stimulus spending does during a recession. Bush cut taxes in 2001 and 2003 and squandered the surplus and pushed us from 5.3 trillion to over 10 trillion in debt with exactly the very idea you seem to be suggesting here.

    Tax cuts do NOT stimulate like spending in a downturn does, PROVED fact.

    Spending versus tax cuts

    by Paul Krugman

    Jeff Frankel says what I wanted to say about what we know so far about the impact of the stimulus:

    Martin Feldstein and others predicted that the tax-cut component of the 2009 fiscal stimulus package would have substantially less expansionary bang-for-the-buck than the spending component of the package, because much of the tax cut would be saved, as had been the case with the 2008 tax cut. (“Bang for the buck” in this case could be defined as demand stimulus divided by budget cost.) We knew this from Milton Friedman’s permanent income hypothesis, or even from good old Keynesian multiplier theory.

    And sure enough, that’s what’s happening.

    It’s worth emphasizing this point, because there’s been a lot of nonsense written about the issue. Take this conspiracy theorizing from Clive Crook:

    Politics more than economics guided the design of the first stimulus, after all. Democrats preferred public spending because they wanted to widen government’s role and repudiate the Republicans’ instinct to cut taxes regardless of the circumstances.

    Um, no. Democrats preferred spending because they feared, based on quite standard economics, that tax cuts would be ineffective. And so they have proved.


    Stimulus Reality: Spending Creates VASTLY More Jobs Than Tax Cuts

    And numbnuts nice try at blaming Nancy Pelosi who was reacting to demands of the obstructionist party of NO who were demanding MORE tax cuts to replace the more effective spending during a very severe recession for the stimulus,

    To wit;

    Republicans are pushing to reorient the legislation as much as possible to tax reduction.

    Which has already been proved to be much less effective at stimulus effects.

    Middle class tax cuts were pushed by;

    Rep. Eric Cantor, R-Va., and Rep. David Camp, R-Mich., Rep. Mike Pence, R-Ind., House Minority Leader John Boehner, Rep. Scott Garrett, R-N.J., Rep. Peter Roskam, R-Ill., among others as a replacement for stimulus spending.

    and now of course widdle will who seems quite partisan here.

    Stimulus spending which actually creates more jobs to stimulate the economy from the worst recession post WW2 created by republican economic policies.

    Nice to see you still push THE REPUBLICAN talking points in your concern trilling son.

  62. Funny how you NEVER back up your nefarious questionable claims with any facts ...... and end up getting shot down cause you as usual are wrong again.

  63. It wasn't Bush's tax-cuts, idiot. It was the stupid military adventurism and his creation of an entitlement program which he didn't finance. Stimulus programs? Japan pissed an entire decade away by engaging in such bullcrap.

  64. Republicans, Cliffy, are far more apt to give the upper class tax breaks (the yeoman's share, anyway). By middle class tax-cuts, I'm talking more about the same type that BILL CLINTON advocated during his 1992 campaign. Yeah, I'm the partisan idiot. LOL

  65. I hear what Feldstein is saying Cliffy. That's why I advocated that the tax-cuts be, hello, PERMANENT and not the bullcrap temporary ones that Bush and Obama put forward. Wow, yet another similarity. LOL

  66. It wasn't Bush's tax-cuts,

    Yes it was widdle one, want me to PROVE it?

    It was the stupid military adventurism and his creation of an entitlement program which he didn't finance.

    IE he cut taxes which means he didn't finance the government at the level he needed to, BEFORE he incurred even more expenses.

    You sorta undercut your concern trollin' in this way widdle one.

  67. 1) I never said that Obama was as bad as Bush (a partisan would say that Bush was BETTER!!!!!), only that I don't think that he's as great as you constantly make him out to be. 2) I monitor who's actually in power at the time. As you've so astutely said, Cliffy, the Republicans are completely marginalized.

  68. Funny you screech about middle class tax cuts just like;

    Rep. Eric Cantor, R-Va., and Rep. David Camp, R-Mich., Rep. Mike Pence, R-Ind., House Minority Leader John Boehner, Rep. Scott Garrett, R-N.J., Rep. Peter Roskam, R-Ill., among others did,

    ..... but you aren't talking about the same middle class?

    Interesting son.

  69. That's why I advocated that the tax-cuts be, hello, PERMANENT

    To further increase the deficit you screech about elsewhere,

    Interesting how disjointed your arguments really are.

  70. That's a fair point, Clif. He shouldn't have done both at the same time. Of course, we don't know how much revenue to the government increased because of the tax cuts.

  71. (a partisan would say that Bush was BETTER!!!!!),

    But a lying dishonest slimy concern troll would work VERY hard to equate the two ..... sounds just like what you have tried to do.

  72. I may NOT be talking about the same middle class as those you've just cited.

  73. I don't think that he's as great as you constantly make him out to be.

    Got a link to actually back up that distortion .... IE lie?

    Or is yer anus all ya really got as usual?

  74. I may NOT be talking about the same middle class as those you've just cited.

    Ummm widdle one, just how many middle classes do you thunk the United STates has, two?


    interesting how delusional your arguments have become.

  75. "I'm talking more about the same type that BILL CLINTON advocated during his 1992 campaign."

    Hey Will, were those tax cuts the ones he bit his finger and looked into the camera and said "I worked as hard as I could, but I just couldn't do it." about?

  76. Clif, if you honestly think that I've created this alter-ego, and have done so only to fool stooges like you and Bartlebee, I really don't know what to tell you here (especially since this persona existed BEFORE I EVEN KNOW YOU EXISTED!!!!). I'm sorry, I don't love Obama. I wish I did but I don't!

  77. As you've so astutely said, Cliffy, the Republicans are completely marginalized.

    I have?

    Actually I t5hink they are using every slimy disgusting trick to destroy the country after they did so much damage when they held power.

    Like you concern trolling using their talking points here.

  78. You NEVER criticize Obama, Clif. THAT'S my proof. Hey, Volt. Yeah, you're exactly right, he (Clinton) never actually DID follow through with that, did he? LOL

  79. Irrelevent I think is the word you've constantly spoken (about Republicans).

  80. You NEVER criticize Obama,

    Funny a couple of days ago you were claiming I had to tell him he was wrong, because i held a different opinion,

    get your lies straight son.

  81. Irrelevent I think is the word you've constantly spoken (about Republicans).

    Got a link to actually back up that distortion .... IE lie?

    Or is yer anus all ya really got as usual?

    because you keep claiming things BUT never prove them,

    I use links and proof.

  82. Look at the gutless inbred troll babbling about tax cuts..............havent we LEARNED over the last 8 years that tax cuts dont are capable of learning arent you troll?

  83. Thats it run away little troll cause you cant hang...........when your lies get exposed and discredited by facts and logical arguments.

  84. Mikey, you really gotta stop the self medication. It's rotting your brain, or what's left of it anyway.

  85. By middle class tax-cuts, I'm talking more about the same type that BILL CLINTON advocated during his 1992 campaign.

    Um widdle will, if ya could pull yer head outa yer anus long enuf, you might remember the 1992 campaign was more about the outa control deficits and total debt Reagan and Bush had run up, remember Perot ranting on and on about it?

    And when he got to office Clinton realized he had to try to fix the budget mess Reagan and Bush created,

    Just like Obama has to clean up the total economic fiasco the republican't and bush created this time.

  86. Will exactly what do YOU consider middle class?

  87. As far as "lies" or "learning" go Mikey, the treasury numbers are out there. I've posted them before.

    You can look 'em up yourself this time.

  88. Mikey, you really gotta stop the self medication. It's rotting your brain, or what's left of it anyway.

    Ahhh no facts, just a crusty style attack, when you know you can't argue the facts.

    Typical voltron, attack people when the facts are against his delusional world view.

  89. Widdle will, can you 'splain just how many middle classes exist?

  90. "Look at the gutless inbred troll babbling about tax cuts..."

    That didn't look like "Hello Volt, how are you tonight" to me Cliffy.

    So piss off.

  91. Or were ya typin' while stupid again son?

    ya gots lots of experience at doing that son.

  92. Projecting as USUAL I see Duncetron just like your inbred repug buddies with their Nazi talk and death panel BS.........when the TRUTH is we have death panels right now with the insurance companies denying coverage to as many as possible........oh and stupid the Nazi's were a a Right Wing organization that used fear mongering to seize power and push their political agenda EXACTLY like the Bush admin and the repugs do.

  93. Would it have been more polite if I'd just said "Hi pussy" and mentioned his family tree doesn't branch?

  94. So piss off.

    Widdle thin skinned three showers a day getting all hot and bothered again, how predictable.

  95. Would it have been more polite if I'd just said "Hi pussy" and mentioned his family tree doesn't branch?

    You really shouldn't talk about widdle will like that duncetron.

    BTW speakin' of yellow bellied cowards, made it to Iraq yet son?

  96. Well, have a nice evening ladies. Some of us actually WORK for a living...

  97. The CBO numbers have been out also and they say 2/3 of the cost of National Health Care could be paid for by elimating waste in the current health care system know the things that have allowed the health care companies to earn 400% higher profits at the expense of the working class.

  98. And some of us DONT work as slimy political operatives and paid blog trolls who spread lies and dispicable propaganda for the corporate fascists and Right wing terrorists!

  99. Better Run little troll some facts just came out..........facts to a repug troll are like holywater to a vampire.

  100. So widdle will is using an idea from the early primaries in 1992, which Clinton moved away from even before he got the nomination, let alone beat Bush to TRY but Fail to deflect the truth that he is using republican't talking points pushed hard by the party of NO members of congress.

    Can you say desperation and no real facts to back up his brain feces he spews here?

  101. Lydia's ABSOLUTELY right we're gonna reconcile your useless asses into irrelevance...........go put on a pointy dunce hat and go sit in the corner troll.........your lies are no good here.

  102. BTW speakin' of yellow bellied cowards, made it to Iraq yet son?

    Blogger Voltron said...

    Well, have a nice evening ladies. Some of us actually WORK for a living...

    Cuttin and runnin as usual from the fact you claimed you were going to Iraq, but never actually went.

    later gutless.

  103. You repug hippocrites and rejects dont seem to care too much that the insurance company death panels we have RIGHT NOW IN THE PRESENT are sentencing millions to death by denying health care to as MANY as possible to maximize profits............seems you would rather fear monger about what "MIGHT" be if the government took over health care rather that help stop the very thing you are spreading lies and fear about because you are bought and paid for by the special interests and insurance cronnies profitting off the backs of American citizens............their blood is on your hands.

  104. Clif, you never said that the Republicans were irrelevant? How 'bout when the Dems got 60 in the Senate? Seriouly, I don't keep a running tally of your comments. Yes, you had a different opinion than Obama but fell considerably short of criticizing the man.

  105. This comment has been removed by the author.

  106. Clif, I'll go with the sociological definition of middle-class, not the ones coming out of the DNC/RNC.

  107. Since when are middle class tax cuts Republican talking points, Clif? I thought that they were ALL ABOUT HELPING THE WEALTHY.

  108. So, Clinton was pandering to get elected (just like Tsongas accused him)? Interesting. And, really, Clif, didn't George Bush Sr. RAISE TAXES?

  109. Maybe it was Mike who said "irrelevant". 3 spots up he said "irrelevance".

  110. Since when are middle class tax cuts Republican talking points, Clif?

    Ummm stupid, since Rep. Eric Cantor, R-Va., and Rep. David Camp, R-Mich., Rep. Mike Pence, R-Ind., House Minority Leader John Boehner, Rep. Scott Garrett, R-N.J., Rep. Peter Roskam, R-Ill., among others were using that EXACT talking point to try to lower spending which has proved to really work well as a stimulus, and raise the amounts of tax cuts they were demanding in the stimulus bill they never voted for,

    they were all using that exact talking point this spring,

    Funny how you can remember a very early Clinton campaign idea, which he discarded BEFORE the convention , BUT can't remember the entire congressional republican't clown brigade pushing their supposed stimulus bill they released with out actually scoring it.

    Damn either you are intentionally ignoring the facts I provide or are even dumber then you play here.

    But nice try at concern trilling that talking point son.

  111. Clif, you're a nut. Goodnight, though.

  112. If these Republicans were advocating a permanent middle class tax-cut, then, yes, I agreed with them on this point. Shoot me!!

  113. So, Clinton was pandering to get elected (just like Tsongas accused him)? Interesting.

    Just like Bush did in 2000 with his LIE he was against nation building and over extending the troops, which is all he really did after Nov 2001.

  114. Clif, you never said that the Republicans were irrelevant?


    Maybe it was Mike who said "irrelevant".

    Do try to get your concern trollin' spin straight son.

    You wouldn't look so ignorant all the time then.

  115. Clif, I'll go with the sociological definition of middle-class, not the ones coming out of the DNC/RNC.

    What a freakin' cop out.

    Nice try to deflect the dumbest statement you made here tonight.


  116. Yes, you had a different opinion than Obama but fell considerably short of criticizing the man.

    Sorry if I don't try to live up to your delusional expectations widdle one.

    You will get over it someday,

    I already have.

  117. RIP Senator Kennedy!

  118. Again with the Bush nonsense. Of course Bush pandered. Duh! NOBODY'S SUPPORTING BUSH, Clif. But, please, continue to have this argument with your paranoid side. It's quite amusing.

  119. I just find it amusing that you're so psychologically incapable of criticizing the man. That's all. Must be one hell of a man-crush.

  120. To all of the brave gay Americans who want to serve in the military, take heart. President Obama has recently decided to put all of you onto his "to do" list. Just be a little bit more patient, that's all.

  121. Since when should civil rights be put on hold, Clif? Only when a Democrat gets elected? That sucks.

  122. Let me say something about Senator Kennedy. While he was clearly my least favorite of the 4 famous brothers, the man could absolutely get things done. And get this. On virtually every one of his major pieces of legislation, he was able to secure a Republican co-sponsor. I think that that, more than anything else, speaks volumes about his legislative abilities. I sincerely hope that he's in a better place now.

  123. Oh, Mike, I agree with you, btw. The Republican ARE irrelevant. They're way outnumbered in the House. And in the Senate the Dems have a fillibuster proof majority. (Short of the Whigs)You can't get a hell of a lot more "irrelevant" than that. The ONLY thing that these guys have going for them is that the Democrats are stumbling and bumbling, too. Other than that, though, ZIPPO!!

  124. Middle class? I would probably say somewhere between 50-100,000 dollars. Of course, a lot depends on how many kids you have and where you live. A family of 10 living in Manhattan, maybe I'd up it to $125-150,000 (the top end). It's clearly subjective, fellows. And that's why I said that my definition may in fact NOT coincide with that of the RNC.

  125. I'll say it fir ya widdle will

    RIP Ted Kennedy

  126. You don't have to completely agree with somebody to respect them. There's this recent footage of Senators Graham and McCain coming out a building. They spot Senator Kennedy in a car and stop dead in their tracks. They give him the thumbs up and then they saluted him. It was as moving a thing as I've seen in quite some time (they didn't know that they were being filmed). And it's the better side of politics, people - President Truman bringing Hoover back to the White House, etc..

  127. One year later, still racist and clueless to their very core.

  128. I don't know if anybody else saw this. But on Hardball this week, Con Coughlin of The Guardian reported that there was a letter from the British government to the Scottish courts, pressuring the Scots to release that Lockerbie terrorist. He also said that this may indeed have been due to the fact that Britain wants to get substantially more of its oil from the Gulf of Sidran. I'm going to be curious to see how accurate this story turns out to be. Until then, I'm going to try and keep my outrage in check.

  129. Ben Stein just stated on Faux News that the evidence that tax cuts spur economuc growth and increase tax revenues are EXTREMELY dubious.

  130. "Those without doubts are the crazy ones." Kurt Anderson New York Magazine (Today, on Reliable Sources)

  131. Japanese voters swept to power an untested centre-left party on Sunday in an electoral avalanche that ended more than half a century of almost unbroken conservative rule ....

    Well now we know why their economy has been in the dump for decades, the same reason ours crashed in Jan 2008

    Con-serva-tard rule.

    bad for people

    bad for the economy.

  132. One Caveat;

    Barack Obama got 3,528,633 citizens of the state of Texas who voted for him to be president of the United States.

    200 Morons can’t change that fact no matter how loud they try to scream their insanity ….

    Which is why they are doomed to fail.

    The teabaggers number in the hundreds or rarely in the low thousands, but even in Texas, Obama scored in the millions.

  133. 70 years ago today Germany under the trance of Adolph Hitler invaded Poland based on a lie and started World War Two in Europe.

    Seems like Bush, Cheney and the neo-cons used this brazen propaganda to get a war as the blueprint for their Iraqi war crimes.

  134. Clif and Mike - you are so right.

    Will - Please read the new article I"m posting. See what you guys think.

    Please pray for everyone in the path of California wildfires to be okay -- horses, Shambala Wild Animal Preserve (Tippi Hedren's place) and the senior citizen resorts.

    God Bless you all. Life is precious. Let's treat each other with dignity.

  135. New blog thread is up. This is an amazing article by a genius.


  136. Please leave comments on new thread.

    I'm interested also in your opinion on whether or not we'll win health care reform.