Wednesday, July 19, 2006

SPIRITUAL HEALING * PRO-LIFE OR PRO-DEATH?

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"Those who want the government to regulate matters of the mind and spirit are like men who are so afraid of being murdered that they commit suicide to avoid assassination." - Harry S Truman

Though Jesus himself called the Bush-Cheney-Roves of his day a "brood of vipers," I am never comfortable using harsh language to malign others. The office of President of the United States should command the utmost respect, but the man Bush is merely a politician, who was not elected legally in my view, and has betrayed us. My higher self cannot stand the anger I feel toward Bush, so I need to dwell on Love and raise the dialogue here. Personally I know that life is spiritual, and the reason God has clothed us in so many colors and territories, is for the very purpose of overcoming our tribal separateness, bigotry and territoriality — in order to turn our hearts to love. In other words, THE GOLDEN RULE. This is not a religious issue, it's a social/humanitarian issue.

At this radioactive time in our history the last thing we need is a president who wants to be a barbaric war lord who condones indiscriminate bombing of innocent civilians. Bush has set our beautiful world back lightyears, instead of using his power and gifts for uniting people in peace. It's a shame that we can't do anything; it's a shame that we are burdened with this obtuse, truly deplorable president at a time we need leadership most.

But as long as Bush calls himself a Christian, we must remind him that "Loving one's neighbor as oneself" is Christ's most urgent instruction. And since Israel and Lebanon are neighbors of each other, the leader of the free world should be a peacemaker here. Bush has to be a leader. Congress must to stop pretending that gay marriage and flag-burning are as important as Christ's main commandment to LOVE OUR NEIGHBOR and CREATE PEACE ON EARTH.

Our whole test in this life is to turn our hatred into love and see the good in each other. We must become color-blind and less chauvinistic and nationalistic; we must start seeing that we are all one race, Human. This is based on God, the God of love.

If Bush is pro-life, then "life" these days must mean death and torture. How can one explain his thirst for war and blood and chaos? If Bush calls himself pro-life, then he has a lot of nerve depriving others of cures to prolong life. Bush thinks using MEDICAL WASTE TO SAVE LIVES IS MURDER. But it's OKAY AS LONG AS PRIVATE COMPANIES USE THE STEM CELLS?! I GUESS SINCE THEY'RE MAKING MONEY IT'S ALL GOOD. Why DOES BUSH TAKE MONEY FROM CHINA, A COUNTRY THAT NOT ONLY CONDONES ABORTION, ORGAN HARVESTING AND KILLING BABY GIRLS?

According to the Old Testament, which fundamentalists go by, life must contain blood, skin and flesh. Blastocysts, or embryonic stem cells are not human life; they are potential life and do not have blood yet, in the first 18 days prior to implantation, and therefore are not considered human life. Anyway, in the bible, God breathed life into man; he didn't culture life in a petri dish.

If fundamentalists quote the bible live by the bible, they have a lot of nerve eating shellfish or allowing women to speak in public without flogging them. All these things are in the Old Testament. Of course Jesus doesn't appear until the New Testament; he came to bring the New Law, the law of spirit over matter, the law of Love. Fundamentalist "Christians" have a lot of nerve callling themselves Christian if they completely ignore Christ's teachings. I guess don't know that Christ is the root of the word Christian because the vowel sounds are different. They surely do not follow Christ in any way.

HOW CAN WE SIT BACK AND LET THE WORLD BE RUINED BY THIS MADMAN who has no wisdom, compassion or heart? Not only has George Bush's Iraq war caused over 14,000 civilian deaths but over 20,000 of our own troops have been maimed (that means they lost arms, legs and brain cells) and 2,500 killed. Bush also has now condoned the bombing of Lebanese civilians and now with the veto of embryonic stem cell research, he has destroyed the hope of millions of Americans. And never forget, as you read the following article, that Bush flew to Florida in the middle of the night to intervene in the Terry Schiavo issue, a private family matter — yet took several days to care about the Katrina victims.

Pro-Death Politics by William Greider

I was astounded to read an E.J. Dionne column in the Washington Post about a baby boy in Texas who was denied life support by hospital officials over the objections of his mother--astounded because this act of euthanasia was authorized by a state law passed by then-Governor George W. Bush. Or should we call it "murder," as some Republicans fervently insist in the death of Terri Schiavo? I wanted to know more about Bush's role, but the Post never returned to the matter. I wanted to know more about the circumstances surrounding the death of Representative Tom DeLay's injured father (the doctors pulled the plug on him with the family's consent).

I also want to know who makes these godlike choices for the Hospital Corporation of America, the 191-hospital chain built by Senator-Doctor Bill Frist's family. Does HCA follow the end-of-life logic suggested by Bush's law, or do the hospitals subscribe to Pope John Paul II's dictum that providing food and water to sustain brain-dead mortals is "morally obligatory"?

These questions sound tasteless and insensitive, I know, but our sensibilities have been jarred by the recent melodrama mounted by the right. The Pope's death was, by contrast, a model for dying with dignity and proper mourning. The life-or-death issue goes deeper than the obvious hypocrisy of certain politicians. It leads us into intriguing, disturbing questions about what "moral people" believe in this very moralistic country. Shouldn't we have a fuller discussion about who is pro-life, who is pro-death?Bush pretends to believe in God, but he is anti-Christian, and anti-God. From The Nation.

On a less spiritual note, I found this article to be insightful and hilarious.
Bush - Stoned? Drunk? Medicated? Presidential Tester for the Pharmaceutical Industry? You Decide........
Submitted by BuzzFlash Reader Contribution
by Ruth Lopez

Bush is fried. He's either drinking, smoking pot, medicated, or some combination of all of them. Either that or the man has taken a one-way trip to crazy town. Watch his gibberish at the G8, especially the bizarre stuff about how long the plane flights to various countries are. If you take out the comments of the other leaders (because they actually sound intelligent and not like drunken bar talk) and just read what Bush says, he sounds just like someone who is more than half looped.

"Gotta go home. Gotta do sumthin tonight. Get ona plane. Go home. It's a long flight. How long is your flight? That's a long flight. Your country is big. His country is big too." Retarded or stoned, you decide.

This is the kind of mindless bar drivel that drunks who can't shut up drone on with. They just keep running their mouths, totally disconnected from the non-verbal clues of the people around them.

Watch the press conference where Bush couldn't stop talking about the pig roast. It didn't matter what anyone asked him, he just kept saying whatever his addled brain was looping on, in this case, the pig. Typical stoned behavior. It reminded me of the time Bush went to Canada and couldn't get off the subject of the mouth one of the Canadian Prime Minister's staff members! "You've got a purty mouth." Not once but several times. "You've sure got a purty mouth." And, "Your mouth is prettier than my Scott's mouth." (The poor guy's name was Scott.) Who does this? Outside of bars or institutions, I mean.

Watch Bush's body language at the table with Blair talking over his shoulder. Bush is sitting, almost slouched back in his chair, like a guy at a barbeque on his second or third 6 pack, chomping on his food with his mouth open, and making minimal effort to intelligently keep up his end of the conversation by occasionally throwing in something he mistakenly thinks is sufficient. (read the rest at Buzzflash)


REGARDING IRAN Christopher Hitchens says:

"The overwhelmingly young population—an ironic result of the mullahs' attempt to increase the birth rate after the calamitous war with Iraq—is fed up with medieval rule. Unlike the hermetic societies of Baathist Iraq and North Korea, Iran has been forced to permit a lot of latitude to its citizens. A huge number of them have relatives in the West, access to satellite dishes and cell phones, and regular contact with neighboring societies. ... Opinion polling is a new science in Iran, but several believable surveys have shown that a huge majority converges on one point: that it is time to resume diplomatic relations with the United States."

Christopher, I hope you're right. But what I find interesting is what Randi Rhodes said the other day: that Iran, so full of young people, was on its way to becoming westernized BEFORE we invaded and bombed Iraq. The youth were sick of the old mullahs with their fundamentalist archaic religiosity — and they were turning to the West for an exchange of ideas and fashion. Bush's Iraq war helped usher in a backlash in the democratic elections: the militant regimes of Hezbollah and Hamas won! People are so turned off to our form of dictatorship and "democracy" we set them back light years. We lost all these young Iranians who were on the brink of really befriending us — and we set back the peace process in the Middle East.

WHAT HAPPENED TO PRINCIPLES and morals? If you operate from principle you never have to worry. You dont' have to side with Israel when they overreact and bomb innocent civilians. Bush's neocons have no interest in what's right. They lie, cheat and steal. Obviously Bush doesn't really want peace. What a tragedy. But I know with enough love and prayer sent his way, we can help him.

646 comments:

  1. Anonymous7:08 PM

    THANK YOU LYDIA!! Oh my God, you have hit the nail on the head. Please do not get intimidated by the liars. You are so right about this.

    We have to pray like you said. We have to pray for Bush to gain sanity and a heart.
    Love to you and your family.
    James

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  2. GFeorge Bush does not know much about stem cell reserch, Karl Rove has been outed by the Chicago Tribune as lying about adult stem cells to promote them as an alternative just to have a presidental victory to hand the base, the very people that probably could use some of the cures that stem cell research could provide if georgie did not have his brain where god intended his rectum

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  3. Hmm. Ms. Cornell purports to "elevate" the dialog by calling Dubya "Pro-Death".

    I agree. I'm pretty sure this is a direct result of Christ's teaching that 72 virgins and free-flowing wine await all us guys who die in the cause of Christ.

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  4. Anonymous7:31 PM

    FF - Read her blog.

    Bush is definitely pro-war at any cost. I read Cornell's entire column It makes brilliant sense.

    Bush cares not a whit for human life. He even admitted he doesn't really understand human suffering and never could attend a funeral.

    Look at his track record as governor: death, death, and more death.

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  5. Look at his track record as governor: death, death, and more death.
    -steve

    It is abundantly unfair to accuse a governor of murder for legally enforcing his state's death penalty laws, if that is what you are cryptically implying.

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  6. Anonymous7:51 PM

    Not only did Bush laugh about people he executed, he denied even looking into cases of possibly innocent people because it didn't serve his base.

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  7. Regarding euthanasia [which for Clif, has nothing to do with kids in China]...

    I submit that taking someone, who is brain dead, off life support is morally different than giving Grandma a lethal injection because she is sometimes forgetful.

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  8. Volt said;

    one mans baby is anothers "medical waste"

    no "baby" lives in a petri dish..and the embyros in question are not to be implanted, but discarded, thus they are never going to be a baby..but either a possibility of medical break throughs..or medical waste bound for a approved dump...

    spin away but that is what we are really talking about here......



    medical break through..or a dump that is the choice...and bush chose the dump

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  9. fantasy bot said;

    I submit that taking someone, who is brain dead, off life support is morally different than giving Grandma a lethal injection because she is sometimes forgetful.


    thus removing terry schiavo feeding tube was legitamate as her husband had requested...before all the repug and christofascists stuck their noses in the shiavo's business...

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  10. Anonymous8:04 PM

    George Bush is very pro death. If he and his right wing extremist base want to claim to that Bush's veto was a moral decision then they are all guilty of severy hypocricy. If they really want to stand on the foundation of morality then they better start taking some serious self inventory of their own morality because they all crossed the morality line when they started collecting and freezing embryos. I'm not preaching against embryo freezing but it is very hypocritical to act like one is making a decision on the basis of morality when their entire presidency has been predicated on the foundations of immorality and lies.

    Of course, this veto should not mean much to a presidential administration that already has a lot of innocent blood on its hands due to its wasteful illegal and unconconstitutional military actions around the world. Just another link in the Bush chain and another dark chapter that will be added to Bush's legacy after he is out of office. He's been very predictable from day one...

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  11. Not only did Bush laugh about people he executed, he denied even looking into cases of possibly innocent people because it didn't serve his base.
    -anonypuss

    Bush did not laugh about murderers he executed. In the first Presidential debate, Bush laughed at AlGore and the NAACP's abominable suggestion that he was a racist who was soft on James Byrd's killers in Texas.

    Aside from itself being one of the most disgusting racist smears I have ever witnessed, this was indeed laughable since one of the killers was executed and the other was in prison for life.

    Yes anonypuss, maybe you could cite an example of someone who has ever been executed after receiving due process in the U.S., who later turned out to be innocent. I mean truly innocent, not someone who had their goofy Miranda rights violated or some such. Then I might listen to your silly drivel.

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  12. Dolt said:

    Clif

    Shiavo was simply being fed. She wasn't on "life support".


    but a feeding tube is a medical proceedure since it musty be surgically inserted and removed, thus she was not "just being fed" but a tube was surgically inserted, and her legal guardian asked to have it removed..WTF were the political hacks doing hovering around let alone flying back to dc in the middle of the night making law about a surgical procedure that was a choice her husband was entitled to make?

    family values until you do not like the choice then government intervention eh Volt?

    If this is as pleasant a way to die as Michael's vampire attorney claimed, How about we just starve prison inmates who are up for execution?


    First of all her brain had shrunk so she could not see hear or feel anything..which is not what would happen if your assinine suggestion was implimented...but why not ask the survivers of the holocaust if they agree with you about treating prisoners that way as that was whst the NAzi's did to many of them who could see and hear and feel and talk about it....

    Whatcha think Amnesty Internation would have to say about that?

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  13. Well worf, If you can't back up the supporting arguments, how can you back up the main one?
    -Voltaire

    Wharf does not feel it necessary to actually back up anything he says with facts.

    He just bears false witness about what his opponents didn't say, then insists that you "prove" that you didn't say it, as if this feat were possible.

    Apparently, just the smearing of someone is sufficient to convince liberals; they don't need actual facts.

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  14. Dolt said;

    The ones that HAVE been released from death row have been on legal technicalities.

    like actual innocence..which is what the innocence project does...find cases where DNA can prove the innocence or actual guilt,

    and they have found a few on death row who were proven by DNA to actually be innocent,

    that is the reason George Ryan stopped executions in Illinois, he found out some people found guilty beyond a reasonable doubt were actually innocent, because DNA proved they did not do the crime..somebody else did...

    But that don't count to dolt, because that is in the way of his repug wingnut rage..and he wants his rage over the facts

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  15. voltaire said...

    Clif, Her family had attested she didn't require the feeding tube. They HAD been spoon feeding her and giving her water until they were ordered to stop.

    but she could not swallow thus they family fought to keep the tubr...and they knew the day the tube was allowed to be removed she could not survive eating as god created us to....

    And if you are purporting to KNOW exactly WHAT she felt, then I suspect YOUR brain must be just as small and shriveled.

    I am not purporting just relying on the autopsy report which shows her brain shrunk and no possibility of neurological activity to maintain the sense of feeling let alone sight speach sound or feeling...but continue the facade of rage for your repug hate you spew here dolt old boy

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  16. FF said "Wharf does not feel it necessary to actually back up anything he says with facts.

    He just bears false witness about what his opponents didn't say, then insists that you "prove" that you didn't say it, as if this feat were possible.

    Apparently, just the smearing of someone is sufficient to convince liberals; they don't need actual facts."

    Glad you feel this way FF, maybe you will read your buddy Troll Tex the riot act for lying and claiming that we are anti-semetic and hate Israel and feel Israel doesnt have the right to exist without one fact or shred of evidence to back up his lie, he wasnt even man enough to apologize and admit he lied, so FF if you really hate others accusing people of being racists or bigots unjustly and spreading lies and slander about them, you will be a man and say so.

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  17. Volt why do you think his staff KNOW they MUST make a video of what they want him to see..because that is his mental base of functioning..show him a moving picture and maybe he'll respond but don't ask him to read because that is HARD WORK for the idiot in chief

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  18. Or have you missed how they got the idiot to understand Katrina was not a good thing?

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  19. Because he does not read much..in fact he probably did not even read the daily brief about Osama attacking the US in aug 2001, he just had somebody brief it to him, but with out the pretty pictures he did not understand so he just went on vacation and cut brush

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  20. No wonder they keep him out of the loop so much because making all those videos is hard work distilling the complex issues to cartoon fetures for the idiot to watch...

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  21. doltaire said...

    Well clif, lets just trapsie through ALL the hospitals in the land and remove ALL the feeding tubes of those who can't "eat as god created us to..."

    you still do not get it stupid do you?

    It ain't our choice...but the family members..and the husband of wife is usually the primary person in such a case..

    but you still want to controll everything like the repugs try to do all the time don't ya DOLT old boy

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  22. let me ask you this Dolt, you guys claim you dont want the government regulating things and sticking its nose in your business yet you seem to want them to legislate that families must legally keep people alive who are clinically dead in every sense that counts.

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  23. That is the real message of the Terry Schiavo case ...the repugs want to completely control everyone..for their benifit..they do not care about the facts because with their spin machine they can create their own facts to spew among people by idiots like limpballs O'Liely and MAnn the anorexic NAzi and they want everybodyt to be JUST like they are...sort of like the movie PLEASANTVILLE shows, everything is their way even if they have to outlaw things that others realise are good....

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  24. voltaire said...

    I remember a mayor who didn't implement his disaster plan and allowed a great number of school buses to get flooded out instead of using them to transport people away from the area.

    And I remember a governor who waited three friggin days before requesting federal assistance. (which MUST be done before the feds can send anyone in)

    at the same time as the leader of the entire nation went on a trip and ate cake..and played guitar...and begged for money from rich repugs hoping he would give back to them morre than they gave him..and the FEMA agency he was responsibile for was collapsing , but cake was more important to him on that day right dolt....

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  25. Because he was warned and they even had pictures..but he wanted that cake real bad so he would let his job slide for a day or so, because he is only the president and the worst hurricane in history was hitting the S but there was that cake...and he wanted it real bad

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  26. Hey Mike dolt is going to allow your family the rights the repougs stole from terry schiavo and her husband..he cares more about your rights than theirs don't ya just feel special dolt cares so much about your rights...

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  27. And I remember hearing GWB approved aid for South Florida days before the hurricaine even hit.........why was that, could it be that Jebby was governor and he wanted all the wealthy people down there to vote for him come election Time.

    But with New Orleans it was "just let the poor eat cake" right what was the difference other than Bush wanted to carry Florida and take care of the wealthy.

    And Dolt, no municiple, city or state government is prepaired to deal with a disaster of that magnitude, that is the Job of the federal government, and Frma and the president failed miserably.

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  28. Dolt that was rEAL big of you son..actually I salute your concern foir Mike's rights because repugs are normally trampling on people's rights

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  29. Dolt the defender of mike's rights and we promise not to turn ya in

    wait they are collecting all the traffic off the nodes right worfeus?

    too bad dolt they already got ya...but if ya tell us fi they show up to take you away for being such a bad traitor to the repug cabal we promise to protect us..make sure to mail us a letter so they can not track our conversations and we will be there as soon as we get it...we're right behind ya...

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  30. If you nee our adresses just ask you repug buddies at the NSA they know where we live....

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  31. dolt said;

    Clif,

    First off, Michael was her "husband" in name only. He was living for many years with another woman with whom he had children. He had clearly moved on.

    Secondly, he only "remembered" her wish to die 7 years AFTER she entered her coma. (entered under questionable circumstances)

    Thirdly, THAT was after recieving a huge insurance award that was SUPPOSED to go to her "rehabilitation" which only a small part did.

    Forth, Her PARENTS had offered to take complete responsibility for her, financially and otherwise.

    and every court said different dolt..put another dime in and try again

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  32. the court said Michael Schiavo was her next of kin and had the right to make sure her wishes were furfilled...thus in the end that was what happened..

    all for the sanctity of marriage until it gets in the way of a good election stragety eh boy?

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  33. Gee thanks Dolt I guess you guys arent hippocrites after all, I mean only a hippocrite would claim they care so deeply about human life and not give a ratts ass about all our soldiers being killed or the innocent civillians or the poor who are dying because they cant afford food or medical treatment......but you guys sure to care about protecting the clinically dead and the unborn...............wait I know why because they arent capable of free thought to disagree with you or oppose you, now if only you could get the brain dead to vote you guys would be all set going into the next election, you probably wouldnt even need to disenfranchise people who would vote democrat.

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  34. But don't let a littl;e thing likje their marriage stand in the way of the repug machine when it needs to rally the base right dolt old boy?

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  35. doltaire said...

    Well clif,

    Mikey certainly is "clinically dead in every sense that counts."

    And from his posting he is CLEARLY suffering and I just can't stand it.


    dolt give us the identity of you next of kin and we will see if the can help you out wirth your problemm, because your the one suffering as you can't stand it not mike....

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  36. But you could just do the rush thing and use enough drugs until you can stand it....or at least you

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  37. Voltaire said...

    Clif are you POSITIVE he "fulfilled" her wishes? Because other than his "word" 7 years AFTER the fact (and after a large chunck of cash landed in his lap that wasn't used as it should have been) there sure isn't any proof.

    the court believed it and they are what really matters here, so why do you repugs always rant against court decisions you do nto like but approve instantly those which have to be ONE time only decisions that have no precedent or are allowed to affect basic law according to the decision//

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  38. its all an election issues with you guys, you dont care about the living, just the unborn and the clinically dead.

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  39. Joe there was a dead girl in my congressional office after I was caught cheating on his wife before he suddenly decided to retire from congress sacrboy is on Colbert

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  40. voltaire said...

    Clif, tell me again about the "sanctity of marriage" when the "husband" has been living with another woman for many years and has children with her...

    why you asking me because tit was a court decision,

    Colbert asked Joe if he took money from Abramoff...and Joe got red...he got $1000 he admitted..to it at least after he got red because he was not ready for that question...

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  41. joe said...If we're living in an era now

    and stephen finished it for him..where being connected with a convicted felon keeps you from being elected to public office

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  42. dolt said;

    And as I recall the dems were recruiting voters from prisons where they had no legal right TO vote.

    backwards son choicepoint took a list ..some of which were TEXAS felons and threw off the rolls people in FLORIDA who had the same or similar names who were black

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  43. and choicepoint was working directally for Katherine Harris the chairperson of the elect the villege idiot from Texas committee at the same time she was secetary of stateresponsible for ensuring a truely fair election

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  44. Dolt who has his facts wrong again...how about KEN blackwell sending black soldiers in Iraq letters to their stateside home address with a no fowarding stamp on the envelope..and if the soldier did not reply he removed their name from the rolls of eligable voters...

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  45. that was just one of the slimely tactiocs the Ken Blackwell chairperson of the re-elect the country idiot ohio campaign at the SAME time he was secretary of state in OHIO responsible for ensuring a fair election...

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  46. And I remember hearing GWB approved aid for South Florida days before the hurricaine even hit.........why was that, could it be that Jebby was governor and he wanted all the wealthy people down there to vote for him come election Time.

    But with New Orleans it was "just let the poor eat cake" right what was the difference other than Bush wanted to carry Florida and take care of the wealthy.

    And Dolt, no municiple, city or state government is prepaired to deal with a disaster of that magnitude, that is the Job of the federal government, and Frma and the president failed miserably.

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  47. Dolt said "Yes worf, ONLY PRESIDENT.

    He ain't GOD."

    He thinks he is.

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  48. Volt said;

    Isuppose he deserves some of the blame, but not ALL of it. Mistakes were made on local, state AND federal levels.

    To solely blame Bush is ignorant

    volt i agree with what you said ..but the mayor was in new oOrleans where the uHurricane was hitting...in the city trying to do his job,

    the Governour was in Baton Rouge trying to do her best, but hampered a bit because the 256th Infantry Brigade was 9000 miles away in OIraq as the hurricane hit thus she was missing a very large part of the State of Louisians reponse which the pentagon should have replaced when it was apparant the Hurricane was going to hit..but she was at her office


    georgie not so much..he was not in DC where he could have made d3ecisions which would have pushed the pentagon to cut through the pred tape and push foward the recovery effort..and he could have jump started Chertoff from the Bird flu convention to focus on the Hurricane but he wanted cake instead of going to DC and doing the job he asked for

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  49. worfeus I do not disagree with your posts, but the major thing repugs gloss over real quick is...

    the mayor of New Orleans was on his job in the city at the city emergency headquarters they established

    and the Governour of Louisians was in the state capital at work for the people fo her state..but the national guard division stationed in Louisians was 9000 miles away fighting Bush's optional war, and they pentagon did not see fiot to replace them until 4 dats after the Hurricane hit..

    However Bush was not at work in DC...he went to McCains birthday party so he could eat cake...and the next day went to a fair and played guitar, before going to a repug fundraiser because we all know repug fundraisers are much more important that some people in a state and city thatr did not vote for the repugs drounding or losing everything they have.........

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  50. WORFEUS said...

    Medal of Freedom my ass.

    worf you don't get it the freedom was freedom for theidiot to lie all of us into a war we did not want with out the lies..and georgie gave the medal to the foole who knew that some of the intel was pure BULL

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  51. That meant he could lie with freedom...

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  52. Not to change the subject, but Fred Phelps, James Dobson, Jimmy Swaggert and Bush's cabinet are all perverts. How dare they talk about morality.

    Why are these sick fundamentalist neocons so immoral in every way, so corrupt and hateful and full of pride. They enrich themselves and condemn others, but they are the most immoral and perverted of all.

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  53. MaxMixt said...

    Not to change the subject, but Fred Phelps, James Dobson, Jimmy Swaggert and Bush's cabinet are all perverts. How dare they talk about morality.

    Why are these sick fundamentalist neocons so immoral in every way, so corrupt and hateful and full of pride. They enrich themselves and condemn others, but they are the most immoral and perverted of all.


    correct me if I am wrong but didn't Jesus know some of the same people in his time? weren't they called Pharisees or something like that?

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  54. Anonymous10:15 PM

    Truth and goodness will win out in the end. These war mongers can't feel good about senseless killing. the bombings in Lebanon are wrong no matter how you look at it.

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  55. hey James, welcome back, hope everything has been all right with you.

    And I have to believe that you are right that truth and goodness will win out in the end.

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  56. Mike given the problem Ralph reed had in his first election in Georgia might be part of the truth winning out after all, because he couldn't spin his way out of the lies he lived

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  57. Clif how do you think the elections will play out in the fall?

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  58. As of now the repugs look very vulernable, they do not have anything but Rovian spin and that is wearing pretty thin.

    The congressional races are not looking real good for them odds are they will lose the house, fby about 5-10 seats at least.

    The senate is more up in the air..

    they do have more races in trouble there..Dewine in Ohio..Talent in Missouri... Burns in Montana... among others and no democrat is very vulnerable except Liberman but that is because a democrat more in line with the democratic party is running against him

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  59. What do you think will happen with Bush trying to obstruct the investigation into his own warrantless domestic spying?

    ReplyDelete
  60. do you think that hinges on the democrats retaking congress, or do you think that could be an issue decided by the Supreme Court much like Bush's flagrant disregard of the Geneva Convention and due process.

    ReplyDelete
  61. Have you see these guys in here lately, TT and FF dont even have arguments anymore, its all lies, spin and intellectual dishonesty, they have nothing left.

    ReplyDelete
  62. Joe Scarbrougho also thinks the democrats are going to take it back..because the repugs have gotten way too comfortable...

    He said cut the debt bring 130,000 troops home..rap Duke Cunningham, Tom Delay, Jack Abramoff around the democrats neck NO problem the repugs could win

    But if they can't not that easy


    I mean the party of FISCAL responsibility has the largest deficit..and run up the largest national debt in history and they do not think it is a problem.... they have gotten way too comfortable

    ReplyDelete
  63. Mike with out an INDEPENDANT Congress Bush will continue to obstruct the Justice Department investigations..

    because he can and he sees not allowing any real investigation as a mandate for what he does....

    And the liberal press will still ignore the problem because they are soooo liberal

    ReplyDelete
  64. Clif did you here bernanke talking to the senate banking committee today, its almost like he's ending the rate hikes so there is a shorty rally right before the election.

    I've said for a while I think a recession will do Bush and the repugs in, i'm starting to think that recession may not come till 2007, I think the repugs will run the economy hot and try to spin away the inflation so things look good going into the election.

    ReplyDelete
  65. Clif that was awesome what you posted about Diane Feinstein ripping Gonzalez and making him look stupid.

    I really like Diane Feistein, I did a lot of research on the energy crisis/scam in California and Diane Feinstein was instrumentental in finding out what happened and helping to stop the corruption, I dug up floor debates and bills she sponsored etc...., she is a smart lady and a good person.

    ReplyDelete
  66. Worfeus I keep track here among other web sites..but this guy is on top of what your saying;

    http://www.jsmineset.com/

    ReplyDelete
  67. For fiscal reporting I go here also, because they do not bow to the washington story

    http://today.reuters.com/news/home.aspx

    I also check the Guardian financial news because they have a good reporting about what is happening and why..but do not have the big money over their heads like the WSJ has

    If the WSJ reported what bernanke was trying to do to hide the fiscasl problems until after november the markets would go wild..

    I personnaly think most repugs who are in the financial part of this Administration realise the country is tired of stupid repugs and want a much better president so they want to have the economy limp along at least till late 2008 and then if it tanks well they think democrats will be in power and they can spin it all the democrats fault because they do know how out of balance the fiscal situation is ands the day of reconing is comming they just want to delay it as long as possible and then try to spin the blame on the democrats...

    because they think they can play the role of FDR after the crash and try to control washington for decades like the democrats did

    ReplyDelete
  68. Clif, I like that site, i'll have to start going there, I usually go to Gold eagle they have good financial and political articles also.

    ReplyDelete
  69. Well interest rates is one way to play the market and they hide the fgact that foriegn investors are losing capital when they loan us money today but get back Inflated dollars which are worth much less when they get repaid..the interesst rates must be large enough to make up the difference..otherwise money would flow out fast, so the fed plays are to keep the foriegn money in the country and hold up the dollar against foriegn currencies until after november

    ReplyDelete
  70. I also watch CNBC on and off to see how the background economy behind the stats of the stock market are doing, and especially early before the US market is open because they report so much European and Asian news that gets no normal play in the MSM

    ReplyDelete
  71. Guys I want to apoligize if I got a little out of hand today, but I felt Troll Tex deserved everything he got, he attacks mostly Lydia but some of us as well trying to discredit us and accusing us of lying and not supporting what we say, so when he did what he accuses us of, I wasnt about to let him slither out of that one and i'm still not, he got caught in a lie and he didnt even apologize and say he was wrong, so from now on everythime he attacks one of us with his BS i'm going to bring that up.

    i'm done answering that guys questions till he starts answering mine.

    ReplyDelete
  72. Clif said " the fed plays are to keep the foriegn money in the country and hold up the dollar against foriegn currencies until after november"

    agreed thats why bernanke is raising 1/4 point at a time instead of 1/2 or 3/4 to get the fed fund rates to neutral territory, he's raising just enough to prop up the dollar till november, as long as rates are rising, even if they are rising slowly foreign investors will be patient and keep their money here, but once the fed stops ratcheting rates up, look out below for the dollar.

    ReplyDelete
  73. Mike I expect nothing less..because HOW long has the movie been over..but no answer as to the question I asked because either he answers yes Israel must up hold their international agreements as we tried to force Saddam to do and attacked partially(according to the wingnuts) because he wouldn't, but then they are not by their BOMBING so then he must say NO to support Israeli actions, but that makes US guilty of a double standard..demanding something of Saddam and Iraq we do not also demand of Israel honoring their signed agreements...no real way out so no answer and he slithered away knowing he was caught with out an answer...

    ReplyDelete
  74. BTW want to bet that he conviently forgets the question;

    which I'll repost for him to make it easier

    TT should Israel follow the Geneva Convention since they agree to do so?

    ReplyDelete
  75. talllTexan said...

    Clif, I'll answer that after this movie is over (30 minutes). TT

    5:30 PM

    this was the last post tonite from ther troll and he did not answer the question

    ReplyDelete
  76. But Worfeus violations of the Geneva convention is called a war crime..and that si what FF was blowing his gaskets over today the fact Noam Chomsky can show every president since Truman has violated it in one way or another...

    And the trials of Milosivich and Saddam are based on the ideals of the convention,

    ReplyDelete
  77. Mike you asked about the elections well after Reeds defeat Abramoff is a player again but not in the way repugs like this time

    Corruption Issue Comes to Fore
    Reed Is Seen as First Casualty, and Parties Brace for More

    While political corruption has failed so far to take root as a national issue, the defeat of scandal-stained Ralph Reed in Georgia on Tuesday showed that federal investigators could tip some key House and Senate races this fall, according to party strategists.

    Reed, a former top campaign official for President Bush and executive director of the Christian Coalition, lost the Republican primary for lieutenant governor after getting pounded by his opponent for his close and profitable relationship with convicted lobbyist Jack Abramoff, the central figure in an unfolding money-for-favors scandal. Reed was the first electoral victim of political corruption probes -- but officials in both parties said he probably won't be the last.

    Republicans worry that more than six candidates for the House and Senate could be hurt by Justice Department investigations, the courts and revelations in the Abramoff affair. Topping the list are Rep. Robert W. Ney (R-Ohio) and Sen. Conrad Burns (R-Mont.), both bruised by Abramoff connections and facing tough races.

    Anticipating more bad news, House GOP leaders are privately discussing a pre-election plan to compromise with the Senate on legislation clamping down on lobbyists and member perks, according to a GOP source familiar with the effort. The source, who discussed the plan on the condition of anonymity, said that if Ney or other Republicans are indicted, House leaders will drop their demands to include strict curbs on the special-interest election spending that favored Democrats in 2004 and quickly pass the lobbying bill to provide political cover to candidates.

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/07/19/AR2006071901714.html

    So expect more ranting and attacks as the repugs fear grows that they are going to LOSE power

    ReplyDelete
  78. Remember thr ports deal well they are trying to sneak a change through so deals like it would be LEGAL;

    REPORT: Oman Trade Pact Permits Foreign Ownership of U.S. Nat’l Security Assets


    In an explosive report tonight, top House Democrats discovered provisions in the controversial Oman Free Trade Agreement that would permit foreign ownership of U.S. ports and other key national security assets. Three Democrats and one Republican held an emergency press conference today to expose the provisions just before the House is scheduled to vote on the Oman pact on Thursday. As Reuters reports, "Rep. John Murtha, a Pennsylvania Democrat who serves on the House Defense Appropriations subcommittee, said the pact would allow companies such as Dubai Ports World to acquire U.S. port operations by establishing a shell company in Oman." Those provisions might also allow foreign ownership of other key national security assets, considering just after the recent Dubai Ports controversy, that country went ahead with plans to purchase a major U.S. defense contractor.

    http://www.workingforchange.com/blog/index.cfm?mode=entry&entry=849F046D-E0C3-F08F-991D793F942625E6

    This has already passed the senate..only the House stands in the way of the neo-con cabal getting the right to sell critical US infrastructure with basically NO review

    ReplyDelete
  79. I think Keith Olbermann has Mann's fearlessness about summed up correctly;

    And our winner -- speaking of: Coultergeist, who has now responded to an inquiry from a columnist at Women's Wear Daily, who wondered if she might still think her comments about The New York Times were funny after that newspaper got sent another envelope full of suspicious powder, which fortunately turned out to be corn starch. Ann Coulter wrote back: "So glad to hear that The New York Times got my letter."

    What do you think? Could she have really done it, or does she just wish she had? Nah -- it's the woman who once ran away screaming when she was attacked with a cream pie. Coultergeist: today's "Worst Person in the World."

    http://mediamatters.org/items/200607190001


    Mann coulterguist not only a chicken hawk extraordinaire she runs from pies...no wonder she bloviates sooooooooo much she is simply compensating for a very LOW self extreme besides what she sees in the mirror daily....

    ReplyDelete
  80. The Taliban’s Silent Partner

    WHEN the American-led coalition invaded Afghanistan five years ago, pessimists warned that we would soon find ourselves in a similar situation to what Soviet forces faced in the 1980’s. They were wrong — but only about the timing. The military operation was lean and lethal, and routed the Taliban government in a few weeks. But now, just two years after Hamid Karzai was elected as the country’s first democratic leader, the coalition finds itself, like its Soviet predecessors, in control of major cities and towns, very weak in the villages, and besieged by a shadowy insurgency that uses Pakistan as its rear base.

    Our backing of an enlightened government in Kabul should put us in a far stronger position than the Soviets in the fight to win back the hinterland. But it may not, and for a good reason: the involvement of our other ally in the region, Pakistan, in aiding the Taliban war machine is deeper than is commonly thought.

    The United States and NATO will not prevail unless they can persuade Pakistan’s president, Pervez Musharraf, to help us more than he has. Unfortunately, based on what senior Afghans have explained in detail to American officials, Pakistan is now supporting the Taliban in a manner similar to the way it supported the Afghan mujahedeen against the Soviets two decades ago.

    The Taliban has two leadership cells operating inside Pakistan, presumably with the guidance and logistical support of local authorities. Senior lieutenants to Mullah Muhammad Omar, the Taliban’s supreme leader, are ensconced in Quetta, the capital of the Pakistani province of Baluchistan. From there they direct military operations in the south-central Afghan provinces of Helmand, Kandahar, Uruzgan and Zabul.

    Meanwhile, one of the Taliban’s savviest military commanders, Jalaluddin Haqqani, and his sons operate out of Miramshah, the capital of the North Waziristan Province. From there, they run operations in Kabul and the eastern Afghan regions of Khost, Logar, Paktia and Paktika

    The Taliban even have shadow officials for small areas of Afghanistan, whose top officials live just over the border in Pakistan. Afghan villagers journey to Pakistan to seek justice for one grievance or another from these alternative figures.

    The situation is tragically simple: the very people we need to kill or apprehend we can’t get at, because they are in effect protected by our so-called ally, Pakistan. All we can do is win tactical battles against foot soldiers inside Afghanistan, who are easily replaced.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2006/07/20/opinion/20kaplan.html?th&emc=th


    Thus, just as in the 1980's the soviets never were able to go after the Afghanistan command and logistical base, neither can we...

    And as Cambodia and Laos provided the VC and NVA with a "safe haven" to run to...Pakistan is doing the same thing for the Taliban

    We can win all the battles with what is simply company level fighters, unless we can defeat their higher echelons and logistical support bases, we will be fighting a long but eventually futile war against an enemy who knows that TIME is on their side. Because if Musharraf is removed or dies, the replacement probably would be even more sympathetic to the Taliban. The new rulers of Pakistan will probably aid them even more than Musharraf does, allowing Pakistan's Intelligence unit known as the ISI to train the Taliban. They would quietly turn their head instead of fighting them and turning their leadership over to US forces.

    Instead we fight a war with not enough troops to fully control the area of operations, which gives the Taliban free rein in many rural areas of the country...and allows them to do as the Viet Cong did in Vietnam, seek symphatizers in the local population from which to get logistical aid, in the form of food, shelter, intelligence, transportation and most importantly new recruits to replace those they loose in battle.

    ReplyDelete
  81. It is nopt bad enough to "swiftboat" the veterans to aid repug canidates ...but the same firm who created the swiftboat adds...has distorted the 9-11 images for another repug canidate in OHIO...

    DeWine changes images in controversial ad

    Sen. Mike DeWine is changing the images of the burning World Trade Center towers in a campaign ad, but not for the reasons Democrats objected to it.

    DeWine's campaign spokesman, Brian Seitchik, called the image in the original ad a "graphic representation," produced by the advertising production firm Stevens Reed Curcio & Potholm.

    "The senator thought it depicted the actual events of 9-11 and when he found out that wasn't the case, he wanted an actual picture used," Seitchik said. "I don't think it would be noticeable to the naked eye."

    DeWine stood by the ad's message, but Brown's campaign expressed vindication.

    "So it was doctored!" said Brown spokeswoman Joanna Kuebler.

    The Ohio Democratic Party responded to the DeWine ad with their own on Tuesday, decrying the two-term senator for "exploiting images of 9-11 to smear Sherrod Brown."

    "Instead of being honest, he's using an ad that at first we knew distorted the facts, and now we know distorted the tragedy; that's shameful," Kuebler said.

    Stevens Reed Curcio & Potholm did not immediately return calls seeking comment. The firm also produced the controversial Swift Boat Veterans for Truth ads in 2004, which accused Democratic presidential nominee
    John Kerry of lying about his decorated Vietnam War record.

    http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060719/ap_on_go_co/ohio_senate

    Mann coulterguist attacks the 9-11 widows..and a sitting senator runs an ad which is painfully false and slanders the memory of those who lost their lives on 9-11...

    I wonder why repugs see the need to attack victums and distort the tragety for political gain, do they really have no regard for those who suffered much...

    Is their pathilogical need for power and control over the rest of us so inteense they are willing to stoop to this level?

    People will claim Dewine did not know but Stevens Reed Curcio & Potholm definately did and lying and smears..and callous disregard must be a repug character defect o0therwise they would not keep going to that well so often in their campaigns...

    ReplyDelete
  82. "Is George Bush Pro Death?"

    How could anyone think Bush is "Pro Death" when he professes to be a man of peace?

    How could anyone think Bush is "Pro Death" when he attacked a country with a worthless army, worn out weapons and stricken in poverty?

    How could anyone think Bush is "Pro Death" when he sits quietly by as Israel and forces in Lebanon are destroying each other?

    How could anyone think Bush is "Pro Death" when he is using the killings of thousands in Lebanon and Israel to plot his next "conquest" in Syria?

    How could anyone think Bush is "Pro Death" when he refuses to go to any dead soldiers funeral that he sent off to be killed in Iraq?

    How could anyone think Bush is "Pro Death" when he laid up on his ranch for days finishing up his bi-monthly vacation, while thousands were suffering and dying from Katrina?

    How could anyone think Bush is "Pro Death" when he issues his only veto in 5 years on a bill that could help research save the lives and suffering of millions?

    How could anyone think Bush is "Pro Death" after thinking about all these things and dozens more?

    How could anyone Not think that the "Master of Evil" is not "Pro Death"?

    ReplyDelete
  83. Anonymous5:29 AM

    VOLTAIRE SAID:
    If you want to experiment, use CORD blood, or ADULT stem cells...

    VOLTAIRE YOU ARE AN IDIOT. DO YOUR RESEARCH. ADULT STEM CELLS DO NOT DIFFERENTIATE.

    ReplyDelete
  84. Anonymous5:54 AM

    Great post Lydia. You are a true Christian. That's why you are being persecuted. You're right, forgive them for they know not what they do.

    ReplyDelete
  85. Troll Tex, what happened, you get lost after watching that last half hour of your movie?

    ReplyDelete
  86. clif said...
    BTW want to bet that he conviently forgets the question;

    which I'll repost for him to make it easier

    TT should Israel follow the Geneva Convention since they agree to do so?

    11:42 PM"

    Guys, I don't have time mountains of available time each and every day to spend here at this blog, but I catch up with the posts here, and at other blogs (both Liberal and Conservative) as soon as I can. I fell asleep after the movie, so Clif, here is my answer: I think all nations should adhere to their treaty obligations, which may include the Geneva Convention, where applicable, but I don't think these obligations should apply when a nation is in imminent danger of being annihilated. That would be like saying that if you are being chased by a serial killer in your car and he is taking pot shots from his car at you, you should obey the speed limit. If you did that you would get shot and killed, but the relatives at your funeral could say "[name of deceased] was a law-abiding man." But, I'm sure they would have preferred that you broke the speed limit and stayed alive.

    As to Mike, I will withdraw any insinuations of your and Lydia's anti-semitism if you withdraw all your comparisons of Republicans to Nazis. I think that is fair.

    Deal?

    ReplyDelete
  87. If Bush is pro-life, then "life" these days must mean death and torture. How can one explain his thirst for war and blood and chaos? If Bush calls himself pro-life, then he has a lot of nerve depriving others of cures to prolong life. Bush thinks using MEDICAL WASTE TO SAVE LIVES IS MURDER. But it's OKAY AS LONG AS PRIVATE COMPANIES USE THE STEM CELLS?!
    -Lydia Cornell

    I heartily agree with Bush's decision. In decades of trying, embryonic stem cell research has produced nothing, whereas adult stem cell research has produced a plethora of medical advances.

    This is why researchers in the private sector put all their money into adult stem cell research and other technologies which have actual potential of saving or improving human life.

    However, Bush's veto does nothing to stop embryonic stem cell research; it simply prevents the federal government from throwing even more money at this loser. If this technology really has such wonderful potential, someone in the private sector will fund it; isn't this where almost all medical advances originate?

    The only reason liberals luv this technology is not because it saves life or has the potential to save lives, quite the opposite. Libs luv embryonic stem cell "science" because it supposedly provides a lofty reason for killing the unborn:

    Anna Quindlen said "pro-choicers" were always "at a loss" when faced with the moral arguments in defense of an unborn baby. But with embryonic stem-cell research, the "battle of personification will assume a different and more sympathetic visage in the years to come" -- takeing the form of Michael J. Fox, Christopher Reeve, Ronald Reagan..."
    -Ann Coulter in Godless referring to "A New Look At An Old Battle" Newsweek April 9, 2001

    ReplyDelete
  88. Troll Tex said "As to Mike, I will withdraw any insinuations of your and Lydia's anti-semitism if you withdraw all your comparisons of Republicans to Nazis. I think that is fair.

    Deal?"

    actually Troll Tex that isnt fair because the difference is from asfar back as January I provided numerous examples of how the Bush administration are similar to the Nazi's and how they have adapted nazi type tactics to seize and increase their power and sway public opinion. See Troll Tex, I supported my position you did not.......so NO DEAL!!!

    ReplyDelete
  89. and as for your not having mountains of time to spend on this site, you spend pretty close to the same amount of time here as me, you are almost always in here before me or most everyone else!

    ReplyDelete
  90. "Mike said...
    and as for your not having mountains of time to spend on this site, you spend pretty close to the same amount of time here as me, you are almost always in here before me or most everyone else!

    8:49 AM"

    Probably because I go to bed earlier and get up very early. On some days I have more time than on others. Is that so prepostersous?

    The Nazis knew about PR. So does McDonalds. And Coke. And so did JFK and FDR. So, the basis for your comparison of Nazis to Republicans is weak and tenuous.

    But my proposition is fair. You only want others to withdraw their comments, but you won't do that yourself.

    ReplyDelete
  91. Anonymous8:57 AM

    Of course Lydia is an anti-semite,its blantly clear in her writtings.She's anti-Israel,pro terrorist,she should be wearing a burka.

    ReplyDelete
  92. See Troll Tex, acusations with out facts to back up your position is nothing more than slander!

    ReplyDelete
  93. So, Mike, you are asking me to do something that you won't do yourself. How very...Democratic of you! I knew you would weasel out of my deal, which I think is most fair.

    ReplyDelete
  94. See Troll Tex starting in January to as recently as last week I have posted numerous examples and arguments to support my position on how the Bush Administration is similar to the Nazi's the most recent being last week when I posted the comparison of how the Nazi's seized power via the Reichstag fire with how Bush seized power via 9/11, both used these events to get people and legislation in place to further increase and cement their power and influence.

    you made an accusation with no facts to back up what you said, because there were no facts to support your position......YOU FLAT OUT LIED its that simple!!!!

    ReplyDelete
  95. Keep trying to spin your way out of this one Troll Tex, I find it amusing!

    ReplyDelete
  96. Anonymous9:10 AM

    "Dems have never found a fight they could'nt run from."

    ReplyDelete
  97. Mike, GWB assumed power via the democratic process on Jan. 20, 2001. 9/11 happened eight months later. Your theory has been disproved.

    You are an example of someone who can dish it out but can't take it. If you don't want me calling you an anti-Semite, don't call me and my GOP brethren Nazis. It's that simple. My offer is still on the table.

    ReplyDelete
  98. Anonymous9:12 AM

    "Liberals can never abdondon the idea that we can soothe the savage beast with appeasment weather they are dealing with murderers like Willie Horton or Islamic terrorist...then the beast eats you."

    ReplyDelete
  99. you guys seem to be doing the running, you guys have told so many lies and spin you cant even debate the issues anymore without being hippocrites, you guys are in trouble come November.

    ReplyDelete
  100. Hitler was chancelor before the Reichstag fire so my comparison stands, the Reichstag fire and 9/11 were enablers.

    and if you call me or Lydia anti semetic without providing proof you are guilty of slander and lying and everyone here knows it.

    ReplyDelete
  101. Anonymous9:18 AM

    Of course these far lefties are anti-semites.They condem Isreal yet call terrorist freedom fighters.They have sympathy for suicide bombers who kill innocent's but again condem Israel because some cilvilians have been killed in the bombing.

    ReplyDelete
  102. Anonymous9:19 AM

    You guys are so transparent.

    ReplyDelete
  103. Lets get something straight troll tex, i'm not trying to appease you, you are the one that got caught in a lie, so either man up, or i;m going to use this every time you pull your troll tactics.

    ReplyDelete
  104. Anonymous9:20 AM

    The "proof" is available everyday by what you say moron.

    ReplyDelete
  105. Anonymous9:21 AM

    Or is it "Crisco boy?"

    ReplyDelete
  106. whats with the anonymous insults Eric are you getting upset, wouldnt want people to think your Troll Tex persona lost its cool!

    ReplyDelete
  107. Like I said yesterday Eric, if you are the best the repugs got, then you clowns are in serious trouble come November!

    ReplyDelete
  108. Anonymous9:24 AM

    Wrong again Crisco kid.

    ReplyDelete
  109. Anonymous9:26 AM

    I told you Mike you're like that guy in the Fed-Ex commercial..you're alway wrong..We dont get French benefits,Steely Dan is'nt one guy. What a dope.

    ReplyDelete
  110. I was talking to Troll Tex johnny, I can tell the difference between you two clowns, at least TT "TRIES" to sound intelligent.

    ReplyDelete
  111. "Liberals can never abdondon the idea that we can soothe the savage beast with appeasment weather they are dealing with murderers like Willie Horton or Islamic terrorist...then the beast eats you."
    -anonypuss

    Liberals seem to have enthusiastically embraced Christ's suggestion to "love thine enemy"; it's their friends whom they just can't stand.
    -Freedom Fan

    Libs weep and hold candlelight vigils for vicious murderers like tookie williams who founded the crips gang which has terrorized Los Angeles for decades.

    Similarly they shriek endlessly about the hezbollah suicide bombers getting the stuffings knocked out of them in Lebanon by our friends the Israelis, who are fighting for their right to peacefully co-exist with these murderous maniacs.

    Libs accuse Dubya of being "Pro-Death" for refusing to use federal funds to waste on embryonic stem cell research, which has little chance of ever saving anyone.

    However, libs like barbara boxer seem to think that it's dandy when a viable kid has his brains punctured and sucked out in the course of committing a third semester partial-birth abortion.

    ReplyDelete
  112. But Troll Tex whats the matter????

    Dont slither away mad, just slither away period!

    ReplyDelete
  113. Let's think happy thoughts and try to understand the root cause of why Islamic terrorists hate us.

    Gee do you suppose that burkhas come in beige?

    /channelling goofy lib women

    ReplyDelete
  114. This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

    ReplyDelete
  115. Was it something I said Troll Tex????

    ReplyDelete
  116. FF I still havent heard you condemn your buddy troll tex for basically calling us rascists and bigots with no proof to support his position, I thought you despise that kind of slander and character assassination FF?

    ReplyDelete
  117. Anonymous11:16 AM

    Breaking new's,Bobby Bonds was NOT indicted today.....in other news neither was Karl Rove.

    ReplyDelete
  118. Anonymous11:19 AM

    Where did the code pink boys go? They must be out somewhere holding hands singing Kombaya.

    ReplyDelete
  119. Anonymous11:24 AM

    Did you see those heroic Israeli freedom fighting pilots dropped 23 tons of bombs on that bunker.We should send them a couple of those Daisy Cutter's that we have,while the turbaned heathens fired rockets into Nazareth killing two young arab boys.

    ReplyDelete
  120. Anonymous12:26 PM

    To the neocons: regarding Tookie Williams, what does redemption mean to you? What does it mean to be redeemed?

    ReplyDelete
  121. Anonymous12:32 PM

    worry not peace the price off, but

    mine biggen kiss ---

    ReplyDelete
  122. Anonymous12:40 PM

    I have the largest dark

    sarbe of padme light as seen yet

    http://cdn.fastclick.net/fastclick.net/cid45860/media95508.gif

    ReplyDelete
  123. Fantasy bot said;

    Libs accuse Dubya of being "Pro-Death" for refusing to use federal funds to waste on embryonic stem cell research, which has little chance of ever saving anyone.


    More happy happy joy joy the fanstay bot is not just the freedom cop, and the religion cop, he is pretending to be a scientist,, a clarvoyant one at that..Oh happy day we are blessed with somebody who can tell us what will work in biological reserch with out even doing it...are we the most lucky people around...or is he just a dunce as usual?

    ReplyDelete
  124. Yeah, looks like he's spamming the blog again.

    ReplyDelete
  125. BTW trolltiny testicles..I answered the question directally and answered each point you raised...you not so much..

    You actually avoided the question by giving a generic answer and then trying to qualify it by saying that a treaty which the geneva convention is, which is specifically about a countries actions in WARTIME is fine until wartime, like Israel leadership was not smart enough to understand that bny signing the treaty about what they would not do in war time should not be what they should be held accountable when they are at war....how consistant of you boy...nice repug weasel trick there,

    BUT sorry I can't say the same as you said...

    talllTexan said...

    Actually, Clif, that was a pretty decent answer. I don't agree 100%, but it was a good answer.

    ReplyDelete
  126. Tiny inTellect said;

    Guys, I don't have time mountains of available time each and every day to spend here at this blog,


    "even though I do a lot of the time, but please ignore that fact during this attempt to evade the question while pretending to answer the question, thank you"


    but I catch up with the posts here, and at other blogs (both Liberal and Conservative) as soon as I can.


    "like when I can think of something to say to spin my way out of answering the question as usual,"

    I fell asleep after the movie, so Clif, here is my answer:

    poor poor TT...blogging is HARD WORK


    I think all nations should adhere to their treaty obligations,


    I did not ask all nations I asked directally about Israel...


    which may include the Geneva Convention,

    It does include the Geneva Convention......which Israel signed thus they agreed to abide by it....

    where applicable,

    this must mean while Israel is at war or using military force, JUST LIKE THEY ARE DOING RIGHT NOW....


    but I don't think these obligations should apply when a nation is in imminent danger of being annihilated.

    Nice spin, but ,

    1 Inaccurate in the present situation, the kidnapping of three Israeli soldiers will not be the proximate cause of the total collapse of the country of Israel..

    2 the rocket attacks which are deplorable, actually do limited damage, compared to the damage Israel is causing to the country of Lebanon, which actually copuld cause the government of Lebanon collapse, thus your assertation is reversed....

    3 The Israelis and any other country if involved with an enemy in combat does take the chance that, however Hezbollah does not have the military capabilities of causing the collapse of the state of Israel, even thoiugh they can cause terrible damage to the northern part of the country, remember Hezbollah has yet to even strike at Telaviv,,let alone cripple it's infrastructure, and cause 500,000 refugees....as usual repug operative gets it backwards...


    That would be like saying that if you are being chased by a serial killer in your car and he is taking pot shots from his car at you, you should obey the speed limit.


    NBo because you did not agree to abide by the speed limit in such an extreme situation, and no law enforcement officer would expect that,

    however the international community does expect the leadership of a nation to do so, otherwise they can end uop like Milosivich, or Saddam...

    And BTW your analogy is not a comparable situation, because no Individual has the resources and capabilities as a country does, thus your comparing apples to sand, not even remotely similar...

    If you did that you would get shot and killed, but the relatives at your funeral could say "[name of deceased] was a law-abiding man."

    Ah the typigcal repug emotional spin to hide the fact their argument is made up of verbal cow pies...


    But, I'm sure they would have preferred that you broke the speed limit and stayed alive.


    same repug emotional spin, but not relevant..as usual...spin, distract, but do not accurately answer the question directally..that would be too honest and repugs can't have that...


    BTW do you have an actual answer to the question?

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  127. I think the trolls are regrouping after the beatings they taken almost everyday for the last week.

    as for FF, he hasnt had a coherent argument in months and months, he resorts to dishonesty and sweeping generalizations that are not true......Like donny Deutche said to Coulter, the mythical animal you are portraying as a liberal DOES NOT EXIST!

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  128. Mike said;

    Like donny Deutche said to Coulter, the mythical animal you are portraying as a liberal DOES NOT EXIST!

    but mike, it does in their delusional minds, which is why they spew such venon and bile, because we will not validate their delusions, thus call into question other delusions they have..ALA fantasy bots self image..he wants us to believe...

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  129. Troll Tex said "Guys, I don't have time mountains of available time each and every day to spend here at this blog,"

    This reminds me of another brilliant quote from repug Ben Bernanke, Bernanke said something to the effect that "we need to keep inflationary expectations contained because it is crucial that we keep inflationary expectations contained"

    Great explantion Ben, you do you fellow repugs pround with your your amazing facts and brilliant logic!

    ReplyDelete
  130. Fascist Fan hasnt answered one of my questions since the dark ages, if I were these guys i'd be too ashamed to show my face I mean their arguements get shot down faster than a scud missile in the Gulf War and they havent been able to respond to our questions or arguments at all, at least Dolt makes the attempt, the others just run away, change the subject or start the slander and personal attacks.

    ReplyDelete
  131. 100 Iraqi being killed each day, says UN

    The number of Iraqis being killed each day in Iraq is now around a hundred according to figures released by the UN. One hundred. Each day. Every day.

    As Ghandi stated, "What difference does it make to the dead, the orphans, and the homeless, whether the mad destruction is wrought under the name of totalitarianism or the holy name of liberty and democracy?"

    Bush and Blair have exported death and labelled it democracy. Surely we cannot look at the slaughter taking place on the streets of Iraq and call that democracy? To do so would be Orwellian. As Shakespeare aptly puts it, "It out-Herod's Herod. Pray you avoid it."


    That they could have the gall to do what they have done in Iraq, to unleash the forces that they have unleashed - which they obviously have no way of controlling - that they could cause this level of carnage and then look us in the eye and dare to label it "Democracy" says as much about our democratic system's faults as it does about the sham democracy we have supposedly exported to Iraq.

    Surely in a real democratic system the men responsible for this appalling situation would have been driven from power? Surely they would face such public disapprobation that they would be forced to live in shame in any system in which the power truly resided with the electorate?

    But yet, there the two of them still sit: Shameless.

    After Suez, which was in no way a disaster on the scale of the Iraq debacle, Anthony Eden offered his immediate resignation. That Bush and Blair have not been forced to do the same debases us all.



    http://the-osterley-times.blogspot.com/2006/07/100-iraqis-being-killed-each-day-says.html

    No wonder Putin said to Bush;

    “We Do Not Want The Same Kind of Democracy As Iraq”


    WHO WOULD?

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  132. There was NO WMD and there is no democracy in Iraq.....too bad that was the best excuses they had to invade a country and, cause a nation to become in imminent danger of being annihilated.


    But it looks like it has been annihilated..by the actions of Bush Cheney and Rumsfeld,

    and they still hold on to their delusions and fantasy thinking, as bad as Hitler did in 1945.

    The only difference was he had fantasy armies..and they have a fantasy democracy

    ReplyDelete
  133. "What difference does it make to the dead, the orphans, and the homeless, whether the mad destruction is wrought under the name of totalitarianism or the holy name of liberty and democracy?"

    Gandhi

    ReplyDelete
  134. The Rant
    Bush: Constitution 'just a goddamn piece of paper'
    By DOUG THOMPSON
    Dec 9, 2005, 05:51



    Last month, Republican Congressional leaders filed into the Oval Office to meet with President George W. Bush and talk about renewing the controversial USA Patriot Act.

    Several provisions of the act, passed in the shell shocked period immediately following the 9/11 terrorist attacks, caused enough anger that liberal groups like the American Civil Liberties Union had joined forces with prominent conservatives like Phyllis Schlafly and Bob Barr to oppose renewal.

    GOP leaders told Bush that his hardcore push to renew the more onerous provisions of the act could further alienate conservatives still mad at the President from his botched attempt to nominate White House Counsel Harriet Miers to the Supreme Court.

    "I don't give a goddamn," Bush retorted. "I'm the President and the Commander-in-Chief. Do it my way."

    "Mr. President," one aide in the meeting said. "There is a valid case that the provisions in this law undermine the Constitution."

    "Stop throwing the Constitution in my face," Bush screamed back. "It's just a goddamned piece of paper!"

    I've talked to three people present for the meeting that day and they all confirm that the President of the United States called the Constitution "a goddamned piece of paper."

    And, to the Bush Administration, the Constitution of the United States is little more than toilet paper stained from all the shit that this group of power-mad despots have dumped on the freedoms that "goddamned piece of paper" used to guarantee.

    Attorney General Alberto Gonzales, while still White House counsel, wrote that the "Constitution is an outdated document."

    Put aside, for a moment, political affiliation or personal beliefs. It doesn't matter if you are a Democrat, Republican or Independent. It doesn't matter if you support the invasion or Iraq or not. Despite our differences, the Constitution has stood for two centuries as the defining document of our government, the final source to determine ­ in the end ­ if something is legal or right.

    Every federal official ­ including the President ­ who takes an oath of office swears to "uphold and defend the Constitution of the United States."

    ReplyDelete
  135. BTW trolls people are starting to notice;

    It's All Kerry's Fault


    Conservatives are priceless. When they finally notice that American foreign policy is a disaster, they still can't place responsibility where it belongs.

    "Kenneth Adelman, a Reagan administration arms-control official who is close to Vice President Cheney, said he believes foreign policy innovation for White House ended with Bush's second inaugural address, a call to spread democracy throughout the world.

    'What they are doing on North Korea or Iran is what [Sen. John F.] Kerry would do, what a normal middle-of-the-road president would do,' he said. 'This administration prided itself on molding history, not just reacting to events. Its a normal foreign policy right now. It's the triumph of Kerryism.'"

    Um. Excuse me. It is the triumph of Bush/Cheneyism, and don't think we are going to let you forget it.

    A$$holes.

    http://chasecuts.blogspot.com/2006/07/its-all-kerrys-fault.html

    ReplyDelete
  136. Yeah Clif to these fools all things like democracy or the constitution are, are words and pieces of paper.

    And BTW, the principles outlined in the constitution are timeless much like the Golden Rule, it is these throwbacks running our country that are outdated thugs and criminals.

    ReplyDelete
  137. The Dangerous Fantasy of Peaceful Arab Intent

    By Edward Alexander
    Special to The Times

    The two-front war launched against Israel by the Hamas and Hezbollah branches of the worldwide Islamic fascist movement — the same folks who brought us the recent Bombay massacre, to say nothing of 9/11 and the London Underground abattoir of last summer — has shattered many lives, and will undoubtedly destroy many more.

    Is there any hope that it will also shatter illusions tenaciously held by accredited experts on the Arab-Israeli "conflict" (more accurately called the Arab — also Iranian — war against Israel)?

    For nearly 40 years, academic Middle East experts and State Department inventors of quixotic "peace plans" have insisted that Israeli occupation of "Arab lands" causes Arab hatred and terror and is the "root cause" of the conflict; end the occupation, they have always said, and all will be well.

    How, then, is it that, starting the very day after its withdrawal from Gaza last year and six years after its unilateral retreat from Lebanon, Israel is under attack from both those places?

    Would it not be closer to the truth to say that terror is caused far less by Israeli military occupation than by the removal of that occupation?

    Complete removal of Israeli forces and Jewish residents from an area achieves nothing except to invite greater terror and aggression from people who use every meter of land they control not to build their own state but to destroy an existing state.

    This is why the idea — promoted by virtually every recent American (and Israeli) administration — of two sovereign entities, Jewish and Arab, between the Jordan River and the Mediterranean is dangerous fantasy.

    What, except historical amnesia, could have made the experts forget that it was Arab hatred and aggression that led, in 1967, to occupation, and not occupation that led to Arab hatred and violence? For 19 years, starting in 1948, the Arabs had full possession of the "West Bank," theirs to do with whatever they chose, and — as always — what they chose was not an independent Palestinian state but incessant terrorist attacks on Israel.

    Fences afford Israel only temporary and partial protection; they cannot keep out rockets and missiles, such as have been raining down on Israeli towns in the south of the country ever since Hamas won the election in Gaza (a voting result that could have come as a surprise only to the experts, including Condoleezza Rice). Unless Israel controls both sides of its borders, it can have no security against invaders bent on raw murder.

    Can anything positive emerge from the current carnage? Perhaps. Since Hezbollah has over the years killed hundreds of Americans (most notably the Marines in Lebanon) without ever paying a price, its destruction by Israel would constitute a major American victory; the same may be said of Hamas, whose agents of mass murder are already operating in America.

    Perhaps the incessant nattering about "the occupation" will finally give way to a recognition that the real "root cause" of Middle Eastern wars is a genocidal Islamicist culture, which must be uprooted by a process roughly akin to the denazification of Germany after World War II.

    Perhaps the Israeli politicians who were so proud of their flight from Lebanon and Gaza will conjure the ghost of Winston Churchill rebuking arch-appeaser Neville Chamberlain: "You were given the choice between war and dishonor. You chose dishonor, and you will have war."

    Perhaps — but maybe this is too much to hope — even our Middle East experts in this country (who bear a large portion of responsibility for our mental unpreparedness for 9/11) will be subject to liability laws for scholarly malpractice of the sort that have long been in place for medical malpractice.

    Edward Alexander is emeritus professor of English at the University of Washington and co-author (with Paul Bogdanor) of "The Jewish Divide Over Israel: Accusers and Defenders" (Transaction Publishers).

    From: The Seattle Times

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  138. anyone who reads what Bush and Gonzalez said about the Constitution and doesnt get sick to their stomach then angry isnt a part of the human race or an American.

    ReplyDelete
  139. There's troll tex, hey did you find any evidence to prove we are anti semetic yet Eric????

    I wont hold my breath though.

    ReplyDelete
  140. "Mike said...
    There's troll tex, hey did you find any evidence to prove we are anti semetic yet Eric????

    I wont hold my breath though.

    2:22 PM"

    Who the heck is "Eric"?

    I answered all your questions. You just didn't like the answers.

    ReplyDelete
  141. Lookie TT has time to post but not enough to actually directally answer the question even though HE was the troll who rambled on for dats with a question about WW2 while we were discussing the current crisis, must be some sort of time lag thaty living in a delusional fantasy land causes....they want to understand the moral relevance of actions we took in the 1040's, but this is 2006, hate to pop the delusional bubble

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  142. Tiny Intellect said;


    I answered all your questions.


    "Even though I really didn't and hoped you all would miss that with all the mental cow pies I was throwing...."


    You just didn't like the answers.


    No son it was the lack of an answer we question

    ReplyDelete
  143. repugs people are on to yyour dishonesty, and some of them actually have some power to do something about it;

    Judge rules against government in spying lawsuit

    SAN FRANCISCO (AP) - A government bid to dismiss a lawsuit challenging the Bush administration's domestic spying was rejected Thursday by a federal judge who said it didn't deserve ``state secret'' protection because it had been widely reported.

    U.S. District Judge Vaughn Walker said a case could go forward over AT&T's alleged involvement in President Bush's surveillance program adopted after the Sept. 11 terror attacks.

    ``The compromise between liberty and security remains a difficult one,'' Walker wrote in his ruling. ``But dismissing this case at the outset would sacrifice liberty for no apparent enhancement of security.''


    http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercurynews/business/technology/15084345.htm

    ReplyDelete
  144. You did not answer one of my questions Eric because it wasnt a question, it was a challenge to provide evidence that we are anti semetic or hate israel, or admit you are lying........so either man up and admit you are lying or provide that evidence Eric.

    ReplyDelete
  145. And Troll Tex, you are Eric, if you are too dumb to answer to your own name thats your problem.

    ReplyDelete
  146. Mike TT's name is Eric..

    wonder what FF's name is..MARVIN?

    and Voltaire...probably Leslie...

    but Johnny is Sybil and we all know that...

    ReplyDelete
  147. was it something I said Troll Tex, dont leave mad LOL :D

    ReplyDelete
  148. Let me guess, Mike: Eric is your former lover who you suspect in the alleged (and non-existent) hack attack on your computer.

    ReplyDelete
  149. Lookie TT has time to play personnal games, but not actually answer the question like he ADMITTED I DID,

    Instead he tries to ignore it and climb back into the bubble of delusion

    ReplyDelete
  150. sorry bro but Eric is you!

    but its kind of funny how certain subjects hold your attention like my getting hacked and your identity, but others like that proof that we are anti semetic seems to escape your ADHD chalenged attention span Troll Tex

    ReplyDelete
  151. GOP Lawmakers Edge Away From Optimism on Iraq

    Faced with almost daily reports of sectarian carnage in Iraq, congressional Republicans are shifting their message on the war from speaking optimistically of progress to acknowledging the difficulty of the mission and pointing up mistakes in planning and execution.

    Rep. Christopher Shays (Conn.) is using his House Government Reform subcommittee on national security to vent criticism of the White House's war strategy and new estimates of the monetary cost of the war. Rep. Gil Gutknecht (Minn.), once a strong supporter of the war, returned from Iraq this week declaring that conditions in Baghdad were far worse "than we'd been led to believe" and urging that troop withdrawals begin immediately.

    And freshman Sen. John Thune (S.D.) told reporters at the National Press Club that if he were running for reelection this year, "you obviously don't embrace the president and his agenda."

    "The first thing I'd do is acknowledge that there have been mistakes made," Thune said.

    Rank-and file Republicans who once adamantly backed the administration on the war are moving to a two-stage new message, according to some lawmakers. First, Republicans are making it clear to constituents they do not agree with every decision the president has made on Iraq. Then they boil the argument down to two choices: staying and fighting or conceding defeat to a vicious enemy.

    The shift is subtle, but Republican lawmakers acknowledge that it is no longer tenable to say the news media are ignoring the good news in Iraq and painting an unfair picture of the war. In the first half of this year, 4,338 Iraqi civilians died violent deaths, according to a new report by the U.N. Assistance Mission for Iraq. Last month alone, 3,149 civilians were killed -- an average of more than 100 a day.

    "It's like after Katrina, when the secretary of homeland security was saying all those people weren't really stranded when we were all watching it on TV," said Rep. Patrick T. McHenry (R-N.C.). "I still hear about that. We can't look like we won't face reality."

    Said Gutknecht: "Essentially what the White House is saying is 'Stay the course, stay the course.' I don't think that course is politically sustainable."

    Rep. Jim Gerlach (Pa.), who like Shays is a swing-district Republican facing a tough reelection race, has introduced legislation to create clear measurements of progress in Iraq, in such areas as government stability and territory under the control of Iraqi forces.

    On Tuesday, Shays joined U.S. Comptroller General David M. Walker in criticizing unreliable cost estimates of a war that is nearly 3 1/2 years old. Shays said the Defense Department has not "had respectful [cost] accounts since the end of World War II," adding that he hopes the agency will withstand an audit in his lifetime.

    Gerlach took a similar road.

    "Congress needs to be more proactive and aggressive in evaluating what is the progress in Iraq," he said. "The Iraqi government shouldn't feel like it's got a blank check on American lives and American dollars."

    Even Democrats say they see a change in tone on the other side of the aisle.

    "I think there is a lot less arrogance about the war in Iraq than there once was -- and people are much more sober in their assessment," said Rep. Chris Van Hollen (Md.).

    The evolving Republican message on the war contrasts with the strong rhetoric used by House and Senate Republicans recently in opposing a deadline for withdrawal from Iraq. During a debate last month, Gutknecht intoned, "Members, now is not the time to go wobbly." This week, he conceded "I guess I didn't understand the situation," saying that a partial troop withdrawal now would "send a clear message to the Iraqis that the next step is up to you."

    "If we don't take the training wheels off, we will be in the same place in six months that we're in today," he said.

    Republicans and some conservative Democrats who have backed the president's call to stay the course are finding it increasingly difficult to square their generally optimistic rhetoric with the grim situation on the ground in Baghdad and other cities.

    "This escalating trend . . . represents the greatest danger to Iraq as it threatens to erode the government's authority," Ashraf Qazi, the U.N. envoy to Baghdad, said in a statement. "The emerging phenomenon of Iraqis killing Iraqis on a daily basis is nothing less than a catastrophe."

    But it is the nature of the violence that may be forcing Republicans and some Democrats to temper their public assertions about the war -- even as they insist that the administration cannot pull out without precipitating an even worse situation. Masked attackers wielding heavy machine guns have killed Shiite mothers and children in a market and hauled Sunnis off buses to be slaughtered in broad daylight. A suicide car bomber killed 53 Tuesday in Baghdad after he beckoned a crowd of day laborers to his explosives-laden minivan.

    Last week, House Majority Leader John A. Boehner (R-Ohio) issued a statement hailing the turnover of Iraq's Muthanna province to Iraqi security forces under the headline "Progress in Iraq . . . Despite Doomsday Democrats."

    On Tuesday, there was little talk of progress as he insisted that the rising sectarian violence was "nowhere close to civil war."

    "Look, you have got one of two options," Boehner said. "We can pull out, walk away and watch everything that we've worked for and the Iraqis worked for fall apart and watch pure civil war break out, or we can stay the course. . . . As difficult as the problems are on the ground, it is either one of two options."

    Republicans, especially those in swing districts, had no choice but to shift the emphasis of their war talk, lawmakers said. "The Iraq issue is the lens through which people are looking at the federal government," said Rep. Charles W. Dent (Pa.), another swing-district Republican. "That is the issue to most people. There's no question about that."

    To pretend the war is resolving itself nicely is no longer an option, he said.


    http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/07/19/AR2006071901787.html


    Too bad their honesty was trumped by politics before they realises that politics requires honesty of at least a modicum amount of it for reelection, and they are grugingly giving it up at last

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  152. "Is Bush Pro Death?"

    Bombings and shootings in Iraq rose 40% according to the US Military.

    Doesn't that answer the question?

    ReplyDelete
  153. July 20, 2006

    We Must Do Whatever It Takes
    By Ed Koch

    It's long been said that when war comes, truth is the first casualty. War has come to Israel, Gaza and Lebanon. Let us remember the truth about how this war started.

    In Gaza, Hamas terrorists dug a half-mile tunnel into Israel, killing two Israeli soldiers and taking one prisoner. The Israeli army responded by counter-attacking the Gaza Strip, which is now ruled by a Hamas government. Since its recent election to power, the Hamas government has not only refused to recognize the State of Israel, it has restated its goal of destroying Israel and replacing it with a single Islamic state running from the Jordan River to the Mediterranean Sea. Hamas will not recognize any prior agreements made by Arafat with Israel. The Hamas regime has publicly endorsed the use of terror -- the killing of Israeli civilians in Israel -- to achieve its goals.

    Israel is now engaged in destroying the ability of the Hamas government to achieve those goals. Israel is seeking to make it as difficult as possible to wage a war of terrorism against Israel, including the firing of missiles into Israel. The Israeli Defense Force (IDF) has entered the Gaza Strip from which it had totally withdrawn, having painfully removed every Israeli and destroyed every Israeli settlement in Gaza, leaving that area, which was occupied in biblical days by the Philistines and, their champion, Goliath.

    The Western world in different degrees has responded with an understanding of the need for Israel's response to Hamas' acts. President Bush has from the beginning of the hostilities repeatedly said, "Israel has a right to defend herself. Every nation must defend herself against terrorist attacks and the killing of innocent life."

    A second front was opened on Israel's border with Lebanon on July 11th, with Hezbollah crossing Israel's border killing eight Israeli soldiers and taking two soldiers prisoner. Hezbollah has rained more than 1,000 missiles down on Israel, inflicting 24 deaths and 300 casualties. Hezbollah is part of the Lebanese government having several cabinet ministers and 13 members of parliament. Hezbollah has been ceded by the Lebanese government the right to control southern Lebanon and its border with Israel. The leader of Hezbollah, Sheik Hassan Nasrallah, has threatened before and during these latest hostilities the destruction of the State of Israel.

    Israel began its war against Hezbollah warning the President of Lebanon that if the Lebanese government would not or could not carry out its international responsibility to prevent Hezbollah from attacking Israel from Lebanon, Israel would do the job for them.

    To the surprise of many observers, the members of the G-8 meeting in St. Petersburg issued a unanimous statement supporting Israel's right to self defense, stating in part,

    "The immediate crisis results from efforts by extremist forces to destabilize the region and to frustrate the aspirations of the Palestinian, Israeli and Lebanese people for democracy and peace. In Gaza, elements of Hamas launched rocket attacks against Israeli territory and abducted an Israeli soldier. In Lebanon, Hizbollah, in violation of the Blue Line, attacked Israel from Lebanese territory and killed and captured Israeli soldiers, reversing the positive trends that began with the Syrian withdrawal in 2005, and undermining the democratically elected government of Prime Minister Fuad Siniora.
    These extremist elements and those that support them cannot be allowed to plunge the Middle East into chaos and provoke a wider conflict. The extremists must immediately halt their attacks.

    It is also critical that Israel, while exercising the right to defend itself, be mindful of the strategic and humanitarian consequences of its actions. We call upon Israel to exercise utmost restraint, seeking to avoid casualties among innocent civilians and damage to civilian infrastructure and to refrain from acts that would destabilize the Lebanese government.

    The most urgent priority is to create conditions for a cessation of violence that will be sustainable and lay the foundation for a more permanent solution. This, in our judgment, requires:


    * The return of the Israeli soldiers in Gaza and Lebanon unharmed;
    * An end to the shelling of Israeli territory;
    * An end to Israeli military operations and the early withdrawal of Israeli forces from Gaza;
    * The release of the arrested Palestinian ministers and parliamentarians."

    Israel is seeking to break the back of Hezbollah through the use of its air force, not wanting to send in ground forces, to the extent it did in 1982 when it become bogged down in a land war. Whether terrorist bases can ever be totally destroyed without the use of ground forces is doubtful. Israel is culturally part of the Western world. Syria and Iran are cited by all observers as the sponsors of Hezbollah. Many observers have publicly stated that Hezbollah would not have begun this attack on Israel without those countries' agreement and material support. Surprisingly, according to The New York Times on July 17th, "..some Arab nations, including Jordan and Saudi Arabia, were joining in the criticism of the attacks committed by Hamas and Hezbollah."

    The enemies of the Western world in this war of civilizations are the Islamic fanatics. Those fanatics number hundreds of millions. They truly believe they have the right to kill all infidels. Sometimes, the fanatic warns us in his own words. Adolf Hitler wrote Mein Kampf (My Struggle) in 1925 in which he told the world of his plans. A recent leader of al-Qaeda, the late Abu Musab al-Zarqawi, spoke openly of his beliefs, "Killing the infidels is our religion, slaughtering them is our religion, until they convert to Islam or pay us tribute."

    Take them at their word. Hitler meant what he said. So do the Islamic fanatics. Unlike the Western world, where we love life, the Islamic fanatics love death, what they refer to as martyrdom, killing the infidel -- Christians, Jews, Hindus, Muslims of different sects -- and being rewarded with 72 virgins and a prominent place in heaven.

    They believe that we Westerners do not have the inner strength to withstand them. They believe that if they behead their victims, disembowel prisoners, torture them beyond recognition, we will surrender or at least provide them with a temporary victory by cutting and running. We did, in fact, do exactly that in Somalia when our soldiers were killed and literally dragged through the streets attached by ropes to a vehicle. Recently in Iraq, two American soldiers were taken hostage. This past week, the terrorists played a tape showing the body and severed head of a disemboweled American soldier. The other was tortured beyond recognition. U.S. television channels said the sight was so awful that they would not show the video on their stations.

    What is the answer? We must be resigned to fighting this war of civilizations for as long as it takes, and it will take years. We have to be as tough as it takes without violating the internationally accepted rules of war. And, when any of our soldiers intentionally violates those rules, they must be held accountable. When those on our side accidentally violate those rules in fear of their own lives by overreacting, we should not immolate ourselves with flagellation. Based on past actions, we are far more scrupulous then these enemies of our civilization.

    Yes, Americans and other Westerners, Christians, Jews, Hindus and a majority of Muslims love life, and I am glad that we do. We will not convert, we will not pay tribute. We will fight to defend our freedom and our way of life, and we will win.

    There will be a ceasefire in the current hostilities, but the war of civilizations will go on.

    Ed Koch is the former Mayor of New York City.
    Page Printed from: http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2006/07/we_must_do_whatever_it_takes.html at July 20, 2006 - 06:00:42 PM CDT

    ReplyDelete
  154. Anonymous4:18 PM

    For Israel to bomb CHRISTIAN civilians is terrorism too. Bush doesn't want peace in the middle east. He is gleeful that now he gets to have more killing and war. Now more people hate Israel, including the Lebanese, who, like Jordan, were good neighbors.

    An eye for an eye creates blindness. you and the primitive neocons will never see the way, the path or the truth. You are blind.

    George Bush is the antichrist, it's quite obvious.

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  155. Troll Tex said "We have to be as tough as it takes without violating the internationally accepted rules of war. And, when any of our soldiers intentionally violates those rules, they must be held accountable. When those on our side accidentally violate those rules in fear of their own lives by overreacting, we should not immolate ourselves with flagellation. Based on past actions, we are far more scrupulous then these enemies of our civilization."

    You sure you read what you just posted Troll Tex, cause you guys sure dont agree with the above statement, in fact the Geneva Convention is like holy water to a vampire for you bloodsucking thugs.

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  156. you know something hippie joe, whats ironic is its the "so called" brave bloodthirsty patriots that have never served in the military, so I ask who are the real cowards and chickenhawks and I think the answer is fairly obvious.

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  157. Mike actually Ed Koch actually wrote what TT posted, he has time to surf the web, but the DISHONEST TROLL can not actually answer ONE direct question like HE acknowledged I did by posting this;

    talllTexan said...

    Actually, Clif, that was a pretty decent answer. I don't agree 100%, but it was a good answer.

    I wonder why he CAN"T do what he asks others to do, sort of like the other chicken hawks who can't find the testicular fortitude to do so they ask others something they can"y

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  158. yep clif, thats troll tex, a cowardly, lying, dishonest chickenhawk thats not even smart enough to debate or answer questions.

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  159. BTW Hippiejoe if your so far above board..why do you list a blog that does not exist, and why Does your registration exactally mimic..rusty shackleford's and Wufuss daddy among others?

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  160. What's the matta hippiejoe..dolt got your tongue?

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  161. Joe the troll...You keep pretending to be our friend...but your actions in registration mimics several trolls here who are really alter ego's of the repug trolls who want to seem like therer are more numerous that the two or three idiots who actually troll here daily while they claimk this blog is a waste of time....

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  162. whats wrong Troll Tex, cat got your tongue, or are you just going on a snipe hunt for those alleged facts that we are anti-semetic and hate Israel?

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  163. Remember he said it was cryptic anti semete..thus done in some super secret code the NSA ius currently working on but have not cracked yet, But TT can read it...makes you wonder why HE can but nobody else here can

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  164. Clif and Mike, you assume that if I post something, that I must clone my positions in order to be in 100% agreement.

    The larger point that Koch was making is that this is a just conflict.

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  165. TT probably used to write invisible messages in lemon juice when he was a kid to play government agent, he thinks he is lot more important than he really is, just like he thinks he is A LOT smarter than he really is.

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  166. TT the fact that Israel was attacked is not in doubt, thus to attack Hezbollah is fully justified, just not the tactic of bombing the Airport, ports, bridges, well drilling trucks way out side the rockets range, convoys of refugees trying to escape the violence, convoys of ambulances donated by Bahrain to the country of Lebanon, the Israeli's have not just attacked Hezbollah but the entire country of Lebanon, and that is not justified.

    It is simply throwing their military prowness around to force a political concession out of the Lebanese government by exerting extreme pressure on the civilian population of Lebanon, which is in direct violation of the Geneva Convention, and does not help the Israeli cause because their occupation of Lebanon from 1982-2000 was the direct cause of the formation of the hezbollah movement by shia Lebanese because the Israeli's did to them duringh the occupation the same thing they are doing to the rest of the country...and the Israeli's were fighting against the PLO during that occupatrion...so they are making the same Stragetic mistake they made last time..

    Attacking way to wildly, attacking anybody they want to exsert political pressure which has the unintended consequesces of angering more Lebanonese Arab's and creating more enemies than they faced before their wanton attacks on people who actually had little or nothinbg to do with the small scale attack on eight Israeli soldiers...their response is not justified in its scope and illegality when it openly attacks civilian targets which is not allowed by their agreement of the Geneva Convention...

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  167. To put it another way Israel is doing in some way what the sunni's and Shites are doing in Iraq but Israel uses planes and large tube artillery not militias and insurgent tactics.... All are directally Targeting civilians and that is never justified

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  168. Israel is just advancing dead eye's one percent solution...if one percent of the population is guilty of attacking Israel..they claim the right(which does not exist) to attack 100% of the population

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  169. to put it another way you might understand ...Osama attacked us on 9-11..thus we were justified in attacking Osama and those who directally harbored him as we did in the fall of 2001, but since Iraq and Saddam did not attack us on 9-11 that was not a legitimate reason to sattack him,


    Just as Israel should be focused militarily on Hezbollah fighters and military assets..they should not be attackinh Lebanese civilian targets that are not Hezbollah assets but the countries infrastructure

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  170. The goal of Hezbollah is to destroy Israel. The goal of Israel is to live in peace and for Lebanon to live in peace as well. You sound like you want Israel to fight for her survival with both hands tied behond her back.

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  171. Their tactics are not going to destroy Hezbollah unless the Invade Lebanon as they did in 1982...which would probably result in another long drawn occupation which is what Hezbollah wants to inflict the same kind of insurgent attacks on Israeli's that the insurgents of Afghanistan and Iraq do to the US and its allies..

    See dead eye was wrong instead of cutting the extremists the war in Iraq has emboldened them and shown ways to attack a superior force and tie it up in a quagmire of asymetrical war of insurgent attacks and Israel military responces if they go into Lebanon on a very large scale...and if they do not Hezbollah will not stop..

    Their choice is either get tied up in the same sort of bad situation as they diod in the past...or fight a battle of air and artillery attacks which can not defeat an insurgent force like hezbollah has fashioned itself as....

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  172. talllTexan said...

    The goal of Hezbollah is to destroy Israel.


    I do not deny this..


    The goal of Israel is to live in peace and for Lebanon to live in peace as well.

    no son the goal at this moment is for the military assets of Israel to destroy hezbollah they said so and are trying but with out much sucess to do that


    You sound like you want Israel to fight for her survival with both hands tied behond her back.


    Noi son I wish they could fight the war they are prosecuting at the moment with better stragety which would have them change their tactics, and attack Hezbollah directally while not attacking the infrastructure of Lebanon which did not attack Israel....


    Israel would be better served to deal with Hezbollah and reconise they are not the same as lebanon which they are wantoningly attacking

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  173. But TT since you have all this time how about a direct answer to the actual question I asked...after all I directally answered yours didn't I?

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  174. TT from a blogger in Beruit here is anothers assestment..by somebody who is ther and is not either Israeli or shia muslim which is what hezbollah is ;


    Patrick McGreevy writes from Beirut:


    We know people are talking about the end game, but it is very difficult to imagine how this can end any time soon. Short of a massive ground invasion, Hezbollah cannot be destroyed; and Isreal has backed itself into a corner; if they stop, Hezbollah can claim victory. Hence the madness goes on. Eventually, people will have to talk to each other, but apparently only after a great deal more bleeding.

    http://www.juancole.com/


    see either they repeat the mistake of 18 years which was directally responsible for the creation of Hezbollah or they eventually back off would be claimed by hezbollah as a victory, which would embolden the extrremists in the middle east even more....


    every stragetic misstep by the Us or Israel is capitalised by the extremists to our peril and Bush Cheney have made quite a few...

    like not actually fully fighting the war in Afghanistan...because they always intended for the invasion of Iraq, this allowed Oasama to escape which is looked on by most extreme muslin jihadists as a victory for him, now they are fightiong a reemerging Taliban because we did not invest enough resources especially troops and equipment in the invasion of Afghanistan and the battle againsy the Taliban and Al quaida

    their fiasco of Iraq is known but the biggestr mistake was the creation of a insurgent and terrorist classroom from which the tactics and future jihadists are training...and this has created many more than Osama had in the summer of 2001

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  175. TT complaining, because you see very fatal strategic mistakes being made, which will in the end ,make the situation worse for the side you criticise, is not unpatriotic or traitorous, even if coulterguist thinks so.... it is actually being more patriotic, because if you can see that something is doomed to fail, and the results of the failure, a less secure situation, than doing nothing, then not speaking out about it is, unpatriotic

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  176. I trust Israel enough not to second guess their tactics. Look and the Six Day War, or the 1982 bombing of the Iraqi reactor. Both of those were second guessed at the time, but history has judged those actions with favor.

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  177. Troll Tex said "Clif and Mike, you assume that if I post something, that I must clone my positions in order to be in 100% agreement.

    The larger point that Koch was making is that this is a just conflict."


    No Troll Tex not violating the internationally accepted rules of war i.e. the Geneva Convention was a large part of what koch said, he basically said we are better than them and we need to hold ourselves to a higher more humane standard and be accountable for our actions, lest we become no better than the animals we decry and oppose.


    Ed Koch said ""We have to be as tough as it takes without violating the internationally accepted rules of war. And, when any of our soldiers intentionally violates those rules, they must be held accountable. When those on our side accidentally violate those rules in fear of their own lives by overreacting, we should not immolate ourselves with flagellation. Based on past actions, we are far more scrupulous then these enemies of our civilization."

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  178. Troll Tex said I trust Israel enough not to second guess their tactics. Look and the Six Day War, or the 1982 bombing of the Iraqi reactor. Both of those were second guessed at the time, but history has judged those actions with favor"

    Thats your problem right there Troll Tex, you show the repugs and Israel blind trust, and trust is something that must be earned.

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  179. You are blind. George Bush is the antichrist, it's quite obvious.
    -anonypuss

    Perhaps but you are an anonymous coward it's quite obvious.

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  180. talllTexan said...

    I trust Israel enough not to second guess their tactics. Look and the Six Day War, or the 1982 bombing of the Iraqi reactor. Both of those were second guessed at the time, but history has judged those actions with favor.


    stragetically completely different enemies...the six day war of 1967 was still when the world was mired in the cold war and the islamic movement was still linked to the nation states of the area....which Israel could prosecute because they had many fixed targets...not highly mobile rocket launchers and fighters that can dissolve in to the civilian population...and as for the 1982 bombing of a fixed unfinished nuclear reactor in Iraq a same fallacy comparing a fixed limited asset against a much more determined and fatalistic enemy who are determined to fight no matter what their immediate losses because just as they knew in the afghan war against the soviets and the iraqi insurgency, they have far more potential recruits who will just keep coming and coming, that si not what Saddam had in 1982 or Jordan Egypt and Syris had in 1967

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  181. Thats it youngster,jump all over those conservative pigs everytime they open their mouths.You are right again.
    -hippiejoe

    S'matter hippiejoe, got a burr caught in your birkenstocks?

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  182. Mike, Israel, the ultimate "David" in a David v. Goliath situation, has earned my trust. Man for man, the IDF is the best military force in the world, and it had better be. They cannot afford a single misstep.

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  183. Glad you feel this way FF, maybe you will read your buddy Troll Tex the riot act for lying and claiming that we are anti-semetic and hate Israel and feel Israel doesnt have the right to exist without one fact or shred of evidence to back up his lie, he wasnt even man enough to apologize and admit he lied, so FF if you really hate others accusing people of being racists or bigots unjustly and spreading lies and slander about them, you will be a man and say so.
    -Mike

    Mikey, Mikey...you are a text book case study in hypocrisy. We both know I called my political ally, Tall Texan, on this very topic:

    Tall Texan, hopefully you are not accusing anyone here of bigotry without some sort of solid evidence.
    -Freedom Fan

    And I accept his gratious response:

    I don't think Lydia is a bigot, but her devoting so many words to establish that she likes Jews and had Jewish friends seemed a little overly defensive.
    -Tall Texan

    So you see, Mikey both Tall Tex and I are rational, mature adults (ie "Men"), how about you? Have you ever been man enough to admit a mistake or had the ethical courage to challenge Worf or Clif or any other of your goofball lib buddies on any of their outrageous unsubstantiated charges?? Hmm?

    If not what term shall we apply to your character? You're not foolin anyone here Mikey.

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  184. How about that question TT


    and for FF it is "should Israel follow the Geneva Convention since they agree to do so?"

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  185. By the way, Worf does use some aggressive language which makes him come off angry and sarcastic — but he's funny. I personally hate name-calling and foul language. But one thing I know for sure: Worf is a good man. He is a very good soul. His words may be salty, but he is passionate and truthful. He has a good heart.
    -Lydia Cornell

    Screw the Jews. Screw the Muslims. Screw the Christians. Bunch of murdering mutherfuckers is all you people are.
    -Worf

    [Freedom Fan] you believe your master is God, which is why you rejoice in killing and murder and torture. Because you think Gods on your side.
    -Worf

    Please provide an example, or retract this disgusting malicious statement.

    Bite me. The Blog is full of you laughing and joking about killing Muslims, torture, etc. Its there for all to read. And I'm not your research assistant. You want them. Go find them yourself. [Certainly if these facts don't exist, you can go find where they don't exist, thus proving your innocence, right?]
    -Worf

    You'll find, if you haven't already, that I'm a mean, rotten, low down son of a bitch.
    -Worf

    It would appear that all of us have indeed found that to be the case Worf, with the exception of Ms. Cornell.

    Ms. Cornell is a nice person, albeit one whose judgement appears to be hopelessly biased and unreliable. Thankfully those who set our foreign policy are a bit more credible.

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  186. Thankfully those who set our foreign policy are a bit more credible.


    Yea fantasy bot they are soooo credible they lied us into a opyional war that has become a total fiasco where the decent into full scale civil war seems to have begun 100 deaths a day and the still dream about a democracy like Adolph dreamed about fantasy divisiona that were not there....

    and their optional war was begun atthe expense of the one they claimed they were fighting in Afghanistan against the Taliban and their Al Quaeda allies which they let basically escape to return enmass today

    Even though the MSM is focused on a war between the Israelies and Hezbollah the one actually being fought by UNITED STATES soldiers are still going on only the situation in Iraq is basically OUT OF CONTROL and Afghanistan is heating up but the war between Israel and hezbollah is more important to us since that is where everybnody's focus is being directed.....instaed of on the war where the US soldiers are in harms way

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  187. Fantasy bot if the delusion you try to present was not so pathetic it actually would be funny

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  188. But you and TT are for the US soldier ahead of any other nations troops right you oh so patriotic fantasy bot

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  189. Freedom Foe said "Tall Texan, hopefully you are not accusing anyone here of bigotry without some sort of solid evidence.
    -Freedom Fan

    And I accept his gratious response:

    I don't think Lydia is a bigot, but her devoting so many words to establish that she likes Jews and had Jewish friends seemed a little overly defensive.
    -Tall Texan

    So you see, Mikey both Tall Tex and I are rational, mature adults (ie "Men"), how about you? Have you ever been man enough to admit a mistake or had the ethical courage to challenge Worf or Clif or any other of your goofball lib buddies on any of their outrageous unsubstantiated charges?? Hmm?

    If not what term shall we apply to your character? You're not foolin anyone here Mikey."


    Really Fibbing Fascist if that is the case that he was really not lying and falsely accusing us of being anti-semetic and hating Israel and wanting to see israel destroyed then why did he try to make a deal and say he would not lie and slander us with unsustantied accusations if we would not say we see similarities between the Bush Administration and Nazi's. He then lied and falsely stated that we stated that Israel does not have the right to exist and that we said Israel does not have the right to defend itself from organizations bent on its destruction, which are complete and utter lies, I challenge both of you FF and TT to show where any of us have stated Israel does not have the right to exist or defend itself from those organizations bent on its destruction or any evidence that we are antisemetic or hate israel, and if you fail to produce any such evidence I expect you both to be men and apologize for lying.

    These posts by Troll Tex all came AFTER the post where he stated Lydia is not a bigot, so it proves he was just trying to lie and slander us to be a pain in the butt.



    TT said "Mike, I never stated my religios affilliation here.

    I stated my opinion that you are crypto anti-Semitics if you don't support Israel's right to exist. That is my opnion, and you are free to have a different opnion.

    Stating that Israel doesn't have the right to defend itself from organiztions bent on Israel's destruction is pretty much the same thing, no?

    7:00 PM

    As to Mike, I will withdraw any insinuations of your and Lydia's anti-semitism if you withdraw all your comparisons of Republicans to Nazis. I think that is fair.

    Deal?

    8:35 AM

    But my proposition is fair. You only want others to withdraw their comments, but you won't do that yourself.

    8:56 AM

    So, Mike, you are asking me to do something that you won't do yourself. How very...Democratic of you! I knew you would weasel out of my deal, which I think is most fair.

    9:05 AM

    You are an example of someone who can dish it out but can't take it. If you don't want me calling you an anti-Semite, don't call me and my GOP brethren Nazis. It's that simple. My offer is still on the table.

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  190. so you see TT has resorted to trying to use blackmail to get what he wants in exchange for him not lying and dishonestly slandering us with completely fabricated and unsubstantiated accusations like a true repug, and also like a true repug, Freedom Foe shows blind loyalty and defends his dishonesty.

    You FF are not a man, you have no honor and are a total disgrace!

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  191. Mike, did you know that slander does not apply to the written word?

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  192. I beg to differ Troll Tex, For a blog I feel slander is a more appropriate term than liable.

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  193. but naturally leave it to you to focus on the minutai instead of the real issue.

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  194. and the real issue troll tex is that you dishonestly tried to strike a deal where in you tried to blackmail us to get what you wanted in exchange for not lying and slandering us.

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  195. Now be a man troll tex and apologize for lying or produce some of these elusive phantom facts to support your unsubstantiated allegations and phony claims.

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  196. "Mike said...
    Now be a man troll tex and apologize for lying or produce some of these elusive phantom facts to support your unsubstantiated allegations and phony claims.

    8:00 PM"

    Mike, I could get all upset and demand a retraction for calling Republicans, which includes me, "Nazis," but life is too short to get pissed off about what some anonymous person says about me in some blog.

    But if you want to force the issue, let's be fair about it. If you apologize for calling us "Nazis," I'll make a reciprocal apology.

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  197. I'm not apologizing, I didnt make an unsubstantiated accusation, I've provided numerous examples over the last 8 months to support exactly why I feel there are similarities between the Bush Administration and the Nazi's, and not only did you not provide any evidence or facts to support your claims but you dishonestly resorted to blackmail wherein you stated you would retract your lie if I did something you wanted.

    I will not retract something I truly believe, see the dishonest deal you offered just showed you did not believe what you say you were just lying and trying to give us a hard time, so either man up and apologize and admit you lied and made a mistake or provide some proof to back up your outraqgeous claims.

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  198. See Troll Tex the equivalent of what you did is if I dishonestly said"

    Troll Tex I will agree to not say you are a child molestor if you agree with everything Lydia says from now on"

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  199. Mike, you need to calm down. I stated my opinion. It is a logical impossibility to have a false opinion, but in the interest of civility, I offered to retract my opinion if you did the same, but you are Hell bent on having your double standard (just like a typical Democrat). So, if you won't make a concession in the interest of civility, I won't either.

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