Wednesday, November 01, 2006

SAVE AMERICA: VOTE DEMOCRAT NOV. 7

**PROGRESSIVE DEMOCRATS OF LOS ANGELES** SEE BELOW ON EXACTLY HOW TO VOTE AS A DEMOCRAT

BUT FIRST THIS: REPUBLICAN COMPUTERIZED PHONE SCAM! Sinister allegations Republicans are tampering with votes in Democratic dsitricts.

Virginia election officials called in the FBI to investigate misleading phone calls in to Democratic voters (Republican callers deliberately sending Democrats to the wrong precint to vote) and a prosecutor in Ohio urged voters to beware of similar scams.

The Republicans have begun a nationwide program of making computerized phone calls (robocalls) pretending to be from local Democratic candidates in order to harass voters in their homes. The result? After repeated robocalls (supposedly from the Democratic candidate) the voter no longer wants to vote for the Democratic candidate who is harassing them. Of course, the voter doesn't know that it's really the Republican party pretending to be a Democrat.

These calls are Republican dirty tricks to steal another election with more of their corruption. Every single Republican candidate should be called on to condemn these tactics and demand they cease immediately. And when the Democrats take over Congress on Tuesday, we need to pass legislation stopping everyone from doing these kind of sleazy efforts to nullify the legitimate votes of Americans. Regardless of the party, there needs to be a sufficient penalty that this never happens again.

THIS is the GOP's "October Surprise": To crush Democratic momentum, to keep an iron-fisted grip on one-party power in government. These are people who will resort to anything in their desperation. Call your local news outlets and demand they report the story of these contemptable tactics to cheat democracy.
Please tell everyone you know about these issues!



MARCY WINOGRAD'S RECOMMENDATIONS are below. Marcy ran in the primary and is the mother/teacher/leader I most agree with on the issues. Below are her very specific voting recommendations for Los Angeles and the Westside. Marcy has really done her research.

Find your polling place: http://wwww.lavote.net
Volunteer for election protection: http://www.workthevotela.org
BALLOT ENDORSEMENTS FOR TUES., NOV. 7TH DEMOCRATIC PARTY CANDIDATES

Debra Bowen, Secretary of State
http://www.debrabowen.com/

Phil Angelides, Governor
http://www.angelides.com/

John Garamendi, Lt. Gov.
http://www.garamendi.org

Jerry Brown, Attorney General
http://www.jerrybrown.org/

Cruz Bustamante, Insurance Commissioner

Dear Friends,

Please be sure to vote (7 AM - 8 PM) tomorrow at your polling place (www.lavote.net) and to urge friends and family to vote, as well. If you encounter any election protection problems, you can call: 1-866-OUR-VOTE and/or contact: http://www.alternetvoterprotection.org/ -- also LA County ROV 1-800-851-2666 and Video the Vote at 213-48-2004.

Below are my personal ballot recommendations, though you'll note I have not taken a position on every ballot issue or candidate. Thanks again for your support during the primary, when together we drove home the importance of challenging the Bush war agenda.

Warm regards,

Marcy

P.S. Scroll to the very end for Election Night party details.

STATE MEASURES
* 1A: Transportation Funding Protection - Yes
* 1B: Highway Safety, Traffic Reduction, Air Quality, Port Security Bond Act of 2006 - Yes
* 1C: Housing and Emergency Shelter Trust Fund Act of 2006 - Yes
* 1D: Kindergarten-University Public Education Facilities Bond Act of 2006 - Yes
* 1E: Disaster Preparedness and Flood Prevention Bond Act of 2006 - Yes
* 83: Sex Offenders. Sexually Violent Predators. Punishment, Residence Restrictions and
Monitoring - No
* 84: Water Quality, Safety and Supply. Flood Control. Natural Resource Protection. Park
Improvements. Bonds - Yes
* 85: Waiting Period and Parental Notification Before Termination of Minor's Pregnancy -
No
* 86: Tax on Cigarettes. Initiative Constitutional Amendment and Statute - Yes
* 87: Alternative Energy. Research, Production, Incentives. Tax on California Oil - Yes
* 88: Education Funding. Real Property Parcel Tax - Yes
* 89: Political Campaigns. Public Financing. Corporate Tax Increase. Campaign
Contribution and Expenditure Limits - Yes
* 90: Government Acquisition, Regulation of Private Property - No
(scroll to end for more on propositions)
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

CITY OF LOS ANGELES MEASURES :


H - YES Affordable Housing Bond. (Bond Measure, One Billion Dollars )

This $1 Billion General Obligation Bond Issue will pay for housing and emergency
shelters for the homeless and others in need, and will fund the City's share of the costs of local projects constructed by the State under Proposition 1C (if it passes) : YES


J - YES Regional Fire Station Sites. (Charter Amendment and Ordinance)

This City Charter Amendment would permit the construction of Fire Stations on sites smaller than two acres, where the Fire Department determines it is warranted : YES

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
CONGRESS

26th: Cynthia Matthews (D) Matthews supports single-payer health care and an end to the US occupation of Iraq. Her opponent, David Dreier, is Cheney's bat boy in Congress.
28th: Byron De Lear (G)
Howard Berman continues to fund the war and support eternal occupation of Iraq. Byron De Lear offers a clear alternative -- peace, not unilateral war.
33rd: Diane Watson (D)
35th: Maxine Waters (D) (Go, Maxine!)

CANDIDATES FOR STATEWIDE OFFICE

Governor: Angelides (D) has had a progressive record as Treasurer,shifting state pension funds from the stock market to community reinvestment, and promoting shareholder activism against irresponsible corporations. He supports the return of the CA National Guard from Iraq, public campaign financing, and strong environmental protections. Schwarzenegger vetoed universal health care before he even saw it, pushed hard to prevent the unjust "3 Strikes" law from being voted out in 2004, spent a ton of state and county money on a special election, cut funding for social programs and is now acting as the good boy of CA. Don’t forget, He is an ACTOR!!!

Lieutenant Governor: Garamendi (D) has defended consumers' interests
several times as Insurance Commissioner. McClintock is an arch-conservative, anti-tax, anti-abortion, anti-environment, anti-union,pro-business ideologue. More than a token position, the Lieutenant Governor sits on several important state boards and casts tie-breaking votes in the state Senate, in addition to filling in when the Governor is not available.

Secretary of State: Bowen (D) is the rare state legislator who has given
large amounts of time and staff resources to supporting a grassroots movement - in this case, to protect our right to vote and to have our votes counted. Republican incumbent Bill McPherson (R) has been trying to push through the same faulty Republican-owned electronic voting machines that produced surprising Republican victories in other states.

Controller: Chiang (D) says that going after the tax breaks for oil producers and refineries would be one of his top goals. He is the only elected state official to have organized free tax assistance for the indigent.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

STATE SENATE

28th: Jenny Oropeza (D)

STATE ASSEMBLY

37th: Ferial Masry (D) (Endorsed by Progressive Democrats of Los Angeles)
39th: Alarcon (D) has made addressing poverty a focus of his work.
41st: Brownley (D) has great positions on the environment and health care.
43rd: Krekorian (D) has supported green building policies at the Burbank
school district.
44th: Portantino (D) has a good record of supporting open space and has
avoided the temptation of being a "centrist" even though he represented a
heavily Republican town. Costa (G) is also a good candidate with a clearly
progressive agenda.
47th: Bass (D) is a strong voice for progressive causes.
49th: As a Monterey Park councilmember Eng (D) has supported environmental
bills at the state level.

51st: Price (D) supported the campaign to stop Wal-Mart in Inglewood.
53rd: Ted Lieu supports single-payer universal health care and has appealed to Progressive Democrats of Los Angeles to work together on progressive legislation. Peter Thottam, backed by the Greens and ICUJP, says he would challenge Lieu's support of the military industrial complex in Torrance and El Segundo.

56th: Mendoza (D) was endorsed by labor and environmental groups in the
primary.
57th: Hernandez (D) was endorsed by labor and environmental groups in the
primary.
61st: Soto (D) has a good record as a state senator.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Paul Koretz for West Basin Water Board
(From Gary Shay of the Democratic Party ...)

For those of you in the West Side of LA County, wondering about the West Basin Water Board, I am supporting Assembly Member Paul Koretz as is the California and Los Angeles County Democratic Party.

The West Basin District has been plagued with a culture of corruption and mismanagement including paying for fancy trips and teeth whitening for a Board Member.

Life long active Democrat, Assembly member Paul Koretz, is running for the West Basin Board in Division 4, which includes all of El Segundo, Culver City, Malibu and West Hollywood, as well as several other areas. I am proud to support Assembly member Koretz because I know that his many years of environmental activism as well as his 18 years of service as a Council member and Assembly member will bring a new dimension to the Water Board.

Two of Assembly member Koretz's top priorities will be to stop wasting taxpayer dollars on lawyers for ventures into redistricting and making sure the District’s large reserves (over 80 million dollars) are in strong, safe investments.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

From a friend in the progressive community ...


JUDICIAL - SUPREME COURT JUSTICE

YES Joyce L. Kennard
NO Carol A. Corrigan (arch conservative appointed by Schwarzenegger)


JUDICIAL - COURT OF APPEAL JUSTICE
(Counties: Los Angeles, San Luis Obispo, Santa Barbara, Ventura)

YES Robert M. Mallano
? Frances Rothschild
NO Roger W. Boren
NO Victoria M. Chavez
NO Patti S. Kitching
NO Richard D. Aldrich
NO Norman L. Epstein
NO Thomas L. Willhite
? Nora M. Manella
NO Steven Suzukawa
NO Richard M. Mosk
NO Sandy R. Kriegler
YES Arthur Gilbert
YES Dennis M. Perluss
NO Fred Woods
YES Laurie D. Zelon
YES Candace D. Cooper
YES Madeleine Flier


JUDICIAL
JUDGE OF THE SUPERIOR COURT
(County: Los Angeles)

Office No. 8: Deborah L. Sanchez
Office No. 18: John C. Gutierrez
Office No. 102: George C. Montgomery [with reservations]
Office No. 104: [do not have a recommendation]
Office No. 144: Janis Levart Barquist
Also recommended are: Zacky and Bobbi Tillmon

STATE SENATOR

24th: Romero (D) has been a leading advocate for stopping the emphasis on
imprisoning youth.
28th: After surviving cancer, Oropeza (D) has become one of the strongest
advocates for environmental justice.


JUDICIAL - COURT OF APPEAL JUSTICE

YES Mallano - Progressive rulings.
? Rothschild - Could not determine.
NO Boren - Conservative, endorsed by Republicans.
NO Chavez - Endorsed by Republicans.
NO Kitching - Conservative, endorsed by Republicans.
NO Aldrich - Conservative, endorsed by Republicans.
NO Epstein - Conservative, endorsed by Republicans.
NO Willhite - Conservative, endorsed by Republicans.
? Manella - On balance liberal, but some cases give pause.
NO Suzukawa - Conservative, endorsed by Republicans.
NO Mosk - Consistently anti-Iranian rulings on Iran-U.S. Tribunal.
NO Kriegler - Conservative, endorsed by Republicans.
YES Gilbert - Gave clear thought to clemency for death penalty cases.
YES Perluss - Progressive rulings.
NO Woods - Wrote ruling restricting sex discrimination cases.
YES Zelon - Champion of improving legal rights of the indigent.
YES Cooper - Strong advocate of affirmative action.
YES Flier - Progressive rulings.


JUDICIAL: JUDGE OF THE SUPERIOR COURT

8: Sanchez's opponent is a death penalty prosecutor.
18: Gutierrez's opponent is an anti-gang prosecutor.
102: Montgomery is less objectionable since he gives support to due process.
104: [no position]
144: Barquist leans liberal; her opponent is an anti-gang prosecutor.

-------------------------------

Endorsements from the Santa Monica Democratic Club
Santa Monica City Council
Kevin McKeown Gleam Davis

Santa Monica Rent Control Board
Jennifer Kennedy Zelia Mollica Marilyn Korade/Wilson

Santa Monica College Board of Trustees
Nancy Greenstein David Finkel
Andrew Walzer Louise Jaffe

Santa Monica Malibu Unified School District
Oscar de la Torre Emily Bloomfield
Kelly McMahon Pye Barry Snell

Local Measures:
Measure BB (School Bond) YES
Measure U (Charter Amend - Remove City Dept Heads from Civil Service . . .) NO
Measure V (Clean Beaches/Ocean Parcel Tax) YES
Measure W (Charter Amend - Change Campaign Contribution Restrictions) NO
Measure Y (Muni Code - Make Marijuana Use Low Enforcement Priority) YES


PROPOSITIONS: (A friend sent this to me and I'm passing it on ...)

YES Prop 84 Authorizes $5.4 billion to fund projects relating to safe drinking water, water quality and supply, flood control, waterway and natural resource protection, water pollution and contamination control, state and local park improvements, public access to natural resources, and conservation efforts. (nearly 1 billion available for parks & water projects in LA County)
http://www.easyvoter.org/site/evguide/content.php?type=1&id=70

YES Prop 87: Alternative Energy

This is NOT a gas tax, and won't raise your gas prices. What it will do is make companies extracting oil out of California pay a similar amount of money as they do in states like Texas and Alaska -incredibly, California basically gives away our resources virtually free,unlike everywhere else - and invest that money in alternative energy. You know it has to be something real good if the oil companies are spending $100 MILLION (!) to defeat it. It would establish a $4 billion program to reduce oil and gasoline usage by 25%, with research and production incentives for alternative energy, alternative energy vehicles, energy efficient technologies, and for education and training. The proposition prohibits producers from passing the tax on to consumers. Program administered by California Energy Alternatives Program Authority.

YES Prop 89: Campaign Finance Reform

Prop 89 will help take back our elections from special interests and create a level playing field for candidates to compete.
Maine passed a universal health care plan thanks to grassroots candidates being able to challenge the insurance-funded incumbents. The money for the campaigns will come from a 0.2 percent corporate tax increase. This system has proven to loosen the death grip corporate lobbyists hold over government, though it won't make every politician honest! The public campaign funding will be received through the Fair Political Practices Commission, in amounts varying by elective office and type of election. The proposition also imposes new limits on campaign contributions to state-office candidates and campaign committees, and new restrictions on contributions and expenditures by lobbyists and corporations.

Proposition 90:
“Prop 90 is the single most dangerous threat that has ever been leveled at our
state's environment” Robert Redford.

If Prop 90 is enacted, environmental protection will grind to a halt, because we the taxpayers will be unable to afford the billions and billions in payouts.
And guess what? Paralyzing government is exactly what Prop 90 aims to do.

This cynical ploy is so insidious -- and yet potentially popular -- because it's masquerading as a law that will protect our homes and businesses from
government seizure under the power of eminent domain.

This measure being pushed by conservatives and developers would force taxpayers to pay some land owners to follow laws already on the books--or give those land owners a waiver to pollute or break other laws. For example, if a company decides they want to build a polluting factory on their property that’s not allowed by current zoning, the government would have to pay them for the forgone opportunity. It could cost state and local governments billions of dollars to maintain current protections. It is supported by the California Republican Party and the National Federation of Independent Businesses. Proposition 90 is opposed by a broad and diverse coalition including: the League of Women Voters, the Sierra Club, The Nature Conservancy, Natural Resources Defense Council, Defenders of Wildlife, dozens of other environmental groups but also Working Assets, California Labor Federation, California Professional Firefighters, the NAACP and the California Chamber of Commerce


YES Prop 1C- Housing and Emergency Shelter Trust Fund Act: Allow state government to sell $2.85 billion in bonds for: housing projects and related development in urban areas and near public transportation, assistance for renters, first-time and low-income homebuyers farm worker housing, homeless shelters and other programs. Bond financing is regressive and from working in this industry I know how much money goes to waste and never reaches its targeted destination. Never the less, I think I will vote for it and pray…
http://www.easyvoter.org/site/evguide/content.php?type=1&id=66

YES Prop 1D (with reservation)
Allows state government to sell $10.4 billion in bonds to build and upgrade education facilities:
• $7.3 billion for K-12 schools, most of which would require local matching funds
• $3.1 billion for community colleges and public universities
Funding formula is not favorable to districts that have the greatest need. Bond financing is regressive.
http://www.easyvoter.org/site/evguide/content.php?type=1&id=67



-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------



## ##

405 comments:

  1. Saving America from the damage of Bush, Cheney, Rove, Delay, Abramoff, Hastert, Dobson, Falwell, Robertson, is going to take MORE than one election. It is going to take a few.

    Elections where the Voters who placed their trust into charlatins like these , and refused to accept the proof of their faliures as they stacked up.

    Failures like the abortion they call the Iraq War.

    Hundreds of thousands if deaths for a fiasco and TOTAL chaos.

    Failures like the FEMA response to Katrina and the follow up.

    Failures like No Child Left Behind, Bush is tens of thiousands of children left already and he is still NOT fully funding it.

    Failures like the Medicare Part D money give away to big Pharma.

    The people who claimed to be compassionate conservatives turned out to be neither, but the modern day snake oil salesmen who would say anything to get a vote.

    But return to their preset game plan for giving tax dollars to big business and cutting taxes for the wealthy few.

    They cried to be strong on defense, and have gutted the core of the military, overextended the troops and underfunded the VA for those who fell in battle and NOW need for the government to STEP up and provide care.

    They instituted pay for play where they SOLD congress to the highest bidder, cutting the American peoplem out of the democratic process.

    Their vaulted vote getting strategy involves disenfranchising hundreds of thousands of voters they do not think woill vote for them, but claim to be FOR america and it's values.

    They laud for family values while hiding child predators and going to gay prostitutes for sex and drugs.

    They screamed to be the party of fiscal responsibility and ran up debts of historical proportions which will take MANY election cycles to come to grips with.

    Yes this election can be the begining of the return to the real American values of TRUTH, Responsibility and shared society, but if the republicans get their way it will NOT happen.

    ReplyDelete
  2. Col. Pat Lang's take on the repub neo-cons backpeddling as fast as they can.

    A Pitiful Sect

    Perle goes so far as to say that, if he had his time over, he would not have advocated an invasion of Iraq: "I think if I had been delphic, and had seen where we are today, and people had said, 'Should we go into Iraq?,' I think now I probably would have said, 'No, let's consider other strategies for dealing with the thing that concerns us most, which is Saddam supplying weapons of mass destruction to terrorists.' … I don't say that because I no longer believe that Saddam had the capability to produce weapons of mass destruction, or that he was not in contact with terrorists. I believe those two premises were both correct. Could we have managed that threat by means other than a direct military intervention? Well, maybe we could have."" Vanity Fair

    -------------------------------------------------------------------

    The men interviewed in this article were among those who made the case for war with Iraq, occupation of the country and revolution in the Middle East.

    Perle, as usual, is slippery and deceptive. He falsely implies here that he, and his chums, did not use every propaganda, information operations and rhetorical tool available to make the case that Iraq was a menace, a current menace, to the United States in both the field of WMD and as an active ally of the international jihadis.

    Paul Wolfowitz, Douglas Feith, William Luti, Scooter Libby, Harold Rhode and the Wurmsers are all missing from among the interviewees here but should not be forgotten in the "reckoning." They all played major roles in the catastrophes that have befallen us.

    Revolutions typically devour their own. Danton and Robespierre played a high price for "riding the tiger" in the french Revolution. The neocon "revolution" has failed miserably when confronted by reality on the ground in Iraq. The failed neocon revolution has cost us dearly in death, mutilation, distorted lives, treasure and honor.

    If the Democrats win control of the House they will have a solemn duty to see that these wretches and their foreign allies are dealt with appropriately and that their fantasist political sect is relegated to the obscurity that it deserves.

    Wake up Republicans! These are people who have tricked and abused you.

    Pat Lang

    Full Vanity Fair Article

    ReplyDelete
  3. I think the problem with Mans relation to God is pretty basic.

    On one hand, we have the religious folk, who will tell anyone willing to listen exactly what God is, what he does, and what he wants everyone else to do.

    On the other hand we have atheists, who are committed to proving that God doesn't exist, even though that is in and of itself, and impossiblity.

    Maybe what we all need is a "new" church. A new religion.

    A religion that doesn't claim to have any answers, but that does have some really good questions.

    ReplyDelete
  4. How about the people who say they have few answers, but some real good questions to think about?

    And then allow their religion to evolve from their own answers?

    i know, I know, you do not get too many TV donations that way, and the sheeple do not get easy sound bite answers, but it does work.

    ReplyDelete
  5. Military Times Throws Down the Gauntlet: Rumsfeld Must Go

    By Larry Johnson

    [Note from Larry Johnson: My friend and colleague, Brent Budowsky, a contributing editor to the Fighting Dems, was first out of the gate reacting to the news that the Military Times newspapers are calling for Rumsfeld to go. Here is his piece.]

    The Military Times speaks truth to power and to America with its call for Rumsfeld to go. This is the beginning of the end for the Republican policy of failure, arrogance, corruption, dishonesty and war partisanship.

    On Monday Marine Corps Times, Army Times, Navy Times, and Air Force Times are taking the extraordinary and courageous step of calling for Rumsfeld to go.

    The voice of commanders, the troops and their families will speak. This madness must end. This policy must change. Rumsfeld must go. Enough is enough.

    section break
    The pre-election timing of this statement is extraordinary; that the voice of our military and families would speak so powerfully for change, in the hours before the nation votes, is a breathtaking and decisive statement of how strongly they feel that this madness must end.

    To save any semblance of rationality for American policy in Iraq new leaders, a Democratic Congress and the resignation of Secretary Rumsfeld are urgently needed.

    This past week something extraordinariny and ominous happened. An American soldier was kidnapped. Going all out to leave no one behind, our mlitary established checkpoints.

    What happened next? The government in Iraq under the control of pro-Iranian Shi'ite leaders, surrending to the will of murderous Shi'ite militia, ordered the checkpoint closed.

    This is the government that more than 2800 Americans have given their lives for. This is the government of rampant corruption. This is the government that has virtually no police force to speak in the fourth year of this war and whatever police force does exist is heavily infiltrated by even more of these murderous military.

    Meanwhile sectarian violence and bloodshed continue to rise in November and every day brings news of more carnage and corruption. And the Republican Congress now wants to cashier even the Republican Inspector General for Iraq Reconstruction, to protect those who have been stealing, pillaging, misusing, losing and corrupting more than $10 billion of our money.

    Now, in one of the most extraordinary and important moments in the history of this war, the Military Times newspapers are calling for the removal of Secretary of Defense Don Rumsfeld.

    Marine Corps Times, Army Times, Air Force Times and Navy Times are taking a principled and courageous stand sending a powerful pre-election message about what must be done.

    In fact, what I and others have been arguing for some time is that what the Military Times now publicly calls for, is what the commanders and most troops have believed for some time.

    Lack of armor.

    Lack of protected vehicles.

    Lack of bandages and helmets.

    Lack of adequate pay for troops.

    Lack of respect for commanders from the President and his neo-conservatives, who are now cutting and running themselves by blaming each other for their shared value, is their modus operandi. The hallmarks of Republican leaders in Washington are arrogance, dishonesty and delusion.

    Corrupted Iraq Reconstruction.

    Crony deals, stolen money, wasted programs in which American troops give their lives and limbs for a government dominated by Iranian supported militia. While the blood of our troops is spilled multi-millionaire crooks, with ties to one party Republican government lard their bank accounts, and use our money to pay for their super bowl parties.

    As the Miltary Times editorial says, for years the sergeants and captains have reported back that their urgent efforts to train Iraqi troops were not succeeding, because those they trained were not loyal to the cause, and were in it for the money.

    As the Military Times editorial says, the Secretary of Defense is a disaster and it is time for him to go.

    As Vanity Fair reports, the pathetic theorists of neo-conservativism who helped build the public case to invade Iraq are now turning against the President, saying they would have opposed the war if they knew how he would mismanage it.

    Meanwhile the President parades around the country name calling Democrats, and the pro-Iranian government of Iraq stiffs American troops, while the Republican power barons in Washington stiff the Inspector General to protect the crooks who pay for their campaigns.

    This is like the end of one of those old Fred Astaire movies where everyone is on the stage as the curtain closes: Iraq mismanagement. The culture of corruption. The partisan president dishing his dirt. The Republican Congress trying to gut the Inspector General. The Republican candidates drenching the aiwaves with lying and smearing ads.

    It gets worse: the neoconservatives running for cover. The intelligence community saying the war creates more terrorists. Commanders warning of the descent to chaos. And while the carnage and corruption continue, the Vice President acts like Captain Queeg, claiming preposterously that he was always right, demanding that we stay the course with this catastrophic policy.

    Military Times, Marines Corps Times, Army Times, Air Force Times, Navy Times: they speak for the troops, they speak for the families, they speak for the commanders.

    It is the beginning of the end.

    It is time for this madness to end.

    ReplyDelete
  6. Military Times....

    hmmmm, Isn't that by the same people who publish USA Today?

    ReplyDelete
  7. Yea Voltron.

    They're all cowards and traitors.

    Now go back to sleep.

    ReplyDelete
  8. Damn, I'm glad I don't live in Cali anymore.

    Interesting to see though that Lydia is AGAINST monitoring and restricting the movements of violent sexual predators, FOR allowing minors to have abortions at will AND allowing the government to seize your property for just about any reason...

    I mean gee, when you're getting ready to expand Bel Aire and the peasants next door won't sell their house for some stupid reason like "They've lived their all their lives and raised their children there" and "have sentimental attachments" and all...

    And really shouldn't government institutions or government funded institutions have more control over children than their parents? I mean hell, they're all abusive anyway, and surely someone else should make all the decisions for the kids sake. But I do believe parents should take FINANCIAL responsibility at least until their 18...

    And then there's those wacky violent sexual predators... sheesh! EVERYBODY knows it's societies fault, and anyway their just out exercising their pursuit of happiness and liberty and all. But if they come in MY house the cops BETTER do something about it...

    Maybe ya'll should just elect Babs Striesand into office, after all, she probably knows better than anyone else how to fix these problems.

    ReplyDelete
  9. The real problem with all the neo-con revision that is going on at this point is not the fact that they were wrong. We always knew that.

    In fact tens of millions of people knew in 2003 before the war, the neo-cons just would not listen. The real problem is that they are trying to resurrect their reputations, for next time.

    Well if they really want to resurrect their reputations, I would suggest they start with all the DEAD. Try explaining how their asking forgiveness for their mistake is justified with all those humans who no longer walk among us. Then explain to the tens of thousands who still do, but horribly wounded, maimed and disfigured will carry their scars and nightmares for the rest of their lives. How do they expect to just say they had an intellectual brainfart, and expect to WALK away from the inferno on earth they created?

    It does give a small amount of satisfaction that they can admit they did not have it right, but with all the death and destruction they wrought with their arrogance and dishonesty, they need to DO much more than say they were mistaken to have trusted Bush, Cheney and Rumsfeld. After all their devious work behind the scene to fix the Intel and stifle the opposition enabled the very people they now decry for failing. They never saw the inept planning or delusional expectations in 2003? They never considered the Iraqi’s would not act on script, but might have other ideas once the balloon went up. They never considered what could happen if their plans went a little wrong let alone A LOT WRONG.

    They need to find some way to undo the damage they have done. To this country, it's military, people and budget. Undo the damage they have wrought in the Middle East, and its people. Undo the damage so many families in Iraq, Lebanon, and the USA will carry for the rest of their lives.

    The rest of humanity will move on after the war is over but to the families who lost a loved one the war is NEVER over. To most of us it will be a very bad memory of a time when a child pretending to be an adult was used by some very greedy and arrogant people to try and grab a nation for their benefit. But to those who will have to live with the loss of their loved ones it will become an empty hole which can NEVER get filled. Children with out a parent, wives and husbands left alone, parents who bury a child far too soon.

    No Mr. Perle, ET Al you should not get off as easy as you try with your revisionist history in Vanity Fair, crimes of the soul DEMAND penitence, and you all have a lot of penitence to do.

    ReplyDelete
  10. Anyways I'm really torn up over this Haggard thing.

    I used to really like Merle...

    I'll never be able to listen to his albums again.

    ReplyDelete
  11. Volt - that's pretty funny!!

    ReplyDelete
  12. Volt - that's pretty funny!!

    ReplyDelete
  13. So Volt, if the Bush Administration does a complete 180 and makes plans to pull out of Iraq will you still blindly support them like a good little cheerleader or will you be up in arms and oppose them on this?

    ReplyDelete
  14. Mike,

    Yeah I'd oppose it.

    I DO think we need a change of tactics, but a complete pullout would only worsen the situation.

    I think we need to follow the Japan model. Put in enough troops to actually CONTROL the country. Write the damn constitution FOR them. Impose it on them. Send in the missionaries to convert them, and SLOWLY transition the operation of the government only to like minded Iraqi's.

    ReplyDelete
  15. Damn Dolty you must have read Mao's little red book.

    ReplyDelete
  16. As I have OFTEN stated, I DON'T BLINDLY follow Bush.

    He's done MANY things I disagree with.

    I don't even like the way he STATES his terrorism policy. There are NO "radical" or "fundamental" Islamists.
    There are only those who are practicing, and those who aren't. -yet.

    The crusades have only "ended" on the Judaeo-Christian side. For Muslims they never stopped.

    And I know Worf will shed a few crocodile tears about how brutal the Christians were, and perhaps they were. But so were the muslims, and they started it.

    Where's Vlad when you need him?

    ReplyDelete
  17. No Cliffy, I read MacArthur's.

    ReplyDelete
  18. Volt would you still support a large prescence in Iraq if it meant a tax increase on the wealthy to pay for our large scale presence there and if it detracted from using our limited military and financial resourcers to secure our borders and ports?

    ReplyDelete
  19. Volt said "Where's Vlad when you need him?"

    He's in the White House, impaling the Constitution and Sucking the lifeblood out of freedom and democracy.

    ReplyDelete
  20. Mike,

    Depending on your definition of "wealthy" due to simple percentages,
    there aren't enough of them to support a large or long term occupation.

    Between fiscal responsibility, cutting waste and growing the economy, (that's what the tax cuts are doing) there's plenty of money.

    And I don't think securing our ports and borders would require much military presence. The fence, combinined with electronic monitoring and additional border patrol agents would be sufficient. I suppose if you wanted you could rotate returning national guard units along the border as well for additional protection.

    I thought the military on the border was something you guys were against though?

    ReplyDelete
  21. Actually Mikey, I'm sure Worf could enlighten you but Vlad was a first class muslim fighter.

    Read up on the "moors". And much of what 'ol Vlad is blamed for he learned during his capture by the moors.

    ReplyDelete
  22. You might also read up on the "Khazars".

    Even if you don't want to get into the politics it's an interesting read.

    ReplyDelete
  23. Dolty MacArthur would reject your asisine assumption that Iraq was ANYTHING like the Japanese, take the Hood off and stop channeling the KKK in your writings.

    He believed in Duty, not hiding out in ther national guard to avoid it.

    Honor, something the repugs are lacking of lately(like the last 10 years at least, and

    Country, which given the sorry state of thes one thanks to Bush DET AL he proly would not reconise.

    ReplyDelete
  24. Like YOUR asisine assuming your the LAST word on what is a good muslim, your as pathetic there as Rev Haggard was on Gays.

    ReplyDelete
  25. Dolt your just another BIGOT, plain and simple.

    ReplyDelete
  26. Well Volt, that border fence cost I believe 700 billion and is unfunded, those additional border patrol agents cost money as well, then we need to factor in the additional technology and man power to make our ports safer and more secure, kinda hard to come up with the money to do this when we have an 8-9 trillion deficit and have spent approximately 400 billion in Iraq "SO FAR" money doesnt grow on trees and you have to decide what is most important, i'm not saying we should pull out of Iraq overnight, but i've said from day one we need to clean up our own backyard and make our own country safer before we worry about cleaning up other countrys backyards and making them more secure, besides I think our presence there is serving to inflame the terrorists and make our country much less safe as a result.

    We need to lay the groundwork for a pullout and spend our money domestically making our own country safer and that doesnt mean dismantling the constitution.

    ReplyDelete
  27. Dolty if interest rates keep going up, the interest on the DEBT will eat up a hell of a lot of MONEY which will go to the China, Japan, Mexico, and the Opec states but we get nothing for those interest payments.

    It is paying interest bnecause Bush and the repugs in congress couldn't balance a budget, EVEN with a majority in both houses and the white house.

    But do not worry, these people will continue to loan us money even though the true value of the dollar falls, and they lose money each year doing so.

    There is NO chance they will stop buying US Treasuries because of the worsing situation of the US currency.

    And there is NO possibility of OPEC and Russia and Venezula switching for the EURO for the oil sales for their countries.

    ReplyDelete
  28. But continue to think we could even act worse than Hitler did in Europe, in the Arab States, with no Backlash from them or the rest of the world, and you will still be a little pathetic bigotted human hating the world for not playing by YOUR rules which do not work in any place but your deluded mind.

    You idiotic Ideas failed in WW@, failed this time in Iraq.

    ReplyDelete
  29. Clif, If calling evil "evil" is biggoted, then I am guilty as charged.

    ReplyDelete
  30. Really Clif, have you ever tried decaffinated? They make some that is just as full flavored as the original.

    The Imams tell us the very same things I'm telling you. I'm a bigot because I choose to believe them?

    Have you no eyes? Look at muslim expansionism throughout the centuries. Read the Quran. Listen to what they say. Look at what they do.

    Do you think it's simply a coincidence that most of the terrorists are college educated, intelligent men? It isn't the unwashed masses that are against us. It's the one's who know and understand what Islam means that are trying to kill us.

    The Mullahs and Imams tell us REPEATEDLY what they want. What they will do.

    I BELIEVE THEM.

    ReplyDelete
  31. Dolt the Bigot said;

    I think we need to follow the Japan model.

    Funny it hardly works when you never defeated the enemy in the first place but drove by them racing to keep a time table driven by politics NOT military necessity, some thing that Mac Arthur would have hung Rummy's balls off his corn cob puipe for suggesting.

    MacArthur did not attempt to set artificial timetables for military atttacks or their operations but allowed the enemy and conditions on the battle field to temper his plans not some IDIOT in Washington trying to set up his NEXT political campaign.

    Put in enough troops to actually CONTROL the country.


    400,000-500,000 gladd you finally admit Shinseki was right and Dumsfeld was wrong.


    Write the damn constitution FOR them.

    Bremer tried that son.


    Impose it on them.

    Bremer tried that also, too bad Dumsfeld idiot timetable and incompetent plan of attack, allowed so many fighters to escape that bremer ended up trying to finish the mission that Franks and Dumsfeld failed to finish.


    Send in the missionaries to convert them, and SLOWLY transition the operation of the government only to like minded Iraqi's.

    Spoken like a good member of the Knights of the KKK, only they or like minded idiots would assume they could even do this to 1,4 bikllion people.

    ReplyDelete
  32. Doltron the Idiot said...

    Really Clif, have you ever tried decaffinated? They make some that is just as full flavored as the original.

    don't drink coffee, never aquired a taste for rehydrogenated bugshit.

    ReplyDelete
  33. Dolty the Bigoted idiot said;

    The Imams tell us the very same things I'm telling you. I'm a bigot because I choose to believe them?

    No stupid you pick out a MINORITY opinion and scream it belongs to all of them.

    like all bigots do, you try to create a reality to justify you hatred.

    ReplyDelete
  34. Doltron the Idiot said...

    Clif, If calling evil "evil" is biggoted, then I am guilty as charged.

    The "evil" working night and day to destroy this country is much closer to home son, it resides in the Idiot in the White House, and Naval Observatory who want to destroy the constitution to create a unitary executive, which is another way of saying dicktater, you know like Hitler but on steriods.

    They want to be able to do as they please and to lock up those whom oppose their destruction of the constitution which is the only reason we USED to be the envy of the trest of the world, OUR real Freedoms, and a society where they people actually held some check on the government.

    You just goosestep along with them because you think they will create some of your hate filled bigotted wet dreams.

    ReplyDelete
  35. Dolty the bigotted Idiot said;

    Have you no eyes? Look at muslim expansionism throughout the centuries.

    Nothing like the European e3xpansion where they actually EXTERMINATED a whole continent of peoples, and ruled most of the world the last four centuries.

    Nothing like the gfact two European based ideologies became the cause for a "cold war" which forced the rest of the world to divide into two warring camps, sort of like the Idiot tried to with his your for us or again us.

    Nothing like a little revisionist history there son.

    ReplyDelete
  36. It's not really a "minority opinion" Clif. That "opinion" belongs to most if not all their leaders. And their followers will follow.

    Do you realize that THEIR hatred is programmed into them through the madrasas from the time they're at least 5 years old?

    They're taught evil from a very early age, and have it reinforced until it becomes second nature, automatic if you will.

    Their at the brink of controlling many countries in Europe now. Look at what's going on in the Netherlands. In France. Hell, in Canada even.

    Wether you choose to admit it or not, we are in a clash of civilizations and have been for quite some time. They are single minded and particularly brutal, and we must be as well if we are to repel them.

    ReplyDelete
  37. Get a clue son, Bush and his minions are trying the islamofascist sacre because the Nazi scare was defeated, and the red scare played out. they got little else to feed their campaign donors who make BILLIONS off the pentagon and Homeland security contracts.

    ReplyDelete
  38. Dolt is slipping into Limpman territory with this one:


    Their at the brink of controlling many countries in Europe now. Look at what's going on in the Netherlands. In France. Hell, in Canada even.


    Right and the Martians are comming.

    ReplyDelete
  39. Yes Clif I see your revisionist history.

    And just for your information, I have no hatred, only pity.

    Much like I have for the followers of Jim Jones followers, or the ones who went to meet up with the comet.

    ReplyDelete
  40. Dolty boy who wants to ignore the real history fo this country said;

    Wether you choose to admit it or not, we are in a clash of civilizations and have been for quite some time.


    Right son first with the Nazi's and Japanese, then wioth the communists, and now with the islamofascists, just we didn't have to tear up the constitution in the first two.

    They are single minded and particularly brutal, and we must be as well if we are to repel them.

    Just as the Storm troopers were supposed to be, and the Red Army was supposed to be, and the Vietcong were supposed to be, and the communist Chinese were supposed to be, I think I see a pattern here.

    ReplyDelete
  41. Son hatred seeths out of your suggestions we FORCEABLY change the religious prefernce of 1.4 billion people.

    Nothing like a little "convert or die" before the morning coffee eh olt?

    ReplyDelete
  42. How about the millions who were duped by the gay lying meth preacher.

    He spewed hatred for his inner self to millions.

    Sorta like you do for the Muslims.

    ReplyDelete
  43. Yeah Clif, it's all a big scare tactic. Just like in India, the Netherlands and France.

    Might keep your eye on the Netherlands though, that's gonna get real bad real soon.

    ReplyDelete
  44. Dolt the Idiot said;

    Yes Clif I see your revisionist history.

    Not me son, the Europeans were the ones setting the stage of world events for the last 4 centuries, not the people who lived and basically remained in their respective countries.

    It was the european Empires which spread arround this planet.

    Only the Spanish,French and British could claim the sun never set on their empires, with the british lasting the longest into the 20th century.

    ReplyDelete
  45. Clif, next to your postings whatever "hatred" seethes through MY suggestions is barely noticible.

    Hence my past comment about your "beam" problem. When you get that taken care of, I may let you take a look at my "mote".

    ReplyDelete
  46. Demographics of the Netherlands;

    * Dutch 80.8%
    * German 2.4%
    * Indonesian (Indo-European, Indo-Dutch, Moluccan) 2.4%
    * Turks 2.2%
    * Surinamese 2.0%
    * Moroccan 1.9%
    * Indian 1.5%
    * Antillean and Aruban 0.8%
    * other 6.0%


    yea son the muslims are a real threat being about 10% of the population, sort of the cries of the southern whites the last century.

    ReplyDelete
  47. Well now I know you're not talking about the muslims. They've never "lived and basically remained in their respective countries."

    Unless of course it's because a superior force kept them there.

    ReplyDelete
  48. Dolt I am not the one here suggesting to go to a foriegn country and Forceably convert the people because our illegal, invasion Failed.

    Check your beam.

    I am not for forceably converting anybody, your the only one here advocating it son.

    ReplyDelete
  49. Superior force since the European empires started 400 years ago.

    Last time I checked the Europeans claimed the right to draw the lines in the Muslim lands, the Muslims did not claim the right to redraw the map of Europe, post WW1 or post WW2.

    ReplyDelete
  50. Hate to break it to you son, but all the intrusion in the Middle east by France briton and the good ole USA since WW1 has caused a might bit of resentment, and WE are still at it.

    ReplyDelete
  51. We have spent a hell of a lot of manpower and expense trying to create governments in Iran, Iraq, and thru out the middle east just to get control of the oil.

    The coup which started the problems with Iran and the west had to do with the fact that the elected government of Iran would not play ball the way the US and Brition wanted them to do in 1953.

    but that part is always left out by wingnuts like Yourself. If we had NOT staged a coup in 1953 a revolution in 1979 wuld never have happened the way it did, but you ignore the orginal sin in that instance, just focus on their response once they had thrown off the SHAH which WE placed there.

    ReplyDelete
  52. LIKE I said FOOLE revisionist history.

    ReplyDelete
  53. Or the fact that the british played in iraq, iran and afghanistan post WW!, and controlled Palistine post WW!, making promises to both sides they never intended tio keep.

    ReplyDelete
  54. It was standard British parctice to divide native groups against each other to keep them fighting amounst themselves like a house divided, so they could rule over both sides much easier.

    ReplyDelete
  55. Too bad when they failed at ruling a country, they left so much animosity in their wake.

    ReplyDelete
  56. While you're reading about WW1 there Cliffy, check out the "Ottoman Empire".

    ReplyDelete
  57. Son I know about the ottoman empire, the allied them selves with germany and the Austro-hungarian Empires in WW1, and LOST.

    So it was the clash of empires not cultures then son.

    ReplyDelete
  58. And it was TWO christian based Eurpoean Empires allied with a muslim Based middle east empire, against the Russian(christian) Empire, British (christian)Empire And reminanmtes of the French (christian)Empire, in WW1.

    Not the clash of civilisations you keep throwimg out son.

    ReplyDelete
  59. So nice tryat CHERRY picking your empires son, but there was ^ Empires in WW1, FIVE Christian Empires and ONE Muslim .

    ReplyDelete
  60. The christians were on BOTH sides in that war, as usual in christian history in Europe. they fought amonst themselves from the fall of Rome till the last century, and even went as far as trying to subjucate the entire earth.

    ReplyDelete
  61. But Dolty Boy finds out it was always the muslims fault.

    ReplyDelete
  62. It's all-out civil war in the GOP


    From The American Conservative, a magazine founded by Pat Buchanan. I can't believe I agree with this editorial. But it's rather brilliant.

    GOP MUST GO

    ....It should surprise few readers that we think a vote that is seen—in America and the world at large—as a decisive “No” vote on the Bush presidency is the best outcome....

    Faced on Sept. 11, 2001 with a great challenge, President Bush made little effort to understand who had attacked us and why—thus ignoring the prerequisite for crafting an effective response. He seemingly did not want to find out, and he had staffed his national-security team with people who either did not want to know or were committed to a prefabricated answer.

    As a consequence, he rushed America into a war against Iraq, a war we are now losing and cannot win, one that has done far more to strengthen Islamist terrorists than anything they could possibly have done for themselves. Bush’s decision to seize Iraq will almost surely leave behind a broken state divided into warring ethnic enclaves, with hundreds of thousands killed and maimed and thousands more thirsting for revenge against the country that crossed the ocean to attack them. The invasion failed at every level...

    The war will continue as long as Bush is in office, for no other reason than the feckless president can’t face the embarrassment of admitting defeat. The chain of events is not complete: Bush, having learned little from his mistakes, may yet seek to embroil America in new wars against Iran and Syria.

    Meanwhile, America’s image in the world, its capacity to persuade others that its interests are common interests, is lower than it has been in memory. All over the world people look at Bush and yearn for this country—which once symbolized hope and justice—to be humbled....

    There may be little Americans can do to atone for this presidency, which will stain our country’s reputation for a long time. But the process of recovering our good name must begin somewhere, and the logical place is in the voting booth this Nov. 7. If we are fortunate, we can produce a result that is seen—in Washington, in Peoria, and in world capitals from Prague to Kuala Lumpur—as a repudiation of George W. Bush and the war of aggression he launched against Iraq....

    On Nov. 7, the world will be watching as we go to the polls, seeking to ascertain whether the American people have the wisdom to try to correct a disastrous course. Posterity will note too if their collective decision is one that captured the attention of historians—that of a people voting, again and again, to endorse a leader taking a country in a catastrophic direction. The choice is in our hands.

    ReplyDelete
  63. Voltron said...

    Read up on the "moors".


    Hey Bubble boy.

    It's "moops".

    ReplyDelete
  64. Ten reasons to vote repug;

    1. Vote Republican If You Think It's A Good Idea To Put Detailed Atom Bomb Plans On The Internet For Anyone To See

    2. Vote Republican If You Want To Stay The Course In Iraq

    3. Vote Republican If You Think The President Should Get Advice On Gay-Bashing From A Pastor Who Secretly Bangs Male Prostitutes

    4. Vote Republican If You Think The Best Way To Deal With A Child Predator Is To Cover Your Own Ass

    5. Vote Republican If You Hate The Military

    6. Vote Republican If You Like People Who'll Say Literally Anything To Get Elected

    7. Vote Republican If You Think The Best Way To Answer A Tough Question Is To Have Your Questioner Beaten Up

    8. Vote Republican If You Think That Laws Are For Other People

    9. Vote Republican If You Think It's Cool For Congressmen To Pay Their Mistresses To Keep Quiet Until After Election Day

    10. Vote Republican If You Still Think That This Crew In Congress Isn't The Most Corrupt, Hypocritical, Useless Bunch Of Asshats You've Ever Seen In Your Life

    ReplyDelete
  65. If the ten reasons to vote for the party which is trying to DESTROY this democracy do not apply to YOU, cast your vote to restore this democracy back to the people, VOTE anything but repug.

    ReplyDelete
  66. More reasons to vote repuplican.

    11. Vote republican if you enjoy failure.

    12. Vote republican if you enjoy being hated and feared by the entire planet.

    13. Vote republican if you hate the Constitution and want to abolish it.

    14. Vote republican if you enjoy wearing jackboots or spontaneous goosestepping.

    15. Vote republican if you like seeing Americans coming home in body bags.

    16. Vote republican if you can't wait to start World War 3

    17. Vote republican if you like torture.

    18. Vote republican if you enjoy being in debt to China

    19. Vote republican if you are not middle class, and want to disolve the middle class in our country.

    20. Vote republican if you hate and want to destroy, all that America is, was, and ever will stand for again.

    ReplyDelete
  67. Talk about Karma Clif.

    Check this out.

    Last Sunday Ted Haggard gave his last public prayer to his church audience. And it started out like this.

    “Heavenly Father give us grace and mercy, help us this next week and a half as we go into national elections and Lord we pray for our country.

    Father we pray lies would be exposed and deception exposed. Father we pray that wisdom would come upon our electorate…”


    Lol.

    Looks like Ted finally got one answered.

    ReplyDelete
  68. 1999 war games foresaw problems in Iraq

    By JOHN HEILPRIN
    ASSOCIATED PRESS WRITER

    WASHINGTON -- The U.S. government conducted a series of secret war games in 1999 that anticipated an invasion of Iraq would require 400,000 troops, and even then chaos might ensue.

    In its "Desert Crossing" games, 70 military, diplomatic and intelligence officials assumed the high troop levels would be needed to keep order, seal borders and take care of other security needs.

    The documents came to light Saturday through a Freedom of Information Act request by the George Washington University's National Security Archive, an independent research institute and library.

    "The conventional wisdom is the U.S. mistake in Iraq was not enough troops," said Thomas Blanton, the archive's director. "But the Desert Crossing war game in 1999 suggests we would have ended up with a failed state even with 400,000 troops on the ground."

    ReplyDelete
  69. Worfeus that war game was pre 9-11 so Georgie and Dumsfeld thought they should ignore it, for their (d)illusionary post 9-11 thinking.

    ReplyDelete
  70. U.S. seeks silence on secret CIA prisons
    Court is asked to bar detainees from talking about interrogations

    By Carol D. Leonnig and Eric Rich

    Updated: 5:23 a.m. MT Nov 4, 2006
    The Bush administration has told a federal judge that terrorism suspects held in secret CIA prisons should not be allowed to reveal details of the "alternative interrogation methods" that their captors used to get them to talk.

    The government says in new court filings that those interrogation methods are now among the nation's most sensitive national security secrets and that their release -- even to the detainees' own attorneys -- "could reasonably be expected to cause extremely grave damage." Terrorists could use the information to train in counter-interrogation techniques and foil government efforts to elicit information about their methods and plots, according to government documents submitted to U.S. District Judge Reggie B. Walton on Oct. 26.

    The battle over legal rights for terrorism suspects detained for years in CIA prisons centers on Majid Khan, a 26-year-old former Catonsville resident who was one of 14 high-value detainees transferred in September from the "black" sites to the U.S. military prison at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba. A lawyer with the Center for Constitutional Rights, which represents many detainees at Guantanamo, is seeking emergency access to him.

    ‘Alternative interrogation techniques’
    The government, in trying to block lawyers' access to the 14 detainees, effectively asserts that the detainees' experiences are a secret that should never be shared with the public.

    Because Khan "was detained by CIA in this program, he may have come into possession of information, including locations of detention, conditions of detention, and alternative interrogation techniques that is classified at the TOP SECRET//SCI level," an affidavit from CIA Information Review Officer Marilyn A. Dorn states, using the acronym for "sensitive compartmented information."


    • More national coverage

    Gitanjali Gutierrez, an attorney for Khan's family, responded in a court document yesterday that there is no evidence that Khan had top-secret information. "Rather," she said, "the executive is attempting to misuse its classification authority . . . to conceal illegal or embarrassing executive conduct."

    Joseph Margulies, a Northwestern University law professor who has represented several detainees at Guantanamo, said the prisoners "can't even say what our government did to these guys to elicit the statements that are the basis for them being held. Kafka-esque doesn't do it justice. This is 'Alice in Wonderland.' "

    Kathleen Blomquist, a Justice Department spokeswoman, said yesterday that details of the CIA program must be protected from disclosure. She said the lawyer's proposal for talking with Khan "is inadequate to protect unique and potentially highly classified information that is vital to our country's ability to fight terrorism."

    Feds fight access to lawyers
    Government lawyers also argue in court papers that detainees such as Khan previously held in CIA sites have no automatic right to speak to lawyers because the new Military Commissions Act, signed by President Bush last month, stripped them of access to U.S. courts. That law established separate military trials for terrorism suspects.

    The U.S. Court of Appeals for the District of Columbia Circuit is considering whether Guantanamo detainees have the right to challenge their imprisonment in U.S. courts. The government urged Walton to defer any decision on access to lawyers until the higher court rules.


    CLICK FOR MESSAGE BOARD
    Discuss your thoughts on this story



    The government filing expresses concern that detainee attorneys will provide their clients with information about the outside world and relay information about detainees to others. In an affidavit, Guantanamo's staff judge advocate, Cmdr. Patrick M. McCarthy, said that in one case a detainee's attorney took questions from a BBC reporter with him into a meeting with a detainee at the camp. Such indirect interviews are "inconsistent with the purpose of counsel access" at the prison, McCarthy wrote.

    Dorn said in the court papers that for lawyers to speak to former CIA detainees under the security protocol used for other Guantanamo detainees "poses an unacceptable risk of disclosure." But detainee attorneys said they have followed the protocol to the letter, and none has been accused of releasing information without government clearance.

    Captives who have spent time in the secret prisons, and their advocates, have said the detainees were sometimes treated harshly with techniques that included "waterboarding," which simulates drowning. Bush has declared that the administration will not tolerate the use of torture but has pressed to retain the use of unspecified "alternative" interrogation methods.

    The government argues that once rules are set for the new military commissions, the high-value detainees will have military lawyers and "unprecedented" rights to challenge charges against them in that venue.

    In a separate court document filed last night, Khan's attorneys offered declarations from Khaled al-Masri, a released detainee who said he was held with Khan in a dingy CIA prison called "the salt pit" in Afghanistan. There, prisoners slept on the floor, wore diapers and were given tainted water that made them vomit, Masri said. American interrogators treated him roughly, he said, and told him he "was in a land where there were no laws."

    Khan's family did not learn of his whereabouts until Bush announced his transfer in September, more than three years after he was seized in Pakistan

    The family said Khan was staying with a brother in Karachi, Pakistan, in March 2003 when men, who were not in uniform, burst into the apartment late one night and put hoods over the heads of Khan, his brother Mohammad and his brother's wife. The couple's 1-month-old son was also seized.

    Taken off the street
    Another brother, Mahmood Khan, who has lived in the United States since 1989, said in an interview this week that the four were hustled into police vehicles and taken to an undisclosed location, where they were separated and held in windowless rooms. His sister-in-law and her baby remained together, he said.

    According to Mahmood, Mohammad said they were questioned repeatedly by men who identified themselves as members of Pakistan's intelligence service and others who identified themselves as U.S. officials. Mohammad's wife was released after seven days, and he was released after three months, without charge. He was left on a street corner without explanation, Mahmood said.

    Periodically, he said, people who identified themselves as Pakistani officials contacted Mohammad and assured him that his brother would soon be released and that they ought not contact a lawyer or speak with the news media.

    "We had no way of knowing who had him or where he was," Mahmood Khan said this week at the family home outside Baltimore. He said they complied with the requests because they believed anything else could delay his brother's release.

    In Maryland, Khan's family was under constant FBI surveillance from the moment of his arrest, his brother said. The FBI raided their house the day after the arrest , removing computer equipment, papers and videos. Each family member was questioned extensively and shown photographs of terrorism suspects that Mahmood Khan said none of them recognized. For much of the next year, he said, they were followed everywhere.

    "Pretty much we were scared," he said. "We live in this country. We have everything here."

    Staff researcher Julie Tate contributed to this report.

    © 2006 The Washington Post Company

    ReplyDelete
  71. sounds like Bush and the repugs are playing CYA because they dont want people to realize they are strong advocates of torture, despite their hippocritical words to the contrary.....their actions speak volumes, they are enemies of freedom, democracy, due process and basic human rights.

    ReplyDelete
  72. From Real Clear Politics

    Poll Averages

    President Bush Job Approval
    RCP Average
    Approve
    39.0%
    Disapprove
    55.4%
    Spread 16.4%

    Generic Congressional Vote
    RCP Average
    Republican
    40.6%
    Democrat
    52.1%
    Spread 11.5%

    Direction of Country
    RCP Average
    Right Direction
    33.8%
    Wrong Direction
    61.5%
    Spread 27.7%

    Congressional Job Approval
    RCP Average
    Approve
    30.0%
    Disapprove
    59.0%
    Spread 29.0%

    ReplyDelete
  73. Whether you believe in a God or not, it does seem that fate, God, the universe, whatever, at times seems to be trying to communicate with us. Normally, by unforseen events in our lives.

    1st, the right wing head of the war against Child Molesters, Republican Mark Foley, is found to be himself, a Child Molester.

    People took notice of this token of hypocrisy, but went on as normal.

    Then last week, the number one player in the NeoCon Christian right, the Head of the Evangelical churches, and the man with literally the "Ear of the President", Ted Haggard, prayed in front of an audience that truths would be revaled prior to the elections, and lies uncovered.

    A week later HE is revealed as being guilty of precisely the same things he has been preaching against for so many years.

    Another Pharisical hypocrite revealed in the right wing just before Americans go to vote.


    Now, today, the night before the elections, the USS Intrepid, which is an icon in American naval history, surviving Japanese Zero attacks, is "stuck in the mud".

    A symbol of our military might is "bogged down in a quagmire".

    Sometimes it seems like we're being bonked over the head. I wonder how many Americans will notice that the mighty Intrepid is "stuck in the mud", just like our military?

    I wonder if they will take note.

    ReplyDelete
  74. "It would seem that fate is not without a sense of irony"

    Morpheus

    ReplyDelete
  75. Wow, Worfo watches Seinfeld.

    Whooda thunk it?


    Oh and Cliffy?

    Regarding the Ottoman empire, they had been in decline for quite awhile when WWI began.

    Wasn't exactly their heyday.

    But in their prime they subjugated quite a bit of the old world.

    If it weren't for those European christians and jews you hate so much you might be speaking arabic now.

    ReplyDelete
  76. And I've read that the muslims admired Hitler VERY much...

    ReplyDelete
  77. Dolt said "And I've read that the muslims admired Hitler VERY much..."

    and since imitation is the most sincere form of flattery GWB and the Neo Cons OBVIOUSLY admire their mentor the Fueher VERY MUCH as well..........birds of a feather Dolt???????

    ReplyDelete
  78. Voltron said...
    And I've read that the muslims admired Hitler VERY much...


    And here you thought you guys had nothing in common.

    ReplyDelete
  79. See?

    It's a small world after all.

    ReplyDelete
  80. Bush Becomes First President Since the World War II Era to Oversee an Economic Expansion in Which Inflation Has Outpaced Wages
    Despite This, However, Corporate Profits Are at Their Highest Levels Since the Vietnam War
    Click to rate content
    Currently 3.00/5
    1
    2
    3
    4
    5
    3.0 out of 5
    By Timothy Sexton
    Aug 28 2006 09:15PM


    "As if further evidence were needed that Pres. Bush is the most incompetent and ineffective President in US history, now comes word that he has achieved yet another dubious milestone. Remember now, that Pres. Bush became the first President since Herbert Hoover took the country into the Great Depression to actually cause more Americans to lose jobs than gain jobs. Now we have to go all the way back to the World War II era to find the last President since Bush who has overseen an economic expansion in which wages for most workers have not kept pace with inflation.
    You’ll notice I said most workers. Nine out of ten American workers have now seen inflation grow faster their wages have grown since 2003. Wages and salaries today make up the smallest percentage of the nation’s gross domestic product since that particular little figure first started being kept in 1947. On the other hand, corporate profits are at their highest level since the 1960’s. You remember the 1960’s don’t you; from your history books, if not from memory. There was this little thing called the Vietnam War. It was a war American didn’t need to fight because our national security was not at stake; it was a war from which our leaders said we could not “cut and run” because it would be a disaster from which we would never recover (we did); it was a war against a tiny little country that America should have blazed through in about a month.

    Just to give you even more concrete evidence of where the policies of Pres. George W. Bush are directed, consider that despite the fact that 90% of Americans living in this phantom period of economic expansion—frankly, I haven’t seen any evidence it really exists—are not making enough gains in wages to keep pace with rising prices, the huge investment bank UBS has deemed this period in American history “the golden age of profitability.”

    He’s your President. Why not write him a thank-you note today for all he’s done for you."

    ReplyDelete
  81. Dolt, tomorrow around this time it will be all over but the crying for you rethugs!

    ReplyDelete
  82. Dolty I do NOT hate Europeans or Christians, just because I quote HISTORY accurately.

    True facts are not hate but the truth son. Something that is an anathema to a repug reichwingnut IDIOT like you.

    The truth of the last four centuries is one of European attempts to control vast Empires on this planet, we in America just happened to inherit the remains of the British Empire's military bases like Diego Garcia ET AL at the end of WW2, and attempted to become the western leader in the Empires of the multi-national corporation supported by our vast Military abilities. Like when Henry Kissinger used the CIA to formulate and execute a coup in Chile circa 1973, or the Dulles brothers did the same thing in Iran circa 1953. What George Bush did in Iraq for the neo-cons and their oil company masters, was to overtly do the same thing.

    It was NEVER about WMD's or Democracy but about who controlled the oil, Bush as much admitted it in a recent speech. He didn't want the wrong people to have control of the oil, the right people being those he FRONTS for.

    ReplyDelete
  83. BTW Dolty, the Ottoman empire could have NEVER stood up to the military might of the west after the industrialization and mechanization of combat with tanks and planes began. In fact the dicomity of the middle east is between those who bow to the west on matters of military matters like Saddam and the SHAH vs those who do not like the Ayatollah and Osama Bin Laden.

    The Iranians, Osama and the insurgents in both Iraq, and Hezbollah in Lebanon, have to some extent discovered the ability of fourth generation warfare to deny the US and it's satellite state Israel, the total power in a modern air-land military machine. And that is the reason that any attempts to use our third generation warfare techniques in that region will always fall prey to an insurgency which will follow the Afghan mold against the USSR and the Iraqi mold against the US.

    It is a way for an indigenous people to under cut a large military machine it's power, at the same time move through out the theater and decide when and where to strike.

    Any attempt to create the third front in IRAN where the US is bogged down fighting a counter insurgency against the Iranians, but worse, because it might be able to get the Sunni's and Shiites to drop their centuries old animosities to fight as one against the US and it's attempts to dominate the region.

    Bush could do something NOBODY has been able to do since the 9th century, get the entire Muslim world to stop fighting amongst themselves over their history and who is the legitimate heirs of Mohammad, and ally themselves to fight against an invader in THREE countries in the region.

    ReplyDelete
  84. Special Comment;

    And finally tonight, a Special Comment about tomorrow's elections.

    We are, as every generation, inseparable from our own time.

    Thus is our perspective, inevitably that of the explorer looking into the wrong end of the telescope.

    But even accounting for our myopia, it's hard to imagine there have been many elections more important than this one, certainly not in Non-Presidential years.

    And so we look at the verdict in the trial of Saddam Hussein yesterday, and, with the very phrase "October, or November, Surprise" now a part of our vernacular, and the chest-thumping coming from so many of the Republican campaigners today, each of us must wonder about the convenience of the timing of his conviction and sentencing.

    But let us give history and coincidence the benefit of the doubt — let's say it's just "happened" that way — and for a moment not look into the wrong end of the telescope.

    Let's perceive instead the bigger picture:

    Saddam Hussein, found guilty in an Iraqi court.

    Who can argue against that?

    He is officially, what the world always knew he was: a war criminal.

    Mr. Bush, was this imprimatur, worth the cost of 2,832 American lives, and thousands more American lives yet to be lost?

    Is the conviction of Saddam Hussein the reason you went to war in Iraq?

    Or did you go to war in Iraq because of the Weapons of Mass Destruction that did not exist?

    Or did you go to war in Iraq because of the connection between Iraq and Al Qaeda that did not exist?

    Or did you go to war in Iraq to break the bonds of tyranny there — while installing the mechanisms of tyranny here?

    Or did you go to war in Iraq because you felt the need to wreak vengeance against somebody — anybody?

    Or did you go to war in Iraq to contain a rogue state which, months earlier, your own administration had declared had been fully contained by sanctions?

    Or did you go to war in Iraq… to keep gas prices down?

    How startling it was, Sir, to hear you introduce oil to your stump speeches over the weekend.

    Not four years removed from the most dismissive, the most condescending, the most ridiculing denials of the very hint at, as Mr. Rumsfeld put it, this "nonsense"…

    There you were, campaigning in Colorado, in Nebraska, in Florida, in Kansas — suddenly turning this 'unpatriotic idea'… into a platform plank.

    "You can imagine a world in which these extremists and radicals got control of energy resources," you told us. "And then you can imagine them saying, 'We're going to pull a bunch of oil off the market to run your price of oil up unless you do the following."

    Having frightened us, having bullied us, having lied to us, having ignored and re-written the constitution under our noses, having stayed the course, having denied you've stayed the course, having belittled us about "timelines" but instead extolled "benchmarks"…

    You've now resorted, Sir, to this?

    We must stay in Iraq to save the two-dollar gallon of gas?



    Mr. President, there is no other conclusion we can draw as we go to the polls tomorrow.

    Sir… you have been making this up as you went along.

    This country was founded to prevent anybody from making it up as they went along.

    Those vaunted founding fathers of ours have been so quoted-up, that they appear as marble statues: like the chiseled guards of China, or the faces on Mount Rushmore.

    But in fact they were practical people and the thing they obviously feared most, was a government of men and not laws.

    They provided the checks and balances for a reason.

    No one man could run the government the way he saw fit — unless he, at the least, took into consideration what those he governed saw.

    A House of Representatives would be the people's eyes.

    A Senate would be the corrective force on that House.

    An Executive would do the work… and hold the Constitution to his chest like his child.

    A Supreme Court would oversee it all.

    Checks and balances.

    Where did that go, Mr. Bush?

    And what price did we pay because we have let it go?

    Saddam Hussein will get out of Iraq the same way 2,832 Americans have, and thousands more.

    He'll get out faster than we will.

    And if nothing changes tomorrow, you, Sir, will be out of the White House long before the rest of us can say… we are out of Iraq.

    And whose fault is this?

    Not truly yours. You took advantage of those of us who were afraid, and those of us who believed unity and nation took precedence over all else.

    But we let you take that advantage.

    And so we let you go to war in Iraq. To… oust Saddam. Or find non-existant Weapons. Or avenge 9/11. Or fight terrorists who only got there after we did. Or as cover to change the fabric of our Constitution. Or for lower prices at The Texaco. Or… ?

    There are still a few hours left, before the polls open, sir, there are many rationalizations still untried.

    And whatever your motives of the moment, we the people have, in true good faith and with the genuine patriotism of self-sacrifice (of which you have shown you know nothing)… we have let you go on…

    Making it up.

    As you went along.

    Un-checked… and un-balanced.

    Vote.

    by, Keith Olbermann

    ReplyDelete
  85. Well hopefully tomorrow we can write them a script.

    ReplyDelete
  86. Were you repugs all hatched from pods or something, I just watched Bill Bennett parrot TT and and say GWB is a "great man" and compared him to FDR...........................the truth which you repugs despise is that you repugs despise FDR because he was for the common man rather than the wealthy elite, he implemented massive social programs and a huge wealth distribution that helped to bring us out of the Great Depression, and repugs have been fanatically committed to dismantling his safety nets and social programs EVER SINCE.

    ReplyDelete
  87. Wow GWB is actually showing some honesty maybe its the coke or alcohol talking..........he just said the war in Iraq was about oil...................................................................course that was after he lied and said it was about WMD, and removing a evil tyrtant, and liberating the oppressed Iraqi people and installing democracy in the middle east, and fighting terrorists, and making the world safer, and stimulating the economy etc.............................btw, Bush lied even about the reason for the invasion, he stated that the terroristsd could take all that essentially non existent Iraqi oil off the market and drive prices to $400 a barrel, like taking less than 1 million a day off the market could drive prices to $400........................Bush the lying fear mongerer just loves his fear tactics!

    ReplyDelete
  88. This after years of insulting and attacking anyone who dared to say the war was for oil.

    ReplyDelete
  89. Another reason to vote republican.

    Vote republican if you want NOTHING but lies.

    ReplyDelete
  90. The Prof. wants to know.

    Does Ted Kennedy know how to swim?

    Is Al Franken really a midget?

    Is George Soros pissed over all the money he's wasted?

    Does John Kerry dive for oysters?

    Is Ned Lamont saying "what was I thinking?"

    When was the last time Billy banged Hillary?

    ReplyDelete
  91. And......

    Are liberals really scared?

    Do liberals really dislike the military?

    Do liberals despise success?

    Do liberals want the unemployment rate over 6%?

    Do liberals want suspected terrorist to have lawyers?

    Do liberals want to kill babies in the third trimester?

    ReplyDelete
  92. and furthermore........

    Do liberals want to elimanate christmas trees in public schools?

    Do liberals want to redistribute the wealth?

    Do liberals want to increase taxes on the "rich?"

    Do liberals want to say,what exactly is "rich?"

    Do liberals want to close down Gitmo?

    ReplyDelete
  93. Or idiots like doctor chaos here occupying positions of power.

    ReplyDelete
  94. and on and on........

    Do liberals think Saddam can be rehabilitated?

    Do liberals think 9-11 was an inside job?

    Do liberals think Nancy Pelosi still gets wet?

    Do liberals want the ABA to appoint all Supreme Court judges?

    ReplyDelete
  95. the hits just keep on coming......

    Do liberals want to move the nations capital to San Francisco?

    Is harry Reid still breathing?

    If so prove it!

    Does John Kerry put ketchup on his wife's titties?

    Do liberals really think Lynn Cheney is dumb?

    ReplyDelete
  96. its too easy.......

    Should anyone named Kennedy have a drivers license?

    Is Barney Frank really gay,or is he faking it?

    How do you fit $90,000 in a freezer?

    Do you think Bill still calls Monica?

    ReplyDelete
  97. Come on.....is there a liberal out there willing to answer the Profs. questions?

    If you're scared,just say you're scared.

    ReplyDelete
  98. Prof Chaos, you massage is ready, but please bring you own meth.

    ReplyDelete
  99. It felt good to vote today.

    Now lets hope our votes are actually counted.

    ReplyDelete
  100. FBI looking into possible Va. voter intimidation
    Officials probing reports of phone calls allegedly intended to confuse voters

    NBC, MSNBC and news services
    Updated: 2 hours, 30 minutes ago
    The Federal Bureau of Investigation is looking into the possibility of voter intimidation in the hard-fought U.S. Senate race between Sen. George Allen, a Republican, and Democratic challenger James Webb, officials told NBC News.

    State officials alerted the Justice Department on Tuesday to several complaints of suspicious phone calls to voters who attempted to misdirect or confuse them about election day, Jean Jensen, Secretary of the Virginia State Board of Elections, told NBC’s David Shuster.

    Jensen told NBC that she had been contacted by FBI agents. The FBI in Richmond refused to comment.

    State Democratic Party counsel Jay Myerson said in a written statement issued by the Webb campaign that he believed Republicans are behind an orchestrated effort to suppress votes for the Democratic challenger.

    Republican officials, including the executive director of the Virginia Republican Party, have told NBC that the GOP and Allen campaign are focused on mobilizing voters and have not discouraged anyone from voting.

    Recent polls suggested the Allen-Webb race was a tossup heading into Election Day.

    In the Washington, D.C., area, NBC affiliate News4 reported on its Web site that it had received e-mail from a viewer in Virginia who said he received a phone call from so-called volunteers threatening voters with arrest if they cast ballots.

    News4 reported: “The viewer's e-mail stated after he had voted, he received a call from an unknown caller who said they knew the voter was registered out of state and would be arrested if they voted today. The viewer's e-mail stated he's been registered to vote in Virginia for the last three years and has the Virginia Voter Registration card to prove it.”

    The Webb campaign also said other voters are getting calls telling them their polling location has changed.

    There are also allegations that fliers that say, "Skip This Election," are blanketing African-American communities, News4 reported.

    Other voting problems
    Meanwhile, programming errors and inexperience with electronic voting machines frustrated poll workers in hundreds of precincts early Tuesday, delaying voters in Indiana and Ohio and leaving some in Florida with little choice but use paper ballots instead.

    In Cleveland, voters rolled their eyes as election workers fumbled with new touchscreen machines that they couldn’t get to start properly.

    In Indiana’s Marion County, about 175 of 914 precincts turned to paper because poll workers didn’t know how to run the machines, said Marion County Clerk Doris Ann Sadler. She said it could take most of the day to fix all of the machine-related issues.

    Election officials in Delaware County, Ind., planned to seek a court order to extend voting after an apparent computer error prevented voters from casting ballots in 75 precincts there. Delaware County Clerk Karen Wenger said the cards that activate the machines were programmed incorrectly.

    “We are working with precincts one-by-one over the telephone to get the problem fixed,” Wenger said.

    ReplyDelete
  101. Wonder if TT and Dolt have joined Freedom Fraud in the Loser Lounge?

    ReplyDelete
  102. Nobody intimidated me. Course it helps being white and looking like a republican.

    I heard about that though and its ridiculous. Anyone who would attempt in anyway to intimidate, harrass or trick a citizen into not voting ought to be in jail. They are enemies of democracy and enemies to all of us.

    Like the right wing quack Laura Ingraham, (Or is it Inbreadham?)who as we speak is telling her radio listeners to JAM the voter protection hotline.

    Put her on the Axis of Evil too.

    ReplyDelete
  103. Anyone guilty of vote fraud, republican or democrat, regardless of why they are doing it, or what they are doing, if their intent is to defraud the election and "stuff the ballot box" so to speak, they are the worst kind of criminals and the greatest danger to democracy their is.

    As badly as I want to beat George W Bush, and the wicked corrupt republicans in office right now, I still would not cheat in anyway, even if I thought I'd never get caught. I would not want a victory that was a lie.

    ReplyDelete
  104. Once people cheat, then there is no election. There is no democracy.

    Just a national game of deceit, wherein the party who is better at deceiving, wins.

    ReplyDelete
  105. Worf said "Nobody intimidated me. Course it helps being white and looking like a republican."

    you dont look like Rove or Chenney do you LOL, those authoritarian nazi's look like the only way they could get laid is walking into a "massage" parlor with a $500 bill taped to their forehead.

    Seriously though Ingram should be arrested for telling her viewers to Jam a fraud hotline that is condoning voting fraud, and for the record anyone convicted of voting fraud or intimidation or asny other SCAM to surpress the vote should face a mandatory minimum of 20 years in jail with NO PRESIDENTIAL OR GOVERNOR PARDONS!

    ReplyDelete
  106. there should be some fear of cheating and right now there is none, they need to do away with the Diebold sham machines and enact votor fraud laws with teeth, with no Pardons, I dont care if they have to modify the Constitution to insure the integrity of the voting process.

    ReplyDelete
  107. why would someone tell than listeners to jam a voter protection hotline unless they KNEW there was fraud going on and openly supported and condoned that fraud..............there is no other reason for doing that!

    ReplyDelete
  108. Reports from Connecticut say VOTER TURNOUT is breaking records for mid term elections, which looks GOOD for Lamont and bad for Loserman.

    ReplyDelete
  109. Mike said...

    you dont look like Rove or Chenney do you LOL


    No. I have hair.

    ReplyDelete
  110. There's a lot of important races, but I would love to see Loserman, Allen and Talent lose big!

    ReplyDelete
  111. And in Maryland the repugs are using out of state homeless to hand Out dishonest campaign materials lying about which party Ehrlich and Steele belong to,

    Isn't lying a sin?

    Why do reichwingnut repugs do it all the time then?

    ReplyDelete
  112. Mike said...
    why would someone tell than listeners to jam a voter protection hotline unless they KNEW there was fraud going on and openly supported and condoned that fraud..............there is no other reason for doing that!


    Laura Ingraham just showed her true nature for everyone to see.

    She is no doctor.

    She is a cheap right wing hack.

    ReplyDelete
  113. hi Mike, Worf, Clif, Lydia any and all other Dems!

    thought I'd pop in and wish you all the best of luck tonight!

    I've got a bailey's and a box of liqueur chocs ready to enjoy and it looks good for the house and gov's. The senate is close, check out

    www.pollster.com for details!

    ReplyDelete
  114. Better question CW, did you sell your soul like they did?

    ReplyDelete
  115. Hey British Gary.

    Save one of those for me cause if we lose I might have to move to England.

    ReplyDelete
  116. From the GOP handbook of Maryland politics:

    (1) Recruit homeless men in Philadelphia;
    (2) Bus them into Maryland;
    (3) Arrange for the Republican governor's wife to greet them upon their arrival;
    (4) Outfit them in hats and T-shirts for the governor's re-election campaign;
    (5) Have them pass out flyers in heavily Democratic areas that erroneously identify the GOP candidates for governor and U.S. senator as "Democrats."

    The complete primer here.

    Update: A first-hand account here.

    ReplyDelete
  117. Worf,

    You'd be welcome to stay over at my house, the wife won't mind.

    Just say you're canadian!

    ReplyDelete
  118. Voting problems in at least 8 states, Co, PA, Va, IN, NJ, Ill, Fla, MD

    ReplyDelete
  119. No Gary I would not lie like that, I am not a repug.

    ReplyDelete
  120. Colorado seems like the election meltdown state, with machines failed and LONG lines waiting

    ReplyDelete
  121. Hmm.... I would BG, but Johnny done gone and ruined that one for me.

    How about if I said I was from Kazakhstan?

    Seemed to work for Borat.

    ReplyDelete
  122. Clif,

    their crap isn't working, check out pollster.com

    it's looking good.

    And let them cheat, when the dems regain control open shedloads of investigations, they're all knitting their nooses as we speak.

    Good on you guy's, it's GREAT to see democracy in action!!!!!!!!

    Remember, stay the course VOTE DEM!

    ReplyDelete
  123. hmmmmm, the pair of you won't lie like a repug so we'll need to convince her you're nice Americans.

    That's tough guy's, really tough.

    You'll need to bring with you plenty of Hershy kisses, a hand-made card stating "I'm sorry about what the dipshits in my country did" and a blue cap proclaiming "it wasn't me"

    ReplyDelete
  124. I know GTary, in Connecticut there could be a landslide which buries the lying bush kisser.

    Some 70 percent of the registered voters will go to the polls today, according to Connecticut Secretary Susan Bysiewicz.

    By comparison, 56 percent of the state’s voters cast ballots four years ago, Bysiewicz said.

    "We only had 5 hours of voting this morning and we’ve already at nearly 30 percent in some cities," she said.

    ReplyDelete
  125. Gary I only voted for 2 repugs out of 25 local candidates, one was for county Jailer, because the dem who is there now is as crooked as Rove, and the other because he is doing a good job, but I voted straight dem as far as state and congress goes.

    ReplyDelete
  126. Gary I would like to visit, but I am staying right here and FIGHT for this country.

    I ain't no gutless repug who runs away when the going gets tough.

    ReplyDelete
  127. The DC pubies are crying that the dems will investigate all their crimes if the dems win, too bad, there is an old saying,

    if you can't do the time,

    don't do the crime.

    they should have thought of that before breaking the LAW.

    ReplyDelete
  128. British Gary said...

    That's tough guy's, really tough.

    You'll need to bring with you plenty of Hershy kisses, a hand-made card stating "I'm sorry about what the dipshits in my country did" and a blue cap proclaiming "it wasn't me"


    See Clif? I told you. We're internationally screwed. If we can't get a break in England, then imagine how it will be for us elsewhere.

    ReplyDelete
  129. The world hates us. They used to LOVE us. When Clinton was President, the world WORSHIPPED Americans.

    Now they burn us in effigy.

    They hate us. I heard something like 90 percent of England hates us now.

    Wake up republicans. No one likes you.

    ReplyDelete
  130. And therefore no one likes US.

    The U.S that is.

    ReplyDelete
  131. Worfeus, I am staying here and fighting for this country unlike Richard Perle who ran off to France.

    Or the repugs who cut and run from their responsibility every time.

    ReplyDelete
  132. Bush took office like Eric Von Zipper at a pool hall, breaking everything he touches and giving the "Finger" to anyone who won't bow to his will.

    ReplyDelete
  133. In fact, thats who Bush is.

    Eric Von Zipper.

    ReplyDelete
  134. Superb Clif!

    I'd like to follow the elections until US midnight but that will be 5am here so I won't. I've got work in the morning!

    I'll check in regularly over the next few days as the counts come in.

    I think it's great you're fighting for your constitution. Worf was only kidding, he's no gutless repug either.

    Is it just me or is what's currently happening stateside a confederates revival?

    Also, is it true that Texas wanted to devolve from the united states and go it alone?

    ReplyDelete
  135. HEY BG, I had a feeling you would pop in today. Keep your fingers crossed I have a feeling today is the day our Country takes a step toward becoming America again,a god and wholesome country instead of a reincarnation of the Third Reich.

    ReplyDelete
  136. Kenny(still in the closet)Melhman is on CNN crying about dirty tricks, how Rovian of him.

    ReplyDelete
  137. i'm wondering if after this election we might see a splintering of our two party system that eventually some time in the next 2-6 years gives us a choice between 3-5 partys. I think being locked into an either or, two party system for so long has taken away from campaigning on real issues and greatly reduced our choices and severely crippled this country because neither party has shown the resolve to be the bad guy and make hard choices to reduce the deficit and balance the budget (eccept Clinton and Rubin)

    ReplyDelete
  138. Encouragement from Larry Johnson,

    A Republican GOTV Charade?

    by Larry Johnson

    Like most Americans following the hype surrounding today's election, I accepted at face value the Republican claim that they had a formidable 72-hour get out the vote machine that would turn the tables on the Democrats. I think it is bullshit and here's why.

    I'm still a registered Republican in Maryland, as is my wife. During the 2002 and the 2004 elections we were called several times by Republican volunteers asking if we were going to vote and offering to schlep us to the polls. Not this time. I sat by the phone yesterday waiting eagerly to get a GOP call (I wanted to give them a piece of my mind). Nothing. Crickets.

    So, today, I call up a couple of Republican buddies who also live in Maryland and ask if they had been called. No calls other than a robo from Rudy Guiliani a couple of days ago. I reached out to an old friend across the river in Virginia. He's a registered Republican and has given them money. No calls and no visitors. Yet, early this morning, someone knocked on his door and asked him to vote for Jim Webb.

    Maryland and Virginia are critical races for the Republicans and they appear to be missing in action. And turnout is heavy in both places. While my sample is not statistically significant, I think it reflects something happening on the ground that the polls missed. The discontent among Independents, Democrats, and even some Republicans is real and intense. It also appears Karl Rove and his buddies have handled the elections like the war in Iraq and the aftermath of Katrina--they talk tough but put no muscle behind their words. Let's hope so.

    ReplyDelete
  139. For a nice break, and entertaining also

    ReplyDelete
  140. yeah Worf, Americans are not liked here to say the least. American's are hated.

    I am definitely an exception and I used to think you were all warmongers until I came to American blogs and participated in an attempt to understand you all better. My wife tried at the time but she couldn't stand the bitterness in debate just like I can't but MUCH worse. I think most women are like that not just here but in America too. My wife is the type who will do anything for a quiet life and she will back down, another trait in many women.

    I remember thinking it can't be all of you but what the hell's going on when the news keeps reporting so many Americans wanted war in a country that was nothing to do with 9/11? A war that was taking my country to war.

    I had to try to understand you better and it wasn't easy. Your culture is SO different despite our colonial similarities.

    That's when I wrote my essay all those months ago.

    I don't regret the effort, it's been very worthwhile and it's wonderful to have internet friends across the world. It makes me feel I'm not the only one who thinks these things (there should be no war etc.) so it's not just me.

    ReplyDelete
  141. What's the first thing Bush is going to say tonight when the Dems take back the House?

    ReplyDelete
  142. STOP the ELECTION:















    it is a national tragedy
















    Britney Spears divorcing


    Nice of them to hide it until today, rovain tactics.....at work in Hollywood.

    ReplyDelete
  143. crossing my fingers Mike?

    I've already started on the Bailey's!

    The numbers are looking great! To the tune of Status Quo, the rupugs are going "down, down, deeper and down"

    ReplyDelete
  144. BRITISH GARY - Most of us DID NOT WANT WAR!! In fact, no one did.

    It was only the demons in power (as usual) who sold to war to the Congress, swaddled in lies.

    that's why we all started a revolution. It may be just blogging, but if they hold onto power, I can't imagine real Americans allowing this to continue.

    xoxo

    ReplyDelete
  145. BG said;

    My wife tried at the time but she couldn't stand the bitterness in debate just like I can't but MUCH worse

    Really?

    Guess you two have never watched your own House of Commons on the telli?

    ReplyDelete
  146. I meant a "blogging revolution"

    ReplyDelete
  147. Clif, didn't Britney once say "we should just trust our pResident"?

    not the brightest spark in the fire is she?

    ReplyDelete
  148. No Gary but at least she was smart enough to announce she was kicking her no good husband to the curb on the one day NOBODY is listening to her.

    ReplyDelete
  149. I've had this sneaking suspician for the last 4 days or so that the repugs are basically going to concede this election and try to sabotage the democrats for the next election, i have this feeling that we will mysteriously see a terrorist attack as well as a severe recession now that the democrats are back in power and Rove will spin this in a very calculated way to blame the democrats and get the repugs back in power in 2008.................................................I could be wrong, but the slew of bad news coupled by the lack of the get out the vote like Larry Johnson said in key races, makes it look like a tactical sacrifice to gain advantage in 2008.

    ReplyDelete
  150. I know that now Lydia, but at the time it was endlessly reported on the news that we had to get Saddam before he got us with his WMD and there were SO many images of Bush standing on the smouldering heap of the towers with firemen etc.

    Then Blair gave Mayor Guilani (I don't know if I spelled his name correctly) a medal, I think it was a knighthood. Britain was allied to you as never before.

    America was united at the time and that's how it came across here. We're not as daft as we look and we figured out America wanted revenge for the attacks and who could blame you at the time? You had the sincere sympathy of the world.

    Then you seemed to go in the wrong direction and few here knew why. You were ALL labelled as warmongers when you went into Iraq.

    I can only say I didn't know then what I know now and I'm sorry I saw you all as Bush goosesteppers.

    It took me ages to figure out the complexities of the neocons/corrupt bigbusiness lobbying/oil past of Bush etc.

    Hell Lydia, when I first came to your blogs I didn't even know that Dems were left and Republicans were right!! I didn't know one from the other! Most are still this way in Britain and stereotype you all.

    I'm so sorry.

    ReplyDelete
  151. Worf,

    our commons debates are not the way we conduct politics all the time by a long stretch.

    The debates are usually riotous and designed to let off steam. If you watch the parliament channel you'll see how our politics really works. You're seeing a glorified snippet and presuming that's how it all works. Remember, a lot of it is for show too. Politicians have gotta look SINCERE eh?

    ReplyDelete
  152. High turnout in Missouri also reported on CNN, looks like many people all over this country want to say something this time with their vote.

    ReplyDelete
  153. BG, one of the first things we have to do when Bush is gone is to restore and rebuild our international reputation that Bush and his Neo Con thugs destroyed.

    trying to turn around the hatred and mistrust created by the Bush administration will prove extremely difficult, the damage could last for a generation. As an American I am ashamed that Bush my president and is associated with regular good Americans who are nothing like him, I cringe when I think how he has turned almost the entire world against us and inspired such hatred and divisivness.

    ReplyDelete
  154. British Gary said...


    The debates are usually riotous and designed to let off steam.

    As are the ones in here.

    ReplyDelete
  155. Or did you think we walk around talking like that in our day to day lives?

    ReplyDelete
  156. CNN is lauding exit polling, but they forget about the historical number of absentee voters......

    and in some states it is very high.

    ReplyDelete
  157. Gary no country is in lock step, that is why Hitler needed the gestapo inside Germany as well.

    ReplyDelete
  158. Mike. Don't be so paranoid. I know what you're saying, and I'm sure anythings possible.

    But if the races go like it looks like they are going, Bush will be lucky to stay in office. His followers willing to do such things will be lucky to stay out of jail.

    I smell a change in the air.

    ReplyDelete
  159. It looks like it is either gonna be an obvious blowout early for the dems, or a very LONG night.

    If the early elections results in Indiana and Kentucky go dem, the repugs are gonna have a long two years.

    ReplyDelete
  160. I say let the justice begin!

    ReplyDelete
  161. clif said...
    Gary no country is in lock step, that is why Hitler needed the gestapo inside Germany as well.
    .

    True. But the problem is to the rest of the world, we are all still just Americans.

    We didn't cut any slack to the Germans who allowed Hitler and the pigs into power back then. All Germans were "krauts" and although we were nice to our prisoners, we still were not fond of German or Japanese people for a long time.

    People are going to judge us as a country, not as individuals, and I think internationally, we're so messed up its gonna take a long time to fix what Bush Von Zipper broke.

    ReplyDelete
  162. Mike,

    a LOT of Brits feel EXACTLY the same about Blair!

    He does NOT represent us and this is why I really enjoy being on American blogs rather than just British ones. We share a common if not identical humiliation at what our so-called leaders are doing in our names.

    Your reputation rebuilding will take many decades. Want to know why?
    That's how long the chaos in Iraq will figure in the news and EVERY time it does it will be another dagger in your side. Another wound opened up.

    Just imagine if the Vietnam war was still in the news because of ongoing sectarian kidnaps/murders/bombings/tortures/massacres etc. I know Vietnam wasn't a religiously divided country so that never happened.

    In other words, imagine the Vietnam was an ongoing news item like the Palestinian/Israeli dispute.

    I seriously wonder if Iraq will be in the news in this manner for a century to come. Bush really has done you all in and guess whose second on the list.....Britain!

    ReplyDelete
  163. The MSM is gonna have to throw out their yacking points and find some NEW ones because ROVE it seems is not that smart as they played him to be,

    ReplyDelete
  164. From CNN Exit Polls
    What drove your vote?
    62% National Issues My take, this = Dem
    33% Local Issues My take, this = Republican

    and CNN said it was corruption, Iraq the economy and terrorism which drove voters, NOT good for repugs.

    ReplyDelete
  165. I hope the election is such a landslide that we have enough votes to insure our country can never be hijacked by madmen ever again. we need to make sure the Constitution is never able to be destroyed by evil power mad fools again, we need to strengthen the checks and balances and permanently weaken the exectutive branch so it can never run roughshod over the other brabches again...........................................NEVER AGAIN!!!

    ReplyDelete
  166. Worf"As are the ones in here."

    I know but ladies prefer it quieter. If you are interested in details, what put my wife off was a troll who really insulted her. I think it wasn't on this blog I'm glad to say. I'm pretty sure it was on TP as they have some vicious people on that site. That hammered the final nail in the coffin so to speak.

    ReplyDelete
  167. You sure you're not just being polite Gary?

    I know this blog used to get pretty foul there, and I played along for a while. We were like 9th graders, seeing who could make the more foul insults. I bet she saw some of that and decided it was too much.

    We've toned it down quite a bit though, so except for a few of the worst trolls, no more than a profanity or two.

    And the occasional maternal reference or two. :D

    ReplyDelete
  168. Found this comment on Firedoglake,

    Drudge has no exit poll stuff up. That can’t be good for him.

    Interesting, very interesting.

    ReplyDelete
  169. BG I can understand your disdain and distrust for Blair, no one likes a leader that defies the will of the people, But what Bush did in America is all together different, it is on a different plane and FAR worse, he not only defied the will of the people, he lied to them and tried to destroy our constitution and turn us into a Nazi Police state, I dont think Blair tried to destroy your freedom and way of life and seize ultimate power, I think he was guilty of being Bush's stooge and ignoring the will of the British people.

    ReplyDelete
  170. Mike I am sure that BG could explain it much better than me, but from what I read, Blair was about destroying civil right there as BUSH HAS BEEN HERE.

    ReplyDelete
  171. Clif, I know no entire country is in lockstep now. There never has been, Hitler had plenty of political opposers too.

    Worf"True. But the problem is to the rest of the world, we are all still just Americans."

    Exactly. Most people just don't bother to differentiate you because they do not understand you and don't want to. Now more than ever people couldn't care less about you. All of you. It's so damned UNFAIR, especially for me as I talk to people like yourselves and I get fed up, REALLY fed up hearing all the crap about how ALL Americans 'are' here in Britain.

    I argue in your favour but it just seems to go in one ear and straight out the other.

    Your reputation is so bad people don't want to know anything about you. Thay just want to avoid you. And they're going to tell their kids about whose fault all of this was when it features in the news decades into the future.

    The best thing you can do is;

    1. GET RID OF JOHN BOLTON bejeezus he is almost as bad as Bush.

    2. MSM HIGH PROFILE LOADS OF CASES WHERE YOU ARE TAKING BACK AMERICA

    3. DOCUMENTARIES LIKE MICHAEL MOORE SHOWING HOW YOU ALL FOUGHT AND HOW YOU WERE BEING BROWBEATEN AT THE TIME

    4. Keep showing 2 and 3.

    5. HOLLYWOOD FILMS SHOWING DETAILED FACTUAL CASE STUDIES OF PEOPLE LIKE CYNDI SHEEHAN

    6. Air your laundry. Let everyone see how much you tried and for how long.

    7. APOLOGISE.

    ReplyDelete
  172. The NUMBERS from the exit polls of what is driving voters;

    42% — corruption in Washington

    40% — terrorism

    39% — the economy

    37% — Iraq (57% disapprove, 41% approve)

    ReplyDelete
  173. Exit polling on Senate (from America Votes):

    Virginia (52-47)
    Rhode Island (53-46)
    Pennsylvania (57-42)
    Ohio (57-43)
    New Jersey (52-45)
    Montana (53-46)
    Missouri (50-48)
    Maryland (53-46)

    Republicans leading:

    Tennessee (51-48)
    Arizona (50-46)

    ReplyDelete
  174. If the exit poll numbers are right< it looks like much more than a normal six year election.

    ReplyDelete
  175. BTW guys, if the dems look like they are winning, fill your tanks tonight.

    ReplyDelete
  176. British Gary said...
    Now more than ever people couldn't care less about you.


    Believe me I know.

    I knew this early on when Bush gave his "with uzz or agynst uzzz" speech and put so many countries we were trying to maintain diplomatic relations with on his "Axis of Evil".

    That night Bush made himself the sole "decider" of what was Good, and what was Evil.

    I KNEW that type of rhetoric would not sit well with the international community, of which we are a part of.

    ReplyDelete
  177. Gas just might suddenly go up with a GOP loss.

    ReplyDelete
  178. I hope this election sends a message loud and clear that Americans are sick and tired of the lies,coruption and dirty "Smear and Fear" election politics, I hope Rove never works again after this election because the American people tell him loud and clear they are sick and tired of his dirty slimy tactics.

    ReplyDelete
  179. What scares me is I predicted the day Bush took office, and I mean like it just came out of my mouth, before I knew ANYTHING about Bushy or his bullshit, I just blurted out, "this man will start World War 3".

    I hope I am not a prophet.

    ReplyDelete
  180. Those senate numbers are surprisingly looking really good.

    ReplyDelete
  181. Hey guys. Notice there are NO trolls in here today?

    What does that tell you?

    ReplyDelete
  182. Tells me that they're all busy making harrassing phone calls to democrats, intimidating democrat voters and sending democrats to the wrong polling centers.

    ReplyDelete
  183. Worfeus, I have read stories around the net which say between election day and Christmas Bush either will attack Iran directly or give Israel the green light to do so, and back them when Iran responded

    ReplyDelete
  184. Worf said "Hey guys. Notice there are NO trolls in here today?

    What does that tell you?"

    they are all sulking in the loser lounge, wonder if Troll Tex is picking up the tab for drinks so they can drown their sorrow.

    ReplyDelete
  185. Mike,

    Great Scott Blair has been doing the same here!

    He's been following Bush's example since day 1.

    You are right Clif, obviously you've been following what's been happening over here a bit.

    Blair has increased our detention times, removed our legal right to have legal representation after we are arrested, removed our right to be told why we are under arrest in the first place (sound familiar?), crippled our Army, wasted a fortune, introduced 'ASBOS' (Anti-Social Behaviour Orders) which are regularly used to stop innocent teenagers from seeing their friends so we are 'protected from gangs' sending those kids to prison if they don't comply with the ASBO (teenagers now see ASBOS as a badge of honour and LOADS are going to jail), increased the number of inmates to record proportions, increased taxes to the middle class by so-called 'stealth taxes' (ones you don't know about until you have to pay them), introduced a world-record number of cameras to spy on us (we now rank equal with Russia and China for being spied upon), introduced record numbers of speed cameras (more than £3 million was raised last year from fines) which the senior police Superintendent who thought up speed cameras described as "a misuse of the reason I introduced them" and "causing more accidents than preventing them because drivers suddenly brake at the trap", fervently trying to introduce biometric identity cards that store our fingerprints and genetic data, monitor wherever our cars go by automated licence plate spotters, monitor our e-mails and phone calls and even spy on our dustbins. There was a scandal where chips are placed under the lid of the wheeliebin that dustbin carts monitor to weigh how much rubbish you throw out so we can be fined if we are throwing away too much rubbish. There are hundreds of thousands of these chips and NO-ONE was told about any of this. We can no longer protest outside Parliament unless we have a permit and one young lady was arrested by SEVEN officers for peacefully holding a placard there.

    Mike I could go on and on and on.

    ReplyDelete
  186. The trolls are waiting for Drudge to post the exit poll numbers he gets under the table, too bad for them the numbers such for repugs and they will wait All night and get no good numbers to shrill about.

    ReplyDelete
  187. The Keith Olbermann and Tweety show is starting on MSNBC

    ReplyDelete
  188. clif said...
    Gas just might suddenly go up with a GOP loss.


    I know mine will. I'll be drinking lots of beer and beer always gives me gas.

    ReplyDelete
  189. clif said...
    The Keith Olbermann and Tweety show is starting on MSNBC


    Thanks Clif.

    ReplyDelete
  190. Tweety even said if the Americans throw the repug bums out it will be because it is Bush's war not theirs.

    ReplyDelete
  191. From TPM;

    Reportedly very high turnout in Virginia, Missouri, Montana, and Tennessee.

    ReplyDelete
  192. Yea. Virginia did over 60 percent!

    That spells trouble for George Allen.

    ReplyDelete
  193. I am beginning to think the trolls will be very sad before this is all over.

    ReplyDelete
  194. Noron on MSNBC just said 704 turn out in Missouri, 65% turnout in Va.

    ReplyDelete