Thursday, January 25, 2007

When Elephants Jostle

Guest Blog by Carl

There's an old Swahili saying: "When two elephants jostle, that which is hurt is the grass."

Today in AmeJostling Elephantsrica, two elephants jostle: On the one hand, we have the hate-filled religious right, which has co-opted Christ's teachings and turned them into dispensationalist nonsense, somehow linking Christ's message of love and peace with the Old Testament's God of vengeance and retribution. On the other, we have the all-too-predictable backlash of the "God is dead (or at least, never lived)" rational atheist lavage of our brains. Left Behind v. Left Brain, if you will.

I, and millions, maybe tens of millions like me, are the grass which is hurt by all this. We are neither radically religious, but neither have we no faith in Our Lord. Lydia and I recognized this in each other about a year ago when I discovered her blog during the last Koufax Awards cycle (voting begins soon, folks! Vote for Lydia...and you can throw me a bone, too ;-) ), and she mine.

I reject the evangelical teachings not just of the Religious Right, but of my parents' church. However, I also reject the purely "reasoned" belief that this is all random clumpings of matter that scattered across the galaxy and somehow evolved into us and whomever else is out there.

That way denigrates the imagination, and if there is one thing we as humans should treasure above all else, the one thing that separates us from every other....well, almost every other...animal on the planet, it is our imagination. I hasten to note that recent published studies indicate that Bonobo monkeys are able to create music and not just repeat it. In fact, Peter Gabriel has taught some to play keyboards, and some chimpanzees can make compound vocalizations that seem to mean more than either individual vocalization in its own right.

But for the most part, we seem to be the only animal that can forward think, time-displace ourselves to the future, and even imagine an afterlife. If the universe were strictly rational and random, then what purpose would planning and imagination serve?

Comes now the elephant for the rest of us: Francis Collins is the director of the National Human Genome Research Project, and co-led the Human Genome Project (along with Eric Lander of MIT...sorry, I had to plug a classmate...)

Dr. Collins recently published a book The Language of God: A Scientist Presents Evidence for Belief, and sat down with science writer John Horgan for a discussion of theology, which was published in this month's National Geographic Magazine. I'm going to highlight some of the more cogent thoughts I read:

Horgan: The problem I have with miracles is not just that they violate what science tells us about how the world works. They also make God seem too capricious. For example, many people believe that if they pray hard enough God will intercede to heal them or a loved one. But does that mean that all those who don't get better aren't worthy?

Collins: In my own experience as a physician, I have not seen a miraculous healing, and I don't expect to see one. Also, prayer for me is not a way to manipulate God into doing what we want him to do. Prayer for me is much more a sense of trying to get into fellowship with God. I'm trying to figure out what I should be doing rather than telling Almighty God what he should be doing. Look at the Lord's Prayer. It says, "Thy will be done." It wasn't, "Our Father who art in Heaven, please get me a parking space."

As both a recipient and performer of miracles, I can appreciate Dr. Collins' statement: prayer isn't about finding a parking space. Prayer is about guidance to do His work.

Some might take issue with us on the left who are religious. All we really want is to live life in His grace, to live in peace with our neighbors, to do unto them that we would want done unto us, and to find our own salvation.

Like Dr. Collins, I don't think God watches us daily to keep tabs on us. What a waste of omnipotence that would be, and in fact, would speak to me of someone with a personality disorder like OCD.

What scares me about this world, and in particular this nation, is that (to flip to the other elephant), there are people who believe just that:
Collins: What faith has not been used by demagogues as a club over somebody's head? Whether it was the Inquisition or the Crusades on the one hand or the World Trade Center on the other? But we shouldn't judge the pure truths of faith by the way they are applied any more than we should judge the pure truth of love by an abusive marriage. We as children of God have been given by God this knowledge of right and wrong, this Moral Law, which I see as a particularly compelling signpost to his existence. But we also have this thing called free will, which we exercise all the time to break that law. We shouldn't blame faith for the ways people distort it and misuse it.
Don't blame faith for how people interpret it. In this country, people use faith almost like the red velvet rope at the door to a hot club. Wanna get in? Lemme see your faith. What? You're Jewish (or Muslim or atheist or Buddhist)? Sorry. You don't get in.

This is no different than what those who dropped planes on us on September 11 believe and I'll be damned but I thought we were better than this!

There's a lot more to this interview, but I don't want to ruin the surprises for you. Suffice it to say that DA Jostled Elephantr. Collins expresses in a few short answers what many of us have wrestled with our entire lives: why is there suffering? What is free will? Can you explain altruism without faith? Will we ever stop needing a God?

For me, God pushed the whole thing in motion and walked away for a sandwich, from time to time looking in on us to see if we're OK, and maybe throwing us a bone (or a Son) to remind us of who we are supposed to be.

God gave me a brain, true, but He also gave me a mind. He didn't ask me to be an automaton, but to find out that which I can about my world, and then find out what I can't know. If my beliefs are wrong, if I am condemned to die and spend eternity in hell, it seems to me that an awful lot of people (the Rapturists never talk about how Revelations really only expressly says 144,000 Jews, 12,000 from the Twelve Tribes, are going to heaven and everyone else is in deep trouble) are going to be by my side.


Or to sum up my feelings:

Henry Drummond: Then why did God plague us with the capacity to think? Mr. Brady, why do you deny the one thing that sets above the other animals? What other merit have we? The elephant is larger, the horse stronger and swifter, the butterfly more beautiful, the mosquito more prolific, even the sponge is more durable. Or does a sponge think?

Matthew Harrison Brady: I don't know. I'm a man, not a sponge!

Henry Drummond: Do you think a sponge thinks?

Matthew Harrison Brady: If the Lord wishes a sponge to think, it thinks!

Henry Drummond: Does a man have the same privilege as a sponge?

Matthew Harrison Brady: Of course!

Henry Drummond: Then this man wishes to have the same privilege of a sponge, he wishes to think!

The defense rests, Your Honor.

By CARL
Special Guest Blogger

-----------------------
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249 comments:

  1. Here, before anyone says anything, read this.

    Just read it.

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  2. Suicide car bombing kills 26 in Baghdad

    By BASSEM MROUE,
    Associated Press Writer
    Thu Jan 25, 11:03 PM ET
    BAGHDAD, Iraq

    Iraq's prime minister insisted Thursday there will be "no safe place in Iraq for terrorists," hours before a suicide car bombing killed at least 26 people in the Shiite neighborhood of Karradah and two rockets slammed into the heavy fortified Green Zone not far from the U.S. Embassy.

    Angry Karradah residents took to the streets chanting "We want the Sunnis out!" after the blast, the second suicide bombing in three days in the neighborhood. The explosion destroyed three minivans, 11 cars and dozens of shops, as well as the local post office, according to a resident.

    Seven charred bodies were visible in one of the vans, including that of a woman who was half out a window in an apparent attempt to escape the inferno. Another women dressed in black was seen screaming in front of her son's shop, where he was killed. Ambulances raced from the scene, at least one with the back door still open and bodies stacked in the back.

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  3. Oh yea, 20,000 more troops oughta do the job...


    :|

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  4. This is an excellent peice Carl. I agree with so many points, particularly the idea that fundamentalism is not just reserved for the Muslims.

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  5. Excellent article Carl, it reminds me a lot of the tone of last Winter When Lydia first started the blog!

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  6. Great article Carl!!

    Very well put, and I agree. I have to say I also agree with the Heidelberg theory: that the observation of an object changes the object.

    Our beliefs create our reality, so we have to focus on the beatiful, the good and the true.

    That's where "miracles" happen, which are really just God's natural laws.

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  7. Science proves God, I've always said this. Einstein was on the verge of taking that leap with his unified field theory. He stopped just short of figuring out that love, spirit is the field.

    This scientist in Carl's article, Francis Collins, has never experienced healing miracles. But thousands of people are experiencing these everyday. I wonder why no one ever interviews a Christian Scientist, the most cutting edge, ahead-of-it's time metaphysics based on Christ's actual healing power - which we are all supposed to be doing.

    In Christian Science, cancer, arthritis, depression, even broken bones are miraculously healed, and I've had countless healings such as these. In parts of Africa they are experiencing the most amazing healings possible.

    In the old days, narrow-minded naysayers thought "you couldn't go to doctors". But it's not a religion, it's the absolute Christ healing power.

    Wayne Dyer, "The Secret", and "What the Bleep" all espouse similar ideas, but Mary Baker Eddy brought this amazing way fo tapping into our healing power before anyone else, and she explained how it works.
    Einstein attended lectures in New York City, and declared that if the world knew what was possible, they would never look back.

    Most people are mired in fundamentalist, materialistic thought and completely miss the unlimited power inside them.

    Check out www.spirituality.com if you really need prayer help. Type in anything you need help with and read about true prayer miracles.

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  8. C ray nagin for prez in 08'.

    He's someone you'll like. Better than Hillary the bulldyke.

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  9. This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

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  10. Goodmorning Batworfeus!! LOL

    Carl, great post. The one thing I most adore about being a liberal is being able to think for myself. I watch the neocons online spouting the same talking points as their right wing radio/tv hosts everyday. It's really sad.

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  11. Al Gore for prez in 2008! Or...Shapton, Kucinich, Feingold (yes, he's out but let's have him back please...oh that's right. He's working hard on impeaching the whole White House. Love him for that!), and Wesley Clark are also my picks.

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  12. kay what about a Nagin/Shapton ticket?

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  13. Kay, yes that's what I love about being a liberal too! We are able to see all points of view and reason things out. We are not authoritarians, nor are we robots who goosestep to the Fuhrer...

    But it's so strange that right-wing talk radio is still able to brainwash people. Several hosts are constantly alternating Obama with Osama.. and bashing HIlary.

    Gore and John Edwards I think have the best chance of actually winning.

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  14. Saw a special on our troops in the MASH units, being operated on in Iraq. One female sargeant had lost a leg. Others had shrapnel and unbelievable damage to their bodies, never seen before in any other war.

    How can any sane human being put one more of our troops into this "grinder" as Hagel said.

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  15. Anonymous6:35 AM

    Wonderful post, Carl. I believe there are way more Christians in the "New Testamant Love" camp than the world thinks, because we just don't make the noise that either of your elephants make.

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  16. Nice graphic on the post, Worf! Thanks for posting it, and thanks, Lydia for hosting a l'il old parasite like me...

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  17. Poor "L'il" Willie....all that pent up lust and no man around to release it...

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  18. Lydia,

    The power of the mind, the power of intention, are all verifiable phenomenon.

    Wait until I post about the snowflakes... :-)

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  19. Lydia,

    About right wing talk and brainwashing.

    It still goes on, of course, but there are fewer brains being subjected to it. That's a start.

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  20. Junk yard Willie, you do know that Ray Nagin was a republican and switched parties to get elected for his first term don't you?

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  21. Lydia, I read an article online this morning about two buses blowing up in Iraq and witnesses saying they saw some of the people in the buses alive, in agony, and struggling to get out before they died.

    Like you said, how can anyone do something like that to another human being and why is it we have a president who can't understand this concept and who can't understand what he has caused and created?!! Disgusting. Shameful and immoral what George Bush has done.

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  22. kay c ray nagin SAVED HIS CITY, AND FOUGHT AGAINST BUSH AND HIS MEN TO TURN LOISIANA INTO A RED STATE.

    NAGIN AND SHARPTON HAVE THE FIRE IN THE BELLY TO BE PREZ.

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  23. Miss Cellania you are so right. In fact, anyone who defames the term "Christian" by declaring they are going to kill ANYONE, even Sadaam Hussein.. or declaring they are going to start a war, invasion or "preemptive stirke" cannot possibly know anything about the Great Peacemaker's teachings.

    To announce we are out to kill people, is antithetical to Christ's teachings! What are they, nuts?

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  24. Thank you Kay for the info. Isn't it strange that you and I are attacked for espousing the most loving values? When we merely confront them with their hypocrisy, they declare we undermining American values.

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  25. "L'il" Willie...

    You're overcompensating with your huge posts and capital letters.

    Try a penis pump. You'll feel better about yourself.

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  26. Junk Yard Willie said...
    NAGIN AND SHARPTON HAVE THE FIRE IN THE BELLY TO BE PREZ.


    Are you sure you're not feeling heartburn from the nacho cheese Doritos you're eating in your basement?

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  27. Carl, as usual, a great piece.
    I think I will always be on the adamant other side of the religion/God debate. However, I do find pockets of spirituality in my existence that leave me longing for more. Whether the 'more' is God or not, is something I'll eventually discover or realize. I think you and I will probably always disagree on this particular topic.
    I did read the article in National Geographic as you recommended... that was a good read and I enjoyed it... Probably the first and most reasoned approach to the topic I've ever read. Collins' comments about "What faith has not been used..." stuck out immediately. I substituted 'religious organization' for 'faith' in his statement and in your comment in order for it to sit right with me.
    This topic is, and always will be, a an interesting topic that I will continue to explore... not so much for debunking but more for an understanding of why people believe and getting inside someone's head. I blame Euthyphro. heh.
    ***
    And, Lydia, I enjoy reading your blog. I must say that the comments section is always a lively joint.

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  28. Targa,

    The Euthyphro question was a non-starter for me, and I demolished my intro philo professor with this simple observation:

    Both Plato and Euthyphro were wrong: piety isn't loved by the gods because it's pious. It's loved by the gods because it is right.

    I couldn't believe it when he hadn't heard that interpretation. This was a professor with thirty years' teaching experience and about as many philosophy books.

    Once you get that sorted, the rest of the pamphlet is meaningless.

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  29. Targa, thanks for your nice and insightful comment.
    xo

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  30. An excellent article. You sum up my own religious leanings. I think that atheism requires more faith than belief, but I almost shudder to think of myself as Christian, because the Pharisees and Saducees that Jesus so strongly opposed have taken over the public face of Christianity.

    PS, I found you at Larry's place.

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  31. Junk Yard Willie. We do'nt need Ray Nagins entire wiki entry you schmuck.

    Post a link next time.

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  32. Did that guy just call Hillary a bulldyke?

    Great post, Carl. I loved it!

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  33. Tomcat said...

    but I almost shudder to think of myself as Christian, because the Pharisees and Saducees that Jesus so strongly opposed have taken over the public face of Christianity.


    Amen.

    Lydia and I have been saying the exact same thing for a long time now. In fact, Lydia wrote a thread about the "new Pharisees".

    These guys pray to be heard by men. They love to be seen in the high places and in the churches, to be honored for their piety.

    They are truly like Whited Sepelcures, all nice and clean on the outside, but inside, full of DEAD MENS BONES.

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  34. Worf and TomCat,

    Yeah, but why don't they see it? Why don't these modern-day pharisees see themselves in Christ's teachings? Hard not to miss your own face in the gilded mirrors.

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  35. Ooooh, Targa got a kiss and a hug from Lydia Cornell!

    I'm sooooooooooooooo jealous!

    :-)

    Lydia, you'll have to forgive us. I run with a weird crowd. I think you'll like them, tho

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  36. Tom,

    My suspicion is that more and more people like you, Lydia, and I will start to come out of the woodwork.

    I think of the last twelve years in America as a big monsoon of on-your-sleeve Christianity. Now the people who live it in their hearts will realize it's safe to come out again.

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  37. Lydia Cornell said...
    Why don't these modern-day pharisees see themselves in Christ's teachings? Hard not to miss your own face in the gilded mirrors.


    Ever try to see past the log in your own eye? That's the challenge for these folks.

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  38. AL Sharpton for president!!!!!!!!

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  39. Bush: 'I'm the decision-maker' on Iraq

    JENNIFER LOVEN,
    Associated Press Writer
    46 minutes ago
    WASHINGTON -

    President Bush, on a collision course with Congress over Iraq, said Friday "I'm the decision-maker" about sending more troops to the war. He challenged skeptical lawmakers not to prematurely condemn his buildup.

    "I've picked the plan that I think is most likely to succeed," Bush said in an Oval Office meeting with senior military advisers.

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  40. "L'il" Willie, now you're overcompensating for your lack of penis size with exclamation points?

    Seriously, dude. Penis pump. Buy one.

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  41. BATWORFEUS said...
    Bush: 'I'm the decision-maker' on Iraq


    Is that like "Mentos, the Fresh Maker"? Only we use the middle finger?

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  42. This comment has been removed by the author.

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  43. All right I think its pass junk yard willy's bed time.

    You've said enough for one day jackass.

    You're done.

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  44. Thanks, Worf, I was getting worried he might, you know, explode.

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  45. The Lap Dog Licks Bush's Chin

    DAVOS, Switzerland - British Prime Minister Tony Blair on Friday offered strong support for President Bush's new plan in Iraq and said he believes the Iraqi prime minister can meet the benchmarks the United States has set.

    Yes. That's why he's withdrawing his own troops...

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  46. Junk Yard willie is rusty shackleturd incognito.

    He's too afraid to post under his own handle now that everyone knows he really isn't a vegas pit boss, but a snot nosed punk living in his mommy's basement.

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  47. He comes in, lurks a little, then posts some foul garbage.

    If he lived in Afghanistan he would be Taliban.

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  48. "L'il" Willie is "Dusty" Springfield?

    Aw, Dusty, I'm so disappointed you didn't sing your big hit like I asked you to the other day!

    o/~ You don't own me,
    I'm not just one of your many toys
    You don't own me,
    don't say I can't go with other boys o/~

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  49. Yea. He's just too embarrased over being found out to be a lying little punk.

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  50. Darn.

    I'm surprised it embarasses him. It doesn't embarass Bush!

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  51. Maybe he should change his nym to "Taliban Willie"?

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  52. Who called Hillary a what?? Oh Geez!

    Great article, Carl. As per usual.

    Hi Lydia! I've been here quite a bit but haven't commented. Seems the "boys" spar a bit over here.

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  53. Well "who me", we get a lot of right wing trolls over here, for some odd reason.


    But this is a progressive blog but we welcome all voices who have something real to say. That generosity of course is abused by the right wing on a daily basis. Like they abuse everything they're given.

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  54. I have to admit, seeing the right wing in here, and listening to what most of them have to say has actually strengthened my conviction that they are indeed, F.U.B.A.R.

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  55. Carl said...
    Maybe he should change his nym to "Taliban Willie"?


    Taliban Willie it is then.

    Man Law?

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  56. Lydia Cornell said...
    Hard not to miss your own face in the gilded mirrors


    I don't know.

    Maybe its fun to be a Pharisee.

    :|

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  57. Give 'em hell, fellas. I suppose you won't need any of us to come to your rescue! We'll just enjoy the read.

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  58. We can use all the help we can get.

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  59. Well, I normally come in peace. Unless someone REALLY pisses me off. Then the games begin...

    But I think you all can hold your own. I look forward to it.

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  60. And there folks, you have Johnny Moo Moo, in all his glory.





    Any questions?

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  61. Compare these comments to the photo's he provided of himself to complete the picture.

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  62. Who, Me? said...
    Hi Lydia! I've been here quite a bit but haven't commented. Seems the "boys" spar a bit over here.

    Thanks Who, I'm glad you were brave enough to visit.

    The dialogue is so wonderfully highbrow. The word sphincter used by Moo Moo, for example.

    Must we be subjected to this?

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  63. JOHNNY - CEASE AND DESIST. THIS IS DISGUSTING.

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  64. I deleted the worst of Moo Moo's comments.

    My apologies to my readers and innocent bystanders.

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  65. Thanks Lydia, you can call me Jacq. Keep the posts coming. They're great.

    Batworfeus, as you were.

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  66. Are you threatening me?

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  67. Lydia, I suppose that since you get so many comments from all sorts of characters, it would be a chore to use the comment moderator. Comments from cretins aren't permitted on my blog.

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  68. Johnny why dont you get lost you are a retarded spamming idiot that no one likes or respects you add nothing of value!

    ReplyDelete
  69. Gates: Iraq resolution helps enemy
    At first Pentagon press conference, he also talks of speeding deployment
    AP Updated: 2:58 p.m. PT Jan 26, 2007
    WASHINGTON - Defense Secretary Robert Gates said Friday that a congressional resolution opposing President Bush’s troop buildup in Iraq amounts to undercutting U.S. commanders in a way that “emboldens the enemy.”
    He also said the Pentagon was now studying whether it could accelerate the deployment of the five additional Army brigades that it has announced will be sent to Baghdad between now and May to bolster security in the capital.
    At his first Pentagon news conference since taking office, Gates was asked his reaction to the debate in Congress over the effect of such a nonbinding resolution. “It’s pretty clear that a resolution that in effect says that the general going out to take command of the arena shouldn’t have the resources he thinks he needs to be successful certainly emboldens the enemy and our adversaries,” he said.

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  70. Looks like Gates is another "Smear and Fear" Nazi repug claiming anyone who doesnt blindly goosestep to what the Reich Wing wants is "ENBOLDENING" THE ENEMY.

    We need to get rid of this reich wing shill as well, I gave him the benefit of the doubt, all he is trying to do is buy time for his Master GWB.

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  71. Thanks Who — for the sigh.

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  72. Lydia, I have seen you in these comments, and wonder how on earth you have such patience. Although, I'm sure it runs out!

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  73. This guy needs an enema. AND an exorcism!!!

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  74. Alright Johnny,




    I just wanted to let out enough leash for you to hang yourself with.


    You're done for the night.

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  75. Miracles DO happen...

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  76. This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

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  77. Gee.


    Where'd moo mook go?

    :|

    It was like he was never here.

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  78. Why waste your keystrokes Lydia?

    He's a waste of space.

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  79. An enema and an exorcism! That is pretty funny!!

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  80. Ah...The Sounds of Silence... Or at the very least, meaningful conversation.

    Barwarfeus: Who? Who was just here?

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  81. I don't know. It sounded like a rat.

    ReplyDelete
  82. Fortunately although he has no voice in here now, thanks to being a jerk, his words are stored forever elsewhere, for safe keeping.

    Nothing he says goes undocumented.

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  83. See?


    Like he was never here.


    :D

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  84. Batworfeus: Dang keyboard. Still not used to it.

    Anywho...

    QUICK, get the rat poison,
    IT'S B*A*C*K!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    ReplyDelete
  85. You killed it! HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!

    Or WAIT!!!!

    ANOTHER MIRACLE????!!!

    ReplyDelete
  86. Silly Rabbit, Trix are for kids...

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  87. Blogger wannabes, so sad. Get a real ident, a real profile, so you can BE SEEN...

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  88. You don't know who I am either, because I sure as hell ain't no dude. I have more balls than you'll EVER HAVE! Go stalk someone else Arthur Spamzerlli!!!

    MOO MOO GO BACK TO THE PASTURE YOU COW!!

    HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!

    ReplyDelete
  89. Johnny the troll said "worf you pussy.....calling for reinforcements........very well, I.ll handle you both."

    Wow your mouth is even bigger than I thought.

    ReplyDelete
  90. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHA!!!!!

    ReplyDelete
  91. I would make the loser just as irrelevant and impotent here as it is in real life!

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  92. The big bad Johnny troll's deluded schizophenic way of defending minors is to post vulgar insulting posts and spam a blog.

    I willing to bet the crap you are posting is far worse than anything that might have been said, regardless if your if your daughter is that fragile Johnny troll she should not be reading political blogs and if she isnt reading the blog then you should not be repeating obscenities to your teenage daughter.

    Once again your judgement and parenting skills are piss poor my schizophrenic friend.

    BTW, enjoy having your posts disapear like farts in the wind.

    ReplyDelete
  93. Hey Stupid I doubt the extradite people across international borders for insults on a blog otherwise you'd allready be rotting in Gitmo being tortured while you await a military tribunal.

    ReplyDelete
  94. Your the loser having your schizophenic troll rantings disapear not I, aqnd theres nothing you can do about it!

    you cant silence me and you cant lock me out, your just as irrelevant and impotent herte as in real life.

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  95. He never learns, does he?

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  96. Moo Moo the COW is calling a WOMAN a FAG???

    GET A CLUE!

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  97. Worf: We need rat poison again. Unless you want to do the exorcism. It's your call.

    ReplyDelete
  98. Good job Worf and Who me, i'll be back in a few, i'm gonna grab a quick bite.

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  99. The only stalker is you Troll Troll!

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  100. MooMoo,

    Why does your daughter cower so much in your presence?

    How often do you beat her?

    Guys, MooMoo is Exhibit A of a magical thinking neo-con who never grew up and hopes things will "somehow" get better, rather than solving things on his own.

    Just look at his emoticon. It says it all.

    Johnny, you want a piece of me, come to my blog to get it. Leave Lydia's alone, mmmmmmK?

    Or aren't you man enough for even that?

    ReplyDelete
  101. Oh...and how much did it cost to rent that hooker for the week in Mexico?

    I bet you overpaid...

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  102. Who! Welcome aboard!

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  103. Carl, I was wondering the same thing? Why stalk at Lydia's blog?

    ReplyDelete
  104. Johnny moo moo said...
    worf you pussy.....calling for reinforcements........very well, I.ll handle you both.


    MooMoo's doing multiples?

    I claim the mouth. He's got such a purty mouth....

    ReplyDelete
  105. Who,

    Because Johnny MooMoo has a, um, *thing* for Lydia...e-mail me and we'll talk.

    ReplyDelete
  106. Get a life, dude. Seriously.

    This is the real JACQ by the way.

    ReplyDelete
  107. BATWORFEUS said...
    Carl said...
    Maybe he should change his nym to "Taliban Willie"?


    Taliban Willie it is then.

    Man Law?


    *hides glass of Pinot Grigio*

    *runs to fridge for Miller*

    Man law!

    ReplyDelete
  108. Johnny moo moo said...
    Carl

    Really....is that the best you have against Moo Moo? Your daughters plain ol ugly period...........no discussion cat banger!


    Who said ugly?

    I said terrified.

    Didn't they teach you how to read in Canada?

    I know your dollar is worth shit, MooMoo, but cmon, surely your education system is worth money than your loonie...

    ReplyDelete
  109. .Johnny moo moo said...
    Carl stalks children and Lydia supports him.


    Considering you had to rent-a-chick for your vacation, the one you took your daughter on....

    ReplyDelete
  110. Jacq,

    You got nothing to prove to this little boy.

    ReplyDelete
  111. Johnny moo moo said...
    Ok, Carl, Fagboy NutLicker....

    You and I alone minor stalker?


    Say, aren't you married? Why did you need another woman down there on vacation, anyway?

    And answer me this: why was your daughter so scared to be around you? She looked really happy in every picture, except the ones you were in.

    Plus, she was wearing a lot more clothes than everyone else...was she hiding the scars and bruises?

    ReplyDelete
  112. And neither do you, Carl.

    ReplyDelete
  113. Funny, I'm seeing letters, but they make no sense to me...MooMoo, are you still on your meds or did they take you off them?

    This is the best you can do, MooMoo? Make stories up about people?

    How about your truths, MooMoo....you know, how like you've been harassing Lydia with you-know-who's ex wife?

    ReplyDelete
  114. Carl

    I am your Master......period! You answer to me sack sucker.....got it fgagboy....

    ReplyDelete
  115. Well, this is a different venue, Herr Katzen. I wish you luck.

    ReplyDelete
  116. Ooooh, MooMoo...which comment of mine got under your skin?

    Was it the one about you smacking your daughter around?

    The rent-a-date to cheat on your wife?

    The fact that your a fat ugly man who had to pay for sex?

    Which was it? This is for posterity and scientific research, so do please try to be accurate...

    ReplyDelete
  117. No Carl, the hippocritical schizo always atacks others for being married when he himself is not married he;s an incoherent freakl!

    ReplyDelete
  118. Carl isnt it fitting this wacco's dollar is called the loonie.

    ReplyDelete
  119. Anybody catch on the news this evening that Karl Rove and Dan Bartlett have been subpoenaed for the Libby trial? By Libby?

    ReplyDelete
  120. Frederick I see you are a Floyd fan

    Outstanding.

    Wish you were here.

    ;)

    ReplyDelete
  121. Mike,

    Don't be so sure he's not married.

    :-)

    ReplyDelete
  122. Worf, that's awesome. I have been saying the same thing for a long time now as well. "Full of dead mens' bones" has long been one of my favorite passages.

    Lydia, you ask why they don't see it. For the rank and file, I think it's partially a developmental issue, a sort of.... spiritual co-dependence. When growing up, the human brain does not develop past the concrete stage. Children see things as absolutes, right or wrong, black or white. From eleven on normal development includes relative thinking, the ability so see gray areas, and the ability to self-nurture. But some people never learn relative thinking, to see gray, or to self nurture. To them everything is absolute. Through, misattribution error, they credit God for all their good emotions and the devil or the world for all their bad ones, so they can't take responsibility for owning their own emotions. They don't learn to see gray or to self-nurture, so they demand nurture from God and from authority figures. In short most of the rank and file of the religious right is still stuck at ten years old, developmentally. The other half of the co-dependence is the leadership, the Pat Robertsons who become the authority figures, enable the simplistic world view, and provide nurture of sorts, but for a price.
    (Thanks for your comment on my blog. Did you know that for some reason neither your RSS 2.0 nor your Atom 0.3 feed will allow subscription in IE7? Not a complaint, just a FYI.)

    Carl, I think you are right. Although I'm new to blogging (only one year total and three months on blogger)I've been a long time online opponent of the Bush regime and the religious right and have been branded a traitor in and thrown out of several MSN groups for it. You, Lydia and I are patriots, in the tradition of Henry David Thoreau, because we serve the state with our consciences and therefor oppose it when its leaders contradict the values of liberty and justice on which our nation was founded. Now that the neocons and theocons have exposed their own duplicity and inhumanity, genuine Christians will start to come out, just as you say.

    ReplyDelete
  123. But jiust like I posted earlier it appears Gates is another Neo Con shill buying time for his master, I was going to give him the benefit of the doubt till today when he started spewing Karl Roves BS rhetoric and saying anyone who doesnt agree with him is "EMBOLDENING" "the enemy"

    Dont those fools EVER learn that America is tired of that Nazi BS, maybe the repugs need to lose a few more elections and become as irrelevant and impotent as Moo Moo.

    ReplyDelete
  124. Frederick,

    Your guess was close about the Amanda Marshall video. I don't expect you'll get it, but you're getting warmer.

    ReplyDelete
  125. All in all Moo Moo's just another brick in the wall...

    ReplyDelete
  126. Well I certainly hope Rove goes down..........err I mean goes to jail Carl, I cant stomach that nazi, he reminds me of TT a slimy piece of crap.

    ReplyDelete
  127. Way to go!

    How ya like it now, Moo Cow?

    ReplyDelete
  128. Comfortably Numb...

    ReplyDelete
  129. He's busy throwing a tantrum right now.

    ReplyDelete
  130. Smashing his keyboard and all

    ReplyDelete
  131. Its ok though. He'll go on to playing with his model tanks soon

    ReplyDelete
  132. Tomcat,

    Dead mens bones has always been a favorite of mine as well.

    ReplyDelete
  133. So is strain at a gnat, swallow a camel.

    ReplyDelete
  134. Tom,

    (gee..I get to hump my blog here...what a shock)

    Your developmental trope is a good one, intellectually, but there's an emotional component as well.

    By seeing things only in black and white, they lose, or rather, never gain the ability to follow nuance and cause and effect.

    So for them, things "just happen" and the cause-and-effect is either someone was bad or someone was good and are being either punished or rewarded.

    They remain Magical Children

    ReplyDelete
  135. Mike,

    Rove is likely going to be forced to admit, under oath, that he outted Plame.

    Dan Bartlett, the former communications director for the White House, is also being subpoenaed. I assume for similar reasons.

    ReplyDelete
  136. Now, remember about a year ago when I outlined moo moos intentions here?

    Everyone remember that?



    He rests my case.

    ReplyDelete
  137. Worf,

    Thank you. Clearly an unbalanced, unstable individual.

    I think I'll go shower the dust off.

    ReplyDelete
  138. This comment has been removed by the author.

    ReplyDelete
  139. Now let the REAL conversation begin, fellas.

    ReplyDelete
  140. Sorry I was busy today, seems like I missed alot, too bad Mook Mook has to be so anal with his widdle mind....

    ReplyDelete
  141. Who, Me? said...
    This guy needs an enema. AND an exorcism!!!


    Or just a good spanking. Which I think he just got. :-)

    ReplyDelete
  142. Personnaly I think he needs an lobotomy which would be accomplished with an enema....and a spoon

    ReplyDelete
  143. Well, Clif, he's a Republican, chances are he may have already had one...

    ReplyDelete
  144. Clif,

    Yea there were a couple of outbreaks of in-flew-densers, but not too bad.

    So did YOU hear about Rove being subpoenaed?

    ReplyDelete
  145. Carl and Tomcat, you guys are absolutely right, i've been saying that for the last couple of years that the repugs are incapable of seeing shades of grey, all they see is black and white.

    ReplyDelete
  146. A lobotomy, that is...

    ReplyDelete
  147. Ivins hospitalized in her cancer fight

    AUSTIN, Texas - Liberal Texas columnist Molly Ivins has been hospitalized in her ongoing battle with breast cancer, her assistant said Friday.

    Ivins may be able to go home Monday, Betsy Moon said.

    "That's the day the doctors said," Moon said. "We're not sure what's going to happen, but she's very sick."

    Ivins, 62, had taken a break from her syndicated column, which appears in nearly 400 newspapers, but resumed writing earlier this month.....

    Hope she makes it through this, she is a very good voice frm the wilderness about the Chimpy McFlightsuit.

    ReplyDelete
  148. Carl I have a lot of outer-net thingys to get done .. so I have limited time in the tubes for now.

    ReplyDelete
  149. Mike,

    What astounds me about that is, sometimes the black and white should be obvious and THEN they focus on the greys...

    Take Kerry. War hero. Fought in Nam. Earned a Silver and Bronze Star, and Purple Heart.

    Suddenly, they start digging and making up stories about his "heroics", all the while telling us how we should always support the troops in combat and never speak badly of them because, you know, we're traitors if we do.

    As they support a guy who, um, didn't fight, ran away from the easy duty he managed to glom onto AND denigrated the troops in Nam to his friends.

    Why? I guess that does come down to black and white: Kerry was a liberal.

    ReplyDelete
  150. Yes, I heard about Rove.

    My guess is so did Johnny Moo Mook and thats why he was throwing a tantrum.

    ReplyDelete
  151. Worf did you hear Rove just got subpoenaed?, this is what I was talking about yesterday, slowly get the dirt on these clowns until impeachment becomes not just possible but the only suitable option.

    I was a little kid when Nixon was impeached, but I remember parts of it quite vividly, mostly being forced to listen to 6 straight hours of news about him being impeached while driving home from the Adirondacks with my parents and being upset because my cartoons kept getting interupted for that jerk.

    But I also remember hearing Nixon deemed himself invincible and spit on and thumbed his nose at the justice system just like Bush, and I remember hearing many say it would be impossible to bring him down just like this president.

    Remember dragons can always be slain, they always have one chink in their armor, and I predict if the Democrats conduct agressive and numerous hearings and investigations and force his hand, they will get what they need to end the reign of this dictator.

    ReplyDelete
  152. they are hippocrites Carl, lying hippocrits.

    ReplyDelete
  153. Worf,

    I figured it was either that or his credit card was rejected at webcamchat.com...

    ReplyDelete
  154. I imagine moo moo is crapping his pants right now, thinking about his hero Rove going before a grand jury of his peers.

    :|

    Actually, they're humans, so they're not exactly his peers.

    Both are primate.

    ReplyDelete
  155. SWhat will bring Bush DOWN is the same thing that brought Nixon down, when enough of his own [party turn their backs on him for survival of their careers and the GOP, Bush will get the same notice Poppy sent to Tricky Dick.

    But Bush is so much more infantile than Nixon he will fight it and LOSE.

    ReplyDelete
  156. It is hard to watch your hero fail, Worf.

    ReplyDelete
  157. Bush: ‘I’m the decision-maker’ on Iraq troops
    President challenges lawmakers to give ‘surge’ plan a chance to work

    AP Updated: 9:43 a.m. PT Jan 26, 2007
    WASHINGTON - President Bush, on a collision course with Congress over Iraq, said Friday “I’m the decision-maker” about sending more troops to the war. He challenged skeptical lawmakers not to prematurely condemn his buildup.
    “I’ve picked the plan that I think is most likely to succeed,” Bush said in an Oval Office meeting with senior military advisers.
    The president had strong words for lawmakers on both sides of the aisle who are lining up to support resolutions opposing his decision to send 21,500 troops to Iraq. He challenged them to put up their own ideas.

    ReplyDelete
  158. More like his God Clif.

    ReplyDelete
  159. Mike I posted that earlier.

    ReplyDelete
  160. Its like he's suddenly just going insane.

    ReplyDelete
  161. Have you heard this dictator talk, in the last year or so GWB has said :

    1) "The Constitution is a goddamn piece of paper"

    2) "I am the Decider"

    3) "I prefer a dictatorship it's easier"

    4) "i'm the decision maker"

    This megalomaniac wannabe dictator needs to be impeached before he does any more damage to our country, our Constitution or starts WW3!

    ReplyDelete
  162. Bush thinks he is invincible because Cheney and Dumsfeld do not believe the laws enacted in the mid 1970's post Watergate are legally binding on the office iof the presidency, too bad Bush is the one who will suffer when he finds out they are WRONG.

    Dumsfeld has gotten the boot, and there are rumors "Cheney will resign for health reasons," and that Condi will get the office, but no congress is gonna approve her at this point...

    ReplyDelete
  163. Clif said "What will bring Bush DOWN is the same thing that brought Nixon down, when enough of his own [party turn their backs on him for survival of their careers and the GOP, Bush will get the same notice Poppy sent to Tricky Dick."

    Thats exactly what i said last night Clif, and your absolutely right!

    ReplyDelete
  164. My question to all of you is:

    How in the hell are we EVER going to get our country back????

    ReplyDelete
  165. Did you see that some reporter asked Bush why this time the Iraq plan is going to work and he told her "Because I told them it can't fail"?

    Why didn't he say that the first six hundred times they were changing plans around?

    ReplyDelete
  166. Jacq,

    It's easy. And hard.

    We need to get people informed. That's the easy part.

    The hard part is getting them informed.

    ReplyDelete
  167. Condi could be Bush43's Dan quayle, no idiot would ever make HER president...the national budget couldn't stand the shoe store raids......

    ReplyDelete
  168. We get our country back if we want it bad enough.

    ReplyDelete
  169. I never gave my little piece of it away to anybody.

    ReplyDelete
  170. No Moo Moo may be a primate but Rove is a reptile.

    ReplyDelete
  171. 4 troops abducted, killed in Iraq attack

    STEVEN R. HURST and QASSIM ABDUL-ZAHRA,
    Associated Press Writers
    34 minutes ago
    BAGHDAD, Iraq -

    In perhaps the boldest and most sophisticated attack in four years of warfare, gunmen speaking English, wearing U.S. military uniforms and carrying American weapons abducted four U.S. soldiers last week at the provincial headquarters in the Shiite holy city of Karbala and then shot them to death.

    ReplyDelete
  172. Mike said...
    No Moo Moo may be a primate but Rove is a reptile.


    A "primate"?

    I'd say no higher than "secondmate"...

    ReplyDelete
  173. If Cheney is going to resign he REALLY must be afraid of the heat, maybe Libby is sick and tired of getting crapped on by the smug Rove and Cheney and is going to teach them that there is truly no honor among thieves.

    ReplyDelete
  174. So they found them dead. I'm sad to read that, Worf, altho that was an inevitable outcome.

    ReplyDelete
  175. Worf said "In perhaps the boldest and most sophisticated attack in four years of warfare, gunmen speaking English, wearing U.S. military uniforms and carrying American weapons abducted four U.S. soldiers last week at the provincial headquarters in the Shiite holy city of Karbala and then shot them to death."

    Yeah but FF would say we need to stay there as long as they want us there........sure looks like they want us over there huh?

    ReplyDelete
  176. The Foxy Who, Me? said...
    My question to all of you is:

    How in the hell are we EVER going to get our country back????


    Only if our congress grows a set sometime in the next few months.

    And once the truth from Roves testimony comes out then Congress has to impeach both Bush and Cheney.

    Of cours that would put the Speaker of the House in charge, which would be Nancy Pelosi.

    Wouldn't that be a kick in the pants.

    All she'd have to do is make John Murtha her Vice President and she'd be on track. She's weak, but shes still better than Bush. And with a good VP to handle the war, someone with military experience, she'd be fine for 2 years.

    :D

    And the world would love it. They'd think we were cool.

    ReplyDelete
  177. Check OUT this CBS shot video the DO NOT put on the evening news just the web ...

    Battle for Haifa Street

    (there is a 15 sec commercial at the beginning)

    ReplyDelete
  178. Carl, did you just add Haloscan to your blog or have you had it for a while?

    ReplyDelete
  179. Did you guys see this?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sta3W2m0Qtw

    I saw it on http://shakespearessister.blogspot.com/

    No one can tell ANYONE that brainwashing DOES NOT EXIST. It has for years in the armed forces, but now more than ever.

    Telling them they're gonna end up homeless if they get out?

    ReplyDelete
  180. I think that just as we said last winter while Rusty mocked us, this Scooter Libby trial is going to be far more significant than most people think.

    ReplyDelete
  181. Worfues that post of yours about the insurgency bypassing THREE checkpoints to kidnap 4 US soldiers and kill a Captain, is chilling if you think about it, because Busgh ET AL wants to set up thousands of US soldiers is very similar circumstances where they rely on Iraqi guards for most of their protection.

    That is going to happen again if the really put small teams all around Baghdad.

    ReplyDelete
  182. Mike, I've had Halo for over a year now

    ReplyDelete
  183. Yea, I wish those right wing dumb son of a bitches would watch that video clip one time Clif.

    Heckuva job they've done there, huh?

    ReplyDelete
  184. Yes Clif and think about this.

    We're training them to do it, and giving them the means.

    We're even arming them.

    What are we freaking crazy?

    These same weapons we are giving them now will be killing US troops later.

    Mark my words.

    ReplyDelete
  185. FUTK

    Toby Keith says he was always against the Iraq war. Glad he had the courage of his convictions at the time, when this was the image he would show at his concerts.

    IMAGE Toby Keith used to show at his concerts


    Damn if Mr. Boot in your ass is against the war who is left?

    ReplyDelete
  186. From TP

    Famed country singer Toby Keith,

    who engaged in a public feud with the Dixie Chicks and once sang a two-fisted song about putting “a boot in [the] ass” of the terrorists, tells Newsday that he doesn’t support the Iraq war. “‘Never did,’ he says — and he favors setting a time limit on the occupation. He says he suspects civil war in Iraq is inevitable and predicts the Kurds will be the victors: ‘I promise you, they’ll end up with it all.’”


    I wonder if all the ignorant imbrads will ban Him and burn his albulms?

    Call his a traitor?

    Send him death threats?

    ReplyDelete
  187. Gee, Clif, I guess I'll have to buy a Toby Keith CD now....

    ....to POOP on!

    ReplyDelete
  188. OK, it's officially Saturday here, so now I can go to bed. Night all!

    ReplyDelete
  189. Hey I got an idea how bout we bring back a draft so all the gutless Reich wingers have to suit up and put their money where their big mouths are,,,,,,,,,,,,oh yeah FF a guy that has been dead wrong on just about EVERYTHING says a draft would weaken our military...........sounds kinda like someone saying having your salary double will wreck your finances.

    ReplyDelete
  190. Oh look. Johnny seems to be having, er....technical difficulties....?

    He posted the following a little while ago over at Voltrons blog.


    Johnny moo moo said...
    Its official Volt. At 12:35 pm, Jan 26, 2007, I was banned from the communist, pedophile supportin blog.

    ReplyDelete
  191. Poor Johnny....


    Maybe he needs to reboot....


    :D

    ReplyDelete
  192. Silly moo moo.... trix are for kidz.

    ReplyDelete