Monday, September 22, 2008

THE BAILOUT

I really feel we are in good hands with Paulson. I know this sounds like an about-face from yesterday, when I was outraged about the Section 8 clause in the bailout bill, but now I've researched everything there is to know about Paulson and I absolutely believe that he has our best interests at heart. He is a Rockefeller Republican, not a neocon and there are other reasons I feel he will be a good steward of our money. I also believe he will not leave foreclosed upon homeowners out in the cold. Before this crisis, he helped to create the Hope Now Alliance to help struggling homeowners during the subprime mortgage financial crisis.*

Notable among the members of Bush's cabinet, Paulson has said he is a strong believer in the effect of human activity on global warming and advocates immediate action to decrease this effect.*

As an environmental leader and philanthropist, Paulson while at Goldman Sachs, oversaw the corporate donation of 680,000 forested acres on the Chilean side of Tierra del Fuego, which led to criticisms from Goldman shareholder groups. He further donated US$100 million of assets from his wealth to conservancy causes. He pledged his entire fortune for the same purpose at death. He has also been considered someone who can influence world and business leaders to think beyond the bottom line. * From Wikipedia

Democrats Work With Paulson on Rescue; Some Republicans Object
By James Rowley and Alison Vekshin

Sept. 23 (Bloomberg) -- Members of President George W. Bush's own party are voicing their opposition to his financial rescue plan even as Democratic leaders narrow their differences with the administration.

Congressional leaders said the $700 billion measure is needed to calm market turmoil and they hope to complete talks and pass the measure as soon as this week. Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson agreed with Democratic demands that Congress can create an oversight structure, House Financial Services Committee Chairman Barney Frank said.

__________________________________
"Let us insist on raising funds of love, of kindness, of understanding, of peace. Money will come if we seek first the kingdom of God (which is within us)" - Mother Teresa

"We are talking very aggressively with other countries" … the US Treasury Secretary, Henry Paulson, on the American ABC's This Week program. Photo: AFP

GOP takes brunt of blame on economy, poll says
By nearly a two-to-one ratio, Americans blame Republicans over Democrats for the financial crisis that has swept across the country the past few weeks, a new national poll suggests.

Here is Section 8 of the new "700 billion dollar Republican bailout bill," which virtually rewards the crooks for taking our money, and takes money away from the American whose home was foreclosed on — with no room to negotiate! This should stop your heart:
Sec. 8. Review.
Decisions by the Secretary pursuant to the authority of this Act are non-reviewable and committed to agency discretion, and may not be reviewed by any court of law or any administrative agency.

READ SECTION 8 AGAIN. Why is this bill non-reviewable? Certain people are saying that whoever wrote this clause should have his citizenship revoked. This is positively un-American. Think about it and post your answers here in the comment section.
_____________________

“What lies behind us and what lies before us are tiny matters compared to what lies within us.” - Ralph Waldo Emerson


GOOD NEWS: Compostable, Biodegradable PLASTIC CUPS MADE OF CORN!
I invite readers to please leave comments on any silver linings you see in our money crisis, the 700 billion dollar bailout being proposed by Paulson, and how we can fix our economy.I see it already happening. Yesterday my son bought a strawberry smoothie from Urth Cafe. It came in a cup that was made entirely from a natural renewable material derived from corn! And it looks and feels just like plastic. It is 100% compostable. I have long thought we should invent "plastic" bottles made of celery fiber. I think innovation and spiritual progressive thought is going to triumph over the dark forces of greed, fossil fuel drilling and regressive thought. This election should be a landslide...

MORE GOOD NEWS: CONYERS DEMANDS 'IMMEDIATE HALT TO GOP SUPPRESSION EFFORTS'
U.S. House Judiciary Chair Announces Hearings, Requests DoJ Investigation Into Recent Reports of GOP 'Vote Caging' Schemes...

The U.S. House Judiciary chairman has sent a letter to John McCain demanding he immediately cease recent voter suppression efforts such as the reported GOP scheme to use home foreclosure lists to challenge voters in Michigan, and apparent "caging" letters akin to those sent to Democratic voters in Florida. He has also called on AG Mukasey to begin an investigation into these activities and has announced hearings on the matters in a statement released today... bradblog.com

“Enthusiasm is that secret and harmonious spirit which hovers over the production of genius.”
Isaac Disraeli
______________________________
EVEN MORE GOOD NEWS: Greener, Cleaner Crude Oil From Algae

A New Zealand company says it has produced the first samples of green crude oil at a commercially competitive price, made from wild algae grown on human sewage. The biodiesel is extracted from the algae's natural oils and produces 90 percent less emissions than regular diesel.

Focus on the good, and the good will be your reality. The more you fill your heart with love, the more love surrounds you, as a coat of armor. You will become invincible.

70 comments:

  1. Silver linings? You mean other than showing everyone what WOULD have happened to Social Security if Bush and McCain had their way with privatization?

    GOP Suppression efforts. It seems as if the longer Republicans are in power the less transparency there is. They work their asses off to suppress Trooper-Gate, McCain refuses to allow anyone to EVER get a glimpse of the transcripts of his "interrogations" by his Vietnamese captors. I mean, what does he have to hide?

    Why can't people put two and two together and figure out a simple equation. Suppression = Guilt.

    ReplyDelete
  2. If this finally does McCavein's chances in, at least it will have accomplished THAT.

    ReplyDelete
  3. Just posted the heart-stopping SECTION 8 of Paulson's 700 billion dollar bailout bill.

    Please read it and tell us what you think.

    ReplyDelete
  4. Lydia Section 8 is just like that paragraph i posted about a few days ago authorizing Wall Street firms to raid peoples stock accounts and use their life savings without authorization and knowledge so the Wall street firms can stay solvent.........they are trying to make ALL their criminal actions LEGAL JUST LIKE BUSH AND CHENEY DID with torture, warrantless unconstitutional spying, impprisonment without cause, destruction of Habeous Corpus, denying people a jury trial by their peers and proper rules of evidence, ............These people want to make themselves above the law and above the Constitution.

    its unheard of and under NO CIRCUMSTANCES should ANYBODY EVER have their decisions be unreviewable and not subject to be examined by the courts as to constitutionality.............if Paulson doesnt have the guts or confidence to stand behind his decisions then the little repug coward should resign and let a braver and more competent man take over.

    Bernanke and Paulson are part of the problem, if they are afraid to part of the solution then good riddance I hope the door doesnt hit him in the ass.

    ReplyDelete
  5. We need to hold people accountable for their actions the repugs always want to operate outside the law and the Constitition..........these criminal thugs have used the Presidential Pardon as a get out of jail free card to operate a criminal syndicate and we NEED to close that loopole just like we need to regulate wall street and the Media empires and conglomerates.

    we need to put clear limits on the scope of the Presidential pardon and the power of the president himself, we also need to regulate wall street and break up companies that are either too powerful or too big to fail.

    ReplyDelete
  6. Thats standard operating procedure for the fascist cronnies, they LOVE to use a crisis to line their pockets or as a get out of jail free card for their crimes or poor judgement..............remember 9/11 and all the fascist police state power grabs they used THAT crsis to ram through..............they love inserting little crimminal power grabs into hundred even thousand page documents in the dead of night!

    ReplyDelete
  7. I think when i apply for a promotion at work i'll inform them that i demand my decisions are non reviewable by ANY court or agency and I can not be held responsible or accountable for the consequences of ANY of my decisions.............sound like a plan...............hey maybe i'll play that card again during a crisis.

    ReplyDelete
  8. Lydia section 8 IS unconstitutional, because congress can't write any law which does not allow the courts to do their constitutional duty, UNLESS they change the constitution.

    ReplyDelete
  9. clif is on the money. Assuming a Justice or two retires in the Obama era, Section 8 will be struck.And I do now believe that it will be the Obama era.

    ReplyDelete
  10. Robert, Jr, Mike and Clif -- do you think the American pubic who hears Obama bashing 24/7 on right-wing hate will really understand how this crisis was created?

    Because on these Democrat-bashing talk shows on the radio, they are blaming the Dems for everything. Do you think the truth will overcome these lies?

    I do. Because a lie has no substance.

    ReplyDelete
  11. Wow Robert - McCain refuses to allow anyone to EVER get a glimpse of the transcripts of his interrogations as a POW?

    I did not know that!!

    ReplyDelete
  12. I've had a turnabout regarding Henry Paulson. Please read the updates.

    Thank you.

    ReplyDelete
  13. Lydia, I don't give a RATS ASS whether Paulson plays at being the good boy from wall street tryin' to save wall streets sorry ass, because Reagan said it best;

    TRUST but VERIFY

    Section 8 is a slimy attempt to STOP verification in it's tracks.

    Remember he was Chairman and CEO, Goldman Sachs from June 1998 – July 3, 2006, the entire period the sub-prime fiasco was hatched, grew under republican NON regulation, then ran to the Treasury to try to save wall streets sorry butts when the whole house of cards started to collapse.

    Goldman Sachs under his direction was just as deep into creation of the sub prime mess as any other Wall Street investment bank who set up the whole house of cards.

    The two differences between G-S and places like Merril Lynch, Bear Stearns or Lehman Brothers, was;

    1. Only Goldman Sachs usually gets to put their people in powerful places in government;

    a. Henry Paulson - Current United States Treasury Secretary.

    b. Robert Zoellick - United States Trade Representative (2001-2005), Deputy Secretary of State (2005-2006), World Bank President.

    c. Joshua Bolten - current White House Chief of Staff

    d. Jon Corzine - Governor of the State of New Jersey.

    e. John Thain - Chairman and CEO, Merrill Lynch, CEO of New York Stock Exchange during the most toxic period of the sub prime mess.

    f. Mark Carney - Current Governor of the Bank of Canada

    g. George Herbert Walker IV - member of the Bush family and current managing director at Lehman Brothers

    h. Robert Rubin - Former United States Treasury Secretary, ex-Chairman of Citigroup.

    But secondly more important Goldman Sachs began to short the sub-prime mess when they saw it was gonna crash.

    In other words Goldamn Sachs made LOTS of money helping set up the whole fiasco, and when they saw that the house of cards was gonna crash they just became the greediest of all pigs on wall street and made money during the slow motion crash.

    Sorry but any body who lead that sub human morals crowd ain't got MY trust at all.

    So Hank Paulson needs to be watched closely to make sure he don't help set up an even bigger rip off of the little people to line the pockets of Wall Street even more.

    Cause he is just as guilty as any of the other crooks on Wall Street, at the Fed, and mortgage companies who set up the sub prime ponzi scheme in the first place.

    ReplyDelete
  14. Jolly, there is NO way the retards who think Rush tells the truth will ever understand how and why this crisis developed, because they are selling crap like Fannie Mae STARTED it.

    They refuse to admit Wall street banks told the mortgage underwriters to sell crap mortgages to them and write more mortgages MANY more mortgages.

    Because every crook in that food chain was making loads of crooked money by setting up people who don't understand the 100's of pages of legalize in their mortgage documents.

    Then criminally stealing from people they sold those toxic mortgages to as AAA investment vehicles.

    Alan Greenspan was their dealer in pushing the interest rates waaayyyyy down to facilitate this criminal empire, and the banks knew as long as they could sell their illegally written mortgages to others they could keep writing their fairy tale loans and selling them as solid non fiction to people who wanted to make money by hook or crook.

    Add to the mix the refusal of republicans to enforce the lax regulations they had set up in 2000, and you have the ingredients for a meltdown when the first greedy pig in the food chain got nervous and tried to cash out.

    The wing-tards and the lying a$$holes who fill their heads with crap ain't gonna deal with historical facts because they would have to stop drinkin' the kool-aid and LEARN the facts about how wrong they have been for decades.

    That ain't gonna happen any more then the LOSERS from the Civil War or their descendants are gonna admit the SOUTH WAS WRONG during that era.

    Just like the volkstrum from the middle of the last century, these clueless idiots will just have to be run over by history and left on the side of the road screeching that everyone but them is wrong.

    So they will blame anybody or anything but the people who actually set up the fiasco, and made the money while times were good, but now are asking for corporate welfare to save their sorry asses.

    ReplyDelete
  15. Yeah, there's no reason to think mthat the segment of voters I affectionately refer to as "wingtards" are going to wise up. But there are segments of the voting population, like senior citizens, who probably ARE going to understand who caused this.

    A lot of our seniors are old enough to remember the Depression, and the polling already shows them heading to the Obama camp.

    ReplyDelete
  16. New poll, new record;

    George W. Bush.

    Approve 19%, Disapprove 76%

    John McCain Supported him at least 90% of the time!

    Shouldn't he get 90% of the poll?

    ReplyDelete
  17. Sarah Palin Meets The World Leaders


    This is Sarah Palin's big day at the U.N.,

    Where she'll be meeting Afghan President Hamid Karzai,

    Colombian President Alvaro Uribe

    Former Secretary of State Henry Kissinger.

    Wanna bet she thinks all three are foreign leaders?

    ReplyDelete
  18. BTW, One American in five thinks the Sun revolves around the Earth.

    So there.

    There's your 19 percent Bush lovers.

    ReplyDelete
  19. I am feeling better and better about Henry Paulson and Bernake at the helm.

    By the way, they have 44 warrants out and have seized the assets of these "golden parachute" CEOs -- so they are not making off with wealth at our expense -- AT LEAST IN THIS CASE.

    And they are going after the corruption and illegal activities harder than ever.

    But Paulson has a remedy that he knows will be the only way we can save our economy and also fix the structural problems underlying this mess. He is astounded at what he saw when he came in and tried to unravel the "regulatory structure" that was based on a completely flawed model.

    ReplyDelete
  20. A broad group of smaller banks and credit unions are going to be "saved" through this bailout.

    ReplyDelete
  21. This bailout is an awful lot like making us pay for our own rape kit.

    ReplyDelete
  22. Robert that McCain video of Vets speaking out is ASTOUNDING.

    this should catch on virally like wildfire.

    By the way, did anyone see Paulson this morning? Please watch and also hear the analysis of the Washington Post financial guy on MSNBC (on Dick Gregory's show)

    They really, really are doing the only possible thing - with oversight and taxpayer protections -- that will save our economy and hold those thugs accountable.

    They are also prosecuting and going after the "short-sellers' and cleaning up corruption. Paulson is not another neo-con, believe me!!

    ReplyDelete
  23. Lydia Cornell said...
    I've had a turnabout regarding Henry Paulson. Please read the updates.


    I am so glad you took a closer look at this Lydia. It takes maturity to do a flip publiclly on an issue like this and only the smartest people usually do it.

    You're right.

    The people complaining about bailing out "Wall Street" are not thinking.

    You ask these same people what they'd do and they say "let the banks fail".


    That statement is an amazingly obtuse view of the economy, in that these people don't seem to understand that if the banks fail, we all fail. Where do these people think they'll get money once this happens?

    Jobs will be lost by the millions overnight. Bank accounts will be frozen and your money will disappear before your very eyes.

    This is not a small thing. Theres 400 million people in this country.

    Look.

    The Democrats and Republicans who are in Congress right now making flowery speeches about not "rewarding the Wall Street crooks" are just playing politics.

    The Democrats don't want the economy to turn around because it would remove a voting issue in 2 months. They want to weather the storm so that on election day the economy is in the tank, so people will vote against the incumbents.

    I know no one wants to admit that but its true. The democrats WANT the economy to suffer right now. If this bill turns it around, it could cost them votes in November.

    The fact is a bailout is out only option at this point. Not bailing out our banking system means an end to the US as we know it.

    I'm tired of all the smug speeches about "I don't want my tax dollars bailing out Wall Street fat cats".

    The bottom line is if we don't bail out the banking system, then we all will lose everything.

    This is not an option. Not a choice.

    ReplyDelete
  24. Credit is FROZEN in this country.

    FROZEN.

    Not just in the housing market. Everywhere.

    Unless we back these mortgage securities that no one will buy, we will be bankrupt as a nation.

    ReplyDelete
  25. Lydia Cornell said...
    I am feeling better and better about Henry Paulson and Bernake at the helm.

    By the way, they have 44 warrants out and have seized the assets of these "golden parachute" CEOs -- so they are not making off with wealth at our expense -- AT LEAST IN THIS CASE.

    And they are going after the corruption and illegal activities harder than ever.

    But Paulson has a remedy that he knows will be the only way we can save our economy and also fix the structural problems underlying this mess. He is astounded at what he saw when he came in and tried to unravel the "regulatory structure" that was based on a completely flawed model."


    Lydia in all fairness to what your saying and to Paulson and Bernanke, i'm trying to keep a somewhat open mind and not rush to judgement on them since I havent seen what he has said TODAY.................that said while your right Paulson and Bernanke are NOT Neo Cons, they are most definately part of the Wall Street culture of corruption................like Clif said their failed policies along with their side kick Greenspan and all their greedy sidekicks at the Wall Street brokerages and Mortgage firms directly lead to and caused this crisis so please forgive me for NOT trusting the criminals that robbed the bank completely to provide the solution.

    Further and even MORE IMPORTANT it makes me VERY NERVOUS SKEPTICAL AND DISTRUSTFUL when i see government officials inserting clauses to make their actions and decisions ABOVE THE LAW, not subject to judicial review by SCOTUIS and allowing them to not be held responsible for their actions or decisions when acting in an official capacity, further inserting clauses allowing and authorizing financial institutions to raid American Citizens brokerage accounts without their consent knowledge or authorization does little to instill confidence in me that these charlatans have OUR best interests at heart, ............I believe they have Wall Streets and the banking and mortgage industries best interests at heart but not mine or ordinary Americans best interests.


    LASTLY I am so sick and tired of these clowns saying their solution is the ONLY option and to not give them EVERYTHING they WANT immediately with no questions asked will result in a new GREAT Depression is more fear mongering BS...........I ask this question of EVERYONE on this blog...........Havent we had ENOUGH of giving the foxes the keys to the chicken coup and EVERYTHING they ask for out of fear...........havent we LEARNED we NEVER MAKE GOOD SMART DECISIONS WHEN WE ARE RULED BY FEAR......we did that after 9/11 and look how that turned out?

    In Regards to Paulson;s and Bernanke's assertion that their plan is the ONLY OPTION I say BS................During the Great Depression FDR proposed a baning Holiday where the banks closed for a week or so Every bank had their assets reviewed and the insolvent ones were closed and the solvent ones were given aid and assistance to operate and continue to loan THAT WAY WE WERE NOT THROWING AWAY GOOD MONEY DOWN THE DRAIN propping up companies that were only doomed to fail later............we have limited resources and money it is reckless, wasteful and plain stupid to try to prop iiup assets that are doomed to inevitabbly fail later and possibly suck more capital out of tax payers propping them up before they do fail....................I've listen to the repug free market idiots like Kudlow babble for over a decade on how Japan wasted valuable resources and prolonged their recent Depression by propping up Zombie Banks that deserved to fail for 10 years with infusions of money now they want to do the same here.


    FDR is 100 times smarter than Bernanke or Paulson.........those two cronnies arent fit to shine his shoes...........to say there is NO other option after FDR clearly showed us a better option particularly after inserting clauses to make themselves and their decisions and actions unconstitutionaqly ABOVE THE LAW and to allow them to use our assets/ and in many cases life savings for their own self interest without our knowledge, consent or authorization............shows WITHOUT A DOUBT these men are not to be trusted...........these guys are career business men/salesmen of course their saying all the right buzz words and jargon like accountability and punishment answer me this how much do you think a man truly BELIEVES in accountablity when he slips caluses in in the dead of night insuring he can NEVER be held accountable for his OWN actions or decisions..........kind of reminds you of McSame saying he is for regulation and oversite when his WHOLE LIFE he has championed deregulation in fact he supported the VERY DEREGULATION that caused this current mess in the first place

    ReplyDelete
  26. Another thing that NEEDS to be said people on this blog keep saying we NEED to make sure banks are lending again.............what I think MANY fail to realize is that its a two way street in order for banks to lend people NEED to WANT to borrow and they wont borrow if they are in too much debt, are fearful of losing their jobs or dont have jobs............Japan PROVED this interest rates fell to ZERO..........they were essentially giving away money free with NO capital costs charging interswt and NO ONE borrowed money.


    ANY recovery plan needs to help aqnd put money in the pockets of regular Americans and help to cut their debts and feel more secure about their jobs or it is DOOMED to failure.

    Dont get me wrong some of the institutions needed to be saved and given proper capital to loan...........but certainly not all............like I said we NEED to do what FDR did and LEARN which ones can and should be saved and given aid and which ones should be allowed to fail and then help consumers and homeowners to lower their debt and feel more confident...............this idea of writing a blank check to Wall Street with no strings with out considering all our options is INSANITY.............haventy we learned from giving in to fear and giving the greedy criminal repugs EVERYTHING they ask for in kneejerk ignorant fashion?

    ReplyDelete
  27. Just giving a TRILLION Dollars to Wall Street without asking any questions or doing ANY reseaerch will ONLY further the greedy policies of Bush/McHoover and help them to use inflation to rob from the working class and poor and give it to the wealthy elite.

    ReplyDelete
  28. We need calm reasoned thought no quick knee jerk reactions out of fear.

    ReplyDelete
  29. Again i'm not saying we SHOULDNT be bailing out MANY of these institutions..............i'm just saying NOT ALL should be bailed out and we need to do it in a smart way, not a desperate knee jerk action.

    ReplyDelete
  30. Bart said "The Democrats don't want the economy to turn around because it would remove a voting issue in 2 months. They want to weather the storm so that on election day the economy is in the tank, so people will vote against the incumbents."


    I'm not sure about that. I think it's much more likely that they want the measure to pass WITH the provisions they put in of helping mortgages and wiping out CEO bonuses. Then they can say to voters "Look what we did."

    ReplyDelete
  31. The truth is this crisis is much ado about nothing. It shouldn't have happened, but too many people decrying the mortgage defaults, which were up, but not drastically, from previous years, due to the new ARM loan programs.

    Its true the ARM loan programs introduced by Cheney and Phil Graham and others were the catalyst, mostly due to mismanagement and exploitation of the "new programs", but lets get it straight. They weren't all bad.

    In fact, loan defaults weren't up that much more than we expected from previous years.

    We KNEW the defaults would be higher with these new programs which made home buying an option to more Americans. We KNEW this would happen because we were giving loans to people with lesser credit scores.

    We relaxed lending standards so naturally the percentage of mortgages resulting in default would climb.

    Duh.

    The problem here I think is mostly hype. And I hate to say it, but a lot of democrats in congress were doing the hyping. They scared foreign investors with talk of skyrocketing defaults, when in fact, defaults only increased in line with the relaxed credit standards.

    Higher rates were supposed to offset these defaults so we need to figure out where that money went and thats where you'll find the mismanagement.

    But as I said above, we KNEW this would happen. No one doubted when we relaxed lending standards that defaults would climb. And they did. But they didn't "SOAR" like people are saying. They rose in direct relation to the amount we relaxed standards for lending. And the offset was supposed to be the interest on the ARM loans. That was supposed to cover it.

    And I'm guessing it did.

    So figuring out where the money went on the increases is important.

    But making sure that these loans are not devalued further is also important. In fact its critical.

    ReplyDelete
  32. Mike said...

    THAT WAY WE WERE NOT THROWING AWAY GOOD MONEY DOWN THE DRAIN propping up companies that were only doomed to fail later............


    We're not. Thats the point. The hype has devalued these mortgage securities much more than the default rate. The default rate is not that high. In fact, 80 percent of these mortgages in these securities no one wants, are GOOD!

    Thats the dirty little secret some democrats in congress doesn't want you to know. These notes are GOOD. And half of the bad ones could be good with just a few adjustments. People are paying their mortgages, and the bailout is only backing something that foriegn investors are scared away from because of a lot of hype coming out of Washington about mortgage default rates.

    ReplyDelete
  33. In fact its over 80 percent. Defaults increased but we knew they'd increase. Depending on whose figures you're looking at, mortgage defaults are still well under 10 percent nationwide, and that number is inflated due to several western and midwestern states where properties mostly owned by out of state investors have gone into default disproportionately.

    The fact is we're much more stable than people think, but certain democrats and republicans have been blowing it out of proportion.

    We can argue about whether or not the dems are doing it to win in November or not but the fact is theres a lot more hype out there than loss driving this recession.

    ReplyDelete
  34. Foreign investors got scared by all of the default talk coming out of Washington. Talks of skyrocketing defaults scared foreign securities investors in turn devaluing securities backed by US mortgages.

    This snowballed into the current situation where the government will have to back those securties themselves which is what this bailout will do.

    But, that in turn will cause the lending markets to open up again, and the housing market will take off again, which will prop up the economy.

    You're wrong about people not wanting to borrow money Mike. In a bad economy people want to borrow it more than ever, because they need it more than ever. And in the housing market there are many great deals out that are going untouched because financing is frozen and even people with good credit can't get notes.

    This bailout can work like flipping a switch and literally turning the machine back on. And stalling on it is hurting the economy more, causing the markets to tumble once more.

    When they announced the bailout idea last the markets skyrocketed.

    Then, everyone on the left and some on the right, started complaining about it. Denouncing it as bailing out fat cats.

    Well, its much more than that. Its bailing out us all. And these delays are doing nothing but making matters worse.

    The market told us last week that if the fed would back the securities then it would respond favorably.

    And we in turn, we who have been suffering under a falling stock market and economy, said "naaaahhhh, we'd rather go bankrupt".

    Now, hopefully, more people are starting to see that a bailout is not an unAmerican principle. We did it in 1932. We did it in 1989 with the establishment of the RTC. And it will probably work this time.

    If we let it.

    ReplyDelete
  35. Mike said...

    Just giving a TRILLION Dollars to Wall Street without asking any questions or doing ANY reseaerch will ONLY further the greedy policies of Bush/McHoover and help them to use inflation to rob from the working class and poor and give it to the wealthy elite


    Thats not what they're doing though. This is backing investor securities that are good solid investments and we can include legislation down the road.

    Its not like this is the last bill Congress is ever going to write.

    This money is not being "thrown away" or "given to rich elites".

    Thats just hype Mike. Hype the dems (and republicans who don't want the minorites owning homes) have been selling you trying to get you to pressure your congressional leaders to stall the bill.

    This money is ours, and will remain ours, and the fact is, we stand to EARN money on it if its handled right.

    Its a good plan.

    It was a good plan in 1932.

    It was a good plan in 1989.

    And its a good plan now.

    In fact its the only plan we got.

    ReplyDelete
  36. Now that being said I'm all for removing the oversight restrictions. But beyond the dems are trying to stall the bill with piggybacks and add ons and we need to get it passed now and get the economy moving forward before more damage is done.

    The dems want 60 to 90 days to review and "hammer out" a plan.

    A timeframe that would make no plan forthcoming until AFTER the Election.

    You don't need to be a rocket scientist to put it together.

    The Dems want to wait until AFTER the Elections this November, before doing anything to get the economy going.

    ReplyDelete
  37. Its ok for us to disagree Mike.

    :D

    It means we're still thinking.

    ReplyDelete
  38. BARTLEBEE said...
    Mike said...

    Just giving a TRILLION Dollars to Wall Street without asking any questions or doing ANY reseaerch will ONLY further the greedy policies of Bush/McHoover and help them to use inflation to rob from the working class and poor and give it to the wealthy elite


    Thats not what they're doing though. This is backing investor securities that are good solid investments and we can include legislation down the road.

    Its not like this is the last bill Congress is ever going to write.

    This money is not being "thrown away" or "given to rich elites".

    Thats just hype Mike. Hype the dems (and republicans who don't want the minorites owning homes) have been selling you trying to get you to pressure your congressional leaders to stall the bill.

    This money is ours, and will remain ours, and the fact is, we stand to EARN money on it if its handled right.

    Its a good plan.

    It was a good plan in 1932.

    It was a good plan in 1989.

    And its a good plan now.

    In fact its the only plan we got."


    Like I CLEARLY stated BEFORE its NOT the ONLY plan we got...........the Plan FDR utilized during the Depression is FAR better..........enact a Bank holiday Close the banks for a week, and stop their stocks from trading and go through their assets and remove the bad ones and make sure the good banks are soundly capitalized to lend money at reasonable rates...............if as you say over 80% of their assets are good then WHY do we NEED to BLINDLY throw almost a trillion dollar blank check to them...............Why do we have to make Paulson ABOVE the Law, and not subject to the Constitution or Supreme Court............and why did he sneak a criminal clause into the bill in the dead of night authorizing and legalizing the Wall Street firms to use YOUR assets to serve THEIR INTERESTS without your knowledge consent or authorization.

    Sorry but the plan I outlined would be both faster and a hell of a lot cheaper and not authorize anything that is unconstitutional or criminal................we NEED TO get this Done quick but I would trust someone like Paul Volker a HELL of a lot more than twoof the Wall street slicksters that got us into this mess.

    ReplyDelete
  39. I just dont see WHY you or Lydia would be opposed to a plan that appears to be both faster, would waste far lesstax payer money and would have MORE integrity.

    Like I said earlier I dont have ANY confidence in the stock market if these criminal enterprises have carte blanche to legally use my life savings to serve THEIR interests as they please without my knowledge, consent, or authorization.........only a fool would be comfortable with that.............your a business owner, answer me THIS would YOU be comfortable if the government tried to pass a law authorizing and legalizing them to use your business, its assets or your home's equity as they please to serve THEIR interests and help THEM stay solvent........answer me that one.


    Because I dont and i'm liquidating any non retirement stock accounts and any non essential bank account and getting the money into either hard assets or out of this country.


    Again your a business owner...........if people dont have MONEY business's suffer just like everyone elae THATS what happened during the Great Depression............you cant JUST bail out wall Street and the Banks and expect people to borrow...........if a bank is adaquately capitalized and a person with good credit who is not a risk asks for credit they will be given money.........this is a CORPORATE credit crisis more than a Consumer one.............the banks DONT want to loan to the other banks because they are not sure their assets are sound enough to stay solvent...........if we insure the banks with sound assets are solvent and adaquately capitalized we will come out of this ok.

    it is totally wrong to say that banks are witholding credit from consumers............I just took out a $15000 line of credit at 4% ............so I dont believe there is no credit available to consumers this is a corporate credit crisis.

    ReplyDelete
  40. Mike said...

    the Depression is FAR better..........enact a Bank holiday Close the banks for a week, and stop their stocks from trading and go through their assets and remove the bad ones and make sure the good banks are soundly capitalized to lend money at reasonable rates...............

    Mike, this isn't the 1930s. Our banking system is much different and what you're describing would cost more just to do than we've lost already.

    Its not something we could do.

    ReplyDelete
  41. Mike said...

    Why do we have to make Paulson ABOVE the Law,


    We don't. They can take that out and pass it.

    ReplyDelete
  42. I also agree with the democrats idea on a moratorium on foreclosures until we're out of the woods. That will likewise prop up the economy by further valuing these securities by decreasing the default rate.

    ReplyDelete
  43. By the way Mike, with regards to your shutdown plan, thats something you do AFTER a collapse.

    Not prior to one.

    Doing it prior to one will ensure a collapse.

    ReplyDelete
  44. Mike said..

    one.............the banks DONT want to loan to the other banks because they are not sure their assets are sound enough to stay solvent...........if we insure the banks with sound assets are solvent and adaquately capitalized we will come out of this ok.


    Thats right Mike.

    But lets be clear here. The "banks" who don't want to loan are foriegn banks, and the banks who aren't getting the loans are US banks. Our security collateral is our mortgage securities and those have been devalued by a lot of fearmongering about rising default rates.


    And the way to make sure those assets are solid is to back the our devalued mortgage securities which is what this bail out will do.

    ReplyDelete
  45. Mike said..

    Because I dont and i'm liquidating any non retirement stock accounts and any non essential bank account and getting the money into either hard assets or out of this country.


    And its that mentality that precepitating this crisis. That fear mongering "get your money out" and "buy gold" talk is what further drives down the market.

    Look, the money's there. All that talk for the last 4 weeks by the MSM about "WORTHLESS NOTES" is BULLSHIT.

    Those notes are not worthless. They've been devalued slightly, but they are not worthless. We have a trillion dollars worth of GOOD mortgages backing those securities but all this talk of them being bad is why foriegn investors don't want them.

    I'm keeping my money in the bank where it belongs, right here in the USA where it will do some good.

    ReplyDelete
  46. BARTLEBEE said...
    By the way Mike, with regards to your shutdown plan, thats something you do AFTER a collapse.

    Not prior to one.

    Doing it prior to one will ensure a collapse."


    Possibly, it very well might create some concern...........but once those banks WERE open and people were assured they were finanially sound and adaquayely capitalized that could ease their concerns.................I agree with what you are saying that most of the loans possibly 80% or more are good and that something NEEDS to be done quick to prevent a run on the banks and an implosion of many of our financial institutions..........i'm just not sure giving a blank check with no oversite and reasonably thought out alterations is a good idea either.

    I'm looking at the big picture here and giving a TRILLION dollars without being fairly sure it will work will harm the middle class and poor substantially due to depreciated dollars and rampant inflation............and if a component to help homeowners and those suffering from excessive debt is not included then i think it could do more harm than good.

    If the object is to get banks lending and people borrowing again and we are willing to risk the harmful side effect of strong inflation that will harm the working class and rob them of their purchasing power and savings.............then we had better be damn sure its going to work and in order to have a chance of working it needs to coontain both components.

    restoring the banks and wall Street brokerages to solvency and propping up the stock market will do little to help peoples standard of living or the economy if after adjusting for inflation the propped up $11,000 Dow is worth the equivalent of a $5000 Dow in real world purchasing power.................its a truly upside down world if the ONLY thought is to reward the con men, the wealthy and the debtors and punish the savers and working class, and those on fixed income...........we need to think if the cure could be worse than the disease?

    ReplyDelete
  47. Mike said...

    Possibly, it very well might
    create some concern


    Concern?

    :|

    What are you kidding me?

    Mike, shutting down the market and the banks is what they do to stop a market free fall.

    Doing it prior to a market free fall would ensure one.

    ReplyDelete
  48. I'll ask again because its a legitimate question if these clowns are SO POSITIVE these assets are good and their plan will work WHY pass an insanely criminal clause authorizing and legalizing the Wall street Brokerages to use MY LIFE SAVINGS for THEIR interests WITHOUT my consent, knowledge, or authorization...............I guess i'm just silly like that not wanting some dishonest criminal syndicate to be able to do as they please with my life savings without my knowledge authorization and consent.............maybe you would feel comfortable with them having that kind of authority over the bulk of YOUR assets..............but I CLEARLY DO NOT..........thats just how I roll.

    ReplyDelete
  49. Mike said...

    If the object is to get banks lending and people borrowing again and we are willing to risk the harmful side effect of strong inflation that will harm the working class and rob them of their purchasing power and savings.............then we had better be damn sure its going to work

    Inflation? Have you looked at the price of a gallon of milk lately? Or a new set of tires?

    Everything costs more right now because of the price of fuel. Fuel is up because of fear mongering too. Inflation is the least of Americans worries right now.

    People pay what they have to pay for something as we see with the gas prices more than doubling.

    What will happen IF they do it right, is the market will open up, and lenders will lend IF they back off the legislative rhetoric and investigations, etc.

    They need to ENCOURAGE the mortgage lenders to lend. Thats all they have to do to get us out of the woods. It won't solve all the problems but it will turn the economy around.

    Right now there are MILLIONS and MILLIONS of people related to the construction and real estate industry out of work. Everyone from the mortgage underwriter to the architect to the girl at Home Depot who stocks the shelf, has lost jobs over this.

    What hurts these people more.

    Paying 50 cents more for a gallon of milk or not having a job?

    ReplyDelete
  50. And the fact that they SNUCK that clause in there and not a peep from the MSM on that tells me they sure as shit didnt have MY best interest in mind when they tried to sneak it in there...........then Paulson asks for a get out of jail free card so his actions and decisions cant be reviewed after pulling a stunt like that who would trust this guy...............what they are doing isnt socoalism its one step closer to fascism and I think I have a right to be skeptical if they are using MY money and putting MY life savings at risk.

    ReplyDelete
  51. I'd like to hear what some people I trust say about this plan like Paul Volker or Warren Bufffet...................Peter Schiff is not too keen on it and Schiff is a smart smart man.

    ReplyDelete
  52. Mike said...

    I'll ask again because its a legitimate question if these clowns are SO POSITIVE these assets are good and their plan will work WHY pass an insanely criminal clause authorizing and legalizing the Wall street Brokerages to use MY LIFE SAVINGS for THEIR interests WITHOUT my consent,


    Its not those clowns Mike. The figures show the assets are good.

    Prime default rates increased by less than a percent a quarter in most areas, and a few areas plus the ARM loan figures drove up the overall rates, but they did not go up out of control.

    Here, think of it like this.

    Lets say you want to prove to the doctor that I have high blood pressure. So, you have me run around the block, then have the doctor come in and examine me, never informing the doctor I just ran around the block.

    So, he measures my blood pressure, and declares it high.

    He declared it high based on data that did not include the fact that I had just run around the block.

    So too, when the democrats and other naysayers start decrying "the mortgage default rate is climbing", but fail to include the fact that those figures include the new higher risk ARM loan programs and other high risk plans, investors have only a small part of the puzzle.

    They don't focus on the fact that the increase was to be expected. They instead see it as a bad trend, and pull their funds.

    This in turn causes a snowball effect, as more investors pull out, the more the securites are devalued.

    What the democrats and others are doing right now is akin to yelling "fire" in a crowded theatre.

    If the fires so small that people have to be told about it, then chances are the act of shouting fire is likely to incur more injuries than the fire itself.

    ReplyDelete
  53. Mike said..

    maybe you would feel comfortable with them having that kind of authority over the bulk of YOUR assets..............but I CLEARLY DO NOT..........thats just how I roll.


    No they need to take that out.

    ReplyDelete
  54. As for Paulsen, I'm not so sold on him as Lydia seems to be. She must have found out he's a Christian Scientist, lol.

    Seriously he didn't see this coming, and he's part of the reason we're here, so trusting him is of course not a wise idea.

    All the dems have to do is take out a couple of clauses and submit it for signing.

    Those clauses you brought up are al losing battles so the republicans won't even put up a fight.

    Just clean it up a little and get it signed.

    ReplyDelete
  55. Your LAST 3 posts I am in agreement with essentially...................look to put it simply bundling these mortgages and selling them all over the world was a stupid idea we NEED to unbundle them and get out the crap that is in or will default..........so they KNOW the rest of the assets are sound NEXT they NEED to allow peole with sound credit to refi at low interest rates around 4% so people will have more money in their pockets to spend and so inflation will lift the value of their homes well above what they are paying in interest and prices start appreciating again.


    I'm not against this plan i just dont like or trust Paulson or Bernanke and want someone smarter and more trustworthy than those two to show confidence in it.

    I dont want things to implode and KNOW we need to act swiftly and decisively I just dont want us to recklessly concede out of fear to the Wall street special interests..............i've seen us make mistakes acting out of fear too often in the last 8 years.

    ReplyDelete
  56. This ISNT a partisan issue.............I dislike Pelosi and Reed almost as much as Paulson and Bernanke...............but I have to admit I cant fault Pelosi for not wanting to hand Paulson a blank check..............now if she is playing politics and willing to let the country go to hell and the economy implode for political gain and that may be the case then she is dispicable as well.

    I happen to think its more what MCH is saying and she is trying to push her agenda through but that doesnt neccessarily make what you say untrue.

    We need to move fast but not react recklessly in a kneejerk fasion out of fear...............we need to take the time to craft a reasoned well thought out response that is best able to achieve our objectives and is constitutional and fair and taking the time to have the best plan is the wisest course of action we nEED to ask the smart people like Buffet, Volker, Schiff and Soros what we should do.

    ReplyDelete
  57. Mike.

    A bail out is not a new idea. It was done in 32. It was done in 89. And both times it worked well enough to pull us out and get things rolling again.

    The great depression lasted as long as it did because the govt refused to bail out the banks for 4 years. It wasn't until 1932 when Hoover established the Reconstruction Finance Corporation to bail out failing banks that things began to improve.

    You spoke of FDRs Bank Holiday.

    Well when FDR took over a in 33 and declared his "Bank Holiday" it was to establish broader powers for the fed to bail out failing banks because he saw the effect Hoovers RFC bail outs had and wanted to build on that success.

    Hoover had his "bank holiday", but he used it to give even broader powers to the government to bail out failing banks.

    This paved the way for the Glass-Steagall Act establishing the Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation which put global faith back into the US markets and stabilized the economy.

    This is a time proven method and the only reason people are against it is a lot of partisan rhetoric coming from the democrats and some republicans in congress about "bailing out the fat cats". We need to get past the partisanship here and fix this now before it really does get bad.

    ReplyDelete
  58. If we don't bail out the banks, ... OUR banks, then we're setting ourselves up for another "Great Depression".

    And that my friend is something we don't want to see.

    Not with THIS many people in our country.

    ReplyDelete
  59. Mike said...

    We need to move fast but not react recklessly in a kneejerk fasion out of fear...............we need to take the time to craft a reasoned well thought out

    Mike, sometimes in life you have to jerk your knee.

    This is one of those times.

    We don't have time here. Every day we wait fortunes are being lost and real wealth is pouring down the drain. The dollar is falling and the banks are starting to fail.

    We do need a "knee-jerk" reaction and we need it now.

    We can stop this slide if we act now, before more banks fail. Banks failing is a ripple effect and it will cascade out of control if we don't stop it now.

    Everything you're saying is the politically correct reasonable sounding things, that just don't apply to this situtation.

    Its sink or swim, or as Alec Balwdin said in Glen Garry Glen Ross, "its f$%k or walk".

    We have to act now, because each time a bank fails another one takes on the slack, and its a dominio effect.

    If you want a great depression, keep screaming foul, and demanding oversight and investigations, and arrests, and keep endorsing the collapse of banks, which you are doing when you refuse to bail them out.

    ReplyDelete
  60. If you want a bright future however, I'd suggest bailing out the banks like we've successfully done the last two times this happened, and we'll see the markets and our economy stabilize.

    ReplyDelete
  61. Bart I think a very important exchange happened between Hank Paulson and Chuck Schumer, where Schumer asked Paulson why if the $700 billion was going to be spread over 24 months or so, why not authorize $150 billion to start the process, THEN with the time it allows make sure it works and make adjustments if needed,

    Paulson for some reason didn't like that approach.

    I wonder why, could it be because he KNOWS he ain't gonna be Treas Sec in four months and will have to sit on the sidelines then?

    ReplyDelete
  62. I wonder of Hank Paulson's "section 8" in his request to congress is related to the "section 8" Klinger always wanted on MASH?

    ReplyDelete
  63. Lol. Might be Clif.

    ReplyDelete
  64. By Tom Curry
    National affairs writer
    MSNBC
    updated 5:52 a.m. MT, Wed., Sept. 24, 2008

    "McGovern and other Democrats said the hurry-up approach taken by the administration reminded them all too eerily of the run-up to the Iraq War, with a vote forced right before the 2002 elections.

    “It’s the same as with the Iraq war, the administration saying ‘Trust us, give us everything we want,’” McGovern said.

    Sen. Bob Menendez, D-N.J., said, “I don’t want to be stampeded into wrong decisions, wrong for the country, wrong for the markets and, above all, wrong for the taxpayers. Some people got stampeded into voting for the war in Iraq; I’m not ready to do that in this case.”

    ReplyDelete
  65. Are we learning yet people.............this is the Bush thugs and cronnies using the politics of fear to scare people into giving them exactly what THEY WANT..................dont be fooled by these clowns AGAIN..............good decisions are NEVER made out of FEAR in a rush without clear knowledge and without reasonable questions being answered.

    Come on People after what these criminals pulled after 9/11 to invade Iraq the Alarm bells should be going off..................these clowns KNOW Obama is going to win if you have ANY doubt go look at Voltron's and Fascist Fan's sudden absence and disapearance from the scene.........the repugs KNOW they lost their hold on the reigns of power and they want to tie Obama's hands and limit his resources by putting in place a non reviewable sop to Wall Street administered by their cronnies that cant be overturned or reviewd and he cant be held accountable for his actions or decision.

    These Fascist REMEMBER the Great Depression and how Money was taken away from the rich on wall Street and given to the working class and they want to pre-emptively limit any money Obama can spend on energy independence, tax cuts for the working class, health care, infrastruicture etc.........by bankrupting us with his almost TRILLION Dollar bailout for Wall Street without a thing to help people on Main Street...................Arent you people getting wise to the politics of fear these clowns keep playing like a broken record to get what ever they want.

    Clif's right Paulson's reaction toSchumer's suggestion that they give him $150 billion IMMEDIATELY to start administering his prograsm with oversite in place is VERY TELLING!

    ReplyDelete
  66. I dont trust Paulson or Bernanke..............and Now that I heard Cheney was trying to sell this I trust it even less................you guys can do what you want but i'm pulling my money out of any non retirement stock accounts and non essential bank accounts and getting it into hard assets or overseas............I dont trust these criminals ONE BIT and NEITHER SHOULD YOU.

    ReplyDelete
  67. Bernanke's responses were also very telling today................these clowns are ALL Vipers, they're SNAKES..........after seeing their answers to questions that were reasonable, or that i either KNEW the answers to or had heard their PREVIOUS answers to only confirmed my innitial instinct not to trust these cronnies.............they want the plan THEY came up with on THEIR terms immediately with NO strings or oversite or they CLAIM there will be dire consequences just like GWB CLAIMED when he wanted to invade iraq.

    Guess What I dont react well to fear mongering cronnies............to be honest there's not much i fear, and I essentially NEVER panic or react out of desperation.............giving these clowns EVERYTHING they ask for with NO strings or oversite would be just as much of a mistake as giving GWB the power to invade Iraq based on lies was.

    You have to remember these are some of the same guys who caused this mess and profitted from it now your going to THEM for the solutions............WAKE UP...........maybe by that logic we should go to the Neo Cons and ask them how to end the war in Iraq and achieve world peace...........dont cry to me though when we are in WW3 as a result of that decision.

    Like I said before its like the gang banger straight F students trying to tell the National Honor Society how to get good grades and be law abiding model citizens.

    ReplyDelete
  68. NEW BLOG THREAD UP!!!!

    Thanks for reading and leaving comments on new thread.

    Barack is so cool and presidential! LOVE HIM!

    ReplyDelete
  69. Mike.

    I'll address your comments in the new thread.

    ReplyDelete