Wednesday, October 11, 2006

IS BUSH JUST USING CHRISTIANS?

Hey everyone: Please send CARE packages to our troops. They all need our love and care. Here is a letter from one of our brave soldiers stationed in Iraq, who writes a blog called ANGER MANAGEMENT

I was worried about him, and wrote to see if he and his wife are still alive. Thank God he's okay. He wrote:

Lydia,
Yes, my wife and I are fine. We are pretty angry about the extension because what's another month and a half in an infants life without their parents. It is just too stupid. It seems like our brigade is losing people on a daily basis. My wife is the Executive Officer for the brigades Medical Support Company so she get's to see the casualties everyday, worrying whether or not I might be on the next MEDEVAC into her aid station. It doesnt seem to be getting any better.
I have not received any packages yet, but the mail takes time around here. I'll get it eventually.

Then he wrote this in the comment section here:

It doesnt seem that our presence is helping to do anything but get more American's killed or injured and for what no one knows. I know an officer who confesses to be a stalwhart NeoCon, but he asked me the other day, "What the f--- are we doing here? I just dont get it." When they've lost those people I think they have lost just about everyone. My soldiers ask me what we're doing here, and I can't tell them because I can't lie to them and I can't make disparging or "disdainful remarks" (Art. 88 UCMJ) about the President, the VP or their Cabinet members.
A lot of people are really questioning it now that we have been extended.
We know why we have to stay a little longer, but it doesnt make it any better or any safer.....At least if we were making headway it would count for something. But that begs the question what are we supposed to be making headway towards? Noone seems to know. So, I just do my job and keep my men and myself safe another 5 months and then I get to come home.
Thanks for your support
V/R
Marcus

Sometimes I wonder whether the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on or by imbeciles who really mean it. --- Mark Twain, author and humorist (1835-1910)

You can reach my Home page at: LYDIA CORNELL

Faith-Based Initiatives are another sign of corruption. We find out today, thanks to a new book, Karl Rove was the creator of the "Faith-based Inititives" and did it to trick the Christians into voting for Republicans. (More below)

Donald Trump on Donny Deutche said:

1) We need to get out of Iraq, IRAQ IS A "TOTAL DIASTER"
2) BUSH SURROUNDS HIMSELF WITH INCOMPETENT PEOPLE
3) CONDI RICE IS INCOMPETENT, SHE FLIES ALL OVER THE WORLD TALKING TO PEOPLE, AND NOTHING GETS DONE, NOTHING IS EVER ACCOMPLISHED
4) RUMMY IS A TOTAL DISASTER, COMPLETELY INCOMPETENT.
5) The country is not behind Bush and doesnt have faith in his leadership, it has never been so divisive or filled with hatred, aftere 9/11 the whole world was behind us and Bush turned it arounf and we are hated by the world.
- Donald Trump

Tempting Faith’ author David Kuo worked for Bush from 2001 to 2003 By Jonathan Larsen of MSNBC

More than five years after President Bush created the Office of Faith-Based Initiatives, the former second-in-command of that office is going public with an insider’s tell-all account that portrays an office used almost exclusively to win political points with both evangelical Christians and traditionally Democratic minorities.

The office’s primary mission, providing financial support to charities that serve the poor, never got the presidential support it needed to succeed, according to the book.

Entitled “Tempting Faith,” the book is not scheduled for release until Oct. 16, but MSNBC’s “Countdown with Keith Olbermann” has obtained a copy.

“Tempting Faith’s” author is David Kuo, who served as special assistant to the president from 2001 to 2003. A self-described conservative Christian, Kuo’s previous experience includes work for prominent conservatives including former Education Secretary and federal drug czar Bill Bennett and former Attorney General John Ashcroft.

We are investigating this despicable tax-loophole for the religious right, which enables them to work at getting the vote out for their evangelical wing. How on earth is this legal? Why are right-wing churches the only ones who benefit from this? Did they help the Katrina victims in the name of God? Funny I never heard of a single right-wing evangelical mega church helping the Katrina victims in a big way.

George Bush, God Bless him, cannot be trusted. We cannot believe a single thing he says. He is incapable of telling the truth, admitting he's wrong or taking responsibility for his mistakes. M. Scott Peck defines these types as "people of the lie." In other words, evil. By over-extending ourselves in Iraq, Bush has enabled the North Korean and Iranian dictators to arrogantly strut and flaunt nuclear threats. It's almost as if they are deliberately defying Bush and goading him. Can you imagine how powerful it would be if Bush let down his pride and conceded to just meet with Kim Ill and have a heart-to-heart talk? When you come face to face with your enemy, often you end up realizing your enemy is just a human being. It's harder to bomb someone you have had tea with. You get more flies with honey...

Bush flippantly denies a Johns-Hopkins report that says over 655,000 Iraqi civilians have been killed as a result of our "war to bring peace and stability." BUSH JUST DENIES THE INVESTIGATIVE STUDY by a prestigious university research team, Johns-Hopkins! The Pentagon has pointedly refused to count the dead (despite international law that requires any occupying military force to count its victims and pay reparations).

What a load of Orwellian doublespeak. He never once acknowledges the 300 billion dollar cost of his wonderful war. He never once stands over a coffin or attends a funeral for the public to see. And what he conveniently failed to mention in his speech today is this: that before he took office, gas prices were HALF what they are even now; the catastrophic deficit was a suprlus, and the economy was soaring. We are supposed to be grateful for the slight turnaround by big oil right before the elections.

He states that he suddenly had a change of heart: it's best to have allies. Great! Why couldn't he have realized this before invading Iraq and upsetting the balance of the entire world?

Lying through his teeth he impugned the patriotism of Democrats as "cut and run" while saying he wasn't impugning their patriotism. DEMOCRATS are far more patriotic than this administration; we demand an end to death and violence in Iraq. We cannot aford to lose any more troops. Onnly a moron would stay where we are not wanted. Let the Iraqis find their own way now.

DEMOCRATS HAVE MORAL AUTHORITY, are strong on terror, and we LOVE our troops.

And we uncover the truth about Ann Coulter like no one has ever done before at: COULTER KAMPF where you can also find breaking news about hate-speak, extremism, propaganda and smear tactics.

As Wayne Dyer says, "There's a spiritual solution to every problem." For SPIRITUAL SOLUTIONS to the world crises, along with some amazing prayer miracles in the next few weeks, please check out RADICAL PRAYER at my other blog THE PEACEMAKERS* LIGHT OF TRUTH

"We all have built into us the capacities for kindness and creativity and beauty. It's a matter of perspective. As Einstein said, "The single most important decision any of us will ever make is whether or not to believe that the universe is friendly." It's our choice.

689 comments:

  1. The Faith based initiatives program was one of the first things I ranted on in here.

    Faith based initiatives or "FBI", are the anti-thesis of our democracy. They induce favor in the government for given religions, and discrimination against others. There is no way the founding fathers ever intended for Georgy to start messing with mixing religious institutions with the White House.

    Then again the founding fathers never could have forsaw Bush.

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  2. Well, one things for sure. Christians aren't going to feel good about being "used", and the new book, Tempting Faith", is not going to help any.

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  3. I agree Worf faith based initiatives are gobbly gook BS just like trickle down economics where the rich piss on the poor and steal more of the pie for them selves.......................i've always said religion creates more problems than it solves by creating hatred and divisiveness.

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  4. And they're more than that Mike.

    They blur the seperation between church and state, and are a milestone along the path to theocracy.

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  5. We find out today, thanks to a new book, Karl Rove was the creator of the faith based inititives and did it to trick the christians into voting for them.

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  6. Thats all Rove does is trick people into voting for them, all the checks and balances the Founding Fathers built into our Constition and our system of government were designed to PREVENT people like Bush and Rove from coming to power.

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  7. Holy crap. I am just seeing this number now that apparently the Iraqi's released, that 655,000 Iraqi's have been killed due to our "liberation".

    Thats over HALF A MILLION PEOPLE.

    Holy mother of God.

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  8. thats how Bush brings Freedom and Democracy Aye?

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  9. Want to see what the Iraqi's reallly think of Bush and the American occupation of Iraq, check out this the blog listed below or this book :Baghdad Burning II: More Girl Blog from Iraq
    by Riverbend / Ridgeway, James (INT) / Casella, Jean (INT)

    The second installment of Riverbend's incisive, salty, impassioned observations from war-torn Baghdad.Baghdad Burning (2005) is a collection of blog postings by a 24-year-old, middle-class Iraqi woman who calls herself Riverbend. This sequel picks up the story in October 2004-before the world knew that Americans would re-elect George Bush. Just before the election, Riverhead prophesies that should Bush return to the White House, life would worsen not only for Iraqis, but also for Americans, whose national image is "tarnished world-wide." Indeed, much of this is devoted to Riverbend's fury about the American occupation of Iraq. She bluntly says that although Iraqis felt sympathy when the Twin Towers collapsed, "9/11 is getting old." The author suggests the war has moved into a different phase-now, instead of being assaulted with smart missiles, Iraqis are besieged by American media, by television and radio reports that are deceptively sanitized. She tartly notes the vagaries and obfuscations of political speech, and she has little patience for the euphemistic lingua franca of war: "What exactly are precision attacks?" she pleads, after Colin Powell and Donald Rumsfeld invoke the phrase. "How can you be precise in a city like Samarra or in the slums of Sadir City?" Throughout all her political analysis, Riverbend sprinkles reminders of the day-to-day realties of life in Baghdad-the water problems, the lack of electricity, the daily explosions near her home, the endless gasoline queues. Riverbend's musings will make it impossible for readers to hold on to some cardboard cutout notion of "an Iraqi." Here is a practicing Muslim woman who disdains suicide bombers but understands how people are driven to such extremes, who can't stand the fundamentalist leadership of Iran, who simply wants Iraq to be stable, prosperous and peaceful.Bracing, and sure to be controversial, this is a unique and essential record of our times.

    The distinctive voice of pseudonymous Riverbend shines through this continuation of her blog, from October 2004 through March 2006 (2005's Baghdad Burning won a Lettre Ulysses Award for the Art of Literary Reportage). Now 27, she offers an invaluable description of life in a middle-class, secular, mixed Shia-Sunni family. Alternating reports of attacks seen on TV and raids in her neighborhood with the mundane details of fuel shortages and infrequent electricity and water, Riverbend also offers astute analysis of the Iraqi draft constitution and American media, widely available through Iraqi TV and the Internet (her suggestion for a reality show: "Take 15 Bush supporters and throw them in a house in Fallujah"). She emphasizes how gender has become an issue when it never was before, e.g., election forms are all stamped "male." Riverbend's dry wit leavens her anger: after watching the 2006 Oscar ceremonies on TV, she proposes Iraqi Oscars ("Ahmed Al-Chalabi in 'Disappearing Act' for his magnificent evaporation from the Iraqi political scene"). Throughout, the blog insists that most Iraqis are tolerant; prefer secular to religious government; fear civil war; and vehemently want the occupation to end. (Riverbend's blog continues at riverbendblog.blogspot.com.)

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  10. nother interesting book:Talking Right: How the Right turned Liberalism into a Tax-Raising, Latte-Drinking, Sushi-Eating, Volvo-Driving, New York Times Reading, Body Piercing, Hollywood Loving.....
    by Nunberg, Geoffrey

    Nunberg (Sch. of Information, Univ. of California, Berkeley; Going Nucular ) more narrowly focuses on how the Right has taken control of the common political language to move our national politics steadily toward the conservative point of view. Words with powerful symbolic meaning, such as patriotism and terrorism , have been appropriated by conservatives and used skillfully to further their political agenda. As an example, Nunberg notes how the word elite has been narrowed to describe more liberal sectors of society, such as academics or the media, rather than referring to corporate or military leaders who exercise real power. This hijacking of the language is tied to the Right's powerful use of storytelling, going back to the 1960s and then epitomized by Ronald Reagan. Nunberg argues that for Democrats to return to power they must take back the language and tell stories that engage listeners.

    Nunberg, a professor of linguistics and columnist for the New York Times, believes that Democrats are at a loss for words when it comes to the use of political language. As the Democrats feebly argue that they must "reframe" their arguments to reach voters, Nunberg (Going Nucular) believes that "what we have here is more than just a failure to communicate." Though conservatives have gained political ground using loaded terms such as "death tax" for estate tax, "climate change" for global warming and "hate speech" for any criticism of the president or fellow Republicans, their true triumph is more subtle, hijacking the "core vocabulary of American political discourse"-like "values" and "elite"-and using them to Republicans' exclusive advantage. Nunberg insists that liberals cannot model their strategy after GOP successes, though he offers little in the way of practical strategy. Though the phrase "politics of perception" has been overused-and therefore, as Nunberg might argue, rendered empty of meaning-Nunberg proves in this thoughtful, funny and rousing effort that the use and misuse of language is still of vital concern to the body politic. (July)

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  11. The Reich Wing has turned the Words Patriotism and liberal into dirty words in our society with their lies, deceptions and unsubstantiated rhetoric they attempt to pass off as facts.

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  12. Lets see now we have had an Iraqi woman who is IN IRAQ say it is a disaster and she wants the occupation to end and we have had an American soldier, a TRUE PATRRIOT not the phonuy reich wing chickenhawk kind who is also IN IRAQ say it is a senseless war and a disaster accomplishing nothing but lining the pockets of the wealthy elite....................then we have Bush and his incompetentent sidekicks and cronnies who have a clear vested political and financial interest in justifying and keeping this endless war going who ARE NOT IN IRAQ misleading the American people about what is REALLY going on over there.........................truly pathetic!

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  13. Dude. If that number, 655,000 is even CLOSE to being correct, then holy shit.

    We did a bad thing.

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  14. I hope we never get "liberated".

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  15. Donald Trump is on Donny Deutche, Trump just said

    1) We need to get out of Iraq, IRAQ IS A "TOTAL DIASTER"

    2) BUSH SURROUNDS HIMSELF WITH INCOMPETENT PEOPLE

    3) CONDI RICE IS INCOMPETENT, SHE FLIES ALL OVER THE WORLD TALKING TO PEOPLE, AND NOTHING GETS DONE, NOTHING IS EVER ACCOMPLISHED

    4) RUMMY IS A TOTAL DISASTER, COMPLETELY INCOMPETENT.

    5) The country is not behind Bush and doesnt have faith in his leadership, it has never been so divisive or filled with hatred, aftere 9/11 the whole world was behind us and Bush turned it arounf and we are hated by the world.

    Donald Trump

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  16. thats sad Worf, that number could hit 1 million if the civil war escalates.

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  17. Donald Trump- the next person who comes to power in iraq will make Saddam Hussein look like a Nice guy thanks to Bush's incompetent Blunder.

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  18. The Dems have to win the Senate, no one could POSSIBLY support the repugs after the complete mess theve made of things, everything is a mess, not just iraq or Foley, they ruin everything they touch.

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  19. Sad Mike? My dog dying was sad. 655,000 people dead is a global tragedy.

    655,000 people dying is a holocaust.

    I know what you meant, I am just saying, damn. We are talking about genocide.

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  20. Sorry. Thats the first I've heard that figure, and it just clobbered me.

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  21. I am surprised the international community has sat still this long.

    Bush's war. More than half a million people dead, because Bush had thought he knew better than everyone else.

    Son of a bitch.

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  22. Worf, I hate to say this because 'm just as appalled and disgusted as you about what has and is still going on, but I have a feeling when the Dems take controll of congress and the hearings and investigations start we will all be horrified at what comes out because it can no longer be classified or surpressed, I am sure what we are hearing now is only the tip of the iceberg, Bush and his cronnies need to be tried for war crimes and treason, and all the damage he has done to our Constitution, freedom and our nternational reputation needs to be repaired.

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  23. it's not just the Iraqi innocent men, women, children and infants either, I wonder what the real numbers of troops killed and injured are?

    I don't know if it's true, but a long time ago I read a report about injured troops being removed from Iraq so they don't count in the 'killed in Iraq' figures. I only took the report credibly because I know Governments go to incredible lengths to propagandise.

    The Brit General (Dannatt) in charge of our troops in Iraq has just said we need to get out soon. I came across this comment from a friend of his on a British blog;

    I retired from the Army in January after 36 years and have known Richard Dannat since we were Officer Cadets at Sandhurst together.
    The fact is that the Army is totally overstretched. The planning for any operational commitment from our political masters is 3 times the force required:
    one force package in theatre, one that has just returned, and the third training to take over. The planned operational tour interval, which all soldiers are promised, is 24 months. For all infantry battalions it is currently 8-10 months.
    General Mike Jackson was specifically told by Geoff Hoon that he was not allowed to use the word overstretch when he announced the defence cuts in 2004 - the same day that the First Sea Lord and the Chief of the Air Staff refused to give a single interview to the media. The Top Brass have been gagged.
    The reality is that the Armed Forces, and in particularly the Army, are far too small to meet their current commitments. Therefore operational tours come around too soon, soldiers are voting with their feet and leaving, recruiting is very tight for unpopular wars and the essential training that maintains the standard to which the British public have become accustomed is falling. There is a dangerous
    threat of a downwards spiral.
    This is the background to Richard's comments that there will not be an Army in 5 years time. He is right.
    As you are well aware politicians have a 4 year horizon, and frankly they do not care for anything other than winning the next election. Soldiers have a far longer perspective upon life and the dangers our nation may face.
    As a servant to the nation, whose oath of allegiance is to HM The Queen, the Head of State and the Armed Forces, and not an elected politician, Richard is absolutely correct to highlight the very grave concerns that he has about the potential damage that the current overstretch is causing to the nations defences - particularly if the Government of the day are ignoring the advice that he and the other Chiefs of Staff might be giving.
    An error? A misunderstanding of the political fall out from this interview? I do not think so. Richard is a very intelligent man who has spent sufficient time working around politicians to know exactly what he was saying. The key thing is that he is a man of principal, and will stand up for the men and women of today’s Armed Forces who have been overused and abused by a government who does not understand the military and has done so much in the last 9 years to subvert their military ethos, while happily riding on the coat tails of the Army's successes on the world stage.
    The reality is that there are large numbers of the Labour Government, led by Gordon Brown, who do not understand the military and are very jealous indeed of the public's very high regard that they have for their Armed Forces.

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  24. So BG your military is as broken as ours is, have they lowered standards so convicted felons, older people and "ex"-drug abusers can join now also?

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  25. The Cynicism of Christianism

    The use and abuse of religion is at the core of the corruption of the current Republican party. I know I've been saying this for a while now, but here's someone who knows it from the inside. David Kuo worked for the Bush administration's Office of Faith-Based Initiatives from 2001 to 2003. Like John DiIulio, he realized eventually that it was all about politics and using the faith of evangelicals to maintain the political power of Republicans. Money quote:

    [Kuo] says some of the nation's most prominent evangelical leaders were known in the office of presidential political strategist Karl Rove as 'the nuts.'

    "National Christian leaders received hugs and smiles in person and then were dismissed behind their backs and described as 'ridiculous,' 'out of control,' and just plain 'goofy,'" Kuo writes.

    More seriously, Kuo alleges that then-White House political affairs director Ken Mehlman knowingly participated in a scheme to use the office, and taxpayer funds, to mount ostensibly 'nonpartisan' events that were, in reality, designed with the intent of mobilizing religious voters in 20 targeted races.

    According to Kuo, "Ken loved the idea and gave us our marching orders." Among those marching orders, Kuo says, was Mehlman's mandate to conceal the true nature of the events.

    Kuo quotes Mehlman as saying, "... [I]t can't come from the campaigns. That would make it look too political. It needs to come from the congressional offices. We'll take care of that by having our guys call the office [of faith-based initiatives] to request the visit."


    Memo to faithful evangelicals: you get entangled with Caesar and you'll regret it. Conflate politics with religion and you do mortal damage to both.

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  26. Clif, military standards have been lowered here too. I went to a shopping complex a few days ago and military recruiters were out in force. They bring helicopters and flashy equipment and place them in prominent positions around the shops/open spaces with recruiting sergeants and huge signs.
    I openly laughed as people were completely blanking the military. It seems desperate times call for desperate measures and these measures are being resolutely ignored. The crowds were behaving as though the military were invisible to them. I loved it.

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  27. BG, the same is going on here at college campuses,they bring motorcycles and helicopters, and do everything they can to attract attention they even force and/or accept people with drug, alcohol or psychological problems with the offer o avoiding jail.

    I wonder if the rich would support this war if

    1) their kids were dying or being permanently injured or disabled

    2) if they had to pay for the war by giving back their big tax cut from Bush.

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  28. Mike/Clif, although standards have lowered, the military here are not as severe as you both describe. Yet.

    I remember Michael Moore in Faren. 9/11 petitioning senators to see if they have, or would encourage, their kids in Iraq. Strangely they were all reticent to speak with him.

    As far as I'm aware, none of the Windsors are in Iraq, none of Blairs children are near Iraq and as usual, the Welsh/Scots platoons were the first ones sent in. Politicians are the worst of humanity and bring out the worst in all of us.

    I sort of met Bill Clinton once, he was in a podium in Portsmouth during a naval display with red arrows flying overhead. I was stood quite close to him and the air force made the big mistake of playing the commands from the squadron leader over huge loudspeakers to the crowd. When the squad. leader spoke, he did so with an awfully affected accent. Now you don't know this but I have a very loud and contagious laugh, I make audiences laugh when I laugh at the cinema. When I heard the command "thray, toooo, hawone, nayoooow" at 100 decibels I gave it my loudest laugh ever. Involuntarily I looked straight at Bill Clinton as I laughed and because of the volume of my laugh he looked straight back and to this day I remember the great grin on his face as he was rocking back and forth laughing with me, looking at each other. I also set the crowd off (again).

    From this encounter and what I knew of Bill and his policies back then, I thought fondly of him and respected him. I remember thinking there are decent politicians after all. Then he gets a blowjob in the WH, then lies about it repeatedly while wearing one of the ties from Monica Lewinsky, i.e. to rub it in.
    He chose to behave immorally.

    I know people compare what the world now has with what the world once had and most wish Bill was back in power, I agree, the world would be far better today if Bush had never got in. But the fact remains it seems there are no politicians who can behave themselves and truly listen to their people and do their bidding. I disdain at times.

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  29. Sorry BG, but I just don't see what Monica had to do with the Presidency.

    Last time I checked, a Presidents personal sexual life is no ones business but his, and his wifes.

    I don't abide busy body's, and unless Monica was a minor, then he had every right to lie to a nosy gossiping public.

    Every right.

    I'd have told everyone to fuck off if it had been me.

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  30. When they asked me under oath if I had put my penis in her mouth, I would've said no, but I did put it in your mommas.

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  31. Real simple British Gary, ther secret service did not have to stop Hillary from braining Bill, so it is NOBODY elses business, but the hypocritical repugs and the "religious" leaders who kneepad to them are way OFF base when they claim that ground, especially after trying to pass off the Foley scandal. Their reaction to this scandal is PROOF of the Hypocrites they all are.

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  32. I mostly agree with you Worf, the only reason I disagree in part is because he had this sexual encounter in the WH. If he'd separated business from pleasure, it would have remained a private issue.
    But he chose not to, he was immoral in a public office - I would be sacked if I did that at work, but not if I had an affair in that manner at home. Why should we hold political leaders to lower standards than we hold ourselves?

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  33. Sorry for my lewdness, but imagine how Bill Clinton felt? I mean, when did the "Scarlet Letter" society take over?

    When did consensual sex between two adults become the governments business, or the publics for that matter?

    How in Gods name was ANYONE wronged by Bill Clintons private affair with Monica Lewinsky, other than his family? Huh?

    How?

    It was NO ONES BUSINESS, but the self righteous pious hypocrites sought to exploit it, and made it their business, costing the taxpayer MILLIONS and MILLIONS to investigate something that impacted NONE OF US.

    Pious hypocrites are the ugliest of all humans.

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  34. exactly, what clinton did was not anyone's busines but himself, his wife and monica, while it might not have been moral to commit adultry, it was certainly not illegal, and at this point since many of us particularly politicians are far from perfect, I will take a smart president who occasionally has a small lapse of moral judgement with another consenting adult of legal age to a stupid president with no conscience or morals who defies the constitution and any law he doesnt agree with and who commits illegal act after illegal act that compromises our safety, our freedoms and democracy, our military supremacy and has the blood of close to approaching 1 million people on his hands with his illegal war of choice, and his penchant for torture.

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  35. BG said;

    I disagree in part is because he had this sexual encounter in the WH.

    So? You've never tasted a luv biscuit at work?

    You've never slipped into the copy room with the receptionist for a little thumb wrestling match?

    Give me a break.

    If we are going to be a prude society of snooping busy bodies and gossips, then fine, point me to the exit and I'm outa here.

    In the meantime, lets all admit humans are sexual creatures, and personal business, personal matters between two adults, are their business and their business alone.

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  36. If Clinton was throwing orgies with midgets in the China Room I could care less, as long as he was getting his work done.

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  37. Exactly Clif, there must be a moral standard that is applicable to all. Presidents, public and civil servants.

    If anyone crosses the line they must be sacked immediately. My boss would have me escorted off site if I behaved like Bill behaved at work. I'd have my boss, or any of my staff escorted off site if they behaved like Bill did at work. However if anyone has an affair at home it's entirely their business and I've supported/councilled my staff for these things in the past. You know, when people are normally moral and they don't behave like that at work but sometimes bring their domestic problems to work with them becuase they are genuinely upset, things have gone wrong and they're just being human.

    The rethugs should have frogmarched Foley straight out until he was out of sight.

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  38. Worf, he did lie about it - but the DNA on the blue dress ruined his scheme.

    This was a sexual harrassement suit brought by Paula Jones. She had every right to sue on that basis, and her attorneys had every right to ask him if he had had other dalliances with staff, to prove whether this was his pattern or "signature," and he lied there as well (both under oath and to a federal judge). If you ask me, he got what he deserved. If want to play around with the staff, just hope and pray they don't sue. For someone who others laud as be being so smart, he was pretty stupid to lie when his lie might be exposed.

    In addition, what does this say for women's rights in the workplace when their hero wanted to trample on the rights of Paula Jones.

    Worf, if you ever get into the same jam, I hope you don't follow your own advice and commit perjury.

    BTW, Air America just filed chapter 11. How pitiful.

    Hey, Larry, any luck in finding my IP address like you promised two days ago?

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  39. On the other hand a President who takes a vacation every other week is a public concern, yet the persnickity public (or should I say "pubic"?) is more concerned about 15 minutes of afternoon delight in the Oval Office, than they are with a President who seldom bothers to show up for work.

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  40. I agree with you BG, that having an afair in the WH was a lapse of judgement, it is on a whole different plane from the repugs defending, covering for and enabling a child molestor that preys on children just so they can cling to power.

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  41. Inbred Hypocrite said;


    Worf, he did lie about it - but the DNA on the blue dress ruined his scheme.


    So what you inbred backwater self righteous pious busybody?

    So freaking what.

    Like I said, if you'd asked me under oath whether I put my cock in her mouth, I would've told you no, but your mom seemed to like it.

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  42. You strain at a gnat, and swallow a camel pal.

    You and all the busy bodie pious hypocrites can burn in hell for a thousand years for all I care.

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  43. Worf, I've NEVER behaved like that at work, even when my wife worked on the same site as I did for a brief while. There are some things you just keep at home. Some things you don't bring to work with you.

    Moralising about the relativistic damage from a blowjob to an illegal war does not avoid an immoral act at work and does not excuse it. Either we hold certain moral values in society or we don't. If we don't, we're being no better than the repugs.

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  44. And as for Paula Jones?

    Give me a break.

    She was a money grubbing tramp, who put out for gain, then was pissed when she realized he wasn't divorcing Brun Hilda.

    Idiot.

    ReplyDelete
  45. Clinton was NEVER convicted of doing anything to Paula jones you lying troll, you are a dumb as dirt hippocrite who quibble about Nixon resigning to avoid impeachment but throw out an allegation against Clinton that he was never convicted of.........crawl back under your rock troll, and dont you worry about your IP........YET!!!!

    ReplyDelete
  46. Worfeus TT is MAD because Bill was getting a blowjob from a grown woman while the GOP had to resort to chasing pages.........LOL

    ReplyDelete
  47. Gary YOU DO NOT GET IT, Hillary made peace with it . And IT IS NOBODY ELSES BUSINESS,

    NOBODY else includes you.

    ReplyDelete
  48. Paula Jones now thats a credible source, didnt she box Tonya Harding on Pay Per View because she was willing to do anything or anyone for money. BTW, didnt the blond bubblehead moron Coulter also represent Paula Jones.......yeah there wasno biasor conflict of interest there, that suit was also allegedly funded by Scaife.

    ReplyDelete
  49. Moral to WHO BG?

    I mean, when did we become a totalitarian Christian "scarlet letter" society?

    Who defines morality?

    Sex is a personal matter, and only those who base their morality on biblical or other scriptural reference seem to have a problem with it.

    ReplyDelete
  50. I don't care where he was, IT is between Hillary and Bill, and of course Monica. and TT your just a repug hypocrite, and come Noivermber you have ALOT to worry about.

    Speaker Pelosi for one son.

    ReplyDelete
  51. whats the matta Troll Tex running away so soon when your hippocritical BS gets shot down by the truth or did you get an IM from Mark Foley or an under age boy?

    ReplyDelete
  52. And the house judiciary committee with Chairman John Coyners for TWO,

    Enjoy the NEW year a commin boy.

    ReplyDelete
  53. the repugs are just jealous and upset because the only way they can get a BJ from a woman (not an under age boy) is to pay for it!

    ReplyDelete
  54. The froggmarching will be quite refreshing........

    The GOP will look good in orange jumpsuits.

    You assclowns should adopt it as a party color so you can claim it is just a make over, not really all convictions.

    ReplyDelete
  55. The New years song will be

    "Bye Bye the Repuglican Lie."

    ReplyDelete
  56. clif said...
    I don't care where he was, IT is between Hillary and Bill, and of course Monica.


    AMEN Clif!

    Who CARES? As long as he gets his work done, who cares?

    Bush on the other hand doesn't even do his job. Doesn't that strike anyone as IMMORAL?

    ReplyDelete
  57. Remember in "Dirty Harry, Magnum Force", when Clint Eastwood said to his partner, "If they could shoot like that I wouldn't care if the entire police force was queer for each other".?

    Remember that line? We all laughed. Why? Because it rings true.

    Serious men and women are not concerned with human sexuality, as long as it does not involve minors.

    Serious men and women are concerned with one thing, and one thing alone.

    Getting the job done.

    ReplyDelete
  58. 655,000 people didnt die as a result of Clintons optionalchoices either and just think about this if 655,000 are dead, can you even imagine how many are severely injured or permanently disabled.

    ReplyDelete
  59. And Bill Clinton got the job done.


    Bush on the other hand rarely shows up for work at all.

    And when he does, the results are worse than if he hadn't.

    ReplyDelete
  60. I have to disagree with you Clif, I do get it.

    I hold that our political masters must behave as they preach. Full stop. None of them say it's OK to have blowjobs at WORK. Therefore it's not OK for them to have blowjobs at WORK.

    Hillary forgave him, great, he's got an incredibly understanding wife. But it still holds true that he brought his affair to WORK. That makes all the difference in the world. HOME and WORK. The two are not the same.

    I understand that if he had this affair strictly at home the repugs would still have launched a witch hunt (which under those circumstances would have been wrong).

    As for nobody else's business, because he brought his affair to WORK with him, he gave far greater ammunition to the far right who used it to demonise him, unfairly try to impeach him and following this debacle Al Gore only just won the election by a wafer thin majority. Then the repugs steal the election via the supreme court then go to war, drag my country into the war because of our 'special relationship' and now I'm at war. A war i never wanted, marched against in London and am still fighting. That blowjob was the first domino that toppled ever greater ones.

    ReplyDelete
  61. Mike said;
    and just think about this if 655,000 are dead, can you even imagine how many are severely injured or permanently disabled.


    MILLIONS.

    ReplyDelete
  62. BTW, Worfeus how is the news they found a court record about an arrest record for George Felix Allen from 73-74 time frame for possibly stuffing a dears head in a African-Americans mailbox going over in Virginia?

    ReplyDelete
  63. And I'm not saying Bill is responsible for the war on 'terra' before anybody suggests anything like that. The rethugs are, entirely.

    I'm saying one small immoral act enabled others to come to power who think nothing of genocide.

    ReplyDelete
  64. say what you want about Clinton, but he was a smart man and a good man, and if he was president today we would not be in such a mess, the world would not be in such a mess,Clinton would not have ruined our reputation and made the world a much more dangerous place, a presidents job is creating sound policy and providing strong leadership, Bush has not created any sound policy and is the most divisive dividing and polarizing force inspriring worldwide hatred I have EVER SEEN!

    ReplyDelete
  65. Clinton, in some respects, is a total idiot. Just a few years after the OJ trial which showcased DNA, he ejaculates all over Monica's blue dress and thinks that his DNA is special. Moron

    ReplyDelete
  66. I guess we have to ask ourselves, "do we want certain codes of conduct while at work?"

    If the answers 'yes', having a blowjob with a mistress in the WH is not the same as a private blowjob with a mistress at home. It becomes public because he defiled the sanctity of the WH.

    The irony is, Bushco have defiled it far, far worse.

    ReplyDelete
  67. TT, in ALL respects, is a total idiot.

    ReplyDelete
  68. BG said;

    As for nobody else's business, because he brought his affair to WORK with him, he gave far greater ammunition to the far right who used it to demonise him,

    Sorry gary it was NOT their business, and they should have kept their nosesd out of Bill's private lives and 16 year ols boys crotches.




    unfairly try to impeach him and following this debacle Al Gore only just won the election by a wafer thin majority. Then the repugs steal the election via the supreme court then go to war, drag my country into the war because of our 'special relationship' and now I'm at war. A war i never wanted, marched against in London and am still fighting. That blowjob was the first domino that toppled ever greater ones.

    and the rest of this is just proof it was NOT their business, especially after they hypocritical wayt they treated a true threat to society, a child predator they coddled for YEARS.

    ReplyDelete
  69. Mike, I agree entirely. We shared a laugh together, I felt then he was a decent guy. He was and still is intelligent and a humanitarian. Infinitely superior to Bush et al.

    That's why I was so disappointed to find out he'd been immoral at WORK.

    I'm an atheist and I believe that you just don't cross certain lines. I don't need religion to hold a set of moral values. It's a matter of professionalism and upholding a code of conduct.

    ReplyDelete
  70. And TT shows HIS hypocrisy daily, here because he still wants to be jealous about a blowjob he didn't get. He just is jealous of the person Bill is and Georgie will NEVER be, a truly competent politician who actually does good for the country not just his cronies and sycophantic clown posse. TT has NO Morals at all other wise he would not be trying to divert attention to the ONBLY thing he has. A consensual sex act between tow adults. To divert attention from the FACT that at least one and possibly two repugs were diddling 16 year old pages, and the rest of the GOP coddled them and HID the facts from everybody else.

    ReplyDelete
  71. Ejaculator said...

    Clinton, in some respects, is a total idiot.


    You in ALL respects, are an idiot.

    ReplyDelete
  72. Good day, Bob Ney pleaded GUILTY today, first repug congressman in the Abramoff scandal to fall, too bad for them their is an even worse scandal to divert attention, so he has refused to resign yet, and Denny (the cover up of child predators) Hastert does not have the political capital to force him out yet. Must suck to be a clown in a position he has no clue how to manage the numerous scandals that surround the repugs today.

    ReplyDelete
  73. Clif, that's not proof it's not their business, its proof of republican hypocrisy, nothing more.
    Those were the factual, historical consequences of Bill's actions. I'm damn sure if Bill had any idea where that blowjob would lead he'd have treated Lewinsky like the plague.

    I'm sorry it happened too, but I won't justify one minor immoral act by comparing it to far, far greater ones by others.

    An immoral act remains an immoral act. Either you hold a consistent stance or you are being hypocritical, motivated by partisan politics.

    ReplyDelete
  74. s Nancy Pelosi as speaker of the House Sound, when SHE starts to clean up all the repugs scandals Denny Hastert has IGNORED?

    ReplyDelete
  75. if Bush had a blowjob in the WH from Ann Coulter, would you all insist it's none of your business or would you demand Bush's resignation?

    ReplyDelete
  76. British Gary said...

    I guess we have to ask ourselves, "do we want certain codes of conduct while at work?"


    That all sounds well and good, but this is the White House, not Walmart.

    We just don't belong poking around in a Presidents personal life too much, as long as he is not breaking any laws.

    And last time I checked, oral sex between two consenting adults, breaks no laws whatsoever.

    On the other hand, Bush has broken dozens of laws, including the ones to which he swore allegiance.

    ReplyDelete
  77. British Gary said...

    if Bush had a blowjob in the WH from Ann Coulter, would you all insist it's none of your business or would you demand Bush's resignation?


    Am I not being clear here or something?

    Absolutely I would insist it was none of our business!

    NONE OF OUR BUSINESS.

    ReplyDelete
  78. I see Mike and Worf, the butt-buddies of this blog are back spewing their self-righteous BULLSHIT!!!

    ReplyDelete
  79. In fact, I'd applaud it.

    A blow job is just what this guys needs to get his brain working again.

    ReplyDelete
  80. No son I am not being inconsistent, we have different ideas of what MORAL means.

    I do not try to fit others in my world view, and Hillary IS the only person who can say it was Immoral, because if she and Bill have an OPEN marriage, then Bill committed no sin, because it is not for me to judge.

    So if Bill was decrying others for actions he was committing then I would have a problem, but that is not the case, but the opposite, the repugs were the ones who were being HYPOCRITES, Bob Livingston, who resigned from the house when it was exposed he did what he attacked Bill for. Henry Hyde who did the same before Bill destroyed a marriage because of it, but went ahead to attack Bill with out being HONEST about his own actions.

    that is why Jesus stated yea with out the sin....which repug hypocrites totally ignored.

    They were throwing a lot of stones with out the moral base to do so.

    ReplyDelete
  81. Of course, when Bush sees that Adams Apple on her, he might freak out, but still.

    ReplyDelete
  82. Worf,

    The last time I checked the BIBLE it tells me that ADULTERY is a mortal sin.

    I guess you stupidass hillbillies don't know your ass from a hole in the ground, with all that inbreeding in the state of virginny

    ReplyDelete
  83. BG, I know you're a good guy, and I believe you have the right intentions, but morality when it comes to sexuality, is subjective.

    Your "morals" are clearly based on typical judeo-christian morality, and thats fine.

    But there are plenty of people that have different morals when it comes to sexuality.

    There are some morals that are absolute. But sexuality between two consenting adults is not among them.

    ReplyDelete
  84. And then there were two? The Justice Department is "looking into allegations" relating to a rafting trip that Rep. Jim Kolbe (R-AZ) took with two Congressional pages in 1996.
    -- Paul Kiel


    This could break the Foley scandal wide open, because if a second repug congressman was guilty of Foley's illegalk activities of going after minors, then the cover-up is gonna haunt them for a LONG LONG time.

    And this gives the repugs less of an out because Foley wanted to retire like Kolbe, because both knew the scandal would haunt them all year and could break at any time.

    Too bad for the repugs KKKarl played for one too many seats!

    EH TINY?

    ReplyDelete
  85. Worf,

    You don't even know what a b---job is!

    ReplyDelete
  86. When I was a young man, we had a "new morality" here in the states.

    It was propogated with the saying "Make Love, Not WAR".

    And personally, I find THAT morality to be vastly superior to anything I have seen since.

    ReplyDelete
  87. Worf, I honestly think most Dems would not have the same opinion as you if Bush had a blowjob with a mistress in private, let alone in the WH. It would be all over the headlines, on every news program, the daily show and every progressive blog would run it relentlessly. Because what happens in the WH is public knowledge. The public are supposed to control it.

    A greater immoral act does not excuse a lesser.

    You wrote 'A blow job is just what this guys needs to get his brain working again.'
    LOL! But it'll take more than that!

    ReplyDelete
  88. Federal prosecutors in Arizona have opened a preliminary investigation of a camping trip Congressman Jim Kolbe, R-Ariz., took 10 years ago that included two teenage congressional pages, a Justice Department spokesman told NBC News.

    A spokesman for the Justice Department in Washington said that the U.S. attorney in Arizona has started a "preliminary assessment" of the trip, after an unidentified source made allegations about the congressman's behavior on the expedition. . . .

    One participant, who requested anonymity, said he was uncomfortable with the attention Kolbe paid to one of the former pages. He was "creeped out by it," he said, adding that there was a lot of "fawning, petting and touching" on the teenager's arms, shoulders and back by Kolbe. . . .

    Kolbe's office issued a statement to NBC News denying that anything improper had happened. "The rafting trip back in 1996 consisted of five current staff, two former pages, and his sister," a spokeswoman for Kolbe said. "There is absolutely no basis and no truth to any [allegations of] inappropriate behavior."

    Looks like the fat lady is gonna sing a funeral dirge for the repugs desire of perpetual power.

    ReplyDelete
  89. British Gary said...
    Worf, I honestly think most Dems would not have the same opinion as you if Bush had a blowjob with a mistress in private,


    Then you don't know most dems here in the states.

    ReplyDelete
  90. British Gary said...

    A greater immoral act does not excuse a lesser.


    Once again we're back to defining morality.

    Your morality is not everyones morality.

    If you base your morality on Judeo-Christian values, then thats your morality.

    Not everyone does, and therefore, calling a BJ, even if it is "adulterous" by your standards.

    ReplyDelete
  91. Mike,

    You are morally corrupt.
    You are morally worthless.
    You are misanthropic.
    You are a cheater.

    You are a bastard from Buffalo, whose opinions don't count for anything...SO SHUT YOUR MOUTH ALREADY, YA HEAR PUSSY BOY!

    I thought maybe you were a deadbeat dad too, but I can see that no woman would want you... EVER!

    ReplyDelete
  92. Gary we have not the problem with the actions of people if they are consistant, and Bill never played the morality card like the hypocrites in the GOP had done. I for one think the warning by Jesus was as much about not being a hypocrite, a word HE used many times, NOT the act of sin, which he understood we as humans would time to time fall prey to. It was not the sin but the hypocritical reaction of others guilty of the same that drew his Anger.

    ReplyDelete
  93. And I might point out also BG, that what modern Christians call adultery, was referred to in earlier times in the very bible from which they preach, as "having concubines".

    Men of power in the Bible often had numerous "concubines", and enjoyed sexual affairs on a scale that would humble John Holmes.

    As I keep saying, attributing your version of morality to others is a losing battle. Morality is subjective, which is why peoples sexual affairs, as long as they are with adults, should be left to the involved parties.

    ReplyDelete
  94. And remember, the Christian new testament also condemns "GOSSIP".

    ReplyDelete
  95. Clif said;

    It was not the sin but the hypocritical reaction of others guilty of the same that drew his Anger.


    Exactly!

    When the self righteous townsfolk brought a women caught in the act of adultery to Jesus for ritual stoning, he instead put the attention BACK on them.

    He who is without sin, let him cast the first stone was the terse reply, and their guilt caused them all to shrink away in utter shame.

    Christ was not preoccupied with sexual transgression. In fact, he practically ignored it.

    Instead he focused on on what he called, the "weighter matters of the law", like justice, mercy and faith.

    ReplyDelete
  96. "Of course, when Bush sees that Adams Apple on her, he might freak out, but still."
    Too funny, I've missed your humour Worf, great comment!

    "morality when it comes to sexuality, is subjective....Your "morals" are clearly based on typical judeo-christian morality, and thats fine."
    Worf, I like to think my morality is based on my culture and the codes of conduct I've signed at work. The same codes of conduct my staff have signed and I'm expected to enforce as part of my job. I imagine it's pretty much what Bill would have signed too. As for subjectiveness, I agree, which is exactly why we have codes of conduct: to define an acceptable standard of behaviour at work, a line you just don't cross and is applicable to all. Something that represents professional behaviour and is fair to all.

    Clif, it's not about fitting others into my world view but holding the same standards to those who set the standards for me.
    Bill, before his altercation, would NOT have said it's OK for a President to have a blowjob in the WH. He is very intelligent and would have known that was wrong.

    Bill DID commit a sin because he would have been subject to a code of conduct expected of staff in the WH. He was not above the law any more than Bush currently thinks he is.

    My arguement is more than a mere religious morality, as an atheist I'm arguing from a legal and cultural moral view point.

    ReplyDelete
  97. BG said;
    Worf, I like to think my morality is based on my culture and the codes of conduct I've signed at work.


    Yes, but like I said, we're talking about the White House, not Walmart.

    Clinton didn't sign anything that said he couldn't be fondled by an intern, and I might point out that Monica admitted she "pushed herself" on him.

    If someone with tits that big wanted to polish my schlong, I'd have a hard time saying no too.

    We're just going to have to agree to disagree on this one BG.

    I see where you're coming from, and if you are an atheist as you claim, then fine, but using words like "SIN" shows clearly your Judeo\Christian upbringing.

    We all are influenced by Judeo-Christian values, and it shows in all of our communications.

    But on this one I have to disagree with you.

    What Clinton did in the White House, was his job. He arrived before Bush is done dreaming about waterboarding John Kerry, and he leaves when Bush is already opening a beer and kicking Barney in the ass.

    Clinton did his job.

    The 15 minutes he took out of it to let Monica hob his nob, is irrelevant, insiginificant, and only matters because people want it to matter.

    ReplyDelete
  98. "As I keep saying, attributing your version of morality to others is a losing battle."
    Worf, I'm not moralising or lording it over anyone. I'm stating there is an AGREED level of morality in society that is defined by codes of conduct while at work. Breach the code of conduct and you've done something immoral. My jugdement is irrelevant and unemotional in this regard, it's part of an agreed, written framework of our culture.

    I agree, people's sexual affairs should and MUST be left to the involved parties but where I differ is that I qualify that statement: only when that behaviour occurs at HOME.

    ReplyDelete
  99. BG said;

    Bill, before his altercation, would NOT have said it's OK for a President to have a blowjob in the WH. He is very intelligent and would have known that was wrong.

    Gary YOU do not KNOW this, he might not have admitted it publically, but by his actions he thought it was OK for Him to do it, so I have to think you do not know as much as you claim.

    Because it is the actions NOT the words which reveal what we really think.

    ReplyDelete
  100. "If someone with tits that big wanted to polish my schlong, I'd have a hard time saying no too."
    LOL LOL!

    But that doesn't make it right does it?

    The 'sin' word came from Clif, check his post.

    "The 15 minutes he took out of it to let Monica hob his nob, is irrelevant, insiginificant, and only matters because people want it to matter."
    No, it matters because as a civilised society we must have agreed acceptable standards of behaviour while at work. Otherwise let anarchy rule and you'll be searching all over the site for half the team who are missing from the meeting because they are showing Ann from the typing pool, the meaning of a 'spit roast' in the canteen.

    ReplyDelete
  101. BG said:

    Bill DID commit a sin because he would have been subject to a code of conduct expected of staff in the WH.

    No son he copuld not be charge with any violations of the LAW because he was not impeached, and if the Hypoicritical sycophants in the House thought for a minute they could have charged Bill with a code which does NOT applty to HIM they would have.

    Bill was NOT staff, think about it for a minute, and you will understand it, staff serves at the pleasure of the president, and he IS the president, he serves at the pleasure of the vote of the citizens based on the constitution.

    ReplyDelete
  102. BG said;

    I'm stating there is an AGREED level of morality in society that is defined by codes of conduct while at work.

    No Gary there IS NOT, as all the different standards all over the world attest to.

    ReplyDelete
  103. I understand also Gary that the publics perception of morality is different than their "mores".

    The US public has been shaped over the last 2 centuries by Judeo\Christian values.

    Modern Judeo\Christian values I might add.

    And therefore, to subject Judeo\Christian morality, to a Federal office, to me is dangerous, and wrong. And it is a slippery slope.

    JFK had sex with many women in the White House. They even had orgies.

    But today he is still one of the most well loved, and well respected Presidents in US history.

    Clintons blow job will mean something, as long as we LET IT mean something.

    ReplyDelete
  104. Clif, of course I don't 'know' those statements, I'm making an educated guess based on our cultures. I don't even know if the President of the United States of America actually signs a code of conduct.
    I do think, reasonably, that Bill would not have thought it was OK to behave like that but did so in a moment of weakness. Still doesn't excuse him though.

    ReplyDelete
  105. And btw BG. Personally, I see adultery as a sin, and wrong, based on my own Judeo\Christian morality.

    I also see the distinction between that, and the reality of the role of a world leader, and the two aren't even in the same ballpark.

    Leave the personal sins to the sinner, and judge leaders on how they LEAD.

    Not how they "knead".

    :D

    ReplyDelete
  106. "No Gary there IS NOT, as all the different standards all over the world attest to."

    So in America you don't have codes of conduct while at work? Is this what you're saying? Because a code of conduct is an AGREED standard of behaviour while at WORK developed from the culture of that particular country.

    ReplyDelete
  107. Anyway its good to see you here BG.

    I missed you now that I am permanently banned from ThinkProgess.

    I always enjoy our discussions.

    ReplyDelete
  108. BG said;

    So in America you don't have codes of conduct while at work?

    Yes. And most people break them every day without getting fired.

    ReplyDelete
  109. And besides, like I said. This is the White House, not Walmart.

    ReplyDelete
  110. "Bill was NOT staff, think about it for a minute, and you will understand it, staff serves at the pleasure of the president, and he IS the president, he serves at the pleasure of the vote of the citizens based on the constitution."
    And Bill was not above the law - the same laws that I know are in America via codes of conduct for everyone else. Or do you think the President can behave however he likes? One rule for us, another for a President? I disagree with you.

    ReplyDelete
  111. I don't think they handed Clinton a memo that said, no oogling the secretaries, no smoking in mural room, and no feet on Roosevelts desk.

    ReplyDelete
  112. Gary you are PROJECTING your values. And it is wrong,
    It is the problem we have with most reichwingnut christians, they project THEIR view of the world and DEMAND every body toe their lines. Jesus denied them THAT RIGHT. He demanded people fix their OWN problems NOT others. The log in the eye is ONE example, and the don't throwe stones is another. You are sublimilally accepting their base assumption, that we all have to accept somebodies elses version of MORALITY. That is Just not the case, and I REJECT it out of hand. I must come to grips with MY own moral code, and I believe lying to get us into a war is MUCH more immoral than any BLOWJOB ever was or ever will be.

    ReplyDelete
  113. BG said;

    staff serves at the pleasure of the president

    Then I'd say Monica "served" at his "pleasure" quite well, wouldn't you?

    :D

    ReplyDelete
  114. Clif said;

    The log in the eye is ONE example,

    Or the spoooge in the eye.

    :D

    ReplyDelete
  115. For those of you who claim to be Christians here, the Ten Commandments were not the "Ten Suggestions."

    Notwithstanding any religious proscriptions, Worf says that no laws were broken. That may be, but when you are a defendant in a civil suit, you must answer questions truthfully in depositions.

    Clinton CHOSE to lie. No one made him lie. He chose to. Why? He answered that in his own book: because he thought he could. Well, he was wrong. He didn't count on that stained blue dress with his DNA on it.

    Being president does not give rise to immunity from a civil action, nor does it give the president the right to commit sexual harrassement and immunize himself from legal process.

    (That said, a sitting president cannot be indicted, but this was a matter of civil law, not criminal law. [That's why Nixon was named as an unindicted co-conspirator in the Watergate matter.])

    ReplyDelete
  116. Anyway its good to see you here BG.

    yeah, it's good to be back. I always enjoy debating topics with you, Clif and Mike, none of you make our disagreements personal. I'm still banned from TP but I have a new computer now - the coal-powered, wardrobe sized beast gave up the ghost, so I can post on TP again. I won't however because I'm still huffy about it.

    "And btw BG. Personally, I see adultery as a sin, and wrong, based on my own Judeo\Christian morality."
    Me too, we can't avoid Judeo/Christian morality as it's an integral part of our cultures.

    I know people break rules and get away with it too, I think they are just as hypocritical as the rethugs when they do. Getting away with a breach of conduct is not the same as not breaching the conduct.

    ReplyDelete
  117. "clif said...

    No son he copuld not be charge with any violations of the LAW because he was not impeached..."

    Once again, you and Mike are truly the Axis of Stupid. Clinton WAS impeached. Get it through your thick head.

    ReplyDelete
  118. BG said;

    And Bill was not above the law - the same laws that I know are in America via codes of conduct for everyone else. Or do you think the President can behave however he likes? One rule for us, another for a President? I disagree with you.

    Yes Bill was above the law, OUR constitution places him there, and ONLY impeachment can bring him BACK. with out it he can NOT be prosecuted. I know this is a legal statement, but it is the fact that you can NOT get arround, nor could the repugs in 1998.

    Unless he was impeached and removed from office he was not found guilty.

    You are projecting your personal beliefs into this situation just as the reichwingnuts did in 1997-1998, and continue to do today. If I can demand you live by MY moral code, I have upsurped the role Chrisy in forming your spiritual being, I have denied you the right to accept or reject what you believe and replaced it with MY views. This is indoctrination which I do not believe is correct for any personal journey. You must follow the law, but in matters which are purely MORAL in aspects, it is UP to yopu to decide, I have NO right to judge you for what you believe, just if you break the law.

    And Bill broke NO laws the US senate said so, much to the dismay of FOOLES like Tiny..

    ReplyDelete
  119. Clif"You are sublimilally accepting their base assumption, that we all have to accept somebodies elses version of MORALITY."
    No I'm not because I voluntarily signed the code of conduct while at work. And we need a code of conduct if we are to be civilised and professional. There is nothing in the code of conduct that I personally disagree with becuse it sets a sensible red line according to British culture. You'll have your own codes for your own culture. You were in the Army, I've never been in the Army but I bet they have codes of conduct too. So you must have signed them right? If you did, are you arguing it's OK to sign a contract in honour and then break it because you're feeling frisky today? Or because you think the code of conduct doesn't apply to you because part of it comes from other people's definitions of morality?

    ReplyDelete
  120. CFY TT, clinton was NOT convicted and thus NOT GUILTY BY order of the US SENATE.

    THUS in the eyes of the UNITED STATES GOVERNATE as DIRECTED BY the SENATE Bill Clinton is NOT GUILTY.

    RIGHT TINY asswipe.

    ReplyDelete
  121. Bill Clinton was impeached by a bunch of assclowns who NOW protect child predators.

    ReplyDelete
  122. Then I'd say Monica "served" at his "pleasure" quite well, wouldn't you?

    LOL but given what he's been through for it, if I were him I'd be asking for my money back.

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  123. This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

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  124. Bill Clinton gets Blowjobs from grown women,

    repugs hate that but protect child predators.

    REAL moral bunch of HYPOCRITES you got there son.

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  125. It's bad for Bill to get a BLOWJOB from a grown woman, but the proitect a man who gets them from a child?

    ReplyDelete
  126. Clif, you're a prick!

    ReplyDelete
  127. Clinton "paid" for sex from Monica!

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  128. instead I helped to change a policy that really served no purpose.

    A code of conduct regarding sex at work DOES serve a purpose. I know some pretty frisky people at work and if they thought they could behave like Bill did, they would. Wearing different clothes doesn't stop you doing your job.

    If Bill could type, answer the phone and jot notes while he's getting a blow job then I'll retract the above post. I don't KNOW, but I bet he wasn't working at the time!

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  129. Cliton "paid" to get laid

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  130. Must suck to be a stupid repug who clings to their glory of a failed bid to throw Bill out of office, because their IDIOT is SO incompetent, that the world laughs at him, and Kim Jong Il just thumbs his nose at him. and Georgie has to ask the UN to do something because he BROKE the military and has it bound up in a fiasco he has NO clue about, so DADDY send in Jimmy Baker to save the DAYT again, Bush must hate the fact that at 60 his dad is still trying to clean up HIS messes.

    ReplyDelete
  131. I am trying to make a point here, and I hope its not lost.

    The point is simple.

    Jesus came because people were letting the letter of the law overtake the spirit of the law.

    They were more concerned with focusing on the personal matters of others, that had nothing to do with them, then they were about the important matters, which require attention every day.

    In his words, they "strained at a gnat, and swallowed a camel".

    By trying to even classify Clintons actions, we are focusing on something that matters neither one jot, nor the tinest tittle.

    We would do well to dismiss this 15 minutes of an 8 year Presidency, and turn all of our attention to the mass murder being committed in our own names right now, this very moment, by a man who is as evil and corrupt a man who has ever occupied the Oval Office.

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  132. Monica's the gnat.

    Bush is the camel.

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  133. Clif, you said he was not impeached, but he was. Are you suffering from dementia?

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  134. I'll bet Dead EYE wishes he had gone with Dan Quayle after all and ignored the Idiot from Texas, No not you Tiny the other idiot from Texas

    ReplyDelete
  135. Oh God. Here we go again.

    TT.

    Everyone knows the House Impeached Clinton.

    Ok lamebrain?

    Can we go back to current events now?

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  136. Worf,
    No woman in her right mind would bed down with you. You son of a bitch, all you do is pull your dick all night long

    ReplyDelete
  137. "WORFEUS said...
    Oh God. Here we go again.

    TT.

    Everyone knows the House Impeached Clinton"

    Everyone except Mike and Clif.

    ReplyDelete
  138. Once more,

    Monica's the gnat.

    Bush is the camel.

    ReplyDelete
  139. oh man Clif, we have to disagree again because I think that the leader of a country MUST never be above the law! Why? See Bush.

    I'm not projecting my personal beliefs, why? Because the code of conduct was not written by ME! It was written according to the values of a SOCIETY. A code of conduct comes from cultural values and as much as I like or dislike it, from religious values. Not me. Not personal. No projection.

    Just one rule for all in fairness. Do you think it's right that the President is above the law?

    ReplyDelete
  140. And if MY Dad had to pull my ass out of the mess I created as pResident, it would SUCK> BIG TIME, after all what is gonna be Bush's legacy(after worst president ever) his daddy knew enough people to clean up another of the idiots messes? Even the ones he created as pResient?

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  141. Just like fat-jag Mike, all you guy's do is just spew your own bile.

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  142. Gary READ the US constitution, and you will see that Bush can not be prosectuted unless he is IMPEACHED and CONVICTED by the senate, thus he IS abovew the law as long as this is NOT accomplished, after 2001 they repugs knew they HAD NO case, and NEVER tried, because thery knew they would LOSE AGAIN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    ReplyDelete
  143. "We would do well to dismiss this 15 minutes of an 8 year Presidency, and turn all of our attention to the mass murder being committed in our own names right now, this very moment, by a man who is as evil and corrupt a man who has ever occupied the Oval Office."

    I agree but qualified by the following: as long as Bill's immoral behaviour is acknowledged as immoral for what it was and not defended.

    Regarding Bush's version of morality, I hate to say it but Bill's behaviour is a tiny prick by comparison.

    ReplyDelete
  144. "clif said...
    Gary READ the US constitution, and you will see that Bush can not be prosectuted unless he is IMPEACHED and CONVICTED by the senate, thus he IS abovew the law as long as this is NOT accomplished, after 2001 they repugs knew they HAD NO case, and NEVER tried, because thery knew they would LOSE AGAIN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    1:07 PM"

    It's not so simple Clif. The Cheif Executive is partially immune from criminal prosecution, but not immune from civil action or congressional action (such as impeachment or removal).

    ReplyDelete
  145. British Gary you miss the BOAT again Not all people see it as IMMORAL if Hillary had NO problem with it, and she made peace with it YEARS ago, only repug sycophants want to drag it foward, so they have SOMETHING to ward off the truths of protercting a child predator, and possibly TWO.

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  146. BG said;

    I agree but qualified by the following: as long as Bill's immoral behaviour is acknowledged as immoral for what it was and not defended.

    Sure. By YOUR morality.

    Not mine.

    ReplyDelete
  147. "Gary READ the US constitution"

    Actually I'd like to. Do you know if there's a copy on the internet. Plese don't tell me I have to pay $400 for a copy from some antiquated library?

    Regarding your President being above the law until he's caught.....there's no wonder the world's in such a bloody mess.

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  148. BG (who is starting to sound an awful lot like Johnny Moo Moo said)


    Do you think it's right that the President is above the law?

    Clinton didn't BREAK the law since the US, thank God, has no laws against blow jobs (except in some of our more inbred counties), so the question is moot.

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  149. Clif, if it was not immoral, admittedly a subjective standard, why was Clinton clutching a Bible in the aftermath of of the scandal, a book in which it is commanded that "Thou shalt not commit adultery"?

    Either he believed what he held out as the word of God, or he didn't.

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  150. Tiny conscienceinTexan(who supports those who protect child predators) said:

    why was Clinton clutching a Bible in the aftermath of of the scandal,

    I do not know numbnuts...why are you so stupid, I do not know that either.

    ReplyDelete
  151. "Sure. By YOUR morality. Not mine."
    No, by the moral standards set down in law according to codes of conduct while at work - the same codes I and most others at work have to live by (strippers/certain 'massage' parlours etc excluded).

    It's NOT my morality - it's what is accepted by a civilisation as being acceptable while at WORK.

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  152. BG. Here is a link to ALL of our Federal documents FOLLOW ME.

    Hands across the water and all that.

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  153. I for one do not believe the BIBLE is the exact "word of GOD" as it has been EDITTED too many times, was the first edit the word or did humans have to edit it to get it right?

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  154. Clif "Not all people see it as IMMORAL"

    I know, yet these people probably sign codes of conduct themselves. Hypocrites. Even worse, partisan political hypocrites.

    ReplyDelete
  155. "WORFEUS said...
    BG (who is starting to sound an awful lot like Johnny Moo Moo said)


    Do you think it's right that the President is above the law?

    Clinton didn't BREAK the law since the US, thank God, has no laws against blow jobs (except in some of our more inbred counties), so the question is moot.

    1:19 PM"

    He may not have broken a criminal law, but he is subject to civil action for workplace harrassement, just like the rest of us.

    Paul Jones tried to assert her rights in that regard, and feminists like Gloria Steinhem denounced her for asserting the very rights they fought for. How very comical.

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  156. This name describes ALL dummicrats

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  157. British Gary said...
    "Sure. By YOUR morality. Not mine."
    No, by the moral standards set down in law according to codes of conduct while at work


    Whose WORK?

    You mean there is some universal code of conduct of every place of business in England?

    Here in the "Free" Colonies, we embrace a much broader workplace environment, where corporate officers are free to define their own codes of conduct when it comes to consenual matters.

    ReplyDelete
  158. Many businesses discourage workplace relationships. Others fire for them, and yet others encourage them.

    It all depends on the environment.

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  159. For example, if you ever wander across the pond, and stop in the great state of Nevada, you will find a legal and licensed, tax paying all American business, that ENCOURAGES blow jobs in the workplace.

    That business is called the Mustang Ranch, and they are one of the states most successful firms.

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  160. Looks like some repugs are getting MAD, sorry for your luck to hitch you little wagon to the party of corrupt child predators.

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  161. And the party who actually has leaders who call christofacsists NUTS, when they are not around.

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  162. BG said;

    He may not have broken a criminal law, but he is subject to civil action for workplace harrassement, just like the rest of us

    Ok, you're losing me now buddy, cause that is just an out and out decietful thing to say.

    Calling a HORNY woman, climbing on a HORNY man, and PERFORMING ORAL SEX ON HIM, "sexual harrassment" makes me think you are not the British Gary I know.

    Because that statement is beneath him.

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  163. Thats why Las Vegas is SIN CITY, asshole. It's where all the perverts are!

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  164. Women were, and still are attracted to Bill Clinton.

    That drives republicans crazy.

    Why it appears to bother you I don't know, but I am starting to think you are not who you say you are.

    Clif.

    I smell a moo moo.

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  165. The party who has TWO convicted felons. The same time they were covering up for a child predator ot TWO.

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  166. Worf, "Clinton didn't BREAK the law since the US, thank God, has no laws against blow jobs (except in some of our more inbred counties), so the question is moot."

    No it's not, the question is extremely important as I'd rather have the most powerful man in the world under the rule of law for transparent reasons. So you're saying it's a good thing blowjobs aren't aginst the law while at work for a president, but I and everyone I work with it is? Becuase that's reality! Or do you think anyone should be able to have a blowjob while at work? Have you ever had to manage a large team of people?

    I sound like the cow? Cheers Worf, compare me to a troll.....*sniff* no, I'm alright, I'm not that upset *wiping away tear*

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  167. Hollywood and Vegas are the 2 sinful and filthiest cities in the world, and anyone who assigns himself to live there are morally corrupt people, and raise their families the same perverted way.

    ReplyDelete
  168. Cliff said

    "You are sublimilally accepting their base assumption, that we all have to accept somebodies elses version of MORALITY. That is Just not the case, and I REJECT it out of hand."


    OUTSTANDING CLIFF......!!!!!

    Finally my efforts are paying off.

    Once again....

    There are billions of people who each possess their own version of how they feel the trains should run on time.

    Attempting to finding a sensible solution or acceptable scenario for billions of different meatheads, in an attempt to keep mankind content, is virtually impossible and unrealistic.

    The answer is........there is no answer....PERIOD.

    Thus, sometimes I laugh as I witness individuals seeking the perfect solution...... I know deep in my heart one can never.... and I mean never, be found.

    Therefore, whats our purpose in life when we are simply running in circles seeking an ultimate answer that doesnt exist?

    ANYONE?

    There will always be war.....period!

    Nevertheless, sexual harrasment infuriates me. However a part of me says Clintons escapades are between himself and his wife only.

    Had he grabbed the girl forcefully, then thats our business.

    Location is irrelevant.

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  169. dippy said...

    Thats why Las Vegas is SIN CITY, asshole. It's where all the perverts are!

    No son, the repugs had some in congress too, remember FOLEY?

    ReplyDelete
  170. Johnny InCognito said...

    No it's not, the question is extremely important as I'd rather have the most powerful man in the world under the rule of law for transparent reasons.

    So you're saying it's a good thing blowjobs aren't aginst the law while at work for a president, but I and everyone I work with it is?


    What the fuck are you talking about?

    No I mean seriously, what the fuck are you talking about?

    I don't know where you live Mr Slappy Cornwallace, but here in the free states, it is not "against the law" to perform oral sex at work.

    We have no laws saying that if two people slip into the janitors closet for a quicky, that the MORAL POLICE will haul them off to jail.

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  171. Worf,"Whose WORK?"

    I work for a large British/American company who set their own policies. I'm Head of Department for a science laboratory and I have 33 staff.

    They are not my policies but I happen to agree with them, blowjobs at WORK are immoral and unprofessional.

    "BG said;He may not have broken a criminal law, but he is subject to civil action for workplace harrassement, just like the rest of us"
    Worf, I did not type that, it is NOT my comment.

    ReplyDelete
  172. Foley is a pervert too, an example of the Hollywood/Vegas lifestyle

    ReplyDelete
  173. You sure you're not time travelling back from the 16th century or something?

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  174. Do you guys like, put people in the stocks and throw shit at them still?

    ReplyDelete
  175. It's against the law to preform oral sex at work you goddamned stupid jagoff piece of shit

    ReplyDelete
  176. Our country says NO to fucking assholes like WORF

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  177. BG said;

    They are not my policies but I happen to agree with them, blowjobs at WORK are immoral and unprofessional.

    Unprofessional, perhaps, depending on your profession.

    Immoral is clearly subjective, and your fervor in clinging to it, and demanding that I adopt your clearly Judeo-Christian morals is quite telling indeed.

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  178. Hey Clippy! I thought you spilled a Molson on you computer or something?

    Good to know your alive.

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  179. Sorry son, Foley is JUST the lated HYPOCRITICAL repug to be outed for what he really is, somebody who says ONE thing, but does another, the repug party mantra if the last 25 years is any guide.

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  180. Obviously Worf never held a job, so he doesn't know...lazy fucker

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  181. Clif/Worf, thanks for the links

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  182. In fact, I think I'll ask the plant watering lady to come in here and blow me right now.

    Just out of spite.

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  183. BG

    Im impressed with your valid points and staunch attitude.

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  184. I'm still alive and kicking...LOL

    ReplyDelete
  185. Johnny moo moo said...
    BG

    Im impressed with your valid points and staunch attitude.


    We always knew you were a narcissist.

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  186. Worf"Immoral is clearly subjective, and your fervor in clinging to it, and demanding that I adopt your clearly Judeo-Christian morals is quite telling indeed."

    Yep, morality is subjective hence the code of conduct so there is no subjectivity while at WORK.
    I'm not religious, I'm arguing from more perspectives than that and the President is not a stripper. BTW, I have nothing against strippers etc. enjoying/giving blowjobs at WORK. I should have clarified that earlier, I apologise. But it's different for a President because he is expected to be professional by a different set of moral standards. And Bill broke them.

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  187. BG

    Cetainly you agree we have our own version of prayer?

    One does not need illusion to propell silent HOPE.

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  188. It's hard enough for women to land high-powered positions in the first place, then you have ass-wipes like Worf condoning sex in the workplace...Women in the workplace deserve respect from men, and not to be called "HONEY" or "SWEETIE".
    Obviously Worf knows nothing of the workplace or women...what a wasted life you are asshole.

    ReplyDelete
  189. Johnny your as tired as Tiny in your sycophantry, and almost as dumb.

    ReplyDelete
  190. No respecting company would condone immoral behavior in the workplace, unless it's the states of California or Nevada

    ReplyDelete
  191. Clippy said

    "Women in the workplace deserve respect from men, and not to be called "HONEY" or "SWEETIE"."

    100% AGREED!

    Although, same applies to men too.

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  192. Oh nooooooooooo, Cliff. Not your vision of a lobotomized world that lacks human emotion or feeling.

    Your contradicting yourself Captain?

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  193. Moo"BG Im impressed with your valid points and staunch attitude."

    thankyou, but I think a staunch attitude is only good just as long as I listen to other people's arguements and am willing to adopt them if they are reasoned beyond my own. Clif changed my mind some months ago regarding freedom of speech. I listen to people who argue reasonably and don't make personal attacks. I wish you would make fewer personal attacks on people in here, after all, debate is about learning/teaching, not playground mentality don't you agree?

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  194. Johnny moo moo said...
    Clippy said

    "Women in the workplace deserve respect from men, and not to be called "HONEY" or "SWEETIE"."

    100% AGREED!

    Although, same applies to men too.



    Agreed, respect is a two-way street

    ReplyDelete
  195. Cliff

    Your not going to debate me on your wacky, infinite hope, analogy again are you.

    I crushed you the last time.

    ReplyDelete
  196. WORFEUS said...
    Holy crap. I am just seeing this number now that apparently the Iraqi's released, that 655,000 Iraqi's have been killed due to our "liberation".

    That's over HALF A MILLION PEOPLE.

    Holy mother of God.



    It's sad to read this, but unfortunately that's what war is about in bringing freedom to the world, and ending world terrorism.

    ReplyDelete
  197. Cool BG

    TT posted an EXCELLENT analogy many months ago simiiiar to your 2:00 pm post.

    I will not hate repubs coz someone says I should......Im very impressed with the civilty of my associates.

    ReplyDelete