Monday, October 06, 2008


"Pain is inevitable, suffering optional" - Unknown

Right now, America is fighting for its collective soul. We are struggling to come out of a form of mesmerism. We've been deluded, conned, and lied to long enough. We are in a transition time of wrestling with our dark side. Who will win? It could go either way. We could have a rebirth of love and beauty, like the Birth of Venus.

In this beautiful open country of great minds and ingenuity — we are overflowing with an abundance of resources, raw materials, goods, services, ideas and creativity. There is so much good on the horizon, I have no interest in wallowing in fear. And if our nation is stupid enough to vote in two corrupt, dishonest charlatans like Sarah Palin and John McCain, then we have a lot more pain to go through before we reach the new enlightenment. Palin and McCain represent the dark ages: the backward, fearful, superstitious, small-minded, stingy, bigoted, eye-for-an-eye mentality. They are "our shadow side" as Depak Chopra says. Obama and Biden represent the new enlightenment: the progressive, expansive, generous, caring, compassionate, hopeful, transformative and truly Christian mentality. Eventually we'll get there. You can't stop progress.

4.2 Million New Green Jobs Predicted
A major shift to renewable energy and efficiency is expected to produce 4.2 million new environmentally friendly "green" jobs over the next three decades, according to a study commissioned by the nation's mayors. The report makes "a very compelling economic argument for investing in the green economy and that we're going to get a huge return for it." (Associated Press at MSNBC)

Sarah Palin's Almost Creepy Ambition Should Worry McCain
By Frank Rich, The New York Times. Posted October 6, 2008.

Sarah Palin is the only hope for saving a ticket headed by a warrior who is out of juice and out of ideas. It seems she knows this only too well.

Sarah Palin's post-Couric/Fey comeback at last week's vice presidential debate was a turning point in the campaign. But if she "won," as her indulgent partisans and press claque would have it, the loser was not Joe Biden. It was her running mate. With a month to go, the 2008 election is now an Obama-Palin race -- about "the future," as Palin kept saying Thursday night -- and the only person who doesn't seem to know it is Mr. Past, poor old John McCain.

To understand the meaning of Palin's "victory," it must be seen in the context of two ominous developments that directly preceded it. Just hours before the debate began, the McCain campaign pulled out of Michigan. That state is ground zero for the collapsed Main Street economy and for so-called Reagan Democrats, those white working-class voters who keep being told by the right that Barack Obama is a Muslim who hung with bomb-throwing radicals during his childhood in the late 1960s.

McCain surrendered Michigan despite having outspent his opponent on television advertising and despite Obama's twin local handicaps, an unpopular Democratic governor and a felonious, now former, black Democratic Detroit mayor. If McCain can't make it there, can he make it anywhere in the Rust Belt?

Not without an economic message. McCain's most persistent attempt, his self-righteous crusade against earmarks, collapsed with his poll numbers. Next to a $700 billion bailout package, his incessant promise to eliminate all Washington pork -- by comparison, a puny grand total of $16.5 billion in the 2008 federal budget -- doesn't bring home the bacon. Nor can McCain reconcile his I-will-veto-government-waste mantra with his support, however tardy, of the bailout bill. That bill's $150 billion in fresh pork includes a boondoggle inserted by the Congressman Don Young, an Alaskan Republican no less.

The second bit of predebate news, percolating under the radar, involved the still-unanswered questions about McCain's health. Back in May, you will recall, the McCain campaign allowed a select group of 20 reporters to spend a mere three hours examining (but not photocopying) 1,173 pages of the candidate's health records on the Friday of Memorial Day weekend. Conspicuously uninvited was Lawrence Altman, a doctor who covers medicine for The New York Times. Altman instead canvassed melanoma experts to evaluate the sketchy data that did emerge. They found the information too "unclear" to determine McCain's cancer prognosis.

There was, however, at least one doctor-journalist among those 20 reporters in May, the CNN correspondent Sanjay Gupta. At the time, Gupta told Katie Couric on CBS that the medical records were "pretty comprehensive" and wrote on his CNN blog that he was "pretty convinced there was no 'smoking gun' about the senator's health." (Physical health, that is; Gupta wrote there was hardly any information on McCain's mental health.)

That was then. Now McCain is looking increasingly shaky, whether he's repeating his "Miss Congeniality" joke twice in the same debate or speaking from notecards even when reciting a line for (literally) the 17th time ("The fundamentals of our economy are strong") or repeatedly confusing proper nouns that begin with S (Sunni, Shia, Sudan, Somalia, Spain). McCain's "dismaying temperament," as George Will labeled it, only thickens the concerns. His kamikaze mission into Washington during the bailout crisis seemed crazed. His seething, hostile debate countenance -- a replay of Al Gore's sarcastic sighing in 2000 -- didn't make the deferential Obama look weak (as many Democrats feared) but elevated him into looking like the sole presidential grown-up.


  1. Tah Dah!,

    First post!

  2. 10/6: CNN Pres: Obama 53%, McCain 45%

    Don't matter if your first with NOTHING of consequence to say duncetron,

    Obama is still gonna win son.

  3. I don't think so Clif.

    In case you hadn't noticed, ACORN is being heavily prosecuted for their deceitful registration and vote fraud, the youth vote historically hasn't been that good, and while most may not be happy with Bush they aren't ready to turn socialist just yet.

    In other words, the election is still a LONG way off, and that's the only poll that counts.

  4. Sorry son but Obama IS gonna win, and your gonna hate it.

  5. President Barack Obama

    enjoy duncetron.

  6. "Sorry son but Obama IS gonna win, and your gonna hate it."

    Maybe, but the funny part is that IF he does win, you're gonna hate it too.

    You just haven't figured that out yet.

  7. No son I won't "hate" it at all,

    But a BIGOT like YOU definitely will son.

  8. Hope the twit don't mind returning to Alaska to 'splain her idiotic attempt to squash Troopergate.

  9. Cause SEVEN of the minions who refused to testify when you LOSERS delusively thought she had a chance to be VP ( and national reich wing jerk off material)are NOW gonna testify

  10. The stock market was ugly today with the DOW down 800 points at on point, worst of all instead of the REAL panic selling and capitulation that signal a bottom we've had a sickly slow bleed type of stock market that tells me things COULD go as low as 6500 possibly before you get the kind of capitulation and panic selling that signals a market bottom.

    Keep in mind here that the stock market forshadows the economt meaning the stock market rising can signal the end of a severe recession BEFORE the actual economy starts recovering just as a stock market plummetting usually signals the START of a recession before it actually happens or is realized by economists.

    When a recession ACTUALLY does hit earnings and stock prices and employment are revised down MANY times.............what this means is that unemployment could very well hit 8% or more by next year, causing more forclosures and lower real easte prices if real estate prices fall another 5%-10% which with rising unemployment, a declining stock market and a liquidity crisis is almost assured then 40% of ALL mortgages will be underwater where equity is negative and the liklihood of borrowers walking away and letting the houses mortgages fall into forclosure is MUCH MUCH greater.

    Once a vicious circle starts it feeds itself...........this is going to become bigger than just subprime REAL fast if over 40% of ALL mortgages are in the negative defaults and forclosures will spike SUBSTANTIALLY.

    Also keep in mind the bailout CANT work WITHOUT also helping homeowners to keep their homes and when the government helps SOME people that could very well cause others to LET their homes fall into forclosure so they get help also thus causing forclosures to rise AGAIN till the bailout includes almost everyone on some level............then the dollar will crash and foreign capital will flee and things will get bad because interest rates will rise and liquidity will dry up again.

  11. I'm not trying to be negative here or scare anyone but people NEED to protect themselves when all is said and done the Misery Index could be well over 30%-35% with 15% unemployment and 15%-20% inflation.

    The stock market is rotten this isnt even close to panic selling, we've had slow bleed 250-800 point sell offs with low volume the last month and thats bad............that says we're not even CLOSE to a bottom and despite the senile McSame's proclamation the fundamentals of the economy are as rotten as i've EVER seen them............I seriously think a 6000-8000 DOW is possible by 2009.

  12. Much of the past consumer spending thats been propping up the economy the last 6 years has been from people pulling equity out of their homes and going into debt running up their credit cards and with that debt ATM over the economy has NOEHERE to go but fall.

    Like it or not a severe recession is INEVITABLE!

  13. SO FAR the FED and TREASURY have focused on Banks and Wall Street by cutting interest rates and trying to keep lenders solvent..............Consumers which are 2/3 of the economy are going down and they have done essentially NOTHING to help consumers...........interest rates were cut to 2% and my credit card rates and rates on car loans and 30 year mortgages essentially havent budged.............TELL ME HOW THAT HELPS PEOPLE ON MAIN STREET AGAIN, when consumers are 2/3's of the economy?

  14. McSame and Palin babbling about terrorists and going negative will cause his polls to plummet faster than the DOW!

  15. Talking about stupid ignorant fascust BS like being unamerican or dubious guilt by associations with 40 year old domestic terrorists while the nations economy is imploding is like NERO Fiddling while Rome makes the senile idiot look even MORE out of touch and slimy!

  16. Americans are sick and tired of that smear and fear fascist BS that deflets from the REAL issues that the repugs cant compete on and are totally out of touch on!

  17. BTW duncetron just agreed with real clear politics no toss ups map.

    They both say Obama wins BIG-TIME son.

  18. Enjoy duncetron.

  19. Can you say LANDSLIDE!

  20. All the polls -- even the ones from Faux News -- have got Obama ahead in both the popular vote and the electoral college. Obama has taken a substantial lead in Michigan, Ohio, Pennsylvania, and numerous others. Here in Missouri, it's been switched from a Red State to a Swing State and in my door-to-door canvassing for the campaign, we have him more than 2 to 1 in my county.

    It's going to happen folks. Life is good.

  21. Tomorrow night's debate -- which is a town hall and is McCain's specialty -- could end up being the clincher if Obama does as well as he did in the first debate ... or if McCain does as badly as he did.

    Now if the old McCain shows up -- the one from 10 years ago -- it might be a different story. But if the grouchy old fart McCain that's been out campaigning shows up, he might as well make the concession phone call at the end of the debate.

  22. Mike any more bad news and St Johnny is gonna have to go negative ....

    Oh Right

    he already did ... well the twit did,

    Wasn't he the senile old foole who claimed when they go negative their showing just how desperate they are?

  23. McSame's a desperate senile angry old man..............all he has LEFT is the hailmary pass..................he's like a guy who is losing a fight just throwing a bunch of wild haymakers hoping some land and he can get lucky and make something happen.

    McSame's FINISHED!

  24. Mike hang seng is already down 2.5%

    looks like the crash is still traveling,

    Russia and Brazil stopped trading yesterday,

    I wonder if they will have to do that again?

  25. Obama NEES to focus on the issues and appear competent respectful and Presidential..............BUT he NEEDS to press McSame and take shots when theres an opening and he can put this away................he NEEDS to show a killer instinct and take shots when McSame gives him an opening, point out the incoherency of McSame's policies and campaign and call him on things and ask him questions.............he needs to push things and engage McSame and watch mcsame fall apart and beat himself.

    IF Obama pokes and pushes McSame in a respectful but aggressive way McSame will either implode and look senile and incoherent or snap and look angry and unstable!

  26. Russia's been looking REAL bad.............they've been hitting the curbs and pumping in liquidity several times a week for several weeks now!

  27. Its like a boxer throwing a jab Obama has to keep him off balance by poking him with the jab and when McSame gives him an opening he needs to throw shots with bad intentions that do REAL damages that there is NO comeback for.

  28. Hell Mike, both Germany and Ireland had to guarantee all bank accounts, and Iceland is entering Wiemar territory soon. The British are about toast and Spain is as bad as we are in real estate.

    This freeze of credit especially commercial paper is gonna cut employment and feed the cycle down.

    The Chinese have industries buying their own stock to try and halt their crash .....

    this is gone world wide and viral and is now feeding on itself.

  29. That will happen here once the endgame comes.............for this bailout to have a prayer of working it will require at least close to 3 trillion couple that with the flight of foreign capital due to the trashed dollar that will cause the government to monetize our debts and we'll be fast approaching Weimar...........Fascist Fan isnt wrong about buying gold!

  30. Not sure about Weimar here Mike,

    as we are still the last place many put capital,

    so if deflation catches on globally,

    Weimar is not possible and it looks more likely deflation instead of inflation.

  31. Its possible in the endgame Clif....................there was deflation PRIOR to Wiemar also...........the Wiemar inflation was a result of firing up the printing presses to monetize that debt so they could pay it back with worthless currency...........infllation is many times the result of trying to combat deflation and failing economies that slip into Depression.

  32. Its the result of failed shortsited policies that seem to delusionally think a little hair of the dog is the cure for failed morrally bankrupt policies advocating excessive debt and reckless deregulation like the repugs always have!

  33. Mike in a global meltdown there is NOT going to be a printing press orgy, cause there is NO reason to try to settle accounts that way, they need to reset the entire machine first.

  34. Remember the only time Weimar happens is when one country is way outa wack, NOT when the entire planet is way outa wack.

  35. Weimar in Germany was possible because GB and France were MORE stable by comparison.

  36. There still needs to be income redistributions via fair tax policies and the government WILL need to use the printing press to pay for things we NEED like Social Security, oil etc.....

  37. If its bad enough I could see tax rates going as high as the Reagan era 50% fairly quickly!

  38. Mike, Weimar requires a mis-match between currencies, because of what trade means to us.

    Yes we need to pay for what we need, but FDR did it with out any Wiemar.

  39. There was also plenty of gold back in FDR's day...........theres very little today...........when other countries stop accepting our toilet paper like currency what then?

  40. Mike, they at the moment, are crashing faster then we are.

    In effect their currencies are falling.

    The foreign unbalances aren't as large as the economic crisis in the markets, the CDS and derivatives dwarf all our foreign debt by a magnitude of 300+, so that is what will be driving this now NOT our paltry(by comparison) debt.

  41. Mike if they raised tax rates to 50 percent on normal working class people they'd bankrupt the economy instantly.

    What Hoover, and then FDR did, was raise taxes on the top 2 percent of earners. Coolidge had reduced taxes to a flat 25 percent on the top tax bracket, (Bush made em even lower) and this is thought to have been a key factor in the onset of the great depression of 29. Hoover and FDR both raised this figure, Hoover taking it up to 65 percent and FDR taking it up to a whopping 79 percent at one point.

    Obamas plan is to raise taxes on the top tax brackets and lower them for everyone else, which is similar to FDR and Hoovers plans, both pivotal to ending the great depression.

    McCains plan is to lower or keep low taxes for the top tax brackets, which of course will just make things worse.

  42. I meant the top 2% of earners...................i'm not a fool that thinks raising taxes on the middle class helps the economy..............what have i been saying for the last 3-4 years?

  43. Ok. I was just making sure.

  44. Believe me I know about the Depression AND Obama's plan......................Obama wants to cut taxes for 80% of America 300% MORE than McSame and THAT would be very good for the economy.

  45. Warren Buffet said it best if you want to HELP stimulate the economy its MUCH better to give 10 million people a $1000 tax cut than giving 1000 people a 10 million dollar tax cut.

  46. Its more than 80 percent I think Mike. Obama's plan is to cut taxes for American earners earning under 250,000. And that is about 2 to 3 percent of the country, making over 250,000, so of actual wage earners, Obama's plan should cut taxes for around 95 percent of Americans, allowing a few percent for those who for one reason or another wouldn't qualify.

    His plans on the right track. McCains plan is to gamble that the same trickle down economics that hasn't worked for the last 8 years will suddenly start working, and that of course is a fools errand.

  47. I think the stock markets will go up on word of an Obama win.

  48. Don't look good over there;

    Nikkei 10,148.50 -324.63 -3.2%
    H Seng 16,803.80 -878.64 -5.1%

  49. Bart Obama is proposing cutting tax on 95% of Americans but his plan says 80% of Americans will get over $1000 or 300% more of a tax cut than McSame!

  50. I'm on Obama's strategic planning committy..............I have flyers with all the differences between Obama's ppolicies and McSame's and we did a get out the vote effort for what its worth...............McSame will still most likely take Texas!

  51. I think it will level off and come back Clif. Lot of panic because of the way they did the vote. If they had approved it the first time when the markets were climbing it would have had a much more positive effect. The delay made for a lot of panic, as does a lot of bad news. But heres the thing. Its all fueling itself. If they start pumping that money in now they'll stabilize it.

  52. Mike said...

    I'm on Obama's strategic planning committy..............

    So THATS the problem, lol.

  53. Bart many of the problems with foreign markets have less to do with our bailout then their own problems,

    Last weekend Europe saw 5 banks either get government rescue or crash.

  54. I think an Obama win would be perceived as good by the market and might get a rally but ultimately the direction is STILL down.............we havent even come close to the high volume panic selling and capitulation that signifies market bottom..............I think we need to see a 1500 point drop with very high volume for things to look more positive.............belive it or not these slow bleed 250-800 point low volume drops are WORSE than a big panic drop because they say the market has a LOT farther to fall before it bottoms.

    Remember we havent even officially entered a recession the trend is down.

  55. But we are down 30.7% in the DOW already ....... the bear is growing.

  56. I believe the 1970's bear market was down about 45% in nominal terms and 90% in REAL terms when adjusted for inflation............the Great Depression was also down 90%...................I think this could be similar or close to those declines!

  57. Christ you guys are thick.

    FDR didn't END the depression. His policies EXTENDED it to the point we might have never gotten out if it hadn't been for WW2.

    You think the market will go UP if you increase the taxes on the people who RUN it?

    If Obama implements his tax strategy you better hang on to that "tax cut" you get. It'll only get worse from there.

    A lot of what we're seeing in the market might be them factoring in an Obama win.

    (Regarding there being lots of gold back then, FDR made it illegal to OWN gold. He took it from millions of people, gave them cash and told them they could redeem their gold after the crisis had ended. He reneged on the deal and instead inflated the hell out of the dollar by printing all he could to buy up as much gold as possible on world markets.)

  58. Damn dolty still defending the failed policies which brought us this fiasco, sorta like you defended the failed Iraq fiasco until the Nov 2006 election results ......

  59. Well Clif, I'd have to say your beliefs about WHOSE policies caused this are on shaky ground.

    SNL did a skit on just who was to blame, and it wasn't Bush. (big surprise) AND EVEN ALEC BALDWIN admitted it was the Dems that caused the problem on Bill Maher's show.

    Bill Clinton even admitted as much earlier this week.

    The people that have your back ain't buying it, "son".

  60. And of course it's just a "coincidence" that everything just happened to go to shit shortly after the 2006 elections wasn't it?

  61. And now I'm sure Bart will come back and tell us that SNL and Alec and Billy boy are all "darlings" of the right wing eh?

    Just like he said about Katie Communist and Matt Liar...

  62. Sorry but saying SNL is the basis of your argument is just funny son.

    The crash was caused by the greed on Wall Street fueled by the Bush Admin refusal to regulate that greed.

    NOTHING you reich wing LIARS claim .. made the Wall Street greedmeisters to bundle the toxic waste and sell it as investments, or other greedmeisters to buy that toxic shit with out checking out what it really was.

    nothing BUT greed.

    the rest is normal reich wing LIES

  63. Liar NO ONE of any concequence with ANY credibility stated it was the dems fault troll...........and the collapse was LONG overdue i've talked about it for 4 years now as idiots like Rusty and Fascist Fan have mocked me and AS USUAL who was right and who was DEAD WRONG Duncetron?

  64. Isn't it funny that the people who are supposed to be the most knowledgeable claimed last year all is well, and now their bank corps are crashing ....

  65. Sorry asswipe but the repugnant assholes controlled congress from 1994 till 2006 and THEY didn't do a god damned thing to prevent this.

    They PUSHED hard for more with Greenspan cuttin' interest rates to fuel the fire.

  66. But as usual duncetron LIES and spins the reich wing talking points

  67. cause that is all he gots left.

  68. Now son it's about time for your butt buddy ... crusty the big pussy to show up ain't it numbnuts?

  69. Answer me this little troll...........IF the market and Wall Street want the repugs to win SO BAD that the market is "SCARED" of an Obama win as you "CLAIM"..............then why the hell are 85% of Wall Streets campaign contributions going to Obama little troll?

  70. "Liar NO ONE of any concequence with ANY credibility stated it was the dems fault troll"

    Bill Clinton has no credibility or consequence?

    Alec Baldwin doesn't have any credibility with you? You guys loved him when he was ranting about stoning Henry Hyde AND his FAMILY to death.

    And SNL is about as left wing as you can get. They chew up Republicans for breakfast. When THEY'RE making fun of you your losing your base.

  71. Spin people who are on the outside, BUT this crash was orchestrated FROM Wall Street and it is NO accident Paulson is sittin' at treasury when the shit hit the fan son.

    Wall Street investment banks TOLD mortgage co's to sell as much crap mortgages as they could.

    and then folded them into investments they LIED about then sold as AAA investments.

    that is the FACTS you always ignore with your lies and spin son.

  72. that and the credit default swaps invented by wall street bankers in the mid 1990's which is the very foundation of the fear in the credit markets.

  73. "Sorry asswipe but the repugnant assholes controlled congress from 1994 till 2006 and THEY didn't do a god damned thing to prevent this."

    They tried Cliffy. They didn't have a LARGE enough majority to pull it off.
    McCain tried, as did Bush. The Dems covered for their buddies repeatedly.

    I have the video of the 2004 hearings on Freddie/Fannie on my blog. Too bad you didn't watch it.
    They attacked the regulator for even calling their accounting practices into question. Barney Frank is there saying he see's NO PROBLEM at all with either of them.
    Maxine Waters PRAISING Raines for his brilliant leadership...

  74. Nobody know who holds the worst CDS so they refuse to deal with each other thus the credit freeze.

    which your juvenile crap posts don't even deal with.

  75. They didn't have a LARGE enough majority to pull it off.


    they did everything they WANTED.

    they just never wanted to do squat about it.

  76. Freddie and fannie had NOTHING to do with the orders from wall street to create liar loans then bundle them into toxic investments OR the CDS ponzi scheme, it is just the only thing you professional; LIARS have to keep the real truth from comin' out, this was planned for profit and now it has crashed.

    As usual your just LYING through your face.

  77. Your right Clif. It IS greed. But there's a lot of that to go around.

    "Wall Street investment banks TOLD mortgage co's to sell as much crap mortgages as they could."

    After being assured by Freddie/Fannie that they were government backed. After being protected by the likes of Waters and Frank.

    What about the greed of Raines and Johnston and Gorelick who got multi-million dollar bonuses on half to three quarters of a mil salaries?

  78. the wall street 370 TRILLION CDS and derivative debt has nada to do with fannie or freddie, but is the foundation of the credit freeze.

    you LYING gutless punks want to blame fannie or freddie because since the 1930's the asshole reichwing traitors to the US wanted to destroy the fannie and freddie since the 1970's

  79. NO son they were NOT told BEFORE they created the mechanisms to the tell bankers to BREAK LAW son.

    ANOTHER LIE asshole

  80. Are you so damned stupid you think the REPUBLICANS were the ones trying to get the "poor" and "minorities" into homes when they couldn't qualify for a standard mortgage?

    Was it the REPUBLICANS who insisted they lower their lending standards to help the poor?

    Like I said, I have the video. Don't wanna watch it at my place? Check out Youtube. It's there.

  81. The real problem was the new math investment schemes which had too many variables which when prices dipped sent the scheme into very real deep losses.

    that is the root of the problem your too god damned stupid to understand.

  82. IDIOT the CDS and derivatives have very little to do with real estate

    but they underlay the entire planets economic woes.

    your still a lying reich wing hack who doesn't understand what is really happening

  83. The mortgage bubble is around 3-6 trillion the CDS/derivate problem is 370 trillion.

    but it's an election year so the professional LIARS (ie YOU)have to make their favorite targets the problem instead of the truth.

  84. and you parrot the reich wing lines as usual instead of learning the real problem and what it means.

  85. Your JOKE of a blog is a perfect example of that.

  86. "IDIOT the CDS and derivatives have very little to do with real estate "

    "Freddie and fannie had NOTHING to do with the orders from wall street to create liar loans then bundle them into toxic investments OR the CDS ponzi scheme"

    So which is it Clif?

    Did they fold the loans INTO toxic investments and CDS?

    OR does it really have very little to do with the loans?

    You can't have it BOTH ways.

  87. You grab for what ever makes your reich wing BIGOTED views feel good instead of looking at the facts and what is really happening all around the planet to the world economy, which has exactly the same problem.

    Britain and Spain have the same real estate problems because of the same banking investment schemes..

    Europe have the same CDS problems we have which also infected China

    but according to a DUNCE like YOU it is ALL fannie and freddie's fault.

  88. IDIOT the CDS aren't investments BUT bets that nobody selling a CDS will default, you don't even KNOW what the hell they are do ya son?

  89. Buy a clue Clif. It's a WORLD market. Sure the rest of the world is going down too. WE SOLD THEM THE FRIGGIN DEBT IN THE FIRST PLACE.

    And Freddie/Fannie was simply the first domino to fall.

  90. The CDS ponzi scheme was hatched in the mid 1990's long before Phil Gramm was able to gut regulations to keep investment banks separate from the savings and loan industry.

    It is something separate from the housing bubble.

    The housing bubble crash exposed how bad the CDS scheme is in a down turn, BUT any down turn would have exposed it.

  91. Voltron said...
    Are you so damned stupid you think the REPUBLICANS were the ones trying to get the "poor" and "minorities" into homes when they couldn't qualify for a standard mortgage?

    Was it the REPUBLICANS who insisted they lower their lending standards to help the poor?

    Like I said, I have the video. Don't wanna watch it at my place? Check out Youtube. It's there."

    Far be it from me to ever insinuate the repugs give a RATS ASS about helping the for YOUR BS lie that the demacrats forced companies to bankrupt themselves by giving out liar loans or qualifying people that should NEVER have been qualified..............thats YOUR STRAWMAN argument TROLL not was greed by WAll Street and the Morgage firms that caused them to loan to people who didnt have a prayer of repaying the loan..............the demacrats nor ANYONE else in government held a gun to their head or FORCED them to give away loans that were against their interests or would bankrupt their companies.

    Thats absurd and you dont have a shred of proof to back up that outrageous statement other than your troll BS and lies.

  92. STUPID the world is infected with CDS debt NOT the CDO debt,

    It is orders of magnitude much lower than the CDS debt.

    which PROVES you don't know what the hell you're talking points mean.

  93. You really don't understand this but are tryin to spin reich wing lies like you always have.

  94. CDO's are where the mortgages were bundled,

    CDS are MUCH larger.

    a hundred times larger problem

  95. Your a liar just like you desperate MORONS keep trying to tie Obama to Franklin Raines when both have said there is NO association..............funny though McSame's campaign manager DOES have ties to the mortgage company though..............your nothing more than a slime merchant trying to carry water for liars............dont you realize what complete failures you idiots are timje to retire and hide you face in shame like that IDIOT Troll Tex did.

    Dont you have ANY pride?

  96. "IDIOT the CDS aren't investments BUT bets that nobody selling a CDS will default, you don't even KNOW what the hell they are do ya son?"

    So, the 'BETS' aren't investments but 'BETS' that nobody selling a 'BET' will default?

    And your prior claim that they "bundled" the bad loans INTO the CDS?

    Sounds like YOU'RE the one that doesn't know what the hell you're talking about.

  97. Cause only CDO investments are involving mortgages, BUT all corps could sell CDS debt.

    Many did and the banks who played in that market are getting caught in the toxic mess they represent in a down turn.

    Both US and foreign.

    That is what really brought down Wall Street banks NOT the CDO investments.

  98. So, the 'BETS' aren't investments but 'BETS' that nobody selling a 'BET' will default?M

    No son the CDS bets ain't investment like CDO's are cause there is NO real tangable intrinsic value or real property involved.

    And your prior claim that they "bundled" the bad loans INTO the CDS?

    Never said that, YOU still don't have a clue do ya boy

    YOU can't bundle a mortgage into a CDS because they don't hold any credit vehicle like a mortgage, but are a separate idea entirely son.
    Sounds like YOU'RE the one that doesn't know what the hell you're talking about. bingo duncetron that is YOU in a nutshell.

  99. Try LEARNING something beside reich wing talking points and reading assholes who sell reich wing crap in their columns, but never use real facts pertinent to the problem at hand, just attack the normal reich wing piñatas they have attacked since 1980

  100. You wouldn't looks so stupid all the time here duncetron.

  101. See son congress has never held a hearing about CDS till this year(nor CDO's either) and they are the underlying vehicles which banks hold which are the reasons so many balance sheets are in the red now a days, and the mark to market of CDS is what is bringing the whole house of cards down, because the values of the CDS debt exceeds a lot of banks balance sheets.

    If it was JUST CDO's the Paulson plan would work, BUT the CDS problem makes the Paulson plan just a drop in the bucket of debt.

  102. " for YOUR BS lie that the demacrats forced companies to bankrupt themselves by giving out liar loans or qualifying people that should NEVER have been qualified..."

    They didn't think they would go bankrupt Mikey. Freddie and Fannie ASSURED them they were government backed. AND yes Frank others leaned heavily on them to take welfare and unemployment insurance among other laughable items as "income" in order to qualify people.

    "...the demacrats nor ANYONE else in government held a gun to their head or FORCED them to give away loans that were against their interests"

    Yes they did. The regulators could refuse permissions to build branches in other communities or initiate IRS investigations of the banks themselves.

    Oh and Cliffy?

    "The CDS ponzi scheme was hatched in the mid 1990's long before Phil Gramm was able to gut regulations to keep investment banks separate from the savings and loan industry."

    "The Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act of 1999 (called the Financial Services Modernization Act at the time) repealed 66 years of consumer protections and paved the way for financial mergers and the introduction of new investment products. The Act was written by Republican Senators including Phil Gramm, and early voting was split down party lines until President Clinton forced a rewrite of the bill.

    Clinton vowed to veto the Senate version of the bill unless it was re-written to include "requirements that banks make loans to minorities, farmers, and others who have had little access to credit."

    It was rewritten and CLINTON signed it in 1999.

  103. Sorry son BUT your reich wing hack post don't deal with the CDS debt son, try again.

  104. CDS is the real problem which is collapsing the banks around the planet,

    3-6 trillion debt couldn't collapse the whole planets economy,

    BUT 370 trillion can.

  105. Try again duncetron.

  106. and son how about LINKS top the reich wing talking points you spew son, so we can check if your LYING again like you do.

  107. I think I'll open a Bindle-Stick outlet.

  108. Kevin Hassett, director of economic-policy studies at the American Enterprise Institute, is a Bloomberg News columnist. He is an adviser to Republican Senator John McCain of Arizona in the 2008 presidential election. The opinions expressed are his own

    A reich wing AEI paid liar, you gotta do better then that son.

    How about somebody who don't work as a paid reich wing LIAR son?

  109. Try the CDS debacle which is the real problem, the CDO's was just the straw that broke Wall Streets built bubble and caused the CDS equations to invert to negative and sent balance sheets into the red.

  110. I guess dolty of doin' the google tryin to figger out what I am sayin'

    cause to him it is just letters with out real meaning,

    CDO CDS no real difference to dolty it seems.

  111. either that or tryin to figger out if he really needs that punk crusty to help him now.

  112. Well duncetron when you LEARN;

    why a CDO ain't a CDS

    why the reich wing talking points that your spewing to try to make the repubies not responsible so you thunk McCain might have a chance,

    instead of learning the real size of the problem

    why Britain and Spain have bigger problems in real estate then we do

    BUT why everyone has the CDS problem get back to me,

    I'm going to sleep.

  113. Duncetron said "Clinton vowed to veto the Senate version of the bill unless it was re-written to include "requirements that banks make loans to minorities, farmers, and others who have had little access to credit."

    It was rewritten and CLINTON signed it in 1999."

    It required they NOT exclude minorities or those with little accrss from credit that are capable of repaying loans from getting NEVER said to recklessly loan money that doesnt have a prayer of ever being repaid.............its absurd to make that CLAIM!

  114. Asian markets show signs of life after global route

    By KELLY OLSEN, AP Business Writer
    46 minutes ago
    SEOUL, South Korea -

    Asian stocks showed signs of life Tuesday after a global market sell-off, with several markets climbing into positive territory or paring losses after opening sharply lower.

    Australian stocks jumped after the country's central bank cut interest rates by a bigger-than-expected 1 percentage point to 6 percent in response to the unfolding global financial crisis. The S&P/ASX-200 index rose 2 percent to 4,634 after opening down 3.7 percent.

    Japan's benchmark Nikkei 225 index erased some losses after briefly falling over 5 percent to below 10,000 for the first time in almost five years. By midday, it was trading about 1.7 percent lower at 10,292.

    Markets in South Korea, India, Singapore and Taiwan all edged higher.

    I'm with Lydia on this one. A little positive thinking here can go a long way. We can go down a bit without crashing. No guaruntees but its possible if we keep positive, don't panic, and do smart things from here on out.

    Panic precedes the crisis, but it also precipitates it. Panic causes people to pull their money out, then those securities and funds that they're pulling their money out of are devalued, and it spirals on down.

    By remaining calm in the face of the crisis and not panicing, we can help route one. We can deter it by not giving in to it. Like I said no guaruntees but if we don't make it then at least we'll go down fighting.

  115. Ah -- Life is good.

    The second debate is tonight and after allowing Palin to pull Ayers and Wright out of her sleeve, several of McCain's past issues are coming back into the liht -- Iran-Contra, Keating 5, and so on ...

    Had a particulary good day at work yesterday

    Received a piece of VERY good news in my email this morning

    Life is very good.

  116. She don't LOSE nice;

    Worse, Palin's routine attacks on the media have begun to spill into ugliness. In Clearwater, arriving reporters were greeted with shouts and taunts by the crowd of about 3,000. Palin then went on to blame Katie Couric's questions for her "less-than-successful interview with kinda mainstream media." At that, Palin supporters turned on reporters in the press area, waving thunder sticks and shouting abuse. Others hurled obscenities at a camera crew. One Palin supporter shouted a racial epithet at an African American sound man for a network and told him, "Sit down, boy

    St Sarah is NO Hillary Clinton

    More like a sore PUMA loser.

    Oh right they were repubies all along anyway.

  117. Looks like st Sarah's winkin' at the reich wing tools didn't really impress the rest of the country cause the polls are still going Obama's way;

    US: Obama 52, McCain 41 (Daily Kos 10/04-06)

    US: Obama 52, McCain 44 (Rasmussen 10/04-06)

    It's interesting they are almost the same, when the didn't used to be this close in their polling.

    After tonight McCain's campaign is probably finished, and he can slink back into the senate. The Twit, who cares?

  118. If John McCain wants a campaign song;

    This is certainly it right now


    It even has a refrain for the TWIT after November

  119. They should play it for him where ever he goes.

  120. Damn, dolty, you are sure grasping those straws now, aren't you?

    Are you going to do the country a favor and leave after November? Let me know how I can help. That's assuming any other country would be stupid enough to let you in, of course.

  121. In the markets today, they are definitely in sync with Caribou Barbie.

    Drill, Baby, Drill.

  122. Here is the problem with the markets people.
    Dow dips more than 500 on worries about financials By TIM PARADIS, AP Business Writer
    8 minutes ago

    Steps by the Federal Reserve to reinvigorate the dormant credit markets ultimately weren't enough to calm nervous investors. News about financial companies only added to their despondent mood.

    "The calls I'm getting — every money manager I deal with, and every client I talk to — are just very emotional. This is a very, very emotional time, and most of them are taking steps to shore up their defenses, reducing exposure to stocks just to defend their portfolios," said Hugh Johnson, chairman and chief investment officer of Johnson Illington Advisors.


    Does anyone here "get it" yet?




    If everyone would just stop screaming the sky is falling, take a step back, take a breath and RELAX, we could pull this out like we've done every time we've faced a grim problem.

    The money being lost today isn't because of anything tangible. Its being lost because of rumors and fearmongering.

    Read the article. LISTEN. LOOK. Read it. Understand.

    Don't say just hear me and say "yea but the markets losing due to blah blah blah".

    Listen to what they're telling you.

    "The calls I'm getting — every money manager I deal with, and every client I talk to — are just very emotional.

    This crisis is a self fueling crisis and is being caused not be some horrendus loss but losses caused by fear mongering.

    Don' take what I'm saying the wrong way just look at it. Look at how the cycle works. If you look at the great depression the slide of 29 was caused by fear and a run on the banks. Years later, FDR launched his bank holiday for that reason, basically shutting down the banks to stop a run on them. And it worked.

    Well, we're not to that point yet but we could be any day now if people don't stop with the doom and gloom talk.

    That goes for every blogger on the internet, everyone standing around the office water cooler and every news caster, journalist, pundit, and financial commentator etc, out there. Everyones doing it and its why things are getting so badly so quickly. People are "emotional" and they are spreading their own fear.

    What makes the horses all run off the cliff is not the cougar chasing them. Its the panic, and they all just follow each other right off the cliff.

  123. Think of it this way. If you were in a crowded building, and there was a fire, and the fire alarms had been pulled already, and the fire dept notified, which course of action do you think would do more good?

    A. Run through the building screaming yelling "fire fire, run for your lives!!!"

    B. Walk calmly and quietly to the exits without panic, helping others as you go.


    Please check one of the above.

  124. Everyone saw the movie, "Apollo 13", right? If not maybe you've seen the historical footage from inside the control room at Houston Space Flight Center, where Flight Director Gene Krantz is hearing from all the departments who have nothing but bad news for him.

    Everything "appears" to be falling apart, and it looks like they're screwed. Krantz looks at everyone and says , What do we have on the spacecraft thats good? ... lets not make the problem worse.. by guessing".

    Krantz new panic was the predecessor of disaster, and he refused to permit the negative talk in his control room. He outright refused. Not just in the movie, but in real life. At one point Krantz looked at a few less than optomistic flight controllers and managers and said;

    We've never lost an American in space, we're sure as hell not gonna lose one on my watch!, which is when he uttered the now, time honored declaration;

    Failure is not an option.

    Many democrats would like to see an economic collapse, because it helps in the polls. Most who feel that way either have divested their money into foriegn securities and silver, etc, or have nothing worth losing anyway, and live on a meager income and don't own a home, property, or possess any real wealth.

    Some republicans also would like to see an economic collapse because they think they can leverage it to make the dems look bad.

    And the rest of us just carry the water, helping to spread the panic by repeating every tidbit of bad news we can lay our hands on.

    The things that are broken are things that will require a lot of time to fix, and lot of little changes over a long period of time. We can implement those corrections but we need to do it GRACEFULLY.

    Not clumsily out of panic, like Congress did last October when the IDIOT that is Nancy Pelosi began sounding the war cry of INVESTIGATION, HEARINGS!!! HEADS WILL ROLL!!!

    Hers and Harry Reid spearheaded the stampede, forcing all the mortgage lenders into lockdown mode. Money dried up for mortgages and that in turn caused a crash in home sales which in turn snowballed into thousands of different businesses and industries all which rely on the housing market.

    Greenspan tried to warn us that the housing market was the crux of the economy but Pelosi and Reid wouldn't listen, because they wanted this crash, right now, just weeks before the elections.

    Believe me or not, but thats the truth. I told everyone in here last October that this would happen, and that Harry Reid and Nancy Pelosi were setting us up for an economic crash right before the general election, and now, here we are.

    So heres the deal.

    If everyone would focus on whats working, instead of constantly focus on whats broken, then we can keep the ship afloat long enough to make repairs, which will take sometime.

    But if we focus on panic and gloom and doom talk, we're going to reap the rewards of that talk, and we'll get exactly what we predict, because we willed it into existence with our predictions.

    If investors are not afraid, then they'll invest again, as we saw on the global DOW last night, when the world markets rallied.

    Focus on whats working, not whats broken. We know whats broken. And we know its going to take time to fix. SO we need to focus on what works, and what WILL work.

    And "hanging CEO's" and "making the fat cats pay" is not going to do anything to stimulate the economy. They're not going anywhere. We'll get em when we've got enough money in the bank to pay the federal investigators salaries. For now, lets focus on what WORKS, and what will get us out, and stop all the doom and gloom crap.

    Because the truth is failure is just NOT an option.

    So lets stop trying to make it one.

  125. clif said...
    bart, tell it to the IMF;

    IMF Says World Economy Heading for `Major Downturn'

    Thats it clif, beat the drum louder.

  126. People who have nothing to lose aren't just cheering on this disaster.

    They're welcoming it.

    If you had accumulated any real wealth in your life clif, you'd put away the doom and gloom signs.

    But alas, you'd rather cry panic, and watch the stampede go.

  127. Well, thats it for me tonight.

    Somehow tonight I just can't stomach all the goddamned sky is falling shit.

  128. You just don't get it.

    Problems like this can be controlled, if we don't let panic in.

    You ever hearded cattle clif? Ever had em run on you? A run can turn into a stampede with just a little bit of panic out of the cowhands. Just a little. But if they're calm, and ride the herd down to speed, they can avert an out of control herd from an all out stampede.

    You gotta learn to think positive in your life clif. I swear you're the most negative person I've ever listened to. When I think of you I literally see a gray haired bearded old man standing on a street corner with a sign that says, "THE END IS NEAR".

    I think the world of you clif, but the negativity is just so very very vexing to my spirit. I don't hang out with negative people in my circle of friends because its just too taxing on the spirit.

  129. Sorry if reality depresses you so much at this time.

  130. Shit. I know shit's bad right now, with all that starving bullshit, and the dust storms, and we are running out of french fries and burrito coverings.

    But I got a solution see.

    We got this guy... Not Sure...

    President Dwayne Elizondo Mountain Dew Herbert Camacho - "IDIOCRACY"

  131. Bullsh*t. This ISN'T just emotion; this is an awakening. People are realizing exactly what 8 years of economic neoliberalism have done to tip the scales. The reason nobody's selling anything anymore is because all but the very top of the income ladder have seen their incomes stangate and/or decline at the same time that there have been huge price spikes in damn near EVERYTHING.

    Would you like to tell ME I'm being "emotional?" I've been paying off as much debt as I can because of the holes in my income that are getting bigger every time the price of a dozen eggs goes up.

  132. It ain't emotion because Russia is negotiating a LOAN to Iceland to stop them from defaulting.

    Pakistan is about broke, so broke they might not be able to but oil and other needed commodities on the world market.

    It is a world wide problem which is still getting larger no matter how many happy thoughts we have.

  133. You guys just don't get it.

    It IS emotion. Its FEAR.

    FEAR is whats crashing the stock market. READ the papers. FEAR is whats causing investors to pull out of stocks, just like it was FEAR that caused them to pull out of us backed Securities, which started this whole thing.

    And the fear is being spread by people just like you, who don't want to look at solutions, but just want to join in the sky is falling chant.

    Sorry fellas, but I do have something to lose here and its all this fear that perpetuates a crisis.

    And JollyRoger? I didn't say it was ALL emotion. I said there are issues, and I've spelled those issues out PAINSTAKINGLY in this blog over the past few weeks.

    But its FEAR thats PERPETUATING the problem, and SNOWBALLING IT.

  134. Remember that fire a while back at that nightclub, where I think it was White Snake or some group playing, and their pyrotechnics started a fire?

    Something like 100 people were either hurt or killed?

    Remember that?

    It wasn't the fire that killed the people.


    It was the stampede, fueled on by a lot of panicing people yelling FIRE!!!! RUN FOR YOUR LIVES!!!!.

  135. Bart the problem is MUCH larger then the US stock market.

    But it seems Americans don't want to see that.

    The problem is WORLD WIDE, and looks certain to get worse no matter what a few bloggers say.

  136. Sometimes happy thoughts are NOT the solution.

  137. I hate a mob mentality. I think I hate a mob, or groupthink mentality more than any other trait known to man or beast.

    And I say beast, because that is after all, where that mentality orginiates. Its a "Lowbrain" function, to follow the crowd. Its built into our stem actually, and not even in the cerebral cortex.

    Its the same function that causes a horse, or other dumb animal to follow the one in front of him, even if its off a cliff.

    Mob mentalities cause the herd to shift with the leaders, and follow the pack to whereever the front runners go. Right now, everyones yelling "FIRE!!! RUN FOR YOUR LIVES". And in turn, investors pull their money out of the banks, and stocks and securities, which the very act of, CAUSES those stocks, banks and securities to fail.

    Its not rocket science. If everyone starts freaking out, others freak out. Its built into us. Its what we do. So when people in blogs all across America, and in newspapers and on television all yell "RUN FOR YOUR LIVES!!! THE SKY IS FALLING!!!" then people run for their lives.

    Its human nature.

    But if people start saying, "hey... wait a minute... what happens if we DON'T scare everyone into pulling their money out? ... What if they left it in the banks and markets... what would happen then???"

    Well, then the markets would stabilize, and we'd be able to work CALMLY and STEADILY on strengthening the markets and driving the economy and moving forward, instead of just voluntarily jumping off the cliff.

    We need cool heads, and cool heads are not what we have right now.

  138. You guys just don't see it.

    You say stupid things like " a few bloggers won't change anything" as if thats what I'm suggesting, or diminishing my well laid out position to a stupid straw argument, calling it "happy thoughts".

    Well, the fact is I've spelled it out, and you don't address the facts. You just toss out talking points.

    Because the truth is you know I'm right.

    Here. Let me help you see that.

    Answer this one simple question.

    What happens to a bank when the depositors get scared and pull out their money?


    What happens to it?

  139. When you can answer that question, in 5 words or less, then you'll be on the path to wisdom.

    Instead of your current path, which is running off the cliff with the rest of the dumb animals.

  140. And I say dumb animals figuratively. I know you're not dumb animals. Its just a figure of speech for the analogy.

  141. JollyRoger said...

    The reason nobody's selling anything anymore is because all but the very top of the income ladder have seen their incomes stangate and/or decline at the same time that there have been huge price spikes in damn near EVERYTHING.

    No its not.

    The reason things aren't selling is because CREDIT is drying up, as Alan Greenspan said last week.

    And as Barack Obama just pointed out in the debate, not 2 minutes ago.

  142. The auto dealers are going bankrupt, because autoloan financing is drying up.

    But more importantly, the mortgage industry is not lending right now, except under the most STRINGENT of conditions, which means MOST loans are NOT being written, which means homes are not selling.

    People still have money. I still have money. Lots of people have money. But they don't have loans for big ticket items, like cars and houses. So, when those things stop selling, MILLIONS AND MILLIONS of jobs are lost, and THAT my friend, is what spirals an economy into the dust.

    We have to encourage lending for big ticket items like cars and homes, which means helping lending institutions to lend again.

    We need to drop the penal mentality of trying to get revenge on people UNTIL we get things stabilized.

  143. As Barack Obama said tonight, we need to stimulate LENDING.

    Because until we do, NOTHING will move.

  144. McCain on the other hand, is babbling about energy policies as the answer to the financial crisis which of course it wouldn't hurt, but would not directly address the problem.

    He also said he didn't want to raise ANY taxes, which of course is foolishness.

    Not raising taxes on the top tax bracket after the crash of 29 above the flat 25 percent tax Coolidge had installed was what caused the great depression to continue. The wealthy rode it out, and many retained their wealth, but didn't pay a fair share of the load and the country suffered.

    Raising taxes on the upper income bracket IS Obama' plan, and thats why he is the only one on that stage with a plan.

    McCain has nothing.

  145. Obama just asserted himself quite nicely. I liked that. Hes not doing too badly tonight.

    He cut off kommandant Browkaw who is stifling this debate with his "stick to the rules" crap.

    We've got two brawlers here that want to slug it out. Browkaw needs to just shut up and get out of the way and let them have at it.

  146. Holy crap thats what just happened. Browkaw stepped back when Obama stepped up and Obama just CLUBBED McCain with the bom bom bom Iran song.

  147. No its not.

    The reason things aren't selling is because CREDIT is drying up, as Alan Greenspan said last week.

    And as Barack Obama just pointed out in the debate, not 2 minutes ago.

    That's funny-I heard him refer to the stagnation of incomes while prices for everything shot through the ceiling.

    Sorry, this time you're just plain wrong. Until the slide in American income stops, there will be no meaningful recovery. Fatcat CEOs can't spend enough to keep the economy afloat, and most of us wouldn't take on new debt now if we COULD get it.

  148. McCain didn't decidedly win,

    so given his position going in .....

    HE LOST.

  149. The THAT ONE comment made McCain look grumpy, which didn't help him with the people he needed to change their minds.

  150. CBS Poll: Uncommitted Voters Say Obama Won Debate

    39% Obama,

    27% McCain,

    35% draw,

    Which means McCain failed in his mission tonight.

  151. Jolly Roger said...

    That's funny-I heard him refer to the stagnation of incomes while prices for everything shot through the ceiling.

    Sorry, this time you're just plain wrong.

    Well when the transcript comes out later I'll show you how your hearing apparently didn't hear correctly. Because he said credit dried up. And of course he talked about high prices, but he talked about credit and the inability to lend money "freezing" the econmy.

    And the analysts out there says your wrong, the problem is the housing market stalling, which has snowballed into the current crisis.

  152. CNN 54% Obama 30% McCain

    The CNN poll's internal, showing that Obama is seen as better on Iraq by 51%-47%, McCain has a 51%-46% edge on terrorism -- a subject where he's usually done much better than this -- and Obama wins 59%-37% on the economy. On the current financial crisis, Obama wins 57%-36%, Obama is seen as the stronger leader 54%-43%, and is more likable 65%-28%

    Stick a fork in the McCain campaign, it's over.

  153. Fatcat CEOs can't spend enough to keep the economy afloat, and most of us wouldn't take on new debt now if we COULD get it.

    Statements like this show how well the fearmongers have done their job. This is thoroughly uninformed statement and says nothing, other than "its the fat cats fault".

    This has nothing to do with FAT CATS spending money. It has to do with HOME SALES. Greenspans been warnign for YEARS that the housing market was propping up the economy. So were all the finanical analysts. Real estate investors working in a thriving market were the reason Home Depot came into existence. The home sales which invariably translates into remodling and home improvement were the driving force behind our economy. So many first time buyers were able to buy homes as well, which likewise meant more remodles, etc. This translates into millions and millions of jobs nationwide, from everything from plumbers to manufacturing plants to cashiers and helpers at the new big mega super stores selling home building and improvement products.

    Aluminum siding, roofing, flooring, appliance sales, all driven by the housing market.

    Realtors, mortgage underwriters, title firms, appraisal firms, all propped up by the booming housing market.

    Literally MILLIONS of jobs either reduced in salary or lost altogether. Parking lots have sprung up in Califronia to let single moms working in the mortgage industry who are now unemployed, have a place to park their mini vans. Kind of a poor mans trailer park.

    You don't see it because you have "an axe to grind", as does clif, and others. You don't want to see the truth, and that is its people like you, making this crisis what it is. Other people started this crisis, but its you panicing doom and gloom fearmongerers who are helping to fuel this crisis, because you won't see where the problem is.

    You would cut off your nose, to spite your face. You'd cripple the lending industry, like the democrats already did in October last year, which in turn cripples our entire economy.

    It sucks losing 100,000 dollars. I know. I did. Because people like you want things to fail. You will them to fail. And you refuse to have a little faith.

  154. Always with them negative waves, Moriarty.

    Why don't you dig how beautiful it is out here?

    Why don't you say something righteous,.. and hopeful for a change?

    Kelly's Heroes

  155. I'm not putting you down, I'm putting what you and others are doing down, so don't take this personal. If you watched Jon Stewart tonight you'd have seen his guest parrot my sentiments, about not PANICING.

    She said she'd gotten so shaken by the crisis that she turned to reading FDR's old "FIRESIDE CHATS", that he did back during the great depression. When Stewart asked her what they said she said what she took away was "Don't PANIC".

    So don't panic. And don't SPREAD panic.

    Lydia's right on this one. Its not "happy thoughts", its being steady, and not letting fear itself fulfill our fears.

  156. Man oh Man did McCain fuck up his supposed best chance.

    Not only did McCain screw up with the "That One" comment, he even insulted the intelligence of one of the audience members "You probably didnt even know who Freddie Mac and Frannie Mae were before this week"

    The constant pacing brought back memories of Gore's pacing during the Bush-Gore debate. And all he managed to do was repeat back pretty much verbatim what he said during the first debate.

    "Thank you for asking that question -- Im not going to bother answering it though. I know how to do this. I have experience, my friends. My friends, I cant be bothered with your questions because they dont match my ... sorry, have to bring up Ronald Reagan at least once ... canned responses. My friends. I have experience. Well heck, I didnt mention I was in prison. Oh wait -- Ronald Regaan."

  157. Intrade agrees with me;

    Barack Obama to win 2008 US Presidential Election

    Last Price: 72.5 up 3.4

    His highest level ever.

    Hint: any candidate who gets over 70 on intrade usually wins.

  158. I wonder NOW if McCain wants MORE town hall meetings after his dismal showing tonight?

    His grumpy old man routine don't play well with Obama on the stage.

  159. Anyway, in the words of Forrest Gump, "thats all I have to say about that".

    Clif, you're right. Everyones calling that one for Obama. In fact, they're mentioning that old one two Obama gave McCain on the bombombom Iran song and Invading North Korea. McCain thought he was going to get slick, and Obama saw him moving up on the stage, and he said "thank you" to Obama, who then just unloaded. It was the first real full release I've seen out of Obama, and it was sweet. If Obama can do that some more, this things over.

  160. Sad as it is, I think Palin did better in her debate than McCain has done in his.

    Think he'll send her in for the last one?

  161. McCains showing him Zero respect. Zero. He's being ignorant, calling him "that one", so its time for Obama to take off the gloves. On this third and final debate, Obama needs to not come out mean, but be ready to toss those combination shots, and just knock him out.

    McCain was visibly reeling when Obama did that tonight. He didn't see it coming, and it was like a Gregory Peck moment for Obama. He was being very polite to Mr McCain, and when McCain started coming across the stage when Obama was talking, and interupted him, Obama just knocked him right back in his place.

  162. bart,

    Obama has already knocked McCain out,

    by seeming presidential

    in front of 65 million viewers ...

    next to a grumpy old man.

  163. PINOCCHIO POLITICS new blog post is up.
    thank you for leaving comments in new thread.