Tuesday, December 19, 2006

LETTERS FROM IRAQ

Below is a very honest and amazing letter sent to me from SPC Timothy M. Deane. It's important to understand the kind of heroism and old-fashioned faith some of our troops have. I admire every single soldier, whether they have this kind of faith or not. But on that note please read the top comment from Human in the comment section here.

Our troops in Iraq, the deadliest war zone, are the most brave and inspiring people to me right now. Please pray for them. God Bless our troops.

With the threat of one Democratic senator suffering a stroke (Tim Johnson of South Dakota) last week, and the possibilty of a Republican Senate — I suddenly didn't feel so safe anymore. It's funny how we can go from hope to fear within seconds. Fear that mankind will self-destruct. This is what a Republican Congress would mean: the end of hope for America and all mankind. A Republican Congress means Dick Cheney would have veto power. It may sound extreme to make a statement like this, but it's how the majority "feels" right now.

Top photo: SPC Timothy Deane

Second photo is of our friend and fellow blogger Marcus "Tom Paine" and his wife Alissa, in Iraq.

The following letter is from SPC Timothy Deane. Classification: UNCLASSIFIED//FOR OFFICIAL USE ONLY

Lydia, I read your blog of the ten service members that were killed in country. The one that stood out was the mention of the one that was on his third tour. This is my third tour here as well. I came back from a injury that had me unable to walk for 90 days. I had my tendon repaired and my nerve dissected and repaired on my left foot. I came back to Iraq after healing...why?

If I can try to explain why...

1. We don't have to believe our leaders but we have to believe in our Country. Our love for our Country and our service is something we take pride in. Whether Foreign Policy is screwed up or not we have to protect our Country for whatever threat. Now, this comment can raise a few arguments I know BUT if I believe in my Country then I am willing to defend my Country. Notice, I believe in my Country even if my leaders are slightly off center.

Being in the military we are not allowed to discuss our political views and I will respect that and I don't think it's important on whether I am a Republican or Democrat (even though I am sure you know which I am). I am paid to be a medic, to save lives, not to get into a political debate with my Commander-In-Chief.

2. We continue to come over because we know others won't. This is an ongoing situation. We have folks that go AWOL and vanish on their units, we have folks that claim "conscientious objector" status after they
somehow woke up one day and said "hey, I'm not going to war", and then we have the National Guard men and women who claim the "I only joined for college". We also have entire Guard units that for some reason are
able to jockey their way out of deployments, but they and their personnel are able to remain in the Guard.

3. With being here three times you have experience. You want to share this experience with the younger soldiers or the "virgins to war". At 35 years of age I see it as my part to help those here and to ease their worries and to help them relax know that at any moment thing can and will go down hill fast. If you can learn from those who have been here before and if it helps you to stay alive and to do you mission then that is a success.

4. For some of us, like myself, being here is being able to support our families. Thanks to a poor job market or a job that only pays the status quo, by coming over here with the extra pay and the like we can keep our heads above water and make sure our families can survive. I am married with 3 beautiful children and I know that if anything does happen to me then they will be taken care of. I hate to think of anything happening but I am not the dictator of my time on earth. In the civilian side I would not be able to give my wife of 13 years and my children as good a life as they have now. Once I get back to Alabama after this tour, I return to the job I have and take a huge cut in salary. And once again I look forward to the prospect of having to work two or possibly three jobs just to stay afloat and to continue to provide for my family.

5. Family history. I come from a long line of military blood. I have had family in every major conflict since the Civil War. And due to my German heritage, I have had family on two fronts in two World Wars. Our dedication to Country and service is a way of my family saying "Thank You" to a Country that allowed us to cross the water and enter and to allow us the chance to make our lives better, brand new. From Grandfather to father to brother to sister and uncles and cousins (one cousin - William Wayne Seay gave the ultimate sacrifice in Vietnam and was awarded the Medal Of Honor) we have all given our time to our Country. At one time over here my sister, my cousin and I were all in theatre together. Some were raised to be actors, doctors and lawyers and these are noble professions. My family - Deane's and Steiner's - see our calling differently. Some 44 years ago a great man told us to ask not our Country could do for us, but what we could do for our Country. I have never nor will I ever ask of my Country to do for me, I simply give to her without question.

6. Faith moves mountains. I have Faith in my God. And I know that if anything should happen I will look forward to being in His arms and standing with Him. There is a greater place and my Lord has a place for me in it. My family will miss me, yes, BUT what a glorious day when we will be reunited in the presence of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. Faith keeps me going.

7. My family trusts and believes in me and that is all that matters. As long as I can look at my children and my wife when I get home and know I did the best that I could do and they love me, then that is all that I am after. I have nothing to prove to anyone but to my wife and babies.

8. This is my last tour. I will volunteer for no more.

Also, Please read this riveting post from Marine Philip Martin. Human

I will post excerpts from it, along with my favorite Marcus Byrne posts: Anger Management

For SPIRITUAL SOLUTIONS to the world crises, along with some amazing prayer miracles in the next few weeks, please check out RADICAL PRAYER at my other blog THE PEACEMAKERS* LIGHT OF TRUTH

You can reach my Home page at: LYDIA CORNELL

1,178 comments:

  1. Lydia - Peace to you and Yours. Thanks for the link.

    SPC Deane - Peace to you and Yours.

    It's the part "without question" that needs to be re-thought. While I greatly admire your Devotion, it has been violated in the most obscene manner. Not by us, who knew the War was based on a stack of Lies and tried to stop it, but by your CINC, Congress and the American People as a whole.

    The 1st through pure Evil, the 2nd through pure Corruption, the last through irresponsible Abdication of Citizen Responsibility.

    I've lived through it before. My own Father (Regular Army 21 years) was sent 2 times to 'Nam and participated in POW Torture and Execution. He took photos. Called 'em his "artwork". Just as he, you are not fighting for Country, but for other's Greed and Bloodlust.

    So, I do have something to prove. That The Lord gave you Free Will for a purpose. You're not an Automaton.
    You're a Child of God enhanced with the Wonderful capabilities of Reason and Love.

    The latest out of the UK removes any doubt that Iraq posed any viable threat to You, Me, our Families or Country. Whether you want to admit it or not, It's all been proven to be one Bloody Lie.

    If you don't want to listen to me, either come to my place and read what Marine Philip Martin wrote, Or just google his name and read it somewhere's else. Or click onto one of my friendly Links "Anger Management). He's a LT. in Ramadi.

    We want you back home with your Family in one piece, Mind and Body. And I must admit a selfish reason. We need you. You're the Best of the Best. And we'll need all the help we can get to set things straight, right here at Home.

    Just because you are not going to Volunteer doesn't mean you won't be "extended".

    You can help end the carnage right now. A safe and Legal way. Please consider signing the Appeal for Redress. It's your Right to do so. I beg you to look into your Heart and Pray for guidance.

    With all my Love and Adoration, Peace.

    ReplyDelete
  2. Well said, Marcus. It's not about which side you believe, ultimately, it's about believing in your country ahead of your party.

    Something the Republicans ought to learn a hard lesson about after this debacle.

    ReplyDelete
  3. Freedom Fan said...
    A person chooses his race the same way he chooses his parents. A person of mixed-race may identify more with one race or the other, but he does not get to "choose" his race.


    I asked YOU to choose his race, jackass! You say race is determined by birth characteristics, so go ahead! Is Lisa Bonet black, or white? Lenny Kravitz? Which specific birth characteristics assign them to the race you choose?

    Well, Master Racist? We're all waiting for your marvelously witty answer!

    ReplyDelete
  4. *dancing the Mexican Hat Dance around Fawnbot's DUNCE cap*

    Cmon, Master Racist, it's almost Christmas. I'm sure the baby Jesus would like to hear your decision.

    Um, by the way, you DO realize Jesus was African, dontcha? So I suggest you choose the right race... *winkwink*

    ReplyDelete
  5. As for smearing me as a "racist", I have told you many times that race is irrelevant in every important way.

    Except to classify an individual, the very definition of "bigotry", Master Racist. BY YOUR OWN WORDS, YOU HAVE TRIED AND CONVICTED YOURSELF!

    All we're doing is agreeing with you!

    :-)

    And that's a "BIG SHMILE!," Master Racist!

    ReplyDelete
  6. I think the Foole smashed his keyboard again last night, maybe someone will buy all the trolls a lifetime supply because they are gonna need it from now on.

    ReplyDelete
  7. Mike,

    Your probably right. I've seen trolls squirm on my hook before, but I've never seen one so obstinately sticking to a lie, hoping it would miraculously change into the truth.

    ReplyDelete
  8. Carl, this post wasn't from Marcus, but from Timothy Deane, SPC. The second photo is of Marcus and his wife Alissa.

    I will correct the misperception.
    Thanks.

    ReplyDelete
  9. Carl I have NOT asked the FOOLE why in 1968 HE choose to go to college INSTEAD of volunteering to go fight in Vietnam YET, BUT he did, as you pointed out aptly with your comment last night. He definately does NOT want to answer why he choose COLLEGE over defending the country at a time of WAR, just like the yellow bellied college repuks do today.

    BTW Foole YOU HAD to register for the draft in 1968, is that when you decided college over service?

    ReplyDelete
  10. See son I went into the service right out of High School, and waited to go to college until after I had served............

    Something the gutless cowards in the college repug groups around this country have NOT done....for the most part.

    If they think this battle is SO important, they should emulate the greatest generation, and forestall their plans to shoulder the burden of defending this country. This will allow them to put in practice their convictions and alleviate the heavy burden those who are doing as they have NOT yet.

    This is what the generation did during WW2 and since the wingnuts always want to compare this war to that war, they should do as those who fought and WON IT, not as they are doing NOW which is helping the US to lose it by their avoiding service.

    ReplyDelete
  11. This war has allready gone on for LONGER than WW2 with no end in sight and no chance or hope of victory or even a happy ending for that matter.

    ReplyDelete
  12. BTW Clif dont ya think GWB just did the mother of all flip flops by saying he wants a bigger military after him and Dumbsfeld were blustering for years about transforming the military into a smaller more agile force and how they supported fighting wars on the cheap with smaller than recommended forces, so it looks like GWB was for a small military, before he was for a bigger military, do you think this means he will support a draft or a tax increase to fund this bigger military and his war of CHOICE, because since he has taken over he has squandered our surplus from Clinton and there are deficits as far as the eye can see.

    ReplyDelete
  13. Mike his biggest Flip Flop of the year, intellectually at least, was his statement BEFORE the election we are winning in Iraq, and todays we are NOT winning but are not losing.

    Does the Idiot even know what winning really means...besides a parade?

    ReplyDelete
  14. Well, Lydia, he's probably said something similar...;-)

    ReplyDelete
  15. Merry Christmas, Ms. Cornell!

    Christ was a great man, but I don't believe in an anthropological god either. ;-)

    ReplyDelete
  16. The Prof is happy to report the following news:

    Goldman Sachs this year paid its chief Lloyd Blanfein 54 million in salary and bonuses!
    America!!!! What a country!!!!
    Capitalism at its best,what a heart warming story as the holidays approach.

    ReplyDelete
  17. Lets see, ONE man who was not even on the job for a year, got 54 Million Dollars, while tens of thousands of Children go to bed HUNGRY, even when their parents are working, tens of thousands of People can NOT afford adequate housing, medical care or educational opportunities for their children, you might claim we have a "great country with capitalism producing results like this, BUT Christmas is the celebration of the Birth of Jesus, which sort of makes your point hypocritical son.

    Jesus preached justice and caring for the poor NOT serving MONEY like you do.

    ReplyDelete
  18. Awww,the Prof thinks Clif is a bit jealous Blanfien.
    The Prof suggests you get up off your ass and maybe you too could make some countable money.

    ReplyDelete
  19. Does Clif think Jesus would make 54 mil a year in todays world?

    ReplyDelete
  20. prof, cliffy is an "adrenaline junkie", which is why he enjoys trying to debate Conservatives.

    Seeing his life pass before him, is such a rush for cliffy.

    Cliffy's method of debating is to endlessly declare "I served in the military! I served in the military!", just like his buddy sKerry.

    ReplyDelete
  21. Like Jesus said in Matthew;

    Lasting Treasure

    6:19 “Do not accumulate for yourselves treasures on earth, where moth and rust destroy and where thieves break in and steal. 6:20 But accumulate for yourselves treasures in heaven, where moth and rust do not destroy, and thieves do not break in and steal. 6:21 For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also.

    6:22 “The eye is the lamp of the body. If then your eye is healthy, your whole body will be full of light. 6:23 But if your eye is diseased, your whole body will be full of darkness. If then the light in you is darkness, how great is the darkness!

    6:24 “No one can serve two masters, for either he will hate the one and love the other, or he will be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve God and money.



    Seems your more about the money then the God...........

    ReplyDelete
  22. BTW FOOLE Jesus WAS OFFERED THE RULE OF THE WORLD REMEMBER SON, HE TURNED IT DOWN, JUST AS HE WOULD TURN DOWN THE MONEY AND EARTHLY RICHES TODAY.

    ReplyDelete
  23. No son I was ASKING YOU questions son, NOTHING about me, BUT WHAT YOU DID.

    Your the person who is bearing false witness here.......

    ReplyDelete
  24. What are YOU so ashamed about, you can NOT answer a couple of simple questions son?

    ReplyDelete
  25. Here's prove that lib males are very manly:

    Now come here and suck my cock, beeyatch
    -Carl

    ...SUCK A BIG ONE...
    -Clif

    cliffy and carl seem to have much in common with british gary who flits around the country playing Broke Back Mtn. as his wife brings home the bacon.

    Is it any wonder world class beauties like Ms. Cornell prefer Republicans with actual jobs?

    Apparently lib girly boys are too busy playing with each other as they collect government checks and whine about how small they are (their checks I mean, not their toy endowments of which they are very proud).

    ReplyDelete
  26. BTW son I could repost some of MY previously replies to your false generalizations which would prove you LIED today like you lied yesterday son.......

    ReplyDelete
  27. Like THIS one son;

    The Foole said;


    Well son for the last 6 years it has been much more WRONG than Right...
    -cliffy

    BTW you FORGOT THIS;

    So just as in the 60's it is very important to attempt to stop the immoral and criminal behavior of leaders like the Idiot and Dead Eye, so that bootlickers like you know that you are much more alone in you gutless and immoral approval of the immoral and criminal behavior.

    Which changes your attempt to SLANT my comments FOOLE.

    [MIS][translation: yes I never say anything positive about America, so what?]

    Sorry son but your mis-translation is as delusional as you are...because I said MUCH is wrong, and therefore much has to be done to make it right. MIS-Translate foole, but you’re just a piss-ant who wants to be seen as erudicate but is NOT.

    2) Many of these faults, like slavery -- certainly not unique to America --

    But the FACT we did means we HAVE no moral authority...
    -cliffy

    again you LEAVE something OUT;

    to severely JUDGE others Like you LOVE to do, spend much more time looking into the national mirror and clean up here, before we attempt to clean up somebody else's land.

    And this is significant, because you DISMISS the point entirely here, but as a repug Honesty is not a strong point is it son.

    [MIS][translation: America is amoral because we had slaves 150 years ago.

    No son we are amoral because we allow the results of slavery and the century of Jim Crow which followed(and some still yearn for) to fester, and build campaigns around.


    We have done nothing decent since, and as my buddies ward Churchill and Noam Chomsky claim,

    Sorry dingle berry but they are not buddies of MINE, as a matter of fact I do not know either of them. However Chomsky has some merit, Ward Churchill much less, but I'm sure God does love him anyway.


    Americans are far more eevil than nazis,


    No son I NEVER said that. Thus ANOTHER lie you have so many lies here it is incredible you think we believe anything you say anymore.

    which is why I often refer to my fellow Americans as nazis]

    No son, not my fellow Americans, but those who would tear up the constitution, something the Nazi's were never able to do(even with Prescott Bush's help). However those who emulate the tactics of Goebbels, and advocate the same societal control measures of early Nazi Germany need calling out.

    3) [America's flaws like slavery] have been corrected long ago, redeemed by the blood and tears of hundreds of thousands of our ancestors.

    No son they HAVE NOT...you’re a BIGGER BIGOT then I even thought you were, and you just do not HATE Muslims, but ALL people of color.

    Full comment which is significantly different than what you try to make it mean son;

    No son they HAVE NOT. IT is LIES just like that which means that the work to IMPROVE America is NOT done. The institutional injustices which keeps people who had their futures stolen before they were born by people who made sure their direct ancestors would have a large advantage in life, means that the corrections you claim is insufficient. The fact that MORONS like George Allen can get away in the repug party with using the word "macaca", and then LIE about knowing what it meant is testament to the lack of improvement.

    Lee Atwater apologized, which means HE knew it was wrong, and Rove continues Atwater's legacy...with no attempt by the repugs to correct his discriminatory approach to politics. The repugs still seek power with a version of the Racist Southern Strategy. And they still trek to the Racist Bob Jones U. to get their nod of approval.

    NO SON the NEEDED corrections are NOT even really begun, until thinking of giving the racist people like the fooles whop run that kind of University approval is not an option, the corrections will never be finished.

    White wash it all you want, but your not HONEST if you claim they are, either that or you’re a BIGGER BIGOT then I even thought you were, and you just do not HATE Muslims, but ALL people of color.

    [MIS][translation: America still has virtual slavery because everyone knows that it enforces institutional racial discrimination;

    Not far off in many of the ways they approach people. During Katrina, white people were getting Food and essentials to survive, but people of Color were "Just looting", and many instances of RACIAL profiling have been exposed...like the NJ state police with in the last decade. It might chide your ass, but it is the truth, that many instances of institutional discrimination exist, both in Governments (especially local) and corporations...Like Bob Evans discrimination against Black Secret Service Agents.

    the civil war never happened;

    I never said this IDIOT, but you need something for a diversionary tactic because I am a bit closer to the truth then you LIKE.

    the civil rights movement never happened;

    Yes it did FOOLE, but it is NOT finished, otherwise George Allen could NOT expect to get away with a comment like Macaca in south east Virginia in 2006.

    Ronald Reagan and George Bush43 would have not trekked to Bob Jones U, to make the point to their base that "they Know what the base expects".


    there is no such thing as affirmative action (reverse discrimination);


    There is son I never said there was not , but as a whole it is MUCH less than the discrimination people of color get DAILY, Hourly in 2006. But you seem to deny ant real discrimination even exists, because you seem to deny any remedy is necessary at all.

    I did not say what you say it is your pathetic attempt to divert the truth I posted.

    people of color are oppressed more than anywhere else on the planet;

    I was NOT talking about anywhere else on the planet...son we were discussing the USA remember. But you have to try to spin the truth because it does not look so good, if all you got is the real truth.

    Africa is a utopia by comparison.

    No son, they have suffered MORE from European Colonization than we did here in North America, but proly because we threw the Europeans OUT sooner, thus had MORE time to create a country. I will admit imperfect as it is America is better at providing for it's people than African countries.

    However you throw this out as another diversion...it is about the USA not Africa son.

    If you disagree with me and suggest that America has made astonishing progress in achieving racial equality, then you are a bigot and a racist,

    No son you just HAVE low standards for real progress, a few people of color in High places makes the vast majority living lives below the standard the majority has available to them. Real progress would be when Reagan can not run a dishonest campaign against "welfare queens", or Lee Atwater run a "willie horton" ad, and KNOW IT WILL work the base.

    It would be a place where Katherine Harris does not PROFILE voters by race to disqualify them...see those are the standards I want to see, a time when REPUGS do not even TRY STUNTS like those.


    which you obviously are anyway because you are an eevil Republican.


    Your NOT evil because you’re a deluded repug son...but in fact because you allow excuses for the Idiot you NEVER would allow Clinton. You advocate for the MORONS who allowed Dumsfeld to use a untested war strategy, and refuse to even plan for operations after combat. That is criminal because it is a neglecting of the office he holds, and was a very substantial reason SO many AMERICAN soldiers gave their Lives, or were wounded. But calls for accountability is called Unpatriotic by YOU, that is what makes you evil, you aid in the enabling of Incompetent fooles like this and aid in the criminal deaths of US military service personnel. Which in actuality is UNDERMINING the security of this country.


    True Democrats put a former KKK Kleagle into one of the most powerful positions in the Senate, but hey so what?]

    You mean Senator Robert Byrd, (grow the BALLS to say what you really mean son) who was in the CLAN in WW2 when it was the OFFICIAL POLICY of the US Government that the Military be segregated, and separate but equal was the national MEME, but as early as 1952 he realized the error of HIS ways, long before the Civil rights era, unlike Strom Thurman (who had a daughter by a black teenager [pedophile?] and HID HER for ALL OF HIS LIFE.) Or Trent Lott who said this on December 5, 2002;

    "I want to say this about my state: When Strom Thurmond ran for president, we voted for him. We're proud of it. And if the rest of the country had followed our lead, we wouldn't have had all these problems over all these years, either."

    I wonder if those problems have anything to do with the civil rights movement?

    You must mean everything has resolved itself SINCE then(2002) eh son?


    BTW foole why not RANT against a president who paid dues as a KKK member also(in His younger days) none other than Harry S Truman. But like Robert Byrd, Truman gave up on the discrimination and grew as a person, and politician. Too bad the repugs played directly to people who did not, in their creation and implementation of their vaulted "southern strategy".

    4) You do not value the remarkable achievements of your country and your fellow countrymen, past or present.

    [I value] People like Paul Hackett, who went and served, then came home to tell the rest of us IT is NOT working...
    -cliffy

    BTW you left this out why am I not surprised?);

    and the sycophants in power are LYING about it.

    Might it be because a MARINE MAJOR fresh from the battle field is not easily swiftboated...and what he says is easily verified, so you just IGNORE the truth..and lie and spin in YOUR dishonest translations.

    Other people I stated you ignored to attempt to make a dishonest point;

    People like John McCain who was swift-boated for serving by a group which HID from serving?

    People like Ann Richards who tried to OPEN doors of opportunity, not slam them shut, because you already got yours?

    People like Lydia Cornell who allow asswipes like you daily to spew your hate. While you and your fellow gutless repug sycophants deride her and her thoughts on HER blog. attack her for being a TRUE American, and asking for the truth, not the lies which historically will be revealed eventually, but if they are revealed now, maybe somebody can stop their immoral criminal behavior by Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, Rice, ET AL.
    are those who you mean son?

    which also colors your attempt at spin as DISHONEST AS USUAL.

    [translation: True I don't value Americans who have achieved great things, but I admire Americans who always criticize America like I do.]

    People like John McCain and Ann Richards did not achieve great Things?

    What does John McCain have to DO for you to consider him a great American...he fought FOR America, and was even captured, and when he was offered a chance to go home early out of a POW camp, HE REFUSED, because he would NOT leave with out ALL the prisoners leaving free.

    SON IF THAT is not the mark of a Great American...well your pathetic excuse of a hero who HID out in the national guard (cutting out early and running away when the Air Force started testing for cocaine) just does NOT cut it in MY book. People like McCain and Marine Captain Max Cleland who lost both legs and an arm when a grenade exploded in combat do however.

    5) Yours is an intrustive America which smothers its subjects in security and appoints dreary bureaucrats to take care of its subjects as if they were helpless children, not capable adults.

    People like you claimed the same thing about UNIONS in the late 1800's
    -cliffy

    Sorry son, BUT I said MUCH more than YOU want to give me credit for;

    Sorry son, people like you in the 1850's said the same thing about Slavery.

    People like you claimed the same thing about Discrimination for the first half of the 20th century.

    And people like you excused Kissinger for his war crimes in Vietnam, and Chile.

    People like you claimed the anti-war effort in the 60's did not matter.


    [MIS][Translation: people are helpless children unless union thugs force workers to allow them to "help" while extorting exorbitant union dues.]

    No son the time I mentioned about the rise of the UNION movement was when Robber Barons ran the US, and they used things LIKE child labor, and had working conditions which were criminal. You ignore that...to attempt to make a LYING repug point, what else should I expect, but LYING repug points from A LYING REPUG FOOLE.


    People like you claimed, we have made enough advances in every decade of this nations history that we did not have to criticize the remaining needs...
    -cliffy

    You forgot MORE foole, must be the pain when I post the truth about you eh foole?

    good thing they were WRONG eh FOOLE?

    [MIS][Translation: people are helpless children unless the government is there to "help" them. There can never be enough government "help" even if it means ever higher taxation.]

    Except FOOLE almost everything I posted about was where regular citizens LEAD the fight for equality and Justice, and the government was late to the change...NOT leading as you dishonestly suppose in you mistranslation

    It was citizens not the government which lead the fight against slavery in the first half of the 19th century son, so that quote celebrates the citizen NOT the government which for much of that time defended the institution of slavery (usually for political reasons).

    It was the workers of this country who fought for the RIGHT to organise...against the government which sided with the robber barons...read some HISTORY foole, federal troops were used to BREAK strikes not aid them.

    The civil rights movement fought the federal state and local governments...for decades..so that quote is not an endorsement of the actions the governments took, but you seem to be for it, with you waxing for the "good ole days"

    The anti-war movement was direct and indirect actions against the illegal policies of both the Johnson, and Nixon administrations...which means it was not PRO government or even partisan, but an acknowledgement that the Ideals of Franklin and Jefferson would live in the citizenry of this country almost 200 years after it's birth.

    So see son I said PEOPLE...NOT government which was what Kissinger represents, something YOU defend...NOT me son.

    Sorry your spin here is as HOLLOW as your covetous patriotism of flags and parades...NOT actions of patriots like those I cited.


    BTW son why NO COMMENT?

    Yours is an intrustive America which smothers its subjects in security and appoints dreary bureaucrats to take care of its subjects as if they were helpless children, not capable adults.

    Projection there eh son? Your clown sycophants, claim the need to rip up the constitution to make us safe...NOT me.

    Your the sycophant that cries we need to destroy the rights of billions to stop a few thousand bad actors.

    Your the idiot who follows the morons who created the incompetence of Homeland Insecurity, and destroyed FEMA, so that it is a laughing point instead of the Competent Department whose reaction under James Lee Witt received praise from all sides, not just a laugh line"your doing a heck of a job, Brownie"

    No way to SPIN these TRUTHS?

    They are THAT bad, that even the Foole like you have no way to spin it?

    6) Yours is an America which attempts to stamp out every hint of public religious expression.

    No son we want to OPEN it up to ALL religious expression...
    -cliffy

    More you edited out to LIE again;

    and freedoms, not just the reichwing christian approved one. We want ALL religions treated EQUALLY, as in no preference to any one particular one. I for one would rather the right followed the example of Jesus instead of the words of Falwell, Dobson, Robertson, Swaggart, Colson, and their anti CHRIST but pro American christian reichwing message

    [MIS][Translation: The ACLU really wants to encourage more religious expression in public places. They really love the Boy Scouts and have made large contributions]

    I never said ANYTHING about the ACLU, but instead advocated religious tolerance for the NATION, something even George Bush advocates. Which means we are in the curious position where I post a position I can agree with Him on, and YOU DECRY it, as you lie about what I said, and spin something I did not say.

    BTW foole the boy scouts were NOT a religion last time I checked, thus are quite irrelevant as to the debate about religious openness. They do not have a religious exemption for any faith I know of, they allow them all in. In fact son these statements can be found on their website;

    1. Jewish institutions have used the Scouting program since 1916. Today, Scouting is flourishing in Jewish communities.

    2. Scouting serves an important role in the Islamic community. Cub Scout packs, Boy Scout troops, and Venturing crews operated by Islamic organizations can be found in major cities throughout the United States.

    3. Buddhist youth have participated in Scouting for more than 75 years. Since 1920, young Buddhists in America have enjoyed the benefits of Scouting.

    4. Since 1926, Lutheran congregations have recognized the benefits to youth who participate in the Scouting program and to the congregations that provide it.

    5. Protestant churches have organized more than 26 percent of all packs, troops, and crews, making them the largest user of the Scouting program.

    6. Five hundred sixty-three Scout units are chartered by Churches of Christ, serving more than 15,000 youth.

    7. The Roman Catholic Church has used the Scouting program since the early days of the Boy Scouts of America. It is one of the most extensive users of the BSA program.

    8. Since 1920, Presbyterian congregations have recognized that the Scouting program not only renders a service to the youth but also is extremely beneficial to the congregations that act as chartered organizations.

    So FOOLE even the BOY SCOUTS of AMERICA agree with me and george, kind of makes you truly THE FOOLE doesn't it son.

    7) Yours is an America of suffocating regulations, ever more laws and more lawyers, higher taxation and lower freedom.

    ...regulations are necessary...[see below, the foole combined two separate quotes to LIE about what I actually said]
    laws , lawyers are not in and of themselves bad...
    -cliffy

    What about this son, not the spin you want, but what I posted;

    Good reichwingnut spin, regulations are necessary because of actions LIKE Enron, Tyco, Worldcom, Halliburton, Exxon, BP, and many other corporations and people to get everything they can with NO morality but the BOTTOM line. Regulations seek to give people, the environment, nontraditional cultures, minorities women children the same rights as the bottom line.

    AND:

    Sorry son, but you are the FOOLE here, because laws , lawyers are not in and of themselves bad, but you reichwingnut PNAC neo-con repugs use a generalisation like this to attempt to demonise things which prevent you from tasking immoral advantage of others even if it is not completely criminal. But you will continue to use such sweeping generalisations with not true facts. Because it is your attempt to make a victim out of the perpetrator, and decry the cost of the rights of those who do not empty their pockets for you clowns.

    [MIS][Translation: people are helpless children unless the government is there protect them with lots of regulations, laws and armies of lawyers. The more the better. Corporations are evil and will poison us and kill our children unless the government "helps" us.]

    Isn't your helpless spin EXACTLY what The PNAC neo-con repug clown posse spews every day to RIP up the constitution?

    Isn't their argument "If we do not give up rights to them, and allow them to do with prisoners as they please, we ARE NOT SAFE FROM TERRORISTS?"

    As for corporations who are NOT responsible, well Hooker Chemicals created Love Canal, NOT the government, it was this environmental fiasco which created the need for a clean up fund...as it was JUST the tip of the iceberg of corporate pollution. BTW son it is NOT Limited to the USA or even Capitalistic Corporations, but the soviet Union left Many polluted sites in East Germany and former Warsaw pact nations as they retreated into the Borders of the USSR. And places like Chernobyl and Three mile Island do REQUIRE regulations...both to try to prevent them, and to clean them up if the unthinkable happens.

    Love Canal, Three mile Island, and Chernobyl illustrate the need of the people to have somebody who does not have a bottom line in there for them. FOOLES like you think Corporations Like Enron, Tyco, Worldcom, Halliburton, Exxon, BP, are never Guilty for things LIKE the Exxon Valdeez, Gouging Electric Rate payers in California, Bilking Stock Owners, Ignoring Environmental Regulations until they are forced to follow them.

    Fooles like you would turn back the clock to the 1880's, but fortunately progressives and MOST people will NOT allow that.

    You forgot to Lie and Spin about this. I wonder why...couldn't spin the truth here either?

    9) Your America is simply a place where "citizens of the world dwell" without any shared values -- an empty shell of its former greatness.

    Former "greatness"...[endless litany of evil deeds]
    -cliffy

    [MIS][Translation: Former "greatness" my ass. Don't make me laugh. America is thoroughly eevil. Haven't you been paying attention? How many more evil things must I enumerate? I have these eevil things memorized and search for more every day, but please don't say I "hate" America, or I will be forced to call you a "bigot" again, you bigot.]

    Former "greatness" which is it son, slavery, the discrimination of all the immigrants from Ireland, Germany, Italy, Eastern Europe and Asia? Or the child labor, which was stopped by laws and regulations you decry? Howe about the Robber Barons of old who did "economic impact studies" and decided it was cheaper to pay a paltry death benefit, that install safety equipment, another regulation which you decry. Or the support of Foreign dictators Like Somoza, Noriega, The Shah, Pinochet, Diem, Suarto, Marcos, among others. or the good ole times of JIM CROW, that the America you long for son?

    Instead of one which actually values PEOPLE more than the dollar, something which you ridicule.

    You want to create a Disney history of America, instead of admitting the TRUTH. And when ever it is pointed out to w repug like you that everybody has NOT had a great experience here, you CLOWNS want to go all”love it or leave it” instead of admitting that there were major problems which are not resolved, thus MUCH remains to be done to fulfill the aspirations of it’s founders. You clowns want to live in your never-never land version where if your doing OK, everything is just great, and those who do not think so are...Unpatriotic, hate America and want it to fail. Instead of admitting we have slightly higher aspirations for the county I love than YOU DO FOOLE. I actually expect more out of the country that the world used to look UP TO, than you obviously do. I want it to live up to what the politicians say it is or could be, not what you greedy repugs drag it down to. America is much more than the caricature you want to propagate to US, it is not all you claim it to be presently, but could be greater than you want to admit. Because it could actually offer real equality and honor all not just those with money or fame. And might even be able of a country Christ would be proud of having invoke HIS name as it’s inspiration.

    Yours is an America which fails to lead and thus fails to remain a world leader.

    Leading is not the same as ILLEGALLY invading a country on lies, and then ignoring the disaster until it is a Fiasco. Leading is NOT DICTATING. Leading is not cherry picked Intel. Leading is NOT limiting rights to a very small religious sect, while immorally forcing other nations to accept that dogma as the basis of foreign aid. Leading is not attacking the international agencies, because you can not dictate to all the world what you want.

    But then again you clowns do not want to lead, you want to dictate.

    It is an America which talks endlessly in the United Nations and appeases tyrants and other enemies of freedom.

    Tyrants like Saddam which Reagan and Bush41, not only appeased, but aided in his first decade of lawlessness.

    Tyrants like Pinochet who is on trial in Chile for war crimes when he seized power in a CIA aided coup

    Tyrants like Diem in south Vietnam, Marcos in the Philippines, The Shah in Iran, Suharto in Indonesia, Somoza in Nicaragua, King Saud in Saudi Arabia, Musharraf in Pakistan, P.W. Bothain South Africa, all enemies of freedom SUPPORTED by the USA you wail longingly for son.

    The America I love is the real America,

    No son it is a fairyland reality that NEVER existed except in your mind, and the spin of the repugs who want to turn back the clock to an America which excluded many and allowed the rich and powerful much more free reign.

    the one established upon the hopes and dreams of our founding fathers and enshrined in the U.S. Constitution.

    Which you clowns want to tear up now. The revolutionaries would decry your pathetic attempt to steal their strong support of freedom to support the anti-freedom policies of The Idiot and the PNAC neo-con repug clown posse. Their dreams are NOT what you sycophants push for but the antithesis of those dreams. but LYING is one of your MORE natural traits when you post here son.

    The American I love is Reagan's shining city on a hill, which is free, prosperous and happy.

    Too bad the results of his policies and those of his successors have FAILED to even come close. You repugs are great at painting a mental picture, but SUCK at making it a reality, usually because you deny the actions which would actually lead to the results you claim to be for. Reagan was a great actor, but did not really set the stage for all Americans to live in the dream city you clowns claim to be for.

    SINCE you ignored all this, I have to ascertain you agree with these statements of mine, thank you for giving up on these delusions son.



    8) [America] does not oppress other countries, but rather serves as a beacon which lights the way so that others around the world might similarly enjoy life in abundance.

    YOU ARE KIDDING ...right. you have to be kidding here, because that is what you are for.
    -cliffy

    But as usual you leave out something to attempt a dishonest spin;

    Oppression and bombs, killings and illegal renditions for dogmatic purposes. You are delusional if you think we even come close to accepting your Orwellian lies here son.

    [MIS][Translation: Well you Republicans are oppressing Iraq, which was formerly ruled by that benevolent dictator and my personal hero, Saddam Hussein.]

    Sorry but THAT is NOT what I said foole, but your dishonest lying spin...as usual

    You republicans oppressed the people of IRAQ since Mar 2003, Saddam oppressed them before that, remember I fought in a war against him, unlike YOU. He is NO hero to me, but an Iraqi version of the Idiot in Chief, who wants the kind of power Saddam used to have. Saddam was just the Iraqi decider.



    By lowering the standard of living for millions here while sending factories and companies to slave labor wage countries...to boost the bottom line at the expense of both groups of people.
    -cliffy

    [MIS][Translation: Free enterprise doesn't work. This is why we need to nationalize all American industry, control our economy like castro, and stamp out this globalization nonsense.]

    Not what I said FOOLE, unless you think free enterprise is about LOWER STANDARDS. Instead of aiding everyone to RISE in their living conditions. I never even came close to you asinine statement about nationalization.....that is a repug strawman you tout but since I did not say it...YOU LIE about it. I am for raising the living conditions around this planet, and have traveled quite a few places. 1880's capitalism is NOT what anybody on this planet needs, but is what the Corporations are really looking for, places like China, Mexico, Bangladesh, Thailand, and South America. Even places Like the Marianas a US protectorate, has been shielded by REPUGS like Delay, and Abramoff from the conditions that all US workers EXPECT to have provided when they show up for work. You decry the quest for aiding the downtrodden and poor of the planet...and then question the patriotism of those who do, EVEN though that was WHAT Jesus commanded us to do.

    Who is the REAL anti-christ person here? I am for sending Christ’s principles into the workplace, why do you OPPOSE it so viciously? WAS JESUS CHRIST THAT BAD?
    Son you forgot to comment HERE;

    The America I love is the one which honors truth,

    Then it DOES not include George W Bush, Richard Cheney, Donald Rumsfeld, Karl Rove, and the rest of the current crop of repug operators, because instead of truth, we get LIES, spin, distractions and distortions. These ARE NOT TRUTH

    You MUST agree here also...

    courage,

    Leave the 102nd barking chicken hawk brigade out here son.

    And here, we agree again eh son?

    And Here son;

    and the confident, dynamic spirit of individual responsibility.

    Except NOBODY in DC is being held accountable, not the Idiot, Dead Eye, especially not Dumsfeld, or the PNAC neo-con repug clown posse, who pass the buck. Accountability is in dire need in DC. But the rubber-stamp repug lead congress is no where near there, and the Press is just starting to call for accountability 6 years after the incompetence began.

    Your as delusional as ever FOOLE, and you have proved it HERE son,[a second time]

    ReplyDelete
  28. Or this one son....

    The Foole said;

    1. Powerful and Continuing Nationalism
    Fascist regimes tend to make constant use of patriotic mottos, slogans, symbols, songs, and other paraphernalia. Flags are seen everywhere, as are flag symbols on clothing and in public displays.

    [Translation:


    The Fooles Spin, generalizations, and misdefinitions...


    Apparently our brave troops, who defeated uber-fascist Hitler, were themselves probably fascist because they were patriotic Americans.


    No stupid they DID not JUST wrap themselves in the SYMBOLS, instead they worn the uniforms, and actually did the work of stopping the LAST group of wanna be fascist dictators.


    Displaying a flag is a symbol that someone loves his country, and the U.S. and other evil western countries are not worthy of such recognition.

    There is a difference between displaying the FLAG, and claiming the sole right to describe how to display it, REMEMBER you idiot vitriolic attacks on KIRK 12 son?


    Flag-waving is considered very un-cool by the Liberal elite, who are still bummed that the Communism thing didn’t work out.

    Sorry son, BUT unlike YOUR lie, they and I fly the flag...I even have a FLAG on My car, and Motorcycle....but you would NEVER admit that we PROGRESSIVES are JUST as patriotic as YOU CLAIM to be.


    So if you wave a flag, or recite the Pledge of Allegiance or sing our national anthem, then you might be a fascist.]

    Only in your DELUDED spin, and dishonest rendering of Mikes statement, but that is the usual repug approach to truth, lie about it, spin it with a FALSE STRAWMAN which has NO real comparison to real PEOPLE.


    2. Disdain for the Recognition of Human Rights
    Because of fear of enemies and the need for security, the people in fascist regimes are persuaded that human rights can be ignored in certain cases because of “need.” The people tend to look the other way or even approve of torture, summary executions, assassinations, long incarcerations of prisoners, etc.

    [Translation: If you think the events at Abu Ghraib prison were appalling,


    Most of the HUMAN race does son.

    but doubt that some gal putting panties-on-the-head of terrorists

    See the DISHONEST spin, NO mention of the man who was attached to wires and shocked with electricity, no mention of the attack of prisoners with personal who had the duty to SAFE-gaurd the prisoners Assaulting them while the prisoners were handcuffed. No mention of naked dog piles of prisoners, or forced masturbation. And NO mention of water boarding, or the FACT that US personnel were convicted BY THE US MILITARY in courts marital...FOR CRIMES committed during a time of war.


    warranted 32 consecutive New York Times front page articles, then you might be a fascist.]

    Free expression son...and reporting to the American people what was happening with the TAX dollars Bush took and How he was allowing it to be spent. And YES I would say a large scale crime which this HAS become with MULTIPLE convictions, and even general officers reprimanded did deserve what ever press it took to fully explain what happened.





    3. Identification of Enemies/Scapegoats as a Unifying Cause
    The people are rallied into a unifying patriotic frenzy over the need to eliminate a perceived common threat or foe: racial, ethnic or religious minorities; liberals; communists; socialists, terrorists, etc.

    [Translation: Some sophisticated Liberals hold that terrorists attacking the U.S. was deserved—


    very FEW...no body HERE son..try some better spin,

    that it simply represented a case of “chickens coming home to roost” in repayment for all the “evil” the U.S. has done over the years.

    BLOWBACK is a fact...the actions of the terrorists is NOT justified...but some part of the anger of the arab street that fuels the terrorists IS. And if we actually want to eliminate terrorist, we MUST address the underlying reasons for the anger and resentment that the terrorists MINE for recruits, at the same time we fight the terrorist.

    After the attack, a bogus “perceived common threat”, President Bush said:
    Our nation -- this generation -- will lift a dark threat of violence from our people and our future. We will rally the world to this cause by our efforts, by our courage. We will not tire, we will not falter, and we will not fail.
    If you cheered when Dubya promised this, then you might be a fascist in the throes of a patriotic frenzy.]


    Oh now you want to claim the overwhelming majority of the Us of a and world who stood behind the president after 9-11, and CHEERED his going after Bin Laden. It was not the Liberals, who Let Osama escape, or said he did not think about him much. We were ALL for getting OSAMA who attack us. NOT letting Osama escape, then diverting the military assets of the US by going after a person vile and horrible in his own right, BUT not the person who attacked us. And It was Bush ET AL who distorted the facts..even spreading dishonest spin and assertions they KNEW were not true. And they did this WITH out a plan for success, even going so far as having Donald Rumsfeld refusing to plan for the day after combat ended..even though that day was ordained when the first shot was fired. Speeches DO NOT WIN WARS son.

    4. Supremacy of the Military
    Even when there are widespread domestic problems, the military is given a disproportionate amount of government funding, and the domestic agenda is neglected. Soldiers and military service are glamorized.

    [Translation: The military is evil;


    No son it is being USED for evil purposes.

    confiscatory transfer payments from achievers to full-time-Oprah-watchers represent the pinnacle to which a civilization may aspire.

    Nice UNTRUE generalization of a nonexisting liberal position.


    So if you favor a strong military or object to major universities from Harvard to Berkeley banning military recruiters or ROTC on campus, then you might be a fascist.]

    Not true..another dishonest DISTORTION. More Liberals running as DEMOCRATS who actually served in Iraq destroy that LIE. It is the common assertion of the Chicken hawk...republican..who advocates something they were NOT willing to do themselves when it was their TURN...people like Dick (5 deferments) Cheney, Rush (anal hair) Limbaugh

    5. Rampant Sexism
    The governments of fascist nations tend to be almost exclusively male-dominated. Under fascist regimes, traditional gender roles are made more rigid. Opposition to abortion is high, as is homophobia and anti-gay legislation and national policy.

    [Translation: If you believe that a human life begins at conception,


    Then Keep your beliefs and Live by them...but DO NOT take the freedom of another to live by their belief. Just because you want to accept an extreme view of abortion, it does not mean others should have to LIVE under your repression of their RIGHTS as expressed by the Supreme Court of the United States.

    that the sacrament of marriage exists between a man and woman to provide a stable environment for raising children,

    Too bad for you even the bible does not totally support this limited definition...it has marriages of more than one wife to ONE man....and that is not what should be the limiting factor ...religios belief on one should NOT restrict the freedoms and rights of another.

    and that the traditional family is in dire trouble and deserves protection from the Liberal political agenda, then you might be a fascist.]

    In trouble by number one...DIVORCE...you know , the institutionalized and legalized response of this society, to the demands of many people(many religious people at that) to destroy a marriage they NO longer want. THAT IS WAHT SI THE MOST DANGEROUS

    6. Controlled Mass Media
    Sometimes the media are directly controlled by the government, but in other cases, the media are indirectly controlled by government regulation, or sympathetic media spokespeople and executives. Censorship, especially in war time, is very common.

    [Translation: Any news source which departs from the New York Times or PBS Liberal agenda is probably controlled by evil Republican corporations. If you criticize the anointed folks of the mainstream media, then you are attempting censorship, and you might be a fascist.]

    7. Obsession with National Security
    Fear is used as a motivational tool by the government over the masses.

    [Translation: Just like Michael Moore says, the World Trade Center was destroyed by Bush so he could invade Afghanistan and Iraq. If you believe that terrorists are real, then you might be a fascist.]

    8. Religion and Government are Intertwined
    Governments in fascist nations tend to use the most common religion in the nation as a tool to manipulate public opinion. Religious rhetoric and terminology is common from government leaders, even when the major tenets of the religion are diametrically opposed to the government's policies or actions.

    [Translation:
    …the greatest threat to our freedom lies not in some mosque in Mecca, but in a simple church in the Bible belt. The time has come for all patriotic Americans to unite under a common cause: getting rid of the Christians…Their backwards, outdated belief system is based on unwavering moral absolutes, which only alienate those enlightened Americans who have no morals at all. Ironically, these so-called "morals" Christians claim to possess aren't even true morals, as they stem not from a Noam Chomsky pamphlet or a Michael Moore film - but from some silly old book they found in a motel room dresser. -Doglip All-Sader
    So if you are a Jew or Christian or someone who fails, to embrace the secular humanist agenda as championed by the ACLU, then you might be a fascist.]

    9. Corporate Power is Protected
    The industrial and business aristocracy of a fascist nation often are the ones who put the government leaders into power, creating a mutually beneficial business/government relationship and power elite.

    [Translation: Corporations and the free market economy are evil, as are corporate contributions to political action committees. Only contributions from lawyers and labor unions should be allowed. If you own a share of stock in a corporation, or work for a corporation, or buy anything from a corporation, then you might be a fascist.]

    10. Labor Power is Suppressed
    Because the organizing power of labor is the only real threat to a fascist government, labor unions are either eliminated entirely, or are severely suppressed.

    [Translation: If you fail to acquiesce to every union demand for exorbitant wages, bloated pensions, or lower productivity; if you believe that unions destroy jobs by driving them into foreign countries; if you believe that every person has the right to choose whether to join a union or pay dues for political purposes, then you might be a fascist.]

    11. Disdain for Intellectuals and the Arts
    Fascist nations tend to promote and tolerate open hostility to higher education, and academia. It is not uncommon for professors and other academics to be censored or even arrested. Free expression in the arts is openly attacked, and governments often refuse to fund the arts.

    [Translation: As history will attest, Hitler’s failure to fund the arts was his most egregious error. So don’t dare protest when taxpayer money goes to fund the piss-Christ or feces-smeared-Virgin-Mary “art” exhibits. And if you do, or if you protest when taxpayer funds are used to bankroll vicious America-haters like tenured college professor Ward Churchill, then you might be a fascist.]

    12. Obsession with Crime and Punishment
    Under fascist regimes, the police are given almost limitless power to enforce laws. The people are often willing to overlook police abuses and even forego civil liberties in the name of patriotism. There is often a national police force with virtually unlimited power in fascist nations.

    [Translation: If you favor three strikes laws for repeat violent offenders, life or chemical castration for child molesters, and the death penalty for murderers, then you might be a fascist.]

    13. Rampant Cronyism and Corruption
    Fascist regimes almost always are governed by groups of friends and associates who appoint each other to government positions and use governmental power and authority to protect their friends from accountability. It is not uncommon in fascist regimes for national resources and even treasures to be appropriated or even outright stolen by government leaders.

    [Translation: Halliburton is evil because…because…uh well Halliburton, Halliburton. If you don’t believe Halliburton is evil and Cheney is their stooge, then you might be a fascist.]

    14. Fraudulent Elections
    Sometimes elections in fascist nations are a complete sham. Other times elections are manipulated by smear campaigns against or even assassination of opposition candidates, use of legislation to control voting numbers or political district boundaries, and manipulation of the media. Fascist nations also typically use their judiciaries to manipulate or control elections.

    [Translation: Bush stole the election…actually both of them. If you don’t believe this or if you voted for Bush, then you might be a fascist.]

    [15. Firearm Confiscation.
    Um, actually I added this item to the list because Laurence W. Britt seemed to over-look it despite his extensive “analysis of seven regimes which reveals fourteen common threads”. The Nazi Weapons Law of 1938 was used together with inherited registration lists to seize privately held firearms . Firearms ownership was restricted to Nazi party members. Gun Control's Nazi Connection

    Translation: Guns are a scary right-wing obsession; my Liberal buddies and I don’t like them, so I have omitted the fascists’ consistent gun confiscation pattern from my research. Hopefully, no one will notice that this omission makes my work look sloppy and/or biased.]


    Fascism is utterly disgusting; no Conservative would ever allow his country to be taken over by fascists. Perhaps the only thing almost worse than actually being a fascist, is falsely accusing someone of being one. To do so trivializes the horror perpetrated by real fascists and minimizes the honorable sacrifices of those who oppose tyranny--whatever it is called--wherever it raises its ugly head.

    ReplyDelete
  29. So as MY last two POSTS demonstrate son

    YOU LIE


    As YOU say son;

    Quod erat demonstratum

    ReplyDelete
  30. It must suck to be ashamed of your past and be PROVEN a LIAR on the same day.

    But The FOOLE does keep coming back for MORE shame day after day, whether Carl who has utterly destroyed his BIGOTED rants for the last couple of Days or BY Worfeus who runs circles around the FOOLES juvenile rants or the rest of us who show the MORON for what he really is, A LARGE MOUTH bigot who has LITTLE real facts or ability to actually debate his bigoted neo-con position.

    ReplyDelete
  31. Stick to being a whiny, weaselly, wimpy, CPA son, and go back to the hole you keep running off and hide in when you get tired of getting handed your ass daily son.

    ReplyDelete
  32. The Prof has an idea for Clif:

    Why dont you utilize that sparkling brilliant intellect you flash here on an almost hourly basis,go out into the private sector (be sure to mention youre former military)catch on with a Goldman Sachs like company,with your talents you will be making millions in no time flat.Then donate all your earnings to feed the hungry,pay for some health care,hell,pay some heating bills.

    Just think,if you could accomplish this it would mean so much more then just sitting behind your keyboard 18 hours a day dishing out drivel.

    What do think of the Profs idea?

    ReplyDelete
  33. I think the prof has his head up the prof's ass.

    ReplyDelete
  34. Because who the hell would want to work for the MONEY grubbing people who think 54 million while thousands go hungry is OK, NOT ME son.

    They work to undercut the pay of the very people who are going homeless and hungry, destroy lives with financial moves to enrich themselves, and egg idiots like Bush ET Al on for wars of conquest for profit.

    Not what I want to spend MY life doing son.

    ReplyDelete
  35. Your Idea to go work for the people who are responsible for the economic inequality of this country and the world is as asinine as you idiotic idea of telling people who OPPOSE the war go aid the military in fighting it.

    ReplyDelete
  36. Hey ANOTHER bush Flip Flop; and one where he flipped to John Kerry's position during the 2004 campaign...TOO SWEET.

    FLASHBACK: Bush Said Kerry Proposal to Increase Size of Military Would Make The Country ‘Less Safe’

    Yesterday, President Bush announced his intention to increase the “overall size” of the Army, acknowledging that the current forces were “stressed.” The Washington Post reports he’s considering an increase of 50,000-70,000 troops.

    On June 3, 2004, Sen. John Kerry (D-MA) — campaigning for the presidency — proposed expanding the Army by 40,000 troops. Bush quickly slammed the proposal as unnecessary and counter-productive:

    Bush’s campaign manager, Ken Mehlman, said Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld already has authorized 30,000 more troops through extended tours and new recruitment. He said the country would be “less safe” under Kerry’s approach.

    In a news release, Kerry explained the problem with the Bush approach:

    The Bush administration is relying on temporary solutions including “Stop Loss” orders, recalling the Individual Ready Reserve and extending tours to meet our commitments. These temporary measures have increased the burden on our troops and their families without addressing the underlying reality: we need more troops.

    As recently as six months ago, President Bush was sticking to his guns. From a June 14, 2006, Statement of Administration Police:

    The Administration opposes increases in minimum active Army and Marine Corps end strengths in Title IV, because they could require DoD to maintain a higher personnel level than is needed. The restructuring of the Army and the Marine Corps, plus other initiatives, is enabling our military to get more warfighting capability from current end strength.

    This “restructuring” was a central part of Rumsfeld’s efforts to make the military a “more modern force.” Bush cited those efforts as a key reason why he believed Rumsfeld was one of the finest defense secretaries in history.


    It MUST burn the decider to have to decide to do exactly what John Kerry proposed 2 years ago.

    ReplyDelete
  37. Anonymous12:12 PM

    That first post above, by "human", was amazing.

    Beautifully written and such clarity.

    Thats one of the best posts I've ever read.

    ReplyDelete
  38. Anonymous12:29 PM

    For those of you who are still think like George W Bush, that evolution is merely an "interesting theory", listen up.

    A VIRGIN female Komodo dragon in the London Zoo just impregnated HERSELF, fertilizing her own eggs.

    Irrefutable proof that evolution finds a way to create life.

    But you guys keep teaching "creationism" in school to your kids. It will make it easy for the rest of us to get jobs.

    ReplyDelete
  39. Anonymous12:40 PM

    Someone please explain something else to me about President Bush.

    The day before the November elections President Bush said with regards to the war in Iraq, "absolutely we're winning".

    However yesterday he said ""We're not winning".

    Which is it Mr President?

    Were you lying then or now?

    Weeks ago we're "absolutely winning", and now "we're not winning".

    How do the republicans deal with these clearly contradictory statements?

    ReplyDelete
  40. Anonymous12:42 PM

    Someone please explain something else to me about President Bush.

    The day before the November elections President Bush said with regards to the war in Iraq, "absolutely we're winning".

    However yesterday he said ""We're not winning".

    Which is it Mr President?

    Were you lying then or now?

    Weeks ago we're "absolutely winning", and now "we're not winning".

    How do the republicans deal with these clearly contradictory statements?

    ReplyDelete
  41. Creationism is the only answer to human life.
    God created the World 6000 years ago, not billions like most people believe.
    God creates human life within the woman, by creating the spirit. He creates the Love we are to have to give to all those in the world

    ReplyDelete
  42. People never came from the apes, or chimps, like evolutionists would have you believe.

    God created the animals on the fifth day, in order to create humans on the sixth, He would give us all the capabilities to show Love to one another

    ReplyDelete
  43. Freedom Fan said...
    Here's prove that lib males are very manly:


    Yeah, real manly stuff there, Master Racist, you and your fag bashing.

    So how's that chink what's banging your wife?

    ReplyDelete
  44. Prof. Chaos said...
    The Prof is happy to report the following news:

    Goldman Sachs this year paid its chief Lloyd Blanfein 54 million in salary and bonuses!
    America!!!! What a country!!!!
    Capitalism at its best,what a heart warming story as the holidays approach.


    That's nothing. Saddam Hussein earned billions off the free market economy of Iraq...please! If you're going to laud something, go all out!

    ReplyDelete
  45. Prof. Chaos said...
    Does Clif think Jesus would make 54 mil a year in todays world?


    Sure! Just look what the Catholic Church alone makes!

    Idjit.

    ReplyDelete
  46. Freedom Fan said...
    Merry Christmas, Ms. Cornell!

    Christ was a great man, but I don't believe in god either. ;-)


    Fixed yer post, Fawnbot...

    ReplyDelete
  47. Oh....and "Big Shmile! Big Shmile!", Master Racist!

    ReplyDelete
  48. clippy said...
    People never came from the apes


    No one ever said you were a person. I got you pegged somewhere as bit above pond scum and slightly lower than an earmite.

    ReplyDelete
  49. Worf,

    Of course they're consistent!

    Why, the situation *changed* as soon as the Democrats got subpoena power!

    ReplyDelete
  50. Perfesser Carl asks...

    When is Professional Kayakass going to answer this?

    Perfesser Carl is curious about how Prof Kayakass can defend an anti-Semite who believes in the destruction of Israel and thinks the Holocaust was made up, while deploring another who believes the same thing?

    Is Prof Kayakass a coward, or a self-hating jew? Is Prof Kayakass really Iranian?

    ReplyDelete
  51. Perfesser Carl asks...

    Why won't the Master Racist answer a simple question?

    Carl said...
    Freedom Fan said...
    A person chooses his race the same way he chooses his parents. A person of mixed-race may identify more with one race or the other, but he does not get to "choose" his race.


    I asked YOU to choose his race, jackass! You say race is determined by birth characteristics, so go ahead! Is Lisa Bonet black, or white? Lenny Kravitz? Which specific birth characteristics assign them to the race you choose?

    Well, Master Racist? We're all waiting for your marvelously witty answer!


    Well, Master Racist? Or is the bootblack making your head spin? Simple question: If race is genetically determined, and someone is half-black and half-white, what race is he????

    Because we BOTH know "race" is not just about what you're born with, but what you learn.

    Which is your case, is probably a bad thing, but then again, you're a born loser.

    ReplyDelete
  52. CHRISTMAS WORFEUS said...
    For those of you who are still think like George W Bush, that evolution is merely an "interesting theory", listen up.

    A VIRGIN female Komodo dragon in the London Zoo just impregnated HERSELF, fertilizing her own eggs.


    Was there a big star in the East?

    ReplyDelete
  53. clippy said...

    God created the animals on the fifth day


    No I didn't.

    ReplyDelete
  54. Just curious, Clippy, Professional Kayakass, and Fawnbot:

    Did your mom decide to do her Kegels during your deliveries? I figure something must have compacted your brains into microcephalous little peanuts...

    ReplyDelete
  55. clippy said...
    Carl are you a yid?


    Hmmmm...lemme see...um, no. Why? Are you looking to gas one?

    ReplyDelete
  56. Carl,

    You are the Devils creation

    Carl I wish you would go to Iraq and DIE already!

    ReplyDelete
  57. Carl is an Iraqi...dickheads who started this whole mess

    ReplyDelete
  58. clippy said...
    Carl,

    You are the Devils creation

    Carl I wish you would go to Iraq and DIE already!


    That's no way to talk to the man who's going to get you into heaven, ClipShit.

    ReplyDelete
  59. Carl,

    I love all people, but you...I wish we all can gas you.

    ReplyDelete
  60. Anonymous1:40 PM

    clippy said...
    Creationism is the only answer to human life


    Lol.

    Correction.

    Creationism is the only answer to human life that your tiny brain can absorb.

    Fortunately, for the rest of us, evolution evolved our brains.

    ReplyDelete
  61. What Passes For Brilliance From The White Ring Of This Country

    clippy said...
    Carl is an Iraqi...dickheads who started this whole mess


    Yea. Had nothing to do with us arming Saddam Hussein with WMDs, nooooooooooooooooooooo, who us? It's obviously the fault of the people we're slaughtering by the thousands each month. Yah huh!

    ReplyDelete
  62. clippy said...
    Carl,

    I love all people, but you...I wish we all can gas you.


    Yea, but you stopped eating beans...

    ReplyDelete
  63. Clippy, seriously...how old are you, anyway?

    Cuz why do I keep hearing your mom calling you to go wash your hands before supper?

    ReplyDelete
  64. Anonymous1:42 PM

    Lippy said...

    God created the World 6000 years ago

    Hmmmm, than how do you explain 650,000 years of permafrost?

    :|

    ReplyDelete
  65. Worf,

    I'm thinking ol' Clippy here thinks that the entrance to heaven is a guest spot on Jeopardy...

    ReplyDelete
  66. clippy said...
    Carl you are the one that takes people to hell.


    Nah. I *send* them.

    Or put them through it.

    Depends on how hungover I am...or whether I'm in a good mood...or if I got laid the night before...or if I missed a ball game on TV...

    ReplyDelete
  67. Worf,

    You don't understand the mechanics of life, and I don't have the time right now to explain it to you.

    ReplyDelete
  68. clippy said...
    You don't understand the mechanics of life, and I don't have the time right now to explain it to you.


    Hell, son, you don't understand the mechanics of a paper AIRPLANE, much less "life"....BWAHAHAAHAHH!!!!!

    ReplyDelete
  69. Carl beats his Mother, does drugs and molests kids.

    ReplyDelete
  70. Oh? And what website was that, Clippy?

    Yes. I am an addict. I get high on kicking little kids like you in their asses...

    ReplyDelete
  71. Carl you started this war in Iraq

    ReplyDelete
  72. Carl you Iraqi prick

    ReplyDelete
  73. Worf,

    Whaddya think? Sixth grade? Fifth?

    Homeschooled?

    ReplyDelete
  74. clippy said...
    Carl you started this war in Iraq


    Good! Maybe the Secret Service will start taking me seriously. I really WILL leave a flaming bag of Clippy poop on Bush's doorstep! I swear!

    ReplyDelete
  75. Carl is so stupid, the son of a BITCH, doesn't even know he has a website. What a waste of human life you are...warmongerer

    ReplyDelete
  76. No, Clippy...I was asking *which* website?

    And no, I'm not your brother!

    ReplyDelete
  77. Funny...that page doesn't have my picture on it...neither do any of the numerous places I write for...you know, my internationally syndicated column?

    ReplyDelete
  78. Carl,

    I would love to see Bush come out and kick your scrawny little ass...remember I saw that ugly pic of yours.

    ReplyDelete
  79. Carl,

    When Bush speaks to you, I better hear you say; yes sir...or Carl I will beat your ass myself and have George watch...while you scream for mercy.

    ReplyDelete
  80. Carl and Marcus are lovers.

    ReplyDelete
  81. That all goes for Worf and Mike too..ass beatings all around...that's what the doctor ordered...YES SIR...remember that Worf... you too pussy Mike

    ReplyDelete
  82. I win Carl...have a Merry CHRISTmas....never replace this name with an X...See ya later!

    ReplyDelete
  83. clippy said...
    I win Carl


    Please. You couldn't afford the raffle ticket.

    Happy Holidays, Clippy! And have a very SeXmas!

    ReplyDelete
  84. Anonymous2:06 PM

    You know what's interesting about the Mormons? Their ability to come to grips with science and the realities around them.

    Joesph Feilding Smith, one of the early Mormon prophets fancied himself somewhat of an expert on all things. Prior to being elected Prophet, he sat on a body known as the "Quorum of the Seventy", where he was an popular figure among the general population of the Church. He was a fundamentalist who believed in the literal 6 day creation period as chronicled in Genesis, and the 6000 year history of the earth.

    In contrast, another member of the 70, by the name of B.H Roberts, who also happened to be a scientist in real life, was busy producing scholarly works on evolution and the beginnings of life on the planet. Many of Roberts works were being published in scientific Journals, and this angered the conservative fundementalist nature of Feilding Smith, so he petitioned the highest leadership in the Church, known as the "First Presidency", to silence Roberts and excommunicate him for his teachings that he claimed were heresy.

    After a period of debate within the Church among the general membership and leaders, the First Presidency which includes the office of "Prophet" who is the ultimate leader of the Church, decided an official Church ruling on the subject was necessary to avoid division among the ranks and bring harmony back to the fold.

    They instructed Roberts and Smith to submit papers on their individual theories, which they would read, ponder, and then present to God himself for divine revelation concerning the matter. After doing this, this is what they concluded.

    They concluded that while God indeed is the creator of the earth, and our bodies, he has NOT made the details of just how he did that known to man as of that time. They also concluded that he may have left "signs and tokens" of the process used, which man, using his divine intelligence, can decipher by examining the world around him. Their ultimate ruling, was that God did indeed create man and the world in which we live, and that the details of that creation, not being pertinent to mans salvation, were a matter best left to scientists to discern, through the process of examination and understanding.

    This ruling represents the official stand of the church today, and also represents one of the most level headed and logical conclusions I have ever heard on the subject.

    The rest of Christianity would do well to adopt it.

    ReplyDelete
  85. Anonymous2:08 PM

    Carl said...
    Worf,

    Whaddya think? Sixth grade? Fifth?


    Not sure, but he's definately none too bright.

    ReplyDelete
  86. Replace sex with Christ, Carl, you thought I wouldn't see it... you scrawny piece of shit...you can't get laid to save your soul...err I forgot God didn't give you a soul...jagoff

    ReplyDelete
  87. Worf...you too behave yourself...pricklips

    ReplyDelete
  88. You and your Virginny backwash

    ReplyDelete
  89. Carl asked me the other day what the word "tits" meant.

    ReplyDelete
  90. Anonymous2:16 PM

    Another insteresting note on the debate between Feilding Smith and Roberts, and the ruling of the First Presidency.

    They told Smith to NOT publish his papers on the 6 day creation theory to the membership, as his position as a member of the Church leadership would make members think it was church doctrine.

    Fielding Smith waited until that first Presidency died off, and once he rose to head of the Quorum of the Twelve, published his papers as a book, titled, "Man, His Origin and Destiny". To this day many members of the church, the more conservative ones, believe this book to be church doctrine, and accept the creationism stories as gospel, even though the official stand of the church is quite different.

    ReplyDelete
  91. Anonymous2:18 PM

    It just goes to prove that simple minds will believe the theories of simpletons, while more complex ones will believe the truth.

    ReplyDelete
  92. Anonymous2:20 PM

    Well enough.

    Its clear I'm casting my pearls before the swine.

    When someone with a functional brain comes in, give me a holler.

    ReplyDelete
  93. The real truth about evolution and creationism, is that no one will ever know for sure. There are many conundrums in life.

    And all man has ever done is tried figuring things out for himself...Man is stupid in the eyes of the Lord...Man thinks with his "member" not his brain.

    And that's what gets us in deep crud.

    ReplyDelete
  94. Worf,

    You are a hillbilly from Virginny. You never have anything intelligent to say.

    What I say stands..."backwater Virginny"

    ReplyDelete
  95. Bill Clinton thought with his "member", and look at all the crap that's been going on ever since.

    The Lord is always watching!

    ReplyDelete
  96. Anonymous2:37 PM

    clippy said...
    The real truth about evolution and creationism, is that no one will ever know for sure.


    No.

    Perhaps you will never know for sure, but those of us who God endowed with working brains will know many things that simpletons like you will never grasp.

    For example, no one has ever "seen" a black hole. Yet we know they exist. How? By observing the Black Holes effects on matter near its mouth, including light, and stars. Stars that are clearly in orbit of a large body for instance, tell us that a black hole is present.

    And we know the origins of the universe, as revealed in the theory of the "Big Bang". How? Well one proven way is by a phenomenon known as "Red Shift". Light as it travels away from us appears red, and as we observe cosmological objects, like Quasars, planets, etc, we can see them moving outwards and away, which, and measure their relative speeds, which clearly are increasing as they move farther away. This demonstrates the validity of the Big Bang, and thus helps us understand our origins.

    No, I am afraid that mental midgetry is your lot in life Clippy, but as for the rest of us, thank God we have big brains and can understand all that is around us as we use the brains God gave us to do just that with.

    ReplyDelete
  97. Anonymous2:43 PM

    dippy said...
    There are many conundrums in life.

    Such as how your brain generates enough electricity to keep your fingers moving?

    ReplyDelete
  98. Anonymous2:43 PM

    Thats one for the ages.

    ReplyDelete
  99. Anonymous2:46 PM

    Dippy said...

    Man is stupid in the eyes of the Lord...

    With regards to yourself I imagine that may likely be the case.

    ReplyDelete
  100. Anonymous2:47 PM

    dippy said...

    all man has ever done is tried figuring things out for himself

    Which is why God gave you brains large enough to do just that.

    Or did you think God is an idiot, who handed us the biggest brain of all (next to the Dolphin), with the intentions of us never using them?

    Remember the Parable of the Talents?

    If not, I suggest you go back and read.

    ReplyDelete
  101. Anonymous2:54 PM

    The Parable of the Talents

    For [the kingdom of heaven is] as a man travelling into a far country, [who] called his own servants, and delivered unto them his goods.

    And unto one he gave five talents, to another two, and to another one; to every man according to his several ability; and straightway took his journey.

    Then he that had received the five talents went and traded with the same, and made [them] other five talents.

    And likewise he that [had received] two, he also gained other two.

    But he that had received one went and digged in the earth, and hid his lord's money.

    After a long time the lord of those servants cometh, and reckoneth with them.

    And so he that had received five talents came and brought other five talents, saying, Lord, thou deliveredst unto me five talents: behold, I have gained beside them five talents more.

    His lord said unto him, Well done, [thou] good and faithful servant: thou hast been faithful over a few things, I will make thee ruler over many things: enter thou into the joy of thy lord.

    He also that had received two talents came and said, Lord, thou deliveredst unto me two talents: behold, I have gained two other talents beside them.

    His lord said unto him, Well done, good and faithful servant; thou hast been faithful over a few things, I will make thee ruler over many things: enter thou into the joy of thy lord.

    Then he which had received the one talent came and said, Lord, I knew thee that thou art an hard man, reaping where thou hast not sown, and gathering where thou hast not strawed:

    And I was afraid, and went and hid thy talent in the earth: lo, there thou hast that is thine.

    His lord answered and said unto him, Thou wicked and slothful servant, thou knewest that I reap where I sowed not, and gather where I have not strawed:

    Thou oughtest therefore to have put my money to the exchangers, and [then] at my coming I should have received mine own with usury.

    Take therefore the talent from him, and give [it] unto him which hath ten talents.

    For unto every one that hath shall be given, and he shall have abundance: but from him that hath not shall be taken away even that which he hath.

    And cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.


    Matthew 25:14 thru 30

    ReplyDelete
  102. Worf,

    You are right, you know everything in the whole world!

    ReplyDelete
  103. Anonymous2:56 PM

    He that has ears to hear, let him hear.

    ReplyDelete
  104. the trolls seem a little upset!

    ReplyDelete
  105. Worf,

    In all seriousness, You are the most intelligent one here!

    ReplyDelete
  106. Marcus, I didnt recognize you at first, Have a great Christmas and New Years and stay safe over there, hopefully you'll be coming home sooner rather than later.

    ReplyDelete
  107. Anonymous3:03 PM

    Your jokes aside Clippy, perhaps you recognize the seriousness of wasting our intelligence on archaic belief systems?

    Considering this fact. The average human uses between 7 and 12 percent of his brains capability to store and process information.

    7 to 12 percent.

    Now, take that fact, and consider it in the light of the parable of the talents.

    God gave us brains capable of 100 percent usage.

    We use 7 to 12 percent.

    Knowing this, which one of the servants does that make us?

    ReplyDelete
  108. Worf,

    Everyone has their own talents and capabilities.

    I've learned a lot by your writing on this blog.

    You also have that sardonic wit that makes you entertaining.

    Granted, you seem to be more educated than I am, and to that you should be proud.

    ReplyDelete
  109. Anonymous3:08 PM

    We live in a society exquisitely dependent on science and technology, in which hardly anyone knows anything about science and technology.

    Carl Sagan

    ReplyDelete
  110. Worf,

    The brain is the most complex organ of the entire body. Just imagine how many thoughts a person has in their lifetime?

    ReplyDelete
  111. Great Carl Sagan quote

    ReplyDelete
  112. Anonymous3:10 PM

    clippy said...
    Worf,

    Everyone has their own talents and capabilities.


    The parable of the "Talents" was not about your talents or "skills".

    Talents was a monetary reference. Talents were a measure of money used during the time of Christ.

    ReplyDelete
  113. Hey Worf do you think GWB is a flip flopper, I mean he flip flopped about liking a smaller military before he liked a bigger military, he flip flopped that we were winning in Iraq before he said we were losing, and he flip flopped that he wanted Rummy to stay his entire term a mere few days before he wanted to fire him etc.................

    ReplyDelete
  114. Anonymous3:13 PM

    Jesus spoke in parable, to help people understand his meaning.

    The Parable of the Talents is simple.

    When God gives you tangible, usuable items, like a brain for instance, and you effectively "bury it", in dogmatic beliefs that have nothing to do with the reality screaming at you from all sides, then you are like the servant given one talent of money, who buried it in the ground, never using it to grow more wealth.

    Those who teach creationism, are thus described.

    ReplyDelete
  115. Worf,

    That I didn't know.

    I need to get back to reading the Bible

    ReplyDelete
  116. Anonymous3:14 PM

    Mike said...
    Hey Worf do you think GWB is a flip flopper


    The flip floppiest.

    ReplyDelete
  117. Worf,

    Did you study theolgy in college?

    ReplyDelete
  118. Bush also flip flopped about him and Cheney hating leaks and wanting to fire anyone in his administration leaking information right after they all leaked classified info about Plame, which by the way might do in Cheney and Bush.

    Sure the idiot in chief can pardon Cheney, but that can only keep him out of jail were he really belongs, not keep him from being removed from office.

    ReplyDelete
  119. That makes sense that are brains are to be used their fullest extent.

    Creationism might seem to simple to understand, whereas with evolution there is so much to know in the vastness of the universe.

    ReplyDelete
  120. The Idiot and Chief and Cheney and Rumsfeld better get some traveling in before they are convicted of warcrimes or else the gutless cowards will never be able to travel internationally again.

    ReplyDelete
  121. I find it enlightening to have these conversations, rather than Iraq talk.

    ReplyDelete
  122. oh look Johnny moo moo found a new handle.

    ReplyDelete
  123. Worf,

    I thought you were against Catholic teachings?

    ReplyDelete
  124. Anonymous3:21 PM

    clippy said...
    That makes sense that are brains are to be used their fullest extent.

    Creationism might seem to simple to understand, whereas with evolution there is so much to know in the vastness of the universe.


    Well think of it. God said he created man, but he never said how.

    Also, God said it took 6 days to create the earth, but he also said that a day in the life of God is like a thousand years to us.

    So hwo long did it take? How did he do it?

    He didn't say.

    But he left signs and tokens for us to follow, if we would only use our brains, instead of shutting them down and concluding it is beyond our capabilities.

    ReplyDelete
  125. Johnny moo moo said "I find it enlightening to have these conversations, rather than Iraq talk."

    translation= i'll do anything to wrench the discussion away from Iraq or GWB including calling names like a vulgar 4th grader or turning the talk to the bloggers and away from the issues.

    ReplyDelete
  126. BTW Clif dont ya think GWB just did the mother of all flip flops by saying he wants a bigger military after him and Dumbsfeld were blustering for years about transforming the military into a smaller more agile force and how they supported fighting wars on the cheap with smaller than recommended forces, so it looks like GWB was for a small military, before he was for a bigger military, do you think this means he will support a draft or a tax increase to fund this bigger military and his war of CHOICE, because since he has taken over he has squandered our surplus from Clinton and there are deficits as far as the eye can see.

    ReplyDelete
  127. Anonymous3:24 PM

    clippy said...
    Worf,

    I thought you were against Catholic teachings?


    I am not against their teachings. They can teach what they want. I may not believe them, but that doesn't mean I am against them.

    What I am against is some oftheir practices from their beginnings of the church, like the rack.

    The Iron Maiden didn't rank to high up on my list either.

    ReplyDelete
  128. Worf,

    True, God gave us the tools we need to figure things out on our own. He gave us all different ways to do, so we can discuss it.

    ReplyDelete
  129. Anonymous3:26 PM

    And the sodomizing of altar boys doesn't sit high on my list either.

    ReplyDelete
  130. The Catholic inquistions for example.

    ReplyDelete
  131. Bush and Cheney NEVER have a well thought out plan for ANYTHING, i'd like to here his plan for achieving a "bigger" military, I hope it includes more than feeding them cake.................................seems the Bush's are quite good at telling their subjects to "eat cake" just like another despot and his queen in France and things didnt turn out to well for them.

    ReplyDelete
  132. The practice of hurting others is in direct offense to God, and there are times the catholics have looked the other way.

    ReplyDelete
  133. I know Pope John Paul knew, but didn't do anything to prosecute these priests to the fullest extent of the law

    ReplyDelete
  134. Anonymous3:30 PM

    Now they of course have concluded their evil practices over the last century, but think about it.

    For more than 1800 years the Church committed the most heinous and foul acts in recorded history.

    Torture, murder, rape, theivery, all went on for 1800 years, from the earliest days of the church.

    Admittedly most of that stopped about 150 years ago, but 150 out of close to 2000 years doesn't bode well for their "divine origins".

    Remember, Jesus said A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit..

    He also said by their fruits ye shall know them

    And we all know the fruits of the Catholic Church.

    ReplyDelete
  135. What about Mark Foley Clippy do you think he should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law as well as those that knew what he was doing and supported and covered for him.

    In other words, do you think Hastert should be removed from office?

    ReplyDelete
  136. Clippy said "The practice of hurting others is in direct offense to God, and there are times the catholics have looked the other way."

    Really now Clipster you seem pretty comfortable with all of our soldiers as well as innocent muslims dying because of the lies and incompetence of the Neo Cons, if you REALLY care about people being hurt and feel it is a direct offense to god, dont you think those that lied us into this war of choice should be held accountable and punished for it?

    ReplyDelete
  137. Come on Clippy i'm waiting whats wrong cat got your tongue?

    ReplyDelete
  138. oh I see you got asked a REAL question and cant hijack the thread anymore and make it about the bloggers or the catholic church so its time to run away.

    ReplyDelete
  139. Anonymous3:37 PM

    clippy said...
    I know Pope John Paul knew, but didn't do anything to prosecute these priests to the fullest extent of the law


    John Paul was just an old man. It was the Bishops and Cardinals who hold the most blame on that one, plus the priests who actually did the deeds.

    Instead of feeding the children, they were "f$#$#king the children".

    ReplyDelete
  140. you didnt smash your keyboard did you clippy, because if not you can at least type one handed while your taking care of business.................cant you?

    ReplyDelete
  141. whats wrong Clippy, was it something I said?

    ReplyDelete
  142. later Worf, later Foole, i'm going to see the new Rocky!

    ReplyDelete
  143. Anonymous3:39 PM

    I don't mind talking about the Catholic Church Mike.

    I started out in here with a discussion on the Catholic Church over a year ago now, because this blog is not just about politics, it is about religion.

    ReplyDelete
  144. Anonymous3:40 PM

    Religion and politics, spirituality.


    All valid topics for discussion.

    ReplyDelete
  145. Anonymous3:42 PM

    I'll discuss religion with anyone who wants to, if they are reasonably serious and have some reasonable questions or misconceptions to discuss or debate.

    Religion is one of the most important things we as a people can discuss.

    But have fun at ROCKY! I envy you. I can't sit in a theatre back here.

    Everyone talks to much, so I'll have to wait for the DVD to come out.

    ReplyDelete
  146. Anonymous3:45 PM

    BTW, when I said 1800 years that was a brainfart. While the Catholic Church claims direct uninterupted authority from Christ, the Church stopped those practices back in the 1800's, and the official suppression of heresy did not rear its ugly head, at least as we have documentation to demonstrate, until around 250 to 300 CE.

    ReplyDelete
  147. I know Worf, it is a little nostalgic and honestly i dont mind hearing about it either because i learn something as well because i know very little about the inquisition or the catholic church.

    However I just wanted to make it clear what angle clippy/moo moo was playing he wanted to hijack the thread to ANUYHING but Bush or the war and he knows you enjoy talking about the church as well.

    I wasnt trying to dictate what can be discussed, just shine a light on the trolls games.

    In case you did realize that was Moo Moo.

    ReplyDelete
  148. like I said I dont mind hearing about spirituality, religion i dont mind hearing discussed either but that ranks a distant second because as i've said from day one, I think more evil deeds are done in the name of religion than good deeds.

    but regardless, i just wanted you to realize that moo moo was playing you.

    ReplyDelete
  149. Anonymous4:02 PM

    I am well aware of his lack of sincerity, but if he asks reasonble questions, then I may answer. To me, the discussion of religion takes us back to the discussion of Bush, and the Neocons.

    But I do understand what you're saying.

    ReplyDelete
  150. Anonymous4:05 PM

    Skeptical scrutiny is the means, in both science and religion, by which deep thoughts can be winnowed from deep nonsense.


    Carl Sagan

    ReplyDelete
  151. Anonymous4:14 PM

    If the neocons would actually study the teachings of Christ, then there would be no question on what to do in Iraq.

    We would be as wise as wolves, yet harmless as doves.

    ReplyDelete
  152. Anonymous4:22 PM

    The problem is, there are too many neocons walking around claiming to be followers of Christ, who when questioned, seem to know nothing of his life, his ministry or his teachings.

    Carl Sagan said we live in a world where we depend on science and technology, yet few of us know anything about science or technology.

    In that same light, we live in a country that relies on Christianity for its moral compass, yet most of us don't know anything about the actual life of Christ.

    Ignorance is the great sin, and intelligence is the antethesis of evil.

    ReplyDelete
  153. Because we BOTH know "race" is not just about what you're born with, but what you learn.
    -carl

    Okay buddy, you win. Race has nothing to do with genetics. A person may choose his race. Gender is the same as race; sexual orientation is the same as race; religious beliefs are the same as race; nationality is the same as race; if I decide to go to the opera, I would belong to the musical-fat-lady-in-viking-hat-with-unnatural-vibratto race.

    In fact if everything in our culture constitutes race, therefore nothing is race. Race does not matter, race does not exist, and therefore racists do not exist.

    Now we can begin to wipe out all hints of racial discrimination. No more affirmative action; no more preferential treatment in college admissions; no more silly talk about reparations for slavery; no more minority scholarships; no more Congressional Black Caucus; no more NAACP; no more jessie jackson rainbow coalition racial extortion schemes; no more carl speaking with fake gestapo accent at LittleGreenFascists.

    Indeed the content of a person's character is far more important than the color of his skin.

    Hay PP, congratulations you've become a Conservative after all; glad I could help.

    ReplyDelete
  154. Anonymous4:50 PM

    I agree that affirmitive action is no longer justified in most major US cities. In fact, it seems to often have the reverse effect.

    I also agree that the idea of reparations for slavery is an absurd idea, and has absolutely no business being discussed in any serious political venue.

    I am not on board with everything you said, but those two make sense.

    ReplyDelete
  155. Anonymous5:01 PM

    Aaron Sorkin took a crack at an evenhanded discussion for reparations for slavery on the West Wing, but I found it trite and patronizing.

    Paying decendents who are now as much decendents of others than of slaves, for hardships suffered by their fathers is ridiculous. There are few actual pure descendents in this country anyway, and the truth is they enjoy a high quality of life here in the US compared to their African counterparts. In order to pay someone reparations, you first need to demonstrate some hardship or injustice done to the person to be compensated for said suffering. That can no longer be done, as too many generations have passed away for any real suffering or even first hand knowledge of to be demonstrated with any clarity.

    If we had originally honored the promise of "40 acres and a mule", then that would be good. But that boat has long since sailed, and today, black people are Americans. Nothing more, nothing less.

    Sure there are still a few throwbacks out there who hold prejudice in their hearts, but most Americans could care less about the color of their skin, but instead judge on the content of character. Today in America, anyone can be rich, and anyone can be a success. They just have to want it badly enough.

    No one rides for free.

    ReplyDelete
  156. Anonymous5:02 PM

    Now if you want to discuss paying the Iraqi people reparations, "war reparations", then on that topic, I'm all ears.

    If anyone deserves to be paid for their suffering, its the Iraqi people.

    ReplyDelete
  157. Anonymous6:15 PM

    Man, anyone watching Scarborough Country?

    I mean, Scarborough is a conservative, but they're burying Bush.

    They are saying he is clearly "delusional". They describe him much like Hitler, delusional, isolated, and believing his own Joint Cheifs are out to get him, and believing that history will somehow prove him right, and everyone else wrong.

    Mike Barnacle said he needs to be "removed" from office.

    ReplyDelete
  158. Anonymous8:37 PM

    Wow. Guess no one wants to talk to me tonight. :|

    Oh well, I don't mind being the last little bulb on the tree. So I'll talk to myself. :o

    Did anyone notice what President Bush's brother Jeb said today?

    When asked about running for President, Jeb told reporters I have no future, clearly referring to the damage done buy his bumbling bully brother, lil Georgy.

    And when commenting on the same topic, Republican senator Sam Brownback told reporters it was a "heritage issue", and that "People may be wanting to see a different name"

    Bush is falling hard. GOP leaders are waking up to the devastation Bush has wreaked on the Republican party and even his own brother is turning on him.

    Problem is, we still have all his messes to clean up.

    I hope you learned something from this America.

    ReplyDelete
  159. Anonymous10:11 PM

    I bet Jeb wishes he hadn't helped his brother steal Florida now in 2000.

    Betcha he wishes he didn't authorize those road blocks coming out of Broward county now.

    I bet he is just starting to realize what he's done.

    I just wonder if he's remorseful for what he's done to his own career, or for what he's done to the country?

    ReplyDelete
  160. Anonymous10:17 PM

    The worst part is, I almost feel sorry for Bush. Its no fun watching a mans life fall to ruin, but theres no stopping the tidal wave now. The people smell his weakness, and see his bumbling, and the people are merciless.

    Of course, it would make it easier to feel sorry for him if he would stop threatening to send more troops to Iraq. Its like he just doesn't get it.

    He wants to win, but he lost, and Iraq will now go down in history as a terrible mistake that costs hundreds of thousands of lives.

    ReplyDelete
  161. Human, I just re read your post at the top of the thread, that is a great post!

    ReplyDelete
  162. Bush reminds me of a drunken gambler who has lost everything and their life is in ruin but instead of realizing that Gambling is the problem and is what brought them down wants to double down and try to win their money back.

    see the world is in ruins because of GWB's delusions particularly our country and Iraq, and instead of coming to his senses and accepting reality or respecting the will of the people GWB wants to double down and send MORE troops to a cause that is unwinnable and all ready lost. He is like a dry drunk, punch drunk on his own arrogance omnipotence and stubborness who insanely and beyond all reason persists in throwing good money after the bad on the wing and a prayer he can salvage his legacy and be anything but that which he has been his entire life, a collossal failure, but unfortunately and saddest of all instead of throwing away his own money, GWB is sacrificing the lives of our soldiers and our countries military and economic strength as well as our credibility and reputation.

    ReplyDelete
  163. Worf said "Bush is falling hard. GOP leaders are waking up to the devastation Bush has wreaked on the Republican party and even his own brother is turning on him.

    Problem is, we still have all his messes to clean up.

    I hope you learned something from this America."

    I've said this for the last year that the decent repugs should be ashamed that they let this man and his pack of incompetent Neo Con fools hijack the repug party, but instead of distancing them selves and criticizing GWB and being angry about the lies and how he hurt their partys credibility, the trolls in her continue to defend the man despite many in their own party taking steps to reclaim their party from the incompetent fringes who drove it into oblivion.

    ReplyDelete
  164. I think the Foole smashed his keyboard again last night, maybe someone will buy all the trolls a lifetime supply because they are gonna need it from now on.
    -mikey

    Debating mikey is about as challenging as playing basketball with Stephen Hawking or riding a merry-go-round.

    Also, if Worf doesn't stop agreeing with me, his rep will be in tatters.

    ReplyDelete
  165. Dishonest as usual FF, I have said on many occasions that I also agree that I do not support Affirmative Action because in many instances it causes reverse descrimination and precludes the best and britest from getting a job.

    I also agree that reparations for Slavery is riddiculous and support law abiding citizens right to own a gun.

    In fact FF not one liberal in here has said they are against law abiding citizens right to own a gun or said they support Affirmative action or reparations for slavery, yet you keep dishonestly trying to say we do, the liberal you an Coulter rail on doesnt exist my dunce cap wearing friend, its a mythical beast much like the yeti that gives you a strawman to attack nothing more.

    ReplyDelete
  166. Damn, another DAY, another OFF topic rant by the FOOLE.......

    He has NOTHING to say about the Idiot in the White house, NOW that everyone sees just how big an Idiot he really is........

    He has little to say about the collapse of the repug lie and smear machine THIS election.....

    He has NOTHING to say about just how wrong he, THE FOOLE, has been all along....just stupid insults and empty claims of victory....

    Seems the Foole and the Idiot have much in common.

    ReplyDelete
  167. The entire country is searching for a solution to the complete FIASCO Bush ET AL has created in Iraq, and searching for some way to make the Idiot in Chief to accept he has screwed up worse than even Hoover did, but the FOOLE just ignores this and spews empty rhetoric and false generalizations, and lame attempts at slandering other people here.

    Seems the FOOLE is as clueless as the Idiot is. It must be related to the fact both seem to live in a delusional bubble with little actual connections to reality.

    Seems people who refuse to be HONEST about why they hid from actual service and refuse to answer the questions about their reasons for hiding out in the non deployable units which forced SOMEBODY else to serve in their place, creates a bubble they can not get out of NOW.

    ReplyDelete
  168. They are finally talking about raising the numbers of the military

    The white house and Pentagon are finally talking about raising the numbers of people in uniform which would alleviate the burden on those who are serving now. But it is NOT just raw numbers they need.

    Growing the Army if NOT done with some forethought will create as big a Fiasco as going into Iraq without a plan already has. We need to ask ourselves what we need in a 21st military before the Pentagon goes to congress for an authorization to increase end strength. The size of US forces is set by congress based on advice of the Pentagon and requests by the Commander in Chief. Since the end of the first gulf war, the military has been downsized, first because of the collapse of the Soviet Union, which meant we no longer needed large mechanized Infantry and Armor Units to fight the Soviet Union on the plains of Germany and Eastern Europe.

    Desert Storm was that type of war, as was the Invasion of Iraq in 2003, we have enough troops to fight that style of war. There is NO foreign military which could stand toe to toe with the US in that style of combat EVEN today.

    But since the Victory of 1991, the US has been embroiled in a number of military excursions which requires a new approach. Somalia, Bosnia, Kosovo, and both the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq since April 2003 shows the extreme limits on the military structure we have.

    We do NOT have any where near enough Military Police units. That is what is severely lacking in Iraq. Units trained in the art of policing captured territory, providing security for both the US supply routes and civilians who have become the wards of US troops after we occupied their homeland. Soldiers who know how to man a check point, have training in the arts of policing civilians and can run security operations as their primary purpose, infantry units are NOT trained for this mission and should NOT be.

    Secondly we need more Engineer troops in the forces, if we are going to continue with operations like Bosnia and Iraq post invasion. Engineers are the construction forces of the Military. They would have been very advantageous in the early days of the occupation because they could have repaired the broken infrastructure, which would have provided electricity and water to the people, which would have provided some good will on their part. This could have been used to create a much friendlier environment with many Iraqi civilians, then the hard handed arrest them all and sort it out months later approach Dumsfeld used.

    Third we need a large increase in civil affairs units. These are the units which go into the civilian areas and ask ther local population what THEY need, and then work with Military Police units for security and Engineer units for repair and reconstruction to provide it. The Civil Affairs also coordinate medical units to provide medical services until Hospitals can be repaired and re-established, and is who the Military turns to to repair schools and get the children back into the classrooms.

    Another Thing that is required is a new type of command for any occupation force. The military needs a professional command structure which does what the CPA incompetently tried to do. It would be the General which had control over the MP's Engineers and Civil Affairs, and other units which would be required to restore the civilian social structure to something which a civilian government could take the reigns of power and allow the US forces to re-deploy back to the US. But something like a Military CPA would have to leave the political cronyism and hackery in DC and allow professional people who trained for the job to take the reigns and preform the mission.

    Structuring the Military growth in this manner would be adding units which are staffed to win the hearts and minds of the people once the "War Fighters" have won the battle. They are built to operate in a manner which has the possibility to provide for the improvement of the lives if civilians right after the cessation of major combat operations, and stand up the civilian authorities to take back civilian control. However Halliburton would not be employed if the military had these units available, because the military would be doing the same job which Dumsfeld contracted Halliburton to do, but at a MUCH lower cost, and they would nave the ability to hold the commanders accountable. This is a good thing, both to the taxpayers who would have to shell out less money, and to the civilians in the theater of operations which would actually see the job done.

    As an aside this restructuring of the Military in this manner would also provide the civilians of the US some direct benefits. If the Military had these units available pre-katrina, the outcome of that disaster might have been completely different. There would have been units ready to go on Day one NOT day five, and a brigade of Engineers could have cleared and repairs roads much sooner. The MPs would have been available for rescue and recovery operations much sooner, and been able to move into the Superdome and convention center both to restore order, and aid in the evacuation days before Gen Honore was sent in.

    Will this be what Bush and Gates settles on, probably NOT. It does not provide for large new contracts for the defense industries. It is NOT what the neo-cons want because the missions are not attack attack attack, but provide services to people which dearly need them. It goes against the grain of the reichwingnut mantra of blame those the are suffering because of policies enacted by the incompetent president and repugnant party. Policies which enrich a few, and cause death destruction and suffering on a massive scale in both this country and around the world.

    When Bush and Gates set out to grow the military, they probably will work to add "war fighters" not peace winners. Because they are all about fighting a war, not winning the peace. The units I suggest to add are what the military relies on to win the peace after the initial battle has been won, but the war is far from settled, just as has happened in Iraq. The M-1 tanks can take the ground but do little for the people once they do. Right now the US needs more units that can assist the people of this planet and less that are formed to kill them.

    ReplyDelete
  169. CHRISTMAS WORFEUS said...
    I agree that affirmitive action is no longer justified in most major US cities. In fact, it seems to often have the reverse effect.


    You obviously ain't seen the New York City Fire Department...or the NYPD, for that matter. Or Sanitation. Or...

    ReplyDelete
  170. Freedom Fan said...
    Because we BOTH know "race" is not just about what you're born with, but what you learn.
    -carl

    Okay buddy, you win. Race has nothing to do with genetics.


    That's not what I said, from day one, you lying bullshit artist. Grow the fuck up, willya? You're boring the hell out of Lydia...

    ReplyDelete
  171. CHRISTMAS WORFEUS said...
    Now they of course have concluded their evil practices over the last century, but think about it.

    For more than 1800 years the Church committed the most heinous and foul acts in recorded history.


    More like 2000. You forgot endorsing Nazism.

    ReplyDelete
  172. clippy said...
    Replace sex with Christ


    Yes, something too many religious addicts like you do...

    ReplyDelete
  173. clippy said...
    Carl asked me the other day what the word "tits" meant.


    That's because you mentioned your father's pair, and I wanted to know if you knew what a tit was...

    If not, I suggest you go look in a mirror.

    ReplyDelete
  174. Worf,

    We don't understand the life of Christ because the good things he did with the poor and the sick, don't make for good TV.

    Or propaganda.

    ReplyDelete
  175. Um... I don't believe fluffy is interested in "tits".

    ReplyDelete
  176. Mike said...
    Dishonest as usual FF, I have said on many occasions that I also agree that I do not support Affirmative Action because in many instances it causes reverse descrimination and precludes the best and britest from getting a job.


    What we truly need is an economic affirmative action plan. Many of the poorest people are also the whitest, and have the least opportunity to advance themselves and their families. Hugh corporations make billions...no, trillions of dollars off the backs of these folks, and then their hired cronies will do nothing to help: no education, no health care, nothing.

    There's the true shame of this nation.

    ReplyDelete
  177. Freedom Fan said...
    Um... I don't believe fluffy is interested in "tits".


    I don't know. Obviously I find you fascinating...

    ReplyDelete
  178. Hm...now, let's see...homosexuality is genetic, and since Fawnbot claims that all race is genetic....DUNCE! What race are gays?

    ReplyDelete
  179. Cmon Master Racist! We're all hanging on this one...race is genetic. Homosexuality is genetic. Therefore gays are a race. I just want to know how you identify them through their physical characteristics, Master Racist!

    I figure since you have a Masters in Racism, you can share your knowledge with us.

    ReplyDelete
  180. Carl said "What we truly need is an economic affirmative action plan. Many of the poorest people are also the whitest, and have the least opportunity to advance themselves and their families. Hugh corporations make billions...no, trillions of dollars off the backs of these folks, and then their hired cronies will do nothing to help: no education, no health care, nothing.

    There's the true shame of this nation."

    Excellent point Carl, i couldnt agree more, we need to give the poor the opportunity to better themselves economically which is sorely lacking right now, under GWB the ultra rich have become much richer and the poor and middle class have lost ground and become poorer.

    GWB's world is not an ownership society, its a socirty of the haves and have nots, GWB wants to return society to the Gildded age or serfdom, where a few wealthy elite held all the money, assets and power and the huge underclass labored endlessly to serve them and make them richer with no chance to better themselves economically and essentially no class mobility GWB is the enemy of the middle class.

    ReplyDelete
  181. Fascist Foole said "Debating mikey is about as challenging as playing basketball with Stephen Hawking or riding a merry-go-round.

    Also, if Worf doesn't stop agreeing with me, his rep will be in tatters."

    Sorry pops, but you havent debated in here in over 9 months, all you do is spew a few dishonest generalizations, make a few corny attempts at jokes or witty humor or throw out a few insults then declare victory and run away.

    as for your posts about worf agreeing with you many of us agree with the more reasonable positions despite your dishonestly trying to portray all liberals as being against, go beat up some more phony strawmen pops thats about all your capable of defeating.

    BTW Clif has a point not only are you dishonest like your hero GWB, but it appears you hid out in the reserves just like him to avoid combat.

    ReplyDelete
  182. ...Homosexuality is genetic. Therefore gays are a race. I just want to know how you...
    -PP

    I don't want to get into your personal life. Whatever you and BG do behind closed doors really is none of my business.

    ReplyDelete
  183. Come on Foole dontya have any more dishonest lies and phony dishonest sweeping generalizations to spew about what liberals believe in better hurry up and create some more because strawmen are all you can handle taking your little pot shots at, like a true repug coward, you dont like things that can hit you back, so stick to the non existent strawmen Foole it will be safer for you, after all we wouldnt want to short circuit your remaining two brain cells.

    ReplyDelete
  184. Anonymous9:06 AM

    Carl said...


    More like 2000. You forgot endorsing Nazism.


    Well, technically the Catholic Church theoretically continued from the death of Christ, putting its formation sometime around 33 AD, or 33 CE, which would be close to 2000 years, however the Church as a body of power really didn't exist until the Edict of Milan issued by Constantine in the 3rd Century CE. Up until that time, Christians were the persecuted, not the persecutors. While there may have been excommunications, and disciplinary actions, the "suppression of heresy" most likely gained its foothold once Constantine declared it was now cool to be Christian, and empowered the Church with offical regonition from Rome as a favored religion in the empire.

    We know Lactiantius reported the practice of torture to extract confession and repel heresy in the Divine Institutes, around 350 CE, which compliments the notion that it was the official sanction of the Church by Constantine Agustus in 313 CE that laid the framework for the types of evil that followed.

    Therefore the church really only has between 1600 to 1700 years of crimes of torture on its hands based on those calculations, if you want to include the church's recognition of the Nazi party as a legitimate government (something the mormon church did as well).

    Sorry, just bored this morning. No one wants to talk about anything, so I couldn't help myself. I really am not trying to derail the thread.

    ReplyDelete
  185. Anonymous9:12 AM

    One thing that we learn from the Edict of Milan, and the subsequent suppression of heresy throughout the ages, is that the merger of church and state is the result of most evil in this world.

    It represents the evils we are seeing in the middle east right now in most muslim nations and it represents the evils we see being commited by Isreal, and in a way, the evil in North Korea, as the state suppressing religion can be as dangerous and destructive as the state sanctioning religion.

    And this is where Bush messed up. He allowed "his" religion to take center stage, and like Constantine Agustus, gave it a "favored" state in our society. That has done more damage than most people know.

    ReplyDelete
  186. I see the Foole is sticking to his guns, dishonesty, distraction, and ignorant boorish attempts at humor, but NO real debate, because when he tries THAT he shoots blanks.

    ReplyDelete
  187. Anonymous9:17 AM

    By the way, I didn't mean you guys weren't talking about anything. I meant here at home.

    Clif is right about FF not wanting to talk about Bushy, as its clear the whole country IS trying to find a way now to clean up his mess. I think impeachment is a lot closer than we think.

    ReplyDelete
  188. Gates assures Iraqis of continued U.S. support
    Defense secretary says talks included 'possibility' of additional assistance
    MSNBC News Services
    Updated: 1 hour, 17 minutes ago

    More troops?
    Earlier in the day, Gates asked soldiers on the ground in Baghdad for advice on fixing the war effort.

    “Sir, I think we need to just keep doing what we’re doing,” Spc. Jason Glenn of Mount Grove, Missouri, told Gates over breakfast at Camp Victory.

    “I really think we need more troops here. With more presence on the ground, more troops might hold them (the insurgents) off long enough to where we can get the Iraqi army trained up,” Glenn said.

    “However you characterize it, it’s not good enough,” Gates told the soldiers about America’s progress in the war.

    Defense officials travelling with the defense secretary said they did not know how the soldiers who met with Gates were chosen from the 134,000 troops in Iraq.

    Chance to listen
    While unscientific and perhaps not representative of troops’ thoughts overall, the soldiers’ views are among those Gates is weighing as he drafts recommendations for Bush

    Gates’ one-hour breakfast with the 15 ordinary soldiers, none of whom were officers, was largely a question-and-answer session, with the defense secretary asking the majority of questions and seeking advice on troop levels, a timeline for training Iraqis, sectarian leanings within the Iraqi security forces and the “caliber and discipline” of both Iraqi soldiers and their military leaders.

    No soldier present said the American forces should be brought home, and none said current troop levels were adequate, as some commanders have argued."


    I think this paragraph is the key "Defense officials travelling with the defense secretary said they did not know how the soldiers who met with Gates were chosen from the 134,000 troops in Iraq."

    it appears GWB is running a dog and pony show to make it "APPEAR" that:

    1) he is listening to the soldiers and

    2) the Soldiers ALL want to stay in Iraq rather than pull out, and ALL want to see MORE troops there.

    I dont think this is representative of the average soldiers thinking, i'd really like to hear Marcus's or Tim Deane's opinion on this, but it looks like a dog and pony show to buy Bush time and try to create the APPEARANCE of support to me............ in other words, another slimy underhanded Bush/Rove tactic to deceive people and buy time.

    ReplyDelete
  189. Hey guys, John McCain has hired a repug operator KNOWN for being a lying sock puppet.....

    McCain Hires Blog Sockpuppet

    I wonder who it really is, Tiny, Dolty Boy( they both have had little to say here lately,

    Stupidturd and all (his) disguises seem to have fallen silent...but he was hawking for the flip flopper Romney, so Johnny Mc couldn't be that stupid could he?

    Damn we have had so many sock puppet Fooles here it would be hard to "figger" out.

    At least we can see McFraud is not going to stop the LYING repug campaign style yet at least.

    ReplyDelete
  190. Anonymous9:29 AM

    If anyone watched Scarborough last night, its clear that even conservative pundits are done with Bush. I don't mean turning on him. I mean TURNED.

    Scarborough said it looks like Bush is "mentally unbalanced", and thats a bad sign for the right wing.

    But there are still some holdouts. Still some who want to support this unbalanced leader and push his foul crap. Last night, on Fox news, right wing pundit Mike Gallagher said that the Government should "round up" Matt Damon, Joy Behar and Keith Olberman, and put them in a DETENTION CAMP, for merely speaking their mind.

    A detention camp because they dared to voice their opinion.

    This is what we call a "hold out", and I wonder where our resident right wingers in here feel about that?

    ReplyDelete
  191. Worf said "While there may have been excommunications, and disciplinary actions, the "suppression of heresy" most likely gained its foothold once Constantine declared it was now cool to be Christian, and empowered the Church with offical regonition from Rome as a favored religion in the empire.

    We know Lactiantius reported the practice of torture to extract confession and repel heresy in the Divine Institutes, around 350 CE, which compliments the notion that it was the official sanction of the Church by Constantine Agustus in 313 CE that laid the framework for the types of evil that followed."

    So would it be correct to assume that 350 CE was the churchs first attempt to seize power and control people via religion?

    GWB would be proud if it was.

    ReplyDelete
  192. Well looky here,Christmas is upon us and the three geeks of the magi want to cure poverty. What a noble endevor.

    Carl(actor/waiter)wants a "economic affermative action plan." Although he has absolutly no idea what hes asking for he still thinks its an excellent idea.Sounds like one of those business world buzz word statements.Great work Carl...moron.

    Mike (37 years old,still living with his parents) says america is "not an ownership society," even though homeownership and homeownership among minorities is at an all time high.Smooth Mike...moron #2.

    ReplyDelete
  193. Well asking a Spc 4 for national strategy advice, is like asking a first year resident about Brain Surgery, neither have the training or experience to know what it would really take, because neither has the facts and knowledge to understand how to implement them.

    It make for a great photo op, but to somebody who understands why Generals lead Military Units into battle NOT Corporals, it is ridicules as anything else.

    ReplyDelete
  194. Anonymous9:32 AM

    I am losing faith in McCain Clif.

    Lately he has demonstrated his desire to be President outweighs his desire to be "good", and Hazelbaker is the bottom of the barrel.

    ReplyDelete
  195. Worf said "But there are still some holdouts. Still some who want to support this unbalanced leader and push his foul crap. Last night, on Fox news, right wing pundit Mike Gallagher said that the Government should "round up" Matt Damon, Joy Behar and Keith Olberman, and put them in a DETENTION CAMP, for merely speaking their mind.

    A detention camp because they dared to voice their opinion.

    This is what we call a "hold out", and I wonder where our resident right wingers in here feel about"


    they either wont comment on it or will say its wrong BUT.....................................blah blah blah

    They secretly support torture and are against any freedom of speech that doesnt agree with them.

    ReplyDelete
  196. Remember the LAST time a Former Corporal OVERRULED the sitting Generals?

    How did that turn out for the Military he took control of?

    ReplyDelete
  197. Worf said "I think impeachment is a lot closer than we think."

    From your lips to gods ears, the only thing is we have to get rid of Cheney first just like we got rid of Agnew before Nixon!

    ReplyDelete
  198. Anonymous9:37 AM

    Mike said...

    So would it be correct to assume that 350 CE was the churchs first attempt to seize power and control people via religion?

    Well, in 350 CE Lactantius was already writing about the use of torture to supress heresy, so my guess is it began somewhere around 313 CE, once the Church went from persecuted to respected status.

    But you're absolutely right about the church "seizing" upon this opportunity to take power, and they did. It wasn't long until the real power in Rome was the Pope, and the dark ages of torture, murder and all manner of evils commited in the name of Christ began.

    ReplyDelete
  199. Anonymous9:40 AM

    clif said...
    Remember the LAST time a Former Corporal OVERRULED the sitting Generals?

    How did that turn out for the Military he took control of?


    You mean the little guy with the mustache? lol.

    Not too good as I rememeber. If memory serves me correctly the WHOLE WORLD put aside their differences to kick his ass.

    ReplyDelete
  200. I guess the saying "power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely" is timeless and still applies today.

    Thats why it is vital the checks and balances remain functional to reign in and hold in check arrogant, ignorant megalomaniacs like GWB.

    ReplyDelete