Wednesday, January 28, 2009

DEFINITION OF TORTURE



Definition of Torture: Being forced to listen to a house of teenagers playing Rock Band while singing along to ‘Panic at the Disco!” Have you heard this band?!"

Back when I was single, I was really nervous in front of a cute guy at a party. I read in Cosmo magazine that if you want to seduce a guy you should mimic his gestures. When he sips, you sips. He was drinking from a glass beer bottle, and I was holding a glass of ice water. When he chugged a swig from his bottle, I thought I was holding a bottle too, so I lifted my drink and poured it all over my face.

DOG-FIGHTING

My husband shaved our Shihtzu’s face and now he has an ugly pointed chin. Did he do this in retaliation for me not using his dog as a ring-bearer in our wedding? Now Chazzie looks like Leon Trotsky. His chin is triangular like a Pomeranian's. No offense, but I prefer the pudgy full-face of a Shih-tzu, not a triangle. I am so angry I’m thinking of getting a fake beard for the dog, or having hair extensions woven in. Our dog used to be so cute — like in this picture — but now I’m embarrassed to drive with the dog’s head out the window. My husband also cut Chazzie’s whiskers, which I assumed were his antennae. Aren’t a dogs’ whiskers a logistical tracking mechanism, like a catfish whiskers?

By the way, we were going to mate our Shih-tzu with a Bulldog, but then we'd have Bull Shit.

Our dog Chazzie is humping his doggie bed, while our new girl dog Sasha lounges in it flirtatiously. Chazz doesn’t seem to realize there’s a girl in his bed! She is actually stretching and lolling luxuriously looking at him upside down as he gets more and more annoyed with her for being in his way while he tries to make love to the cushion.

Our dogs are like spies for the CIA. They wait outside the door to various bedrooms like investigators. Where do they to act so arrogant like they own the place? I mean one dog looks like a carpet with a face. All you see are the eyeballs and fur.

ON LOOKS-ISM, MATERIALISM AND THE ENTERTAINMENT INDUSTRY

Okay, so I made the front page of TMZ recently. The message kids gets from our culture these days is that only important thing in the world is how "hot" you are, how you look — the appearance of things, the impression you make, the mistakes that come out of your mouth — instead of the intent behind the words. There is so much focus on scandal and ugliness — on bad behavior and faux pas — on sales technique and ratings, and so little substance, so little forgiveness.

I'm in withdrawal from cleavage. I'm not spiritually evolved enough to stop dressing like a hooker but I did try a turtleneck on the other day. Just when I finally let go of my fear of potato chips and bad lighting – a show comes on called “Extreme Makeover Body edition” -- so maybe I’ll just keep the cleavage a little longer: the bigger the boobs look, the smaller the butt looks.

Is it my imagination or are women getting younger and thinner and tittier every year? Why are the only valuable women in our society teenage, wombless, buttless mutants?! It’s kind of hard winning a fight with your husband while he’s reading a Victoria’s Secret catalogue that pretends not to be soft porn. I met an actress recently who admits she moonlights for an escort service.

MARRIAGE



I used to badger my husband into mental health. I'd chase him around the house with a psychology book and he'd run and hide whenever I wanted to talk. And my kids made me play Harry Potter; I have to wear a long black robe and ride a broomstick around the house. To get out of it, I'd hide from them in the closet. One time I ducked into the closet and found my husband in there hiding from me!

Frankly I’d be happy if he just pretended to listen to me; if he would just nod his head and say “Uh-huh, uh-huh” that would be fine – because a woman’s primary need is to be heard.

Now I realize I am deliberately not letting myself leave this relationship because there’s too much comedy material I’m getting out of it. I guess it’s a trade-off: bliss or torture with jokes.

Why do I have to adapt my language to suit the men in my life? I have to speak in a masculine way to my sons like this: “That’s a cool shirt. Nice color.” God forbid I say “That’s a pretty colored sweatshirt.” They can’t tolerate even the most subtle feminine words or a less than macho lilt to my voice. Since when did womanly things become passé? Everything has to be slanted toward the male voice. It pisses me off! And furthermore, they won’t go to a single movie with a female protagonist, while I have to suffer through raunchy, sophomoric, loud, explosive testosterone-fueled guy movies ad nauseum!

My philosophy of life can be summed up like this: when cows shit, flowers grow. Or in the words of Stuart Smalley: “It’s better to wear slippers than to carpet the whole world.”

I usesd to hate the word 'edgy' with a hatred reserved for pedophiles that moonlighted as suicide bombers. If I heard one more industry type use the word “EDGY” I was going to blow. For a long time every script in Hollywood had to be “edgy” and every woman had to be 18. I assume edgy meant “scuzzy” as in “scuzz film” starring Christopher Walken and directed by Quentin Tarantino.

And regarding ageism, I swear I actually heard a network executive say that only 18-21 year olds are “brand-changeable” that all important demographic that advertisers covet.

Everyone in Hollywood relates to everyone else from fake hierarchy of wants. There is a desperate “choose me” energy in L.A. — a yearning in the airwaves. Everyone wants something from someone.

Maybe fame is the cure for crime and adultery. Look at Ozzy and Gene Simmons and Snoop Dog. Since they had their own TV shows, they’re are on their best behavior. In the long run, everyone in the public eye seems to gain a conscience and clean up their act. We should have TV shows for all criminals. Every criminal gets his own show.

THE ESSENCE OF WANT

I’m still grieving over a garage sale I had a few years ago. People bought things from me against my will; they bought things I had no intention of selling! They stampeded over my lawn, like barbarians at the gate, taking everything off the walls of my garage -- my childhood possessions. Why did I feel so intimidated? I felt guilty when I said “No, this is not for sale.” One woman, a professional gypsy, bought a mixer, then stole my jewelry. I had to wrestle her to the ground and chase her to her Mercedes, yanking on her purse, while she tried to slam the car door on my arms. Finally I got the bag away and searched inside and found all my jewelry.

Now I’m having a garage sale for all my pens and pencils.
____________
OpEdNews: Holy Cow! Top Dems Are Serious About Investigating Bush's Criminal Acts

As President Barack Obama reverses some of ex-President George W. Bush's most controversial "war on terror" policies, a consensus seems to be building among Democratic congressional leaders that further investigations are needed into Bush's use of torture and other potential crimes...

Two other key Democrats joined in this growing chorus of lawmakers saying that serious investigations should be conducted...

On Jan. 18, two days before Obama's inauguration, House Speaker Nancy Pelosi expressed support for House Judiciary Committee Chairman John Conyers's plan to create a blue-ribbon panel of outside experts to probe the "broad range" of policies pursued by the Bush administration "under claims of unreviewable war powers."

In an interview with Fox News' Chris Wallace, Pelosi specifically endorsed a probe into the politicization of the Justice Department, but didn't spell out a position on Conyers's plan to examine the Bush administration's torture and rendition policies, which could prove embarrassing to Pelosi and other Democratic leaders who were briefed by the CIA about these tactics.

Still, when Wallace cited Obama's apparent unwillingness to investigate the Bush administration, Pelosi responded: "I think that we have to learn from the past, and we cannot let the politicizing of the--for example, the Justice Department--to go unreviewed. Past is prologue. We learn from it. And my views on the subject--I don't think that Mr. Obama and Mr. Conyers are that far apart."

The emerging consensus among top congressional Democrats for some form of investigation into Bush's controversial policies has surprised some progressives who had written off the leadership long ago for blocking impeachment hearings and other proposals for holding Bush and his subordinates accountable.

In 2006, for instance, Pelosi famously declared that "impeachment is off the table," and prior to Election 2008, the Democratic leadership largely acquiesced to Bush's demands for legislation that supported his "war on terror" policies, including a compromise bill granting legal immunity to telecommunications companies that assisted in Bush's warrantless wiretaps.
Read more at: http://www.opednews.com/articles/Holy-Cow-Top-Dems-Are-Ser-by-Jason-Leopold-090126-269.html
___________________________
Photos from Vegas last week and St. Bart's last summer: The Wynn Hotel, the view from our window on 60th floor overlooking Trump Tower, Venetian Palazzo and Treasure Island. The Encore Hotel -- crystal peacock, butterfly mosaic floors.

Other photos at top: Kevin in Malibu last week. He found a starfish but put it back...













Photos: St. Bart's last summer July 2008
________________

Quote of the Day: Stress is the consequence of resistance to your life. When we resist, argue, are angry, make others wrong.. When you relax into acceptance, that's when you can start reclaiming your peace. Listen to people's stories: they tell why they are unable to be at peace now. Gary Zukav

560 comments:

  1. Lydia,

    The investigation should be interesting as this country has a rather spotty record when it comes to these things. There has always been an undercurrent of "Moral Exceptionalism" that has been running our government since the days of Manifest Destiny.
    Will we be able to overcome this and get down to a real examination of what went on or will we do as former Attorney General Alberto Gonzalez is already doing and claim "we were only following orders".

    ReplyDelete
  2. "Like most far left moonbats, when confounded they turn to comparing their opponent to the Nazi's."

    Fixed that for you O Hypocritical one...

    ReplyDelete
  3. And Frank, I'll get back to you on the differences between Beetlejuice er, Bartlebee and Voltron later. Right now I have to get back to work.

    ReplyDelete
  4. This post contains a great article about top Dems going after the crimes of the Bushies, et al.

    I also put up a some humor from my files. The one called "Dog Fighting"...
    I have over 500 pages of comedy and am weeding through it now.

    All the photos at the bottom are of our trip to Vegas last week.

    And the one of our son with a starfish is from Malibu one week ago! Kevin caught a Leopard shark at the same beach.

    I apologize for having great weather here.

    ReplyDelete
  5. Lydia,

    Don't apologize for having good weather. It's really pretty down here in Tampa as well. It's going to be a great weekend for the Superbowl.(Go Cardinals)
    I really get a kick out of your humor. You are quite an accomplished person.
    Anyway, I see that I might have incurred the wrath of Voltron. Wow, first Bartlebee now Voltron. Makes you wonder what kind of grades they're gettng in junior high.

    ReplyDelete
  6. Actually then let's pose this as a question.
    Where does your personal moral responsibility begin and your duty to the state end.
    BTW, Voltron, it is not just the Nazis, religious and political dogma have been used throughout human history to justify all manner atrocities.
    Any takers on this debate or is everybody to busy launching personal attacks?

    ReplyDelete
  7. Thanks Frank! You make some good points here.

    But I thought you were a Repuglican from some other posts I read.

    ReplyDelete
  8. Lydia,

    I am a Republican...an old school Republican. I firmly believe that the last real Republican president was Dwight D. Eisenhower. I like Barry Goldwater. He had a lot of good things to say. I like Theodore Roosevelt. He speaks of patriotism as "loyalty to this country and not a political party or individual." (I hope that I've gotten the paraphrase right.)
    From Nixon onward, the NeoConservatives have dominated the party. Remember that these are people that believe in the rule of the elite. They have no respect for the Constitution. They have increased the power of the Executive Branch to dangerous levels. They are great promoters of the "ends justify the means" philosophy. This may explain why they are so fond of waterboarding and other forms of torture.
    As and old school Republican, I believe in government with a small g. Government that is responsive and responsible to the citizens. I also believe in entrepreneurial capitalism not this monopolistic system that we have now.
    Well, I guess I've said enough for now.

    ReplyDelete
  9. Great Post Frank..........I couldnt agree more.

    ReplyDelete
  10. Mike,

    Thanks for the good words. Glad you liked it.

    ReplyDelete
  11. Every time I say something that Bartlebee disagrees with, EVERY TIME, he denigrates me, categorizes/labels me, and impugns my motivation. I ask the reader to go back to the initial post I made to Lydia. It was civil, respectful, and it was balanced. It was Bartlebee (fresh from his self-imposed exile) who brought it down in the gutter. Everybody else on this blog is trying to be more constructive in their comments, MCH, Lydia, Frank, Mike etc., trying to take a page out of the Obama play manual. Everybody but this guy. What a shame, huh?

    ReplyDelete
  12. No wrath yet Frank.

    But you did try to compare me to Bart in the last thread.

    I think you'll find I'm much more civil and reasonable than Barty Boy.
    Although obviously just as opinionated.

    ReplyDelete
  13. Fair enough Voltron. I believe the Good Book has an apporpriate quote "by their fruits shall ye know them"
    BTW, I can then assume that the "fixed it for you oh hypocritical one" was not directed at me.

    ReplyDelete
  14. "Actually then let's pose this as a question.
    Where does your personal moral responsibility begin and your duty to the state end."


    You might have to elaborate on that a bit Frank. Duty to the state is rather finite and intertwined with personal moral responsibility.

    ReplyDelete
  15. No Frank, that was a Bartlebee quote I was referring to.

    He's quite fond of referring me or other conservatives as "Nazi's" as are the other regulars here.

    That's also one of the nicer things that have been said.

    ReplyDelete
  16. "As and old school Republican, I believe in government with a small g. Government that is responsive and responsible to the citizens."

    I'll bet then that you're glad you voted for this "trillion dollar deficits as far as the eye can see" administration eh?

    ReplyDelete
  17. Actually Voltron I regard the bailout plan as a necessary evil that I'm not all that certain is going to work. It seems as if this country has gotten itself into the classic "there are no good answers" situation.
    I still do not regret voting for President Obama. However, I'm taking a wait and see attitude.

    ReplyDelete
  18. Well, I regard it as an UN-necessary evil. And I can pretty much guarantee it isn't going to work.

    Despite all the media hype it's not the worst economy since the great depression. It's only the worst economy since the Carter years.

    But if we follow the FDR playbook, and it looks like we might, it very well could end up that way. And if it does, god only knows what it will take to get us out of it.

    I suppose if we withdraw from the middle east WW3 could intervene...

    ReplyDelete
  19. Voltron,

    You know the funny thing is you may actually be right. It's hard to tell at this point and the only certainty seems to be uncertainty.
    Many seem to think that a re-distribution of wealth is some kind of new radical idea. It's been going on for years under the name of Reaganomics. It's just that the wealth has been flowing upwards into the hands of the few.
    Ideally, my solution would be to get America back into being a producing nation again. Goods made here in America being bought by American citizens which in turn create American jobs. As you can tell I'm no big fan of outsourcing.

    ReplyDelete
  20. Voltron, Will, Lydia, Mike et. al
    Now for the really important question
    Who will win the Super Bowl?
    I favor the Cardinals.
    How bout the rest of you.

    ReplyDelete
  21. I'd like to see the Cardinals win, Frank. I just have a hard time seeing Kurt Warner picking apart that Steeler defense the way he did those other playoff teams. Fitzgerald, though, that guy IS unbelievable. I remember him from his days at Pitt. I think he should have won the Heisman myself.

    ReplyDelete
  22. wow.

    Between Frank and Will I've been mentioned 7 times...out of 21 comments.

    And I haven't even said anything yet.

    ReplyDelete
  23. you count these do you? You need a pet.

    ReplyDelete
  24. THIS IS his pet, Frank. Sorry to say.

    ReplyDelete
  25. Concern troll
    -------------

    A concern troll is a false flag pseudonym created by a user whose actual point of view is opposed to the one that the user's sockpuppet claims to hold. The concern troll posts in web forums devoted to its declared point of view and attempts to sway the group's actions or opinions while claiming to share their goals, but with professed "concerns".

    For example, in 2006 Tad Furtado, a top staffer for then-Congressman Charlie Bass (R-NH), was caught posing as a "concerned" supporter of Bass's opponent, Democrat Paul Hodes, on several liberal New Hampshire blogs, using the pseudonyms "IndieNH" or "IndyNH." "IndyNH" expressed concern that Democrats might just be wasting their time or money on Hodes, because Bass was unbeatable.



    Wikipedia

    ReplyDelete
  26. Still obsessing on the "concern troll" are we. You ever going to move on or is this going to be the constant thing?

    ReplyDelete
  27. It sems Worf/Bart sees a conspiracy behind everytree.
    He usually vacations in Dallas,sprnding his time looking for spent shell casings on the grassy knoll.
    Three or four times a year he will punish the posters on this blog by inventing some perceived slight and issue a heartfelt,tearful fairwell promising never to be heard from again,only to reappear a week
    later.

    Yes indeed, poor Worf/Bart is on a life long quest for acceptance,either here or in his fantasy world.

    ReplyDelete
  28. Who the hell were the dems that voted against Obamas spending package? Do you think they will get a chair on any juicy committes?

    ReplyDelete
  29. Concerned Frank Frey said...

    Still obsessing on the "concern troll" are we. You ever going to move on or is this going to be the constant thing?



    You're the one who came into a thread where I hadn't said a word to you, blubbering about Bartlebee.

    ReplyDelete
  30. As for your alter ego cRusty's conspiracy theories, I doubt you guys could conspire on anything more complicated than a Cheese Pizza.

    ReplyDelete
  31. Bartlebee,

    What point are you making here? There doesn't seem to be anything relevant to any of the discussions.

    ReplyDelete
  32. I do think it's nice how you guys always come in together though.

    To shore each other up.

    I think it's sweet.

    ReplyDelete
  33. I also think it's nice that cRusty's taken an instant liking to Frank.

    Usually cRusty tries to dissuade new comers. Usually he harasses and insults them trying to drive them off.

    For some reason though, ...he likes you Frank.

    :)

    You must be very special.

    ReplyDelete
  34. Frank Frey said...

    Bartlebee,

    What point are you making here? There doesn't seem to be anything relevant to any of the discussions.



    What discussion Frank?

    You mean you, Will and Voltron whining about Bartlebee?

    :|

    You mean that discussion?

    ReplyDelete
  35. Or did you mean your redundant recital of your resume?


    "HI, I'm Frank, and I'm a moderate and reasonable fellow who's just here to offer his opinions...I'm a republican, have cancer, served in uniform, am a great bowler and they say I'm a lot of fun at parties....."

    ReplyDelete
  36. For a guy who is new to the blog although he's been here half a dozen times before, .....

    :|

    ....you sure hit the ground running with the anti-bartlebee trolls.

    You are to be commended.

    ReplyDelete
  37. I wasn't even talking to you, Bartlebee. I was making a modest counterpoint to Lydia and it was you who paranoiacly pounced. Sometimes a comment is just a comment, buddy. P.S. Why don't you go away again for a while so the much more dignified MCH can return. He's able to debate without demonizing his counterparts.

    ReplyDelete
  38. Will "take no prisoners" Hart said...

    I wasn't even talking to you, Bartlebee. I was making a modest counterpoint to Lydia and it was you who paranoiacly pounced



    I wasn't talking to you either.

    :|

    Why are you answering for Frank?

    ReplyDelete
  39. Will,

    I've been following the whole economic stimulus package thing and must admit that I'm somewhat disappointed in the results. I was hoping for something a bit more radical. I think the problem is of such magnitude that it does require both a long and short term solution. The current economic stimulus package is a short term solution whose effectiveness is still open to question.
    For the long term, I offer the following:
    1.) Lower taxes on the middle class.
    2.) Lower taxes on small business.
    3.) Bring back the Windfall tax on corporations with the idea that if these windfall profits are re-invested in the corporation then they don't get taxed.
    4.) Seriously re-examine GATT, NAFTA, and some of these other agreements to make them more US Jobs friendly.
    Whaddya think?

    ReplyDelete
  40. Will, please answer yourself.

    :|

    You're asking yourself a question.

    ReplyDelete
  41. Hey Bart,

    You sound like you could use a little help.

    Try this:
    http://shrinkwrapped.blogs.com/

    ReplyDelete
  42. Lydia,
    Back to the topic of Media reform. The NeoCons, in the post Watergate era apparently learned their lesson. Starting in the late '70s they began buying media outlets. For example, the rise of Clear Channel can be traced back to this period. The ultimate expression is FOX.
    Along with the purchase of various media outlets came another part of the NeoCon movement: unity of message=unity of purpose. A careful analysis of Limbaugh, Coulter, Malkin, et. al shows a remarkable sameness of talking points. This has the effect of re-inforcing the message. After all, if all of these people seem to agree then there must be some legitimacy to it.
    On the other hand, the very strength of the Liberal/Progressive movement, diversity, is also it's greatest weakness. There are so many differing agendas that work at cross purposes to one another that the perception is of a group of special interests that seem to think that their own little corner of the room is the whole house.
    The NeoCons will keep winning the "hearts and minds" until the Liberal/Progessives wise up enough to unify and present an effective counter.

    ReplyDelete
  43. Concerned Frank said...


    A careful analysis of Limbaugh, Coulter, Malkin, et. al shows a remarkable sameness of talking points. This has the effect of re-inforcing the message.

    After all, if all of these people seem to agree then there must be some legitimacy to it.

    On the other hand, the very strength of the Liberal/Progressive movement, diversity, is also it's greatest weakness.


    Frank is concerned and feels the liberals and progressives must abandon the cornerstone principal of their party, i.e. "diversity".

    Frank is concerned for us, and therefore is advising us to be more like "Rush Limbaugh,Ann Coulter and Michelle Malkin" and give up diversity in exchange for an echo chamber.

    Never mind that the liberals and progressives just won 2 major elections including the Presidency by leveraging their parties diversity.

    Frank feels it would be better now if we'd just abandon that cornerstone principal, and instead adopt the "our way or the highway" strategy of Limbaugh, Coulter, Malkin and the neocon right.

    :|

    He only advises this mind you because of his overwhelming concern for the liberals.

    ReplyDelete
  44. So, Bartlebee show me where I said specifically that diversity should be abandoned?
    I said that it was a weakness how does that translate into that it should be abandoned.
    The Democrats indeed won the White House because they rallied around Obama but they also drew support from a number of Republicans who were fed up with the NeoCons. It was the right message at the right time. It succeeded.
    I wonder though if the economy hadn't tanked would Obama still have won?
    Diversity is a two edge sword. It is a great source of strength. The problem is often trying this diverse elements together.

    ReplyDelete
  45. Concerned Frank said...

    The NeoCons will keep winning the "hearts and minds" until the Liberal/Progessives wise up enough to unify and present an effective counter.

    According to Frank, it is the conservatives who "won the hearts and minds".

    Guess all those people voting for Barack Obama were doing so against the will of their "hearts and minds".

    ReplyDelete
  46. Concerned Frank said...


    The Democrats indeed won the White House because they rallied around Obama but they also drew support from a number of Republicans who were fed up with the NeoCons. It was the right message at the right time. It succeeded.
    I wonder though if the economy hadn't tanked would Obama still have won?



    Frank thinks Obama won only because of the economy.

    Frank forgets we just won a major Senatorial election too.

    Frank forgets the liberals have been winning since 2006.

    Frank wants the liberals to abandon the strategies that brought us here, because Frank is "concerned" Obama would not have won if it weren't for the bad economy.

    Frank apparently wasn't around in 2006.

    ReplyDelete
  47. Concerned Frank said...

    "The NeoCons will keep winning the "hearts and minds"

    Frank's concerns are based on the fact that he feels the NeoCon's have been the ones winning hearts and minds.

    ReplyDelete
  48. Bartlebee -

    This conversation is now over between us for now and anytime real soon.
    It's pretty obvious that you are a spiteful little troll. I'm tired of trying to have a conversation with a child. When you decide to grow up and hold an intelligent we'll talk. Until then, have a nice life or whatever...

    ReplyDelete
  49. Frank Frey said...

    So, Bartlebee show me where I said specifically that diversity should be abandoned?
    I said that it was a weakness how does that translate into that it should be abandoned.



    hmmm, I hear your concerns Frank.

    Ok, lets take another look at what you said.


    Concerned Frank said...


    On the other hand, the very strength of the Liberal/Progressive movement, diversity, is also it's greatest weakness.



    And;


    The NeoCons will keep winning the "hearts and minds" until the Liberal/Progessives wise up enough to unify and present an effective counter.



    So first you identify diversity as our greatest weakness.

    Then you state the Neocons will keep winning the hearts and minds UNTIL the Liberal/Progressives "WISE UP", and "UNIFY" like the Neocons.


    So our "greatest weakness" is our diversity and your solution is for us to "UNIFY".

    Like the Neocons do.

    :|

    We can't be diverse on the issues and unified on them at the same time.

    Either our opinions are unified or they're diverse.

    Unify and diversify are opposites.

    At least if you're speaking English.

    So in order to unify our opinions, we must by definition first abandon our diversification of opinions.

    :|

    There.

    You've been "shown".

    ReplyDelete
  50. Concerned Frank said...

    Bartlebee -

    This conversation is now over between us for now and anytime real soon.



    Darn.

    What a loss.

    ReplyDelete
  51. Well don't worry.

    I'm sure one of your other sock puppet handles will take up the slack.

    ReplyDelete
  52. After all, I was talking to you earlier and Will started responding for you.

    :|

    That was a neat trick.

    ReplyDelete
  53. Frank - I just read your earlier comments about your background. And I also read your post about the Neocon media consolidation versus the "all over the place" liberal agendas which are hard to put under one tent. We, as Progressives and liberals do not "goose-step" and take marching orders without nuanced thought.

    But I totally see your point. We have not gotten the media thing. We are not united with one common purpose -- to create a true liberal media (and I mean that in the best sense of the word.)

    Your points are quite good and I hope you'll come back and share more with us.

    No personal attacks on this blog. We are supposed to debate each other or try to communicate by understanding first.

    ReplyDelete
  54. See Frank, where you messed up was in consistently lying.

    If you're going to play concern troll then you first need to establish a degree of credibility. Dig in a little deeper before you start making those little Neocon slips.

    Like claiming it's the Neocons who have been winning the "Hearts and Minds" of the people.

    The progressive\liberals just won not one but TWO major elections plus most of the smaller ones over the last 2 years.

    That doesn't equal the Neocons winning the hearts and minds.

    That equals the Liberal\Progressives winning the hearts and minds.

    But you try to seed the idea that the Neocons are still winning the hearts and minds when in fact, it's the opposite.

    Like most Neocons you declare up is down, right is left and black is white.

    It's the Neocon trademark.

    So when you reverse the truth, i.e. lie like that, folks are gonna figure you out.

    Just like other lies you've told, like pretending it was your first time in here the other night, and then when someone recognizes you and calls you on it, perpetuating the lie by claiming "oh yea, I forgot", and then proceeding to claim you were here "once" a "year ago". When we all know you've been in here several times and recently.

    See Concerned Frank, those consistent lies will give you away every time.

    If you want to fool people, you'll first have to stop lying so openly.

    Disguise them better.

    :|

    Think man think.

    ReplyDelete
  55. And no ones personally attacking anyone Lydia. I'm merely not willing to dumb myself down far enough to pretend that I don't know who Frank is.

    He's lied consistently. About being here. About the Neocons winning.

    If you can't see it that's your problem but don't expect me to swallow it too.

    ReplyDelete
  56. I was answering for myself, Bartlebee. Kangaroo court is now in session, I'm gathering.

    ReplyDelete
  57. He lied when he said pretended to be new here.

    Then he lied when I caught him on it, claiming he "never pretended to be new".

    Then when I showed him where he pretended to be new, he said "oh yea, I forgot I was hear once about a year ago".

    Which was also a lie, because he's been here lots of times recently.

    Always with either cRusty, Volt or Will.

    He's one of the trolls, one of the regulars.

    He knew where my handle came from, something I only referenced a long time ago.

    He's a troll. A regular troll.

    Sorry I can't pretend he's not.

    ReplyDelete
  58. Can we please give people who say they are new the benefit of the doubt?

    Just a thought.

    I mean, it's not as if there isnt a link to this blog on tons of other liberal blogs. It is just possible that somebody new could come in.

    Are we also able to do this without the name calling, baseless accusations, and other foolishness?


    MCH

    (expecting to be attacked any moment now)

    ReplyDelete
  59. I have been blogging for 22 months now. I have NEVER gone under any other name than Will Hart. That last comment I made had nothing to do with Frank. As I plainly said, I was referring to my initial post to Lydia on the previous thread where you re-emerged and paranoiacly responded. Seriously, though, how many people have you turned off at this point? It's like, what, you want to be the only commentator here? YOU NEED HELP!!

    ReplyDelete
  60. I don't know if Frank is new or old. All I know is that he isn't me.

    ReplyDelete
  61. MCH! Good to have you back, man. Wait a minute, you're not me, too, are you? LOL

    ReplyDelete
  62. I am he as you are he as you are me and we are all together.

    Googoogajoo.

    I think I've made the reference before for roughly the same reason but you know, the Beatles are timeless and always good for a repeat.

    ReplyDelete
  63. Now here's my thought on the whole Stimulus bill. The Republicans managed to water it down to something closer to their personal tastes, then voted against it. Now, since it is watered down and wont work as well as it was intended to, they can come back in 2 years for the midterm elections and say "See? THey dont know what they're doing! Elect us instead!"

    The "liberal" mainstream media of course will grab onto that and run with it for dear life.

    ReplyDelete
  64. Not to worry Lydia...I'm just refusing to have anything more to do with Bartlebee.
    Bringing the Liberal Media under one tent is going to be like trying to herd cats. It can be done but boy is it going to take patience.

    ReplyDelete
  65. Wow.

    Say the secret word and the gangs all here.

    ReplyDelete
  66. There's just so much "concern" here...

    :]

    I think I'm gonna start blubberin...

    ReplyDelete
  67. MCH,

    I dunno...the whole National Endowment for the Arts thing strikes me a being a nice piece of pork. I mean, hell, when you're faced with losing your home do you really care about the arts?
    How, in your opinion, did the Republicans water it down? I mean its a pretty risky gambit that could just blow up in their faces.

    ReplyDelete
  68. Hello, I've been reading for some time and would like to comment. Is it open? Hope so here goes.

    I think the republicans watered down the bill by removing the funding for projects particularly family planning programs that would create jobs for medical personnel.

    ReplyDelete
  69. Maxine,
    No problem. Come on in. I'm going to assume that NP stands for Nurse Practitioner and CPT stands for Certified Physical Therapist. It's great to have a medical professional here. So how is the job situation within your profession? I've heard much about that. I'd love to hear your views.
    The problem with Family Planning politics is that you run afoul of the Religious Right as this is one of their keystone.(They don't seem to have much of anything else except Gay Marriage)

    ReplyDelete
  70. Exactly, a lot of the funding was for job creation -- the National mall plan, for instance. And while there is some job creation involved, family planning is more of a cost cutting measure -- it would save tons in medicaid, food stamps, wic, etc...

    If nothing else, the past 8 years have shown that corporate tax breaks do very little stimulating to anything but executive paychecks. They keep saying the money saved on taxes would go towards hiring, but has anybody noticed when the tax breaks go into effect the companies always start laying off? Happened in the Reagan years and in the Bush years.

    ReplyDelete
  71. The Religious Wrong, er sorry .. Right holds the belief that abstinence is the only acceptable form of birth control and yet the very basis of their religion goes against that idea (virgin birth?)


    There is a word, though, for students who get abstinence only education: Parents.

    ReplyDelete
  72. MCH,

    I totally agree with you about family planning as well as corporate tax breaks.
    However, re-sodding the National Mall? How about if we take that money and add to the...say...money earmarked. Washington has enough sods in it. We don't need to be bringing in any new ones:-)

    ReplyDelete
  73. I meant to add "money earmarked for improving the railroads or other public transportation"

    ReplyDelete
  74. Ok, I'll admit some of it is just pride. Seems to me that since Washington is one of the major tourist attactions -- especially for foreign tourists, it's a shame to have the National Mall look like heck.

    ReplyDelete
  75. A lot of stuff included in this bill, while it may (or may not) have validity, doesn't really stimulate job growth and, hence (in my opinion) shouldn't be included in it. These issues should be dealt with separately. I really wish we had a pork czar.

    ReplyDelete
  76. And the deficit, too. The last thing that Obama should be doing is taking a chapter out of the Bush/Paulsen handbook of deficit spending

    ReplyDelete
  77. Blogger Frank Frey said...

    Lydia,

    The investigation should be interesting as this country has a rather spotty record when it comes to these things. There has always been an undercurrent of "Moral Exceptionalism" that has been running our government since the days of Manifest Destiny.
    Will we be able to overcome this and get down to a real examination of what went on or will we do as former Attorney General Alberto Gonzalez is already doing and claim "we were only following orders"."


    I hope not Frank...........that "just following orders" crap doesnt wash with me thats what many of the Nazi war criminals said at their trials.

    That said I think you are right about the "moral exceptionalism"

    ReplyDelete
  78. Lydia,

    Don't apologize for having good weather. It's really pretty down here in Tampa as well. It's going to be a great weekend for the Superbowl.(Go Cardinals)
    I really get a kick out of your humor. You are quite an accomplished person.
    Anyway, I see that I might have incurred the wrath of Voltron. Wow, first Bartlebee now Voltron. Makes you wonder what kind of grades they're gettng in junior high.

    11:23 AM
    Blogger Frank Frey said...

    Actually then let's pose this as a question.
    Where does your personal moral responsibility begin and your duty to the state end.
    BTW, Voltron, it is not just the Nazis, religious and political dogma have been used throughout human history to justify all manner atrocities."


    EXACTLY its dispicable to cloak attrocities and war crimes behind religious dogma and rabid false flag patriotism and nationalism...........and THATS EXACTLY what both the Nazis and the Neo Cons have done!

    ReplyDelete
  79. Blogger Frank Frey said...

    Lydia,

    I am a Republican...an old school Republican. I firmly believe that the last real Republican president was Dwight D. Eisenhower. I like Barry Goldwater. He had a lot of good things to say. I like Theodore Roosevelt. He speaks of patriotism as "loyalty to this country and not a political party or individual." (I hope that I've gotten the paraphrase right.)
    From Nixon onward, the NeoConservatives have dominated the party. Remember that these are people that believe in the rule of the elite. They have no respect for the Constitution. They have increased the power of the Executive Branch to dangerous levels. They are great promoters of the "ends justify the means" philosophy. This may explain why they are so fond of waterboarding and other forms of torture.
    As and old school Republican, I believe in government with a small g. Government that is responsive and responsible to the citizens. I also believe in entrepreneurial capitalism not this monopolistic system that we have now.
    Well, I guess I've said enough for now."


    I couldnt agree more, EVERYTHING you have said from the current Neo Cons hijacking the party, with rabid false flag nationalism and phony patriotism, to their craving for war, torture, large intrusive government infringing on freedoms, liberties and privacy, to their idiotic all powerful unitary executive which is very similar to Kings and despots or dictators like Hitler, and their desire to dismantle the middle class and tranfer ALL wealth and power to a tiny minority of wealthy elites..........IS SPOT ON!


    Hey Voltron THIS is a repug I can respect.........he's just like many of the repugs i'm friends with.

    ReplyDelete
  80. No Frank, that was a Bartlebee quote I was referring to.

    He's quite fond of referring me or other conservatives as "Nazi's" as are the other regulars here.

    That's also one of the nicer things that have been said.

    4:15 PM
    Blogger Voltron said...

    "As and old school Republican, I believe in government with a small g. Government that is responsive and responsible to the citizens."

    I'll bet then that you're glad you voted for this "trillion dollar deficits as far as the eye can see" administration eh?"


    Like your "IDOL" Reagan would say "THERE YOU GO AGAIN" with the lies..........Its GWB that ran up the TRILLION dollar deficits...........Obama INHERITED a TRILLION DOLLAR DEFICIT and A Economic Collapse from your Idiot In Chief and his failed disgrace of a presidency little troll!

    ReplyDelete
  81. OMG,the conversation was sensible and then Mike shows up.
    I agree with Frank and Will,the package does'nt really begin to put money into job creation until 2010.Something has to be done to help Joe average right now.Reduce his taxes,reduce small business taxes.This is'nt the time for "pie in the sky ideas." All that stuff can wait.
    I travel quite a bit and am now in Florida...this state is hurting...I live in Las Vegas and know first hand how bad it is there,hell in the past year there were 10 houses in my neighborhood in forclousure and this is where people make...or were making a pretty good buck.

    ReplyDelete
  82. Could Worf/Bart be a bit taken aback that Lydia has shown some interest in the new posters?

    I think he wants to be the only one here.

    ReplyDelete
  83. "As and old school Republican, I believe in government with a small g. Government that is responsive and responsible to the citizens."

    I'll bet then that you're glad you voted for this "trillion dollar deficits as far as the eye can see" administration eh?

    4:22 PM
    Blogger Frank Frey said...

    Actually Voltron I regard the bailout plan as a necessary evil that I'm not all that certain is going to work. It seems as if this country has gotten itself into the classic "there are no good answers" situation.
    I still do not regret voting for President Obama. However, I'm taking a wait and see attitude."


    AS am I I was AGAINST the orininal bailout if you people remember I stated back in September that it was a mistake to give into the same kneejerk fear mongering that was used to scare us into giving GWB a blank check to get us into war with Iraq.............back then I stated that if the bailout Did not contain strong oversite on CEO pay, and to insure lending and didnt also provide help for the working class and homeowners it would fail miserably and 3-4 months down the line the banks would once again have their hands out begging for money AGAIN.........and i was right.

    The analogy I used was a boat with a hole in it you need to eith patch the hole or abandon ship and swim for shore, just staying in the same place bailing water as the ship slowly sinks gets you nowhere.

    ReplyDelete
  84. The Repugs like Rush Limbaugh, Crusty and Duncetron and Repug Congress are intellectually bankrupt.............they have NOTHING left no ideas, nothing constructive........all they have is what is know as a scorched earth policy.

    they ACTUALLY WANT the economy to implode and people to lose their jobs so they can point their fingers at Obama and say "see socialism doesnt work"

    ReplyDelete
  85. I agree with you, Mike, about the first bailout. That was pure panic by both parties. And Paulsen, don't even get me going about that SOB. He should be...I don't know what, but it wouldn't be good. I'm telling that, right now.

    ReplyDelete
  86. And Duncetron please explain to me what Rush means when he says he wants Obama to fail...........the economy is collapsing and people are losing their jobs in RECORD numbers not seen in over 60 years and OBAMA is trying to stimulate things to STOP the collapse and Rush says he WANTS Obama to fail..........so I'd like to know does that Mean Rush WANTS the economy to collapse and there to be mass unemployment and social unrest...........because thats sure the way it looks.


    I mean if Obama is trying to styop an economic collapse and Rush says he wants him to fail the it seems pretty logical Rush is saying he WANTS an economic collapse social unrest and mass unemployment just so he can point his finger and babble "See Socialism Doesnt Work, FDR was Wrong!"

    ReplyDelete
  87. Delete
    Blogger Will "take no prisoners" Hart said...

    I agree with you, Mike, about the first bailout. That was pure panic by both parties. And Paulsen, don't even get me going about that SOB. He should be...I don't know what, but it wouldn't be good. I'm telling that, right now."


    You Know It Will........it had the EXACT SAME tone as Bush asking for the Powrer to wage war against Iraq......you know the Give the the powerr I want or the sky will fall and the world will end!

    ReplyDelete
  88. Greetings,

    One of my favorite columnists is Andisheh Nouaree. Our local Creative Loafing edition used to carry his "Don't Panic: Your War Questions Answered" which IMO some of the best Foreign Affairs commentary out there.
    His latest column about Hilary Clinton gives me much to think about. It can be found at
    andishehnouraee.blogspot.com
    Let me know what you all think. Like I know you will.

    ReplyDelete
  89. Actually Voltron I regard the bailout plan as a necessary evil that I'm not all that certain is going to work. It seems as if this country has gotten itself into the classic "there are no good answers" situation.
    I still do not regret voting for President Obama. However, I'm taking a wait and see attitude.

    4:32 PM
    Blogger Voltron said...

    Well, I regard it as an UN-necessary evil. And I can pretty much guarantee it isn't going to work.

    Despite all the media hype it's not the worst economy since the great depression. It's only the worst economy since the Carter years.

    But if we follow the FDR playbook, and it looks like we might, it very well could end up that way. And if it does, god only knows what it will take to get us out of it.

    I suppose if we withdraw from the middle east WW3 could intervene..."


    See See...............All The Right Wing has left is finger pointing and fear mongering about wars and the end of the world and Socialism and Communism..........all the Right has is Fear mongering and finger pointing.........look at all the failed wars the Right has innitiated or turned into slogans........Vietnam, Communism, drugs, terror, Iraq etc.......Have ANY of them been successful?

    ReplyDelete
  90. Blogger Voltron said...

    Well, I regard it as an UN-necessary evil. And I can pretty much guarantee it isn't going to work.

    Despite all the media hype it's not the worst economy since the great depression. It's only the worst economy since the Carter years."


    You've been dead wrong about the war and about GWB..........your the LAST person anyone should listen to about the econmy..........you know ABSOLUTELY NOTHING ABOUT THE ECONOMY Duncetron.


    The Economy is MUCH MUCH WORSE than at any time over the last 70 years.........Unemployment nationaly is around 7.2% and in California around 10% if we measured those Numbers the way they were calculated in the past for more accurate comparisons to the early 80's and the Dreat Depression, you can add about 6% to each figure would make National unemployment at about 13% and unemployment in California at about 16%-17%...........and thats Only one year into this Recession it took 4 years for unemplyment to hit 20%-25% in the Great Depression for the record I dont think unemployment got out of the 7%'s in the Carter years.

    So your Comparioson to the Carter years is a slimy inaccurate lie as USUAL!

    ReplyDelete
  91. Mike,

    Just a small point but I don't think lay Vietnam at the feet of the Right. If I remember correctly a fellow named Lyndon Johnson was the one who committed hundreds of thousands of American troops to Vietnam and turned around and invaded Cambodia in 1970. Last time that I looked he was a Liberal Democrat.
    The Right has pulled plenty of crap in its time but Vietnam was not part of it.

    ReplyDelete
  92. Well, I regard it as an UN-necessary evil. And I can pretty much guarantee it isn't going to work.

    Despite all the media hype it's not the worst economy since the great depression. It's only the worst economy since the Carter years.

    But if we follow the FDR playbook, and it looks like we might, it very well could end up that way. And if it does, god only knows what it will take to get us out of it.

    I suppose if we withdraw from the middle east WW3 could intervene...

    4:59 PM
    Blogger Frank Frey said...

    Voltron,

    You know the funny thing is you may actually be right. It's hard to tell at this point and the only certainty seems to be uncertainty.
    Many seem to think that a re-distribution of wealth is some kind of new radical idea. It's been going on for years under the name of Reaganomics. It's just that the wealth has been flowing upwards into the hands of the few.
    Ideally, my solution would be to get America back into being a producing nation again. Goods made here in America being bought by American citizens which in turn create American jobs. As you can tell I'm no big fan of outsourcing."


    EXACTLY..........we NEED to grow the middle class, bring back industry, good paying middle class jobs and end our dependency on foreign oil.......its obvious that outsourcing all industry and decent paying jobs and giving tax cuts to the wealthy so oNLY the wealthy elite can prosper is a failed ideology.........in fact its the EXACT SAME flawed ideology that helped cause the Great Depression 70 years ago..........its funny how those ignorant of history are doomed to repeat it and the Neo Cons are PLENTY IGNORANT!

    ReplyDelete
  93. Delete
    Blogger Frank Frey said...

    Mike,

    Just a small point but I don't think lay Vietnam at the feet of the Right. If I remember correctly a fellow named Lyndon Johnson was the one who committed hundreds of thousands of American troops to Vietnam and turned around and invaded Cambodia in 1970. Last time that I looked he was a Liberal Democrat.
    The Right has pulled plenty of crap in its time but Vietnam was not part of it."


    Agreed Lydon Johnson was a piece of garbage I have nothing but contempt for.......but The Dulles Brothers and Nixon supported Vietnam as well so it was started by the Right aand Continued by Nixon..........And the Right used it then just as they do today with Iraq to label their opponents as wimps, peaceniks and anti military and weak on national security and the current bogey man du jour be it communism or terrorism.

    ReplyDelete
  94. Blogger Will "take no prisoners" Hart said...

    I'd like to see the Cardinals win, Frank. I just have a hard time seeing Kurt Warner picking apart that Steeler defense the way he did those other playoff teams. Fitzgerald, though, that guy IS unbelievable. I remember him from his days at Pitt. I think he should have won the Heisman myself."


    I agree Fitzgerald has been an absolute animal in the playoffs........but I think Pittsburg should probably win.

    ReplyDelete
  95. :|

    ...oops...

    9:27 AM
    Blogger Frank Frey said...

    Will,

    I've been following the whole economic stimulus package thing and must admit that I'm somewhat disappointed in the results. I was hoping for something a bit more radical. I think the problem is of such magnitude that it does require both a long and short term solution. The current economic stimulus package is a short term solution whose effectiveness is still open to question.
    For the long term, I offer the following:
    1.) Lower taxes on the middle class.
    2.) Lower taxes on small business.
    3.) Bring back the Windfall tax on corporations with the idea that if these windfall profits are re-invested in the corporation then they don't get taxed.
    4.) Seriously re-examine GATT, NAFTA, and some of these other agreements to make them more US Jobs friendly.
    Whaddya think?"


    I was hoping for something much more radical as well.........What I would like to see is

    1) Lower taxes for the Middle Class and Seniors

    2) Increasing the Depreciation rate for business's to get them spending on equipment and infrastructure.

    3) A balls to the wall aggressive inniative to get 80% of our energy from renewabls like wind and Solar in 10 Years.......including giving tax credits to citizens for putting solar panels on their homes and for busines's retrofitting buildings with solar and super efficient climate controls.

    4) Implement public transportation, and give tax credits for those utilizing public transportation and/or hybrid electric/natural gas cars.


    I'm not a fan of Winfall profits taxes..........I think we need to close the tax loopoles allowing the wealthy or big oil to get tax credits for doing NOTHING productive and ONLY give tax cuts or credits to those energy companies investing in renewabless or alternates like Natural Gas, more refining, increased production etc....same for citizens you should ONLY get a tax cut for putting solar panels on your house, a more efficient heating/cooling system or a hybrid vehicle.............not just for having a pulse and making 8 figures a year!

    ReplyDelete
  96. Blogger MCH said...

    Exactly, a lot of the funding was for job creation -- the National mall plan, for instance. And while there is some job creation involved, family planning is more of a cost cutting measure -- it would save tons in medicaid, food stamps, wic, etc...

    If nothing else, the past 8 years have shown that corporate tax breaks do very little stimulating to anything but executive paychecks. They keep saying the money saved on taxes would go towards hiring, but has anybody noticed when the tax breaks go into effect the companies always start laying off? Happened in the Reagan years and in the Bush years."



    MCH, I think the era of Malls and big gas guzzling SUV's is over for good..........looking at it historically mals were a relativly recent phenom that I believe started in the 1960's...........I think high gas prices coupled with the economic weakness will spell the doom of the mall fad..........I think we'll return to a few high end boutique stores being located in vibrant downtowns or affluent suburbs combined with big box retilers like Target and walmart and online retailors catering to the majority of the masses...........the pie is shrinking and the retail and transportation sectors will be forced to adapt and adjust if they want to survive.

    Thats a trend I see coming at least!

    ReplyDelete
  97. Blogger Frank Frey said.."Will,
    It's after midnight here in Tampa and I'm going to bed. I would however like to restate the original question.
    Lydia talks about an Honesty Doctrine in regards to broadcast journalism. My question is how would such a doctrine be enforced without violating the constitution."


    Thats easy Frank just hold them accountable for what they say...........these Media EMPIRES have a ton of resouces they should be fact checking everything they say on the air and if they do say something that isnt true they need to be fined excessively so its no longer worth it to try to influence public opinion with lies, propaganda and half truths.

    being allowed to lie on the air is being allowed to spew propaganda........all we need to do is hold our media accountable for what they say to prevent ministries of propaganda like FauX News from brainwashing the ignorant and simpleminded!

    ReplyDelete
  98. Blogger Frank Frey said...

    Thank You, Lydia, it's good be here.
    I get your point and it is a good one. However, my question would be how would you enforce such a doctrine?
    As a commentator, all I have to do is say "According to my sources..." and I'm covered. Since journalists/pundits are not required to reveal those sources then what do you do? I really have serious issues with this whole idea of throwing people in jail for not revealing confidential sources. In my opinion, it is a direct violation of freedom of the press and a gross abuse of judicial power."


    That sounds like a straw argu,ent Frank......if the media is held under scrutiny to not be allowed to lie or misrepresent easily verifiable facts and is ALSO compelled to insure diversity of opinion by bringing back the Fairness Doctrine so the opposition can make a counter point it would be obvious that news stations regulaqrly HIDING behind secret unverifiable sources lack credibility and are more tabloid trash than credible news.

    Lydia And Bartlebee raised VERY relevant points that media SHOULD not be allowed to spew lies and propaganda to influence, manipulate and deceive the ignorant and simpleminded to shape public opinion................Right wing Radio and Faux News has been allowed to brainwash the rednecks in the southern states unopposed for far too long!

    ReplyDelete
  99. Hey Bart,

    You sound like you could use a little help.

    Try this:
    http://shrinkwrapped.blogs.com/

    10:41 AM
    Blogger Frank Frey said...

    Lydia,
    Back to the topic of Media reform. The NeoCons, in the post Watergate era apparently learned their lesson. Starting in the late '70s they began buying media outlets. For example, the rise of Clear Channel can be traced back to this period. The ultimate expression is FOX.
    Along with the purchase of various media outlets came another part of the NeoCon movement: unity of message=unity of purpose. A careful analysis of Limbaugh, Coulter, Malkin, et. al shows a remarkable sameness of talking points. This has the effect of re-inforcing the message. After all, if all of these people seem to agree then there must be some legitimacy to it.
    On the other hand, the very strength of the Liberal/Progressive movement, diversity, is also it's greatest weakness. There are so many differing agendas that work at cross purposes to one another that the perception is of a group of special interests that seem to think that their own little corner of the room is the whole house.
    The NeoCons will keep winning the "hearts and minds" until the Liberal/Progessives wise up enough to unify and present an effective counter."


    Frank I agree with Barn on this I think you are correct in what the Neo Cons have done to buy up and seize control of the media to shape public oppinion..........but they have only been able to deceive the ignorant and simpleminded with their babbling the same tired talking points in unison like midless robotic trained parrots.........anyone with a functioning brain and reasonable intelligence sees right through their crap.......which is why they got their asses handed to them in the last 2 elections.


    I think Barts right we dont need to act like slimy Nazi's spewing robotic rhetoric and propaganda to try and deceive the ignorant and simpleminded.............What we need to do is make sure there is credibility and diversity in media by implementing an honesty and fairness doctrine that insures diversity of opinion and insures that media is not allowed to lie or misrepresent easily verifiable facts.

    They need to be held accountable and its not rocket science either.

    ReplyDelete
  100. How 'bout some stuff we can ALL agree on. 1) Frank (whether this is his 1st, 2nd, 3rd, or 800th time blogging here) is interesting. 2) Hank Paulsen is the worst Secretary of State in U.S. history. 3) Alan Keyes is an idiot. And 4) Blagsonofabitch (stole that from Leno) has one whole hell of a lot of issues. Just some bipartisan food for thought, me-buckos.

    ReplyDelete
  101. Your correct Mike....if you cant compete on an equal playing field,have the government step in and tilt the field.Its like giving each kid on the team a trophy....you're all winners.

    ReplyDelete
  102. Will,better check on Paulson...he was'nt SOS.

    ReplyDelete
  103. I've said this before and I'll say it again. If liberal radio had a host that could garner 10 to 15 million listeners per broadcast advertisers would line up to support them.Its no big deal..its just money.

    ReplyDelete
  104. There is'nt a station owner thats going to pump money down a rat hole.
    Clear Channel is'nt the boogyman,their a friggin business.Get someone people will listen to and they will be on the airwaves.

    ReplyDelete
  105. Blogger thereturnofRusty said...

    Your correct Mike....if you cant compete on an equal playing field,have the government step in and tilt the field.Its like giving each kid on the team a trophy....you're all winners."


    BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA...................Sorry Little Troll but after the past two elections it seems that its YOU Neo Con IDIOTS that cant compete on a level playing field.

    but By all means keep on doing what you are doing so you clowns become even MORE irrelevant........maybe you can lose a few MORE Senate seats and sears in the House and can be out of power for another 20 years or so just like after the Great Depression.

    Keep on keeping on trolls with your obstructionism and scorched earth finger pointing till you become obsolete and extinct!

    ReplyDelete
  106. Blogger thereturnofRusty said...

    I've said this before and I'll say it again. If liberal radio had a host that could garner 10 to 15 million listeners per broadcast advertisers would line up to support them.Its no big deal..its just money."


    Hey Simple Simon the pendulems swung look at Keith Olberman there is a market for liberal positions just as there is for Conserrvative positions......the only difference is while olberman might be just as partisan as Hannity and rush.........he doesnt spew lies and half truths.

    ReplyDelete
  107. Delete
    Blogger Will "take no prisoners" Hart said...

    How 'bout some stuff we can ALL agree on. 1) Frank (whether this is his 1st, 2nd, 3rd, or 800th time blogging here) is interesting. 2) Hank Paulsen is the worst Secretary of State in U.S. history. 3) Alan Keyes is an idiot. And 4) Blagsonofabitch (stole that from Leno) has one whole hell of a lot of issues. Just some bipartisan food for thought, me-buckos."


    Well While I finf Frank interesting.......and Paulson and incompetent moron and crony he's sec of treasy not State..............blago is a nut case and a disgrace as well!

    ReplyDelete
  108. By all means though Volt and Crusty keep on voting against stimulus and tax credits for the middle class while people are losing jobs just like you did in the Great Depression......so people can see you are out of touch elitists with no solutions or constructive ideas just scorched earth finger pointing, and hoping for failure so you can screech "see Socialism doesnt work FDR was wrong" because you are intellectually bankrupt and have NOTHING else to offer or run on.............keep it up so you can lose even more power and become even more irrelevant and discredited!


    Till even the ignorant rednecks and former Wall streeters turn on you and you become TOTALLY IRRELEVANT as it should be!

    ReplyDelete
  109. HMMMMMMM..........it got aweful quiet in here didnt it?

    ReplyDelete
  110. Sorry, it's late and I had 2 vodka tonics. BUT, if he was the SOS, I bet he'd be the worst.....LOL

    ReplyDelete
  111. Delete
    Blogger thereturnofRusty said...

    OMG,the conversation was sensible and then Mike shows up.
    I agree with Frank and Will,the package does'nt really begin to put money into job creation until 2010.Something has to be done to help Joe average right now.Reduce his taxes,reduce small business taxes.This is'nt the time for "pie in the sky ideas." All that stuff can wait.
    I travel quite a bit and am now in Florida...this state is hurting...I live in Las Vegas and know first hand how bad it is there,hell in the past year there were 10 houses in my neighborhood in forclousure and this is where people make...or were making a pretty good buck."


    Hey little troll the "package" your masters tell you to oppose does contain tax cuts for both the average joe and small business..........so your LYING as usual.


    Further, werent YOU the out of touch imbecile that stated the economy was booming just a few months ago and YOU also stated that interest rates were at 40 year lows when they had actually risen 500%.........you know NOTHING about the economy all you are is a trained parrot robotically babbling your masters talking points.


    You've been dead wrong on essentially EVERYTHING which is EXACTLY why you idiots have been discredited and cut from the reigns of power and fabric of society like a cancerous tumor.

    Elections matter and this election made clear that America is sick and tired of the lies, poisonous divisive empty rhetoric and propanganda and failed discredited ideologies and destructive policies of the Neo Cons.

    ReplyDelete
  112. Although you continue to try and revise history using your own goofy math...it just does'nt work Mike.

    A while back you commented that the PRIME RATE had risen %500,I think you said over the course of one year during the 2000's.Now you know thats just plain wrong and stupid.

    You continue to say the economy was in the crapper from 2000 thru the present....again,thats just wrong again.

    Sure the economy is extremly bad,but I personally dont think we can spend our way out of this recession.You cant revise history and say FDR's New Deal worked,when it fact it extended the depression...WWII ended the depression,and that Mike is a fact even you cant revise.

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  113. Mike,you've been a champion of the wrongly named Fairness Doctrine for ever.It should be called the We Cant Honestly Compete So We Want The Government To Help Us Doctrine.

    You should check out the latest cable news ratings prior to pumping up MSNBC.To me it loks like Fox beats them 3 to 1.And I also think its been proven that Keith does indeed tell some lies now and again.

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  114. And yes Mike you are correct,the republicans lost both 2006 and 2008.They lost,in my opinion because they abandoned,with George Bush leading the charge,their conservative principles of lower taxes,controlled spending and of course values.

    The past two presidential elections I voted Libetarian due to my disgust with what the republican party has become..whatever they get,they deserve.

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  115. Rusty,

    I'm with you on lower taxes and controlled spending. However, I'm curious as what these other values are that you talk about. Here are some of mine.
    1.) I strongly believe in the separation of church and state. It is the best guarantor of religious freedom that I can think of.
    2.) I am Pro-Choice. I personally don't care for abortion but ultimately it should up to the woman to make that choice.
    3.) I believe that Gays should be allowed to marry. They pay taxes, vote, and serve in the military so why shouldn't the state recognize their relationships?

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  116. Clif, if you're out there, bro, I totally don't mind you making comments on my blog. In fact, I actually kind of enjoy them (what can I say, you're a colorful and extremely unique fellow). Can you just abstain from the abusive/sexually inappropriate imagery? That's all, and THEN carry on. Thanks.

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  117. Frank, you and I seem pretty much on the same page. On social and militar issues (probably on civil liberties, too) I'm probably to the LEFT (if in fact you CAN characterize these things) of Obama. But on energy matters and the economy, I'm clearly at least a tweek or two to the right of him. As for this stimulus plan specifically, while I clearly think that Obama's heart is in the right (as in correct) place, I'm very skeptical about it. I like the part about upgrading the electrical grid. I like the part about extending unemployment benefits. And, yes, some the tax cuts and infrastructure projects may have validity. But a lot of the rest of it I just see as big time debt. Hopefully the Senate can clean it up a little bit.

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  118. Frank,

    Until Rusty gets back to you on that, let me offer you my opinion.

    "1.) I strongly believe in the separation of church and state. It is the best guarantor of religious freedom that I can think of."

    I agree with religious freedom.
    And it's "best guarantor" is to allow all religions an equal voice.
    We're supposed to have freedom OF religion, not freedom FROM religion. There is NO constitutional right to NOT be offended. You'll notice I'm sure that it seems they only attempt to muzzle Christians and Jews.


    "2.) I am Pro-Choice. I personally don't care for abortion but ultimately it should up to the woman to make that choice."

    I suppose that according to stereotype I should make an argument about the sanctity of life, but you've probably heard all that before.

    How about equal rights?: WHY should the choice be ONLY up to the woman? The last I checked she still needs a little help to get preggers. It takes TWO to tango.

    If she doesn't want the child and the father does why should she be able to kill it without his permission?

    And if she DOES want the child and the father DOESN'T why does he have to pay child support for 18 to 21 years of his life?

    Shouldn't a father have an equal right to abortion?


    "3.) I believe that Gays should be allowed to marry. They pay taxes, vote, and serve in the military so why shouldn't the state recognize their relationships?"

    I personally care not what 2 or more CONSENTING adults do behind closed doors. If the state wants to recognize their relationship, I'm not against civil unions. Just don't call it marriage.

    "Marriage" also has a religious component whereby a man and a woman come together to raise and support a family. (gays even recognize this by calling them "breeders"...) And before MCH comes in with more witty analogies about being able to do it drunk in Vegas in front of an Elvis impersonator, It SHOULD be a sacred state even IF some heterosexuals don't think so.

    Also, I think the gay movement has been infiltrated by the perverse, at least on the male side. An old girlfriend of mine used to have many gay friends who hung around with us. In my opinion, only two of them were truly gay. And one of them I'm still friends with today. He is a very dignified person and is not flamboyant and doesn't push his sexuality on anyone. He knows my opinion on the matter and it's ok with him.

    All the rest however were simply perverts who'd screw anything if it stood still long enough and didn't protest. They latched onto the "gay" banner because it allowed them to do whoever and whatever, whenever they wanted.

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  119. Rusty said "I've said this before and I'll say it again. If liberal radio had a host that could garner 10 to 15 million listeners per broadcast advertisers would line up to support them.Its no big deal..its just money."


    Come up with a way to attach Lydia's picture to her radio show and it'll happen!

    (cheap flirt alert)

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  120. Voltron's right -- let's all define tax paying citizen's rights by basing them on HIS vocabulary preferences.

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  121. You have to admit -- the Elvis thing was funny. True too.

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  122. And speaking as a pervert (although not the sort that you dsecribed, for the record), why should they be relegated to second class citizenship? I'll have you know that some of the people with different tastes are the most upstanding individuals I have ever known ... and are a lot less judgemental than others I can mention.

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  123. Yes, I know I've opened myself up to all sorts of comments with that last one ... but I dont care all that much. Yesterday I might have cared and I might care tomorrow but right not - not so much.


    Ironic thing is ... criticized in this group for my alternate internet activities, and criticized in my alternate internet group for my political activities.

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  124. there was supposed to be an "I've been" in the last post, please add it in mentally in the appropriate place. Thank you.

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  125. and ignore all the typos.

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  126. Yes the Elvis thing was funny. And true.

    It just shows that there are clueless people on both sides.

    Marriage is something that should not be taken lightly, and I have no more respect for heterosexuals who do so than I do for those who would redefine it.


    Oh, and I did also say "in my opinion". Your just being sarcastic because I'm so often right...

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  127. Blogger thereturnofRusty said...

    Although you continue to try and revise history using your own goofy math...it just does'nt work Mike.

    A while back you commented that the PRIME RATE had risen %500,I think you said over the course of one year during the 2000's.Now you know thats just plain wrong and stupid."


    Behold the lying troll trying to erect strawman arguments to change what i actually said because he cant counter what i ACTUALLY did say........typical Right wing troll if you cant argue the facts and defeat the message attack the messenger and/or lie and change your opponents position so it can more easily be attacked and discredited.

    The truth little troll is I NEVER mentioned the "prime" rate at all and I NEVER said it rose 500% in one year.........what i said after YOU CLAIMED interest rates were at 40 year all time lows was that the Fed Funds rates had risen 500% from 2004-2006 therefore only an IMBECILE could say interest rates were at 40 year all time lows.


    As for the economy of the 2000's what i have stated on MANY occasions is it was a hollowed out economy using cooked bogus stats to overinflate GDP and underinflate both inflation and unemployment and that essentially only the very wealthy prospered under GWB.

    Like usual you use the tactics of a slimy troll because you cant counter a damn thing I say and have been dead wrong on EVERYTHING you have said the last 4 years!

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  128. "why should they be relegated to second class citizenship?"
    (regarding perverts, NOT gays)

    They're not. They have the same rights you and I do.

    "I'll have you know that some of the people with different tastes are the most upstanding individuals I have ever known ..."

    And you think I'm basing my opinion on "vocabulary preferences"??? Perversion as "different tastes"? AND using "upstanding" in the same sentence?
    Can you say "moral equivalency"?

    "...and are a lot less judgemental than others I can mention."

    They have to be. People who live in glass houses, etc...

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  129. Rusty the Troll said "Sure the economy is extremly bad,but I personally dont think we can spend our way out of this recession.You cant revise history and say FDR's New Deal worked,when it fact it extended the depression...WWII ended the depression,and that Mike is a fact even you cant revise."


    Funny thats EXACTLY what you thought when the repug Congress was in power for 12 years and GWB was in power for 8 years and you controlled virtually every facet of govenment!


    As for the New Deal it most certainly worked.......see the Great Depression wasnt 10 years of CONTINUOUS Depression it was a Depression frpm 1929-1933 followed by a tepid recovery and another severe Recession from about 1937-1940.


    Please tell me how helping the workingclass and poor "extends a Depression"............if thats what you IDIOTS actually believe you need to come out and say that.......make that a campaign platform that helping the working class and poor hurts the economy and see where it gets you ion 2010.......my guess is a threepeat of 2006 and 2008.

    Oh and one more thing litle troll the common definition of a Depression is a 10% decline in GDP lasting 3 years..........we are almost halfway there since Bush's Depression started in 2007 and GDP for the last quarter alone is down 3.8%............for the record we have not had an economic contraction last MORE than 16 months in over 60 years.........therefore yours and Rush's BS talk that this is not even as bad as the Recession that occured in 1982 under Reagan or the economy under Carter is crap!

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  130. Blogger thereturnofRusty said...

    Mike,you've been a champion of the wrongly named Fairness Doctrine for ever.It should be called the We Cant Honestly Compete So We Want The Government To Help Us Doctrine."


    BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA................sorry little troll but it seems its YOU repuggies that cant honestly compete........just look at the last 2 elections and how many people actually ADMIT to being repugs..........you clowns are becoming extinct faster than the KKK!

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  131. Rusty the troll said "You should check out the latest cable news ratings prior to pumping up MSNBC.To me it loks like Fox beats them 3 to 1.And I also think its been proven that Keith does indeed tell some lies now and again."


    Trying to misrepresent and skew ther facts again I see........what YOU need to look at is how fast Olbermans viewership is growing and how fast Rush's is declining...........answer me this how many people ACTUALLY admit to being a repug vs those who admit to being a Demacrat..........also How many liberal shows have debuted recently vs how many Conservative shows that have been canceled..........get back to me with this one Crusty!

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  132. Wow...did this ever get lively! I'd stay but I have a Super Bowl party I'm going to. Go Cards!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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  133. Blogger thereturnofRusty said...

    And yes Mike you are correct,the republicans lost both 2006 and 2008.They lost,in my opinion because they abandoned,with George Bush leading the charge,their conservative principles of lower taxes,controlled spending and of course values.

    The past two presidential elections I voted Libetarian due to my disgust with what the republican party has become..whatever they get,they deserve."


    Now who's revising histoey a clown who's done NOTHING but defend GWB and attack liberals claiming he didnt vote for Bush.

    Tell me Crusty do you ALWAYS spend 4 years of your life rabidly defending a guy who you CLAIM not to vote for because he disgusted you betraying your core principals............HMMMMMMMM?????????



    Dishonest as usual little troll!

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  134. Well Mike,

    Even that bastion of conservatism that is UCLA Berzerkely doesn't agree with you.

    Go Figure, eh?

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  135. "...what YOU need to look at is how fast Olbermans viewership is growing and how fast Rush's is declining...........answer me this how many people ACTUALLY admit to being a repug vs those who admit to being a Demacrat..........also How many liberal shows have debuted recently vs how many Conservative shows that have been canceled..."

    Well there you go. I guess you don't need the "Un-fairness doctrine after all.

    Thanks for letting us know.

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  136. Blogger Voltron said...

    "...what YOU need to look at is how fast Olbermans viewership is growing and how fast Rush's is declining...........answer me this how many people ACTUALLY admit to being a repug vs those who admit to being a Demacrat..........also How many liberal shows have debuted recently vs how many Conservative shows that have been canceled..."

    Well there you go. I guess you don't need the "Un-fairness doctrine after all.

    Thanks for letting us know."


    Well if the overwhelming majority of this country has denounced the Conservative point of view and "CHOSEN" the liberal point of view and agenda and the overwhelming majority of programming on radio and tv is STILL Conservative I think that PROVES more than ever that the MSM is not a free market but that it is CONTROLLED by a tiny minority of elites trying to deceive the masses to shape public policy and manipulate opinions to help push their greedy destructive self serving agenda.


    If as you seem to concede there IS A huge market for liberal programming and its a free market where the Best ideas win and the consumer gets what they want........why is over 90% of radio Right Wing propaganda that lies and distorts facts to brainwash America to hate liberals.


    we NEED an honesty clause and we need to bring back the Fairness Doctrine.........answer me this Duncetron "IF" you value free speech where the best ideas win not the one with the money and power to censor the better ideas and your ideas can stand up to the facts of the opposition..............WHY are you so afraid of bringing back the fairness Doctrine and giving the opposition equal time to counter or rebut your CLAIMS and vice versa for liberal shows.

    Olberman ALWAYS invites conservatives on.........seems they are too afraid to accept his challenge and go head to head with him though.

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  137. The Media is controlled bought and paid for by the Right wing and your just whining because your afraid thats going to change and your ministers of propagandfa like Hannity and Rush cant stand up to REAL freee speech and honest debate without looking like the lying dishonest partisan fools they truly are!

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  138. Mike,I've never posted a comment defending George Bush...I may have defended conservative policies but not GB.

    As for your opinion on FDR's new deal,you're just plain wrong and history shows you are...cut and dried.

    You cant make custard out of mustard concerning Fox's ratings compared to MSMBC...again you're just wrong.Why cant you ever admit when you're toatally off base.Its like your defense of Jimmy Carter...now thats just plain and simple stupid.

    As for Franks question to me about values....I lean more to Volts way of thinking.

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  139. And America told you idiots loud and clear that your dead wrong...........America spoke in 2006 and 2008 and said its sick and tired of failed Conservative propaganda lies and discredited dogma.

    Elections matter Crusty!

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  140. Obama tried to meet you idiots halfway...........he TRIED to show you clowns respect and compromise and you idiots spit in his face and said screw the middle class and poor all you want is MORE tax cuts for the Superwealthy............you turned your backs on mainstream America so dont cry when they turn their backs on you in 2010 JUST LIKE THEY DID IN 2006 and 2008!

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  141. Hey Crusty i've said the repug party was hijacked by Neo Con wacco's and that they virtually abandoned Conservative principles like small unobtrusive government, personal freedom and privacy, being fiscally responsible etc. and would die out or become a fringe regional party of the deep south if they didnt change.........you mocked, riddiculed, and called me a traitor...........Now that Mitch Mconnell said the exact same thing i'm just curious if your going to call HIM a traitor or if your masters told you to do an about face flip flop and pretend you never said any of the crap you've been spewing for the past 4 years and just deny reality and goosestep behind ole Mitch like thats been your ACTUAL position all along!

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  142. Crusty to you think the repug party will die out and become extinct like the Whig party?

    Do you think 50 years from now kids in school will ask "whats a republican just like they do with the wig party today?

    Is the Party over for the repugs Crusty?

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  143. "...what YOU need to look at is how fast Olbermans viewership is growing and how fast Rush's is declining...........answer me this how many people ACTUALLY admit to being a repug vs those who admit to being a Demacrat..........also How many liberal shows have debuted recently vs how many Conservative shows that have been canceled..."

    "The Media is controlled bought and paid for by the Right wing...


    Doesn't it hurt straddling a fence that high?

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  144. Blogger Voltron said...

    "...what YOU need to look at is how fast Olbermans viewership is growing and how fast Rush's is declining...........answer me this how many people ACTUALLY admit to being a repug vs those who admit to being a Demacrat..........also How many liberal shows have debuted recently vs how many Conservative shows that have been canceled..."

    "The Media is controlled bought and paid for by the Right wing...


    Doesn't it hurt straddling a fence that high?"


    No you repugs always babble about free markets and the market dictating what it wants and business responding to meet what the market wants.............well if the market is truly free and it is clearly demanding liberal programming and NOT getting it then its logical to conclude:

    1) The market is not truly free but controlled by self seving special interests.

    2) thus countermeasures are CLEARLY needed to insure a free market and that the markets demands are satisfied.


    Like I said if you idiots have confidence in your rhetoric, believe in freespeech and that the best ideas win out why are you so damned afraid of a Fairness Doctrine and and honesty clause...............clearly YOU want to be able to lie on the air and have an uncompetitive market where YOUR ideas dominate the market by almost 95% unchallenged.


    Therres that doublestandard again its ok for YOU guys to dominate uncompetitive markets and limit and censor the opposition but not vice versa.

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  145. See you just admitted theres clearly a larger market and demand for liberal programming than Conservative yet the radio market is almost 95% Conservative.

    So clearly the market is being manipulated and controlled by the elite special interests otherwise a "Free Market" would meet the demands and desires of the majority of consumers desiring liberal programing.

    almost 95% sounds like a monoploy to me............but the Right Wing owned FCC, SEC, etc....never met a merger or right wing ideologue they didnt like,,,,,,,,,,,and it scares the crap out of you little trolls that the Right wing no longer controls the relulatory agencies and cant make them play dead any longer to carry water for the GOP!

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  146. I think one of the factors at play here is that conservatives tend to go to talk radio for their propoganda, liberals to the newspapers for theirs. I don't know, there seems to be enough variety for everybody, if in fact you seek it out.

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  147. As to whether the New Deal "worked" or not, I don't think we'll ever be able to ascertain that for certain. This, I'm saying, in that we're dealing with an ex post facto analysis here, correlations, and about a zillion intervening variables that researchers will never be able to identify (never mind, be able to control for). I suspect, however, that the truth (as usual) lies somewhere in-between. I think it's fair to say that Roosevelt had to do SOMETHING. People were standing in soup-lines and living out of cardboard boxes. But did he go too far and do some draconian things, too? Probably yes. I mean, he was a politician, right? That's what politicians do. They over-reach (Bush in Iraq, LBJ in Vietnam, Wilson with the League of Nations, etc.). Fortunately (or unfortunately, dependingon your perspective), we have elections and the pendulum swings (sometimes too much and the we start from scratch).

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  148. Blogger Will "take no prisoners" Hart said...

    I think one of the factors at play here is that conservatives tend to go to talk radio for their propoganda, liberals to the newspapers for theirs. I don't know, there seems to be enough variety for everybody, if in fact you seek it out."


    Sorry Will but thats a bogus strawman comparison:

    1) almost 95% of the newspaper market isnt rabid liberal propaganda.

    2) if you tell a bald faced lie in a newspaper you get sued and/or called out for liable not so for Conservative radio.

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  149. Well Will in thios case the Pendulem didnt swing far enough YET.............but give it time if the repugs keep playing the same ole games and using the same ole tired discredited rhetoric and dishonest canned tired old talking points they will lose more elections and be out of power for DECADES just like what happened during the Depression.

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  150. Believe it or not, Mike, I've always agreed with you guys that the Republicans screwed up. Bush, let's just call him a cross between between Herbert Hoover and William McKinley. My only departure is that I don't have a lot of faith that the Dems are going to be appreciably better. Hopefully, I'm wrong. Sincerely, Will Hart, resident cynic.

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  151. Why can't Limbaugh be sued? I'm also curious, will the Fairness Doctrine apply to all media? Will Olbermann occasionally be forced to have a contrary opinion on? Will the New York Times be forced to have equality on their editorial page? Seriously, I don't know much about this law.

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  152. Blogger Will "take no prisoners" Hart said..."Why can't Limbaugh be sued? I'm also curious, will the Fairness Doctrine apply to all media? Will Olbermann occasionally be forced to have a contrary opinion on? Will the New York Times be forced to have equality on their editorial page? Seriously, I don't know much about this law."


    Because Will:

    1) the regulatory agencies like the FCC, SEC etc... have been in the Right Wing's pocket for the last 8 years under Bush instead of insuring diversity of opinion,and that uncompetitive monopolys and oligopolies dont form and media doesnt lie and spread propaganda they've been snoozing except for fining Janet Jackson for showing her boobs at the Superbowl.

    2) Rush "HIDES" behind passing his own opinion of as verified fact, as well as CLAIMING that "experts in the field" say this...........any credible expert would be willing to have the credibility of their name stand behind their claim...............Olberman ALWAYS has his experts on the show rather than having anonymous people allegedly supporting his positions or claims.

    3) Another difference between Olberman and lying shills trying to brainwash and manipulate the simpleminded and ignorant like Rush, Hannity, O'reilly etc.... and Olberman is Olberman pretty much always lists who these experts or sources are or has them on the show, he uses verifiable facts not his own opinion or that of some alleged anonymous expert, and he is always willing to have the opposition come on the show something the Right Wing is deathly afraid of for good reason because they dont deal in facts just propaganda.

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  153. Also will regardng newspaper........while certain newspapers may have a slight bias/political slant

    their is an opinion section and they are far more fact based than tv and radio............further close to 95% of all newspapers are not biased to one political party, while Radio is almost 95% Right Wing and I would guess that tv is probably 80% or so slanted to the right with Fox being the Far Right Neo Cons clinging to the edge of the planet hoping they dont fall off because they are so far out in the fringe Right.


    If you dont think one political party controlling almost 95% of a market is a problem when that market has shifted strogly the opposite direction then I cant help you.

    Hell if Radio or tv were 95% liberal even with the majority of our country shifting to the liberal perspective that would be a problem and it would be wrong.........but with the majority of the nation shifting liberal and desiring liberal positions, programming and values and a market is almost 85% Conservative I dont think you can have a red flag screaming any louder than that that this market is being manipulated and controlled by powerful elite self interests and needs to be regulated and monitored for it to be a free and competitive market where the best ideas win out rather than the ones the elite cronnies are trying to foist on us and brainwash the simpleminded and ignorant with.

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  154. I guess a lot of it is perception. I don't see 80% of tv as tilting to the right. I don't see Katie Couric, Brian Williams (especially not him), or Charlie Gibson tilting to the right. And magazines. "Newsweek" used to call it pretty much down the even. Now most of their Commentators lean left and the magazine as a whole had Obama on the cover (with favorable coverage inside) a truckload of times. Instead of getting the government involved in regulating this stuff, I'd rather have, say, Ted Turner and George Soros put up some money and start some liberal stations, hire Ed Schultz, Stephanie Miller, Alan Colmes, etc.. I mean, think about it. There's not a lack of shrillness on the left, either. The Daily Kos, Yikes!!

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  155. Seems as if Tom Daschel is coming up a wee bit slimy.In the last couple years he took over 200 grand from health care groups and had a car and driver supplied him by a "friend" and forgot to declare
    it as income.....forgot about it until last week that is.Should this sleeze withdraw his nomination?

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  156. Blogger Will "take no prisoners" Hart said...

    I guess a lot of it is perception. I don't see 80% of tv as tilting to the right. I don't see Katie Couric, Brian Williams (especially not him), or Charlie Gibson tilting to the right. And magazines. "Newsweek" used to call it pretty much down the even. Now most of their Commentators lean left and the magazine as a whole had Obama on the cover (with favorable coverage inside) a truckload of times. Instead of getting the government involved in regulating this stuff, I'd rather have, say, Ted Turner and George Soros put up some money and start some liberal stations, hire Ed Schultz, Stephanie Miller, Alan Colmes, etc.. I mean, think about it. There's not a lack of shrillness on the left, either. The Daily Kos, Yikes!!"


    Will for some reason you and millions of people like you seem to be confusing being partisan or having a slight bias with deliberately lying, and misrepresenting opinions as facts.

    I have no problem with a few channels or radio stations offerering partisan or slanted programming for the small niche markets they appeal to however If they are going to push opinion over verifiable facts they NEED to state that this is their opinion and stop misrepresenting their programming as credible news rather than opinion/propaganda to give it the illusion of credibility.

    Further if a show is all or predominantly opinion then they NEED to offer the opposition time to rebutt their opinions as well or else its a propaganda show just like Banana republics and Russia and Germany used to manipulate and deceive the simpleminded.

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  157. Blogger Will "take no prisoners" Hart said...

    I guess a lot of it is perception. I don't see 80% of tv as tilting to the right. I don't see Katie Couric, Brian Williams (especially not him), or Charlie Gibson tilting to the right. And magazines. "Newsweek" used to call it pretty much down the even. Now most of their Commentators lean left and the magazine as a whole had Obama on the cover (with favorable coverage inside) a truckload of times. Instead of getting the government involved in regulating this stuff, I'd rather have, say, Ted Turner and George Soros put up some money and start some liberal stations, hire Ed Schultz, Stephanie Miller, Alan Colmes, etc.. I mean, think about it. There's not a lack of shrillness on the left, either. The Daily Kos, Yikes!!"


    Well Couric and Gibson certainly tilt to the Right in my book........did you see the debate Gibson hosted he was CLKEARLY for the Right also did you see the piece of propaganda ABC aired before the 2006 elections about 9/11 it was pure Right Wing propaganda trying to smear Clinton and the demacrats.

    No I dont like Couric or Gibson..........I Bryan Williams is ok though and I really like Stephanie Miller and Ed Schultz.

    One other Point how is having Obama on the cover or giving a newly elected President "tilting to the left"............are you saying the media shold be attacking a newly elected president in a time of national crisis?

    I find that logic "interesting" particularly since when Bush was elected and after 9/11 and the Iraq war hell for his entire first term he was on lots of covers and got pretty favorable press coverage..........yet I didnt hear you or Voltron saying the media tilts to the right.

    Further you STILL havent responded to the Right Wing controlling almost 95% of radio.......sure you've igbored that very relevant point and tried to water it down by saying you dont think the media tilts to the right and it might be a good idea to make a few more liberal shows...........BUT and thats a boig but you havent touched the points about one poliical party controlling almost 95% of a media market or being allowed to lie on the air or try to pass opinion off as facts........why is that Will?

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  158. Oh look more inconvienient facts you idiots dont like and cant rebut and in slithers Rusty to bury things with his imbecilic babble!

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  159. HMMM............we were intensely discussing the need for media reform and in slithers Crusty trying to hijack the thread with BS about Tom Daschl...........who cares Crusty!


    Like I said ALL you idiots have left is scorched earth finger pointing thats why you will get handed your asses AGAIN and lose even MORE power in 2010!

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  160. Elections Matter Crusty!

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  161. Mike,

    I literally don't know what to say to you. I don't want to be mean spirited, but I'm tempted to question your mental acuity.

    Your assertion that television in biased to the right by 80%, can only mean it doesn't slant far enough to the left for you.

    I cannot watch the major networks or most cable news channels because of their constant fawning and admiration for Obama and constant defense of democrats and constant persecution of republicans.

    The same for news magazines like Time and Newsweak, and for most major newspapers.

    As long as you continue to claim your non partisan and still claim what you have here, we can't have a reasonable debate on this.

    The ONLY media conservatives have is AM radio and Fox news, and you think that's too much.

    I don't know who you think the other networks are preaching to, but it certainly isn't me or other conservatives.

    You are either an extreme left winger or are mentally incompetent or both.

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  162. Clearly we cant have an "HONEST" debate Voltron ............because you sem to think its ok for FAUX News to lie and try to misrepresent opinion as fact and for almost 95% of Radio to be Right Wing and to use that monopoly power to also lie and try to misrepresent opinion as fact.

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  163. If your going to concede and slither off under your bridge or somthing thats cool Volt...........but i'm not backing off one bit........i agree with Lydia and Bart that we need to insure markets are free, that there is diversity of opinion and that opinion is not being masqueraded as fact because thats a serious problem.

    You seem to forget how the media fawed all overr Bush for his entire first term........its normal for a new president to get good press and the benefit of the doubt but the way the media let itself be used as a propaganda tool for the Right Wing during Bush's first term to silence any disent about Iraq and attack anyone questioning the war was ORWELLIAN!

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  164. And once again the Right Wing seems to LOVE trying to confuse people with the strawman that being partisan is similar to lying and misrepresenting opinion as facts.........while Olberman may certainly be partisan like Hannity and Rush he seldom if ever lies, and misrepresents opinions as facts as they ALWAYS do........Olberman dares your guys to come on his show Hannity and Rush.........not so much!

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  165. Voltron said"I cannot watch the major networks or most cable news channels because of their constant fawning and admiration for Obama and constant defense of democrats and constant persecution of republicans."


    Funny how you didnt seem to mind a bit when the media fawned over GWB and carried water for the Neo Con lies for all those years!

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  166. "You seem to forget how the media fawed all overr Bush for his entire first term........its normal for a new president to get good press and the benefit of the doubt but the way the media let itself be used as a propaganda tool for the Right Wing during Bush's first term to silence any disent about Iraq and attack anyone questioning the war was ORWELLIAN!"

    Just curious, what planet does your TV receive signals from?

    Ever since the first day it was "selected not elected", and coverage was only decent for a couple of weeks after 9/11.

    After the attack Bush was attacked for not doing anything for 6 months, and then after Afghanistan it was why the rush to war?

    And EVERYTHING since then has been Bush or the Republicans fault.

    The rest of the country shouldn't be held accountable for your selective memory.

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  167. Nevermind.

    I'm not going to waste my time today arguing with a brainwashed fool.

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  168. Better question is what station do YOU watch...............it must be the All Neo Con all the time station.......and it must include a lifetime supply of rose colored glasses/.............only a fool could think the MSM is NOT Right Wing.

    And as for your ranting about the media NOT attacking Obama..............we are in a national crisis and at this point he hasnt done anything to merit an attack Volty!

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  169. I can't believe it. I just spent 20 minutes typing in a comment and it didn't go through.Damn it! I'll try later.

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  170. I thought we were debating nicely here, Mike. Why do you have to call me an idiot? I thought we had gotten beyond that (I will not respond in kind, btw). I don't know about the 95%, Mike. I don't listen to talk radio. And I certainly don't care for Rush Limbaugh (ask Voltron what I think of Limbaugh). Curious. Are Stephanie Miller, Ed Schultz, Alan Colmes, Thom Hartmann, etc. only part of 5%? I'm just asking. As for the networks in general tilting to the right, I guess we're just going to have to agree to disagree on that one (the only other person I've ever heard say that before was the far-left Eric Altermann). Yes, Bush got decent coverage after 9/11, but during the campaign of 2000, I really don't think so (remember how Dan Rather basically did flip-flops after he initially called it for Gore?). And after the Iraq War went sour, the coverage was absolutely brutal (some of it justifiable, absolutely). As for all of those "Newsweek" covers, they happened DURING THE CAMPAIGN, not after. Their "tilting" for Obama was palpable. Hey, Mike, I'm not the enemy, O.K.? Just trying to flush some of these issues out a little bit more, alright? Later, fellows.

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  171. Lydia, how 'bout more pictures of the dog and less of Jm (no i, right?)? PLEASE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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  172. Nobody is going to go search the internet for you little bondage dipshit then go. We've wasted all the time we are not going to waste on a homeschooled inbred too stupid to remember the comments we've already posted on the subject.

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  173. And I am not going to tell you again. If you're too stupid to figure it out then don't bother coming back either.

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  174. Wow, I guess she told you off, Will.

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  175. Uh....well, Jackie what you're talking about or who you're directing it at. So for now, your comments are non gradus anus rodentum. AFAIC

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  176. When you really get down to it, the bottom line for the media is...well...the bottom line. IMO, it's really all about the money. The media doesn't tell what to think but it does tell what we should be thinking about which generally translates into selling product.
    Take a look at the whole Jessica Simpson fiasco this week. I saw the pictures of her in those high waisted jeans and thought she looked good. Ah...but the celebrity press with their so called experts found many flaws. She didn't fit the image but more importantly you're signaling to women that they need to go and spend money on diet products, gym memberships and whatever. Bottom line if you don't measure up to the media image then you're somehow flawed.
    Another example is Dr. Jerome Corsi. Corsi burst onto the scene in 2004 as the co-author of Unfit For Command, the book about John Kerry's Vietnam war record. He next made national press in 2008 with "The Obama Nation" about Barak Obama. The book rocketed to the top of the NY Times bestseller list and got Corsi an appearance on Larry King. Then the roof fell in on him so to speak. First of all, the Obama camp published a 49 page rebuttal on their website that pointed out all of the lies in the book. Secondly, he got "outed" as an anti-semite, anti-catholic, bigot. Finally, it turned out that those sales figures from the NY Times were do in large part to mass purchases of his book by several ultra right wing foundations/think tanks. This pretty well tanked whatever credibility he might have had to the point where the man that co-authored Unfit For Command is now claiming that Corsi really wasn't the co-author rather he was some kind of editor. Corsi has dropped into the obscurity that he so richly deserves. He's now pretty much unmarketable.
    My point is that most of the media today is pretty much powered the bottom line. Quit buying products from Limbaugh's sponsor and pretty old Rush will disappear.

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  177. Hey Will did I ever call you PERSONALLY an idiot, or state you are the enemy?............Further maybe you should actually do some research before you try to water down what i say by questioning my facts, questioning how much of radio the Right controls and naming people from the left to try to imply its more fair and balanced than it really is.


    Look Will you have every right to have an oppinion on this and i'm not tryingto stifle your opinion but your oppinion would have much more weight and credibility if it were backed up by facts and if it didnt try to water down every real issue the left makes with factless boondoggles............just like Bartlebee said!

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  178. That's actually a good idea, Frank.

    For years, the right wing whackos used product boycotts as a tool against programs, radio stations, and so forth. Maybe we should do the same -- in today's economy where companies are desperate to sell their product AND to save money, some of them might end up dumping el Flushbo if we let them know we're boycotting them and why.

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  179. Will "take no prisoners" Hart said...
    , Bush got decent coverage after 9/11, but during the campaign of 2000, I really don't think so (remember how Dan Rather basically did flip-flops after he initially called it for Gore


    Here, at risk of being yelled at for daring to call attention to the trolls subtle seeding of neocon ideology, allow me to put to rest the question of Will.

    Dan Rather did not "flip flop" and the media wasn't "left tilting".

    The election was called for Al Gore by all THREE major networks.

    Not "Dan Rather".

    The right wing constantly draws Dan Rather because of the Bush letter fiasco, and uses him as a token of liberal left wing media.

    The truth is of course that night all three major networks called the election for Gore, because Gore won.

    No "left wing bias". Gore won Florida.

    Later that evening, a Fox news manager who also happened to be a cousin to George W Bush, called the election for Bush.

    The other 3 networks thinking they had made a mistake, then simply dismissed their exit polls and went with Fox, for some odd reason.

    Giving the right wing the Presidency.

    Some "liberal media bias".


    No true "liberal" would confuse the facts of that night, or draw Dan Rather as a token when all three major networks said the same thing.

    This is only something neocons do.

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  180. "For years, the right wing whackos used product boycotts as a tool against programs, radio stations, and so forth."

    Yeah! The way we took down your Dr. Laura and Michael Savage!

    ...er, wait, that wasn't us that did that was it?

    What's that? They're not yours either?

    Just did a google search for radio boycotts and you know what?

    I couldn't find an example of right wingers taking down a liberal radio program...

    I bet google is controlled by the right wing!

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  181. As a matter of fact since I just stated Google is right wing, it now is.

    So please no lying! All discussion will now proceed from the fact that Google is right wing. Anything else is simply partisan lies.

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  182. "The other 3 networks thinking they had made a mistake, then simply dismissed their exit polls and went with Fox, for some odd reason.

    Giving the right wing the Presidency."


    Wow, and all this time I've been under the assumption that Bush won the electoral count.

    The MEDIA elected him you say?

    Well I'll be damnned!
    (I know Bart, I know...)

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  183. I don't care what he says Mike, or who believes him. No prog or liberal would ever confuse the events of that night by calling it "Dan Rather flip flopping".

    That was the night liberty died.

    I doubt there will ever be a reckoning on that event, but no true prog would ever refer to it as "Dan Rather flip flopping".

    Dan Rather is the token draw of the right wing troll. On the right they feel that Dan Rather's downfall demonstrated the blatant bias of the left and they use it to discredit every piece of news research produced by the left.

    Liberals don't bring up Dan Rather in that context. Just like a conservative would never bring up Ted Haggard in an attempt to prove right wing moral purity.

    That was a "tell" of the first order.

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  184. Blogger Voltron said...

    "For years, the right wing whackos used product boycotts as a tool against programs, radio stations, and so forth."

    Yeah! The way we took down your Dr. Laura and Michael Savage!

    ...er, wait, that wasn't us that did that was it?

    What's that? They're not yours either?

    Just did a google search for radio boycotts and you know what?

    I couldn't find an example of right wingers taking down a liberal radio program...

    I bet google is controlled by the right wing!"


    Thats because as I stated numerous times there are essentially no liberal radio shows..............."IF" there were any less it would be essntially 100% Right Wing and even delusional fools like you would have to admit it is an uncompetitive monopoly and not a free market...................see you like a token liberal on the radio around 5% or so, so you can say you clowns DONT have a monopoly over the airwaves.

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  185. Voltron said...
    "The other 3 networks thinking they had made a mistake, then simply dismissed their exit polls and went with Fox, for some odd reason.

    Giving the right wing the Presidency."

    Wow, and all this time I've been under the assumption that Bush won the electoral count.


    Apparently you don't know what the electoral count is, other wise you'd not responded to that statement that way.

    He didn't win the electoral votes from Florida until Florida was given to him by his cousin over at Fox, who after all three major networks exit polls showed Gore clearly in the lead, Fox suddenly produced their own data, declaring Bush won Florida, thus the Florida electoral votes would go to him at that point.

    They didn't however because of a challenge, based on the President elects brother ordering the state police to set up road blocks coming out of Broward County, stopping some 16,000 African American voters, who also happened to be registered democrats, from getting to the polls and voting.

    Due to that and other campaign skullduggery, a recount occured, in which the woman put in charge of the recount also happened to be the chair for the florida republican election committee.

    She in turn just simply tossed out tens of thousands of democrat votes until Bush was ahead slightly, then called it for her guy.

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  186. But thanks for answering for Will.

    It's amazing how Will's best defenders are you, Frank and cRusty.

    Guess it's just a coinkydink.

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  187. I've thought Will has acted like a concern troll/buffer troll from the day i met him.............i've been trying to be a bit more civil to him lately because i think a concern troll is worse than an out of the closet troll like voltron so I attacked him kind of hard.

    Bottom line regardless of whether Will is or is not a Right Winger or thinks he's being fair and balanced, or holds some liberal positions and views, he has a Right wing ideology and views the world through a hyper partisan Right wing prism and thats been obvious from day one.

    He loves to undercut, water down, sabotage, inpugn the credibility of and subtly attack any left wing position or person while hiding behind being unbiased or fair to the Right

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  188. I've never denied we own AM radio Mikey. The problem is you guys own everything else except for Fox, and Fox only tilts our way slightly.

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  189. And then only on the commentary side.

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  190. Well Bart, you guys DID give it the old college try though.

    You guys had the military vote thrown out thinking it would be predominantly for Bush.

    You guys got the Floriduh Supreme Court to overturn that pesky law that the votes had to be certified in 3 days, AND to allow recounts in only selected areas which predominantly went for Algore.

    You guys also registered all the felons who by law weren't supposed to vote.

    What more could you do?

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  191. You should've had all the votes for your guy double counted and the ones for your opponent thrown out.

    You know, like they're doing in Minnesota?

    That might have done it.

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  192. Mike said...
    I've thought Will has acted like a concern troll/buffer troll from the day i met him.............i've been trying to be a bit more civil to him lately because i think a concern troll is worse than an out of the closet troll like voltron so I attacked him kind of hard.


    Well we've got to be more civil cause Lydia demands it now and that's fine.

    As to him being a concern troll there's no doubt from this side.

    I dont' care what anyone says, the Dan Rather slip was a "tell". And I play a mean hand of poker. I can spot a tell a mile away, and that was a tell.

    In any other context I might say there's room for doubt, but no liberal would define that night, the night liberty died, the night of the 2000 Bush\Gore election, as "Dan Rather flip flopping".

    No way.

    Every liberal, progressive etc over 30 has that memory burned into their evening, and not one of them would ever describe all three major netorks calling the election for Bush, then recanting when Fox news called it for Bush, as "Dan Rather Flip Flopping".

    Dan Rather is the quick draw response for anything to do with the media. It's the right wings way of bashing liberal press. When Dan Rather took that story and ran with it using a questionable document, the right seized on that as the one pinnacle of all left wing journalism and they go to it like a shark to blood.

    When took that night, and defined it with as "Dan Rather flip flopping", then he gave up the ulimate tell.

    No "progressive" would have ever said that.

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  193. "Apparently you don't know what the electoral count is, other wise you'd not responded to that statement that way.

    He didn't win the electoral votes from Florida until Florida was given to him by his cousin over at Fox, who after all three major networks exit polls showed Gore clearly in the lead, Fox suddenly produced their own data, declaring Bush won Florida, thus the Florida electoral votes would go to him at that point."


    Apparently you don't know what the electoral count is. The vote count has to be officially certified.

    The MEDIA cannot direct the electoral vote.

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  194. I didn't say the media directed the electoral vote. Apparently you can't read.

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  195. "Fox suddenly produced their own data, declaring Bush won Florida, thus the Florida electoral votes would go to him at that point."

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  196. The media however influences the electoral college, as everyone who knows what the electoral college is, would know.

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