Thursday, January 26, 2006


Thanks to everyone who voted on our "Best New Blog" nomination for a Koufax Award. Check out this wonderfully generous website and all the nominees at Wampum

HEY - WHY didn't any reporters in Bush's press conference yesterday, bring up the fact that JACK ABRAMOFF was on Bush's transition team?

We must FILIBUSTER ALITO. Along with Donald Rumsfield, Alito is part of the "Princeton elite" or "Concerned Alumni of Princeton (CAP) which wanted to stifle women and minorities on campus back in the 70's. I have some very interesting news about Rumsfield, who always seems so "aw-shucks" nice and innocuous, doesn't he? Well we all know he owns a multi-million dollar stake in Tamiflu -- the only drug that can combat "bird-flu". So guess why bird flu keeps seeping into the news? There is something going on here that will blow your mind. Stay tuned.

Bush said, in 2002, "Wiretapping requires a court order." Now he says, "The FISA law was written in 1978.
We're having the discussion in 2006. It's a different world." How convenient. THE TEN COMMANDMENTS were made over 2000 years ago. It's a different world, aren't you going to change them? (paraphrased from Randi Rhodes on Air America yesterday.)

Have you noticed more boobs in America lately? And I’m not just talking about our political leaders, though the two seem to go hand-in-hand. What I mean is, the larger the boobs, the more narrow-minded the politicians. (See below for the rest of Boobgate article; I'm interrupting this to post a summary of our position on Iraq and what the NSA spy scandal means to us, US! By the way, I changed the title from BOOBGATE REDUX because it was pretentious, not because "libs" are dumb, as a certain right-winger mentioned in the comment section.


Things to think about: If we had known we were invading Iraq to spread democracy, and for “nation-building”, I wonder how many of us would have voted for this? Also -- How many of you believe Bush never met Jack Abramoff?

I received this comment from a right-winger named “StevieWonder” on my blog "Blessed Are the Peacemakers" this Christmas:

“If we lived in a country that limited your right to dissent from our war efforts (I.E. GWB has not chopped off your head for dissenting) I would be grateful for the right to have my democratic voice, as you have the right to yours”.

Here is my answer:

Figuratively, many people have had their heads chopped off for dissenting. People who wore "PEACE" t-shirts were arrested in malls. The Dixie Chicks seem to have vanished (Maybe I'm wrong, but where did they go?) Michael Moore has been marginalized and ridiculed. There's a sinister form of blacklisting going on in America right now. If you research it, there are thousands of "swarthy" types (Ann Coulter's term) who are still being held at Guantanamo Bay, who are completely innocent and whose lives have been ruined. "There are also things about this war that no one is telling us; our trusted leader did not do everything in his power to avoid war -- on the contrary, he chose to ignore every spiritual leader, even the Pope, who came to him and beseeched him to stop and really think this through, or at least slow down. There was no imminent danger: we were ON TOP of Sadaam. The whole world was watching him --and there was no IMMINENT DANGER. Bush RUSHED us to war. You say he didn't create more terrorists? It's only natural: if our country were invaded, more and more people would rise up against the invaders in very violent ways. More and more people in Iraq have joined the "resistance" and are committed to hating us -- more than ever before -- across all Muslim territories. Believe me, we would do the same thing if we were invaded -- even with a despot in power. ("He may be an evil despot, but at least he's MY evil despot.") You have to remember that at the time of Sadaam's reign, there was at least a routine and normalcy to daily life that people had been accustomed to: at least they could get food & housing & electricity. Students, even women, attended universities, had parties, and celebrated birthdays in cafes without fear of suicide attacks. And Time Magazine had a report on Christians in Iraq: they were not bothered or interfered with by Sadaam -- and some even owned laundries and corner markets. I actually read that they owned their own liquor stores! And at the time we were hovering over Sadaam while the U.N. inspectors made their rounds -- no one was going to look away for one second. We had Sadaam on his best behavior, after all -- he knew the world was his stage, and at that point, just to look like a good guy -- he might have actually been malleable enough (given enough time) to be willing to work with us. I wrote a book on Stalin and he definitely had an Achilles heel: his ego. There were many ways to get to Saddam - it would have been interesting trying, in a focused way, while the world watched. Or if not him, maybe his cronies. We could have won people in the underground over to our form of democracy -- by attraction not force. Nothing is ever truly won by force (and I mean that figuratively as well -- until a person reaches his own bottom or sees the light, they resist. You never win them over until they come to the decision inside first. Yes you can chain them up, but to win their hearts they have to want to change and be attracted to the light; they have to want it for themselves.) You think what they have now in Iraq is better? Living in constant fear of walking outside, going to school, buying groceries? Religious extremists blowing up Iraqi children as they blow themselves up -- because they are so passionately against the invaders? The Mideast has always been a hotbed, why on earth did Bush have to invade Muslim Holy land -- when the extremists made it known this was their biggest beef with us? American footprints on their holy land bringing capitalism to the Muslim world. Just like we did with the Saudis. 

I will not be smeared by propagandists like Ann Coulter. I have family in the military (Marine with purple heart) and the American flag flies high outside our house. I love my sons and love all children. We are the most patriotic family I know. This is a heinous, diabolical war, brought on by an unthinking elitist who couldn't even finish his Airforce training. I'd like to know why he doesn't send his own daughters to fight. Or why don't any of the other members of Congress who sold this war to the American people. American parents who have lost their only children in Iraq have a right to speak out against this evil war without being called unpatriotic. 

By the way, I do not hate Ann Coulter. As a Christian, I am called to hate the sin, but not the sinner. I do not hate anyone. But I will continue to speak out against her tactics. I am praying for her -- and for all of us to have softer hearts. I thank you for your understanding. 
Peace on Earth. Love, Lydia

(BOOBGATE....continued further down below)



Friends, countrymen, lend me your earpieces……

The Bush administration announced a campaign to convince Americans that his warrant-less spying program is legal, and does not violate US laws, all this on the heels of several ongoing investigations into corruption involving high ranking members of both the Bush administration and other top ranking republican figures.

These efforts are designed to convince us that although the facts seem to point to the contrary, that the President has complied with all US laws and no improprieties exist.

But do the facts agree?

On Saturday the Washington Post indicated that Congressional research clearly demonstrated that Mr. Bush had broken US Law when he instituted his Warrantless domestic spying program.

A report by Congress's research arm concluded yesterday that the administration's justification for the warrantless eavesdropping authorized by President Bush conflicts with existing law

Carol D. Leonnig
Washington Post Staff Writer
Saturday, January 7, 2006; Page A01

Thursday, the New York Times published similar findings.

A legal analysis by the nonpartisan Congressional Research Service concludes that the Bush administration's limited briefings for Congress on the National Security Agency's domestic eavesdropping without warrants are "inconsistent with the law."

Scott Shane

Yet the Bush administration and its supporters continue to defend illegal actions by the President, elevating Bush to almost kinglike status, ignoring the inherent balance of powers in our democracy and disregarding our own US law.

So why today would the Bush administration launch an all out effort, with an almost totalitarian disdain for oversight, and their typical our way or the highway mentality?

Yesterday the Department of Justice released in response to criticism of the Bush administrations spying program a 42 page document prepared under the direction of longtime Bush ally and appointee, Attorney General Alberto Gonzales.

The document, while filled with lengthy rhetoric, does little to demonstrate any legality for the program. On the one hand, the document argues Bush had the authority to launch his domestic spying program based on Congressional authority provided in 2001 following the 911 attacks.

On the other hand, Attorney General Alberto Gonzales argues that if they had asked Congress for approval, they may have rejected the requests; “that was not something we could likely get” Alberto Gonzales – and therefore opted to carry out the operations without Congressional oversight.

This week the debate heated up, however coincidentally after over a year in silence Osama Bin Laden decided to drop us all a note and remind us all what we’re fighting for, and subsequently took pressure off the White House and turned America’s attention back to the War on Terror.

As the week progressed however attentions shifted back towards the ongoing spy scandal and the ever
increasing possibility that the President has broken the law. Gore, Walter Cronkite and now John McCain believe Bush has broken the law.

Today, US Congressman Chris Van Hollen (D) MD, said with regards to the DOJ’s 42 page apology for the administrations actions;

Making their argument longer does not make it better
And ”Any first year law student can see this argument is specious “.

Later in the day, former Federal Prosecutor Richard Sauber said on Hardball;

”At best it's a weak argument. At worst it's a silly argument”

We are at a crossroads here. The President of the United States has broken US Law, openly and defiantly. The Department of Justice, headed by a long time Bush ally has chosen to defend this crime with legally unfounded official rhetoric.

And now, the Bush Administration is actively out trying to convince Americans that the President now makes the laws, and therefore he cannot break them.

A long time ago the Mormon Prophet Joseph Smith made a prediction that in the end of times, the US Constitution would literally ”dangle by a thread.

I cannot attest as to his prophetic capabilities however we can certainly see the relevance of this saying today, as we are faced with the ultimate threat to our democratic way of governing ourselves. Do we allow ourselves to be fostered under the wings of a benevolent monarch whose only concerns are purportedly to keep us all safe from terrorists? (forget natural disasters, crime, poverty, etc, terrorists are all we have to fear)

Or should we be more concerned as to letting Bin Laden win by turning America into exactly what he said he would force us to turn it into, a paranoid totalitarian, Orwellian like police state where the cure is far worse than the disease?

And while we make up our minds which poison will kill us first, our Constitution is precariously dangling by a thread.


... As the fixation with cartoon-porn blondes such as Anna Nicole Smith et al. has proliferated, so have the number of conservatives in Washington. Could it be a plot to distract us? In the case of Coulter, it’s her short skirt and "traditional values" that seem to give her that slutty attitude.

How do you speak to an enemy? Coulter writes: "You must outrage the enemy. If the liberal you’re arguing with doesn’t become speechless with sputtering, impotent rage, you’re not doing it right. … Start with the maximum assertion about liberals and then push the envelope, because, as we know, their evil is incalculable. … Nothing too extreme can be said about liberals, because it’s all true. – Talk, pg. 10

Ann Coulter ridicules Liberals for hurling insults and being unable to argue back intelligently with equal venom. She accuses them of stammering and calling her names. But I submit that this is a normal person’s reaction when confronted with her insanity. Reasonable people stammer! But I know a better way: turn the other cheek and let her slap that one. Before trying that technique, I want to muck around in the dirt a little first. Here is a fantasy conversation:

Ann: Liberals are traitors and the spawn of Satan.
Me: That’s a little hostile. Are those claws on your reptile or are you just happy to see me?
Ann: Oh how I hate them! They should be tortured publicly if they can't get on board.
Me: Well it's kinda hard to get on board once the train’s already wrecked.
Ann: Wrecked!? The war is going perfectly! And Sadaam had WMD hidden in his toilet, which you would know if you read my column, you war-hating chicken ass.
Me: Thank you, I was hoping my ass was as small as a chicken’s.
Ann: You just want to tax and spend, tax and spend…
Me: No, I just want you and Delay to pay for this war. By the way, what do you have against helping the poor?
Ann: The poor are swarthy and they don’t wear Izod; they're not preppy! They can’t read and they take up too much space and they don’t bathe!
Me; Well they could if they had bathtubs.
Ann: But they’re swarthy.
Me: That’s just caked-on dirt, remember?
Ann: You and your liberal scum are against the war, which means that you long to see our troops blown up!
Me: No, I’m against the war because I want our troops alive. By the way, according to Websters “liberal” means ‘generous, open-hearted, bounteous.”
Ann: Swarthy types belong in coal mines. The poor have no work ethic; they should get jobs.
Me: They would if Bush starts actually creating some (for the people who already live here.)
Ann: How dare you! Job growth has been climbing steadily under this President.
Me: I wasn't talking about Haliburton. Hey, I have an idea -- let them work for you!
Ann: No they’ll steal my china. They just want to suck me dry.
Me: It looks like that’s already happened.
Ann: You’re obviously a moron with no education.
Me: I have a Bachelor of Science degree, but thank you. Guess I'm lucky to be a be a moron with no education as opposed to a moron with the best education money can buy. :D


  1. James W8:29 PM

    Great article, puts it all in very clear language. Thank you whoever you are, Mystery Blogger.
    Lydia I heard on KABC talk radio tonight that Jack Abramoff is in 5 FIVE separate pictures with Bush. But the White House is denying Bush ever being in the same room with him, or meeting him. Unbelievable.

  2. Anonymous8:34 PM

    Where will this all end? We are being terrorized right now by our own government, just having these thoughts of being spied on.

  3. Thats a great question James.

    If ever there was a time to raise it you would think it was now.

  4. James W8:51 PM

    Why did they leave the "YELLOW ALERT" on after Bin Laden announced he was going to attack? And why not call his bluff and ask for a talk about a truce. The Palestinians and Israelis finally started talking. What's so terrible about dealing with the "truce" idea. you never know until you try.

  5. James W9:15 PM

    Worfeus, which question, the Jack Abramoff or the truce question?

  6. The yellow alert question.

    I mean, they raised everytime a squirel farted in DC before.

    Now Bin Laden releases a tape after more than a year calling for terrorist attacks on American soil, and we decide that does'nt merit even a bump?

    Seems odd to me.

  7. "Or should we be more concerned as to letting Bin Laden win by turning America into exactly what he said he would force us to turn it into, a paranoid totalitarian, Orwellian like police state where the cure is far worse than the disease?"

    I think this quote from the blog speaks volumes, Bush is leading us down a dangerous and scary road

  8. Any idea what will happen with the Bush spying on Americans thing, do you think he will be ordered to stop. Also is there any possibility of him being impeached.(seems doubtful to me, more like wishful thinking)

  9. If the left takes back the Congress, he's history I think.

    But with Republican powerhouses like John McCain coming out and declaring Bush broke the law, then he may be gone either way.

    As for being ordered to stop?

    I don't know. They have said basically that if he needs the authoritiy, then ask.

    The real question is will there be controls on the use of the data.

    And sunset provisions to destroy random data on a predetermined schedule. And making sure it is not used by law enforcement to enforce criminal law is pivotal.

    As long as they are using the data for the war on terror only it is possible we may have to live with it for a while.

    But what is done with that data will decide if we are going to remain a free nation, or become that police state.

  10. By Larry Margasak, Associated Press Writer | January 22, 2006

    WASHINGTON --Troops and civilians at a U.S. military base in Iraq were exposed to contaminated water last year and employees for the responsible contractor, Halliburton, couldn't get their company to inform camp residents, according to interviews and internal company documents.

    Halliburton, the company formerly headed by Vice President Dick Cheney, disputes the allegations about water problems at Camp Junction City, in Ramadi, even though they were made by its own employees and documented in company e-mails.

    "We exposed a base camp population (military and civilian) to a water source that was not treated," said a July 15, 2005, memo written by William Granger, the official for Halliburton's KBR subsidiary who was in charge of water quality in Iraq and Kuwait.

    "The level of contamination was roughly 2x the normal contamination of untreated water from the Euphrates River," Granger wrote in one of several documents.

  11. James W said...
    The Palestinians and Israelis finally started talking. What's so terrible about dealing with the "truce" idea. you never know until you try.

    Thats a really good point, although I disagree with talking truce with Bin Laden. He killed 3000 Americans, and we should not rest until he is dead or behind bars.

    But it is ironic, that the US, who demands Isreal reason with the PLO, refuses to reason with Alqeada.

    Apparently, whats good for the goose isn't good for the gander.

  12. A few points......

    1. We shouldnt "reason" with alquaeda. Binladen should have already been tried and hanged anyway.......(and how does the word "reason" enter into a discussion when right wing Christian zealots face off with Islamic zealots anyway.)

    2. Our Government clearly has no idea who is or isn't involved in terror activity.....if they did they wouldn't need to cast such a wide spy-net.......They're fishing like Forrest Gump did before the hurricane.

    3. The yellow alert was left alone because it's not election season yet.

    4. We should protest our governments actions by organizing a massive burning of the Constitution on every courthouse in every county of this nation. Of course the right will answer with a "Constitution burning ban amendment"......then we pee on it to put out the fire.

    5. All in all this is doubleplusungood

    6. War is Peace

  13. So, first of all, let me assert my firm belief that the only thing we have to fear is...... fear itself—nameless, unreasoning, unjustified terror .......

    FDR's words over 70 years ago. I wonder how many of us vote today based on many buy a gun based on many spew out "christian" conservative principles based on fear.... nameless, unreasoning, unjustified terror

    war is peace

  14. Voltaire10:49 AM

    "One "plaintiff" in the nuisance lawsuits being filed against the Director of the NSA et al is none other than the granddaughter of Julius and Ethel Rosenberg — Rachel Meeropol.

    Lest we forget, the Rosenbergs were executed in 1953 — for spying. Under the direction of the KGB, the Rosenbergs helped pass US atom bomb secrets to the Soviet Union. (Most fittingly, Julius’s KGB nom de guerre was "Liberal.")

    True to her roots, Rachel is a Vice President of the New York City chapter of the communist National Lawyers Guild. She is also a fixture in some of the most ultra left organizations out there, such as The Children Of Resistance."

  15. Anonymous11:00 AM

    The yellow alert was left alone because it's not election season yet.


  16. James W11:06 AM

    Okay Voltaire, there are all types of people in America who have the right to free speech, and both sides have their extremists. But our government spying without warrants on citizens of a "free" nation is not to be tolerated.

    Tell me if you approve of Bill O'Reilly crying about traditional family values, while being a married man having phone sex with an unwilling employee? Is this not hypocrisy? Do you get the connection I am making?

  17. your allright kirk, good post buddy, I agree if we would have devoted ALL of our resources to catching Bin Laden we would have captured him long ago. I think its pretty disgracefull that he got away.

    I also think your right that the administration doesnt have a clue about terror, however I question if the spying thing is even about terror at all, to me it looks like a power grab, being able to spy on your political rivals and enemys makes it a lot easier to stay in power, couple that with the asaults on the Constitution and our personal freedoms you mention as well as the silencing and discrediting and punishing anyone who speaks out. people who speak out are labeled unpatriotic, one person who wrote a book about Bush was put on the do not fly list like terrorists now he can never fly on a plane and cant get removed from the list. The administration even has the power to throw people in jail indefinately with out due process, how far a stretch is it for them to do this to a political rival or someone who speaks out against them, all they have to do is claim they think the person might be a terrorist.the checks and balances were put into our government for a reason, and this Administration has repeatedly attempted to circumvent them .

  18. Voltaire said...
    Lest we forget, the Rosenbergs were executed in 1953 — for spying. Under the direction of the KGB, the Rosenbergs helped pass US atom bomb secrets to the Soviet Union. (Most fittingly, Julius’s KGB nom de guerre was "Liberal.

    Lest we forget, the Bush family are Germans (correct spelling Busch), who made ammassed much of their wealth off things like the construction of the Nazi Death Camps. In fact, the firm where he was one of the directors, the Union Banking Corp, had it's assets seized by the US Department of Justice under the Trading with the Enemy Act.

    Lest we forget.

  19. Top Republicans have recently gone on record condemning the Bush warrantless spying program.

    Sen. Lindsey Graham (R-SC):

    “The FISA Act was–created a court set up by the chief justice of the United States to allow a rapid response to requests for surveillance activity in the war on terror. I don’t know of any legal basis to go around that.”

    Sen. Arlen Specter (R-PA):

    "There is no doubt that this is inappropriate.”

    Sen. John McCain (R-AZ):

    Question from Interviewer:
    But you do not believe that currently he has the legal authority to engage in these warrant-less wiretaps?

    MCCAIN: You know, I don’t think so…”

    Sen. Sam Brownback (R-KS):

    “I am troubled by what the basis for the grounds that the administration says that they did these on, the legal basis…”

  20. Not much time to react at this moment. We are busy at work. But I wanted to point this out.

    As a registered Republican that hails from the great state of Arizona, the only reason McCain has stayed in office is because the Dems have not come up with a less Democratic candidate than McCain. I never did like him, but the left seems too. Should tell people something.

  21. Big K said

    never did like him, but the left seems too. Should tell people something.

    Yea, he only fought bravely in VietNam for his country, spent 8 years in the worst POW camp in Nam, the Hanoi Hilton, and for 8 years bravely supported his men, acting as mentor of courage through beatings, broken bones and torture.

    And then, when his time came to go, instead of getting on the plane, he stood on the tarmac and like all timeless heroes refused to go until all his men were released.

    I mean, what's to like?

  22. But an overweight guy who says he can break jaws with a punch, and sleeps with a 9 MM in his headboard and thinks Bush is the best thing to happen to America since sliced bread, now there's a true American hero we can all admire.

  23. I do not like him as a politician. I say he is not a strong Republican, that is all. His service to our country is, of course, remarkable. That does not necessarily translate to a great senator.

    My past is what it is. I never said I punched that guy ad broke his jaw. After the "click" of his unloaded weapon I deprived him of it and pistol whipped him with it. I have never been proud of going off on him like I did, although I will not go so far as to say he did not deserve it. He was going to chamber the thing if I gave him the chance and use it.

    The reason for the altercation? He lost a basketball game to me and my friends. He got upset about it and popped off. 20 people around and no one stopped either of us. I have never gone back to that park since.

    Take from that what you will.

  24. Well, I would take from that...well, you know, the company you keep and all...

  25. But good things gun were legal so he had one when he needed it ay?

  26. Big K1:01 PM

    And no, Bush is not the “best thing since sliced bread.” He was the lesser of two evils when I voted for him the first time. I had some respect for him the second time, but less for his opponent. So, I exercised my right to vote and did it. If I could build a presidential candidate Weird Science style you can be assured I would make big changes.

    He would be taller at least. And a better public speaker. Among other things.

  27. Yea, good thing that guy had access to a handgun.

    I mean, if we did'nt have ready access to guns, what on earth would guys like that do?

    Hard to threaten 20 people with a knife.

    Unless they're cops of course :D.

  28. Big K1:02 PM

    We were on school grounds. He carried illegally. Also, he carried concealed without a permit, and was underage. The rest of us obeyed the law and got hung out to dry.

  29. Hey Big K, your first names not Chuck is it?

  30. Big K1:08 PM

    A knife?

    In your studies you should have found that the FBI estimates it takes less than 5 minutes for a person to bleed out from a knife wound to a no vital area. 45 minutes from a gunshot. How long is the average ambulance response?

    Not 5 minutes.

    Knives are worse than guns.

  31. I really need to start adopting the Republican idea of hero worship, where men who chickened out of the war get more respect then men who at least went to war.

    Then a lazy little east coast slacker like me could be a hero too just like the coke snorting frog shootin spoiled little rich boy who failed at every business he was involved in, dodged Nam and then became president.

    That's better than a Lt. who actually went into combat. I mean Kerry was only in combat for 4 months. That beats never, right?

    Yea, this new benchmark for what constitutes a hero is awesome.

    I could tell my Uncle who always blathered on and on to me when I was growing up about storming the beaches at Normandy was sooo hard, to just shut up. Who cares?

    That was in the past.

    I mean, what has he done for me lately?

    I'm braver than he is.

    Thats the ticket.

  32. Anonymous1:09 PM

    John McCain is the only Republican in the news who seems to be a real human being.

  33. Big K said

    Knives are worse than guns

    You know you're absolutely right?

    Forget all those handgun deaths.

    The deaths from knives is overwhelming in the US.

    Knife weilding car jackers, knife weilding bank robbers, what are we gonna do???

    It's an epidemic of monstorous proportions.

  34. It's a good thing those bank robbers in LA that shot all those cops did'nt have anything as deadly as a pocket knife.

    Then it really would have been a bloodbath.

  35. Big K1:25 PM

    I love how you always draw my comments out of context. Knife wounds are worse. Read the post. That is fact.

    Again, I do not consider McCain a bad guy over all. I do not like his politics. What is wrong with saying that? He is a politician, his politics should be important too. If the guy decided to get a rap contract would he have been obliged one because of his service? No, he would have to be able to rap. It is important to have on a resume for a prospective rapper, I would think.

    I can consider the guy a military hero and respect his service just fine in light of my opinion of his personal politics.

  36. "Knives are worse than guns"

    I don't know big K. If you're mad at me and have a knife in your hand I hope you are 100 feet away.

    I am curious, Big K, to know more @ John McCain the politician. He has always seemed to me to be a conservative in the tradition of Ike and Goldwater. At the same time he seems more collegial than anyone else (except maybe Arlen Specter) so he tends to be more respected by the Dems.

  37. Big K said;

    I love how you always draw my comments out of context

    Lets, see, you wrote a sentence, a stand alone sentence that said the following; QUOTE


    Knives are worse than guns

    Unless this is some sort of secret code (I did'nt bring my decoder ring, got yours?) then I think you need to retract your accusation.

    I cut and pasted your sentence, a sentence you chose to end your post on, and a sentence that was a stand alone sentence.

    There was no misquote.

  38. Big K said: "If the guy decided to get a rap contract would he have been obliged one because of his service? No, he would have to be able to rap. It is important to have on a resume for a prospective rapper, I would think."

    So by this logic....someone should have had a strong resume before becoming how does a one term governor of a "weak governor" state who previously proved that he could only drill dry oil wells , or that his dad's friends could buy him a baseball team suddenly qualify? George Bush proved only that he had the "fecal touch" in the business world and this qualified him to be President?

  39. Kirk,

    I guess they felt that he was smarter than Kerry since he wormed his way out of having to go to Nam, and since he was slick enough to get out of all those pesky National Guard drills.

    I imagine they figured he was their type of guy.

  40. Big K1:56 PM

    Well, since we are on the topic of guns. He is quite pro gun control. He has been wishy washy on abortion and his bill to reform immigration reform I thought was a disaster, to name a few.

    Also, if you brought a gun to a knife fight, being 100 feet away would be good for you. But within 25, statistically that goes to the guy with a knife.

  41. Big K you bring up some good points......there are a lot of grey areas here. It may depend on the type of knife or gun in the fight as well......and also whether or not you grew up with the circus. I still like my chances with the gun in a duel though.

  42. Big K2:07 PM


    The tone of the post you question revolved around the wounds inflicted. There are obvious strengths and weaknesses to each, but the wounds inflicted by knives are worse. Hence the whole paragraph before the quote you pasted. Sorry, I did not spoon feed you “knife wounds are worse than gunshot wounds” after all that discussion about the statistics of them.

    As for Bush’s qualifications, they are not stellar. Given. Neither was Kerry’s. Kerry got worse grades in school than Bush, if you can believe that. Kerry has not been terribly good as a senator, having a small percentage of his proposals become law. Bush, as president has been very prolific on the other hand. His first term he got 80% of his proposals into law. Reagan did not even do that. No one has in over 100 years. So, I have some respect for Bush.

  43. Big K2:11 PM

    When I mentioned the 25 feet thing, that was another FBI study where they took a trained cop, he had to perceive a threat, draw his weapon and shoot the perpetrator in less time than it took the bad guy to close the distance. The trained cop lost almost 100% of the time in less than 25 feet. After that, well the cop has the advantage, if he can shoot.

    Taking that CCW class I saw how bad people are at that skill. They were all over the place at 20 feet. So, you have to know your stuff and how to use it.

  44. WOrf: I'm OK with McCain being pro gun about you? ....maybe he's in favor of giving knives to everyone. Then we'll have to deal with those pesky "drive by knivings" in the hood. I wonder how many innocent people will be killed as collateral damage from a drive by kniving?

  45. Big K2:13 PM

    Heh, Kirk12,

    It is funny you should say that. in a lot of states they have banned bayonets. If anyone has ever seen one, they are dull knives. Really really dull knives. The guns are legal, but the dull knife is not. Can anyone explain that one to me?

  46. Big K said

    but the wounds inflicted by knives are worse

    That is an erroneous statement at best.

    Let me stick you in the arm with my Old Grandad, then let me fire my 41 Magnum Bisley at your arm with a hollow point in it.

    The wound from the Old Grandad will require a few stiches, the wound from the HollowPoint I venture to say will require reconstructive bone surgery.

    Also it is important to point out that many knife wounds can be cleaner and easier to repair than damage from a bullet, particulary large caliber bullets.

    But the TRUTH is, it all depends on how you are shot or stabbed, how big the knife of caliber of the bullet was, and where the point of intrusion in the body occurs.

    They call those things, variables.

    So throwing out a statement like that, then finishing off with KNIFES ARE WORSE THAN GUNS, well gee, I don't know, makes any sane person think you are trying to make the point knifes are worse than guns?

    Why don't you share with us all now what POINT (pun intended) you were trying to make?

    Why would you throw out an unsubstantiated claim about knife wounds being worse than gun wounds, and finish the thought with the clear, concise statment that knifes are worse than guns, if that was not what you were really trying to say?

    Perhaps you have Tourettes and you just throw out random statistics without any point or purpose?

    But if not, what exactly was your purpose, cause clearly any one reading it is going to walk away with a knife is worse than a gun.

    Thats all there is.

  47. Big K said;

    The guns are legal, but the dull knife is not. Can anyone explain that one to me?

    Yea, I can.

    There isn't a current epidemic of Americans being killed with dull knives.

    There is a current epidemic of Americans (and their children) being killed by guns.

    You do the math.

  48. Don't forget to carry the 2.

  49. TALE of the TAPE


    Yale U grad.
    tour of Duty in Vietnam
    Grad: Boston U School of law
    Middlesex County, Mass, Prosecutor
    Lieut. Gov....Massachusetts
    US Senator..Massachusetts >20 years


    Yale Grad
    Air National Guard--DISPUTED
    Harvard MBA
    Arrested for DUI
    Lost bid for US Congress

    Ran oil company in Texas....couldn't find oil...sold all shares in a sweet deal before company went under

    Owner Texas Rangers
    Governor State of Texas

    I don't know if the answer is obvious.....but Jesus, can't the parties do better than this?

  50. AND.... the reason that Bayonets are being banned is because the NBA (national bayonet assn.) isnt dong a good enough job sending our lawmakers on fact finding trips to play golf at Pebble Beach.

  51. Big K3:05 PM

    The point is, the knife wounds are worse. You can argue it all you want. I put up the numbers, national average for death after a knife wound in a non vital area, 5 minutes. Gunshot wound, 45 minutes. Ambulances rarely make it in time to save the knife wound victims. It does matter where you are hit. But either of these wounds to a vital area is almost instant death.

    Hollow point rounds are intended to stay in the body and distribute the force to the person getting shot. . If the bullet passes through it is not doing its job correctly. In a situation where there is an exit wound there is more blood loss, and a larger wound as the exit wound is about the size of a golf ball. Depending on the caliber, point of entry, distance from the shooter, clothing, and many other factors, of course.

    A knife wound is rarely cleaner, however. Most of the time they are inflicted in a slashing motion. A half inch deep cut may not sound that bad, but when it runs the length of your chest you may have a problem. Guns kill by shock quite often. Knives blood loss.

  52. Big K Said

    I put up the numbers, national average for death after a knife wound in a non vital area, 5 minutes. Gunshot wound, 45 minutes.

    Yea? Well I did'nt see any supporting evidence for this highly questionable statistic.

    In fact, this statistic is crap. I have been stabbed 3 times in my life in non vital areas, and if memory serves me correctly, I did'nt die.

    In fact, on two of them I never even went to the hostpital.


  53. Big K3:20 PM

    Stabbed 3 times?!

    What did you say earlier,

    "the company you keep"

    Yeah, that was it.

  54. Big K Said

    The point is, the knife wounds are worse.

    What POINT?

    You just got thru telling us all how you did NOT intend to say knifes are worse than guns when you said "knifes are worse than guns.

    Now you are saying they are? Which is it?

    Because last time I checked my big gun weilding WWF watching buddy, there isn't ONE STATISTIC to show knifes are killing more Americans than handguns.

    Not one.

    So why don't you share with me what the heck the point is.

    Because right now you sound like a right winged troll trying to argue trivia and minutia.

    Guns are killing Americans and their Children every day, not knives.

  55. As for the company I keep, those events happened more than 30 years ago, and yes, I ran with a bad crowd when I was in my teens.


    I grew up.

    Did you?

  56. Oh that's right.

    You sleep with a loaded 9 MM in your headboard.

    Questions we know the answers to we don't need to ask.

  57. Also I never told you how I was stabbed.

    Ever play mumbly peg?

  58. Big K said

    national average for death after a knife wound in a non vital area, 5 minutes. Gunshot wound, 45 minutes

    Sorry, I had to do a sanity check on that one again.

    See, if it's a non vital area that you are stabbed in, then you won't bleed to death.

    In order to bleed to death, you need to hit a major artery or vein. No one bleeds to death from a stab wound to their bicep.

    Unless of course your a hemopheliac, in which case you should'nt be playing with knives in the first place :D

    Great statistic buddy.

    Too bad it's a load of horse crap.

  59. Bleeding to death in 5 minutes would take a wound to a major artery, like your carotid artery.

    Last time I checked that qualifies as a VITAL POINT


  60. Big K3:47 PM

    You did not ask how I got in that fight before your “company” comment. Fair is fair.

    As stated previously, the entire paragraph prior to the “knives are worse than guns” comment focused on wounds inflicted. Not numbers of gunshot vs knife victims. I admit, there is some subtlety there. Maybe it was confusing to you. But the wounds were my focus, not the 40-50 thousand deaths attributed to guns in this country per year. Knives are not used in as many crimes, but when they are, they are pretty messy.

    And if you got stabbed playing a game that if I remember, involves wrapping the knife with a cloth so that only a small part of the tip is exposed, how can you equate that with a knife wound inflicted with the intent to kill?

    And while we are on the subject of substantiation, where is your medical degree that shows a person would not die from an open wound to the arm or leg? If a tourniquet is not applied, the person can die, and quite easily.

  61. Big K said

    I admit, there is some subtlety there. Maybe it was confusing to you.

    Not to me big guy.

    I read you like a book.

  62. Big K said

    But the wounds were my focus, not the 40-50 thousand deaths attributed to guns in this country per year. Knives are not used in as many crimes, but when they are, they are pretty messy.

    So why bring it up at all?

    We were talking about guns in society.

    You waltz in and throw out this crap statistic that knife wounds are worse, and then backpedal for 10 posts saying you were not trying to say knifes are worse than guns.

    Why throw out a statistic that counters what we were talking about, if your intent was not to counter what we are talking about?

    I know why.

  63. If a tourniquet is not applied, the person can die, and quite easily.

    Not in 5 minutes slappy.

    Thats what you said right? 5 minutes?

    Maybe your blood leaves your body that fast from a comprimise to a peripheral vein, but mine does not.

  64. Sorry buddy, but that statistic was a load of crap.

    And your backpedaling is not fooling anyone.

    You were defending guns in America, by clearly saying knifes are more dangerous.

    Or why else would you bring up your statistic in the first place?

    Or for that matter, why not end your post by saying,

    knife wounds are far worse than gun wounds, INSTEAD of saying LIKE YOU DID, knifes are worse than guns?

    Any normal person would see these two sentences as being quite different.

    But in truth, why bring it up at all, and why then add the last sentence?

    I know why.

  65. James W4:10 PM

    The Republican party keeps claiming they stand for "hard work and "taking responsibility" and traditional values. But their representatives don't follow this. George Bush was handed everything, never had to work hard to get where he is, nepotism...

  66. Its a silver spoon club James.

    Silver spoons.

  67. Oh BTW, Big K, in good ole Redneck southern Virgina, only sissies wrap the blade. :D

  68. Here, I think in all fairness now would be a good time to repost Big K's original post.


    A knife?

    In your studies you should have found that the FBI estimates it takes less than 5 minutes for a person to bleed out from a knife wound to a no vital area. 45 minutes from a gunshot. How long is the average ambulance response?

    Not 5 minutes.

    Knives are worse than guns.

    Like I said, like a book.

  69. Hold on guys, I'll be back.

    I accidently cut my hand peeling an apple and I am currently in the process of bleeding to death.

    If I don't get a tourniquet on it I'll be dead in less than 5 minutes!

    Times-a-wastin! :O

  70. Big K4:28 PM

    Thank you for reposting my post.

    As stated, now a few times, the PARAGRAPH prior to that statement puts it in context. You do no what context means, right? There is no backpedaling going on here. I stand by that comment as long as it is taken in the correct context, including the prior paragraph.

    Feel free to dispute my numbers, but do so with a bit more than they are crap. As compelling as that is it does not prove much.

    “Only sissies wrap the blade.”

    And you said I ran with a bad crowd.

  71. Ok Big K.

    It is clear now why you are a republican.

    I just countered EVERYTHING in your argument, reposting it to demonstrate the my last 7 posts.

    Guess I will have to start reposting my counters until you actually ANSWER one of them.


    the FBI estimates it takes less than 5 minutes for a person to bleed out from a knife wound to a no vital area.


    knifes are worse than guns

    So his argument, since he is either too thick or too stubborn to admit, was that because a knife wound is supposedly worse than a gun wound, is that knifes are worse than guns which was his final SUMMARIZING statement.

    Now our republican friend wants to tell us that when he SAID knifes are worse than guns, he did not MEAN that knifes are worse than guns.

    Big K. All I can say is you are a monument to the right wing.

    Your ability to deny meaning what you CLEARLY said 5 minutes ago is indeed uncanny.

    Karl Rove would be proud of you.

  73. And I would see a doctor about that bleeding problem, LOL.

    Anyone who bleeds out from a stab wound to a NON VITAL AREA in 5 minutes, has got some pretty weird blood.

    Like I said get checked for hemophilia. Sounds like it may be an issue.

  74. And one more thing, THATS why I said your statistic is a load of horse crap.


    If you need a doctor to explain that too you then perhaps I have indeed overestimated you.

  75. Hold on guys, I'll be back.

    I accidently cut my hand peeling an apple and I am currently in the process of bleeding to death.

    If I don't get a tourniquet on it I'll be dead in less than 5 minutes!

    Times-a-wastin! :O

  76. Big K4:54 PM

    Here you go Worf.

    FBI statistics (actually taken from the UK, it was faster than searching the FBI website)

    “edged weapon attackers are responsible for 3% of all armed attacks..

    Firearm attacks account for 4%

    Both of the above stats represent fatalities.

    Subject shot, 10% die from their wounds.

    Subject stabbed, 30% die from their wounds.”


    “In reality, within their respective ranges, knives are superior to firearms as far as lethality is concerned.”

    The report I cite did not mention the 5 minute 45 minute stats I gave earlier. I can keep looking for those if you like. But I think this proves my point sufficiently. If you disagree, I am sure you will let me know.

    Here is the link.

    I am surprised you did not know about that though. The report is part of a now famous/infamous FBI wound study done a few years ago. I thought I would be preaching to the choir to you.

  77. LOL

    Nice link.

    Except that link goes to the ISU School of Tae Kwon Do. :D

    LOL, what else ya got?

  78. Big K said

    The report I cite did not mention the 5 minute 45 minute stats I gave earlier.

    LOL, Yea, I BET it did'nt. :P

  79. BIG K SAID;

    I can keep looking for those if you like.

    Yea, you might want to do that...


  80. I assume you are busy at work, since your responses are taking so long.

    In the meantime, I thought I might entertain everyone with the results of a quick search on the web regarding the topic.

    Percentage of Reported Gun and Knife Attacks that result in death.


    Knives (16,518 total attacks) 2.4 % resulting in death

    Guns (6,350 total attacks)
    12.2 % resulting in death

    Source: Firearms and Violence in American Life

    It might be contended that if gun murderers were deprived of guns
    that they would find a way to kill as often with knives.

    If this were so, knife attacks in cities where guns were widely used in homicide would be expected to show a low fatality rate, and knife attacks in cities where guns were not so widely used (like Vancouver) would show a higher fatality rate.

    But the Nat'l Commission on the Causes and Prevention of Violence Task Force analyzed the data and found this not to be the case.

    It appeared to them that as the number of knife attacks increased in relation to the number of firearms attacks (which presumably happened where guns were less available to assailants),the proportion of FATAL knife attacks did NOT increase relative to the proportion of gun attacks. In fact, the reverse was true.

    What was found was that most homicides did not show a determination on the part of the assailant to kill.

    Fatalities caused by knife tended
    to show a single-mindedness on the part of the assailant to do grave physical injury: multiple stabs wounds, wounds concentrated about the head neck and chest, etc.

    Most gun homicides did not show this pattern. Rather, more fatal attacks were committed during a moment of rage and not the focused intent to kill the victim.

  81. BTW those are from an old study, so feel free to provide some newer data for me to refute.

    Just know this Rambro....

    Nothing you put up there is going to make any American become more afraid of nuts with knives than nuts with guns.

    I can bean the chucklehead standing in my front yard with a knife with my louisville slugger, (assuming he gets close enough to actually do anything with it, you have to get within arms length of someone with a knife to do any damage, unless of course you're like big K and think you're a kung fu Ninga turtle).

    But I cannot bean the guy standing on my front yard with a 9 mm semi auto. He can kill me before he even feels the breeze from my bat.

    Of course, what do I have to worry about. According to Big K, they're all bad shots so I have no reason to fear them.

    I can just stand there and wave my bat at them and say go away. :|

    Then when they have emptied the clip, I can run up to them and hit them, assuming there are no new holes in my noggin.

  82. Homicides of teens and young adults are much more likely to be committed with a gun than homicides of persons of other ages

    US Department of Justice

  83. Now some of you may wonder why Big K posted a link to a Karate School claiming it was a link to an FBI gun study, then when CALLED on it, just sort of disappeared.

    Well, in case the answers not obvious, its because he KNEW WORFEUS would visit the FBI website, and get the stats himself.

    And the stats on the FBI website, tell quite a different story than the one presented here today by Big K.

    According to a study done by the FBI between 1990 and 2002 (A 12 YEAR SPAN!)on Homicides by relationship and weapon type, we learn that attacks resulting in death from Gun Attacks, as opposed to Knife Attacks are astronomically higher, (as any reasonably intelligent person would have already deduced).

    According to the DOJ, Husbands who die in attacks with a gun total 70 PERCENT. 70 PERCENT.

    Husbands who die in attacks with a knife? Only 26 PERCENT.

    Ex-Husbands? A whopping 86 PERCENT of EX HUSBANDS die in Gun Related Attacks.

    Only a measly 9 PERCENT die from attacks with knifes.

    How about the ladies?

    WIFES who die from attacks involving guns? 68 PERCENT.

    Knifes? 14 PERCENT.

    Ex-WIVES who die from attacks involving guns? A whopping 78 PERCENT!

    From knifes? Only 12 PERCENT.

    -- Source: FBI, Supplementary Homicide Reports, 1976-2002 DOJ.GOV --

    So now we see the truth. Not from an old internet article that Big K FAILED TO PRODUCE, (which BTW was quoting statistics for Vancouver Canada! think I would'nt notice?)but from the Department of Justice Official site, and from an official study.

    And the FACTS say, you are much more likely to get killed if attacked with a gun, than a knife.


  84. Big K6:04 PM


    I typed in my exact verbiage and found a number of cites that said the same thing as my stats, all of them claim to have cited the FBI. All I have to do is find the report they are citing and that is it.

    And yes, I am at work. It does slow my responses. My employer frowns on me using the internet during business hours, but if we are slow they do not care. Today we have had more business than we have had in the last few months. I just wish they were buying stuff.

    Your point of a bat vs the knife is well taken. That would be an interesting confrontation, but a bat is still considered a deadly weapon. I further doubt that you would end up in your front yard waiting for someone to attack you and you would have the bat at the ready. These guys do not call ahead and make reservations.

    When I said people were bad shots, you had to see the people taking that test for their CCW. I was amazed at how bad most of them were. We had this nifty little device that uses a light gun to show where your hits are registered on a screen. They use a projector so that everything is life sized, and distances are approximately right. The guns are weighted and have realistic recoil effects. These guys were missing by feet. Whole feet. I really thought they would do better than that. I can only imagine their performance would be worse in a real encounter.

  85. Look Big K, thanks for changing the topic so well off the spying scandal, kudos on that, but as for this debate?




    Give it up man. If you expect any respect, you need to man up here and just give it a rest.



    Don't make me look at you as a total slug troll.

    I'm trying to like you.

  86. And don't come back with another long winded speel about tidbits like my bat story.









    If your answer is not to these questions, don't bother to reply.

    Because at that point I will be left to assume you are no more than a cheap right wing hack, a troll, in here to cause trouble and take the talking points away from the actual thread.

    And while I don't mind trolls, I loathe lazy, ignorant ones.

  87. While we are waiting for Big K's no I'm not, here are some DOJ fun facts regarding the joys guns bring to Americans every day.

  88. Eighty percent of guns associated with crimes committed by juveniles and youth are handguns, compared with 70% of gun-related crimes by adults.

  89. Semiautomatic guns were most commonly used by youth (61% for youth vs 47% for adults).

  90. Actually the last two were taken from the AAP (AMERICAN ACADEMY OF PEDIATRICS)

    This next one taken from the DOJ website however kinda seals the deal.

  91. Big K6:55 PM

    Alright Worf,

    Where is your link? I could not find one in your post. I would like to read it.

    My link discussed crimes in the UK and North America and supported it with FBI statistics I have found at other cites. I told you I will look for the report they cite. I have read this stuff before, this is not the first time it has come up in my conversations.

    Your questions


    Um, it says FBI stats on the 18th line.


    21st line under that header.


    At work, and still looking for the original report. But it must exist since I have seen it before and so has everyone familiar with this topic. Type “Subject stabbed, 30% die from their wounds.” In your Google search line and you will find plenty of them from other sources.


    You have been to their site. It is not the most accessible site. If you are so good at finding this stuff. Find the report I am mentioning.


    I did not renew the page before I posted my last response. I did not intend to ignore anything. I would like to review it with a link if you can provide one.

    “Because at that point I will be left to assume you are no more than a cheap right wing hack, a troll, in here to cause trouble and take the talking points away from the actual thread.”

    Now let us not get rude here. Can we not have an honest discussion for a day Worf without insults? I did not think my link was from Canada, but if it is and they have an FBI that conducts these reports and I totally missed that I am sorry. That will be some interesting news to our Canadian friends here that they apparently bleed at a different rate than Americans. Must be the Big Macs we eat.

  92. "Homicides are most often committed with guns, especially handguns"

    US Department of Justice
    Office of Justice Programs

  93. Big K7:00 PM

    Sorry, the 4% quote was the 21st line in the report I cited. Not the other one.

    The report says guns are worse than knives later in the report. Do not feel like counting as I am getting off work. Read the thing, or don’t. But it is in there.

  94. And as for getting rude?

    I haven't even started yet.

    As long as you are playing fair I will. But when you post a link to a Karate Website and call it authoritative, and twist facts around to try and sleep better with that 9mm in your headboard, I don't see a reason to worry about your feelings.

    I post 10 to 1 on you, and you always have some excuse why it takes you 90 minutes to respond to a question about putting up a bs link. Or making claims that maybe your 4 year old would believe, but insulting my intelligence by asserting that humans beings bleed to death in under 5 minutes from a knife wound to a NON vital area.

    Get real.

    This is harball. Play it or don't but don't go crying if you don't like the tone.

  95. Tell you what, heres what I'm gonna do.

    Lets do this again sometime when your not at work, or caring for your sick wife or whatever else you think justifies a 2 hour break everytime I catch you on a misspeak.

    When you have time to rapid fire, well do this again.

    For now, this is a thread about the Spying Scandal, not gun control.

    When Lydia posts a thread on it, and you have the time, we can go down that road. But for now, lets stick to the topic.

    I think 30 off topic posts is sufficient. Don't you?

  96. Big K7:11 PM

    Hey Worf,

    Earlier in the day I said myself there were more deaths by guns. What are you arguing there? Have I ever said that guns were not the weapon of choice? I do not recall making that point. That is all your link said.

    Interestingly, it does point out a mistake I made. I said 40-50 thousand deaths with guns in this country per year. This report is more like 11-15 thousand. Serves me right for reading leftist sites. Sorry guys.

  97. You know what? I take it back.

    You must be nothing more than a lazy little righ winged hack troll.

    When you get home from work, or whatever, why don't you take a gander at the link you just got through defending.







    Are you a troll, or a complete idiot?


    Alright Big K (K=KINARD),

    Tell us where this so called study is in this karate schools By Laws?

  98. Big K7:19 PM

    No link Worf? It is just one line.

    Why do you never post links to your sources even when I ask for them? I do find that strange, as everyone else should. With that I will let you go.

    As for not being able to rapid fire post, I do have responsibilities that do not include this. I enjoy the debate. I want to know more. That is why I honestly want your link, and I wanted your books before.

    But I rarely have the time to sit all day. Between school, work, wife, house, and sleep this is all I got. When I graduate it might be better. That will not be for a while, though.

    I have said it before, and I know others have as well. You have a lifestyle that allows you to sit for long periods of time looking at your screen. I do not, and would not if I could. I need sun, man. You are in a class all by yourself in this regard, and you can have it.

  99. No Link?

    I took mine from the DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE WEBSITE.

    And if you want the link, try SCROLLING UP.

  100. And that's a great copout, I have the time and you don't.

    But somehow, whenever you leave to go home, 12 minutes later you are posting again.

    Funny, you must teleport home, or sit there still at work waiting to see my answer.

  101. Anonymous7:42 PM

    Actually Worf, I did find this sad report on the karate link you provided. Its called "Knife Article" and can be found on the bottom left hand side.

    For me, it seems some fathead ninja dude, is trying to convince people to take expensive karate lessons because there are so many knife attacks out there.

    Of course this ninja dude is not going to hand out pamphlets indicating how karate can stop bullets.

    Johnny moo moo

  102. Big K said...

    Why do you never post links to your sources even when I ask for them

    I DID post my link nimrod.

    Scroll up and try clicking on it.

    You could not miss the link.

    When you click on READ ME AND WEEP, you will be magically be teleported directly to the USDOJ.GOV website, where the FIRST thing you will see is;

    "Homicides are most often committed with guns, especially handguns"

    But I also directly cut and paste my data from the DOJ website, and I openly ANNOUNCED where I got it from.

    You on the other hand post a measly article from a Candadian Karate School that links to an old newspaper article about STATISTICS FROM CANADA!

    And the statistics don't even seem to support your argument!

    And now you're backpedaling, saying "oh, what are we arguing again?".

    What a joke. What an absolute joke.

    I know you take me for a fool, and I guess I am for arguing with a right wing troll like you.

    You were clearly stating that KNIFES ARE WORSE THAN GUNS, when you said "KNIFES ARE WORSE THAN GUNS.

    You can deny it, dance around it, do whatever you want, but you SUMMARIZED your ENTIRE POST with THAT SENTENCE!

    If you are gonna play this change your argument game every time you get your ass whooped, then you can go blow troll.

    Cause your a knucklehead and your wasting my time.

  103. I found it Johnny.
    I said that in a post a few posts ago.

    It was way down there.

    I just have never seen ANYONE in a blog link to some little Karate School to provide Statistics for the FBI.

  104. But the worst part is, I EVERYTIME I get into a discussion with this guy, he gets trounced, then says, "oh, that's not what I was trying to say. Sorry if you misunderstood".

    That is such a cheap, lame troll tactic it makes me want to puke.

    He does it EVERYTIME. And he's doing it now.

    He said several key things. Like you will Bleed to Death in under 5 Minutes from a Knife wound to a NON VITAL AREA of your body.

    Like I am supposed to sit here and say yea, that makes sense..duh...

    And then, in his post he SUMMARIZES his entire argument, with his CLOSING SUMMARY STATEMENT and says, "Knifes are worse than Guns", and then DENIES that was what he said.

    Then I QUOTE him directly and he denies its what he meant!

    Now he's like, oh I am not saying knifes are worse than guns....holy crap! What a bunch of mu#@#@#@**# and stupid f@#@-@#@##@*@*@**@* ignorant @(@#)@@!@!@#@#4^#$^#%^%##@@) and don't forget #(*@@*@##@&#@(@$*@_#_).....

    It's like debating String Theory with a 3 year old.

  105. To summarize the recent posts.........either handgun laws work, or else Canadian and British kids can't shoot worth a crap.

  106. Thanks Kirk.

    I am afraid I am starting to

  107. Anonymous8:26 PM

    Well, your 4:21 PM post did almost make me spray, luke warm, raspberry/chocolate flavoured coffee all over my computer.

    At the same time I took a big gulp of coffee, I started to read this post; it took all my willpower to hold the coffee in while wanting to burst out laughing.

    Johnny moo moo

  108. Yes Johnny, an oldy but a goody :D

  109. Rasberry flavored coffee?

    Is that like a Canadian thing?

  110. Anonymous8:34 PM

    MMMMMMMM........good :D

    Johnny moo moo

  111. I want some too...:o

  112. Anonymous8:42 PM

    NO! :O All for me...Im very greedy.

    Johnny moo moo

  113. In Vancouver, self-defense is not considered a valid or legal reason to purchase a handgun.

    Concealed weapons are not permitted.

    Recreational uses of handguns (target shooting, collecting) are
    regulated by the province.

    Purchase of a handgun requires a
    restricted-weapons permit.

    A permit to carry may be obtained in order to transport the weapon to licensed shooting clubs.

    Handguns transported by vehicle must be stored in the trunk in a locked box.

    In short, gun control but not unreasonably so.

  114. Anonymous8:46 PM

    Just kiddin are always welcome at my house for coffee.

    Johnny moo moo

  115. Anonymous8:47 PM

    Funny. When Reagan was in office all the Libs I ever encountered were sure we were going to be in another world war.

    Didn't happen.

    Now Lydia says our Constitution is dangling by a thread?

    That's a laugh.

    Looks like the sky's gonna fall.

  116. Yea anonymous whoever you are.

    George Bush is NO Ronald Reagan..

    But for all our sakes I do hope you're right.

  117. That Canada gun law post was for you Johnny.

    I ran across it and remembered you talking about it earlier.

    Thought you'd find it amusing.

  118. Anonymous8:55 PM

    Yes, I have known this for years. The police can also come to your home when ever they feel like it and make sure its locked in a safe and the ammo is locked away in another seperate safe.

    Johnny moo moo

  119. Wow, thats messed up.

    See guys like Big K think I want to take away their fun.

    I don't. We just need stricter laws, and it sounds like you need a lax in your laws.

  120. Anonymous9:01 PM

    Funny thing is , the good people are doing this, while the criminals are not.

    Johnny moo moo

  121. I just think that a guy named "noodles" driving a 79 Black Eldorado who says he says he "just wants it to start a business" should have a 2 week waiting period before they hand him a 358 Magnum Rifle with a Night Scope and a bipod mount.

    Know what I mean?

  122. Anonymous9:03 PM


    Johnny moo moo

  123. Anonymous9:08 PM

    But BIG K does seem to be a nice responsible family man.

    Johnny moo moo

  124. Anonymous9:09 PM

    And Like I said before, even a reasonable decent citizen may be tempted to use it while under a little stress.

    Johnny moo moo

  125. Acutally if you scroll up, you will see I posted an entire study done on this where it was demonstrated that while most deaths by knife occured with the sole intent to kill, most handgun deaths occurred in a single moment of blinding rage.

    And of course that makes sense.

  126. But enough about guns.

    You guys will have to get Lydia to write an thread on gun control, lol.

    The Spy Scandal is really heating up, with top republicans going on record as saying it looks like Bush broke the law.

    I think this could be their Achille's heel.

    Time will tell. (not the magazine).

  127. Anonymous9:12 PM

    Ive read all the posts and have been following this interesting debate.

    Johnny moo moo

  128. "You cannot wiretap in the United States without a warrant.

    It doesnt matter if he (Bush) asked congress.

    It's not legal."

    Kate Martin
    Director Center for National Security Studies

  129. BS ALERT

    Be warned.

    You will soon hear the Bush administration referring to this issue by their new damage control name, The Terrorist Surveillance Program.

    You heard it here first folks.

  130. Big K said"Bush, as president has been very prolific on the other hand. His first term he got 80% of his proposals into law. Reagan did not even do that. No one has in over 100 years. So, I have some respect for Bush."

    I think you need to take off the blinders or rose colored glasses, Bush deceived the American public to pass half of those laws, the rest were either passed using fear tactics or were carried out illegally and are clearly in conflict with the principles of our constitution as defined by our founding fathers.

    What about Adolph Hitler, he was a dictator that made 100% of his proposals into law, his word was law, according to your theory should he be labeled prolific and be respected as well. Bush or should I say "Big Brother" is a criminal and a joke and our founding fathers would be turning over in their graves if they saw what he was doing to The Constitution and our civil liberties

  131. Terrorist Surveilance Program, wouldnt surprise me a bit, his lame attempt at trying to justify it, every other word out of his mouth is terrorists or war or keeping us safe, I dont need or want his kind of safety.Now hes trying to sell his "Spying on Americans Agenda" I hope i'm wrong but I could see something bad actually happening so he can justify his corupt spying agenda. I too am kind of suspicious the threat level hasnt been raised, I just hope something bad doesnt happen and then that sleazy opportunist uses it to justify his Spying program to GAG GAG!!! "keep Us Safe"

  132. Ok dimwit,

    I wanted the site you mentioned that discussed people killing their spouses. You know, the one you said I ignored. The link you posted I did read. And I told you that I did. It points out that criminals prefer guns. No!! Hold the presses!!

    I think I found the site, you can prove me wrong.

    If that is the case, it does not show the number of people stabbed or shot vs the number of deaths. You know, what I was looking for discussing the lethality of the weapons. It does point out that, again, people who decide to kill someone use a gun most often.

    As for my knives worse than guns comment, if you were dim enough not to get my original intent then I did explain it for you a few times. In words I thought you would understand. I know I can be a bit of a sesquipedalian on occasion, but I dumbed that one down for you pretty good. I will try harder. But if someone explains their context, why do you keep beating that dead horse?

    And you lied, bastard. The link you put up that you said I did was to the main page of that school. It is truncated, missing that last part that brings you to the link I mentioned. The link brings you to something not written by anyone at that school. I said if you put in the exact words in google you would find the information posted on many sites. Like these

    It was written by Darren Laur, a cop and personal defense trainer. I emailed him to forward me a copy of the FBI report if he can. I can post his entire reply when I get it.

    Good night.

    PS. when I usually say I am leaving I do stay at work and finish a thought if I think it is relevant. If you do not like it, sue me.

  133. Mike, well put! You said: "Bush deceived the American public to pass half of those laws, the rest were either passed using fear tactics or were carried out illegally and are clearly in conflict with the principles of our constitution as defined by our founding fathers."

    BIG K, you said: "Bush, as president has been very prolific on the other hand. His first term he got 80% of his proposals into law. Reagan did not even do that. No one has in over 100 years. So, I have some respect for Bush."

    Bush had a lot of help from the very organized religious right-wing, which has been planning this coup d'etat for 30 years. Even the Catholics were hoodwinked into believing they had to vote for this wicked group and their corrupt agenda based on their attachment to the abortion and gay issues. You see, Bush, Rove, Cheney, very cleverly married themselves to the religious right in order to gain the votes of those who think in absolutes, who "hate" anyone who has nuance in his perspective, who values life in every aspect, not just the unborn. But this has been systematic brainwashing. It's as if people are on drug, all they talk about is "the unborn" but never consider the massive killings and lust for death this administration is responsible for. And the hate-speak Have you ever been to CPAC? How about CPAC 2000! These conservatives sound like fringe lunatics in their hatred of Democrats, and this is not the Democratic nation founded by our forefathers. This is very similar to fascist Germany, I am not kidding. Please Big K and Freedom Fan do your research. Please try to put yourself in our shoes and see what we're seeing.

    Did you know about the depleted uranium that has killed over 11,000 of our soldiers from the first Gulf War? Not to mention the contamination/radiation in the weapons right now. Our poor military will be feeling the effects of this depleted uranium for the rest of their lives. "By their fruits you shall know them." Bush has produced very little constructive "fruits". Look at Katrina, look at health care, look at the lives lost - A GREAT LEADER OF A DEMOCRATIC NATION DOES NOT INVADE, CONQUER OR GO OUT OF HIS WAY TO START WARS, ESPECIALLY IF HE'S A CHRISTIAN! What kind of Christianity are you espousing???? We have lost as many of our own as we did in 911, not to mention the 16,0000 permanently maimed. "By their fruits you shall know them."


  134. Correction: CPAC 2002 is where Ann Coulter and many others spewed unbelievable hatred toward anyone from the other "party".

    I just found this great post from WORFEUS:

    " If you can't see the difference between intervening in a fist fight to help someone on our own soil, and travelling across the ocean against the will of the entire world, to wage all out war on a civilian population, contributing to what by our own standards equates to genocide, in a foreign land and in a soverign nation, then I am not sure if I can help you."

  135. At this point no one has a clue what point you are trying to make or if you even have one.

    Your a waste of my time.

  136. Oh darn, there I go again.


    I just cut myself again Johnny..

    I was just whittling this little stick here and I slipped and sliced open my finger.

    Call 911.

    Hurry. :|

    I have less than 5 minutes before all the blood drains out of my body.

  137. Darn, if I die I won't be able to talk to Big K's Cop friend....

    And I was so looking forward to that too...

    Wasn't it nice of him to let us know he emailed a cop for us? A cop who knows the FBI?

    That was nice.

    Big K must really be a good friend to everyone here, and I bet he wants only the best for us.

    Now wheres my ambulance?

    Only 3 minutes left.

  138. Oh great.

    Now I'm screwed.

    Thanks a lot Johnny. :|

  139. Now what the hell am I supposed to do?

  140. Prophet3:28 AM

    Oh thank god....we're finally rid of that pesky loquacious Worfeus! (But for his specter I fear...)

  141. Anonymous4:49 AM

    Excellent! Ghost of Worfeus, now that your a ghost, maybe you can answer that big question for me?

    I do, however, admit I am a little unnerved by the thought of you floating to my house to check me out. LOL :D

    Johnny moo moo


    He produced those really cool bumper stickers that are just a "W".

    Next time you see someone with one on their car.....pull up next to them and roll down the window and say, "excuse me sir/maam, but someone has put a nazi sticker on the back of your car."

    I can't take credit for that....I got it from Carville....he loves to do it.

  143. Johnny Moo Moo - I needed to lighten up, so I posted a little humor for you.

  144. Hey Johnny.....congratulations on your PM election in Canada.....I guess it means you guys will soon be our bi**h just like England ;-)

    In other news.....ANWAR was just opened up .....and they drilled 40 wells and didn't find any oil......but then they realized that a company run by GWB was doing the drilling.

  145. James W8:11 AM


    Glad to see you're lightening up on your new blog today.

  146. Anonymous10:44 AM

    Better watch out.

  147. James W10:46 AM

    I love John McCain and would have liked to see him get the nomination but the Bush team managed to smear him horribly by maligning him. Does anyone remember what they said about him?

  148. Johnny, is that you?

    Its kinda freaky here in the netherworld.

    I can only hear or speak to mystics, mediums and spiritualists, so I am assuming you have the gift, because I can hear you.

    As for floating to your house?

    You may want to restock the liquour cabinet.

  149. Anonymous11:26 AM

    That Ghost of Worfeus is awesome.

    and Johnny as for restocking the liquor cabinet, make sure you have some Captain Morgan, and i'm there as well.


  150. Hold on a second, I hear a faint voice.

    Is that you Mike?

    I can hear you. :D.

    Its spooky being a spook.

  151. maxmixt11:36 AM

    BOOBGATE is hilarious! Thanks for updating your blog. Would like to see more humor like this more often. Laughter can save the world. Also like the Stuart Smalley comment. Please post it again.

  152. Dagnabbit.

    Tell Johnny not to worry about the liquour.

    I just tried to drink this bottle of Blackberry Brandy I found in the cupboard but it just went right through me and onto the floor.

  153. Well, one things for sure, us spooks can't hold our liqour.

  154. Now what the hell am I supposed to do?

  155. Some News from the Other Side
    Army Stretched to Breaking Point
    AP Military Writer 39 minutes ago

    Stretched by frequent troop rotations to Iraq and Afghanistan, the Army has become a "thin green line" that could snap unless relief comes soon, according to a study for the Pentagon.

    Andrew Krepinevich, a retired Army officer who wrote the report under a Pentagon contract, concluded that the Army cannot sustain the pace of troop deployments to Iraq long enough to break the back of the insurgency.

    He also suggested that the Pentagon's decision, announced in December, to begin reducing the force in Iraq this year was driven in part by a realization that the Army was overextended.

  156. Today in Maryland a 7 year old Girl, was ACCIDENTLY SHOT, by a 8 year old boy.

    The shooting took place in an Elementary School.

    Good thing the boy only had a gun and not a knife.

  157. We need more guns.

    If the 7 year old girl had a gun, she could have defended herself from that 8 year old boy.

    Even if it was an accident, she still could have shot back, discouraging any future accidents.

    Whats wrong with our school system?

    Arm the little buggers.

  158. WHat the hell was an 8 year old boy doing with a gun in school!...... I can't assume he has a mom and dad at home but who ever gave him this gun (or didn't lock it up so he couldn't get it) deserves a serious @$$ whuppin.

  159. Kirk.

    You must be a medium.

    I can hear you too :D

    Apparently the gun was daddy's.

  160. It has now been demonstrated that Bush new Abramoff back when he was the Govenor of Texas.

  161. Anonymous3:02 PM

    Lydia said

    " Before trying that technique, I want to muck around in the dirt a little first".


    That was pretty funny and its awfully nice to see you laugh - I dont think I ever seen you laugh before? Made me feel cheerful & bright.

    Nothing wrong with a little muckin, after all, you are human.

    Johnny moo moo

  162. Anonymous3:14 PM

    Thanx KIRK....I think?

    You mean we werent before? lol

    Johnny moo moo

  163. Anonymous3:26 PM

    Worf I did in fact stock the bar for you and Mike.... two of my three psychiatrists told me that the answer can be found in the bottle.

    Sorry though, you are just going to have to watch us drink it all.

    Thats sad about that little girl. If that was my kid I dont know what I would do.

    Johnny moo moo

  164. Actually I think many Americans admired Canada's sense of independence, and ability to exist without meddling in everyone elses affairs.

    Now it looks like all Canadians, after watching the US founder under slapstick administrations bumblings, and seeing our current sorry state of affairs, decided Hey, we want that too!.

    Apparently Canadians think after 6 years of the US making a mess of everything, they decided that they wanted to get in on that action.

    Or do you guys have computerized voting now too?

  165. Anonymous3:47 PM

    Ghost of Worf

    I really dont want to bore people with Canadian politics, but, we still use little paper ballots.

    At least in the area where I live anyway.

    Johnny moo moo

  166. Well thats pretty scary.

    That means most of you looked at America for the past 6 years, Katrina, Iraq, Bushgate and all, and said, works for me.

    Thats freaky.

  167. Glad I'm dead now.

    Otherwise I'd be scared.

  168. Anonymous4:00 PM

    And not most of us Ghost of Worf, the conservatives have a minority govrenment. Their powers are very limited :D

    Johnny moo moo

  169. Anonymous4:00 PM

    I didnt...too lazy. I would vote for NDP or Liberal first though. Honestly, I cant stand the conservatives and have never voted for them in my life.

    Johnny moo moo

  170. I figured as much but I rescinded my question.

    I figured it was too personal.

    Do you notice a difference in people in your town?

    I know when the right took over here, people went nuts.

    Mailmen acting as homeland spies, people sicking the FBI on people who spoke out, singing groups being boycotted by self righteous idiots, it was a mess.

    Well, I guess now its your turn.

  171. Anonymous4:09 PM

    Well, it aint that bad ,but I have heard some pretty creepy proposals and read funny things in the newspapers.

    Johnny moo moo

  172. Voltaire4:15 PM

    January 23, 2006

    What American Intelligence & Especially the NSA Have Been Doing to Defend the Nation

    Remarks by General Michael V. Hayden to the National Press Club

    "This is targeted and focused. This is not about intercepting conversations between people
    in the United States. This is hot pursuit of communications entering or leaving America
    involving someone we believe is associated with al Qaeda. We bring to bear all the
    technology we can to ensure that this is so. And if there were ever an anomaly, and we
    discovered that there had been an inadvertent intercept of a domestic-to-domestic call,
    that intercept would be destroyed and not reported. But the incident, what we call
    inadvertent collection, would be recorded and reported. But that's a normal NSA
    procedure. It's been our procedure for the last quarter century. And as always, as we
    always do when dealing with U.S. person information, as I said earlier, U.S. identities are
    expunged when they're not essential to understanding the intelligence value of any report.
    Again, that's a normal NSA procedure.

    So let me make this clear. When you're talking to your daughter at state college, this
    program cannot intercept your conversations. And when she takes a semester abroad to
    complete her Arabic studies, this program will not intercept your communications.

    Let me emphasize one more thing that this program is not -- and, look, I know how hard it
    is to write a headline that's accurate and short and grabbing. But we really should shoot
    for all three -- accurate, short and grabbing. I don't think domestic spying makes it. One
    end of any call targeted under this program is always outside the United States. I've flown
    a lot in this country, and I've taken literally hundreds of domestic flights. I have never
    boarded a domestic flight in the United States of America and landed in Waziristan. In the
    same way -- and I'm speaking illustratively here now, this is just an example -- if NSA had
    intercepted al Qaeda Ops Chief Khalid Shaikh Mohammed in Karachi talking to Mohamed
    Atta in Laurel, Maryland, in say, July of 2001 -- if NSA had done that, and the results had
    been made public, I'm convinced that the crawler on all the 7 by 24 news networks would
    not have been "NSA domestic spying." "


    No psychics on this board re:
    "terrorist surveillance program"

    It's been called that since at least last year....

  173. Bush never met Abramoff either, right?

    Cause thats what you guys said last week.

    This week, we know you are lying.

  174. Voltaire4:26 PM

    Confusion Over Health Impact of Depleted Uranium Shells

    "Thousands of military personnel were "exposed to" radioactive DU during the Gulf War, while handling shells, riding in tanks, etc. Fortunately, the radioactivity is so faint that mere exposure to it poses little discernible health risk to humans. The material is still radioactive but, when manufactured into armor and anti-tank shells, not dangerously so."

  175. Voltaire4:29 PM

    ghost of worfeus is full of sheet...

  176. To those of you dumb enough to believe that Bush is only monitoring calls from Alqueada, then besides having some prime Floridian real estate for you to examine, examine this.

    In 2003 we saw on the evening news for weeks how there was soooo much data, NSA could not go through it all.

    They even showed us on the evening news inside of NSA at Ft Meade, where they were they said ALL American calls pass are able to be monitored.

    They explained how all calls are screened for keywords, so when someone say bomb or president in Iowa they can trace it, record it etc.

    Now when WORFEUS was alive, he knew something about data and telecommunications, analog to digital conversion, data storage and security etc.

    So trust his ghost on this.

    When Bush talks about capturing calls from the central exchanges what he is talking about is that ALL calls that pass outside of a local LATA go through digital switches.

    Once the data is converted to digital form, it can be offloaded to a SANS network for data warehousing and later data mining.

    In other words, all calls are being recorded, digitally.

    Massive supercomputers perform keyword signature searches looking for whatever the soup de jour is at the moment.

    Down the road, this data can be used for non terror related activities.

    In fact they are already talking about using it to catch child molesters.

    Why child molesters? Easy. Because they know people won't say no to using the data to supposedly catch such evil criminals.

    But the bar will continued to be lowered on the use of the data until the America we knew ceases to be.

    Know this, the fools who support these measures, saying its to keep us safe are not Americans, they are cowards.

    Cowards and traitors who trade our liberties and rights for their cowardice.

    But cowards like these are critical for the rise of any dictatorial regime.

    They are the yeast in the dough.

  177. "If tyranny and oppression come to this land, it will be in the guise of fighting a foreign enemy"

    President James Madison

  178. Of course, you can always believe the right wing trolls and their Bush is God propaganda.

    Just rememember this, a little while ago the White House was denying that there even were any warrantless searches.

    Now we learn the TRUTH, or at least part of it.

    It was only after the facts were out and they were FORCED to admit it that they finally fessed up.

    So lets see, how does that ole Crawdad Texass saying go?

    Oh yea,

    "fool me once...shame on
    fool me't fool me agin,
    can't git fooled agin"

  179. Anonymous5:07 PM

    Actually, I checked out a website lately and was stunned to discover that Sean Penn hired Andrew Daulton Lee in 1998 as his personal assistant - wonder if he still works for him?

    Johnny moo moo

  180. 2 Weeks ago the smug little wormwood Scott McClellan said in an official White House Press meeting to a reporter who asked how many White House staff meetings Abramoff attended, little snot nosed Scotty said "I don't have those facts now, but I promise to get back to you with a detailed report".

    Last week when asked for the status of that report, and when we were going to know how many White House staff meetings Abramoff attended, he said "uh...we don't comment on White House staff meetings".

    Now maybe some of you want to take a big juicy bite of the platter full of horse manure that they have served up to the public, poured ketchup on and called it meatloaf, but I ain't biting.

    Even if I were alive and could eat it.

  181. If the Bush administration or its supporters lips are moving, they are lying.

  182. Anonymous5:16 PM

    “We've finally given liberals a war against fundamentalism, and they don't want to fight it. They would, except it would put them on the same side as the United States.”

    Ann Coulter

  183. "I believe there are more instances of the abridgement of freedom of the people by gradual and silent encroachments by those in power than by violent and sudden usurpations"

    President James Madison

  184. hmmm...gradual and SILENT.....hmmm

  185. Of course, the cowards will tell you "its to keep us all safe" and we are at war with a perpetual and unseen enemy who lies in wait to harm us".

    I don't know about you but cowards like this make me want to puke (if I still had my stomach).

    By creating the threat of an unseen enemy, and a perpetual war, they can simply take whatever they want with regards to privacy, and anyone who is against they can say are unpatriotic.

    Only a complete fool could not see this.

    But I think they do see. I think they are just cowards, plain and simple, who deserve neither security or liberty.

  186. "No nation could preserve its freedom in the midst of continual warfare"

    James Madison

  187. “We've finally given liberals a war against fundamentalism, and they don't want to fight it"

    Eva Braun

    Someone tell Frau I mean Frau Coulter that it's not a war against fundementalism.

    Its a war between two fundamentalist loonball groups.

    The Bloodthirsty Murdering Fundementalist Muslim LOONS, and the Bloodthirsty Murdering Fundementalist Christian LOONS.

  188. I have never seen a bigger bunch of sissies and cowards than the current right wing.

    They'd sell out their own mother if they thought it would keep them safe.

  189. Anonymous5:47 PM

    Do you REALLY think they are afraid Worf, or do you just think they are blindly loyal to the Right Wing, personally I think its the latter, I'd be willing to bet If a Democrat was in the Whitehouse doing and saying the exact same things they would be crying bloody murder that "we dont need our government to protect us" to me the "protection" rhetoric is all a classic power grab.


  190. I personally have no problem with the wire taps...AS LONG AS YOU GET A WARRANT.

    Sorry....not getting a warrant is breaking the law the same way perjury is. Especially since you have like 3 days AFTER you tap the phone to actually get the warrant.

  191. Anonymous5:52 PM

    It's not about safety, it's about war profiteering. Take my word for this. Cheney, Rove, Ralph Reed and the guys who put Bush in power -- these guys are global profiteers who only care about padding their hidden bank accounts so they don't have to pay taxes or help pay for this war. The war was supposed to be covered by oil profits from Iraq's oil supply.

  192. Mike said
    "Do you REALLY think they are afraid Worf, or do you just think they are blindly loyal to the Right Wing"

    Well, I think its both.

    I think the latter is true for the decision makers and the primary supporters, and the former in your question, is true for the sheep they are targeting, which is close to half the country strong.

    Now I don't have a problem with people being afraid of dying. (I was until I did).

    But to tell the rest of us that the freedoms that made America great have to be traded away so they can feel safer and keep me safer?

    I got one thing to say to that.

    Don't bother.

  193. Kirk12 said...
    I personally have no problem with the wire taps...AS LONG AS YOU GET A WARRANT

    Wow, this must be a seance.

    Kirk, I agree with you to a point.

    I have no problem with legally authorized wiretaps for a purpose.

    But go back and read my post on the digital switching.

    I can assure you right now, that we are NOT talking about a few wiretaps for calls from Osama Bin Laden to US traitors.

    They are now monitoring ALL US digitally switched calls, and warehousing the data for digital signature and keyword searches.

  194. "It's not about safety, it's about war profiteering"
    - anonymous


    To a point.

    While it is obvious from the Katrina disaster, the lack of protection for the troops, our nations wide open porous borers, etc, that the LAST thing on this adminsitrations mind is the safety of the American people.

    But safety is how they sell it.

  195. Anonymous7:49 PM

    Ghost of Worfeus

    Before I go to bed, I would like to point out that I think it would be very interesting if you could float over to Ann Coulters house and hover over her bed and tell us what you see?

    Books on her nite table, pajama type, what she looks like without makeup, etc.....

    Johnny moo moo

  196. What am I, Jacob Marley?

    I would do it but there are some things just too scary.

    Even for a Ghost.

  197. Books on her nite table, pajama type, what she looks like without makeup, etc.....

    Here, I'll take a guess.

    1.Books on her nite table?

    Hmm..a 2 year old Soldier of Fortune mag, a well worn paperback entitled The Apprentice and an autographed copy of Mein Kampf?

    2. Pajama type?

    Kevlar Dragon Suit?

    3. What she looks like without makeup?

    A pipe cleaner with a mouth?

  198. Mike said
    "Do you REALLY think they are afraid Worf, or do you just think they are blindly loyal to the Right Wing"

    Worfeus Said "Well, I think its both.
    I think the latter is true for the decision makers and the primary supporters, and the former in your question, is true for the sheep they are targeting, which is close to half the country strong."

    I think youre right on the money Worfeus that the decision makers and primary supporters are just blindly loyal and dont buy the crap the administration is selling about "protecting us", but I would include the Right wing trolls who come to this site in the Primary supporter group, as I dont really think I buy the I'm afraid and want my government to protect me garbage, I think they are just blindly loyal to the Right Wing. (I also agree that they are out to deceive the masses with their fear tactics)

    What I dont understand is that these Right Wing Trolls call Liberals flip flopers and hippocrites, but yet they talk out of both sides of their mouth. On one hand they piously claim they dont want or need Government to take care of them or protect them, then while talking out of the other side of their mouth they claim to be afraid and want George Bush and our Govenment to protect them. they also say Liberals are always sacrificing our civil liberties and trying to change the Constitution, When this is exactly what the Right Wing is trying to do in the name of fear, and to me its a transparent powrer grab

    Worf as stated earlier, I agree that the sheep these guys are trying to deceive may actually really have bought this garbage and be afraid, but I dont believe the Right Wing guys posting here truly believe that, I think they are blindly loyal deluded fanatics.