Thursday, February 05, 2009

THIS IS A GREAT STIMULUS BILL * READ IT !!

TEAR DOWN THIS MYTH!! DON'T LISTEN to unpatriotic Republican/Obstructionists who are trying to destroy our country. Rush Limbaugh, Mark Levin and Sean Hannity should be indicted for treason — for "hoping our president fails" and for spreading lies and propaganda about this stimulus plan.

This is a very, very good bill. Here are some facts about what the bill really does:

* Creates or saves 3 million to 4 million jobs in the next two years.
* Averts "literally hundreds of thousands of teacher layoffs"—and doubles funding for the Department of Education.
* Creates 500,000 green jobs and doubles our clean energy production.
* Immediately helps unemployed folks get affordable health insurance.


If President Obama's economic stimulus plan doesn't pass, we're in deep trouble. Even John McCain's economic adviser estimates that without the stimulus, unemployment would top 11% by 2010, the highest level since the Great Depression. Who had power the past 8 years and drove our economy into the ground with their 3 trillion dollar war and giant bonues for corporate CEOs?

...Read more below, but first, this message:

TEAR DOWN THIS MYTH! On Monday February 9, 2009, Will Bunch will be the guest on theBasham and Cornell Radio Show at 8 am Pacific Time on AM 1230 KLAV in Las Vegas.

Will Bunch is an award-winning political journalist, a senior writer at the Philadelphia Daily News, and author of its popular blog, "Attytood." His new book is titled "Tear Down This Myth: How the Reagan Legacy Has Distorted Our Politics and Haunts Our Future."

Ad: From the Las Vegas Review Journal

Basham and Cornell Radio Show at 8 am Pacific Time on AM 1230 KLAV in Las Vegas and simulcast worldwide on the web.

In this provocative new book, Will unravels the story of how a right-wing cabal hijacked the mixed legacy of Ronald Reagan, a personally popular but hugely divisive 1980s president, and turned him into a bronze icon to revive their fading ideology. They succeeded to the point where all the GOP candidates for president in 2008 scurried to claim his mantle, no matter how preposterous the fit.

With clear eyes and an ever-present wit, Bunch reveals the truth about the Ronald Reagan legacy, including the following:

* Despite the idolatry of the last fifteen years, Reagan's average popularity as president was only, well, average, lower than that of a half-dozen modern presidents. More important, while he was in office, a majority of Americans opposed most of his policies and by 1988 felt strongly that the nation was on the wrong track. Reagan's 1981 tax cut, weighted heavily toward the rich, did not cause the economic recovery of the 1980s. It was fueled instead by dropping oil prices, the normal business cycle, and the tight fiscal policies of the chairman of the Federal Reserve appointed by Jimmy Carter. Reagan's tax cut did, however, help usher in the deregulated modern era of CEO and Wall Street greed.

* Most historians agree that Reagan's waste-ridden military buildup didn't actually "win the Cold War." And Reagan mythmakers ignore his real contributions -- his willingness to talk to his Soviet adversaries, his genuine desire to eliminate nuclear weapons, and the surprising role of a "liberal" Hollywood-produced TV movie.

* George H. W. Bush's and Bill Clinton's rolling back of Reaganomics during the 1990s spurred a decade of peace and prosperity as well as the reactionary campaign to pump up the myth of Ronald Reagan and restore right-wing hegemony over Washington. This effort has led to war, bankrupt energy policies, and coming generations of debt.

With masterful insight, Bunch exposes this dangerous effort to reshape America's future by rewriting its past. As the Obama administration charts its course, he argues, it should do so unencumbered by the dead weight of misplaced and unearned reverence.

Wall Street Insiders Whine Over Obama Executive Pay Limits: ‘$500,000 Is Not A Lot Of Money’....

THESE MEN ARE LYING TO YOU:

Who had power the past 8 years and drove our economy into the ground with their 3 trillion dollar war and giant bonues for corporate CEOs? Don't listen to Obstructionist Republicans who are trying to destroy our country. If President Obama's economic stimulus plan doesn't pass, we're in deep trouble. Even John McCain's economic adviser estimates that without the stimulus, unemployment would top 11% by 2010, the highest level since the Great Depression.

RUSH LIMBAUGH IS UNPATRIOTIC AND A DISGRACE TO OUR NATION

** Most Republican governors have broken with their GOP colleagues in Congress and are pushing for passage of President Barack Obama's economic aid plan that would send billions to states for education, public works and health care.

This stimulus plan is the BEST plan for recovery. Conservative talking points are dominating the media's coverage and there's lots of misinformation around. Here are a few things you may not have heard about it:

1) This is a very, very good bill. As The Nation writes, "If enacted, the economic recovery plan will be one of the biggest and boldest pieces of progressive legislation in the past forty years."

This is a very, very good bill. Here are some facts about what the bill really does:

* Creates or saves 3 million to 4 million jobs in the next two years.2
* Averts "literally hundreds of thousands of teacher layoffs"—and doubles funding for the Department of Education.3
* Creates 500,000 green jobs and doubles our clean energy production.4
* Immediately helps unemployed folks get affordable health insurance.5

Some folks are arguing that it should be bigger, and they're probably right, but this is the best down payment on economic recovery we have seen, and it needs to be passed.

2) The stuff that's being singled out for criticism amounts to a tiny fraction of the bill—like anti-smoking programs that make up less than one-ten-thousandth of the spending.6 They would have you believe this is the centerpiece of the bill. It is not. This kind of nit-picking is pure politics.

3) If it doesn't pass, we're in deep trouble. Even John McCain's economic adviser estimates that without the stimulus, unemployment would top 11% by 2010, the highest level since the Great Depression.7

"Obama's proposed cap on salaries for top executives of bailed-out corporations is a first step: next, there should be inquiries into who, exactly, caused the financial crisis." Just the Beginning
JOHN NICHOLS, The Nation |


We all urgently need to get these facts out before the public. Can you write a letter to the editor of your local paper about how the stimulus will affect real people? Our tool makes writing a letter really easy. Click here to get started:

Click here!

Last week alone, 100,000 people lost their jobs in this country.8 So we need to make sure the Senate takes action quickly. Nearly 200 economists from across the political spectrum wrote to Congress, agreeing:
"We do not have the luxury of a lengthy debate over the best course of action. This legislation may not be enough to solve all the economy's problems, but it is urgently needed and an important step in the right direction."9

But with so much rhetoric and demagoguery surrounding the bill, it won't pass unless we can get the real facts out to a wide audience.

SEND A LETTER TO YOUR LOCAL NEWSPAPER NOW. Please....?

Basham and Cornell Radio Show at 8 am Pacific Time on AM 1230 KLAV in Las Vegas and simulcast worldwide on the web.

Coming up: A review of THE READER, my pic as most haunting, complex film...

251 comments:

  1. Lydia, the republicans KNOW they drove the economy and entire country into the ditch because of their brain dead policies of giving the rich everything they wanted and expecting greedy people to share.

    The republican'ts called it trickle down, but the rich though piss on all them they won't know the difference.

    Now that that bankrupt policy has been exposed for the fraud it always was, the reich-wing also kn ow they have only one card left to play;

    block, lie, spin, and delay any changes which might correct the economy from republican't mismanagement, hoping the economy totally falls apart so they can blame Obama and the democratic party,

    BECAUSE if Obama succeeds even by a little the republican't neo-con brand is finished forever.

    The far right want to stay on the corporate welfare rolls where they have lived since Reagan's time of starting that particular way of feeding the greedy rich and their mongrel lackey minions.

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  2. Exactly right Clif!

    And by the way, conservative pundits on ALL THE CABLE CHANNELS outnumber liberal or Democratic ones by 4:1!!

    Volt - not just radio and FOX faux news.

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  3. Great article on the Bill.

    While I'd like to see more done to stimulate lending the fact is this Bill will make a difference now, and much more so than Bush handing out money to the banks and "hoping" they'd spend it wisely.

    This bill needs to pass now. If we need more down the road we'll do more, but right now it's ridiculous what the republicans are doing.

    They gave Bush whatever he asked for without batting an eye and he squandered it.

    They owe President Obama their support.

    They owe the country their support.

    This Bill needs to pass NOW.

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  4. They are the knuckleheads that created this disaster by deregulating lending, and now they are acting like they had nothing to do with it.

    They have no voice left in this matter.

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  5. Remember the reich wing id-jets screeching about voter fraud?

    Well Norm Coleman is working on it;

    Sen. Coleman's lawyers are pushing to include an absentee ballot from a man who voted in Pine County even though he was a resident of another county. Now they're arguing that the ballot should be included because even though the voter lived in a different country, at the time of the election, he was in the Pine County jail.

    Of course this is after he has tried to;

    Coleman lawyer pleads for another forger's ballot to be entered into Coleman's pile.

    This time it's even better. The guy in question apparently forged a ballot for his wife. So Coleman admits he's probably not entitled to that one. But he's holding out for the forger's own ballot.

    which happened after;

    Coleman witness and alleged 'disenfranchised' Coleman voter admits absentee fraud on the stand.

    And this came out on direct examination.


    It looks like old Normy needs his own Katherine Harris or Ken Blackwell, too bad that style of reich-wing cheating is about over,

    Besides old Normy might wanna save his money for the investigations into the mega dollars his wife got paid from one of his biggest criminal supporters.


    Oh yeah, Normy tried to use the Bush Vs Gore decision of the Supreme Court even though the court said NOT to use it.

    Minnesota Election Court Nixes Coleman's Bush v. Gore Gambit, Denies Motion To Count 4,500 Ballots

    Reich-wingers sleazy to the bitter end.

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  6. Lydia,

    Okay, I've read the bill all the way through. I like a lot of it in fact I like enough to give it my support. It's not exactly how I'd do it but the reality is that you're not going to everything you want.
    I agree with Bartlebee about the lending. I think he's spot on.

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  7. Thanks for reading it Frank.

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  8. I think the goal of the republicans is clear here.

    Obstruction and stonewalling until either they get President Obama upset enough to end his bi partisan approach (which is hurting them badly) or block everything he does.

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  9. Bart they haven't considered a third option to operation neo-con reich-wing blockade,

    EPIC FAIL,

    just like the suffered in 2006 and 2008 .....

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  10. Of course lending has to return before anything works, so while I want this bill passed we don't have to pretend its the only bill that will ever come out of congress again. We just passed one last quarter.

    Things like a 15,000 tax break for home buyers and a 1500 tax break for auto buyers (something that's in this bill) are good moves to help those markets but of course they'll only work if the people can get the mortgages and auto loans to buy those homes and vehicles.

    Lending is still the key but I believe this bill will stop the hemmoraging at least, and keep us from going under. It won't take much to get lending going, just some federal imsurance or a lending fund like I suggested. 150 billion would do it I think, although I'll leave the amounts to them. Just get lending going and this bill will have laid a foundation for job creation and incentives and that coupled with a return of lending and we could be looking at the next economic boom.

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  11. The problem that is rapidly approaching however, is that for lending to stimulate the economy we need people to borrow. Right now there are still plenty of Americans working. A lot have lost jobs but most have not. If lending doesn't return soon, those people will lose their jobs eventually, and then lending will become moot because no one will have a job to pay the loans back.

    Then all we'll have left is the dole.

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  12. I guess reich-wing media empires ain't all they were cracked up to be;

    The News Corporation, the media empire controlled by Rupert Murdoch, said Thursday that it lost $6.4 billion in the second quarter as profit fell sharply at its television and movie units and it took a write-down on its newspaper assets.

    Mr. Murdoch, the chairman and chief executive, said the economy deteriorated faster than anticipated in the last three months.

    “Our results for the quarter are a direct reflection of the grim economic climate,” he said. “While we anticipated a weakening, the downturn is more severe and likely longer lasting than previously thought.”


    I guess even the dumb people (republican'ts for those who are intellectually challenged)ain't buying what he sells as much, so even he is losing money now a days.

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  13. I like the phrasing of this bill as the "down payment". That's exactly what it is. Bush's bills were just giveaways. He handed the money over then went back to pulling weeds.

    The republicans say it doesn't do enough.

    Fine. Pass it, then introduce a new bill targeting the areas they want to target.

    Its not like Congress can't pass smaller bills designed to pick up the slack where this bill loses it. It's like President Obama said, we can't let the desire for a perfect bill keep us from doing anything. We have to get moving and get things done.

    If we need more things then introduce more bills.

    What there won't be a Congress next month?

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  14. I predict a series of bills, actions, moves by the Fed, etc, over the next year until things stabilize.

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  15. Hey they found a job for boy blunder since he ain't president anymore, and even one he might be qualified to do;

    Dallas hardware store offers Bush door greeter position.

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  16. The only draw back is if the store has a drug testing policy, he'd have to go AWOL then.

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  17. Ok all, I'm still in a bit of shock so please bear with me.

    A repeatedly drunk driver took one of my coworkers away from us today. And I dont get it. For as long as I can remember I have been seeing public service announcements and newspaper articles and billboards and everything saying that driving while drunk will kill ... period. DO people not get it? DO they think everybody's been kidding? Do they honestly think it's all been a big joke?

    Please -- Lydia, Mike, Clif, Bart, Frank, Will, Volt, Sara, Jackie, anybody else ... if you're going to drink DON'T DRIVE!!!! The life you end may not be your own.

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  18. MCH,

    My condolences to you on the loss of your co-worker. FWIW, I haven't had a drink since 1988 when I was first diagnosed with diabetes.
    May the Creator bless and comfort you.

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  19. Why does MCH think we're a bunch of drunks?

    I don't drink. I don't think Clif does either. And Mike I think only imbibes beer.

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  20. And Lydia doesn't drink either and hasn't for decades.

    She is always talking about it.

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  21. You're kidding me, right, Bart?

    Whatever.

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  22. Frank, I appreciate your sentiments. You get what I was saying.

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  23. Thanks, Bart, you're all heart.

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  24. Blogger BARTLEBEE said...

    The problem that is rapidly approaching however, is that for lending to stimulate the economy we need people to borrow. Right now there are still plenty of Americans working. A lot have lost jobs but most have not. If lending doesn't return soon, those people will lose their jobs eventually, and then lending will become moot because no one will have a job to pay the loans back.

    Then all we'll have left is the dole."



    EXACTLY we NEED to get this stimulus passes ASAP...........because the more jobs are lost the less effective the stimulus will be........every day counts here repugs are willing to let this country sink into a Depression for political gain.

    Look Lydia's absolutely right the stimulus doesnt contain that much pork and i'm hoping it gets passed ASAP........that said I do think it could be better...........First I think it needs to be bigger and I think it should be much more focused dont get me wrong I think unemployment benefits, healthcare, aid to the states, education funding, road construction, tax cuts for the working class etc......are all worthty causes and should most definately be components of the stimulus but I think the majority should go towards renewable energy and public transportation to end our dependency on foreign oil.

    I think we need a grandiose visionary plan that will pay dividends for decades, Obama needs to create a legacy akin to FDR giving America unemployment insurance, Social Security etc.. or Eisenhower building the public highway system.

    Think how much better Americans lives would be if instead of all that money for imported oil leaving our country it could be spent domestically to stimulate our economy and raise the quality of our lives........think if Americans didnt need to spend large portions of their income to fuel their cars, heat, cool and light their homes or on health care.

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  25. Lydia, your absolutely right the repugs are distorting the message and trying to play obstructionist.........they are willing to sacrifice American citizens jobs and let our country sink into another Great Depression just to be able to point the finger and babble "see Socialism doesnt work"


    Obama needs to take control of the message and he needs to make it clear to the American people thast these IDIOTS havent learned over the last 8 years and are still clinging to lies, propaganda, empty rhetoric and failed discredited talking points and disaterous policies that dont work............they need to lose more congressional seats till they are excised from the fabric of America like the cancerous tumor they are.

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  26. My condolences MCH.........i've had friends and coworkers who have died or been crippled by drunk driving............for the record I never drive when i would be a danger to others.

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  27. Blogger BARTLEBEE said...

    I predict a series of bills, actions, moves by the Fed, etc, over the next year until things stabilize."


    I dont know Bart the idiot repugs are going to fight tooth and nail on every bill to help the working class..........I think it might be easiest to get one big bill passed rather than hope to keep passing smaller ones.


    I realize we need to get this passed ASAP to stop an economic collapse........but unless the repugs lose more seats passing future stimulus particularly the things we REALLY need like infrastructure, aid to states, unemployment or basically ANYTHING thats NOT a tax cut to the wealthy or big business the repugs will fight tooth and nail just as they did 70 years ago.

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  28. Blogger Frank Frey said...

    Mike,

    Yeah, it got cold down here. It was 31 when I got up this. I realize that is nothing compared to what Clif and his neighbors went through.

    From what I've seen so far, I'm afraid that President Obama is getting behind the power curve in terms of getting his stimulus message out. It's being buried in pork by the Democrats. It shows how out of touch Washington is with Mainstreet America. One of the most important pieces of legislation in modern times got christmas treed. Normally, the average citizen notice but these are not normal times. The average citizen is watching and they do care.
    Let me say in closing, we need this stimulus package but we don't need all of the damn pork that goes with it."


    Frank I agree completely that Obama is behind the curve in getting the right message out and the repugs have lied and spun this..............that said there really isnt that much pork in this bill thats a repug talking point and spin..........I do think the package should have been more targeted and focused and larger...........But I agree we dont have time to dicker and doodle this needs to be passed ASAP......the quicker it gets passed the better the chance it has of working.

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  29. Mike,

    On Lydia's advice, I thoroughly read through the economic stimulus package and I support it. It is by no means perfect but it is the best that can be done at this time.
    Here's a little quiz for you what do Milton Friedman (father of neoliberalist economic policy) and Leo Strauss (father of neoconservatism) have in common?

    Answer: They were colleagues at the University of Chicago.
    Milton Friedman 1946-76
    Leo Strauss 1949 -1969

    How interesting.

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  30. MCH said...

    You're kidding me, right, Bart?

    Whatever.


    No, I'm not kidding.

    Lydia doesn't drink. Clif doesn't drink. I don't drink. And I think Mike only drinks beer.

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  31. Just pointing that out since you admonished us by name to not drink and drive.

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  32. It wasnt an admonishment, bart, it was a genuine show of concern.

    Take it how you will, however.

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  33. I'd rather not take it at all, since I don't drink.

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  34. The University of Chicago is repug central i'm surprised Obama could stomach working with all those Supply Side Idiots!


    Supply Side economics and Trickle Down/Voodoo economics are such snake oil BS......that anyone advocated them should be riddiculed as a fool or the village IDIOT!

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  35. Mike,

    While I agree with you about supply side economics, I'd like to point out that Milton Freidman won the Nobel Prize for that crap. Man, him and his buddies hornswoggled a lot of people.

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  36. "The University of Chicago is repug central i'm surprised Obama could stomach working with all those Supply Side Idiots!"

    Well to be fair he DID balance it out by working with domestic terrorists and neo socialists...

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  37. "I'd like to point out that Milton Freidman won the Nobel Prize for that crap."

    Not a big deal really. Look at Algore, Arafat and Carter.

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  38. Mike said...

    I dont know Bart the idiot repugs are going to fight tooth and nail on every bill to help the working class..........I think it might be easiest to get one big bill passed rather than hope to keep passing smaller ones.


    No I'm not saying this one doesn't need to be big, I think it does if for only for a show of support so Wall Street reacts accordingly and wealth starts moving forward.

    I'm just saying that its not the end of bills being passed. That's what congress does. They pass bills. If they're not passing bills then they're not doing their jobs. There will be more spending and stimulus bills down the road. We just had one a few months ago. There can be additional areas not covered in this package added on in smaller bills and appropriations. Not all congressional and federal spending requires a major bill. Depending on the amount much spending goes on under the auspices of existing bills.

    I'm just saying we don't need to act like this bill needs to be perfect.

    This won't be the last spending Bill that comes out of Congress this year.

    Lets just get this one done and get the economy moving forward.

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  39. This new found concern for accountability in the President's stimulus spending on the part of the republicans is remarkable.

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  40. Until this gets passed, we're losing 500 million jobs each month.

    That would be 6 billion jobs lost by the end of the year...

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  41. Funny they didn't seem to have these concerns and objections when Bush was asking for money.

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  42. Now that Obama's President, suddenly they're all suddenly misers.

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  43. "Funny they didn't seem to have these concerns and objections when Bush was asking for money."

    How short is your memory Bart?

    It seems like (and it was practically) yesterday when you were crying over Republicans stonewalling Bush's bailout.

    It too like this bill had about ZERO conservative support, both in congress AND the public in general.

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  44. Longer than yours apparently.

    Not only did they vote for it, they let him have it with absolutely zero oversight.

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  45. Now that Obama's president, suddenly they've all got out their monocles and pocket calculator.

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  46. But when Bush was President, they let him spend money like a crackwhore with a credit card.

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  47. First they let him take the budget surplus Clinton handed him, and squander that.

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  48. Then they let him squander the projected surplus.

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  49. Then they let him start spending between 2 and 12 billion a week in Iraq.

    :|

    That sure hasn't hurt our budget deficit.

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  50. But now, ohhh, now they're suddenly all Percy P. Pennypincher.

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  51. 8 years of handing Bush whatever he wanted until the countries economy was in ruins, and now suddenly they want to play Suzy Orman.

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  52. And what happened to all that "support the President" stuff?

    This President just got elected and the republicans have done nothing but kick him in the knees at every turn.

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  53. We listened for the last 6 years how it was unAmerican to not support the President.

    What happened to all that stuff?

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  54. The trolls used to tell us it was treason to not support the president.

    So what happened to all that talk?

    :|

    Where'd it go?

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  55. Look at the litle repuggie dunce babbling his ignorance and failed discredited ideologies..........keep on clinging to your IDIOCY little troll so you fools lose even more seats in Congress...........its clear to EVERYONE with a functioning brain that Reagan was wrong and that tax cuts dont work.

    explain to me what the hell a tax cut does for someone who lost their job or house or a business thats insolvent?..............absolutely NOTHING.

    Tax cuts are among the least effective form of stimulus.

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  56. Look at the litle repuggie dunce babbling his ignorance and failed discredited ideologies..........keep on clinging to your IDIOCY little troll so you fools lose even more seats in Congress...........its clear to EVERYONE with a functioning brain that Reagan was wrong and that tax cuts dont work.

    explain to me what the hell a tax cut does for someone who lost their job or house or a business thats insolvent?..............absolutely NOTHING.

    Tax cuts are among the least effective form of stimulus.

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  57. BARTLEBEE said...

    "Longer than yours apparently.

    Not only did they vote for it, they let him have it with absolutely zero oversight."

    8:49 PM



    From the Sept. 28th Thread:

    BARTLEBEE said...

    "The dow crashed more than it did on 911. BILLIONS in wealth were lost in one day. Banks have seized up lending today and the European markets convulsed with the news as the whole world starts to crash.

    All they had to do was put through the bill.

    And the house republicans shot it down, breaking the countries bank and mine.

    FU@$#@#$KING IDIOTS!"

    2:20 PM



    BARTLEBEE said...

    "The MAJORITY of the democrats voted for the bill.

    The MAJORITY of the republicans voted AGAINST the bill.

    Do the math dimwits."

    5:19 PM

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  58. Obama is crusading to help Americans keep their jobs and keep our country from collapsing into an economic Depression and Rush Limbaugh says he wants Obama to fail............that means Rush "WANTS" Americans to lose their jobs and America to collase into economic Depression..........theres no other way to interpret that.

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  59. IIRC, one of our greatest Republican presidents, Theodore Roosevelt once called demands for not criticizing the President "morally treasonable to the Public".

    Oh wait...I forgot...Laura Ingraham has declared that Teddy Roosevelt is irrelevant.

    Whatever was I thinking?

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  60. Keep doing what your doing little troll so you IDIOTS become even MORE IRRELEVANT and lose even more power.

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  61. "Tax cuts are among the least effective form of stimulus."

    Do you have NO sense of reality at all?

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  62. The worst part is Mike Obama gave them the tax cuts and they STILL want to obstruct his efforts!

    I mean come on. He played ball. He bent over backwards for them. Did Bush ever do that? When did Bush go have lunch with the Democrats on his own to discuss stuff? When did Bush play handball with the dems?

    The republicans are in the minority but they act like they're in the majority.

    I say screw em.

    If they want to play hardball fine. Take off the gloves.

    Let the old rich white bastards filibuster. Have Harry Reid call a vote on the nuclear option and end the filibuster and they can live under democrat rule for a while if they want.

    Obama's done everything but shine their shoes for them and they still don't want to play ball.

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  63. Just as always, bunch of rich old white men don't want to give the black man a nickel.

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  64. "...theres no other way to interpret that."

    Other than what he actually said...

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  65. Voltron said...

    "Tax cuts are among the least effective form of stimulus."

    Do you have NO sense of reality at all?



    Yea he does and he like most Americans who saw the numbers knows that Tax cuts are less effective than spending in stimulating economic GROWTH.

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  66. I agree Frank.

    I've always been told that dissent is patriotic...

    How odd that somehow that doesn't apply to "the One".

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  67. Voltron said...

    "...theres no other way to interpret that."

    Other than what he actually said...




    Why does he do that Mike?

    Why does Voltron in the middle of a debate, try to change the topic to a debate that ended days ago?

    With participants who aren't even here (or are they?).

    Once more I ask, why would Volt want to change the topic of the debate to a debate that ended days ago?

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  68. "Yea he does and he like most Americans who saw the numbers knows that Tax cuts are less effective than spending in stimulating economic GROWTH."

    IF by "economic growth" you mean "government growth".

    Because we all know that GOVERNMENT is what stimulates the economy, not businesses or corporations who employ people...

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  69. Blogger Voltron said...

    "Tax cuts are among the least effective form of stimulus."

    Do you have NO sense of reality at all?"


    No little troll its YOU IDIOTS that have no sense of reality........you've been dead wrong on essentially EVERYTHING but you still cling to the same lies propasganda and discredited mumbo jumbo rhetoric..........Americas sick and tired of your BS yet your to damb stupid to change............You iDIOTS are TOO stupid to learn from your own mistakes.........so become even MORE IRRELEVANT!

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  70. Better question Barty, is why did MIKE try to change it?

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  71. Voltron said...


    How odd that somehow that doesn't apply to "the One".



    Dissent in the face of obvious injustice or tyranny is patriotic.

    But kicking a new first term president in the knees right out of the starting gate is not.

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  72. Its long past the time to play hardball with these morons!

    They lost...........Elections matter and america sick and tired of BS supply side economics......BS tax cuts for the wealthy and emdless war, torture, spying, corporate cronnyism etc.....

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  73. Oh I'm sorry Voltron, please, go ahead and tell us how the republicans did NOT vote for the Bush stimulus bill that they voted for last quarter.

    Tell us your position, in how they didn't give Bush the money.

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  74. You mean the growth FDR created that pulled us out of the Great Depression caused by Conservative economic mismangement and corporate greed that left us with a vibrant Middle class and Social Security, health insurance, unemployment insurance, pensions, disability insurance, OSHA, etc......

    ReplyDelete
  75. President Obama hasn't even had time to break in Air Force One yet and already the republican smear and fear campaign is well underway.

    Well one things for sure.

    You guys are sealing your fate as the most ugly, unamerican evildoers to ever darken a political hall.

    America is sinking and the republicans are trying to destroy the new President. This will be their legacy.

    ReplyDelete
  76. "Tell us your position, in how they didn't give Bush the money."

    How about I remind you of YOUR position on Sept. 28?

    BARTLEBEE said...

    "The MAJORITY of the democrats voted for the bill.

    The MAJORITY of the republicans voted AGAINST the bill.

    Do the math dimwits."

    5:19 PM

    ReplyDelete
  77. Tax cuts are BS if you lose your job what the hell is a BS tax cut going to do to get you a job...........If your business is insolvent or cant get access to capital is a BS tax cut going to make you want to hire people and create jobs?

    NO!

    There are MUCH better ways to create jobs, spur spending and stimulate the economy..............tax cuts for the wealthy are what got us in this predicament.

    ReplyDelete
  78. "You guys are sealing your fate as the most ugly, unamerican evildoers to ever darken a political hall."

    Yes Bart, we were evil for not lynching our last president for imagined deeds, and evil now for not sealing our lips to the first anus.

    ReplyDelete
  79. When the terrorists struck the democrats rallied around President Bush, and gave him their unbridled support.

    He enjoyed an unprecedented 90 percent approval rating overnight, with the entire country rallying behind him. Liberals, progressives, democrats, independents, all gave him their support.

    Why?

    Because the country was in trouble.

    Today the country is in trouble, and the republicans are out in full force, rallied against him to cut him off at every turn. Speaking out against him. Criticizing everything he does. And telling him yes to his face, then no when they cast their votes.

    The republicans are showing Americans and the world, that they neither care nor will let worry about their country interfere with their determination to hurt the new President.

    ReplyDelete
  80. "There are MUCH better ways to create jobs..."

    Have you ever been hired by a poor man Mike?

    ReplyDelete
  81. And that Bill was BS Voltron I opposed that Bill I said there NEEDED to be oversite, we needed to insure the money was ONLY for lending and we ALSO needed to help homeowners and regular Americans or it wouldnt work and would be a mistake................This Stimulus while not perfect is CRUCIAL.......the economy is falling off a clif and collapsing and if we dont stop this vicious circle before it gains mommentum we are doomed to ANOTHER Great Depression............Course I would expect a dumb as dirt troll who's been dead wrong on essentially EVERYTHING thats come out of his lying mouth to understand complex things like economics........so just keep your mouth shut voltron.......you'll LOOK smarter that way!

    ReplyDelete
  82. Say what you want Voltron, the world sees you.

    President Obama hasn't even warmed his seat in the Oval Office and your people are out in force trying to do damage to him and his party, and the country, and the people, be damned.

    ReplyDelete
  83. "He enjoyed an unprecedented 90 percent approval rating overnight, with the entire country rallying behind him. Liberals, progressives, democrats, independents, all gave him their support."

    Yeah, and as I recall "OVERNIGHT" was just about how long that lasted too...

    ReplyDelete
  84. More republican mumbo jumbo and discredited talking points!

    ReplyDelete
  85. And Mike I opposed that bill just as much as I oppose this one.

    ReplyDelete
  86. The people will remember this, and all the neocon trickery and smoke and mirrors won't let people forget how you treated President Obama during this his first days in office.

    We gave Bush a chance, and people are going to remember that you did not give President Obama that same opportunity.

    You'd rather hurt the country than help your opponent.

    Meanwhile he's reaching across the aisle and bending over backwards to work with and welcome republicans.

    People see this, and your party is sealing its fate.

    ReplyDelete
  87. What's that Mike?

    You HAVE been hired by poor people?
    At what kind of salary?

    ReplyDelete
  88. Voltron said...



    Yeah, and as I recall "OVERNIGHT" was just about how long that lasted too...



    It lasted until he announced instead of going after the terrorists that attacked us on 911, he had decided to go into Iraq, butcher 100,000 people or so, and create a few million new terrorists.

    ReplyDelete
  89. See what babbling parrots like Voltron are too dense to realize is we have a small window of time to try to jumpstart the economy with stimulus, the more jobs that are lost the less effective any stimulous will be..........we just lost another 670,000 jobs I believe if we dont act soon it will be too late.........but as usual with repugs partisan politics trumps country and the public good EVERY TIME!

    ReplyDelete
  90. We supported him until he screwed everything up a year and a half later.

    President Obama hasn't even been in office for a month and already you guys are crucifying him.

    You're working against him and he hasn't even done anything yet.

    You don't care about America.

    You care about control.

    ReplyDelete
  91. "We gave Bush a chance, and people are going to remember that you did not give President Obama that same opportunity."

    You personally I can't vouch for. This blog didn't exist in 2000. But the left most certainly did not.

    Remember "selected not elected"?

    "Meanwhile he's reaching across the aisle and bending over backwards to work with and welcome republicans."

    Like "I'll trump you on that. I won."

    You mean like that?

    ReplyDelete
  92. And thats why you lost control.

    ReplyDelete
  93. I think you've confused "reach across" with "reach around"...

    ReplyDelete
  94. "See what babbling parrots like Voltron are too dense to realize is we have a small window of time to try to jumpstart the economy with stimulus..."

    Most economic downturns or market corrections last at most 15 months or so. UNLESS you throw HUGE amounts of money at them. Then they last for years and years...

    ReplyDelete
  95. You just dont get it Voltron..........you pompous ignorant fools are goosestepping down the same ruinous path into the void and irrelevance you did in the 1930's.................keep it up..........your your own worst enemies.

    I mean look at that imbecile Cheney spewing his torture and terrorist crap like a broken record just like YOU and the ignorant fools in Congress are doing with you stupid little tax cuts for the wealthy are the answer to EVEREYTHING..........after America told you in the last TWO elections they arent buying that tired old crap anymore.

    You fools are like a one trick pony, a stopped clock or a babbling parrot!

    ReplyDelete
  96. Well...as Drowning Pool sings...
    "Let the bodies hit the floor,
    let the bodies hit the floor..."
    I's 30 degrees here in Tampa Bay and probably gonna drop a few degrees more.
    Time for a cuppa Double Spiced Chai Tea and then bed. See y'all tomorrow.

    ReplyDelete
  97. Voltron said...



    Like "I'll trump you on that. I won."

    You mean like that?




    It was one line. One news soundbite.

    He said that during a bipartisan meeting in an attempt to appease the clowns you're in here defending.

    And he said that in the face of republicans acting like they hold the floor.

    If it were me, I'd told you all to go suck an egg and I'd pull the nuclear option and you could all sit there and play checkers all day for all I care.

    President Obama is trying to work with you clowns, but ultimately its the country that matters.

    You'd better find a way to get your snooty arrogant defeated noses out of the air and back to earth so we can get on moving this country forward or get used to being nothing but a laughing stock again, and an irrelevant one at that.

    He's not going to put up with your crap for ever.

    ReplyDelete
  98. Night Frank.

    Don't let the global warming bite...

    ReplyDelete
  99. Voltron said...



    Most economic downturns or market corrections last at most 15 months or so. UNLESS you throw HUGE amounts of money at them. Then they last for years and years...



    You consistently show your colors with your consistent lies.

    Failing banks and millions losing jobs is not a "market correction".

    ReplyDelete
  100. "He's not going to put up with your crap for ever."

    You think he'll jail the duly elected leaders in congress if they oppose him?

    ReplyDelete
  101. "Failing banks and millions losing jobs is not a "market correction".

    Yeah, last I heard was 500 million Americans losing their jobs each month.

    If that goes on for a whole year 6 billions Americans will be out of work.

    ReplyDelete
  102. Well sparky, the duly elected "Leaders" in congress are democrats.

    So I imagine he'll tell the fat greasy republican MINORITY leader, mr Boner, to go bone himself.

    They pull the nuclear option on you now, and it will be a long time before republicans are anything more than a Trivial Pursuit historical question.

    ReplyDelete
  103. ""He's not going to put up with your crap for ever."

    Hmmm...

    I DO live in a blue state.

    I really wouldn't like being a political prisoner....

    ReplyDelete
  104. Voltron said...

    "Failing banks and millions losing jobs is not a "market correction".

    Yeah, last I heard was 500 million Americans losing their jobs each month.


    Well you keep quoting that number that was obviously a typo someone made if that makes you feel better about being a liar and a fool.

    ReplyDelete
  105. Voltron said...


    Hmmm...

    I DO live in a blue state.



    No.

    You live in a state of denial.

    ReplyDelete
  106. "They pull the nuclear option on you now, and it will be a long time before republicans are anything more than a Trivial Pursuit historical question."

    If they do that, they're dumber than even I think they are.

    No Bart, the porkulus bill isn't going to do hardly anything to stimulate the economy and will only make it MUCH worse. The Dems aren't going to stick their heads in the noose alone.

    ReplyDelete
  107. Actually Barty, it was Bela Pelosi and she said it at least twice...

    ReplyDelete
  108. Voltron babbled "Most economic downturns or market corrections last at most 15 months or so. UNLESS you throw HUGE amounts of money at them. Then they last for years and years..."


    Sorry liar but the ONLY economic downturn to last that long in the past 45 years was 1973-1974.............Further YOU just said a few days ago i believe that most last 6-9 months...........now its 15 months?

    Lastly This is not MOST corrections.......this isnt even most recessions a correction is a brief contraction of GDP lasting one quarter, a recession is a GDP contraction lasting 2 or more quarters of less than 10% annually almost ALL of which post WW2 have lasted less than 6-9 months.......a Depression on the other hand is a contraction of GDP lasting more than 3 years and totalling at least 30% or MORE than 10% annually for more than 3 years.

    So we are getting close to a Depression since NO recession SINCE the Great Depression has lasted longer than 16 months and we are ALLREADY at 14 months.

    ReplyDelete
  109. And that's a state you'd better get used to if you're going to continue to act like you guys won the election.

    The honeymoon won't last forever, and President Obama is going to get tired of having his outreached hand slapped back at him.

    You keep it up, and the republicans won't be anything more than a photo op with regards to their role in congress for a long time to come.

    The people are tired of the republicans and their crap. The last thing you guys want now is to be in the press shown stonewalling as Americans are losing their jobs and their homes and businesses and banks are failing left and right.

    Republican lies like a global economic crisis is a "market correction" are one reason people despise you.

    Either get your acts together, or get ready to get benched.

    ReplyDelete
  110. You need to stay away from anything sharper than a steeringwheel little trucker........what you THINK you know about economics couldnt fill a thimble........stick to things you know like pumping and spewing gas and licking your masters boots.

    ReplyDelete
  111. In fact, keep pushing and you might find he will "rewrite the bill".

    Rewrite it sans every single republican nice to have in it.

    He gave the republicans the tax cuts, suppose he takes them away? Suppose he leaves them but only for individuals and small business? You keep running your mouth and talking big all you want. I'm just advising you.

    If you want to play ball, then I'd suit up and get on the field. Otherwise you guys might find yourselves sidelined, with a whole new bill without any of the things the republicans are asking for, and maybe even the ones he's already given them, removed.

    ReplyDelete
  112. Right back atcha Mikey.

    ReplyDelete
  113. You people have no idea how bad things REALLY are I have many friends in the auto industry that have been on a 1 week a month furlow without pay for 3 months now and will likely lose their jobs the unemployment rate is a joke if we computed it the way we used to during the last severe recession in 1982 counting the under employed and those purged from the roles and who have given up we would add 6% to the current totals giving us a national rate of 13.5%........if we add that same 6% to Califorinias rate of around 115 we get around 17% which is fast approching Great Depression levels and levls that cause Social unrest!

    ReplyDelete
  114. Are you EVER right about ANUTHING Voltron.......do you even KNOW WHAT A FACT IS?

    ReplyDelete
  115. "If you want to play ball, then I'd suit up and get on the field. Otherwise you guys might find yourselves sidelined, with a whole new bill without any of the things the republicans are asking for, and maybe even the ones he's already given them, removed."

    Like I said Bart,

    Go ahead and play that one.
    You guys just go ahead and stick your heads in that noose all alone OK?

    When the people show up in Washington with torches and pitchforks at least they'll know the Republicans had nothing to do with it.

    ReplyDelete
  116. The whole worlds watching us right now, to see if America can pull together and make their country work.

    And right now all they see is the republicans, trying to throw every single wrench into the works, that they can find.

    ReplyDelete
  117. "Are you EVER right about ANUTHING Voltron.......do you even KNOW WHAT A FACT IS?"

    Say's the illiterate. Mikey, my definition is much closer to reality than yours is.

    ReplyDelete
  118. Voltron said...



    Like I said Bart,

    Go ahead and play that one.
    You guys just go ahead and stick your heads in that noose all alone OK?

    When the people show up in Washington with torches and pitchforks at least they'll know the Republicans had nothing to do with it.



    Nooses?

    Pitchforks and torches?

    Hmmm, sounds dangerous.

    Are you threatening some sort of revolution?

    ReplyDelete
  119. Are you advocating treason now little troll?

    ReplyDelete
  120. And when the economy comes back, they'll know the republicans had "nothing to do with it" too.

    ReplyDelete
  121. "And right now all they see is the republicans, trying to throw every single wrench into the works, that they can find."

    Really? You think that's what they see?

    According to the last gallup poll more people are AGAINST this bill than are for it. AND it's losing support DAILY.

    ReplyDelete
  122. There is no excuse for not giving the incoming president your support.

    At least in his first months in office.

    Particularly during a time of war and economic emergency.

    No excuse whatsover.

    ReplyDelete
  123. Sure duncetron spin more lies.........

    ReplyDelete
  124. What's the gallup poll say about people being fed up with the republicans and their bullshit?

    Huh?

    ReplyDelete
  125. What's the Gallup poll say about what the people think about George W Bush?

    ReplyDelete
  126. Ever see the movie The Deadpool Voltron........lets make a little wager on how many repugs will lose Congressional seats in 2010..........we can even award double points if to who picks the right ones who fall?

    ReplyDelete
  127. Whats the gallup say about what the people think about Dick Cheney?

    The republican party?

    ReplyDelete
  128. What happened to it being unpatriotic to not support your president Voltron?

    Huh?

    What happened to that?

    ReplyDelete
  129. I support the president Barty.

    I just don't support his policies.

    ReplyDelete
  130. Hey Bart Didnt Obama win by the largest majority in DECADES and didnt the repugs get their asses handed to them for the last 2 elections.........you think the "THROW THE BUMS OUT" sentiment will continie and this decade will be a clean sweep for the Dems?

    ReplyDelete
  131. Give him a chance.

    Stop trying to be cute, smug, or right.

    Just give him a chance. If he messes up then we'll be in here with you criticizing his mistakes and voting him out in 2012.

    But he just got here.

    He hasn't even had a chance to do anything yet. Give him a chance.

    ReplyDelete
  132. Bart,

    I was against spending huge amounts of our money when it was Bush doing it, and I will continue to be against it when Obama's doing it.

    ReplyDelete
  133. Voltron by the end of this decade you'll probably want to pull out that pea shooter of yours and end it all..........course i'll probably try to talk you down off the water tower and bring you over to the light from the darkside.......cause in spite of your ignorance i'm somewhat fond of you............you know how every village has an idiot well your kind of my/our little idiot.

    ReplyDelete
  134. "...cause in spite of your ignorance i'm somewhat fond of you..."

    Spoken like a teenager to their elders...

    ReplyDelete
  135. We gave Bush a chance. You can argue about how long that honeymoon lasted, but you can't deny we gave him a chance.

    And it wasn't until he turned into a cross between Napoleon Bonaparte and Napoleon Dynamite that people turned on him.

    You guys owe him and the country a modicum of support, at least coming out of the gate.

    ReplyDelete
  136. Blogger Voltron said...

    Bart,

    I was against spending huge amounts of our money when it was Bush doing it, and I will continue to be against it when Obama's doing it."


    Well you werent against spending TRILLIONS on the war or on spying on American citizens or secret prisons to torture............but for the record I was against the big spending as well..........this is different if this small window to stimulate the economy closes we face another 5-10 years of Depression just like the 1930's.......this is crucial!

    ReplyDelete
  137. Voltron said...

    Bart,

    I was against spending huge amounts of our money when it was Bush doing it, and I will continue to be against it when Obama's doing it.


    Really?

    :|

    That's funny because you weren't against spending huge amounts of our money when it came to the war in Iraq.

    ReplyDelete
  138. Blogger Voltron said...

    "...cause in spite of your ignorance i'm somewhat fond of you..."

    Spoken like a teenager to their elders..."



    LOL.............allright i'll give you this one!

    ReplyDelete
  139. We did bullshit.

    You want I should post a few news articles or blog posts from the days before and after the 2000 election?

    ReplyDelete
  140. "That's funny because you weren't against spending huge amounts of our money when it came to the war in Iraq."

    I was against the WAY it was done.

    That should've been paid for by Iraqi oil.

    ReplyDelete
  141. Voltron explain how 1% of a bill makes all of it a bad bill when most of it is construction or reconstruction of projects mostly already in the works IE planning or actual bidding?

    Construction like rebuilding roads dams and levees which do need rebuilding,

    Or agriculture projects that are needed according to the agriculture department most projects started under the Bush administration.

    You attacked Obama as a candidate and NEVER gave him a chance,

    right after the election you ad crusty the clown were saying how he was bringing socialism.

    so quit lying


    You have goosesteeped to the reich wing neo-con tune since you slithered in here as Eric before you got caught plagiarizing then changed your handle and lied about that for well over a year.

    ReplyDelete
  142. "...this is different if this small window to stimulate the economy closes we face another 5-10 years of Depression just like the 1930's.......this is crucial!"

    Mike, it was the SPENDING that caused the depression to last 7+ years.

    ReplyDelete
  143. Not to mention all the regulations.

    ReplyDelete
  144. Voltron said...

    We did bullshit.

    You want I should post a few news articles or blog posts from the days before and after the 2000 election?


    I didn't say after the 2000 elections did I junior?

    I said after 911.

    If you want to debate me little boy you'd better quit the lying, because I'm not going to deal with it.

    You know what I just wrote and I said after 911, not the 2000 elections. The 2000 elections were a debacle, and the country was neither in the middle of a global economic meltdown nor was it at WAR.

    The country is at war and is in a crisis, and you owe the incoming president your support.

    You talk big about being an American but when the chips are down and a new president is in all you want to do is play politics.

    ReplyDelete
  145. Don't you and your ilk dare to ever presume to lecture me, or anyone ever again on patriotism.

    ReplyDelete
  146. When people said we should have FINISHED Afghanistan BEFORE attacking Iraq illegally you called us traitors,

    but we have been proved right,

    Iraq is a dismal failure according to the claims bush ET Al made when we went in and Afghanistan is a fiasco.

    We have wasted over 1 trillion dollars and have NOTHING to show for it except for getting told to go home by al Maliki.

    ReplyDelete
  147. it was the SPENDING that caused the depression to last 7+ years.

    LIAR

    ReplyDelete
  148. Blogger Voltron said...

    We did bullshit.

    You want I should post a few news articles or blog posts from the days before and after the 2000 election?"


    More lies and BS strawman arguments........who are you refering to rabid far left bloggers you saved to your "database"...........this blog didnt even exist back then and I supported Bush completely till 2002 when the Nazi propaganda and lies to sell the Iraq war started then he lost me and I saw right through Bush and the repug party goosestepping along with that treasonous incompetent bastard!

    ReplyDelete
  149. All you do is lie and post strawman talking points.

    ReplyDelete
  150. The spending build the federal road system, electric grid and phone system where the private industry claimed they could not make money doing it, both which have worked for decades.

    ReplyDelete
  151. Voltron said...


    I was against the WAY it was done.

    That should've been paid for by Iraqi oil.



    That you wanted to plunder and loot the very population you were illegally invading does your moral character no tribute.

    Like I said, don't you ever presume to lecture me again.

    ReplyDelete
  152. They spending stopped the unemployment from rising HIGHER then the 25% it was at.

    ReplyDelete
  153. Blogger Voltron said...

    "...this is different if this small window to stimulate the economy closes we face another 5-10 years of Depression just like the 1930's.......this is crucial!"

    Mike, it was the SPENDING that caused the depression to last 7+ years."


    Sorry you lying troll but if that were true why did unemployment go from 25% in 1932 to around 10% in 1937 then when FDR listen to the repugs and cut back the speding and stimulus it went back up to close to 20% again..............you'll haqveto do better than spewing dishonest repug talking points little troll.

    ReplyDelete
  154. I was against the WAY it was done.

    That should've been paid for by Iraqi oil.


    So according to the policy of Voltron we should invade countries and steal THEIR natural resources to pay for it, HOW close to the ideology of the German attacks of WW2 of ya because that is EXACTLY what the Nazis did, both in the natural resources they went after and the human resourced they illegally rendered back to Germany to work to death in their war factories......

    ReplyDelete
  155. Its Supply Side economics and Trickle down Reagan BS that dont work..........FDR's New Deal worked very well.............but I guess all intellectually bankrupt obstructionists like you deadenders have left is to DENY it worked.

    ReplyDelete
  156. Between 2 and 12 BILLION dollars a week, and you were in here arguing for the war, and how we had to stick it out, on and on and on.

    FOR YEARS.

    And now you have the arrogance to sit here and try and claim you were against spending huge sums of our money?

    All you do is lie.

    ReplyDelete
  157. Dont forget the secret prisons and concentation camps to torture and deprogram Clif!

    He's alike in many ways.

    ReplyDelete
  158. EXACTLY all he does is lie about EVERYTHING!

    ReplyDelete
  159. Mike he gets MAD when we tell him how close he resembles the Nazis,

    then the foole says things like invade a country then steal their natural resources to pay for our illegal invasion.

    too bad widdle will is throwing a hissy fit and claiming he refuses to post here, he could divert us all from that blunder of voltrons.

    ReplyDelete
  160. "So according to the policy of Voltron we should invade countries and steal THEIR natural resources..."

    Well Cliffy, wasn't that what you said we were doing anyway?

    ReplyDelete
  161. I guess they haven't realized the last two elections were more historic then the MSM is willing to admit.

    ReplyDelete
  162. Well Cliffy, wasn't that what you said we were doing anyway?

    yes idiot but that doesn't make it morally correct or legal, but that is WHAT you claim you want.

    ReplyDelete
  163. You want to violate legal statues and moral grounds to steal resources for the continuation of the American Empire,

    I want us to change to a more survival way of energy and foreign policy instead of wasting more on defense then the rest of the entire planet combined.

    ReplyDelete
  164. clif said...


    too bad widdle will is throwing a hissy fit and claiming he refuses to post here, he could divert us all from that blunder of voltrons.



    He's playing the victim card hoping to get Lydia upset. Of course I just called attention to his words, and never used profanity nor personal attacks, so he's just wasting his time.

    Debating the words he chooses to post in here is not against the rules.

    ReplyDelete
  165. The trillions wasted every decade keeping our empire intact could be better used to change they way we try to control the planet for the benefit of a couple thousand very wealthy people.

    the benefit for the rest of the population would be enormous and you just might be able to cut taxes to boot.

    ReplyDelete
  166. Cheney's out there like Dr Evil Clif, trying to sell people on the idea that if we don't keep his torture chambers open then we'll be attacked again.

    It sounded like a threat to me.

    ReplyDelete
  167. Bart he is too embarrassed to admit one of his right wing buddies has been punking him for months.

    ReplyDelete
  168. Cheney is irrelevant except to the volkstrum like volty, and they are quickly becoming as irrelevant.

    ReplyDelete
  169. Cheney is like David Duke, an angry old man who has done far too much damage to both the country and the party he claimed to represent.

    ReplyDelete
  170. Later guys, I have to be up at 5AM so i'm signing off!

    ReplyDelete
  171. Maybe Clif, but I don't trust him.

    It sounded to me like he was threatening America, and Obama, to follow the Bush policies or else.

    ReplyDelete
  172. Cheney can't pull too much when he has NO official power, cause the DOJ won't protect him anymore.

    and very few people would be willing to face treason charges to help that traitor to the constitution.

    ReplyDelete
  173. It really sounded threatening.

    Like when the one of the Soprano's says..."we recommend you pay the protection money,...we'd hate to see something unpleasant happen to your family....".

    ReplyDelete
  174. Bush I think realized how despised he was before he left, cheney has to figger it out yet it seems.

    and that is by republicans.

    ReplyDelete
  175. He needs to remember Aaron Burr was a VP that didn't fair well after he left office;

    After Burr left the Vice Presidency at the end of his term in 1805, he journeyed into what was then the West, particularly the Ohio River Valley and the lands acquired in the Louisiana Purchase. While historians are uncertain as to Burr's particular activities, he was accused in turns of having committed treason, by reason of a conspiracy to steal Louisiana Purchase lands away from the United States and crown himself a King or Emperor, or of an attempt to declare an illegal war against Spanish possessions in Mexico. He did go so far as to form his own regiment of at least 200 men. Burr was arrested in 1807 and brought to trial on charges of treason, for which he was acquitted. After several years in self-imposed exile in Europe, Burr returned to practicing law in New York City and lived a largely reclusive existence until his death.

    Dick Cheney could be our 21st cen version of Burr

    ReplyDelete
  176. Cheney had power because he was able to foole Bush into his ignorant idiotic policies, now he has none.

    Cheney is irrelevant old man who thinks people still listen to him, but the number is few, and far less are willing to break the law for him now the criminals in the GOP have no control over the DOJ

    ReplyDelete
  177. Cheney sounds to me like he's threatening the country.

    That's what his little radio Reichstag hour sounded like to me today.

    ReplyDelete
  178. I mean, if someone said to you "it would be unfortunate if you chose to not heed my advice....I'd hate to see anything...unpleasant...happen to your family...."....wouldn't you find that the least bit threatening?

    ReplyDelete
  179. Bart remember cheney is spouting words but very few on the right have the balls to act;

    Cheney Rush Bush et all HID from service in vietnam, and franny did;

    and remember voltron's claim he was going to Iraq in 2006, he still ain't made it.


    they have big mouths but for some reason want somebody else to actually do the hard dangerous work they seem to think is so important.

    ReplyDelete
  180. Bart, Cheney ain't got the balls to do much;

    hell he had scooter do his dirty work in the plame affair, then take the fall for him, and lacked the balls to even admit that when Bush could have covered for him.

    ReplyDelete
  181. Because if Cheney tried anything the reich-wing republicans and neo-cons couldn't cover it up for him this time.

    ReplyDelete
  182. “a 9/11-type event where the terrorists are armed with something much more dangerous than an airline ticket and a box cutter – a nuclear weapon or a biological agent of some kind.

    That’s the one that would involve the deaths of perhaps hundreds of thousands of people,

    I think there’s a high probability of such an attempt.

    Whether or not they can pull it off depends whether or not we keep in place policies that have allowed us to defeat all further attempts, since 9/11, to launch mass-casualty attacks against the United States.”



    Dick Cheney
    2-4-2009

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  183. Maybe not Clif, but that sure sounds like a threat to me.

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  184. How does he know it will be that sort of attack? How does he know it won't be box cutters again?

    How does a guy who knew nothing before, and got it all wrong, suddenly know so much?

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  185. Bart, I see it more as a "Jack Bower" type of comment from Cheney to try to make fear relevant like he did while in office cause nobody gives a crap about him unless he make outrageous statements like that.


    Cheney can't keep holding on to the power and he seems to want some part of the limelight still.

    so he has to say scary things to get people to notice him.

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  186. trust me Bart, there are much easier ways to create mass causalities then using nuclear weapons or material, but Cheney wants the press and fear so the neo-cons can remain relevant after screwing up so badly.

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  187. Jack Bauer.

    Funny they use him so much as an example in congress all the time.

    If you've ever watched the show you'd know that no matter how much Bauer tortures someone, he always gets there 5 minutes too late to stop the terrorists, or they give him some false information to trick him into walking into some sort of ambush.

    :|

    Just sayin...he's not exactly a good argument for torture.

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  188. Jack Bauer of 24.

    Always a day late and a terrorist short.

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  189. Bart, Bauer would make it in the real world trust me.

    Especially in the childish way they set his enemies up and the idiotic way they claim the actual weapons work.

    but then they are trying to get the dumber reich wing audience after all.

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  190. He gets so far under cover that he forgets what country he's from.

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  191. wouldn't make it

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  192. Hell he shot his own agency director in the head just because a terrorist told him too.

    :|

    With agents like that who needs terrorists?

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  193. Bart, Olbermann had a point when he said Cheney terrorized more Americans more times the Osama ever did.


    But then again Cheney had more to gain from terrorized Americans then Osama did.

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  194. He's helped terrorists kill people, blow shit up, murder high ranking government officials, build WMD's, ...who needs terrorists with Jack Bauer around?

    :|

    He's every terrorists best friend except for the one he never seems to catch up to.

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  195. clif said...

    Bart, Olbermann had a point when he said Cheney terrorized more Americans more times the Osama ever did.



    Well they never did the poll I thought they should do.

    Who are you more afraid of?

    A. The terrorists

    B. Osama Bin Laden

    C. Dick Cheney

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  196. Oh BTW bart, in case you don't know will is claiming you were the one who posted what ever he was so mad about on his waste of bandwidth since he finally realized that I could have done it.

    I guess he can't stand the idea of getting punked like he did.

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  197. Well bart, it's time I went to sleep.

    later.

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  198. clif said...

    Oh BTW bart, in case you don't know will is claiming you were the one who posted what ever he was so mad about on his waste of bandwidth since he finally realized that I could have done it.


    Really?

    Funny.

    Wouldn't I have to have actually visited his website to post something on it?

    I don't think I've ever even seen it.

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