Saturday, September 06, 2008

How My 7-Year-Old Learned About Pre-Marital Sex from John McCain


Young woman at RNC: "If Sarah Palin believed more in sex education and teaching more than just abstinence-only, it might have been a better choice for her,” she said. “If people aren’t educated about what their options are, where does that leave them?”

But the hypocrisy of so-called Conservatives in touting this circumstance as proof of family values, of conservative values, really roils me. The AP recently reported that John McCain not only has opposed federal spending on teen-prevention programs, he has also voted to oppose education and federal spending on contraceptives. Palin's own record shows the same at the state level. The idea that once a teenager, deprived of an education which teaches contraception, finds herself pregnant...


How My 7-Year-Old Learned About Pre-Marital Sex from John McCain
By Karen Dolan, AlterNet September 3, 2008.

I wholly believe in educating my child about contraception. But given that he is 7, I could have waited a few years for that particular talk.

Ok, yes, you can credit or fault me as a mother for allowing my 7- year-old to suffer under the blissful ignorance of believing that one needs to be married before one gets pregnant. Or you can credit or fault me for answering my child's matter-of-fact questions about how babies are made even though he is only 7. But all credit and fault goes to John McCain and Sarah Palin for exposing all children who have a TV to the news that Palin's unmarried teenage daughter is indeed 5 months pregnant.

Seeing this "Breaking News" on TV when trying to catch news of Gustav and the Republican Convention, my son immediately asks me "But how can she be pregnant if she isn't married?" and "Does a girl get pregnant every time she has sex with a boy?" Thus ensues the revelation that sex is possible before marriage, and how condoms and birth control pills can prevent pregnancy and HIV. I wholly believe in educating my child about contraception. But given that he is indeed 7, I could easily have waited another year or two for him to be older for that particular conversation. I sorta liked the sweet illusion of the "sex is for grown-ups in committed relationships" thing ... don't most parents of elementary-age children?

I don't judge the Palins for having a pregnant teen daughter. I do think that it reinforces the need for frank sex education and the distribution of condoms in middle and high schools. I do think that the "Breaking News" of this unfortunate pregnancy points to the need of options for teens beyond the highly un-contraceptive "promise ring" that is the rage with certain Christian families these days, promising God the purity of their children until after that ring is replaced with a wedding ring. But I don't judge the child or her parents for the current situation, all too familiar to many families nation-wide. Each year a million girls under the age of 20 become pregnant in the U.S.

But the hypocrisy of so-called Conservatives in touting this circumstance as proof of family values, of conservative values, really roils me. The AP recently reported that John McCain not only has opposed federal spending on teen-prevention programs, he has also voted to oppose education and federal spending on contraceptives. Palin's own record shows the same at the state level. The idea that once a teenager, deprived of an education which teaches contraception, finds herself pregnant, is then expected to allow the embryo to come to term, to then either give it away or marry the father regardless of who, what or how he is doesn't rank among my values. To celebrate such practices as values to which we all should aspire, strikes me as worse than Palin's corruption charges and her petition to sue the government in order to keep polar bears off of the endangered species list.

How many times have we heard the likes of Rush Limbaugh or Bill O'Reilly decrying the flash of a bra-strap from 15-year-old Mylie Cyrus or the danger that sex education in Middle School will expose our children to too much information about sex too young? Well, Senator McCain and Governor Palin, I just wanted you to know that this particular mother would have preferred to wait a bit before having to explain to my 7-year-old that a latex covering over a penis should be worn to keep the semen from fertilizing the egg during sex if teenagers, such as the one broadcast all over the news yesterday, decide to engage in such activity before being mature enough to actually parent a baby.

In a way though, McCain and Palin have done us all a favor as they now have removed the chastity belt which hampered honest discussion on sex education in schools and realistic, effective ways to prevent teen-pregnancy and STDs. Maybe my 7-year-old could have held on a bit longer to his innocent notions of Trojans simply as Greek Warriors; but the McCain/Palin ticket has only reinforced the idea that pre-pubescent children and teens here and around the globe deserve nothing less than a government-provided box of the wonderful little things, complete with classroom sex-education courses. Now we're talking values.
_____________________________

For the spiritual solution to every problem in life please check out our other blog: at The Peacemakers * The Light of Truth


Lydia Cornell on CSPAN's Book-TV

201 comments:

  1. Beautiful, absolutely beautiful stuff. You are truly doing noble work here :)

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  2. Thanks JR.

    Will -- John Hagee is a dangerous kind of "Christian" who wants to speed up war in the Middle East to bring on Armageddon so Christ comes back sooner, so only a flock of Christians are "left behind!"

    Positively lunatic! Let's pray Sarah Palin is not the same type of deranged, delusional, self-serving "Christian."

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  3. Lydia the lunatic fringe on the right, want wars and More wars, so they need LOTS of poor people to "volunteer" to fight their wars (since they are soooo gutless and become chicken hawks every time a war comes up).

    They want all those kids so they have the people needed to become cannon fodder in the perpetual war for profit they seem to revel in.

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  4. Very well written.

    I read that teen pregnancies rates are higher in "red" states where abstinence-only education is the rule and lower in "blue" states where teachers are actually allowed to teach children what they need to know.

    Or, to put it another way: Do you know what they call kids who are thaught that abstinence is the only true form of birth control? Parents.

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  5. ignore the typo -- it's late where I live

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  6. You know, it's rather stupid teaching abstinence-only anyway. The whole idea that waiting until you're married to have sex is fine but that doesnt mean when you get married, you immediately want to start having babies. The idea of education is to let teach kids what they will need to know as adults and that's something they will need to know.

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  7. Lydia,

    By all appearances, Palin subscribes to view just as radical, or perhaps even more radical, than Hagee's. Or she professes to, at the very least.

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  8. Will "take no prisoners" Hart said...
    The way I took Lydia's initial point was that she was discrediting Pentocostals in general. If Palin says stupid things, if her pastor says stupid things, then, fine, call 'em out. Most Pentocostals that I have known are peace-loving.


    Most Pentacostal churches teach war from the pulpit, regularly referring to the wars of the Israelites in their sermons, to justify modern day slaughter in similar fashion.

    The Assembly of God, in particular, who Sara Palin belongs to, is teaching the "arm of God" theory to its membership, and that is holy war and THAT is JIHAD.

    So the fact is you are wrong Will, in attacking Lydia for drawing attention to Sara Palins church doctrines as they are the antithesis of Christianity.

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  9. Will "take no prisoners" Hart said...
    The Catholic Church, Bartlebee, is a sexist organization. Is everybody who attends it a sexist?


    Everyone who attends who believes in the church is, to a degree. Of course.


    How could you accept the doctrine of a church that teaches their priesthood is just for men, without being a sexist?

    That is the definition of sexism.

    Making class distinctions based on gender. Males can hold the priesthood. Females can not.

    However, when you say Catholic, there are spinoffs calling themselves catholic who do ordain women, but they are not recognized by the vatican.

    So, like not saying "ALL CHRISTIANS" are preaching Jihad and instead pointing to the BRANCHES of Christianity teaching Jihad, we also would not say ALL Catholics are sexist, just those belonging to the Roman Catholic Church under Pope Benedict XVI. Spinoffs (not officially recognized as Catholic by the Vatican)ordain women, and thus those spinoffs calling themselves catholic, would not be.

    That is why I am specific. And the Assembly of God, same Church that pushed out John Ashcroft onto the world stage, with its "Speaking in Tongues" and "Holy Rolling" in the asiles, is preaching war to its membership and that is a doctrine that is antitheical to the doctrine taught by Christ.

    Thus, calling themselves Christian while teaching war, makes them laughable.

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  10. Not only do they preach war, they TEACH Creationism.

    IF Sara Palin is a good member of her church, then she believes that the earth was created 6000 years ago, in just 6 days, and that evolution is false.

    This is what she's teaching her kids, her congregations, and this makes her in no way fit to be president of the United States in a modern educated society.

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  11. I do have one question;


    Why wasn't McCain wearing a flag pin on Thursday night?

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  12. Sarah Palin quote for Will;

    "Pray for our military men and women who are striving to do what is right. Also, for this country, that our leaders, our national leaders, are sending [American soldiers] out on a task that is from God. That's what we have to make sure that we're praying for, that there is a plan and that that plan is God's plan."

    --June 8, 2008, Wasilla Assembly of God Church

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  13. I mean, I want to say "how dare they?!?". I honestly want to say "how dare they?".

    How dare they pick someone to lead this country of educated Americans who doesn't even believe in SCIENCE???

    How DARE they?

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  14. They picked Bush didn't they?

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  15. This Bible record of creation thus rules out the evolutionary philosophy which states that all forms of life have come into being by gradual, progressive evolution carried on by resident forces.

    It also rules out any evolutionary origin for the human race, since no theory of evolution, including theistic evolution, can explain the origin of the male before the female, nor can it explain how a man could evolve into a woman.



    Offical Doctrine, from the offical Council of the Assemblies of God.

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  16. The account of creation is intended to be taken as factual and historical.

    Offical Doctrine of the Assembly of God. (The Church Sara Palin not only belongs to, but preaches in)

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  17. The "holy rollers" have always been dangerous wack jobs. Let's review some of their more famous members.
    -Jim Jones
    -Jimmy Swaggart
    -Jim Bakker
    -Leroy Jenkins
    -Ted Haggard

    I long ago lost count of the number of Pentecostal ministers accused of perophilia, but I assure you that it is a measurable number of them. I remember reading where somewhere round 20% of their youth counselors had inappropriate contact with the uyouths entrusted to them as well.

    The holy rollers are bad news, period.

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  18. So I suggest, that the democrats get smart, and when Joe Biden meets her for debate, have him ask her,"do you, or do you not believe that the earth was created in 6 days?".


    When people realize she's a far right creationist lunatic, then they'll figure it out.

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  19. By the way Clif, I don't know where you got your info on the Heart song, but here is the offical statement released by the group, HEART, regarding the McCain camp and the RNC using it in their Convention this past week.

    The Republican campaign did not ask for permission to use the song, nor would they have been granted that permission. We have asked the Republican campaign publicly not to use our music. We hope our wishes will be honored.

    -HEART

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  20. Check this part out folks.

    The Republican campaign did not ask for permission to use the song, nor would they have been granted that permission


    :|

    NOR would they have been granted that permission.

    Thats some cold sh$t, lol.

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  21. We have asked the Republican campaign publicly not to use our music.

    HEART

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  22. Clif, he was just being ironic.

    The RNC did NOT have permission to use their music.

    In fact, HEART has already asked them to NOT use their music in public.

    They violated copyright and intellectual property laws by playing that publically without permision.

    And HEART officially told them to NOT play their music.

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  23. Bart they might not have royalty rights over their early music like the Beatles didn't when Micheal Jackson owned most of their catalog of music

    The people who OWN the rights to the music can sell the right to play it to anybody, and from the Yahoo news story it appears they might not own the rights ......

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  24. The significant story here is that they introduced Palin with the song BARRACUDA, without permission from the group.

    And not only did they not have permission, they are asked to not use it in public, lol.

    I mean, its perfect. Its a perfect note on the introduction of Palin.

    It shows either a complete disrespect of the law, or more likely, the complete and utter incompetence of the McCain people in not only NOT "vetting" their VP candidate, but by not even vetting the SONG they played, to introduce her.

    :|

    It boggles the mind.

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  25. clif said...

    Bart they might not have royalty rights over their early music like the Beatles didn't when Micheal Jackson owned most of their catalog of music

    The people who OWN the rights to the music can sell the right to play it to anybody, and from the Yahoo news story it appears they might not own the rights ......


    Well Clif, it sounds like the Yahoo story is wrong. Otherwise why would HEART issue that offical rebuke?

    Either way WHO CARES???

    The REAL Story here is HEART didn't want their song used, and they used it to introduce Palin.

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  26. The significant story here is that they introduced Palin with the song BARRACUDA, without permission from the group.

    And not only did they not have permission, they are asked to not use it in public, lol.

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  27. Palin is red meat for the Jesusistan wingtards that McCavein was afraid wouldn't come out and vote for him. She was "vetted" by everybody's favorite dope-addicted pedophile, Rush Limbaugh. And in the world Johnny travels in, that's vetting enough.

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  28. The Republican campaign did not ask for permission to use the song, nor would they have been granted that permission.

    We have asked the Republican campaign publicly not to use our music. We hope our wishes will be honored.

    -HEART

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  29. I cannot imagine the utter incomprehensible stupidity required of the Republicans to pick a theme song by HEART to introduce Sara Palin that HEART had asked them not to play.

    It shows their character or as in this case, their utter lack thereof.

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  30. And as for not violating copyright laws clif, whether or not they did in this case, that the SPIRIT of it is there is not in doubt.

    Nor is it in doubt, that they've done it before.

    The following list of recent offenses of copyright and intellectual property infringements was taken from ThinkProgress.

    In August, singer Jackson Browne sued the McCain campaign and the Ohio Republican Party for copyright infringement because his song “Running on Empty” was used in an ad by the state party. Browne’s lawyers said that “McCain and his campaign were well aware of” this fact.

    – In August, the McCain campaign re-cut a web ad after comedian Mike Myers’s publicist complained about the use of footage of Myers and fellow Saturday Night Live alum Dana Carvey’s “Wayne’s World” characters.

    – In July, the McCain campaign had to pull and re-cut a web ad after Frankie Valli’s record label, the Warner Music Group, asserted its copyright claims over the use of the song “Can’t Take My Eyes Off Of You.”

    – Earlier this year, the copyright owners for the “Rocky” theme song “telephoned the McCain campaign to politely complain it was being used without permission.”

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  31. Seems like the McCain camp just doesn't respect the intellectual property laws that its promised to protect.

    If they violate them themselves, how can they be trusted to protect them for others?

    For that matter, what does it say about their character, or managerial skills? Don't they vet these songs? Don't they have smart staff to take care of that stuff?

    What is up with that?

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  32. McCavein's campaign is simply doing as their actual owner, Limbaugh, himself does.

    For years he used riffs from The Pretenders' "My city Was Gone" without their permission. Chrissie Hynde was not amused in the least.

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  33. Bart, I wasn't saying McCain was using it with out the objections of the members of Heart, just that his campaign might have found a way to legally use it.

    Which shows they don't care what people think just what they want as usual.

    They show the normal right wing mentality they have the right to do or say as they please, even if they distort other people's words in the process.

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  34. The right wing has NEVER respected any thing or any body but their own wishes.

    They cry the loudest about any slight, but are the biggest offenders in reality.

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  35. BTW while the right wing was praying to St Sarah to save them, and the MSM was stumbling around all a glitter that the election just might be news worthy, ie produce ratings,

    George W Bush approved that Fannie and Freddie will be taken under a conservatorship -- which is similar to a bankruptcy wherein a trustee operates the company so it can be fixed and ultimately sold back to public investors.

    In the spring congress approved $800 BILLION to do this, which means they are using YOUR money to bail out Wall street again just like they did with Bear Stearns,

    Who is one of the big owners that just might get bailed out?

    China owns $340 billion of Fannie and Freddie mortgage-backed securities

    I wonder if we are gonna say loan us the money then pay yourselves?


    More of the Right wing republican privative all the profits and socialize the costs to the taxpayers.

    Off course they did this late Friday night while everyone was being diverted by St Sarah and her MSM glittery tour of lies and spin.

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  36. The right wing has NEVER respected any thing or any body but their own wishes.

    They cry the loudest about any slight, but are the biggest offenders in reality.


    The tactic is known as "projection," and they are masters at it. They have successfully projected their wasteful spending, corruption, and myriad perversions onto the left. It is way past time that we re-affixed their proclivities right back on those to who the proclivities belong.

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  37. BTW, Bank Tied To John McCain's Son Goes Under

    Shades of Neil Bush and Silverado Savings and Loan in that one.

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  38. I had a bit to say about Fannie and Freddie this evening, clif.

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  39. The [Libs] criticized Palin, saying it's irresponsible for a woman with five children to run for vice president. Liberals' new talking point: Sarah Palin: Only five abortions away from the presidency.

    They claimed her newborn wasn't her child, but the child of her 17-year-old daughter. That turned out to be a lie.

    Then they attacked her daughter, who actually is pregnant now, for being unmarried. When liberals start acting like they're opposed to pre-marital sex and mothers having careers, you know McCain's vice presidential choice has knocked them back on their heels.

    But at least liberal reporters had finally found someone their own size to pick on: a 17-year-old girl.

    Speaking of Democrats with newborn children, the media weren't particularly concerned about John Edwards running for president despite his having a mistress with a newborn child.

    -Ann Coulter

    Another reason why Ann rahawks! Can't wait for her next book to come out!

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  40. Isn't it amazing this rube thinks Ann Coulter is a credible source to be quoting on anything?

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  41. Freedom Surrender said...

    Can't wait for her next book to come out!

    Neither can I.

    I'm running out of toilet paper.

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  42. "Well, Senator McCain and Governor Palin, I just wanted you to know that this particular mother would have preferred to wait a bit before having to explain to my 7-year-old that a latex covering over a penis should be worn to keep the semen from fertilizing the egg during sex if teenagers, such as the one broadcast all over the news yesterday, decide to engage in such activity before being mature enough to actually parent a baby."

    Wow!, I hope this woman never provides her son with a sister or brother, she may decide she has to give him personal instruction in the sex act itself...

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  43. Fascist Franny probably didn't hear the Palin quote I heard the other day, but then Fascist Franny can't hear. That's been proven many times over.

    Someone, I don't remember who, said that Palin was like Ann Coulter, but in a woman's body.

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  44. Wow!, I hope this woman never provides her son with a sister or brother, she may decide she has to give him personal instruction in the sex act itself.

    Now now.... we know projection when we see it.

    Believe me, when we see wingtards like you argue that up is down and day is night, we KNOW who's been taking those "family values" to a whole new level.

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  45. So Sarah Palin is a mean-spirited vengeful church lady who haughtily dismisses community organizers.

    As long as they like the comparison, here’s a great comeback for all those Sarah McChurchlady fans out there.

    Jesus was a community organizer.

    Pontius Pilate was a governor.

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  46. Bartlebee, Clif, I think if you went into any church with a camcorder, you could find idiotic dogma coming out of the mouth of the minister/priest. Hell, even when I was a kid/teenager, my Episcopal priest used to say stuff that made me frigging cringe (part of the reason I became an agnostic). Look, I personally think that all organized religion has a divisive element (there are positive social aspects as well, especially in a more homogenious society but, for me, the "leap" is too absurd) to them. I just think we have to be careful 1)in singling out a specific religion and 2)overgeneralizing within these religions. Like I said, I've know Pentacostals who didn't believe in war. And what about the Catholics who DON'T "leave", is it fair to call them sexist, especially if they aren't sexist in other spheres of their lives? I'm trying to be "liberal" here. Later.

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  47. Bah, I suspect I know the REAL reason Palin was chosen for running mate. She's a replacement for Annthrax Coulter.

    Now in the interest of propriety and genuine respect for our lovely hostess Lydia, I will stop it there but for those who are curious, Im referring to Kathy Griffin's stand up routine where she talks about Coulter.

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  48. Oh, and for the record, Bartlebee, Mitt Romney's father George (former Governor of Michigan, briefly ran for President in '68), also a Mormon, had one of the best civil rights records of the '60s. I think it was unfair to say that ALL pre-1970 Mormons were racists

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  49. All organized religion is a divisive element, this is true. But the holy rollers, by their dogmas, cannot be loyal to the Constitution of the United States.

    It is not only all right to challenge any of them who hold public office, it should be required.

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  50. And what about the military. They discriminate against homosexuals. Does that mean that everybody who goes in the service is anti-gay? Of course, it doesn't....While maybe Mrs. Palin has deriven X,Y,and Z out of her faith, other people may go to that church for other reasons. Look, I have troubles with Palin's absolutist views on abortion, her skepticism on evolution, her support for abstinence only sex education. I think that I'm astute enough to confront her on these issues without ending with, "Oh, and, by the way, you're religion - it stinks!!."

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  51. Challenge them all you want. Don't stereotype, though. That's how we get into trouble

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  52. How about you stop lying about people "stereotyping" will?

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  53. Will "take no prisoners" Hart said...

    Oh, and for the record, Bartlebee, Mitt Romney's father George (former Governor of Michigan, briefly ran for President in '68), also a Mormon, had one of the best civil rights records of the '60s. I think it was unfair to say that ALL pre-1970 Mormons were racists


    Oh bullshit. The guy belonged to a church that taught that Blacks were the seed of Cain, and were inelegible for holding any sort of office or priesthood in their church, based on their skin color.

    Regardless of what sort of work he did condescendingly for the black community he still belonged by choice, to a church that taught blacks were inferior to whites.

    Thomas Jefferson liked sex with Black chicks, but he still owned slaves.

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  54. Will "take no prisoners" Hart said...
    And what about the military. They discriminate against homosexuals. Does that mean that everybody who goes in the service is anti-gay?


    The military is an institution, not a belief system, Cicero.

    The analogy has no bearing.

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  55. Will said...

    Like I said, I've know Pentacostals who didn't believe in war.

    Oh quit with your simple minded straw arguments.

    I say "Assembly of God", and then you crawl in and change it to the much broader "Pentacostals".

    I will be happy to debate Pentacostals as a whole, but when I say ASSEMBLY OF GOD, and YOU CHANGE THAT to "PENTACOSTALS", you show yourself to be a liar who relies on straw men to sell his side.

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  56. Dave Dubya said...
    So Sarah Palin is a mean-spirited vengeful church lady who haughtily dismisses community organizers.

    As long as they like the comparison, here’s a great comeback for all those Sarah McChurchlady fans out there.

    Jesus was a community organizer.

    Pontius Pilate was a governor.


    Hey, thats pretty good.

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  57. The [Libs] criticized Palin, saying it's irresponsible for a woman with five children to run for vice president. Liberals' new talking point: Sarah Palin: Only five abortions away from the presidency.

    Another out right LIE from the person who CHOSE college over service in the active Army during the Vietnam War ...... but defending the ROTC parade ground was sorta like ,Georgie's defending the Gulf of Mexico instead of the Gulf of Tonkin from the North Vietnamese

    NOBODY has said that fraud, but you keep spreading your delusional lies, you did SOOOOO well last time you did foole, remember?

    They claimed her newborn wasn't her child, but the child of her 17-year-old daughter. That turned out to be a lie.

    Oh right a few people say something and YOU try top paint everyone with the same brush,

    Remember the FALSE Generalization petard you hung yourself with last time son?

    Then they attacked her daughter, who actually is pregnant now, for being unmarried.

    NOBODY attacked her, as far as I know nobody even tried. Some people did point out the hypocrisy of her being 17, unmarried and pregnant and her mothers EXTREME position on teaching sex ed and her mothers CUTTING the budget to help young girls in her daughters exact condition.

    When liberals start acting like they're opposed to pre-marital sex and mothers having careers, you know McCain's vice presidential choice has knocked them back on their heels.

    Right son dream on, and drink a little more of that right wing kool aid, you clowns think she is gonna make the American people forget the last 7 3/4 years and HOW close McSame associated himself with Georgie to win the extreme right wing losers like YOU.

    Remember BOZO the American's are voting for McSame or is it Mcbush, not her at the top of the ticket.


    But at least liberal reporters had finally found someone their own size to pick on: a 17-year-old girl.

    Feel better now that you maligned people who out class you daily son?

    You HATE the press because they finally started reporting the TRUTH in 2005-06.

    But you have ALWAYS hated the truth son, your all about false generalizations, spin and straw man arguments.

    Speaking of Democrats with newborn children, the media weren't particularly concerned about John Edwards running for president despite his having a mistress with a newborn child.

    Right because John Edwards came in third?


    -Ann Coulter

    Oh lookie the mighty foole has fallen So far he is using her spittle to make his points now a days.

    Until I read HER name thought the foole was just writing another of his delusional factually challenged diatribe, but he has sunk so far he has to just copy hers.

    Another reason why Ann rahawks! Can't wait for her next book to come out!

    Is "rawaks" some right wing code for REEKS, cause she definitely reeks in both thought and ideology son, right along with your delusional rectal-cranial condition son.

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  58. And what about the military. They discriminate against homosexuals. Does that mean that everybody who goes in the service is anti-gay?

    What do YOU have against people who serve in uniform will?

    On your blog YOU personally attack veterans .... and encourage others who do so also.

    And here you slander the entire US Military and all it's people with HATE filled statements like that,

    Why do YOU hate the military will?

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  59. I think we should change wills name to "strawdog", given he relies on so many straw arguments to sell his so called "moderate" positions.

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  60. What are the wing nuts AFRAID OF:

    Not Training Wheels We Can Believe In

    There's a lot of complaining that the McCain campaign won't allow anyone to interview Sarah Palin. And for the major news outlets that would be in line for such an interview there's a logic to keeping up the drumbeat. But McCain campaign manager Rick Davis is right: It's their campaign to run. They can do it how they want. Everyone else should just shut up, stop complaining and call the reality for what it is.

    Davis says Palin won't give any interviews until she feels "comfortable" giving one. And this morning he added that she wouldn't give any "until the point in time when she'll be treated with respect and deference."

    Sarah Palin could be the President of the United States in four and a half months. We tend to think of this as an abstraction; but it's true. And yet today she's so unprepared and knows so little about the challenges and tasks facing the country that she can't even give a softball interview.

    That's really all we need to know. Yes, she's off being prepped at some undisclosed location. And I've little doubt that by the time her debate rolls around she'll be sufficiently pumped full of slogans and bromides to make a show of it. But now, this moment, is the one that tells us all we need to know.

    As is so often the case, Palin is the incarnation of the Republican slurs. The darling of the hard-right; she gives stem-winding speeches. She pushes all their buttons. But she's such a lightweight, they can't risk letting her answer a few questions. Not even on Fox. They know she's not ready and probably never will be. But they think the politics might work for them.


    What are the right wingers AFRAID OF?

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  61. Rick Davis - War against the media.

    "He left the Reagan White House to work with longtime lobbyist Paul Manafort, in founding the lobbying firm Davis, Manafort. In their political work, Davis served as Manafort's deputy in orchestrating the 1996 Republican National Convention; both would later join Dole's presidential team. While working for Dole, Davis told a reporter that he was "blown away" by McCain's unconventional politics, and joined McCain's first election bid in 1999.

    When McCain started the Reform Institute in 2001 to promote campaign finance reform, he turned to Davis. Davis would earn $395,000 in salary and consulting fees from the Institute, which he headed from 2003 to 2005.

    In 2006, Davis helped plan McCain's next White House run, envisioning a corporate-style campaign modeled after President Bush's 2004 bid." Wiki

    According to this Wiki, Rick Davis lives here in Alexandria. He looks vaguely familiar, but, I don't believe I have had the pleasure...

    I hadn't paid a lot of attention to Davis until I saw his reaction to rather tame questioning from Joe Scarborough and Mika (Zbig's daughter) in St. Paul. Wow! He told the two of them and all others present that the GOP has accepted the idea that the media are deeply unfair to their candidates and that the McCain campaign would make Palin available for interview when AND IF it chooses to do so. He was quite hostile in the way he said this, bristling and interrupting constantly, speaking louder and louder to drown out voices he did not want to acknowledge. It was quite a performance. It was basically a declaration of war against the 4th Estate in all its manifestations.

    This morning I listened to him on Fox News Sunday. To my surprise he was just as hostile and aggressive with the host (Chris Wallace) as he had been with the poor schmucks from MSNBC. When a right wing party apparatchik like this man has become tries to shout down the host of a right wing Sunday network news show like FNS, then something interesting is happening. A great many citizens who will vote for McCain/Palin were watching this attack on Fox News. What must they have thought? Fox News is the source of "news" for McCain's base. Wallace had just finished administering a thorough verbal "thrashing" to Axelrod, Davis' opposite number in the Obama camp. In spite of this, Davis' habitual scowl was the first thing one saw when Wallace began his interview. It went downhill from the scowl.

    The Republicans are running against the press, including the Murdoch Press? If so, this something new to American politics.

    Are they going to succeed in putting McCain in the White House as a kind of interim figure using this approach? pl


    This is their campaign strategy?

    Attacking the people who they need to get their message out to the millions of independent voters who will decide this election?

    Saying one of their candidates CAN'T stand up to Wolf Blitzer, Chris Matthews or even the clowns at fox noise?

    She can't take it cause they MIGHT be mean to her.

    This is how they want to portray the person they claim can step in and take on Putin?

    This is the person they want to claim is TOUGH enough to go after bin Forgotten since Georgie FAILED so miserably at it?

    Yea right.

    ReplyDelete
  62. BTW do you want to know what Sarah Palin thinks about Eskimos?

    She calls them Arctic Arabs ......

    ReplyDelete
  63. I guess she is really John McCain's soul mate,

    He STILL calls Vietnamese gooks, EVEN the ones who were on OUR side.

    ReplyDelete
  64. Will "take no prisoners" Hart said...
    Challenge them all you want. Don't stereotype, though. That's how we get into trouble................"


    You LOSERS seem to have no frickin problem stereotypin me and Lydia LOSER.

    ReplyDelete
  65. I know its a kinda early for frickin Halloween, but i put on my Sara Palin costume and I just might frickin keep it on till she comes outta hidin and faces the frickin media.

    Whats little Sara the twit afraid of?

    ReplyDelete
  66. Right wingers are like cockroaches. The fear the light of day.

    The truth has always frightened them.

    The only "truth" they see is in the slogans of their authoritarian leaders. Their Rovian manufactured version of reality is all they need.

    ReplyDelete
  67. Sara are those pictures you use of you?

    ReplyDelete
  68. Hell yeah, they're images of me, cant you tell?

    ReplyDelete
  69. I am sick of the hypocrisy coming out of the Reich Wing. They condemned Lynn Spears because her teenager got pregnant. Then it was the fault of the mother. Now that it's Palin, it's a different story all together. When they were attack Hillary on every issue they could find, that was just fine. But if you attack Palin, you're being unfair and sexist.

    And just how ready is Palin to be VP anyway? She is so prepared, they won't let the press question her.

    I hope this backfires on them and the MSM goes after her for refusing to talk with them.

    ReplyDelete
  70. sara said...
    Hell yeah, they're images of me, cant you tell?


    How could I tell? I don't know anything about you.

    So are you being factitious or are you serious?

    Are they you or not?

    ReplyDelete
  71. Uhh, i thought I was being serious, yeah, they're all me, you makin fun of me or somthin Barty?

    ReplyDelete
  72. No, salvitating is more like it.

    ReplyDelete
  73. Well, putting on my male-chauvinist-oink hat for just a moment ... Damn, Sara, you're hot!

    And believe me when I tell you I'd much rather look at your and Lydia's legs than Annthrax Coulter's any day of the week.

    ReplyDelete
  74. Well Thanks Barty, i stay in good shape, i teach aerobics and dance, in fact not only do i frickin teach dance i love all kinds of dance and go to clubs to dance as much as possible, i even dabble in the martial arts a little.

    ReplyDelete
  75. Well thanks mch, you and clif are real frickin progressive liberals, and earned my respect.

    Hell I'm warming up to Barty after the last 2 frickin threads, you guys are saying some good stuff that like really needs to be said, a little too much frickin religion for my tastes but good stuff none the less.

    ReplyDelete
  76. I just heard on another frickin blog that Sara Palin may come outta hidin to do an interview with Gibson, i'll like believe that when i see it, i think that frickin airhead is bein managed by its handlers.

    ReplyDelete
  77. Oh, she'll speak to Gibson alright ... and will be plenty prepared to handle the pre-written questions that will be handed to him prior to the interview

    ReplyDelete
  78. As for Bart -- let me say for the record that I like him. We've had some disagreements that dont need to be dredged up, but there is no doubting his unrelenting passion for progressive issues.

    ReplyDelete
  79. sara said...

    Well Thanks Barty, i stay in good shape,


    Pristine is more like it.

    ReplyDelete
  80. sara said...


    Hell I'm warming up to Barty


    Yea...I'm starting to ...er..uh...heat up a bit.. myself.

    ReplyDelete
  81. MCH said...
    Oh, she'll speak to Gibson alright ... and will be plenty prepared to handle the pre-written questions that will be handed to him prior to the interview..............."


    Well, she can like try to hide from the tough frickin questions all she wants, eventually she's gonna get asked her views on the war, and people are gonna see her deranged goon policies are opposed to 80% of frickin America.


    Same for creationism and that abortion of a frickin religion she clings to most normal people dont believe the world was created in 6 frickin days, nor do they want that crap taught in schools.

    ReplyDelete
  82. The real tragedy here folks, with Palins creationism, is that its not a matter of "belief".

    We know the events that took place post Planck Epoch, and we know what took place over the billions of years as the earth formed and took shape, was subsequently slammed by Orpheus, spinning off our moon, etc.

    The earth is 4.5 billion years old.

    Its not a "belief", its just observing the data thats there.

    Anyone believing it is 6000 years old, and was created in 6 days, is welcome to "believe" that, but they belong no where NEAR our government.

    ReplyDelete
  83. Tell you what -- I am practically salivating in anticipation of the debate between Biden and Palin. He's going to leave her choking in the dust and you just know the ratings are going to be record-setters.

    ReplyDelete
  84. And thats not a form of religious discrimination either, WILL.

    Its a form of "stupidity" discrimination.

    Its discriminating against stupid or mentally challenged people, from holding offices where they get to tell the rest of the thinking America, what to do.

    I don't want some chowderhead who believes the earth is 6000 years old making decisions for me in my life! They have no right making decisions for me when they are lost in a sea of silly childish superstition.

    Peoples faith is fine, but if that faith teaches them that 2+2 equals 47, then they have no business in leading the rest of us.

    ReplyDelete
  85. Yea MCH, Biden is her better by about a millionfold.

    He's a good, Irish American Senator with a ton of experience and a sharp mind.

    He just needs to work on being "smug", and forget about trying to "look" angry.

    If I were him, the first question I'd ask her is do you believe the earth is 6000 years old.

    If she says no, then she's denying her church, which is fine, but I just want her on the record.

    If she says YES however, then she has just exposed herself to be too mentally unfit for the office of Vice President.

    ReplyDelete
  86. BARTLEBEE said...Anyone believing it is 6000 years old, and was created in 6 days, is welcome to "believe" that, but they belong no where NEAR our government..............."


    Hell yeah dude, these are prolly the same type a frickin goons that insisted the world was flat and killed anyone who frickin disagreed with em, and those kinda wack job goons scare me, and givin em the keys to the frickin palace is deranged and ignorant.

    ReplyDelete
  87. You frickin nailed it Barty, Biden needs to ask Sara Palin several questions, cause you know she will prolly get pitched softballs and get to frickin rehearse her answers with frickin Rove.

    ReplyDelete
  88. Actually the Obama-McCain debates will be fun too ... you just know McCain is going to lose his temper at some point

    ReplyDelete
  89. Sara, where was this picture of you taken, and who took it?

    ReplyDelete
  90. MCH said...

    Actually the Obama-McCain debates will be fun too ... you just know McCain is going to lose his temper at some point


    McCain's slipping into senility.

    Age onset Dementia is clear, and if Obama's smart, he'll ask him questions, and challenge him with facts and figures.

    McCain can't remember what day it is, much less anything specific on a global scale.

    If Obama just shows the world what a fresh, keen mind can do, people will vote for him.

    ReplyDelete
  91. Obama said something the other day that is something he needs to stay on message on.

    He said "THEY MUST THINK YOU'RE STUPID!".

    And THATS what the Obama people need to make this election about.


    SMART vs STUPID.

    ReplyDelete
  92. Thats like one of the places where i work, and occasionally blog from, why all the questions.

    ReplyDelete
  93. This comment has been removed by the author.

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  94. What really turned me off against Palin was, during her acceptance speech, she looked in the camera and said to the parents of special needs kids, "You'll have a friend, an advocate in the White House."

    As governor of Alaska BEFORE she had Trig, she slashed funding for programs for special needs kids. Of coure, now that she has a special needs kid of her own she's singing a different tune. As a parent of two special needs kids, I was highly offended by her sheer hypocracy. Typical redumblican, she only cares about something if it specifically affects her.

    ReplyDelete
  95. BARTLEBEE said...
    Obama said something the other day that is something he needs to stay on message on.

    He said "THEY MUST THINK YOU'RE STUPID!".

    And THATS what the Obama people need to make this election about.


    SMART vs STUPID....................."


    Thats like the best quote i've heard.

    That should be the message of the campaign

    ReplyDelete
  96. McCain is a nice enough sort of guy, when hes not running for something.

    But he's made it clear he's none too bright on the things a President needs to be bright on.

    Obama is young, smart, well educated, and that is a striking contrast to McCain.

    The Obama camp needs to focus on those differences, because the McCain camp is going to be focused on experience vs green Senator.

    McCains got lots of experience. Problem is, he doesn't have the smarts. And if he hasn't developed them by now, he's never going to.

    McCain is 72, and he's an OLD 72.

    Obama is ready to lead.

    McCain is ready to retire.

    ReplyDelete
  97. sara said...
    Thats like one of the places where i work, and occasionally blog from, why all the questions.


    Just being nosy. I noticed the chalkboard, thats all. Wondered where it was.

    ReplyDelete
  98. This is my fellow citizens the decision making abilities of the woman who claims she cares about her children that McInsane wants as his #2


    Here is Sarah Palin's decision thought process on the day of Trigs birth;

    Your a 44 year old Alaskan woman in Texas at a conference. Your 7 1/2 months pregnant, your baby has downs syndrome, and your water broke which is an indication of a premature birth;

    Do you.

    A Go straight to a hospital or

    B Give your speech anyway because politics is more important then the health of your baby anyway.

    Well she chose B

    Then when your speech is done do you a go to the hospital NOW that baby is a commin' .....

    It just might need medical attention cause it has like downs syndrome, or

    B go to the airport and get on a plane for Seattle, cause your wanting to have it in Alaska whether the baby likes it or not.

    Well she chose B AGAIN.

    So she went to the airport waited to go thru security
    , boarded the plane for the FOUR and a HALF hour flight.

    Because that damned baby is gonna be born in Alaska come hell or high water. (Even if hers already broke).

    Once in Seattle HOURS after her water broke does

    A, she Go to a Hospital or

    B, wait in the airport for the flight to Alaska?

    Well she freaking chose B again what kind of dizz is she,

    Anyway the flight between Seattle and Anchorage is just THREE freakin' more hours .... that damn kid can JUST wait,

    Sarah has her plans and NO childbirth is gonna interrupt those plans.

    Finally the dizz is IN Alaska, thank GOD now she can GO to the freakin Hospital to have the baby with downs syndrome Right,

    After all Anchorage has good hospitals AND it's in freakin Alaska not some foreign state or somethin' ...

    It's has only BEEN 13 freakin hours since your god damned water broke woman what in the hell are ya waiting for ...?;

    BUT NO this caring mother CHOSE to get in a freakin CAR and ride another 45 minutes to some podunk hospital outside Wasilla ...

    what a freakin IDIOT.

    ReplyDelete
  99. Sara said...

    That should be the message of the campaign

    No doubt.

    People seem to respond to simple messages in this country. Hell the republicans bank on it.

    So why all the "health care, social security, funding differences blah blah blah"?

    They need to make it simple.

    Remember "its the economy stupid"?

    That little diddy was credited with winning Bill Clinton the election in 92.

    That one simple phrase.

    Why?

    Because folks could relate. Simple folks. Old folks. The ones who vote.

    So if the democrats want to win this year then they need to drop all the fancy talk and focus on one simple difference that will influence the voters at vote time.

    And I think SMART vs STUPID is a good theme.

    Americans have had 8 years worth of stupid and they're painfully aware of how stupid Bush is. Hell DISH Network does TV commericals with Frank Caliendo mocking Bush's stupidity! People KNOW stupid.

    So, show em. Show em the difference.

    SMART vs STUPID.

    OBAMA vs McCAIN

    BIDEN vs PALIN

    :|

    SMART vs STUPID

    Its that easy.

    ReplyDelete
  100. Lydia
    I am just sickened by the lying and hypocrisy but that is what the fascist agenda wants so they can continue this mess and they have it!
    I have to tell you I watched that video and the more you change the more you don't. I was watching the young lady I knew from too close for Comfort. Very Good!

    ReplyDelete
  101. AP: Thank you very much! :)

    ReplyDelete
  102. "George W. Bush had very slight executive experience before becoming president. His views were not well known.

    He won the nomination exactly in the same way that Palin has won the hearts of so many conservatives: by sending cultural cues to convince them that he was one of them, understood them, sympathized with them.

    So that made everything else irrelevant in 2000 - as it seems again to be doing in 2008."



    Former Bush Speechwriter, David Frum

    ReplyDelete
  103. clif, the umpteen hours that Palin spent "after her water broke" doing other things is precisely why the rumors on the internets exist about who the mother of the baby actually is. ANY of us who have children (and I am a father of five, for the sake of disclosure) are just stunned at this kind of a story.

    There are also some photos of Sarah mountain biking when she was "six months along" that cannot help but raise questions. This isn't a tin-hat thing; as people who have had the same experiences in life, it is only natural that we;'d issue a collective "WTF?" at some of this.

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  104. Jolly what I find interesting is that Sarah Palin was the KEYNOTE speaker at the Republican Governors Conference BUT there are No Pictures of her at that conference I can find on the tubes.

    Just like almost ALL the pictures of her from this winter and spring have magically disappeared.

    I find things like this interesting.

    Why are all those pictures hard to find right now.

    ONE picture of her 6-7 1/2 months pregnant would put to rest all the rumors BUT for some reason the McCain-Palin campaign can't seem to find any.

    They feed a story which requires us to TRUST then and their words.

    But refuse to show any hard proof of their claims;

    As an interesting aside, Grant at kayinmaines blog came up with this gem;

    BTW, the Wasilla hospital had no record of a Trig Palin being born on April 18, 2008 and no births the previous or following days:

    What NO Trig?

    If you search for his name in the same hospital blog there is NONE either.

    Find Baby By Name

    You need to search back to the april-may time frame in the name search.

    ReplyDelete
  105. And clif, if you do a bit of searching on Bristol, you discover that she was out of school for several MONTHS because she had "mono."

    Presidential candidates release their medical records all the time. Why can't Sarah?

    ReplyDelete
  106. JR you what is REAL interesting is the daughter holds the child much more then either the Mother or FATHER does.

    I can see why the mother can't hold the baby, BUT why can't the FATHER hold him most of the time?

    It doesn't seem right to me .....

    ReplyDelete
  107. That is the one that confuses me the most, why doesn't the boys father seem to want to hold him?

    ReplyDelete
  108. Clif and JR, I had NEVER heard that story of Palin's water breakin and her giving a political speech and doing everything but going to the hospital, couple that with the fact there are NO PICTURES of that time period and no records of her baby and it looks REAL fishy to me.

    ReplyDelete
  109. Sorry to hijack the thread here, but i just read JR's article on the bailout of Fannie and Freddie at tax payer expense and McSame's continuation of GWB's welfare for the vwealthy and its spot on............I found a few interesting articles i'm going to post one that ties in foreign policicy and the interests of Russia and China to Bush's Robber Barron economic policies.

    ReplyDelete
  110. Lydia started off by taking a shot at Pentacostals. Check the initial post. So, an institution that discriminates, like the Military, that's O.K? How convenient for you. And what about all those people who HAVEN'T left the Catholic Church? Are they sexist? Wow, what an absolutely cheap shot against George Romney, the work he "condescendingly did for black people. Talk about impugning a person's motivation.

    ReplyDelete
  111. Down The Rabbit Hole

    Peter Schiff
    September 5, 2008

    In recent months, investors have been unjustly chastised for their lack of consistency. In truth, they have an unblemished record of drawing the wrong conclusions. Last week’s 2nd quarter GDP report provides the freshest evidence of market cluelessness.

    In its report, the Commerce Department stunned economy watchers by showing a 3.3% annualized increase in 2nd Quarter GDP. The robust growth apparently wrong-footed those expecting further recessionary signals, lent further strength to the current dollar rally, and encouraged previously cautious investors to take another look at U.S. stocks. The strong number also bolstered claims by the Bush administration and the McCain campaign that a recession is primarily a psychological phenomenon. These conclusions would be at least quasi-logical if they were not based on a complete misreading of the report.

    Without raising an eyebrow on Wall Street or in the press, the GDP deflator, used in the report to downwardly adjust GDP to account for inflation, was shown at just 1.2% annualized.... the lowest deflator in ten years. In other words, to arrive at a 3.3% growth rate, the government assumed that inflation is running at a ten-year low! In contrast, the latest reading on consumer prices (CPI) in the second quarter shows year-on-year inflation running at a 5.6% rate, a seventeen-year high! In fact, for the second quarter, the same time period measured by the GDP deflator, prices actually rose at an even faster pace of 8.0% annualized. How can it be that inflation is simultaneously running at a seventeen-year high and a ten-year low? Welcome to the Alice in Wonderland world of government statistics.

    You would think that this statistical bombshell would raise the hackles of the press. Think again. Not only did the hawk-eyed media completely miss the story last week, they have totally ignored our subsequent attempts to show them the light (with the exception of the N.Y. Post’s John Crudele – who has long suspected a ruse). Although none of the reporters we spoke with could explain why inflation could run at a 10 year low and a 17 year high at the same time, they did not deem the anomaly sufficiently noteworthy. Having been ignored by reporters, I then tried the opinion pages. Unfortunately the piece that we prepared on the subject was rejected this week by all the leading national newspapers.

    Reporter Michael Mandel did note the head scratcher on a BusinessWeek blog posting last Friday. As a partial explanation he pointed out the CPI measures the prices of what we buy, and the GDP deflator measures the prices of what we make. Although this certainly sheds some light, it offers no real explanation. Excluding imports and exports, both measures are determined by the same forces, and should move in relative harmony. If anything, the costs of what we make should be outpacing the costs of what we buy. Producer prices are now rising faster than consumer prices (the latest annual reading of the Producer Price Index ‘PPI’ being 13.2% annualized from the 2nd quarter), which helps explain why corporate profits have fallen drastically. In addition, from July 2007 through July 2008 (the latest data available) import and export prices have risen 21.6% and 10.2% respectively. In other words, no matter what numbers you use, the 1.2% GDP deflator simply doesn’t add up.

    I have often argued that government statistics are dubious, particularly those related to inflation. But here is an example where they are not even consistent! If we simply use second quarter CPI to adjust nominal second quarter GDP for inflation, the number would have registered a 3.5% annualized decline.

    Such horrific GDP numbers are much more consistent with the anecdotal recession evidence that Wall Street and Washington want us to ignore (confirmed by today’s weak jobs report which included the unemployment rate spiking to 6.1%, a five-year high). However, with Orwellian propaganda, our government fabricates GDP growth out of thin air without the smoke and mirrors traditionally required for such an elaborate illusion. All that is required is to put out ludicrous statistics and hope no one notices. Given that this strategy appears to be working, expect future government numbers to get even more outrageous. After all, if they can get away with this, they can likely get away with anything.

    Investors relying on this data and reacting to the global economic slowdown by buying dollars and other U.S. based assets while selling gold, commodities, and foreign assets, are jumping out of the frying pan right into the fire. My guess is that it will not be much longer before they feel the heat.

    ReplyDelete
  112. JR and Clif, along with breaking up the MSM media empires and conglomerates to insure truth and honesty in media and fact based news rather than Reich wing lies and spin, and preventing the SCOTUS from being stacked with freedom hating elitist fascists who crave a fascist police state, several other reasons we need to win back the White House are to stop the bogus dishonest government stats currently being used to steal from the working class and the poor.

    I've talked about the Core CPI and how it is a complete joke and utter lie many times before firstly it excludes food and energy the two things that have probably inflated and risen in price the MOST the last 8 years, particularly the last year, food and energy probably make up 90% of my expenses other than housing.......and as for housing the CPI doesnt even measure housing it measures rents, so if 65% of America owns houses and those houses were rising like crazy the last 10 years that inflation is hidden just as the current food and energy prices were hidden, last year gas prices double and the core CPI about half way through the year was listed around 2% food and gas which make up roughly 90% of my non housing expenses doubled and the idiots calculating the CPI say inflation is around 2%..............ok they gotten better recently they are around 4%-5%, the trouble is when you use the older more accurate method of calculating the CPI it is around 14%..........among the worst its ever been.

    Lets examine some other bogus ways of calculating the CPI, i've discussed Hedonics before but lets briefly go over it again in a general way Hedonics is used as a sham to vastly understate inflation and overstate GDP, just as an example lets say computer processing speed has gone up 5 times over a 10 year period while prices have remained the same now this is likely a slight exaggeration but for simplicity sake lets say that Hedonics would say that computer prices are "FALLING" by 50% per year even though the price you pay for a computer is the same and even though the government claims productivity is rising at 50% a year for computers you cant type or generate a report 50% faster or do your job 50% faster.......this also works for other items take coffee makers say the price for a coffee maker rises 20% from last year but the new models allow it to set a timer to make the coffee automatically that saves you about 90 seconds of sleep in the morning Hedonics could claim the price went down 10% because you are more productive even though you are paying 20% more........see the Hedonics sham allows many items particularly electronics and appliances to dishonestly offset the rise of items like food and energy, consider that a computer is usually only bought every 5 years or so while food and energy are every day expenses. Further Hedonics could be used to overstate GDP, in several ways firstly inflation is always subtracted from GDP so if inflation is understated at 4% instead of 14% then GDP will be overstated by a similar amount because much of the rise in GDP is illusory because of inflation and devalued dollars, the second way is if computer prices remain the same but processor speed rises 50% the government could take that 50 million in sales Bartlebe had for instance and make it 75 million thus overstating GDP, understating CPI and cheating seniors and the working class particularly those on fixed income who get raises according to the stated CPI.


    The purpose of CPI AND Fed is to stop inflation from robbing the working class and poor and reducing their standard of living, in fact the Federal Reserve has a dual mandate to control inflation and maintain maximum unemployment...........lets examine yet ANOTHER sham they utilize to cheat the poor and working class and do the EXACT OPPOSITE.

    The Federal Reserve uses the PCE Deflator to hide and camaflage inflation and lower standards of living and reduced lifestyles, it basically says instead of inflation infiltrating the economy and lowering peoples standard of living you just substitute one thing for another and everything is great......kinda like when Cheney stated the Iraqi's will scatter rose petals at our feet and greet us as liberators. lets look at another cute little example of scams like the PCE Deflator and Hedonics dreamed up by economic charlatans and hacks like Phil Graham, Milton Friedman, Helicopter Ben Bernanke, The Maestro, Reagan and others:

    Lets say the year is 2005 and our good friend Fascist Fan drives a Dodge Viper with a big block V10 engine, eats Filet Mignon and King Crab legs 4 times a week and takes 4 vacations a year to Europe along with putting $15,000 a year away for retirement in a 401 K.................lets say food and energy rise 50% as does insurance and other costs and the Fascist Fan only receives his 2% raise, now while the CPI has only gone up a "CLAIMED" 2% the Fascist Fan feels the pinch so his wife gets a job and he substitutes Filet Mignon and crab 2 nights a week for hamburger and fries, substitutes 2 vacations to Europe for a relaxing vacation 2 weeks at home.

    Now the Year is 2007 and food and energy have again risen at 50% per year, so now the Fascist Fan substitutes his Dodge Viper with the mighty V10 for a Toyota Prius, his 2 nights a week of filet mignon and crab for hamburger and fries 4 nights a week, he substitutes his remaining 2 vacations to Europe for 2 relaxing weeks at home, and 2 weeks were he goes to work and takes the money instead of the vacation time off.

    Now the year is 2008, food and energy have risen 100% per year, so now the Fascist Fan substitutes the $15,000 he puts in a 410K for retirement for paying down his credit card debt and the Foole's wife substitutes the free time she has from her 20 hour a week part time job for a full time 40 hour a week job so she can earn more money.

    Now the year is 2009 food and energy have again risen 50% a year, so now the Fascist Fan substitutes the hamburger and fries for catfood, substitutes all his vacations for working 52 weeks a year and takes the money instead.

    Now the year is 2010 food and energy have risen 150% a year, so now the Fascist Fan substitutes driving his Prius to work with riding a bicycle to work, he substitutes paying his electrical bill for light and heat with using candles and wrapping himself in a blanket, and he substitutes the catfood he bought to scrounging for roadkill or shooting and eating birds and the neighbors dogs or cats and raiding other peoples gardens and stealing vegetables........................BUT according to charlatans and hacks like Helicopter Ben Bernanke, Greenspan, Milton Freedman, Phil Graham etc............there IS NO INFLATION AND YOUR STANDARD OF LIVING AND LIFESTYLE DID NOT DECLINE............oh YEAH AND PHIL GRAHAM MCSAME"S OLD ECONOMIC ADVISOR SAYS TO QUIT WHINING THE ECONOMY IS FINE!

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  113. Clif, I respect the Military. I brought it up to show this Bartlebee character how we shouldn't judge a group based on a single policy or facet/individual. That's all. As far as I'm concerned, Clif, you and I are good. I am committed to being more understanding of you and the things that you've been through.

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  114. Mike this story gets curiouser and curiouser .....

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  115. Clif and JR, I had NEVER heard that story of Palin's water breakin and her giving a political speech and doing everything but going to the hospital, couple that with the fact there are NO PICTURES of that time period and no records of her baby and it looks REAL fishy to me.

    mike,

    Here ya go. It's a collection of several "Trig" stories, the ones we're talking about being among them. And the stories are NOT from liberal blogs; click the links.

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  116. Guys, I dont think the "Who is Trig's Mommy" story is worth pursuing. The only reason they would be covering anything up is they didnt want word to get out that their teenaged unmarried daughter had a baby ... but the kid is pregnant so there goes that idea.

    Really, why bother?

    ReplyDelete
  117. Achilles Heel, Shock Wave, Transformation
    Jim Willie CB September 5, 2008


    home: Golden Jackass website
    subscribe: Hat Trick Letter

    Jim Willie CB, editor of the “HAT TRICK LETTER”

    Something big this way comes. Events will center upon the arch-nemesis of gold, the USTreasury Bond. Market interference is too huge, for bonds, for bank stocks, for the entire financial sector. Banking system structures are too broken. The pillars of the USEconomy are all in deep trouble, with profound deficits and insolvency the rule of the day. See the USGovt federal deficit (growing fast), the trade deficit (chronically large), the housing negative equity (worsening gradually), and insolvent banks (worse each quarter, despite the denials). A massive shock wave is coming. In all likelihood plans are in place, with events already set in motion, as the plan is probably to be event driven. Their objective is to disable the US juggernaut, whose principal parts are a fraud centrifuge with numerous supporting mechanisms, and an aggressive military machine with key banking supporting mechanisms. In order to disable, derail, and bring a halt to abuse by the US leaders in banking, politics, commerce, and military, the foreigners (not just perceived enemies), have turned their attention to the Achilles Heel. Timing is critical, probably centered at the US presidential election, or events aligned for its distraction. Details on a possible scenario are to be found in the September Hat Trick Letter, which will be of a simpler more succinct format this month. Typical information flow and usual analysis seem out of place. Like with the US system of schools and business, the new year starts in September. This will be a strategic report.

    Geopolitical risks have raised to crescendo levels, as powerful enemies are angry. Given false news reports, the United States leadership and population seem incredibly confident and complacent, a big risk. They fail to see the significance of events in Georgia and all along the Russian border. Be sure to know that the economic decline and faulty foundation found in numerous AngloSphere (US, UK, Australia, NZ, Ireland, even Canada) systems has a backlash coming, which will propel some of these nations into Third World status, or vassal positions under Chinese rule, even ignored backwaters.

    GOLDEN NEMESIS IS VULNERABLE

    A blowoff top appears evident in the USTreasury complex. The USEconomic recession is accelerating, with confirmation in the bond market. That statement might sound contradictory. An assumed 1.3% price inflation for Q2 was required in order to concoct a goofy story of 3% Gross Domestic Product growth. The US is in much worse shape than any major continental economy, bar none. If the phony GDP figure were believed, the S&P500 stock index would not be challenging at a multi-year breakdown. Press reporting of the USEconomy has grown more distorted than ever before to support the US system. In fact, the US financial system resembles a gigantic fraudulent syndicate ring system. The irony is that exported bond fraud in past years has been followed by tin-cupping this year so as to secure replenishment funds to stave off bankruptcy. Integrity of US financial firms is at rock bottom, inviting foreign reaction. My position is that JPMorgan stands at the center of the syndicate ring, starting with Enron involvement in 2000, extending to Cantor Fitzgerald involvement in Sept 2001, and now with Bank of Baghdad involvement in processing clandestine Afghan funds in clearinghouse operations. JPMorgan might be the center of the money laundering operations that have kept Wall Street banks afloat for years. Anyone with connections to financial officers to these firms considers this information to be basic.

    This US structural system has a vital channel. The bankruptcy of America is the story of the year, as 2008 is the year the system breaks. The crowning blow is the exported bond fraud, its lack of prosecution within the US, and the exclusion of US banks and some corporations from the planned ‘Post-US World’ underway. Numerous summit level conferences where important commerce and banking agreements have been recently forged on several continents, all having excluded the United States from participation. Big movement is seen in the US bond market. Foreign central bank intervention has accelerated in the last several weeks. The 10-year TNote yield is at the 3.6% level after hue & cry of price inflation all through spring months. NO SURPRISE HERE! We might be seeing a double top failure in the long-term USTreasurys. The historical chart bears this out more clearly.



    Along with a USTreasury rally has come a giant swap trend, as foreign wealth centers have traded out US Mortgage Agency bonds and into USTreasurys, adding to the blowoff top. Some foreign entities are openly requesting bailout redemption of impaired bonds. All corners seem to be hunkering down into USTBonds as a safe haven. The risk of an actual default in USTreasurys must be taken seriously, in view of upcoming intentions, however unwillingly executed, to nationalize everything under the sun inside the US landscape. The natural nemesis in financial markets for gold is the USTreasury Bond. New supply puts it at great risk. The printing press with raised lamination will produce huge USDollar output soon. Nationalization demands it. The consequent risk to the USDollar and USTreasury Bond is deep, profound, and stark!

    FAILURES & STRESSES

    As the USEconomic recession has taken grip, capital gains tax revenues and payroll income tax revenues are way down. Almost no specific story supports the growth story told. Even the export trade will be tripped up by global slowdown. The USGovt federal budget deficit will be enormous, even without the nationalization demands. The collection of sectors seeking imminent bailouts in the nationalization theme include Fannie Mae & Freddie Mac, General Motors and Ford, Wall Street banks, and some airlines. Add to that demand some staggering funding requirements for the Federal Deposit Insurance Corp (covering failed bank deposits) and the Pension Guarantee Fund (covering failed corporate pension funds), to raise strain to a crescendo. Did PIMCO actually hint they wanted a bailout too? Of course, never overlook the sacred military budget demands, never to be challenged or reduced, but always adding great USTBond supply.

    During the past two decades, foreigners have accumulated gigantic USTBond holdings. Now finally, too many foreign enemies hold huge amounts of USTBonds, a risk my work has mentioned steadily. The US no longer controls its destiny. The risk to sovereignty has built to a point of recognition as capital sale replenishment deals abound, a frequent occurrence for big banks. The USDollar is rallying when its financial condition is imploding. The driving force for the deteriorating crippled US condition is the housing decline. Just today, more dreadful home foreclosure and delinquency data was released. The story of US relative strength is absurd on its face, and yet another important chapter in the US Economic Mythology treatise. Such a contradiction invites a reaction.

    Watch the South Koreans not invest in either Lehman or Merrill Lynch, since they are not fools. Did Lone Star actually sue the Koreans so as to block this rescue effort? Look for one or both of these Wall Street crippled firms to fall into bankruptcy soon. The climate will change radically as a result. The end of the Q3 quarter is nigh, and admission of renewed larger bank losses is a cinch. They are nowhere near the end of their mortgage nightmare. Watch Citigroup and AIG for matching failures. The Credit Default Swap conflagration is located on the AIG doorstep. The sovereign risk to the United States is now overshadowed by a risk of pre-emptive financial attack from foreign locations. The point here is that a mountain of new USTreasury supply is guaranteed to come soon. The new supply flies in the face of rising price. The timing for a bond attack is soon possibly perfect. For years, nobody has questioned the USTBond as the only viable parking lot for surplus capital, the largest and most liquid market in the world. Times will change. Third World bonds do not flourish!

    The price inflation front is another big risk for USTreasurys. A CPI over 5% for back to back months represents a threat, but it is allayed by dormant wages. Next year, many sharp analysts expect the US Consumer Price Index to top level 10% level. Already the jobless rate surpassed 6% in the US, amidst a strange admission. Recognized in the open was how the extension of state jobless benefits resulted in counting more of the jobless! The return of gold used as an inflation hedge will be realized soon. As trade friction grows with China, in Post-Olympics times, the US will be less the beneficiary to lower wages from globalization. Gold will be the ultimate safe haven vehicle soon.

    THE PROVOKED BEAR

    A scenario must be laid out for theories of discontinuous nonlinear events and solutions whose fallout will alter completely the global geopolitical chessboard. The September Hat Trick Letter will focus on this topic from numerous angles. The next global chapter will have the United States isolated into a ‘Glorified Third World’ surreal land. What many analysts fail to comprehend is that the current situation cannot continue, characterized by Third World finances, unspeakable bank fraud, and aggressive military behavior, whose mix is totally incongruous. Continuation of the status quo is untenable. The most recent events to upset the geopolitical balance in a state of constant flux is the attack by the US and Georgia forces against Russia, portrayed in opposite fashion. The US even had some help from allies on the battlefield, with dead soldiers behind the Russian lines held in freezer chests as bargaining chips and tangible proof. This all is avoided by the intrepid deceptive US press. To seek sanctions against Russia for its own defense seems ludicrous. The Russian bear has been goaded, poked, and provoked in a systematic fashion. It will respond. Behind the scenes, plans have been made. The USMilitary is funded increasingly by foreigners, many of whom are considered enemies. It is almost tragic that so-called trade partners at the beginning of this decade 2000 have turned into enemies. Russia and China will become uneasy essential allies, whose common trait will be their opposition to the United States. They each want a formal seat at Global Finance Minister Meetings, routinely denied. The fragile trade relationship that the US depends so critically upon hinges upon continued USTreasury Bond support. Do not consider it assured. The USTreasury Bond is the quintessential point of vulnerability to the entire US financial, economic, and military system. A pre-emptive attack against the USTBond must be taken seriously. That is the story that has come to my desk in recent weeks.

    Europe is the key prize. The US is attempting to push Europe into a conflict with Russia, so that the Russian emerging giant does not forge closer ties with Europe, to the exclusion of the United States. The NATO accords have been twisted and dishonored, used as a US convenience. Some might argue that NATO is dead, remaining only as a sharp stick to poke Russia with. The Russian-German relationship is natural and historical. Even Catherine the Great from Russia was from German royal bloodlines. The Russian-European energy supply relationship is natural and efficient. President Putin, and now his sidekick Medvedev, have grand resource and energy deposit wealth, and full willingness to use it as a powerful weapon. They might soon exclude the US in the supply chain, in favor or China, all the while keeping the tap flowing to Europe. The German leaders seem to be talking honestly with Russians, but engaging in lipservice to the Americans, winking across the Urals in the process. The next stage of conflict is Ukraine, where more US color revolution meddling is deep. What many US tacticians fail to comprehend is that the USMilitary machine is on the verge of depletion (both troops & machinery), at a time when Russia has developed some key tactical superiority. The USMilitary is left with missiles, aircraft, and drones. See the anti-ship Sunburn and Onyx missiles in Russian control, each supersonic. The US Cruise missile is not. An attack on Iran, whether warranted or not, will immediately prompt a harsh and lethal financial counter-measure by Russia and its allies. The hapless US leaders are left to squirm and wonder who their allies are these days. Iran could be the grand trap.

    THE GOLD ANGLE

    Encircling the Big Bear has led to a powerful reaction, one that comes. It is planned, and awaits execution in an event-driven scenario. Quietly, physical demand for gold & silver has grown to monumental levels. Do not be deterred or distracted by the falling gold & silver prices. The price mechanism has totally broken, as supply is absent and vanishing. Since Russia, China, and the Arabs own so much gold, they are motivated to endorse the plan that comes, the plan in place, the plan that needs only the trigger events. Powerful foreign entities are increasingly angered by the price decline in gold, as US paperhanger conmen fraud kings have intervened to do harm to foreign savings accounts. Perhaps foreign entities will hatch an event, whose trigger remains unclear. Perhaps they will permit unwitting reckless US leaders to proceed down the path, where they continue to fall into traps, where doors continue to close behind them. In any newly established vacuum could quickly come new gold-backed currencies. Two are already planned, whose launch date is uncertain but clearly tied to the upcoming plan. The Arabs, Chinese, and Russians have accumulated gigantic reserves, much of which is held in the form of US$-based securities. These nations and peoples are not friends of the United States. Recent friendship has been a convenience for them and a trap for Americans. Arabs have an extremely uneasy alliance with Americans, who continue to trumpet their war against (Islamic) terrorism.

    Big changes are coming. The euro currency will not continue in its present form for long. The Germans refuse to join fortunes with wrecked Latin southern nations. The split is sure to lift the euro remaining in the German corner and lift gold in the process from extreme disruption. When the plan is hatched and put into action, the extreme disruptions to the US Achilles Heel will lead to a historically unprecedented beneficial discontinuity that favors gold, since its paper-based bond alternative will have been relegated to the basement. The USTreasury Bond must soon reflect its Third World characteristics. The flipside of the American Peso (Dollar) is the USTreasury Bond. It is the feeder system to too much that cannot justifiably continue. So many dangerous assumptions are made by arrogant complacent folks. As a bright German colleague recently said to me, “People do not embrace change, but change will embrace people.” Change comes. If your stomach is not churning by recent events, you are not in possession of a stomach.

    The gold & silver markets are downtrodden in a harsh correction, when their safe haven status is actually improving. Something is soon to erupt, and it will change the world, especially the United States. The gold & silver prices will suddenly find themselves at 50% to 100% above their current prices, after the upcoming planned pre-emptive event staged against the USTreasurys. As numerous US financial instruments are defaulting, one must examine the potential for USTreasury default. Some must wonder what attack could come about. Imagine a steady large batch of sell orders, of larger size than the recent buy orders from central banks. The sell orders are repeated each day. The USGovt would not permit its continuation and extremely damaging effects. Unwittingly, the central bankers have taught the powerful adversaries to the United States how to cripple the national financial structure.

    Amidst profound changes soon to be forced upon the United States, the principal losers will be the USDollar &USTreasury Bond, with the big winners being gold & silver. Foreigners, some with newly forged alliances, are preparing for the next global chapter. That new era will NOT have the United States at the helm, or even at many tables for decision making. The US has earned through fraud, bullying, and arrogance a banishment. The US will be isolated and relegated to the backwaters, which can be properly the New Third World. It will be glorified by US leaders and US press. DO NOT SELL YOUR GOLD & SILVER. RATHER, TRY TO BUY SOME IN PHYSICAL FORM, IF YOU CAN FIND IT!!!

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  118. Thanks JR, i was going to ask you for a link........you read my mind apparently!

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  119. MCH said...
    Guys, I dont think the "Who is Trig's Mommy" story is worth pursuing. The only reason they would be covering anything up is they didnt want word to get out that their teenaged unmarried daughter had a baby ... but the kid is pregnant so there goes that idea.

    Really, why bother?"


    MCH, while what your saying makes sense...........the issue isnt who's baby it REALLY is so much as that Palin is EITHER a liar or her judgement is horrific...............I mean do you honestly think women would find it reasonable to give a political speech and spend essentially an entire day in planes and cars AFTER your water broke extremely prematurely with a special needs child.............I dont think ANY mother or father would think those decisions reasonable and if her decision making isnt acceptable for her own family HOW can it be acceptable as a Vice President for our Nation?

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  120. Guys, I dont think the "Who is Trig's Mommy" story is worth pursuing. The only reason they would be covering anything up is they didnt want word to get out that their teenaged unmarried daughter had a baby ... but the kid is pregnant so there goes that idea.

    Really, why bother?


    Why bother? Care to take bets on whether or not there's going to be a "miscarriage?"

    I'm sorry-this speaks directly to Sarah's character, if true.

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  121. mch .... the right wing has proved time and time again they will LIE about anything, this time i bet Sarah Palin and her hubby lied to look good in April 2008 never thinkin' she was gonna get picked fror a job she don't know what it is, ..... and NOW St Johnny has to enlarge the lie to the entire country or drop her ala Tom Eagleton.

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  122. Clif, JR, Bartlebe read that last article i posted if you guys have time............I think it ties together the GWB Robber Baron type cronny capitalism and Welfare for the Wealthy with Putin's recent moves in Georgia and the Russian/Chinese?iranian alliance.

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  123. will "take no prisoners" hart stated"Bartlebee, Clif, I think if you went into any church with a camcorder, you could find idiotic dogma coming out of the mouth of the minister/priest. Hell, even when I was a kid/teenager, my Episcopal priest used to say stuff that made me frigging cringe (part of the reason I became an agnostic). Look, I personally think that all organized religion has a divisive element (there are positive social aspects as well, especially in a more homogenious society but, for me, the "leap" is too absurd) to them. I just think we have to be careful 1)in singling out a specific religion and 2)overgeneralizing within these religions. Like I said, I've know Pentacostals who didn't believe in war. And what about the Catholics who DON'T "leave", is it fair to call them sexist, especially if they aren't sexist in other spheres of their lives? I'm trying to be "liberal" here. Later.


    Sir, while my intention is not to impugn your honor I must say your assessment is rather, daft, and dotty, and your alalogies rather dodgy, feeble minded and fuzzy. First of all my good man, you seem to be the poor sod that is using the sweeping generalizations and painting in rather broad strokes.


    Please enlighten me sir, as to how "all organized religion" or "Catholics" equate to a rather narrow clearly defined sect such as the Assembly of God?

    Sir, I would postulate that a rather narrow extremist sect like the Assembly of God, with a clearly stated extremist belief system would only attract like minded extremists and radicals, much as the the Ku Klux Klan or Osama Bin Laden's Jihadist do, to say Osama Bin Laden's Jihadist movement also attracts reasonable peace loving Muslim's or that the Ku Klux Klan also attracts moderate peace loving activists that champion equality and Civil Rights is beyond the pale, it is patently absurb, and the type of disingenous argument that only the daft or dishonest would attempt to cultivate.

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  124. will "take no prisoners" hart Stated"Oh, and for the record, Bartlebee, Mitt Romney's father George (former Governor of Michigan, briefly ran for President in '68), also a Mormon, had one of the best civil rights records of the '60s. I think it was unfair to say that ALL pre-1970 Mormons were racists?"


    Sir, while I do not profess to be clairvoyant, I beseech you before starting a row to consider the rather salient point that a sod with, shall we say political aspirations for the presidency, unless he be a dotard must be in step with the mainstream rather than a rather narrow, radical extremist sect that hold bigoted views. In other words Sir is it not possible Governor Romney put aside or rather concealed
    his rather bigoted beliefs in order to attain the presidency.

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  125. Will "take no prisoners" Hart said...
    Lydia started off by taking a shot at Pentacostals. Check the initial post.


    Fine. I was talking about Palins church however. The Pentacostals are debatable too however.

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  126. will "take no prisoners" hart Stated"And what about the military. They discriminate against homosexuals. Does that mean that everybody who goes in the service is anti-gay? Of course, it doesn't....While maybe Mrs. Palin has deriven X,Y,and Z out of her faith, other people may go to that church for other reasons. Look, I have troubles with Palin's absolutist views on abortion, her skepticism on evolution, her support for abstinence only sex education. I think that I'm astute enough to confront her on these issues without ending with, "Oh, and, by the way, you're religion - it stinks!!."

    Sir as Bartlebee stated previously, the military is an institution, further policies at said institution are decided by its leadership, would you want Governor Palin to be that leadership sir, when her rather extremist and ruffian like views and policies are almost a mirror image of other radical extremists like the Ku Klux Klan or radical islamic jihadists who relish war, and deny science . My good man lest you be a blackhearted ruffian, who fancies such daft fanatical positions I beseech you to revisit your stated position and perhaps craft a more reasoned response.

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  127. Bartlebe, i know its long, but if you have time, read that last long article i posted and let me know what you think, it ties together what the Russians and their alliance are doing with what the Neo Cons are trying to do.

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  128. Will "take no prisoners" Hart said...
    So, an institution that discriminates, like the Military, that's O.K?

    Never said it was. Thats another debate, which you are using as a straw argument.

    We're talking about religion.

    Belief systems.

    The military is not a belief system.

    A DD214 is not a "belief". It is an actual document.

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  129. I think the KEY here is to highlight the fact that McSame and Palin have piss poor judgement and Obama and Biden have good judgement..........................Just like 1992 was "its the economy stupid"............this election should be about judgement and brains.........make it about that and its a slam dunk!

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  130. A DD214 is not a "belief". It is an actual document.

    I hope not I have more then one DD214.

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  131. BARTLEBEE said...
    Will "take no prisoners" Hart said...
    So, an institution that discriminates, like the Military, that's O.K?

    Never said it was. Thats another debate, which you are using as a straw argument.

    We're talking about religion.

    Belief systems.

    The military is not a belief system.

    A DD214 is not a "belief". It is an actual document."



    Bart thats ALL this clown does is create strawman arguments...............then get all angry and hostile when you rip him up and make him look stupid.............THATS WHY HE HATES ME!

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  132. Will "take no prisoners" Hart said...

    And what about all those people who HAVEN'T left the Catholic Church? Are they sexist?


    They are to the degree that they are willing to profess allegiance to a church that is.

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  133. Are you sure THATS why he hates you Mike? lol

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  134. McSame's campaign is like a trainwreck............I watched some of McSame's and Palin's speechs................they seemed MORE like a lampoon you would see on Satursay Night Live than a real Convention speech...........these clowns look like pathetic jokes just like all the trolls do.

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  135. BARTLEBEE said...
    Are you sure THATS why he hates you Mike? lol"


    Well I dont Bart...........do you think it could be my magnetic personality?

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  136. clif said...
    A DD214 is not a "belief". It is an actual document.

    I hope not I have more then one DD214.


    Well Clif for Wills argument to hold water then must only "believe" you have them.

    And when the military trains you to shoot your rifle they're only telling you what they believe will happen when you pull the trigger.

    Because it must be a belief system, otherwise why would Will be trying to integrate it into our discussion on belief systems?

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  137. Mike said...


    Well I dont Bart...........do you think it could be my magnetic personality?


    That or your fresh minty breath.

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  138. Fine. I was talking about Palins church however. The Pentacostals are debatable too however.

    Damn straight, they are. The AG is bad news, period.

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  139. Dave Dubya said...
    Right wingers are like cockroaches. The fear the light of day.

    The truth has always frightened them.

    The only "truth" they see is in the slogans of their authoritarian leaders. Their Rovian manufactured version of reality is all they need."


    Another good one!

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  140. Bartlebee, I was trying to make a comparison between one imperfect group and another. The fact that one is a religion and the other isn't ISN'T a "straw dog" (find another stock phrase, would you?). It was an attempt to show you that if in fact you dig deep enough, you can find some shit anywhere. And, yes, to underscore, also, that you guys only like to dig in certain spots/people's pasts.

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  141. And this pseudo-intellectual Thu character, shitting on George Romney, saying that he only did those good things to enhance his political career. How ironic is that, huh? This, I'm saying, in that that's what a lot of people on the other side are saying about Obama, why he joined HIS idiotic church, hung out with Bill Ayers, became a community organizer, etc.. I don't know, I think it's best not to rip into a person's motivation. You never know when it might come back to haunt you.

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  142. The reason I don't like you, Mike, is because you're a dick - nothing more and nothing less. Talk about a loser who like to flatter himself.

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  143. No Will, all you're doing is burying your strawdog in a sea of bullshit.

    Our criticisms have been against individuals or churches that teach war from the Christian pulpit.

    You however invent your lie by accusing us of stereotyping by religion, instead of the actual gauge we use, that is, those calling themselve Christian but preaching violence.

    Your spineless whiny blubbering about us "stereotyping" people by religion is thus nothing more than what it is.

    A straw argument.

    Invented by an apparently tiny mind incapable of supporting his untenable positions without resorting to lying.

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  144. Will said...

    The fact that one is a religion and the other isn't ISN'T a "straw dog" (find another stock phrase, would you?). It was an attempt to show you that if in fact you dig deep enough, you can find some shit anywhere.

    Yes, it is a straw dog.

    In fact, it is the very textbook defintion of a straw argument.

    Both I and Lydia present the notion that it is pious hypocrisy for religions, "belief systems", calling themselves Christian who preach war and violence, are hypocritical.

    You CHANGE that position, to all organizations, and then demand we defend that position, instead of the positions we actually presented.

    It is the very defintion of a straw argument.

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  145. Examples of Straw Arguments from WikiPedia;
    --------

    - Hypothetical Marijuana debate.

    Person A: We should liberalize the laws on marijuana.

    Person B: No. Any society with unrestricted access to drugs loses its work ethic and goes only for immediate gratification.

    The proposal was to relax laws on marijuana. Person B has exaggerated this to a position harder to defend: "unrestricted access to drugs".[1]

    -------
    www.wikipedia.com

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  146. Example of Straw Argument number 2 from Wikipedia;

    ------

    A beach debate.
    Person A: Nude bathing is healthy and nude beaches should be permitted here.

    Person B: No. That kind of free sex threatens the morality of society.

    Person B has misrepresented A's position as a call for sexual promiscuity.

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  147. The fact that one is a religion and the other isn't ISN'T a "straw dog"

    Yes it is because religions make claims which can never be proved, either you believe in those claims with O real ability to determine the truth of falsehood or you can't belong. And supposedly the beliefs are from God, which means we as humans can't change them.

    The military is a system created by people with written rules which are open to interpretation and change, and you don't have to believe in anything you can't see touch or feel just follow the written rules and wear a funny uniform.

    They aren't the same in the way YOU claim they are.

    The people in the military don't have to believe in any claims if they follow the written rules, and the religion requires beliefs which can not be seen.

    Also the religion requires unchanging dogma, which forms the basis of their beliefs, the military culture requires the ability to adapt to change sometimes rather quickly.

    When the change comes the military can say things changes, but when the dogma of a religion is changed like the Mormons allowing blacks into their religion, they have to say the previous prophet wasn't correct in restricting them from the priesthood. Which means the prophet is fallible, which undercuts their entire claim he gets his pronouncements directly from god.

    The Pope changing doctrine is the same thing.

    Changing doctrine in the military is just saying things evolve with the changing weapons system and technology.

    It isn't the same thing.

    The arguments against gays today are the same against blacks in the Army before 1948.

    Neither say what is true but what the majority of the power structure fears, and taken to extremes is destructive of the military in it's greatest time of need, the 1948 military has a historical connection to the buffalo soldiers and black units of the civil war which both proved the doctrine was false, but that didn't s]destroy the structure of the military in the same way proving Satan isn't real would destroy any religion.

    They two aren't comparable in the way you tried to do.

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  148. We make a position specifically about Belief Systems, and you respond by demanding we include in our position now, ANY organization you'd like.

    We were talking about Belief Systems.

    You couldn't refute our position, so you decided to "broaden" it for us, to include all organizations under the sun.

    Thus, you created a straw argument.

    Deal with it.

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  149. The fact is, there are both individuals and churches that are teaching war from the pulpit, and also denouncing science in favor of ignorance.

    While we recognize their rights to believe such nonsense, we also recognize our rights to criticize them for doing so.

    Belief Systems are generally in my mind, a bad thing, because they invariably restrict knowledge for the believer to the confines of their doctrines. However we tolerate them, but will also call attention to them when they are corrupt by their own standards, as are corrupt Christian churches who teach hate, war, and ignorance as doctrines in place of the Christian teachings they claim to represent.

    Sorry you don't like it, but as they say in olllllleeee Mexico City... tough nooogies.

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  150. Talk about a loser who like to flatter himself.

    Mirror meet Will.

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  151. Damn, I hope there are no smokers here. Will has spread around so much straw that the whole place is in danger of going up.

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  152. shitting on George Romney, saying that he only did those good things to enhance his political career. How ironic is that, huh?

    Did George Romney EVER publicly stand up and denounce the position of the Mormon church, especially before 1978?

    Not that I know of.

    So thu seems spot on there.

    Sorry old boy but sometimes politicians say one thing publicly and hold a different opinion privately.

    In Romney's case he had his private potion, his political public position and what he agreed to in going to the Mormon church.

    His public position is well public which means we can state it here, like you did,

    The Mormon church's position is also public but seem in contravention of Romney's public political position.

    Which means since we can't crawl inside his cranium and check all his synapses, we can never know how he correlated his two positions that are public, the one he used for politics, and the one his church demanded he obey, in the private recesses of his mind.

    However Thu pointed out this dichotomy out rather well old boy.

    You just don't like where it appears to go to, since he claimed to Believe in his religion, and all their questionable practices, no matter what he did in public.

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  153. Don't worry Jolly, Voltron is consoling widdle will on his widdle blog,


    Here

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  154. The whole argument is ridiculous anyway.

    I'm not buying that I ought to not question the whole of the AG. I DO question the whole of the AG, and I do so unapologetically.

    I'm a born and raised hillbilly. My grandfather was a Baptist minister, as were 7 of my uncles. I have known, encountered, and hung around Pentecostals my whole life. There is no way in hell I would trust EVEN ONE of the holy rollers I've known personally in ANY Governmental position, because their doctrine is hostile to the United States Constitution. I say without any reservation at all that you cannot be a good Pentecostal AND respect the First Amendment. It really is as cut and dried as that.

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  155. clif, that made me a little queasy. A good policy is to always post snippets before sending someone off blindly to a car wreck like that. I'm still shuddering....

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  156. Jolly sorry but I thought you knew of their relationship.

    Next time i'll warn ya.

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  157. I SHOULD HAVE known. But I was STILL sickened.

    If they can get Fascist Franny on the ball, they'll have a hell of a threesome going.

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  158. Do NOT go to Duncetron's blog of you do not want to witness that one Jolly.

    Is that warning enough?

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  159. Do NOT go to Duncetron's blog of you do not want to witness that one Jolly.

    Is that warning enough?


    That's a warning most people seem to be following.

    You, me.... what are we, like 25% of his total hits this month?

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  160. I try to stay out of the ghettos.

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  161. Jolly the pink pajama circle jerk romper room is still as delusional as always;

    freedum fraud is laughing about,


    celebrity horse race polls to make him feel better

    but he NEVER talks about the,

    Hoe McSame is doing in individual state polls and how that adds up to electoral votes ... cause there McCain is losing.

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  162. Hell bart I read redstate to see how far the delusions have sunk.

    But I draw the line at freeperville, there are some places I don't care how they think.

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  163. Jolly Roger said...
    Do NOT go to Duncetron's blog of you do not want to witness that one Jolly.

    Is that warning enough?

    That's a warning most people seem to be following.

    You, me.... what are we, like 25% of his total hits this month?"


    Watch it JR and Bart or Willie will hate you as much as he hates me...............he hates people making him look stupid or pointing out the fact that NO ONE reads his blog.

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  164. mike, I assure you, they ALREADY hate me. I've been banned from literally hundreds of their gathering places, usually for nothing more than disputing fairy tales with facts.

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  165. If you think their hatered and vile was bad in 2006 you ain't seen nothing yet,

    If they lose it's wilderness time and reich wingers HATE the wilderness because they usually spend 40 years lost there.

    Must be an old testament thingie.

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  166. You know where they get their old tyme religion and all.

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  167. Interesting with the US government "takeover" of fannie and freddie, do you think;

    1) The housing crisis is over?

    2) The stock market rally on Monday is real or a government corporate welfare creation?

    3) Which of the home owners, stock holders or large wall street banks will see the lions share of the $800 billion which Congress passed a bill last month that gave the Treasury Department to bail out Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac?

    remember;

    Freddie and Fannie own or guarantee more than $5 trillion of mortgages.

    Within weeks, Fannie and Freddie have to refinance $225 billion in -mostly short term- debt. (Hint that is over half the total present price tag for the War in Iraq.)

    Do you think after the market lost 345 points yesterday, Paulson had any choice left?

    remember;

    This is almost single handedly erasing that loss.

    However the people who have the most to gain from this bailout is;

    1) China's central bank which owns $340 billion worth of Fannie and Freddie mortgage-backed securities.

    2) Bill Gross, who manages $830 billion since "61 percent of Gross's holdings were mortgage-backed securities as of June 30, mostly debt guaranteed by Fannie, Freddie or Ginnie Mae," according to Bloomberg.


    Corporate welfare at it's very worst.

    Next up for the bailout are the US auto makers.

    They seek Congress to approve a $50 billion loan package to embattled U.S. automakers that Detroit's Big Three claim is key to their future success.

    Add to that demand some staggering funding requirements for the Federal Deposit Insurance Corp (covering failed bank deposits)

    Over 11 so far ....just this year, but larger banks teetering on the brink

    Citibank is one of them

    The Pension Guarantee Fund (covering failed corporate pension funds) from GM Ford Chrysler, the airlines and many secondary players in each industry

    And the wing nuts wonder why we don't think they are telling the truth when they say they are for a completely FREE market completely free from ANY government intrusion?

    This is about as big an intrusion as it can get. But since it benefits the largest pigs at the trough, their is NO right wing outcry ... the wingnuts and their political front clowns only screech when the poor ask for help.

    BTW if things are this bad why aren't head rollin?

    Why aren't Wall street pigs being held for their incompetence and greed?

    Oh right Georgie is still in charge.

    This was so bad he couldn't allow it to go for four more months to pass the blame on to the next president .... which should tell you just how bad it is.

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  168. BTW John McCain claims the fundamentals of our economy are sound,

    Well one of the largest fundamentals of the entire economy was just essentially declared bankrupt by the United States Treasury.

    The entire housing industry and market is essentially in a tail spin and has been for over a year.

    The auto industry isn't very far behind.

    The airline industry is on life support.

    But John McCain says we are doing OK.

    ..... and people wonder why bart says he might have dementia?

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  169. Libs with faux moral outrage are always amusing. Where was the headline:

    How My 7-Year-Old Learned About Oral-Sex And Cigar Tricks from Bill Clinton?

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  170. Freedom Fan said...
    Libs with faux moral outrage are always amusing. Where was the headline:

    How My 7-Year-Old Learned About Oral-Sex And Cigar Tricks from Bill Clinton?.................."


    I thought it was you frickin goons that were the child molestors grampa?

    You goons need to like stay the hell away from all the little boys.

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  171. Obviously FS (Frickin Sara) is actually a right wing sock puppet, who comments here just to make Libs appear to be morally disgusting mental midgets. But I must admit that the prostitute pic is an excellent ruse.

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  172. YO freedum fraud where is you OUTRAGE the government is meddling in the stock market you hypocrite,

    typical the government resucues the big money players by "guarenteeing" the preferred stock, BUT screwing the little guy by crushing the COMMON stock, even the names tell you how the game is played.

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  173. Steven Moore is against government bailouts?

    Well he very begrudgingly FOR this one?

    Right and PIGS fly,

    At least this week on wall street after the biggest bail out since the great depression.

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  174. They should let Fannie and Freddie fail. Hell they were set up with our money. The rich took what they could got richer and left.

    Now we are taking billions more from average Americans weakening the coffers further. They don't have to shore up Fannie and Freddie for us they just have to complete the bankrupting of America.

    This is all really screwed up because we have called it all while we were ignored and this mess just continued! Oh man! Watch what happens most likely before January 20th and bush has to leave.

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  175. Clippy, I'm wit ya regarding the auto bailout. But not on Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, which are quasi-governmental anyway. They are just another example of a failed government program, which should have been the sole responsibility of the private sector.

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  176. Freedom Fan said...
    Libs with faux moral outrage are always amusing. Where was the headline:

    How My 7-Year-Old Learned About Oral-Sex And Cigar Tricks from Bill Clinton?


    No, whats amusing is you neocon boneheads who are still opining on Bill Clinton when he left office 8 years ago, and isn't even in this race.

    :|

    You guys are afraid of Obama, and well you should be.

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  177. They are just another example of a failed government program, which should have been the sole responsibility of the private sector.

    Good give the money back and let the wall Street criminals crash and burn on this one people like Bill gross who essentially threw a temper tantrum until they saved his hundreds of billions with this bailout.

    and no more breaaks for the oil cooprs or any other industry,

    Fraud YOU'll never admit the market and entire society would have crashed long ago with out the US government guarantees BUT it would have. last year with out the manipulation of interest rates to try and prop up the markets.

    This is just the most blatant example of how the right wing and it's corporate owned political minions screw the little guy everytime while they bail out the big moneyed players.

    They will hope the sheeple forget this bail out soon when they screech to privative Social security and set Wall street up to do to Social Security what it did to the housing market.

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  178. I gotta disagree Clif.

    As much as I understand the sentiment behind letting them crash and burn, what would happen to this country if the two largest mortgage banks lost everything?

    Half the deeds to peoples homes in this country could be worthless, and foriegn investors could seize peoples property.

    Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac MUST be bailed out if we are to survive as a nation.

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  179. What are the alternatives?

    Half the country should just move out of their homes into the streets?

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  180. Palin Flubs Basic Fact On Economy

    Better send whiner Phil to help her learn the basic GOPer lies here like St Johnny had his 'friend' Liar Joe help her learn the reich wing lies on foreign policy .... cause she has her lies about TROOPERGATE down real well even to the extent she is HIDING emails including her husbands from investigators.

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  181. Breaking: Kevin Ring Indicted

    Prosecutors have unsealed the long-awaited indictment against Abramoff crony Kevin Ring, according to the AP. Ring is charged with 10 counts of conspiring with Abramoff to bribe congressmen and their aides.

    Hope those congressman ain't a thinkin they are gonna win after this .....

    Well Duke Cunningham and Bob Ney have no more illusions about this and John Doolittle didn't even try this time, wonder who is gonna suddenly remember they had better things to do ......

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  182. Bart I'm just enjoying watching the reich wing eat their words on this one.

    After all THEY created it.

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  183. If Phil Gramm and his cronies and fellow travelers hadn't destroyed the restrictions on the foolish moves wall Street was prevented from making pre 2000 this could have never happened, BUT they screeched for the ability to do exactly what they did and we have the result they claimed would never happen, wall street screws up and then another government bail out of the banking industry and government has to step in and set things right, JUST like Roosevelt did in the 1930's ....

    They railed against FDR but he is looking smarter every day, and the clueless greedy reich wingers are looking more corrupt and stoopid .... cause his programs helped prevent the exact type of melt down we are currently seeing and if they hadn't been ripped out in the dark of the night in 2000 while every one was watching the TV drama Bush vs Gore, we wouldn't have been forced to bail out the very under pinning of the housing market because the fraud and criminality could have never happened.

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  184. Palin Won't Release 1100 Emails

    She's lookin' more and more just like a clone of Bush.

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  185. Over the weekend Gov. Palin said that Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac had "gotten too big and too expensive to the taxpayers."

    Only they're not even taxpayer funded. It's only the government takeover, which Sen. McCain supports, that could change that.


    They weren't before BUT they are taxpayer funded now Gov Clueless.

    This is the idiot the reich wing is hoping for a miracle from?

    quick better hide her from the evil media and only allow properly vetted talking head to qyuestion her,

    Oh right they got the GOP's fav friend Charlie Gibson to sit down and do a multi day Interview, which means he has to play NICE or he gets cut off, and BTW who gets to edit this interview?

    Wanna bet the GOer spin machine?

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  186. They really do want a theocracy;

    Ban on Political Endorsements by Pastors Targeted

    Declaring that clergy have a constitutional right to endorse political candidates from their pulpits, the socially conservative Alliance Defense Fund is recruiting several dozen pastors to do just that on Sept. 28, in defiance of Internal Revenue Service rules.

    The effort by the Arizona-based legal consortium is designed to trigger an IRS investigation that ADF lawyers would then challenge in federal court. The ultimate goal is to persuade the U.S. Supreme Court to throw out a 54-year-old ban on political endorsements by tax-exempt houses of worship.

    "For so long, there has been this cloud of intimidation over the church," ADF attorney Erik Stanley said. "It is the job of the pastors of America to debate the proper role of church in society. It's not for the government to mandate the role of church in society."


    Like Sarah Palin's paster telling people if they voted for John Kerry they would go to hell.


    They really do want a right wing controlled theocracy.

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  187. clif said...
    Bart I'm just enjoying watching the reich wing eat their words on this one.

    After all THEY created it.


    I take it you don't own a home?

    I realize they created it but laughing at them now and doing nothing would be like laughing at the captian of the Titanic as you're sinking into the cold icy sea.

    You can laugh if you want, but it won't stop you from drowning.

    Don't fall into the game of the congress, and RELISH the failing economy simply because it makes the right wing look bad.

    We have to do something now, regardless of whose fault it is.

    And if Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac sank, 5 TRILLION dollars in mortgages would be in jeopardy.

    Literally HALF the countries mortgages.

    Those of us who own homes, know what this means.

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  188. I'm not saying don't point the finger at them, but bailing out Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae is the only option at this point.

    The government takeover however, I am not sure was a good move.

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  189. I take it you don't own a home?

    Yes and it's PAID for, and I have no reason to ever move,

    I bought what I could afford and paid it off instead of investing in ponzi schemes like what ever stocks wall street was pushing like Enron Tyco or Worldcom when I bought my home, or flipping properties or other stoopuid ideas the right wing pushes.

    I did what my grandfather who lived through the Great Depression always told me, pay you bills first them give a crook your money to steal.

    I have always followed his advise and never had to think about bankruptcy or worried about how a I was gonna pay my bills.

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  190. but bailing out Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae is the only option at this point

    I know that, because the entire structure will fall if they let fannie or freddie fail ...

    I just want the reich wingers to admit it was always a government guarantee that wall street relied on at the same time they railed against that very guarantee with their false generalizations and attacks on the government while they set up the last ponzi scheme the housing sub prime criminal fraud, and the underlying reality of the right wing destruction of this economy because Freidman and Reagan wanted greed over good economic principles.

    remember FDR set up fannie as a government entity, BUT with the losing idea of NO tax raises and fighting a war the reichwingers pushed to privative fannie and created freddie to fake competition while always knowing it could NEVER be totally privatized because NO private entity could control over 6-8 trillion dollars with out controlling the markets at the same time ... that much money simply trounces other investors, so they created a supposed private organization to hold the cover for the government guarentee, sort of how banks can play "russian roulette" with other people's money and know the government will keep the game going with their guarantees while the ponzi schemes crash around them ...


    It's just pay up time in the great game of privatized profits and socialized costs to the taxpayers.

    Wall street is laughing all the way to the banks who were just saved from their own greed. and of course thinkin' of the next ponzi scheme to profit from.

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  191. The right wingers if they are honest,

    Will be eating lots of crow over this,

    Oh wait they are NEVER honest,

    Our current crop for example.

    ReplyDelete
  192. cause they will never admit why regulations were put in place in the 1930's .... because this happened before and FDR and others saw the need to prtevent exactly what is happening.

    They might admit Phil Gramm set this up with his slimy sneaky way of ripping those regulation apart just to make a little profit while knowing the costs will always be borne by the tax payers or Chinese for the moment ..... but the greed is NOT the ultimate arbitrator unelss you want this to happen time and time again.

    Which of course a few do because they just won the lottery in ways only the rich can win, the problem this is a tax payer funded lottery.

    Even if the tax payers who have to pay for it aren't even born yet

    In reality the TRUE right wing mantra should be

    liberals tax and spend, while we tax generations yet unborn and spend their money

    which would show how they plan on paying the bills they run up in the end.

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  193. BTW both chuck Todd and Stu Rothenburg are saying the campaign is 260 for Obama and McCain 232 electoral votes with Colorado, Ohio, Virgaina and New Hampshire the states which are the real battle ground states.

    If Obama wins Ohio and keeps the rest of his states he wins,

    If Obama wins Virginia and the rest of his states he wins,

    If Obama wins both Colorado and New Hampshire and keeps the rest of his states he wins,

    McCain has to win at least three out of four.

    BY 538's numbers Obama is up by
    1.4 points in Colorado,

    2.2 points in New Hampshire,

    .1 point in Ohio and

    .4 points in Virginia ......

    electoral-vote has it,

    Colorado by 2 points for Obama

    Ohio by 2 points for Obama

    New Hampshire by 1 point for Obama

    Virginia exactly tied.

    So McCain IS behind in the real polls the 50 state individual elections which set up the electoral college to elect the next president.

    This while McCain gets his post convention bounce .......

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  194. BTW if the McCain's campaign is so worried about the way the press is going to treat St Sarah;

    They could ask the Bush White House where Jeff Gannon is now a days,

    After all he helped them in sticky situations with the press didn't he?

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  195. NEW BLOG THREAD IS UP:

    Sarah Palin lied outright!

    ReplyDelete